Tell us what you think of the July Letter to the Players!

[Lokania]

I said I was done but I can't stop :-)

I have re-read what I posted 3 times and no where do I see that I said my mage could kill end game creatures. I only compare the damage she does on the exact same creatures compared to the sword character.

Yes, I know there is no base 400 War skill. I got carried away in my example.

As I have stated ad naseum, I have no complaints with the damage mages do. It is just time to stop handing out the grease to the squeaky wheels and look at the other classes which have gotten left behind in the dust.

[Eph]

I think someone missed the one part of my statement about VoD and Caul. I said Melee should not be able to Solo well. Mages should have the advantage alone. In groups and fellows, Melee should be able to do well, even better than a mage.

Ok, you want to argue Skill vs Base Damage and DOT.

War to spec is 28
Sword to spec is 16

no other skills should be factored, we are only discussing the one skill, not it's power with others. Melee D is not required for you to be able to hit something with a sword, nor is a mage required to have life, item, or creature to cast war.

Place a Melee vs a Mage, with no support schools, and sword will win. Sword will crit over and over before a war spell is cast, and there are no pros or item buffs to save the mage.


Originally posted by FmrSentFlatfoot
This game is about XP in case you were unaware. The AC of Old has been gone for 3+ years now... it's not so much about fun as it is about the eliteness of that all impressive level number and the skills to go with it. Frankly I look at that and say "Vanity of vanities", but I still have two high level characters and in order for me to feel like I'm getting anywhere, I too need mass XP... otherwise what's the point... I may as well go kill boring tuskers or bugs. No thanks.

I play this game for fun too...

So no, this game really isn't fun anymore.. it's more like a JOB now. Because I've been here so long and am past level 200, people are always looking for me to do things as a provider...

Sure the Devs work hard... but their paycheques are their reward for the work that they do, and I bet you dollars to donuts it's not a small paycheque.

Contrary to what a great many people think, we're all equals on this spaceship called Earth,



You seem confused. You say you play for fun, but do you really? I find no need to level my character, no matter what level he is in order to think I am getting somewhere.

Saying thank you is being repectful towards others. I receive a paycheck, but let me tell you it is not always worth what I should receive. There is very little thanks in my job, matter of fact, many hate me for what I do, and I know I have seen it. In my job you have to be giving or you don't make it.

As for everyone being equal...sure, some are just more equal than others. There will always be people that are smarter, born in to riches, or are hard working enought to get what the want.

"Everyone is equal," go tell that to the homeless guy going through my trash. See what he says.

[Thundercutter]

I would like to respond to several statements that I've read in this forum:


Mages are supposed to be weak and frail and wear light armor or no armor.
That is a concept that was imposed by a certain pen and paper role playing game in order to provide game balance. In the Tolkien stories that it is based on, mages (and elves) were not only NOT weak and pathetic physically, but were the equal to the many of the greatest human warriors. Likewise, Merlin from King Arthur had the constitution of a half-demon (hence his near immortality) and we won't even begin to go into detail about Elric. The great thing about AC is that there are no set rules about what a class is, if you want to play a mage that takes no melee skills, go for it. Likewise, if you want to play a barbarian that has no magical abilities, you have that right. Concept characters are by their nature harder to play than power characters but for role players, the loss in power is worth the gain in "realism".

Mages are better than melees or visa versa
AC is not a classed based system. If you want to be able to throw fire bolts as a warrior, go for it. The concept of classes didn't stop the tumerok warriors from being good in melee and magic. If war magic is the end all and be all skill for an adventurer, every adventurer should take it. At that point, the devs will realize that its power is too great in comparison to the other skills and will nerf it.

Only children whose parents are paying for this game disagree with our statements
I'm 42 years old and have been taking care of myself and my family and paying my own way in society for over half of those years. I take most statements in these forums with a grain of salt but I actually took issue with that one. Just because someone disagrees with you is no reason to demean them (no insult intended to our chronologically challenged members :)).

The squeaky wheel gets the grease
Okay, I don't disagree with that statement; it's true. However, in the months that I've been reading these forums, the mages haven't been the ones that I've noticed doing the majority of the complaining. I've noticed that PvP'ers tend to voice their opinions (in many cases belligerently) more than any other special interest group. However, I'm sure they will be more than happy to tell you that they don't get anywhere near the love as the NPK'ers.

The game is all about experience
I've been playing the same character since soon after the game went retail (my original main was stupidly designed and I eventually deleted him and my character in beta 2 got to kiss the comet with everyone else). My four characters on Leafcull (my primary world) are levels 51 (pure melee), 47 (pure BM), 38 (hybrid) and 21 (hybrid). I started playing my new character on Verdantine about a week and a half ago and he just turned 12th level (he's doing all of the society letter quests, including the outpost quests); he only has Nanto and Yanshi to go. By the way, has anyone else noticed that the starter towns only sells a single color backpack now; so, you have to go to multiple towns (or have a cook with dyes) if you want to have different color backpacks. Granted, playing for fun and exploration instead of experience is my choice; I was only countering the statement that everyone plays for experience.

I'm going to cancel my account due to this change
That statement (or some form of it) has been made since AC first when online; complaints about how things were being done in the AC of Old were just as common as they were in the M$ AC and as they are in the just-bought-back-from-M$ AC. True, some people did drop their subscriptions to AC but many more did not. The reality of the matter is a large (probably the majority) of the players don't consider the changes to the rules or the game mechanics to be a big enough deal to drop AC. I believe that the developers have rightly decided that significant billing problems will cause a massive number of people to drop AC like the proverbial hot potato; because, at that point, you are no longer dealing with the stuff inside the game; real money in real bank accounts or real credit cards are being impacted. Bounced checks and insufficient funds fees are not funny.

The developers are human
I agree whole-heartedly. In fact, I'm amazed that they have shown as much restraint as they have with regards to some of the posts that have been made. I'm sure that Ibn has composed and deleted several responses that would have set half of the Internet on fire if they were posted. I guess my only comment to that is to place yourself in Ibn's shoes, if you post an inflammatory message and demand a response, he or she (I can't tell by the name or icon) can't respond with the same passion; it's unprofessional (although I have picked up on the frustration of explaining about the chance of doing 500% damage for the umpteenth time).

Okay. I'm all marinated now and ready for the flames. :)

[Vlad Morbius]

Some of your points are valid but then again so are some of the ones posted here, by others. The reason for the passion in some of the statements is utter frustration at the complete lack of information and honesty in Turbines responses. There have been numerous direct questions posed and most have been ignored while they deal with the ones they pick and chose.
This is what angers longtime players, and this is what drives people away from the game.
There is a very long overdue need to have a series of well thought out questions and concerns posted and then answered,and in a timely fashion! Yes IBN bears the brunt of this but it's his job, and that's life. Like you, i've been in the workforce a long time and my job deals in quality control, so im bombarded with problems and inquiries. The most important thing you can learn in this job is to learn from your mistakes so they are not repeated and do not cost you $M. Put the necessary controls in place so they are not repeated. Everyone in our company is responsible for quality, everyone is a valuable resource contributing in the overall success of the program and the company!
My point is that Turbine needs to take advantage of their greatest quality asset, that being the hundreds of longtime players and lovers of AC. In doing so they can gather all the information they will need to further ensure the continued success of the game. Think about the benefit of having an on-going Beta resource in the everyday players.The anger and bitterness would disapear if they took into account what the majority of the player base really wanted.(even the pk community)....that was an attempt at humor :)

All in all most people who post here are venting, because of their love for the game and the issues they see that may cause irreparable damage to a game that has been part of their lives for 4 plus years.

[wintergale]

The bow aegis being a good concept will be completely useless in PvP which is the only reason to even have an aegis. Even a 10X tinked 166 mod bow wont do jack squat for damage vs a mage in decent armor and even if you get some good hits in all the mage does is pull a shield out. So why even have this aegis benefit when you will be able to get nearly double the damage with the weeping bow, hollow or phantom bow? Not very well thought out at all guys. This will be a complete and utter waste of everyones time unless a loot generated weapon can be imbued with weeping properties and the aegis.

Oh and why do mages need love? You have got to be kidding me if there is any class that does not need any upgrades or benefits at all it is the mage class.

Oh and when do arrows get better tracking? Slide Chugg getting fixed? etc etc? Bah I am wasting my time.

[Heideggar]

I hear that Vlad.

I had thought that player-Developer interaction was a vital concern to those on the development side. I've found it often disheartening when asking a questiong and finding myself needing to be very exact and precise in my question to get any sort of answer. Even then, I'd have to ask between 1 and 12 questions to actually get a resultant response that is somewhat satsifactory.

Quite frustrating on the part of the person asking the question(s).

While Ibn may read many of the post, which I am fairly confident he only reads about 80% of, it's hard for him to give good answers. There are times where Turbine may want to surprise the playerbase, and there are times where the players' feedback makes for great content. I can only imagine how hard it is for them to choose which they want feedback on, and which they want to be a surprise. Many of us have a serious advantage over many of the developers, not in our ideas, as much as in our game play experience.

Many of us have been playing this game for more years than some of the people have developed games, or been part of this game.

I know when I read something in the LttP, or any article concerning gameplay, if it's going to work out or not. I've been through so many things that I know if something is going to work out ok or not. It's simple to me. That same pool of experience isn't as present to the developers as it is to some of us.


They're trying, and that's good. Hopefully things get a turn for the better. I'd hate to see a game I've grown up on fade away.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

Originally posted by Eph
I think someone missed the one part of my statement about VoD and Caul. I said Melee should not be able to Solo well. Mages should have the advantage alone. In groups and fellows, Melee should be able to do well, even better than a mage.

Ok, you want to argue Skill vs Base Damage and DOT.

War to spec is 28
Sword to spec is 16

no other skills should be factored, we are only discussing the one skill, not it's power with others. Melee D is not required for you to be able to hit something with a sword, nor is a mage required to have life, item, or creature to cast war.

Place a Melee vs a Mage, with no support schools, and sword will win. Sword will crit over and over before a war spell is cast, and there are no pros or item buffs to save the mage.




You seem confused. You say you play for fun, but do you really? I find no need to level my character, no matter what level he is in order to think I am getting somewhere.

Saying thank you is being repectful towards others. I receive a paycheck, but let me tell you it is not always worth what I should receive. There is very little thanks in my job, matter of fact, many hate me for what I do, and I know I have seen it. In my job you have to be giving or you don't make it.

As for everyone being equal...sure, some are just more equal than others. There will always be people that are smarter, born in to riches, or are hard working enought to get what the want.

"Everyone is equal," go tell that to the homeless guy going through my trash. See what he says.

Well, melees can't do better than a mage, currently.

No other skill should be factored? Okay fine, remove the ability for the mage to use life magic along with the war magic he uses to kill the monster, and see how long he lasts. He'll be dead long before the monster is. Of course you HAVE to factor in Melee Def and Healing, if the mage has Life magic to heal/drain in order that he may effectively win the battle. That's all part of the deal. That's how it all works. War without Life = dead mage. Sword without Melee and Healing = dead melee. Doesn't require a degree in rocket science to figure that out.

