Hmm when will mages get some lovin

[WEplayer]

lol im a mage on WE and im geting crit hits on my with my tinkered armor 130+ This one char crit me for 196 through tinkered armor. lol thats kinda bs mages have like no chance against high lvl melees with max skills. Melees have wards/aegis shield/ plus max Magic D if they spec and it and stuff but what do mages have ot make it equal? weeping weapon? They lose hp if we hit them. They can resist/dodge but what can we do against melees? nothing we cant dodge them we cant evade them. We can only shot wars and hope they hit? I think turbine so do somehting about making it more equal.

Another thing is when im fighting a mage i get hit by things that look like a mile away on my screen and sometimes on the other persons screen to. Why is this happening? This makes me lose some matchs against people and i dont get a fair fight. Why cant turbine do something about this to? is it lag? i dunno. Plus when i might some lower lvl mages like lvl 100- they hit harder then me sometimes and im 126+ with 400+ war skill.

[Frank The Knife]

~Flame for lack of skill, armor and internet connection~

- So I guess you didnt get the memo you can make a melee useless in one spell?

[Chubasco]

Good luck getting off a Blood Loather before the weapon is put away!!

[Frank The Knife]

There you go....

When the melee is doing the hide my weapon dance they sure don't do a great job of attacking.

I can't wait for this months melee nerf. I guess since they got a lot of bad press from advertiseing last months melee nerf this months nerf is gonna go stealth.

[Hubbell]

The mage can't do anything while he's casting blood loather, don't make asinine statements in such a way that it makes your wonderful little walking tank class look like its useless. Melees are the most powerful PVP class in what really matters, group fights.

[Ivanhoe]

mages r the most powerfull class for pvp. <-----thats a period

[Virindi Clown]

You put a few mages against a few melees, and I think the mages would tear the melees a new one. Melees just happen to be the only class who can continue a chase. Therefore, they finish more people off, and everyone says they are better.

And what exactly is that about melees hitting too hard because they can do 130+ 10% of the time on only full power hits? Last time I checked wars average a good deal more than that. It isn't terribly hard to drag a melee into yourself and get a shot on them or time your movements right so that you catch them with a war right when they try to turn and dodge it. You just have to know what you are doing against them.

I'd have trouble fighting a melee on a mage if I glued myself to the ground, and so would the melee. Nothing wrong with moving around. Everyone has to do it to fight, or it wouldn't be a fight.

[dangerousimage]

Mages don't need loving. They are already the best in PK.

[WEplayer]

have u ever played a mage? and faught agaianst a maxed strength/sword/magic d sword toon? u have no chance against them

[Hubbell]

No class needs any more love. They are as closely balanced as can be without effing it up.

[sylphia]

WEplayer, I am not even really good at PK. I own melees constantly in 1v1 fights, even before I could BL the weeping weapons. Stamina to Health One is quite a powerful tool. Generally the only meles that can really hurt me are the ones that can land a vuln AND an imp on me first. And that assumes I dont just gem it right back off. If they are using a rending weapon, it doesnt hurt anywhere near as much asa WW--and they can be BL-ed too. My war spells ignore their armor completely, without any outside aid frm casting implements. If I am using a rending wand, I have the equivalent of a lvl 6 vuln that cant be dispelled--and THEY cant BL MY wand--well they CAN but it doesnt DO anything :-P

BUt I am far more likely to whip out my WW and vuln them then 1 or 2 shot them with it. The two best melees for killing mages are Sword (high damage) and UA (fast attack and LOTS of crits). I own both of them, and I suck. Sorry, but mages DO have a distinct advantage over melees. Gangfights--too many variables to say one class is universally better than the others.

Now I WOULD like to see some improvements to mages in the areas of faster buffing, group buffing, and some better graphics to go with the spells themselves. Each spell shuld be unique and--well--pretty. A bludge vuln looks just like an imp, which is silly to me. I would love to see THAT updated. BUt I really dont need MORE damage in my arsenal to effectively slaughter a melee in PvP.

[dedhed]

i totally suck at pk , and i can take out maxed sword/ua chars (battle mage temp). sounds to me you just need practice on timing, dodging, etc

[Frank The Knife]

Being one of those sword guys...........

