Tell us what you think of the July Letter to the Players!

[Ibn]

Closing thread as it has turned into a venue for personal attacks.

Please use this space to give us your feedback on the July Letter to the Players (http://ac.turbinegames.com/index.php?page_id=253).

[Renegade Knight]

That was the shortest Letter to Players ive ever read...all i can say is...FINALLY WE GET OUR MISSLE AEGIS....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KPD157]

Might actually have to try Crippling blow again and see how it fares against Critical strike ehehhe :)

I still Think rending will most likely be the primary way to destroy things but I could carry less wands for those Rendings that are rarely used and replace with Critical or Crippling ;)

Neat additions to July Turbine ;)

[Mortal]

Can we have arc trajectory life bolts?

[Paraduck]

Maybe it's time to dust off my mage. :o Should be fun.

Regarding the level 7 streak damage increase: I don't feel that it would be a good idea because of the PvP impacts. Perhaps, if it does need increasing, it could only affect PvM? With level 7 prots, major wards, and an Aegis, they usually do around 25-40 damage. IMO, that's enough for a projectile firing at that speed, and certainly good for a finishing move against an opponent.

[Syrlacc]

Good stuff, though it's too bad you had to delay the crafting quests, I was looking forward to those. Maybe the increase in war magic DOT will help mages a bit in competing with other classes when it comes to getting quest kills.

I was wondering if you have any plans to increase the HP or defenses on some of the critters with the increases in DOT - as seen on VT, people are leveling extremely quickly, which indicates to me that players are able to take on critters that provide very generous amounts of XP at their level. Of course buff bots don't help, especially now that they can bane armor other players are still wearing. Any plans to alleviate this problem?

[Hemorhage]

ok updating the damage from a war spell to land on a monster to 500% is the prettiestes thang i have ever heard.

so instead of me hitting a VOD tumerok for 1100 (with an assault orb--non crit). i will be hitting for 2500 nice with a CS orb. nice.

i think Gman will know a new tier of pain now.

[Immortal_Haze]

Mage love? I thought that was forbidden! :P (j/k btw)

<3 war changes

[Holey]

Originally posted by Hemorhage
ok updating the damage from a war spell to land on a monster to 500% is the prettiestes thang i have ever heard.

so instead of me hitting a VOD tumerok for 1100 (with an assault orb--non crit). i will be hitting for 2500 nice with a CS orb. nice.

i think Gman will know a new tier of pain now.

Er, I thought the 500% was only with CB, now you'll Crit a lot more often with the CS and for more, but not 6x

I read this as: If a VOD mob crits you, you're going to the LS, period. (assuming a vuln)

My tinker impaired melee quietly weeps :p

[Red al-Boom]

Take all the time you need for the Billing Migration. The last thing anyone needs is one, or more, lost accounts!

Keep up the good work.

Red

[Merubin]

I like that golem's look :)

My mage will probably be getting even more use out of his critical strike wand next month! If you're updating Aerlinthe with new monsters, could some of them have new trophy drops? Even something like a yellow banderling mask instead of a green one for example.. was a bit disappointed with that aspect of the Marae Lassel update, lots of new monsters with no reason to kill them :)

[Madman_Lc]

Quote 'You will be able to grant this property to an item that has been imbued and/or tinkered, but you can’t add an imbue after having added this property.'

Will we be able to still add tinks after the Aegis property?

[Arcane]

I'm disappointed in the missle aegis. I will stick to using my racial/shield setup. If it was to be similar to what melee's give up it should have lowered my overall AL (like an imbue with imperil) not lower my skill.

[Ibn]

Originally posted by Madman_Lc
Quote 'You will be able to grant this property to an item that has been imbued and/or tinkered, but you can’t add an imbue after having added this property.'

Will we be able to still add tinks after the Aegis property?

Non-imbue tinks, yes.

[Hunter]

if you want some instant tradeskill love (i know i do!!!!!!!!)

increase the drop rate of gromnie teeth!

I camp swamp and ash spawns, and kill about 50-200 of each a day and i have found that right now its about 1/50 to 1/70.

This requires extreme amounts of time to get 3 teeth (1 or each trade) for each week.

Maybe even expand this quest by adding new teeth.

by upping the drop rate it gives some love and makes an exisiting quest more worthwhile.

edit:
BTW: war changes = <3 !
keep that coming!!!!!

[Winter]

Lately the monthly events have been really cool. I hope this LTTP is just a poor one. It looks like a filler between turbine nation and the billing system update. *yawn*

[lyvani]

> Improved War Magic Critical Hits

What about Lifebolts?

I have a young Martyr-mage that's loads of fun to play. Kills slow, yes, but still fun.

Any chance that these changes will be applied to Lifebolts in the near future?