War/Life spec = 48 + Mana Conv = 54
Sword/melee spec = 36 + Healing = 42

So even looking at it that way, mage costs more. Happy? Still insignificant though, because everything that a mage is must be measured up to everything that a sword toon is, and both get the same amount of skill credits up to level 125 (Ralirea included). Therefore it should be equal, based on level. a Level 126 Mage shouldn't be anymore powerful than a level 126 anything else. It actually takes more work for every other class to attain 126. Melees don't get 360 degree ring spells, unless they design melee weapons that attack in a 360 degree pattern blow for blow. You keep trying to justify where there is no justification.

You say given no extra support schools that a melee will win over a mage? You must be dreaming in technicolour. Melee might get lucky once or twice, but a melee will not crit over and over nonstop like you make it sound... a melee might crit a couple times, but given that the melee likely has at least 100 less HP than the mage has, from that standpoint alone, logic dictates the mage will win hands down. No contest.

You must be confused to say I am confused. Do you even read what I write? I guess you don't read "all" of it. I "want" to play for fun, but when the game maker keeps sticking it to you over and over again, and not enforcing the CoC, allowing the potty-mouths in this game to prevail over decent behaviour, then the game is not fun, no matter how much you want it to be, and try to make it.

I say thank you often... more often than most. People thank me for the things I do for them. It's a good rapport, it works two ways as it should. What are you trying to say? You think you deserve a bigger paycheque (correct spelling there)? Why do you think you deserve more than the next person who does your same job? You think you're somehow better?

In the job that I had prior to being perm disabled, I had to be very giving also, even more than you could ever imagine... but I never once thought I should get more money than the next guy who did my same job. Equal pay for equal work, male or female. No partiality.

There's no such thing as being more equal than others, and those who delude themselves with such thoughts are egotists, that actually don't deserve what they have in this life, BECAUSE they think they're somehow better than the rest.

Your last line is the clincher and really brings home exactly what I meant, only problem is, you don't get it. Your self-importance in thinking you deserve more, clouds your humaneness, which just could never bring yourself to OFFER the guy going through your trash, a break, via buying him a meal.. some clothes.. whatever it would take to make any sort of attempt to show him that he's equal. That's called human compassion for your fellow man... something most people forget all about.

Instead, you'd probably kick him down and say GET A JOB YOU BUM! Never thinking that maybe because of people like you that have rejected him all their lives (thinking you were better), that he's got some mental problems that makes him think he's lesser than the rest.

America has enough money to easily give every homeless and starving person a better life.. a job, food, education, free medical care, the works. If a small dinky place (by comparison) like Norway and Holland can afford to do it on the minsicule budgets they have, America could easily do it and still have an abundance of wealth.. but noooo... turn a blind eye, pretend they're not there, and maybe they'll just go away somewhere and die, so we don't have to bother.

That's the problem, and why "equality for all" can't and won't ever work. It all stems from something called "GREED".

Anyway, this is way off topic again, becaue you couldn't understand what I meant about what equality means. *shrug*

There's an old saying that goes: "Those who think they're something special, are themselves really nothing."

Pretty scary thought, but I believe in it.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

I'd hate to see a game I've grown up on fade away.

Well put, but also remember that nothing lasts forever. Eventually, at some point, AC will be history. It's inevitable.

I started closed beta April 1999, so I'm in my SIXTH year here, and I agree with your whole post. Just from my experience with this game, plus my early involvement as a member of the Zone Online Team (Advocate and +Sentinel), when the devs announce a certain whatever change, I know pretty well how it's going to work out, and how well it'll be received by most people.

Heck, Ibn knows that I know hehe... he should also know as he's been here almost as long as I have. :p

Course, his tongue is kept stationary by the hands that feed him.. so he very likely can't say what's "really" on his mind, or he'd jeopardize his employment. Too bad in a way... but, I guess were it me, I'd take the paycheque and mind my tongue as well. :D

[Thundercutter]

"a melee might crit a couple times, but given that the melee likely has at least 100 less HP than the mage has, from that standpoint alone, logic dictates the mage will win hands down. No contest."

I don't understand why a mage is supposed to have a 100 hp more than a melee. My pure melee has a higher strength, coordination, endurance, health and stamina than any of my other characters. He started with higher numbers and keeps pumping more experience into them. If he runs out of either health or stamina, he knows he's dead. He needs strength to wear his armor and carry his multiple weapons (plus they increase his capability in combat, missile and melee). The same applies to his coordination. I guess I always think of health and stamina as combatant (as opposed to magical) stats.

Granted, mages can use spells to transfer stamina or health into mana but they still cannot exceed their maximum levels. By the way, with the introduction of adept and gifted healing kits, melees and archers can now offset the penalty for trying to heal in combat mode with the bonus from the kits. Granted, they don't get the uber amount of health that the treated kits give, but with an equivalent skill level they should be comparable to a mage casting a heal spell.

Granted, I've never played a really high level character; so, maybe the healing skill drops dramatically at higher levels in comparison to healing spells. But I use a combination of healing kits and health elixirs during combat and typically only die when I realize too late that I'm one or two hits from death.

[Thundercutter]

Ibn,

Is it possible to get something other than healing potions as rewards for the starting outpost and society letter quests (tinctures would be nice). Due to the fact that health potions can no longer be sold, I end up with a bunch of them that I eventually leave on the ground (I hate giving them to the town criers). If tinctures are considered too valuable to give as rewards, please make the reward something useful (like mana charges).

Hmmmm. Just ran into the limit of 1 post per 360 seconds, interesting. I'm guessing this is to counter attacks.

[Forsaken one]

Vlad Morbius “i darn well know what im talking about as far as melee because I have 417 base ua skill.”

Let me get this right your saying it not far that your race skill can’t out kill war magic?? You spend 6 skill credits and you think it’s not fare?

“Now as far as code being changed , maybe you should go read because here is the posted concept changes "Along with the critical hit improvements that we’re adding in July, we are looking at increasing War Magic damage on Bolts, Arcs, and Streaks at spell levels 1 through 6. The goal is to improve War Magic damage over time at lower levels, where it currently lags behind other combat skills in comparison to its skill credit cost. Level 7 Streaks may also have their damage increased, although this is ..........”

Did you read my post or are you just posting in anger? How will level 1-6 war spells help in any way in the vod? I’m talking about end game monsters 5k + health.

“BS.BS.BS. Where is dagger, axe, throwing weapons, mace now!! “ Funny I guess you forgot that weapons got an upgrade (not all for damage but still got a upgrade) not to long ago. The last thing war got was arc’s and that was for the most part PK.

Yes I do know of the other issues that other class have and in time (I hope) Thay will get fixed. Question you may need to ask your self Vlad Morbius is why do you despise mages so much.

Nuff Said!
ps. my challenge to the Dev's still stands and I'd love to have the public around to see the results so these lies will finally end. ~That’s a good idea~

Just an idea you should try to level up a mage and find out for your self.

Lokania you don’t play a mage so I don’t think you can or want to understand. A bug is being fixed in war. Just like many other bugs in other class will be fixed.

The fix is the war magic NOT MAGE. WAR is under powered for its skill cost this is being fixed. This is not about if mages are this or if archers or ua or sword.

It costs 28 skill creds for war because it cost the most it should do the most damage.

[Madgic]

Hiya me again,

hehe Just wanted to laugh a little here.

I could have swore I just saw a post saying mages were hard to level.

LOL LOL LOL and again im laughing.

I have a mage i use to collect salvage she wars and collects and USTs wars collects and USTs she goes and fights olthoi they dont hurt she only needs to have her focus and self at 100 so hay she spent the rest in End and is safe from attack by pure melee stuff.

I made her about a year ago and i sit watching telly chatting to ther clan and salvaging.

I hit 135 with her the other day no struggle no effort and 1 total death so ive not even take any risks.

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL yeah your right its hard to level a mage LMAO.

NOT IN THIS MAGE ORIENTATED GAME ITS NOT.

Just be glad you dont play a melee!!!!!

[Vlad Morbius]

Foresaken one,
First off Go away, or sober up! Lokania has posted she does play a mage and so do I, so we are both quite qualified in what we are saying. As far as the skill points give it a rest, I have stated over and over again that i'm talking about all skill credits having been spent which means equal status.
You don't have a clue as to what you are talking about and this is brutally obvious by the fact that you feebly attempt to discredit others while not being able to back your points up at all.

I don't despise mages, i have a lot of friends as well as guild members that are mages. What I despise are the mages that cannot be satisfied about their allready overpowered characters continuing to Whine about more while other classes get ignored!!.

Mages do not need any critical improvements at this time but several other classes do, and most of those changes are so those classes are even playable, and not a joke.
As far as playing a mage i've stated that, I have a level 77 mage with only 22 deaths. So don't tell me about the trials of playing this character type, perhaps you should eat your own words and play a melee and tell me what you think after getting your butt handed to you.

[wintergale]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ibn
"Two things are important to note with regards to this change -- first off, the damage of a max loot max tinkered AR bow is often comparable to that of a Weeping Bow. Adding this property to such a bow makes it considerably better against mages. Secondly, while this, like the Aegis, was initially designed for PvP use, we expect that it will also see use in PvM combat against war-heavy creatures."


I am sorry to say that this is incorrect. A 166 ar loot generated bow DOES NOT even come close to the same damage as a weeping in PvP. After over 4 years of playing I know what I am talking about. Mark my words this will be a completely useless feature for PvP. Even if you are fighting a mage and are lucky to nick him to low health with this new bow all the mage will need to do to regen is pull out a shield and the bow is useless.

Unless you can add this feature to a weeping bow, or unless you can imbue a loot generated bow with the same properties as the weeping dont even add it to the game.

Again mark my words it will be useless in PvP.

Thank-You

[IgntionTDC]

It's good to see mages be able to hit a monster again like the old days for a considerable amount of damage, and more content added, thumbs up to that.

And the Teaser images were awesome.

As for aegis imbue, as everyone else said, we need it on our weeping. In all honesty, I'm not too worried archer pvp doesn't exist, it's only the joker in a deck of cards while playing Goldfish.

My mage is leveling, I plan on pvp and pvm with him just because I don't like having a health deficeit and I like chars that can buff well. Spells are my security blanket.

[Ruadhan]

First, Thanks for the news. I love my mage but gave up on CS and CB orbs because they never seemed to give and advantage.

Another idea for an addition to the game...
A series of spells only usable when a magic type is spec'd. It seems that by making requirements very high for an item (ie: Missle D 170 or Sword 325) You are requiring specing of that skill to use the weapon and get the uber damage. Doesn't it make sense to give that same capacity to a Class of spells? Or perhaps adding a new class that simply requires War or Life or Critter spec'd? It doesn't seem hard to get a non-spec'd War mage to cast 7's

Ruadhan

[Eph]

FmrSentFlatfoot...

1
Skill credits: No matter how you look at it, mage will always have to spend more, whether iit is with other skills or with out.

Melee skills are higher due to stats being divided by 3 rather than 4. When you look at the critical formulas it makes a difference. It is much easier to Critical with a Melee than a Mage, and as it is now. Mages can critical for less damage than a non-critical hit.

I play two characters, a mage and a sword. My sword crits way more than my mage.

2
You do sound confused about why you play this game. One paragraph you say this game is about being 1337, and you don't feel you are doing anything unless you are making mad XP, the next you are saying there is noting fun in this game, then the next you say you play for fun.