Ever try to kill a max spec war/resist mage who has 400+ health and can fastcast faster than a fullpower sword swing?


Those guys are near impossible to kill with a solo melee.

[Hubbell]

As they should be. Melees = Group Fighters. Mages = Solo Fighters. Archers = A balance between the two. Melees or Mages excel in what they are balanced to doing, but with enough skill a melee can be very very good in 1on1, and vice versa for a mage.

[Frank The Knife]

Can you show me where its written that a melee is not a solo character? In Pk or PvM?

[Virindi Clown]

It's not written. It's implied by Turbine every patch.

You can do a lot to a temp to make a melee a decent solo char, but it doesn't compare to how any old mage dominates small fighting and still plays a huge role in large fights.

[Ivanhoe]

"As they should be. Melees = Group Fighters. Mages = Solo Fighters. Archers = A balance between the two."


Uhmm........ ??

What are you talking about?

melees r group fighters?
mages r solo???
archers r inbetween???????

WTF????

(I don't agree with that.)

[WEplayer]

Ok obviously if people are complaining about melees there not group fighters. And u can be the best damn pk on the game and fight a max sterngth max magic D max sword char u will die.
They not only have max skills but have wards/magic D shield. What do mages have? NOTHING but a weeping wand. Dont say mages got the stam to health spell cuz melees got potions and healing kits. What is the point of tinkered armor in pk? I was fighting today and i was geting hit 50+ through tinekred armor vs a sword toon. He would crit me for 130+. I dont get it seriously lmao

[sylphia]

Mages also have potions and healing kits. We also have higher TRAINED magic than most melees can get SPECED defense. I have yet to have a problem landing spells on a non-mage toon, even ones significantly higher than me. I dont have melee trained, and I get hit by EVERY swing of a melee several levels LOWER than me. The high-end melees simply dont do enough damage to me to make it worth worrying over. I wear base AL 400+ armor, plus banes and banes on my ashy undies. If they use a rending wpn to get past some of that, I BL it, pretty much negating most of its benefit. If they use a WW, I can now BL that, too. There are 3 melees in my clan that are very good. out of all of them, only one has managed to beat me, and not only was it a "next shot kills" scenario for both of us, HE knows he only won because we were lagging horribly, and I was stuck, unable to cast or move.

And once again, I SUCK at PK :) I honestly feel sorry for melees when they fight mages, cos the advantage is far in favor of the mage. Dont get me wrong; GOOD PKs can kill a mage with a melee, but it isnt easy by any means. Perhaps the fellow that mowed you down is one of them. Or perhaps you suck even more than I do at PK :D

[WEplayer]

lol i pk every day and if u think about it u shouldn't feel bad for melees for everything they got. And yes we have healing and potions but when if we get caught casting. It takes to long to get out of attack mode and drink a potion. And for BLing a weapon they cry and complain then wait till it goes away and attack again. and No i dont suck i kill most mages on WE and most archers but when it comes to melees im geting hit hard.

[sylphia]

Well for that matter, what happens to a melee that gets stuck in the middle of an attack when THEY need to drink a potion? :) The point is potions and healing dont offer either side an advantage, really, since all players have access. Plus mages have lvl 7 self heals, without having to switch to a want to use them (since we are already wearing one! :D ).

I have never had a melee complain about being loathered by me; they are too busy dodging war spells and runing around me in circles for trivialities such as that --now AFTER the fight they complain :) And if they can wait it out for the loather to wear off, then something is wrong, cos they should be dead by then :-P And if for some reason they live long enough, I can BL it again when they come back at me; I wont run out of BL :)

[Virindi Clown]

Go look at maxed war and then look at maxed magic d. If you aren't done there, then look at the average damage a war does, even with the reduction from wards and an aegis, as compared to the 10% chance of being hit for 130+ on full power only. End of discussion.

[Lavigne]

WEPlayer...

you have made some of the most unintelligent statements i've heard in a long time. waht you say makes absolutely no sense at all.

a mage can continuously blast for 130+, shoot i get hit for no less than 160. i hit for no mroe than 90 on a DANG good crit. and tahts against an equal level mage. come on, man. you can RELY on 160 damage per hit. we have to PRAY TO GOD to do half that? please use your head before you post something so lacking in intelligence.

[WEplayer]

ok obviously u have not been reading my posts i have been saying high lvls 126+ abnd obviously by reading ur sig ur not 126+ which means u dont know how much melees are geting hit for with having max magic D and other skills so plz just shut up if u dont know what im talking about.

[Lavigne]

practice what you preach. damage does not change that much. i raid with 126+s, i fight every level from 60-180 it doesn't matter to me. I know damages. and what you say holds no merit. go cry somewhere else, *whaaaa he hit me hard* awww poor guy. go hug a tusker, or some ****

[WEplayer]

are u stupid? i dont pay money to get pissed off. and yes if u have a high magic D it will change quite a bid and along witht eh wards they have on you'll hit for 160 crit if that and like 100 each time if that. Ive been pking for 3 years i know what im talking about and just because ur from DT u think u know a lot about pk? Let me tell u something most dters are kinda pansys that suck 1 on 1. How many times do u actually 1 on 1 on DT? probley never ur probley some little n00b that ganks with there n00b friends that sucks 1 on 1.

[Frank The Knife]

/\ When you dont have facts or the the ability to post in a mature manner name calling always works.

[smaweet]

With a knorr helm I don't even get hit for 196, learn to bane, it's your friend, learn to dodge, it helps.

[Preka]

"They not only have max skills but have wards/magic D shield. What do mages have? NOTHING but a weeping wand."

What do mages have?

Banes, jackass.

[sylphia]

Point blank, the only mages that complain non-mages are hard to kill are the ones that suck at PK.

I have PKed for FOUR years and I admit to being low on the totem pole. I havent done it NON STOP, but you really dont need to PK 8 hours a day, 5 days a week to get the concepts of how things work. Mages do more damage; this is a fact. Its the number one complaint among non-mage PKers: the fact that they simply cannot compare to the damage potential of a mage. All of the tweaks and rebalances have been to try and LESSEN the mages' damage and INCREASE everyone else's. There is a reason for that.

Now if you are getting hit consistently by a melee for more damage than a mage can do, then you need to upgrade your armor. That is a mage's only real defense against non-spell attacks, since our melee defense (even if we somehow managed to spec it) would never be high enough to stop a speced-wpn melee toon. What, you dotn want to wear your "good stuff" while PKing, because you are afraid you will lose it? Then get better DIs or start playng on white servers, where you can go PINK instead and keep your stuff. Or get better at PKing; you dont need DIs and you can always wear yoru best stuff if you WIN.

Here is a point of FACT: Mages hit for over 100 points of damage, without WW, and through LVL 7 pro's on their targets (note this includes landing a lvl 6+ vuln). This is consistent damage, without even including crits. In order to match this damage, a melee must CRIT and be on or near FULL POWER ***AND*** they must have a vuln and IMP at least LVL 6 on the target. If a melee ever hits me like that multiple times in succession without meeting the above stipulations, I am gonna want to know which buff I forgot to cast.

[WEplayer]

ok obviously there was no point on posting on turbine forums when there is a bunch off n00bs on it that dont know aynthign

[Jess The Great]

i think its pretty balanced, melee hits for not so hard, but fast and you cant "evade" them like magic/arrows. archers hit hard, and fast but you can evade them. mages hit hard as hell and slow, and you can evade them.

[Lavigne]

WEplayer. you, sir, (and i use the term VERY loosely as i would be shocked, literally shocked, to find out you were anywhere over the age of 14) need to open your eyes to what your saying. the only person coming off as a "n00b" in this conversation is yourself. read peoples arguments, you may know what your talking about, bug, *GASP* we might as well? no thats just silly, i tell ya what, son, disregard my whole post.