It is probably because you and I have two seperate ideas about what is fun.

3
My whole thing about saying "thank you" was to Turbine. First you say it's their job, and they get paid well enough, although in your last post you say it is good rapport to do so.

When I refered to my paycheck, I meant there are times when I worked way more than what most would to get what I get paid. Working an average of 14+ hours a day, 7 days a week 52 weeks a year for less than 24k a year isn't great, specially when you risk your life everyday. I am better off now, but I know what it is like. As for being better, we all get paid the same.

4
Never assume how I treat others. Saying I kick him down and call him a bum is a lie. You don't know me. I don't know you, so I don't call you a cripple and say you are sponging off other people now do I.

I have helped my share of people, and just like in the game (AC) I have been taken advantage of. There are places for the homless to go, and there is free food for them. I offer food, and I find it funny when most ask for me to just give them the cash, and they'll buy it. "Beggers can't be picky."

The fact remains that in this world everyone will not be equal, you even admit it that there is something called "Greed." And that my friends is why some will always be more equal than others.



FmrSentFlatfoot, since I guess this got way off topic, any further discussion you would like to have we can do it via PM. I am open to try and understand your point of view if you are open to try and understand mine.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

Originally posted by Thundercutter
I don't understand why a mage is supposed to have a 100 hp more than a melee. My pure melee has a higher strength, coordination, endurance, health and stamina than any of my other characters. He started with higher numbers and keeps pumping more experience into them. If he runs out of either health or stamina, he knows he's dead. He needs strength to wear his armor and carry his multiple weapons (plus they increase his capability in combat, missile and melee). The same applies to his coordination. I guess I always think of health and stamina as combatant (as opposed to magical) stats.

Granted, mages can use spells to transfer stamina or health into mana but they still cannot exceed their maximum levels. By the way, with the introduction of adept and gifted healing kits, melees and archers can now offset the penalty for trying to heal in combat mode with the bonus from the kits. Granted, they don't get the uber amount of health that the treated kits give, but with an equivalent skill level they should be comparable to a mage casting a heal spell.

Granted, I've never played a really high level character; so, maybe the healing skill drops dramatically at higher levels in comparison to healing spells. But I use a combination of healing kits and health elixirs during combat and typically only die when I realize too late that I'm one or two hits from death.

A mage has 100HP more because they start with very little strength (maybe 30-40) but instead have high endurance, around 60-70 or better. 10 coordination, 10 quickness, (which is what Melee Def is built on), and 100 Focus plus 100 Self. That's your mage. Your melee needs great strength, great coordination, a good bit of quickness, and some focus/self if you're going to have any hope of being able to cast a few spells by level 50+ and level 7s by 80-90+. If you think you can survive without magic, then you can put it into endurance. But any smart meleer will usually start with 10 endurance... and THERE is your difference.

There's NO heal kit that can compare to Life Magic Heals, none. a Mage can self heal from 1 health with the same proficiency as you needing 1/4+ of yours to get a successful heal, and even then you might still fail or need to heal 2-3 times to regain full health. Plus, a mage can also hit Stamina (of which they have tons) to Health level 1 and go from almost no health to full health in a split second. No meleer could even dream of doing that, and that's where the imbalance is, as it's just not fair at all that because a meleer who also has Life Magic can't hold a wand all the time, and get an instant FULL heal like a mage can at will.

You admit to never having played a real high level character, so on that note, and without trying to sound superior or anything, we'll end it here.... because there is a marked difference between lower level and high level. Like about 40+ Billion XP.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

Forsaken One writes:

It costs 28 skill creds for war because it cost the most it should do the most damage.

So you really think a mage should have more power?

My OG Battlemage just turned 110 today. My Main is a level 208 3 school archer, Maxed Bow, Melee Def, Magic Def, Life Magic, Strength, Endurance, Coordination, Quickness, and 10 points away from max Focus and Self.

That's a lot of XP, that's a lot of points into Skills. My mage who is worth a total of 2.2 Billion XP can make my Archer who is worth 50 Billion XP, look silly on the battlefield.

I just love all you mages who whine and complain about how all the meleers can outdo mages. See, I play both. My Archer is right up there with the top of the line Uber players, and yet with all his abilities to withstand abuse, he doesn't even compare to a mage that has 25 times LESS XP? Something is terribly wrong, my friend.

Mages are just too sickly overpowered. It's as simple as that. They need to be toned down, or Meleers need to be boosted up by a hefty margin to stay in competition.

You can tell people they don't understand till you're blue in the face, but you see, I have the toons to call your bluff and say with certainty that it's you who doesn't understand the humility of being wiped out by a comparatively low level mage.

Just one small thing as an example. If I use a Rend Bow (Slash or Fire) on a Virindi Profatrix, and not Imperil/Vuln it first, it will take me with all my skill as a top archer, at LEAST 20-25 shots to take it down, and still about 6-10 shots if I hit it with Imperil and a Vuln of level 7 power.

How does my level 110 Mage handle it? 2 Level 7 Flame Bolts. DEAD.

60-120+ seconds for the Archer, 5 seconds for a Mage of 25 times less XP worth. Makes the archer feel like he's oh so powerful and all that time building his toon to such a stature was worth it. <vomit>

I rest my case. Mages are way, way, way too powerful.

EDIT: Let me clarify that if I have to Imperil and Vuln, I will switch to an AR Bow. Vulns are useless when used with a Rend.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

Skill credits: No matter how you look at it, mage will always have to spend more, whether iit is with other skills or with out.

Not true at all. It's all relative over the life of the player.

Melee skills are higher due to stats being divided by 3 rather than 4. When you look at the critical formulas it makes a difference. It is much easier to Critical with a Melee than a Mage, and as it is now. Mages can critical for less damage than a non-critical hit.

I play two characters, a mage and a sword. My sword crits way more than my mage.

Mages don't need to critical, they already have too much power. They need to be taken down a few notches or the Meleers need to be boosted up a FEW notches to keep it in-line with proper balance.

You do sound confused about why you play this game.

On the contrary, so do you.

One paragraph you say this game is about being 1337

If you read it properly, you'd realize I was referring to how the MASSES see it, not me personally. Btw, what's "1337?" Is that like a special number that means something important? Sorry, I'm a 50 year old.. I speak English, not alien.

and you don't feel you are doing anything unless you are making mad XP

There's the proof, I never made that claim about myself, you're putting words that didn't come from my mouth, into it. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

the next you are saying there is noting fun in this game, then the next you say you play for fun.

You're pretty good at playing the Devil's Advocate, but it has no effect on me. I know what I said, where you happen to be comprehension challenged.

It is probably because you and I have two seperate ideas about what is fun.

So you admit that you prefer to play in an environment filled with foul-language little children, who never get reprimanded by the +Envoys who are supposed to take care of such problems? Yes, then I guess we do have seperate ideas, as I find such things are what block this game from being fun. The stench of what's permitted to go on, what was once against the CoC, but is now seemingly, perfectly allowable.


My whole thing about saying "thank you" was to Turbine. First you say it's their job, and they get paid well enough, although in your last post you say it is good rapport to do so.

If you want to keep mixing up everything I say like some cheap kangaroo court lawyer, then we'll just stop exchanging between the two of us. I don't wish to deal with people who take things from different contexts and then apply them to a one paragraph response that attempts to make the other look like a fool. That's very improper and underhanded conduct. I'm surprised Ibn would choose someone like that to saunter in here looking to pick a fight. Sorry, I won't fight with you.

When I refered to my paycheck, I meant there are times when I worked way more than what most would to get what I get paid. Working an average of 14+ hours a day, 7 days a week 52 weeks a year for less than 24k a year isn't great, specially when you risk your life everyday. I am better off now, but I know what it is like. As for being better, we all get paid the same.

My goodness, what rank are you to get such a skimpy salary? heh Even a PFC gets more than that. Unfortunately, I'm not better off now, I paid a much higher price than you did, but I still have use of my upper half, and what little is left of my brain. ;)
But saying you worked 14+ 24/7 All year long, is not true. You "DO" get some R&R mixed in, or you wouldn't last, either from the outside or within yourself. We lose a lot of young kids to personal suicide because they can't take the 14+ 24/7.

Never assume how I treat others. Saying I kick him down and call him a bum is a lie. You don't know me. I don't know you, so I don't call you a cripple and say you are sponging off other people now do I.

Hmm.. maybe I was wrong about you being a good debater, you can't even identify an hypothesis when one stares you in the face! Geez, I'm sorry then, I didn't realize you didn't know the difference in print.

I have helped my share of people, and just like in the game (AC) I have been taken advantage of.

Likewise, but then Real Life is not AC and vice-versa, so please don't confuse the two like a great many in AC do.

There are places for the homless to go, and there is free food for them.

Yeah, Christmas... one meal and a bed for the night, then back out into the street for another year, until next Christmas, if they live.... The government doesn't even pay for it.. it's paid for by donations from people who actually care. I was talking about doing it 365 days a year and paid for by the Government. Quite a difference. Let's eradicate poverty! How can we justify sending countless Billions of dollars to help other starving people in the world, when we won't even fix our own similar problems? Fix our homeless and starving FIRST, then we'll better understand how to help other parts of the world, instead of sending shiploads of food and money, which ends up under the control of that country's Elite, where the poor it was intended for never knew it was even sent. There's the epitomy of GREED again.

I offer food, and I find it funny when most ask for me to just give them the cash, and they'll buy it. "Beggers can't be picky."

Why can't they be? Why do you feel that it should be your right to dictate to them what they do with whatever money you're willing to fork over to them? If you give them the money, it's no longer your money, but theirs. They can do with it, whatever they want... and the best part of that? You have a clear conscience in knowing that you HELPED someone who asked it of you. If he goes and squanders the money on drugs or whatever.. that's his problem. You did your part by giving him what he asked you for.


The fact remains that in this world everyone will not be equal, you even admit it that there is something called "Greed." And that my friends is why some will always be more equal than others.

There you go putting words in my mouth again. I never admitted that there are people who are more "equal" as a result of greed. What you've just said, is that you don't understand the meaning of the word "equal". Go look it up sometime!

FmrSentFlatfoot, since I guess this got way off topic, any further discussion you would like to have we can do it via PM. I am open to try and understand your point of view if you are open to try and understand mine.

No, actually.. let's just end this discussion regarding poverty and the downtrodden. It's clear to me you need to educate yourself more on the subject, before we'll ever be able to discuss it properly. To do so will require a change of heart and more openmindedness on your part, because your ideals seem to be contorted with what's needed to truly understand what it is to be POOR. You don't need to be poor to understand it, you just need an open heart that bleeds for the less fortunate in our world. Most of them wind up as unnamed casualties, and the rest of the western world looks upon them as BAD people, which we took care of in the name of peace.

I'm done with this now...

[Heideggar]

"A mage has 100HP more because they start with very little strength (maybe 30-40) but instead have high endurance, around 60-70 or better. 10 coordination, 10 quickness, (which is what Melee Def is built on), and 100 Focus plus 100 Self. That's your mage. Your melee needs great strength, great coordination, a good bit of quickness, and some focus/self if you're going to have any hope of being able to cast a few spells by level 50+ and level 7s by 80-90+. If you think you can survive without magic, then you can put it into endurance. But any smart meleer will usually start with 10 endurance... and THERE is your difference.