[scorcher]

melees cause too much damage in a given amount of time compared to mages, the skill credits just dont add up to justify mages hitting for more per hit when they take 4 seconds to cast and can easily be dodged(unless your just lazy). getting critted for 90+ and then averages of 15-50 pts every second or less and the mage having to heal which takes 4 seconds(alot of times getting the disrupt message when not even moving due to server lag) a mage cant possibly keep up with that, every meleer i fight one on one only has to know when im casting(which the windup is obvious), then they run around in a circle and peck me here and there, once i have to heal, i am at the mercy of them because i cant heal and get my stamina back in time before they rape me, even if i do get a good hit on them all they have to do is run, because melees are faster than mages and can heal and come back, melees have more options than mages.

You can say I suck at pvp all you want. If you play the average mage one on one with the average meleer who is not a complete moron and dodges the wars(which is easy) then they will win, unless they are too dumb or lazy to run away and heal IF they do get hit once. Mages cant dodge, they have no choice but to take damage, and even guzzling elixirs does not give the health back quick enough just about every time, heals for mages just are not powerful enough to keep up with that, 4 seconds to heal and often only getting 70-90pts, its easy for a meleer to beat that(yes i used stam to health before that!). I am wearing a tinkered helm, gaunts and solls, with warded gsa, this should be considered decent enough to at least kill half the melees i encounter, yet i get owned, because a smart meleer uses his choices wisely, which a mage does not have. I get critted for 90+ (many times over 110+)about once every 10 swings and 10 swings can happen very fast with meleers(not to mention 50+ hits once or twice in there as well)

I used to wear a suit of fully tinkered armor(390+base), which i dont have anymore, it really didnt help all that much.

even with the blood loather spell, its easy to break out another weapon and rape a mage quickly. Not to mention a high skill meleer blood loather doesnt even help alot if at all.

Justify all you want by saying mages hit harder(with credit costs aside), they are slow and easy to dodge. If you are a fast meleer(most are) who can run around alot, (which CAN cause lag and dirsupt messages) all you have to do is peck at them here and there till you land a nice crit, then get in their face and own them. (Heals for a mage are not powerful enough btw) Whats a mage got a good crit that can be ran away from easily takes much longer to attack with and possibly fizzle and take even longer due to server lag, which everyone agrees is abundant. Mage has stam to health, which is good, by the time the mage gets back stamina the amount of hp he got back from the stam to health has been taken down by the meleer, who knows the mage is not casting at them but trying to get his stamina back for the next stam to health, meanwhile the mana is going down.

One major problem is the time it takes for a mage to get his health back and stamina(which is important for a mages survivial). To get back to where the mage was(not including the mana loss), without lag a stam to health one spell, with two revitalizes, takes nearly 10 seconds!(with no lag!, how many times does no lag occur during 10 seconds lol) How much could a melee own in that time??? This is an OBVIOUS problem. Heal spells need to be more quicker or more powerful or a little of both, not to mention the revitalize spell. Tweak this for mages to make it more fair!

Have any of you played a mage against a melee? If you say you can own them easily, either your lying, your a meleer trying to cover up the obvious, or the meleers you fought were much lower level, did not attempt to dodge you, lagged more horribly than you, or one or more of those choices.

[Jess The Great]

i agree with you scorcher, i have faught melees and archers where i just CANNOT hit them, i have had a fight with an archer that lasted 10minutes and i never landed ONCE on him. it can get quite annoying. although now my mage has 380 health so i do a bit better now :p

[Lavigne]

all of these arguments stem from one, single thing.

"The grass is always greener on the other side"

frankly i've come to the conclusion its not even worth talking about anymore since nobody has anything constructive to say. mages say 'its easy for a melee to evade' yah, be a melee, then say that. melees say mages hit too hard and have healing too easy, obviously 'try being a mage'.

its come down to common sense, then, to say classes must be balanced if they're all complaining that the other is too powerful. anyone who has any common sense will understand the logic there. unfortunately anybody who doesn't, who tend to be the majority :(, will not understand and come up with some very 'witty' response...i'll probably be called a n00b...er again.

[Jess The Great]

ive been both bow and mage, it was quite easy for my archer to evade and kill mages.

[Ivanhoe]

lol lav
lol jess


might want to pvp on dt vs a mage that is lvl 126++++++++++

doesnt matter what level the melee is he has no more then a 10% chance to kill the mage.

And by "melee" obviously i mean Sword.

forget about archers or any other melee type. You have 0% chance to kill a mage.


And that was BEFORE loathered weepings.


With loather ingame now. its up to the mage if he wants to fight u or not. If he does he will try to kill u without using loather
if he doesnt he just loathers and u either stay and die like afool or run away and end the fight.

[Jess The Great]

havent really played dt, so maybe that is only with dt.

[Virindi Clown]

First rule of bringing a point into a discussion: actually know what you are talking about.

Therefore, you cannot actually comment on which class is too good against which unless you play EVERY one of them.

Personally, I think melees and mages are fine, and I do play them both. Archers are the only ones that get the gimp end of it at the moment, but I saw a dev post that said that the solution is coming. Until something goes in-game, I can't really say anything else about it. They know it is an issue and have said they are working on it.

I'd also like to say that I hope I never see anyone ever say again that wars are "easily" dodged. Like you NEVER kill anyone with a mage because anyone can just dance around and dodge every war, guaranteed? Come on...

Using "damage over time" as an argument also does not have any application. Fights are not a "damage over time" situation. They are a do whatever the heck you can do hurt the other guy more than he hurts you situation.

[scorcher]

Using "damage over time" as an argument also does not have any application. Fights are not a "damage over time" situation.


lol, come on now.

[sylphia]

Actually VC is right about DOT. When a mage can kill you in 1-2 shots, DOT really doesnt matter; the fight wont last long enough for a good DOT fighter to win. If you cant hit hard and fast AND be able to soak the damage you take and recover from it, you wont live long enough for DOT to become a factor.

Think of it this way: If you have great DOT over the course of 5 minutes, but I can kill you in 1 minute, how effective is your DOT rating?

[scorcher]

Think of it this way: If you have great DOT over the course of 5 minutes, but I can kill you in 1 minute, how effective is your DOT rating?

IF....being the operative word in that statement.

Who says you can kill me in one minute? You could do it in half that time OR LESS.... I cant heal quick enough to counter an attack that I can not dodge.

Nevertheless, the arguement is not necessarily damage over time...It is the power to counter heal from the damage I take.

Damage over time Is a factor when it comes to healing over time. Something a mage can not dodge versus something a melee can dodge, run away from and successfully heal full health and start over is the difference I am talking about. Can a mage run away from a meleer who has hurt them, once they got the mage "on the run" its usually over from there and it is not all that hard to do. You have to agree, this is totally different from a meleers perspective because a mage can not chase a meleer down if they are running, they would have to stop and give the mage at least 4 seconds time to hit them again.

If I miss a meleer a couple of times, which happens alot, I have to try and heal faster than they deal damage. Most of the time my healing capability is far less than their damage. Running is futile because they just sticky to you which is very unfair.

I do know what I am talking about.

[Hubbell]

The ONLY way I can hit archers/melees is delay casting an arc for about 20 seconds making them think I am stuck or something, they rush in and i let it go followed with a bolt that I can only HOPE will land, which it never does.

[Jess The Great]

i think your overestimating(or whatever) alot hubbell

[sylphia]

Mages are just fine when it comes to healing. We have HEal Self 7, Stam2Health of any level AND we can train healig if the mood strikes us. I have 3 ways to heal, compared to your one (if you slap on a wand to heal in the middle of combat against me, you are probably going to die). Not to mention I can BL any weapon you can equip that would actually hurt me. You cant do ANYTHING to directly reduce my damage. You can equip accessories that help, but you cant BL my wand to any effect. Which means I will still be doing my normal damage to you. Sure, you will evade a few here and there and maybe even resist a couple. But the truth is YOU are the one playing dodge 'em, not me. You will spend alot more of yoru time on the defensive than I will. You HAVE to, because I can kill you in 1-2 shots. You have to CRIT to be able to do the same to me. Your DOT is moot if I can heal up in between every shot, which I almost always can.

Simply, the only thing that ever worries me in PK is another mage. I keep elixirs (all 3) and gems in stock in case I get in a bind against my opponent (add a fourth way to heal for e and a second one for you). And remember that in the time it takes YOU to drink a 65-HP elixir, I can hit you for another 160 points of war spell damage.