There's NO heal kit that can compare to Life Magic Heals, none. a Mage can self heal from 1 health with the same proficiency as you needing 1/4+ of yours to get a successful heal, and even then you might still fail or need to heal 2-3 times to regain full health. Plus, a mage can also hit Stamina (of which they have tons) to Health level 1 and go from almost no health to full health in a split second. No meleer could even dream of doing that, and that's where the imbalance is, as it's just not fair at all that because a meleer who also has Life Magic can't hold a wand all the time, and get an instant FULL heal like a mage can at will.

You admit to never having played a real high level character, so on that note, and without trying to sound superior or anything, we'll end it here.... because there is a marked difference between lower level and high level. Like about 40+ Billion XP. " -Flatfoot

I dunno if you still play Flatfoot, but I should probably point out a few things in this section that aren't quite accurate.

Someone starting with 10 endurance is only 45 hp down from someone who starts with 100 endurance. This 100HP stuff is an exageration. I've got a lvl 117 guy, non mage, starting with 10 endurance, and has 295+ hp, and it's still pretty cheap compared to bow, ua, melee D, trained life (10 mill a point), item (10 mill a point), and things like that.

Your melee doesn't necessarily need a good bit of quickness. True, 90 points off from 100 max starting quickness does take off a good 30 points of melee D, but shields are pretty nice. Also, the max animation speed for melee attacks is around 180-190 buffed, which is not hard to achieve with 10 starting quickness. Yeah, it takes longer, but it's not hard. If you spec'd melee D, those 30 points are cut down quite a bit over someone who has it just trained (both starting with 10 quick). Getting melee D spec'd isn't that hard to do if you really wanna tank well. Is it that melees want to cast like mages, evade everything, and do at least as much damage as anyone else? There are pros and cons to all templates.

Life magic heals are nice, but there is still a chance of not succeeding those casts. It's not full proof. Likewise, neither is healing skill, but healing skill can do things life magic can't. It also costs less too. Comparing ALL the benefits of a skill should be considered, not just the fine details that you want to pick out. There _are_ health potions that don't fizzle, lag cast, dud-out, movement fizzle, and things like that. No skill check either. Always heal from 1 hp. There are even items on corpses that drop +100hp philtres. There's even a quest for these meats that give you +120 hp. You may say, "I shouldn't have to use them", and you're right, don't use something that's put into the game to help you out. Don't use dispell potions because they aren't part of a skill either. You aren't going to start voicing against crafted goods now are ya?

Stam to HP 1 has been updated. You don't get full HP back with it. Using lvl 4+ might if you have the right stats. Heal self does not give full hp back if you're down as much as your example seems to have people at.

btw, it takes me less time to heal with healing kits than it does with magic. If I'm super low, I have health gaining items. If I want, I can do both of these behind a shield. I dunno what your setup is, but I seem to do pretty good with what I have fighting the things I do. And yes, I use healing kits when fighting marguls and stuff that hits for 140+ a shot. Why not? Two pumps with my healing kit and I'm at full health. I can heal from 1/4 health pretty well, and it doesn't cost me mana. Kits are cheap too. But whatever. There will always be people saying someone else is insanely overpowered because they aren't doing so well with what they've got.

My vassals take pride in outkilling me in a lot of the fights we're in. They're in their 90-120 area, and I'm far beyond that. It's just the way some things are. Not everything will be for everyone.

When new wield req. weapons come out, should I stand up and flail my arms around ******* and moaning? Nah, I think it's great that other templates get cool stuff. I like getting cool stuff too.

Is it because something isn't for _you_ that you're upset?




"I just love all you mages who whine and complain about how all the meleers can outdo mages. See, I play both. My Archer is right up there with the top of the line Uber players, and yet with all his abilities to withstand abuse, he doesn't even compare to a mage that has 25 times LESS XP? Something is terribly wrong, my friend." -Flatfoot

Just because you may be better at one class over another, or rather template over another, doesn't mean that mages are that more powerful than other non-mage templates. I know quite a few people who do awesome with melee/missle templates, but cringe with mage templates. Why is that? Could be the exact opposite for you. Or, could be what you fight, dunno. I've got an UA/bow/melee D spec'd guy with trained life for buffing. There isn't a place he can't survive in. None. I have a lot of skill credits with this template too. I could have easily spent the credits for spec'd life for more offensive power, but I chose more defensive power.

"Mages are just too sickly overpowered. It's as simple as that." - Flatfoot

Well, if you say it, it _must_ be true lol. I'm not sure how you play your characters, but I do fantastic with pretty much anything handed to me. Maybe you aren't doing something right. Could be as simple as not having the appropriate gear/items for your character to survive well. Maybe it's observer error. In any case, it's hard to take someone's word for it without any solid evidence.

Just because you "have the toons to call your bluff and say with certainty" doesn't mean a damn thing. I've seen maxed out characters suck it up hardcore, and I've seen low level people surprise ya. Having xp in a template does not automaticly make you a knowledgeable nor good player in this game.

"Just one small thing as an example. If I use a Rend Bow (Slash or Fire) on a Virindi Profatrix, and not Imperil/Vuln it first, it will take me with all my skill as a top archer, at LEAST 20-25 shots to take it down, and still about 6-10 shots if I hit it with Imperil and a Vuln of level 7 power.

How does my level 110 Mage handle it? 2 Level 7 Flame Bolts. DEAD." - Flatfoot

Small example indeed. Choosing monsters that go against you makes your argument look nice, but still flawed. Creatures were indendedly put ingame to counteract mages. Hollows, Grievvers, crystal golem types, etc. Some virindi aren't nice to archers, whoopdie do. Everyone has to put up with that in some shape, fashion, or form. I could easily say that a lvl 80 melee is way overpowered because in certain places, like matron hive east in Baishi, my lvl 80 all trained mage gets whooped up on. It's just a horrible example. Why do people use this kind of junk in their arguments? I'll never know.

Building your character? You were in xpchains for christ's sake lol. You can't tell me you earned 50 billion xp on your own, or because you were a big leaders and had all these people passing you xp for what you did for them. Why are you mad your chained character isn't what you hoped for? You must have had really high expectations or something.

This is the best though:
"I rest my case. Mages are way, way, way too powerful." -Flatfoot

what case? lol. You have nothing that's substantially well proven. Your examples are very specific and narrow. You have no compelling evidence to prove anything number-wise, that's factual.

If that's your case, you should get a _real_ lawyer lol.

[HK Fooey of MT]

Have you considerd splitting the Magic Schools into Basic and Advanced schools? By splitting the Schools into Basic (levels 1-4) and Advanced (1-7), players would have the option to learn the limited version early, then as more skill points come available, gain access to the more advanced spells.


The standard Specialize/UnTrain gems would still be available to move the skill between Trained and Specialized, but the additional gems would move between Basic and Advanced

Total costs: C/I L W
Speciailzed Advanced 16 20 28
Specialized Basic 8 10 14
Trained Advanced 8 12 16
Trained Basic 4 6 8


It would be possible for a starting Mage to Specialize all four Basic schools, and move them to Advanced later, just as it is possible to train all 'Advanced' schools now, then Specialize later



A lot of people are happy about the Mage love comming up, but I'm primarily a Melee player. While the mage overcomes the Defenses and Protections, I also have to deal with his Armor. Armor Rending helps with the Armor, and Damage Rending goes aginst the Protections, but, it's one or the other, where the Mage has both immediately available. Likewise the Mage normally has Magic Yeild immediately available, while I have no such option.

The monsters switch between weapons and spells with little effort. Is it possible for a successful weapon strike have an additional effect? such as a 'paralizing blow' (coord-xx), or a 'mind numb' (focus-xx). Having a few effects stacked onto a single weapon could help make up for the Mage having every spell available on one casting device.

[TheKnight]

I need to chime in here once again as I need to get this off my chest and provide Ibn with the proof he seeks. (long post)

From July LTTP:

July Letter To The Players (http://ac.turbinegames.com/index.php?page_id=253)

Billing Migration

To that end, in the coming months more of our Engineering and Quality Assurance resources are going to be dedicated to the billing migration. I mention this because it means that fewer of our In Concept topics will be moving to In Development. The success of the migration is quite simply higher priority.

First off we players where told back when turbine first purchased the AC franchise back from MS that the billing system was going to be contracted out to a third party to do the new billing/login system. And now we are told this information that Turbine is directly doing this process. My question to Turbine is first, what happened to this third party doing the billing/client login and why was a new third party not found to continue the work?

You state how you (Turbine) can now, not put in 100% of your resources into monthly content, because of an internal issue that should have no bearing on monthly content. This said it is VERY poor business practices to say how this process is being handled by a contracted third party, and now to say how it is being handled by turbine itself, as because of such redcues the content level each month.

I know of no succesful business out there in the world that would even dare to consider this an option, as generally speaking Pissing off your customers is never a good thing to do. Moving along...

Improved War Magic Critical Hits

Crippling Blow for War Magic currently scales from adding 50% of the spells damage on critical hits to adding 100% at maximum effectiveness. In July, the maximum effectiveness will be increased to adding up to 500% of the spell’s damage.

Again, the three changes listed below will affect only War Magic spells landed in combat on monsters and War Magic spells cast by monsters on players. War Magic critical hits for Player-vs.-Player (PvP) combat will not change.

Ibn you wanted PROOF of the 500% to monsters, here it is from your OWN statements:

Again, the three changes listed below will affect only War Magic spells landed in combat on monsters and War Magic spells cast by monsters on players.

And please don't give the players that lame excuss of only "5% of monsters use CS". Don't insult your paying customers intelligence here. Of over 3+ years playing I have seen plenty of times when monsters landed Critical Strikes with War Magic even before the Rend items where introduced, so to say that it's a low % and won't effect people is just insulting.

Even if monsters won't use CS imbued wands/orbs the damage they will do overall in July's update is going to be INCREASED NOT DECREASED!. This is NOT a good thing, can't Turbine see this, as all you haveto do is just look at this topic and count all the unhappy people who have posted for you devs to NOT implament these changes. The Hetacomb spell is already WAY to powerful as is for the drudges, that is the LAST thing we players need is for their spells to do even MORE damage, so we Non Mage Playing Charecters die even faster now.

Aegis Effect for Loot Missile Weapons

In July, Bow, Crossbow and Atlatl users will be able to gain the ability to add a Magic-Absorbing property to any loot missile weapon. This property will work in exactly the same way as an Aegis shield, but has the side-effect of a 10% melee defense penalty. You will be able to grant this property to an item that has been imbued and/or tinkered, but you can’t add an imbue after having added this property.

I haveto ask this, but WHY even bother with such a poor implamentation if your not going to commit 100% to fixing it? This item is utterly useless to the archer/life mage hybrids, and even more so to the pure archers out there, as a drop of 10% to melee d is a pretty big hit for alittle better magic d. This should not even be getting put INTO the july's patch when there are CORE problems with how archery works in this game, period!