Again, i SUCK at PK, but I have only lost 3 times: once vs a melee friend who was REALLY good (back when drains were full effect); he had speced life and bascially played a drain-mage until he had me low on everything, then finished it off with his UA wpn. Once was vs another mage that decided to turn on everyone in the fellow and kill us; I happened to be closest. Third time was against a melee vassal, and even he knows I only died because I got lag-locked and couldnt do anything. I have fought othe players that suck and othe rplayers that are very good. If my gimpy-PK butt can win that much with a mage, then pretty much anyne can do it. You just have to be prepared thats all.

[Lavigne]

lol. thats the only way you can kill a melee? ouch to you. now based on your ability to hold a delay cast like that i'd say touche, you must not be that bad, but then you said that is your only way of killing a melee and all that goes out the window.

i dont know about you O.os but in DT we have people who very easily hammer 3-4 potions ON THE RUN. they are so far from dead by the time they turn around and blast a war in our face its silly. lets not use that as an argument.

[scorcher]

sylphia , are you sure your main is not a meleer and you are just trying to make things look better for mages???

Quote: "i SUCK at PK, but I have only lost 3 times"

that is the most contradictive statement i have seen in a while.

Anyone who has pvp enough to have an arguement has lost more than three times.

[sylphia]

Scorcher, pull your head out. I think I know what my main is. I refuse to PK as a melee anymore, because they blatantly get the shaft in 1v1. In group battles, they get to shine a bit more, but I dont like group fights.

You know, my roomie has tried to cinvince me that I am a good PK-er and that my record supports that. I just know how to play mages VERY well, thats all. And I can apply alot of PvM tactics to PvP because of that. But there are PLENTY of folks out there that are much better than me. Like I said, mages are the only ones I really fear in a PvP situation; melees and archers simply dont worry me 1 on 1. If they actually manage to kill me, either they were DAMNED good, there was a technical issue (like getting lag-locked), or I was AFK at the time. Mages can rock my world; I have to actually THINK and stay on my toes vs another mage, even a bad one. Because they CAN kill me if they connect with a couple of spells before I can heal.

And BTW you are contradicting your self: You dont have to LOSE to be able to argue your case. By definition, if I am WINNING, then it supports my case, seeing as how I am arguing that mages are superior in PK, I PLAY a mage, and I WIN. Seems to me that makes my case; how can you possibly think it invalidates my stance? It confirms it.

Sure, if you are runing around in untinkered AL 100 armor or unbuffed GSA, a melee is gonna wax that ass for you. But if you are in maxed out armor, with lvl 7s, it all but negates the dameg done by non-mages. They HAVE to land IMP and Vuln on me to get any real damage. Which I can gem off while they are re-equipping their wpns and immediately chuck a bolt.

I realize that its harder to keep your maxed out gear on DT, but DT is NOT theonly PK forum available to players. You CAN have these things on DT too--if you are good enough to hold onto them :)

[Jess The Great]

Last Update: 21:02 01/23/2004
Version T/D: 0.1.4.3 / 2.6.0.3
Template: Grief BM
Deaths: 764
Birth: 16:30 01/16/2003
IG Age: 49d 00h 19m
RL Age: 373d 03h 18m
Online %: 13.2%




Server: Harvestgain
Current Rating: 1768
Rank on Harvestgain 216
Overall Rank 3358
Best Rating Ever: 1874
Kills: 319
Deaths: 377
Suicides: 5
Streak: 1
Best Streak: 13
Worst Streak: -11
Added On: 2003-04-30 13:01:59
Last Submission: 2003-12-20 21:18:23

[Ros]

its not....that...hard

Melee runs up to hit you - you Vuln first. and now you're hurt.

Drain Health 1 (if you're inclined) or Stam to Health 3 - (Instantly fully healed.)

War Bolt... Melee hauls ass.

War Arc... you miss cos melee is running circles..

War Streak, War Streak - Dead Melee gimp.

Notice how most ALL of that time, he was running from me?

...and I didn't have to move a muscle.

::yawn::
Ros

[Jess The Great]

2 streaks definitely wouldnt kill a melee, and he would heal anyways.