Instead of actually fixing the archer class properly this is what is implamented, and is frankly insulting to all the archer playbase in this game. Instead of fixing:

I. The Weeping Bow [so archers could have a chance at PVP]

II. Implamenting Arches for arrow paths

III. Easy to make elemental arrows/arrows [without needing a trademule]

Many people are saying DO NOT implament this into the game, and it's almost like nothing we as your paying customers say matters in this issue. No matter how many of us say "Do NOT do this" or "this will not help us" you guys at Turbine insist that it will be put in, whether we say Yay or Nay. Instead of REALLY cracking down on the core bugs in this game like:


Sticky Melee/Melee Drag
Mansion/Villa Invisible Bug
Casting Spell yet nothing happens bug
TradeNote Cashing In Pyreal Bug [Overflow backpack]
Rubberbanding back to a center of monsters/Jumping causes you to lag back while running
@filter combat_self / @filter combat_monster does nothing and are broken. Only @filter combat works which filter out everything
Jumpspin
Healing Animation Bug [Should be instant like Heal Spell but is extremly slow]
@house hooks on bug where you try to use a hook and it refuses to open. Only way around this is to do @house hooks off/@house hooks on again to reset it.
Placing a water fountain down bug where you get caught inside it.
SPELL EXPIRING BUG where you get flooded out with Item Magic Expiring notes so bad that it totally floods your game chat window buffer out.



I put the spell expiring one last as that was just added, but to make your PAYING customers SUFFER with that Dung Pile of something you people dare call code is insulting to all your loyal paying customers. How can you people at Turbine sleep at night, knowing you left in such a game breaking bug for over a month straight? Knowing full well you could have, NAY SHOULD HAVE Hotfixed this steaming pile of dung IMMEDITATLY, not 1+month later. How someone at Q & A MISSED all those spells expiring is beyond me as I previously wrote. I mean at LEAST Hotfix the blasted thing, but No Turbine decided to make Loyal Paying Customers suffer through this horrid code screwup and not think twice about it, or even APOLOGIES to the players.

I mean at LEAST have the Common Curtesy to come onto the boards or even Email the players and say "We are sorry for the Item Magic Mess up and we will fix it ASAP", at least SOMETHING.
The fact that nobody from Turbine even made an ATTEMPT to address this really concerns me, and it is not the first time something like this has happend here. Being busy with the billing is one thing, but to totally and throughly dump that major code nightmare on your PAYING Customers is just a Massive slap in the face to all your customers.

Thank you turbine for totally and utterly ruining my 3+ years of playing this game and hard work I put into building my melee charecters, which are now with July's update going to be totally useless even more so now with these upcoming changes.
Thanks for NOT listening to your paying customers and proceeding ahead with your plans regardless how many paying customers said "do NOT do this". Thanks for letting us suffer with YOUR poor codework by making our chat buffers overrun with item magic spells expiring. And lastly thanks for just not giving a DAMN about your customers and doing whatever you feel like despite a majority of customers telling you to NOT DO THIS.

If I was president of Turbine Inc, I would guarantee damn T you that heads would be rolling right now and whoever the hell let the item magic spells expiring slide in Q & A would have been fired immediatly. Here's a RADICAL IDEA:

Company + Happy Customers = Happy/Rich Company with Happy Customers telling all their friends about how great XX company is.

Company + Shafting the Customers = Unhappy/NonRich Company with Shafted Customers telling every person that will listen how XX company sucks.

Take a WILD Guess what all the people you just shafted will do? If your "gameplan" was to drive away melee centric players then congratulations, you have achived your goal.

Regards

[Heideggar]

Knight:

I'm fairly certain that life bolts aren't affected with these new changes.

So, if you're concerned that Martyr's Hetacomb and other life bolts may affect you substantially, they won't. They'll stay the same.

I agree with the rest of your post though. Turbine shouldn't make the players pay even more considering the price increase, sources being pulled away from content, etc. Their excuses are such B.S. it's mind boggling.

Why would I encourage someone to try out AC other than if they had a low end computer?

I have buddies playing many other non Turbine related games. How am I suppose to convince them of playing AC other than those games when I know this B.S. is going on?

[Forsaken one]

“First off Go away, or sober up! Lokania has posted she does play a mage and so do I, so we are both quite qualified in what we are saying.” Vlad Morbius

A level 77 mage makes you a low level gimp. Please take the time to read and my posts you mage will not have a chance killing the monsters in caul or vod.

“I have a level 77 mage with only 22 deaths. So don't tell me about the trials of playing this character type, perhaps you should eat your own words and play a melee and tell me what you think after getting your butt handed to you.” Vlad Morbius

Umm I guess in you anger you missed reading my post.
“I have 2 170+ toons. One is a archer 182 other is a mage 171. My sword is only 102.” Forsaken son
I think I’m getting a good Idea on how to play melees. My lvl 102 sword is my 6th slot. (No chain level no mass xp pushed in to him) BTW I don’t take him and try and kill magic casters.( Still to low level for that) He walks all over bugs.

Please keep putting you foot in you mouth. In all my post I have made it clear I’m talking about end game 5K + health monsters. Please take you level 77 mage to vod Try and kill something.
Mages at lower lvls are very power full when it comes to many monsters. I will not argue that. No did I ever. I’m talking about WAR and END GAME MONSTERS.

“Mages do not need any critical improvements at this time but several other classes do, and most of those changes are so those classes are even playable, and not a joke.” Vlad Morbius
Please level up you mage then come back and post about how over powered mages are. Landing a critical hit for less then a normal hit is the way it should be??? O but you have a level 77 mage so you know how that works.

Off topic hear
In my eyes the best set up for this game is an Archer. Bow magic D spec 100 cord 100 focus/self. Good armor al 440 base, Major bow, cord, quick, And few quest items. Call the temp what you want it but it works very well in this game.

[TheKnight]

Heideggar,

Thanks for the nice words and it is good to see that I'm not alone in my feeling over this. As for the Hetacomb spell I hope it does not see an increase to it's damage as it is already to powerful and increasing it anymore would make it insanly powerful even for a level 7 spell.

There was a time I did reccomend AC1 to my friends and is how most of them got hooked on it like myself, the sad thing is there is no way I would reccomend it now to anyone, as it has changed so much and is nowhere near the original design which made it so great to begin with. I enjoyed learning spells with the comp system as that was one of it's very unqiue draws and I still think it should not have been removed at all.

Killing off Unique things in your game which sets it apart from other games, is always a bad thing to do as that is what sets your game apart from the other ones out there.

You would think think now with the billing transition turbine would do bug fixing to this game finally, as this is the perfect time to do it. Instead we get poor content if you can even call it content for June/July/August because of this billing/login setup system. The core bugs are still in this game more then 3years later and you would think that squashing those core bugs would be priority #1 on the list and THEN worry about minnor things like the town of LIN and Aegis Bow Rens.

And just for referance, you go play any other MMORPG game out there and I can promise you 100% that no other game would allow their Paying Customers to suffer for over 1+months with Item Magic Like Spell Spam flooding the users chat box to overrun. You would never see such abismal treatment of customers making them suffer through a major Q&A Screwup in :


Anarchy Online
Dark Age Of Camelot
EverQuest
Star Wars Galaxies
Ultima Online


And you certianly would not see those companies blame a billing migration/login system as a reason for the lack of monthly content updates, that is for sure.

The item magic expiring bug problem is as severe as when the Chat system was broken in AC2 for months on end, and we all know how many players left AC2 in disgust because of it constantly being broken. No MMORPG company that wants to stay in business would dream of making their paying customers suffer through such game breaking problems, yet Turbine does time and time again. Right now you either turn off your speakers totally or reduce the in game volume down to almost mute levels to work around this dung pile of code.

I asked Ibn for an address I could write to, so I could complain to the president of Turbine Inc for allowing this to go into the game, as well as how they need to hire some non blind Q & A people, because whoever tested the new item magic system is obviously blind as hell to miss 80+ lines of spells expiring flooding their screen. Yet Ibn has not provided myself or anyone else wishing to register their complaint with a proper address.

This has turned into freaking Horizons here, and belive me that is NOT a good thing at all. Implamenting changes even when the vast majority of players say "No do NOT do this" and you guys at Turbine implament it regardless, such as the change to the Weeping Weapons/Hollows etc. The people that know this game the best are the old vet players who have been around 3-4+ years and know this game inside and out, yet you constantly implament changes with comments like "Tell us what you think of XX changes for XX month" when it does not matter a drop what we think as it's already scheduled for implamentaion when it's posted up!

It's like asking someone what they would like to eat from the menu and you say XX food and you get the "daily special" and when you complain about why you got the "daily special" when you specifically asked for something else, all you get back is this retarded look from the waiter like your speaking an alien language.

I have never once seen a poll posted up PRE-Letter to the players asking if XX should be implamented into the patch, not once as long as I played this game for over 3+ years. To say you listen to your fans is utter bull as when you post the LTTP you've already decided on what is going into the patch regardless of how many think xx idea is bad. I mean why not just come out point blank and just tell your paying customers the truth for once, instead of pretending to give a flying rats arse about what we think.

On the VN boards over 1000+ DarkTide Players told you to not implament the changes to the weeping weapons, but what happend to those multiple threads? Locked, and Deleted, people in mass said Do NOT do this and you guys just blew them all off and implamented it anyways. How is this listening to your customers?

I'm sorry but when you raised the price from 9.95 to 12.95 regardless for the reasons, we should be getting BETTER customer service here, NOT WORSE. Making your paying customers deal with the Item Magic Screwup for over 1+month all the while we all pay this increased fee is robbery, plain and simple.

If I ordered a Pay Per View Event and it did not come through properly or came through poorly, do you think I would gladly hand over my money for it, or would I call the company and ask for another showing, or refund?

I'm sorry but if I was in charge of Turbine there would be no way in hell I would allow such a thing to happen without some serious conseqences for whoever decided it would be OK to leave such a game breaking bug in, totally ruining your customers experiances.
And the LEAST I would have done is said Sorry for the screw up, and gotten a hotfix out ASAP to correct the total screwup.

It's plain as day to see this issue does not matter at all to turbine as not a single Dev or anyone has publically apologiesed for the royal screw up with the Item Magic Spells Expiring, or for the Locking/Deleting of the DarkTide Players who joined together and said as one, that they do not want those changes to the weeping weapons/hollow implamented as it was finally, pretty balanced before those changes.


The sad thing is the blame was always dumped on Microsoft as they where always the cause of the games problems and lack of content because they supposedly shot ideas down left and right. It is now clear as day that it was never Microsoft calling the shots when it came to monthly content, as what could and could not be added into AC1, but it was Turbine all along.

Since you guys at Turbine have taken over, I among other people have noticed a significant drop in the quality of the monthly patches where it is practically nonexistant now. No great epic lore stories to drive it forward like Martine/ShadowWars/BZ, Asheron is nowhere to be seen, (it's CALLED Asheron's Call for god sakes!, AC WITHOUT Asheron around is like well..AC2 and we all know how well that did) and all we get are retarded "Your Life/Stam/Mana must be XX base to weild this item" now.

I'm sorry but how about some useful items for a change and not 24/7 house items. How about you guys actually FIX the core bugs hmm? And when you say you listen to your customers, try to ACTUALLY Mean it eh?

Enjoy whatever you turn this game into, because it sure as hell is NOT AC1 anymore, it feels more and more like AC2 each day and if you guys at turbine keep down this path and change AC1 into an AC2 clone, you will have just as many players for AC1 as AC2 has with it's 1500 or so players left and will drive all your longtime players away, just as you have driven me away by your poor actions.

Regards

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

I swear to god, no one knows how to read properly, or they just read the sections they want to see, and discard the rest, and then judge according to what they see, which is not based on the full text. *shrug*

I guess I was wrong Heideggar, I thought you were on the meleers side, I guess you're on the mages side... or maybe you're just looking for someone else to attack.

Not everyone maxes out Endurance. Most can't afford it. That's why some mages exceed 100HP more than a meleer. If you want to be technical in that both parties are maxed out or spent the exact same amount on Endurance, then yes there's 45 points difference. My Archer has 345 buffed HP, Mage 330 at level 110, still a good ways to go to Max which he'll likely never see. Amazing how it's cheap for you, being a melee and expensive for my mage, seeing he started 70 base End. Go figure...

I love your comment "If you still play". lol Good one, I'd almost laugh if I took you serious. I play more than you do, unless you're like me, stuck in a chair your whole life, retired (forcefully I might add), and are logged in for sure 12 hours/day.

Melee does need a lot of quickness. Of course this is dependant on how serious you consider the importance of melee def as being the difference between life and death. You can't always put a lot into quick, if you want to also cast magic. Then you need to split it up into quick/focus. My UA (level 166) - (see? I know about shield usage also lol) has a buffed Melee of 477, and even with a shield, surrounded by Mutilators will still take a few good hits for 10+. Of course he doesn't die.. but if you knocked 30+ melee off that total, even with a shield he'd take considerably more damage. Obviously there are advantages and disadvantages to every template, I never said otherwise, but the part you like a lot of others conveniently miss, is where I said all we want is to be able to heal as conveniently as a mage does.

Are you saying you enjoy, with your 117 melee, going toe-to-toe with some magic casting VoD critter, and as it wars you for 200+ of your 260, and just as you go to heal, you get sent to the lifestone? Doesn't it irk you that your level 117 mage friend gets hit for the same 200, and in one second he's at full health again, and already winding up to make the next shot? That's what bothers meleers the most. They get hit hard, they have to stop, heal (probably get hit again or killed during trying to heal), while the mage continues on like nothing happend, when they got hit just as hard? Get what I'm saying this time? I sure hope so... as that's what I've been saying all along.. only you're too engulfed in looking to put words in other's mouths. After this next patch, that 200 will become 250+ and most likely send you to the lifestone in one shot.... but the mage, because they have greater endurance, and therefore health... they'll STILL survive and carry on like nothing happened.

Full proof, or fool proof? heh Anyway, Stamina to Health 1 is a guaranteed first time everytime cast... it never fizzles, and what it does is replenish a mages health to almost FULL in 1 second flat, even with the recent changes to it. No kit does that, unless you're special and have a custom made heal kit given to you by a Dev, that no other person has. I suppose you attack Marguls on your own without a mage present? Try it sometime, let us all know how well you fared. Let us know how many times the same Margul sent you to the lifestone, and is still alive to this day telling all its friends about the brave human who tried to kill it solo, without help! lol

I guess you have unlimited strength to carry around dozens (equaling thousands of burden) of those new fangled heal potions and rations which weigh from 100-200+ Bu each? Sorry, as an archer my arrows are far too heavy for me to carry around all the extra. If I did that, I could never pick up any loot.. and frankly I still can't, if I'm going to remain under 100bu so my stats are at their peak performance. My UA toon is different story, but I still don't like to carry a ton worth of heal potions. Mages don't need to worry about burden, up to 200%... try that with your meleer and see how well your melee def stands up. lol Back to the Lifestone for you.

You say it takes you less time to heal with a kit as it does magic. Duh... as a meleer, no kidding eh? lol Same for me. You think we have time to put weapons away, pull out a wand, heal, and then re-equip our weapons? Obviously not. That's just another part of the complaint. Why can't we have a similar healing system, if we have life magic? Why should you need a wand to heal yourself? It should just be a click of the mouse.. if you have the skill and the mana to feed it, it should just heal you. If you decided to not train Life Magic, that's your problem. Most serious meleers are hybrids now anyway, it's suicidal not to be.

My vassals take pride in outkilling me in a lot of the fights we're in. They're in their 90-120 area, and I'm far beyond that. It's just the way some things are. Not everything will be for everyone.

When new wield req. weapons come out, should I stand up and flail my arms around ******* and moaning? Nah, I think it's great that other templates get cool stuff. I like getting cool stuff too.

Is it because something isn't for _you_ that you're upset?

Huh? What are you talking about? Where did any of that come from within my previous posts? Out of left field it seems. I never mentioned that I was upset about something not being for me, or moaning about others getting cool stuff etc. rofl.. what on earth made you say this? wow... get a grip. :rolleyes:

In any case, it's hard to take someone's word for it without any solid evidence.

Just where, in your own words in this forum, prove what you claim? Works two ways bud, what I say is right for me, and many there be who agree, both in this forum and in-game. You're claims, for my outlook are mostly false, because what you say is contrary to my own findings, and I've been here longer than you, if you include closed/open beta, which doesn't apply. Just using it as an example. No, technically we've been here just as long, and we each have our own findings. Nothing here says that your ways are any better than mine, and vice-versa. I hunt the same areas you do, but our data conflicts. Strange, isnt it?

Having xp in a template does not automaticly make you a knowledgeable nor good player in this game.

I never said in a definitive manner that it did. You're saying it here all by yourself, and you're right, It doesn't. I've been surprised by some lower levels myself, but I don't care what you or anyone else says... when it comes down to sheer brute power, XP into the required skills that give you the edge you need to survive make ALL the difference.

It's just a horrible example. Why do people use this kind of junk in their arguments? I'll never know.

Why, simply because there are FAR more monsters that give a meleer/archer a hard time, than there are that give mages a hard time. Oh, and a level 80 meleer that goes into 80+ Matron will in most or all cases get raped over and over again within seconds, because like the Mage, a lvl 80 just doesn't have the melee to withstand the onslaught. Don't even try to say otherwise, because it's just not so. It might say 80+, but no 80 I've ever met can survive in there, UNLESS they go with an army of level 100s and stay in the middle of them, taking the odd swing. Like your surprise at why people use such examples, I also wonder why Turbine puts a level restrict on a dungeon where the requirement should be 20+ levels higher to survive it. lol It's like they want for people to die multiple times.

Building your character? You were in xpchains for christ's sake lol. You can't tell me you earned 50 billion xp on your own, or because you were a big leaders and had all these people passing you xp for what you did for them. Why are you mad your chained character isn't what you hoped for? You must have had really high expectations or something.

*SIGH* Again, what on earth are you talking about? Where did xp chains come into anything I said? They're GONE now.. history, not even part of the discussion.. have zero to do with the argument. Why do you bring up insignificant claptrap that has no bearing on the topic at hand? My gosh man.. get a hold of yourself! You're a monarch? Glad I'm not in your clan... must be an awful lot of confused people in it, when their monarch goes off into various directions that have nothing to do with the issue. lol

This is the best though:
"I rest my case. Mages are way, way, way too powerful." -Flatfoot

what case? lol. You have nothing that's substantially well proven.

Neither do you. Your point is?

Your examples are very specific and narrow.

Contrary to your examples, at least I don't veer off into the unknown and state things that play no part in the topic at hand. That's far worse than narrow.. it's mindless.

You have no compelling evidence to prove anything number-wise, that's factual.

You keep making reference to this, when you're in the same boat. Why is what you say more factual and evidential, when all you have is a pile of "words" as well. What's good and works for you, doesn't necessarily work for everyone else. What I say is what I think and feel, I never said it is what everyone should accept. Maybe you expect your followers to agree with you, but I'd never attempt to make automatons out of my friends and followers.

If that's your case, you should get a _real_ lawyer lol.

Still mixing Real Life with AC..... At least you fit right in with all the others who can't grasp a difference between the two. *shrug*

[Vlad Morbius]

Foresaken One,

First off I was at VoD for 4 hours today and died a total of twice. I picked my battles 1 creature at a time and did fairly well for only being 77. I did land a crit several times on Seraph drudges and managed to take down 2 paradox and countless undead, although it was a long effort.
There is no way a higher level mage should have any problems landing a crit with a higher then 388 buffed war that i have, and certainly no way they need higher hitting capacity. At no time did i land a crit for less then what i was waring them with ..except when the debuff went.

As far as the higher level creatures on Caul and in VoD, I think a higher level mage would do very well hunting in the same way that i just did in VoD. It seems to me the only issue you really have is that you just can't take monsters down fast enough and 70plus million an hour isnt enough. What i'm angry and frustrated about is the fact that mages can survive and do well soloing these areas where as most other classes are left to the mercy of fellowing with the likes of you.
Now as so far as my not reading the posts, my comments as well as Lokania's are geared towards not only this fix but next months mage"inconcept" changes. You rattle on and on about a toon with life and bow, or life and sword, when we are specifically targeting a pure melee (offensive skill), one which btw that would never survive a minute in VoD at level 77 like i did with my mage today!

The game is unbalanced, a mages plight in this game is a freaking joke and Turbine is blind to the rest of the player base and too busy coddling whiners like you.

[krack]

"150 base War Magic skill to maximum effectiveness at 400 base War Magic skill"-LTTP

Out of curiosity...doesn't war magic base max out at 381 specialized?

[Forsaken one]

What i'm angry and frustrated about is the fact that mages can survive and do well soloing these areas where as most other classes are left to the mercy of fellowing with the likes of you.” Vlad Morbius

We finely got to the bottom of it. Now I under stand. You are mad that you can’t do it all. That’s why I have an archer, mage, and sword. Every skill type has its strong points and week points. WAR magic is getting fixed. Sorry that you don’t like it. Turbine is fixing a bug. Other classes will be getting fixed all so.

Please tell me more why is it you have such a hard time soloing??
I think you have some issues that you need to get over.

This is a game.

My archer solo’s fine. Hell I solo bobo with him. I after my sword hits 125 I’ll solo vod. All I need are a few more skill creds. So you killed few solo monsters in the vod on you mage. Your point is? I can do that on my sword. He can land debuffs on some monsters in the vod. If you have a 150+ toon and cant solo in the vod I think you may need to learn how to play the game.

[Heideggar]

If two people spend the same xp in health and endurance, and one started with 10 endurance, and the other 100, the difference is 45 health points. It's that simple. Sure, if someone doesn't put xp into their health, it will be lower, duh. Mages put xp into health because they get hit all the time by melee attacks. Course, they could pick up melee D and somehow get that to work with their 10/10 quick/coord. Spend the xp into health, mages do because they get hit by pretty much everything. Mages have a slight advantage against magic with 100/100 focus/self for magic D, but in the high end game, those resists aren't that common without spending the time debuffing the creature. Even then, it's not absolute immunity to magic. Far from that. So, if you need more hp to live through something, raise your hp. Need elixers to help stay alive? Go get some.

My lvl 117 melee has almost 300 hp, and it's not that hard to raise. He doesn't get hit for 200+ in VoD. 170 sometimes, but it's usually around 150 if he actually does get hit. I tend to move and know when something will cast at me. Not always, but it sure lessens the number of times I get hit by war spells.