[sylphia]

No 2 streaks wont KILL him but it will certainly put him on the defensive. Once you get stuck on the defensive, you may as well @die

[Virindi Clown]

Mages have arcs, bolts, streaks, rings, volleys, blasts, walls, harm, hecatomb, and drains. Melees have....attack.

I honestly cannot believe I am reading things real people typed up that involve anything along the lines of melees being impossible to kill with a mage. Use your freaking brains, what are you, a bunch of monkeys who somehow learned english and typing and are now trying to take on AC?

And before it even happens, if ANYONE tells me that all those spells are worthless except arcs and streaks, well then, maybe that's your problem right there?

What I really find funny though, is that mages are technically the hardest to hit, because they can move at ALL times, even while they are attacking. People are always like, "Melees run from me and I can't hit them boo hoo!" And are they hitting back while you attack and they do nothing but try and save themselves? Some of you educated monkeys seem to think so, but the answer is no. However, mages do both at the same time, and no one says anything at all. What fantasy world are people living on where they can come up with half the junk and lies that are on this thread? Everquest?

[Mimir]

I have a couple Ideas to balance mages, one is to make ring spells have the same damage and range of Arc spells, but only hit non allied guilds. This would go a long way towards evening the odds when mages are fighting 10 or 20 melees at a time.

the other idea is to make a tinkerable robe that only mages can wear that has a random loot generated armor of 300-1000 which covers every area and goes on under armor. This would eliminate most mages death from those pesky melees.

[Whisp'r]

Normally I would not get into something as rediculous as this argument/thread. Since actually playing right now, however, would be an even BIGGER waste of time (LOL) Ill jump in the sewer.

Mages are now and always have been the most powerful characters ever portalled into Dereth by Asheron's silly ol arse.
PERIOD!

Personally I wish he'd have given us horses and decent footwear (anyone remember hunting in majik sandals or slippers in the beginning...LOL) instead of the cursed battlemage.

I do not and refuse to EVER play a mage but I feel my opinion is valuable because for YEARS I have been working on strategies to beat them. Guess what?

CAN'T BE DONE.

Sure there are some great PvPers out there makin exceptions to the rule, but as with all statistics the truth is in the numbers.

Whenever I read the whiney posts about mages being screwed I just have to laugh and strengthen my resolve to continue the quest for the mele toon that can CONSISTENTLY and REGULARLY take down a mage of equal level in one on one combat. Maybe then their arguments will have merit, but till then its just complaints from people who must have serious computer problems (maybe between the chair and the keyboard!!) and need to come play REAL PK on Darktide to learn some skills.

Tell you what, this weekend only. Come play Darktide and you will not loose a PYREAL for you deaths and it will be just like PKL thanks to the rollback!!!...LOL

I even knew a guy on FF about a month after retal. He refused to train magic of any kind because he wanted to be a PURE WARRIOR. Once we all started refusing to pick him up to hunt he even cracked and got item. I know the thought of a non magic using character is impossible but I still keep the dream alive of somehow coming up with that elusive mage killer that I've dreamed about since moving to DT 3.5 yrs ago.

I think Im getting closer but not there yet. Basically it comes down to what you want to do. I dont think anyone from a white server can really know what it means to be in a red world.

In DT we make our characters with one thing in mind. PvP. I remember as thread where a guy complained because he would have to train Life if he wanted to PvP on some white server and would have to loose cooking and fletch. See my point. Its easy to make a character that does what you want it to. But if its make a mele to kill mages (again consistently and regularly), im still lookin for the template.

Love for mages LMAO. How about some love for Dagger or Staff (the two bastard heritage skills).

[AzulDrakkon]

Originally posted by WEplayer
Ok obviously if people are complaining about melees there not group fighters. And u can be the best damn pk on the game and fight a max sterngth max magic D max sword char u will die.
They not only have max skills but have wards/magic D shield. What do mages have? NOTHING but a weeping wand. Dont say mages got the stam to health spell cuz melees got potions and healing kits. What is the point of tinkered armor in pk? I was fighting today and i was geting hit 50+ through tinekred armor vs a sword toon. He would crit me for 130+. I dont get it seriously lmao

Dang O.os exaggerating again! this is the reason people get nerfed. Learn to bane

anyone with lvl 7 life pros in 400+ armor (thats BANED, mind you)
won't get hit for 50 unless the retard is using power, whereas you blast, drain, streak...dead melee.