So, of my 300 (not 260) I may get hit for 150-170, so I'm down to around 150-130 hp. I flip out of combat, hit a health item, and double pump a heal, and I'm back at almost 300 hp depending on damage taken during the healing process. I'm moving the whole time, so it's extremely hard for another war spell to land. It's not 100% perfect, but neither is healing on a mage. I have a lot higher healing skill than my mage does too. I heal for at least 100 every time with gifted kits with him. He's only 117. Maybe I just play him really good!? I go toe to toe with everything with him. I may not do super awesome damage, but aint nothing gonna kill me either. I made a fellow based character. Someone that would work with others. If I wanted a solo character, I would have done things differently.

"and in one second", I think you like to exagerate this. It takes more than 1 second to heal for 200+ on a mage. 200 hp is 1 stam to hp 4 (which could cause for a revitalize afterwards, or a drain stamina other 3-4+), or two heal self spells, of which both are 3-4 seconds each. I really wish it only took one second to cast spells lol.

I don't understand how you're coming up with mages just tanking 200+ shots. I _never_ see that lol. Mages have to stop attacking and heal too. Magic D isn't perfect, we can die too ya know. How you come up with this I don't know.

This next patch won't be increasing the damage from 200-250. Since I've never been hit by a creature with war magic for 200 (180 _maybe_), you're exagerating _again_. Ibn posted the numbers on the increase to the damage. Have you had a chance to look at it?

"Stamina to Health 1" dude... ugh, stam to health 1 only gives back a maximum of 50 health. Stam to health 4, does not take one second, and still takes off resources of a mage. It's odd, stamina to mana seems to be important in refilling a mage's mana tank. hmmm.

hehe, I _do_ attack marguls without mages present. It ain't easy cuz I'm a tank, and it takes a bit longer, but I can do it. I don't see the big deal about it. Healing at 1/4-1/5 your health isn't hard to do with the right kits, and knowing how healing skill works.

My melees have pretty descent strength, but I still use THE's. 65 health ain't too shabby. Couple that with a double pump heal from my kit, and it's all gravy : )

I wouldn't say burden is not a factor for mages as much as it isn't as big of a factor. 1000 tapers is 6k burden. It can add up, but it doesn't. My mages carry 2-3k tapers, and with their lean setup, they start out hunts at around 60-70% burden. My melee is at around 40%. Maybe slim up a bit to carry stuff? I don't carry 100 health gaining items either. 10-20 tops for me. Some carry a bit more. Personal choice, not necessity, to carry many.

I have healing skill with my melees, archers, AND mages. I used healing kits on all 3 types to know that healing with a kit gives more in less time.

"Most serious meleers are hybrids now anyway, it's suicidal not to be."

It's not suicidal, it just allows for more single player ability. I'd take a tank person in a fellowship over a hybrid. They have more defenses, they put more xp into different skills that apply better in fellowship play. At least imo, and I see a good portion of non-hybrid people, and they're doing fine. I don't know why you try to make everything seem so dramatic when it's not.

Skills have costs, those costs are associated with their worth. Some skills aren't quite worth their credits, and vice versa. Worth does not mean just one aspect of a skill. Healing skill has several different appicable abilities/uses. Life magic has even more with defensive, debuffs, life bolts, drains, restoration abilities, transfer abilites, etc. It's 20 credits to specialize. 20 credits to be able to have all those worth while abilities. Not 20 for heal self or stam to health, but 20 for that, revitalize, stam to mana, imperil, vulns, festers, life bolts, drains, etc. People who use a lot of the abilities of life magic will find its worth to be more than others. Likewise, people who use healing skill wrong, will find it worth less. You have to compare the good with the bad in all situations, not _just_ healing yourself, to find the worth.

It's wierd how you always say you've "been here sinc beta", and "been here first", and "I was a freaking sentinel for pete's sake" lol, it cracks me up : ) Though, I don't think you hunt the same things I do (at least not entirely everything), or in the same environment, and the same way. I don't even see people where I hunt. Ok, maybe once a week I'll see someone running by all lost. I swear, I _never_ get hit for more than 180 with a double 7 from a creature. From people, yeah, many times. Never from creatures. I don't have wards on either. High level spells take more than 1 second to cast. A good portion of the data you say happens is exaggerated, or observer error. Thing is, I'm not the one claiming all these exaggerated numbers are true. I'm just saying they are not correct. There's a difference.

"..when it comes down to sheer brute power, XP into the required skills that give you the edge you need to survive make ALL the difference."

of course it does. It's template against template, not player + template vs player + template. Players have a lot of say in the outcome of fights. If two people are just gonna stand there and duke it out, the one who has the template most suited for that specific environment will win, but that's not to say that a good player will make their template shine above and beyond the other person who has billions more xp into their character. Thing is, this isn't about sheer brute power from xp into certain skills. If you're a good player, you don't need to have sheer brute power, and all this excess nonsense means little to nothing.

If I _really_ wanted to, I could make a character with only a couple of skills. I can get around a lot of skills by knowing what I'm doing. I don't need awesome missle D if I move : ) I don't need awesome melee D if I can get the creature not to attack so much. I don't need healing if I have health foods. I don't need magic D if I evade war spells. I don't need to put xp into a lot of my skills if I have portal gems, trades mule, and things like that.

One of the good things about AC is that it's not template vs template, it's player + template vs player + template.

"Oh, and a level 80 meleer that goes into 80+ Matron will in most or all cases get raped over and over again within seconds, because like the Mage, a lvl 80 just doesn't have the melee to withstand the onslaught. Don't even try to say otherwise, because it's just not so."

lol, that's just horrible thinking again. Honestly, if a melee'er buffs a shield (obviously you don't know enough about shields as you thought), a lvl 80 melee can do fine in there. They get awesome coverage within a 180 degree arc infront of them. They will need to keep their shield placed well, not let things get behind them, and that sort of thing, but it works out, and it works out very well. I tell my lvl 80 melee guys in my allegiance to go there, and they have a great time. They may die from time to time, but they don't have problems recovering. They know to stick to areas that they can recover, and in the off chance things go bad, which happens to a lot of people from time to time, they have patrons and a monarch, and many others in the allegiance, that like recovering bodies. That lvl 80 won't have the same problems as a lvl 80 missle or mage. I've got a lvl 80 mule. He's mace, go figure, oh, no life magic. Buffs with 5s (didn't buy 6's and 7's yet), and he did just fine with his bludge rending mace in there. Evades are there, yeah, but he didn't die. Try it out. It actually works. I'd love to make that up, but when you see lvl 80s in there surviving it can't be false like you say lol.

[Heideggar]

"*SIGH* Again, what on earth are you talking about? Where did xp chains come into anything I said? They're GONE now.. history, not even part of the discussion.. have zero to do with the argument. Why do you bring up insignificant claptrap that has no bearing on the topic at hand? My gosh man.. get a hold of yourself! You're a monarch? Glad I'm not in your clan... must be an awful lot of confused people in it, when their monarch goes off into various directions that have nothing to do with the issue. lol"

It has bearing on this discussion from your comments. I said "were" because, they are in the past. Were is past tense, look into that. Yeah, I find that people who have a hard time grasping concepts and sticking to a discussion try to nitpick at anything they can, like me being a monarch, or that I have glasses, or something like that. It what people do when they run out of things to say, and get frustrated. It's cool. : )

"Neither do you. Your point is?"

The fact is, I didn't say I was making a case, you did. Get it?

"You keep making reference to this, when you're in the same boat. Why is what you say more factual and evidential, when all you have is a pile of "words" as well. What's good and works for you, doesn't necessarily work for everyone else. What I say is what I think and feel, I never said it is what everyone should accept. Maybe you expect your followers to agree with you, but I'd never attempt to make automatons out of my friends and followers. "

You're the one pushing that "this does this" and "this does this much damage". I'm not the one who brought it up. If you're gonna say something does 200 points of damage, prove it. All I'm saying is that you're not entirely correct on your numbers, which are exaggerated. My followers art smart enough to know if something works or doesn't, and that info gets spread around to everyone. I suggest things for them to try out. If they're having problems with fighting certain creatures, or areas, we sit down and discuss some things to help alleviate the problem. I even go out there with them to observer their actions in real time to get a view of what's going on. We agree and disagree as any group may. We also may be better at figuring out and helping one another. It's tough to say, but we do what we do, and we're happy with where we're at as a group. The only thing I expect my followers to do is be honest. That's it. If they wanna break, they can go any time they want if I'm not fit to be their monarch. See, that's how things are. You can press this button and break allegiance with people.

"Still mixing Real Life with AC..... At least you fit right in with all the others who can't grasp a difference between the two. *shrug*"

Yeah, mixing real life with AC, yeah, uh huh. You're the one taking this so seriously that you are trying to prove this and that, have a case, and what not. The lawyer bit was an attempt at levity, which apparently you should look into.

I'm just curious, does it kill you knowing that there are people out there, possibly me even, that know more about what they're talking about than you, mr.-been here since beta-,?

I dunno, just from your past posts, it seems that you take extreme pride in the time you've played AC, and not really what you've done in AC. I know some people who've played an extremely long time, but don't necessarily know as much as some. These same people take pride in that they've been around, and find it tough to accept that their knowledge isn't as extent as it once was. I'm sure it'll happen to me too some day : )




Krack:

Out of curiosity...doesn't war magic base max out at 381 specialized?

Yes, it does. The current, or rather soon to be past, system was based on the 150-400 base war magic range. The new system will be changed to the lower scale given by Ibn. I think it's 150-360 *scratch head*. It's in the article I'm pretty sure.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

Heideggar writes:

My lvl 117 melee has almost 300 hp, and it's not that hard to raise.

Y'know what? I'm going to avoid a ton of writing, because after what you say about your 300 health, this argument is no longer worth my time, for you are not an honest debater.

My Level 106 Sword: 1.9 Bil Total XP
End start = 10 -- Now 140 Base -- 180 Buffed. Cost to raise = 2,768,070.
Health start = 5 -- Now 200 Base -- 220 Buffed. Cost to raise = 1,826,927.

My level 166 UA: 16.4 Bil Total XP
End start = 10 -- Now 170 Base -- 210 Buffed. Cost to raise = 30,398,940.
Health start = 5 -- Now 245 Base -- 300 Buffed. Cost to raise = 20,063,300
He also wears Warrior's Vitality +10HP, plus a Jaleh's Necklace +25HP additional.
This means his actual buffed HP is 265 without the powerups.

A Level 117 character has a total of 3 Bil XP.

Even Heideggar, level 136 Mage (nothing spec'd = gimped mage-- my level 110 is much better off and has much higher magics), who started with 60 Endurance, and currently has 245 BaseHP and COULD buff to 320HP Total but ONLY IF you used both Warrior's Vitality AND Jaleh's Necklace, and without them, a total buffed 285HP.

So please explain to everyone here just HOW a level 117 character could have 300HP Buffed (Oh yeah, you did say almost... does that mean 220? 230?... please define almost for us), when you don't even have enough total XP to have anywhere near 300HP Buffed, and that's even with the two aforementioned powerups. I thought by allowing you 260, was being very generous.