[Mage_of_Dereth]

not true azul i have 400base armor and i have gotten hit for 50s thank you :)

but honestly it isnt that unfair.

Guess what happens when a MAGE crits? POW 260-300=ow that makes most melees either dead or streakable which is as good as dead

[Virindi Clown]

Before I get into this, making rings do tons of damage or giving mages more armor is probably the absolute worst thing you can do.

You people somehow manage to forget that even a melee can get attacked by multiple melees, so you don't just go and give mages tons of stuff for that.

People are just crying because for FOUR YEARS mages dominated every character type in every situation. Now melees have started to shape up.

Archers are still where they have always been, so they look like they really freaking suck now (which they still do, that's just the reason why).

Mages are still the best. Look at all the ******* they have, how much damage it does, how quickly they can heal, and how much freedom of movement they have.

Mages also are not HURT by ANY bug, infact, all the animation bugs HELP them!!!

Melees get really screwed over with animation stuff. Sticky is a horrible mess. I constantly lock up and have to jump before I can move, use an item, or get out of combat mode. As a PK, that usually costs me a TON of stamina and can leave me exhausted.

Spin jump...enough said there.

That's not to mention how it likes to suck you straight into war spells from a split second of lag that may have even shown you running around or avoid the spell until you find out you are dead.

[Ivanhoe]

Saying mages arent the most powerfull class is like saying Bloather doesnt effect a weapons dmg.

Its a FACT of AC.


Why people (mostly non dters) try to say otherwise is very laughable .

[Mimir]

well my mage in (enter carebear server here) went PKL and he/she was able to defete almost every melee that he/she came across but then after many wins a melee got lucky and beat me when I didn't bane/used bad tactics/was afk/had 10K ping, now I think that mages need massive lovin' so that situation never occurs again.

[-Nosferatu-]

I wouldnt say im a "great" mage, but i consider myself to be a little better than decent, and personally, I have no trouble with mages and archers, but melees are hell for me. Now maybe I just suck against them and dont time it right, but it does **** me off that when i do connect my 1/3-1/7 shots maybe, they can just run and heal, making it almost useless for me to even fight unless I can one shot them, or get them in a locked room. I think sword guys do do too much damage in too short a time and should get their damage levels dropped a little. Or i could just BL. but that is lame IMO.

[Dougie]

BL is a tactic you should use. If the devs lowered the damage of melees then when someone uses BL on them afterwards it makes melee damage horribly unbalanced against the melee.

Look I would also like to see ways of getting away from melees (without the use of spinjump - little too easy) but damage alteration isn't the solution.

An idea was brought up by someone whom i have to dig up that consisted of removing sticky melee but in a way giving the melee and a mage better fighting. If sticky melee is removed then the mage can get away possibly if he/she has higher run and the melee can have a better time dodging spells without accidentally locking onto the mage.

[-Nosferatu-]

I dont think taking out sticky would help melees at all, at least in most situations, so I hafta disagree with this one. Your right though, lowering their damage, when ppl BL it will make them less harmful, but they still have phantoms and hollows (which should stay the same imo)

[wintergale]

Mage Love? PFFFFFT!!!!!!


Why improve the already strongest character in the game? I swear the devs have some sort of fetish for mages. All there characters MUST be mages or they would do something to at least limit some of the exploits that mages use.

[Virindi Clown]

I need to stop seeing people suggest hollows and phantoms. If you suggest it, go use it yourself.

Obviously if you suggest them, you haven't. Now why exactly would anyone speak on something they know nothing about? That's why we have half of our problems.

I honestly cannot believe how many times I see people say that, when weeping weapons have been around for how many months, exactly?

BL should not even exist, and if it anything it should have been a flat -22 damage spell to wands ONLY with no buff to counter it. Not like any melees would ever land it, anyways.

It amazes me how many things completely opposite of what might have had any point make their way into this game.