Sorry dude, gotcha... and there's no escape for you. It is NOT possible for a level 117 Sword toon to have a buffed 300HP, unless you were so gimped that your sword skill couldn't even hit a Mutilator, and you sunk almost all of your XP into Endurance and Health.

Without the health powerups, my level 166 UA would have to Max Endurance at a cost of about 3 Billion, and then spend another Billion+ to get it to 300. Only because of those powerups, does my (I must emphasize) LEVEL 166 UA have a 300HP Buffed.

There's nothing more that needs to be said. Even your main Monarch character at level 136, without those health powerups doesn't have a buffed 300HP.

Even Heid's vassals, Tryst and Yanaba can barely make that much HP buffed. Tryst could, because s/he has 278 base. Yanaba OTOH only has 259 base, and would need powerups to attain 300HP.

So, I'm really sorry (even though I enjoyed proving it) I had to be the one to show everyone that what you say, is not the truth, looking at the actual stats, which DO NOT LIE.

As far as I'm concerned, the rest of what you say also holds no water with me... so I'm going to wash my hands of any further talks with you, as you've shown you can't be trusted.

I checked all the level 117 sword toons on MT, and there were two listed on Treestats (I figure since Heideggar was there, so would your sword toon?), yet both of them were not in your monarchy. Go figure. Do you even HAVE a level 117 Sword toon, or is that also made up to sound good?

What was that about needing a good lawyer? :D

P.S. You kill Marguls solo huh? ROFL.... riiiiiight. I bet they laugh at you a good bit, saying "are you kidding?" before sending you back to the lifestone. :eek:

[AzulDrakkon]

V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V

Major endurance (8)
Essence Glutton (30)
Warrior Vitality (10)
Veil of A. Blood (7)
Endurance buffs (20)
+75 total HP
He has 225 base HP.
10 starting end
and still has huge Axe skill.

Thats also not mentioning the "Beautiful Burning Coals of +50 HP", They don't stack with Glutton, but they still would jack DLA up to 320. Face it, high HP is easier than ever to get, if I wanted to I could probably get him to 400 HP by level 136, when you factor in that with 100 starting endu I'd have +45 extra HP...that would put me at 365 at 107 :P Yes it factors in a lot of "powerups" but none of them affect his ability to kill, in fact w/ Blazing heart I have a free necklace spot, and the veil is good enough to wear w/o the spell. Warrior's Vit ring is no prob, as it doesn't take an important slot, and my Major Endu is on a 10x 340base al shield. I also forgot to mention the doll's eye bracelet, but thats ok...its only an additional +1hp. :)

[Hemorhage]

i know of a friend that has 402 HP....... granted he is like lvl 170ish

but when i was just breaking lvl 95, i still was powerfull enough to solo though VOD and still have 305 HP.

[AzulDrakkon]

Originally posted by Kossuth
Despite never having posted a comment about it I have never really understood people arguing that a weapon costing 4 pts or even 16 should do anywhere near the damage of one costing 28 pts. Currently the only thing that war has going is flexibility (and lets be honest I change casting implements constantly in VoD nowadays). Don't get me wrong thats useful but it needed to be a lot better than that for a +12 to +24 difference! Arguing that anyone who complains that their mage who spends 28 pts on their killing skill should be damn better than someone who spends 4 (grief/life/ua for example!) means the person is a whiner really just reflects on the fact that you have an advantage and denigrate anyone who would seek to redress that balance.

The point system is simple if you pay 4 pts for a killing weapon you should be FAR worse at killing than the person who pays 28 pts.

/sarcasm on

But I'm sure you can understand that if you're being honest about it.

/sarcasm off


God forbid you guys ever learn that mages don't need melee D. which is um, 20 points to spec (or fletching, or alchemy...if you're an archer). But I'm sure you can't understand because you're a mage...go vuln something for me and shaddup. A mage has all the points for everything that mage needs. Just like everyone else. if war costed 16 credits mages could get anything they wanted. think about it...

Mage
War 28s
Life 20s
MagD 12s
Item 8t
Crit 8t
ManC 6t
Total 82

Extreme Sword
Sword 16s
Melee D 20s
Missile 6t
ManC 6t
Life 12t
Item 8t
Crit 8t
Heal 6t
Total 82


SHOCKING!

[Heideggar]

When I say _about_ it's +/- 10 points from 300. Hey, but at least you're trying to contradict my statements with what looks like factual numbers. It's a good start.

I love this one lol "..this argument is no longer worth my time, for you are not an honest debater."

It never was an argument to me, you just took super offense to it. I'm not here to debate, just state my opinions. Sometimes it looks like I'm debating though, so I can see where you may get that. I try to be honest with what I say, and I don't see anywhere in my postings I'm being dishonest.

"Sorry dude, gotcha... and there's no escape for you. It is NOT possible for a level 117 Sword toon to have a buffed 300HP, unless you were so gimped that your sword skill couldn't even hit a Mutilator, and you sunk almost all of your XP into Endurance and Health. "

uhh, yeah, you got me, oh man, now I feel bad. First, I don't have a sword toon, second, he _does_ have about 300 hp because I dumped around 300-400 million into end/health not too long ago. I spent my XP pretty wisely, and as such, he has good stats for his level. He sacrificed magics for other things that _I_ want to have good on him. I've got the ability to have good health _and_ hit pretty much anything (even mutilators) pretty well. When you have high attack mod melee weapons, it helps in hitting that stuff. Remember, there's more to a melee's attack skill than just the number showing on your character panel : ) He hits often on the swarm mutilators btw. 80% I'd say. But you're absolutely right, that can't _ever_ happen because it didn't happen with you. Fact is, it _is_ possible to get that good of health if you spend the xp right.

Oh, btw, I'm betting you got Heideggar's level from treestats!? ummm, that was submitted like a year or more ago. So, why are you being dishonest and saying that I'm a level that I'm not, with stats you say I have, but I don't? : ) OHHHH, you got bad info or didn't look it up right? whatever, just pointing it out for ya next time you decide to spend the time looking up another person's stats.

Yanaba and Tryst probably haven't updated with treestats in a while too. They have pretty good hp from what I see ingame when they're on.

Your "actual stats" are not actual stats. They're outdated stats, so... wtf did you prove!? That you aren't good at analyzing the info you see on treestats!?


"As far as I'm concerned, the rest of what you say also holds no water with me... so I'm going to wash my hands of any further talks with you, as you've shown you can't be trusted."

can't be trusted!? lol, who's the one thinking they're right using bad info? that kills me lol. You _just_ showed that you think whatever data you see is right without fully understanding it, which is most likely why the numbers you created for the damage taken from creatures was exaggerated. Thanks for reinforcing my original post about that.

"I checked all the level 117 sword toons on MT, and there were two listed on Treestats (I figure since Heideggar was there, so would your sword toon?), yet both of them were not in your monarchy. Go figure. Do you even HAVE a level 117 Sword toon, or is that also made up to sound good?"

Dude, I DON"T HAVE A SWORD TOON. Why do you think I have a sword toon? Did I say somewhere I had a sword toon!? My guy is UNARMED, his name is Xanthar, and he's not even in treestats. Heid isn't in treestats either, except as shown to be a vassal to Heideggar. I do not use treestats. You get it now!? Just because I don't use treestats doesn't mean I don't have those characters. Dang, this is just getting bad for you. Ever think that people don't use treestats!? wtf.


Oh, this is just freaking icing lol "What was that about needing a good lawyer? : )"

Seriously, get one. Maybe they'll understand something about "analyzing data" and tell you about it.


"P.S. You kill Marguls solo huh? ROFL.... riiiiiight. I bet they laugh at you a good bit, saying "are you kidding?" before sending you back to the lifestone."

It's like you're mad that someone can solo a Margul and it's not you lol. Do you not dodge their wars when you fight them!? Do you not heal when they do damage to you? Just because you have a hard time with Marguls doesn't mean others will too. I take one margul at a time, maybe you don't!?

[Heideggar]

I dunno Azul, your example just seems a little wierd for me.

You're comparing the credits of a grief-BM with a tank-Sword !?

I'm just saying there may be a better example to better emphasize your point.

Tank Mage vs Tank Melee or Grief-BM with Grief-Sword, or something like that perhaps?

[Hemorhage]

i thought this was a threst to give them our imput about the july letter to the players.....not a debate or personal issues thread.....

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

AzulDrakkon:

Don't include the Coals, you die, they die. You only get so many per 5 Exarch Golems you kill, and you don't find them in a special dungeon somewhere. After 4 hours, if you don't die, goodbye +50.

+30 Essence Glutton, fine. All the rest you mentioned, fine as well. But 225 base HP at 107, that's hard to accept unless you start very high End. If you started at 10, then the cost would be too great, for me anyway... unless you gimped yourself in another 1 or 2 areas. You can't have it all. You have to make trade-offs.

Case in point: Server MT, Lurcher, level 117 Sword. Started 31 Endurance, has spent 134,601,866 XP to get a base of 219HP. Had he started 10 End, knock it down 10HP to 209. Add all your extras (minus the Coals), and he's got 284HP. Very nice for 107, but then not everyone has all those extras, and that's a very valid argument. The way Heideggar makes it look is like it's normal for any melee to have 300HP at a low level (in today's day, 100 to even 126 is relatively low level).

Like my UA, instead of Glutton, he still wears Jaleh's which is only -5HP, no major End and no Veil. If he did, he'd have 315, or 320 with Glutton. In either case, his base would remain the same, and at the cost I posted. That's a total of 607,216,757 XP for 245 Base HP. No level 117 could ever afford that and still be able to win fights against high level stuff. I highly doubt Heidegger kills Marguls, even one at a time as a Meleer. Just more bloated wannabe talk.

Oh, and my mage doesn't have Melee Def. :p
He's War/Life/Creature Spec, and he ROCKS! Certainly better built than Heideggars non-spec gimp mage, who, incidentally DOES have Melee Def. lol
203 base melee def on a mage, up against Caul/VoD critters = no defense at all, even buffed. What it does = is dead mage, not to mention a total waste of credits. Yep, some people have no clue when they make a mage... and this guy is a Monarch who gives advice to his followers? Geez, 500+ gimped followers I imagine. Sad. :(

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Hemorhage:

Level 170 is a FAR cry from 117 lol. There's only about 14 Billion XP difference. hehe... and 402HP on that 170 also = Mage, because my Archer of Level 208 which is Maxed out has 345HP, with just over 50 Billion XP.

Level 95 with 305HP = Mage. We were discussing Melee. ;)

Also, yes it was "supposed" to be a July based patch debate, but certain people (of which I'm also guilty) decided to turn it into The Vault for a while to get to the bottom of some key points, which, actually DO have to do with the July patch, as it was all based on the extra damage of War Magic, and people not having enough health to survive it. :)

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Heideggar:

Like I said, I have no desire to continue our discussion, and even now more than ever after speaking with a couple people on MT (Oh, did I mention I have toons there also? hehe), and they told me to stay CLEAR of Heideggar, as he posts all sorts of rubbish on the vault, and usually gets his facts all wrong. These people are good friends of mine, I've known them for years, and they've been on MT for those years while I spent most of my time on another server. If they say that about you, being old-timers on MT, it's good enough for me.

So trying not to be too harsh: Go away! You annoy me....