And I agree with Mortal, arc lifebolts would be great ;)

[Signalerror]

"We would like to update Aerlinthe in a manner similar to the recent Marae Lassel update. Landscape hunting on Aerlinthe will likely be revamped to better suit mid to high level characters. The Lady Aerfalle quest may have minor cosmetic changes, such as tweaks to the creatures in the various dungeons associated with the quest, but we do not expect to make any major revisions to the quest mechanics."

For the love of asheron please dont! Aerlinthe is fine just the way it is. I have always liked Aerlinthe because of its spawns and its level of difficulty.

Maybe you could add a new land portion onto the top of it, like a newly exposed part of the island due to The mountian's constant activity.

You could place all the new high level content on the new portion of the island :D

I just dont see why everything has to be changed :(

[Hunter]

I somewhat agree with Signalerror.

back in the day Aerfalle was impossible because of monster/tree lag

I do not want to see that again, espeacilly in quest regions

And last months change on AL i loath. All the new trees and spawns, on my low bandwidth connections, im often get stuck, which was not a problem before. Honestly, I can;t figure out why 2 months ago you'll removes tons of trees for lag reasons, but a patch later fill AL with them!

So as Signalerror said if you male aerfalle changes, pls tread lighter than AL's changes.

[Vitae Boy]

WOOT!!!

I will be looking forward to critting again! I'm going to have to find my CS and CB wands again. I might have to clean my mule off to do it though. Looking forward to seeing big numbers that aren't reducing my health.

I'm somewhat disappointed that the trade skill quests were moved to August. I was really looking forward to those, but you seem to be busy make life better for us in other ways. I guess I can wait another month.

I like that you are updating Lin. I grew up in Lin and had a lot of fun there. I just hope it doesn't become crowded.

The aegis missle weapons are definately good. Being spelled to death HURTS!!! The melee bonus reduction will hurt, but I think it will be worth it. Will the max percent be like a normal tinker or an imbue?

Yay for war magic changes!!! :D

[KsBabe]

Thank you for the ageis on bows, because with war spells from critters getting harder we need all the help we can get! Hopefully they will absorb most of it, because the hellions and baikas can one shot me already and with a 500% increase I wouldnt stand a chance against them.
As for the CB for mages, thank you for the increase and the little love that you gave the mages in next month's patch will be great for them.
One question though, the update to Aerlinthe Island, will we also a update to the timer on the repair golem? Three hours is a long time to wait for it to respawn and it is still one of the most active quests on AC.
Other than that ty ty ty again for the mage love and missle weapon update. I love them both!

[The Darkness]

Will the non-CS enhanced base rate of war magic crits still be 5%?

Cheers

[Zestryl]

What ever happened to the new Monarchy Leadership rolls?

[Mather_HG]

Will the Aegis affect take up a tinker? And will it be able to blow up the weapon?

Also... the 500% crit is a bit much. Mages already do perfectly fine in Caul, why make it so chars such as myself will never be able to get a kill? Most non-mage chars already rely heavily on mages for vulns in the caul... now mages won't even need melee/missle chars to survive (not like they did before). With regards to giving the crit bonuses to monsters... why? Caul monsters chain cast enough, with huge crits like that the only viable solution is Magic D spec (*cough* which you usually see in mages *cough*)... now both in PVP and PVM? Sigh. I liked last patch better... though I didn't like the destruction of the Weeping XBow with the nerf bat.

/rant :mad:

[Evangeline]

"Again, the three changes listed below will affect only War Magic spells landed in combat on monsters and War Magic spells cast by monsters on players."

eeek! those biakas can already two-shot me with war. but, I love the trade-off! :) :cool: time to beef up my magic defense!

[verdant_force]

crimson hit it head on. only thing i would like to add is that there should be hollow and phantom spikes for thrown weapons.

on a related tw note, how about a quest that allows you to buy crushing blow spikes from a special vendor?

[pacesetter]

wow! finally some mage love !!

my bow guy will be the buff bot and my mage comes out of retirement!!


THANK YOU TURBINE!

gonna be interesting to see how many times the baddies crit me. are their crits figured the same way as ours? If so the baddies that cast 7's are gonna be overpowered.

thx for the bow fixes, too! my lil archers are gonna be pleased!

lin: our allegiance town!

:)

Do up the lvl 7 streak damage. It's gonna be the way to beat archers after the aegis type bows come out. everything else is too slow or easily avoided.

I'm happy with the changes. My mage might finally be on a level to kill alongside archers and melees rather than just vuln for them and never getting to loot anything.

:p

[Ibn]

Originally posted by Hunter
And last months change on AL i loath. All the new trees and spawns, on my low bandwidth connections, im often get stuck, which was not a problem before. Honestly, I can;t figure out why 2 months ago you'll removes tons of trees for lag reasons, but a patch later fill AL with them!

So as Signalerror said if you male aerfalle changes, pls tread lighter than AL's changes.

The new trees, you are referring to the Burun swamp areas? They were not intended to be added to Aphus Lassel. If you can provide coordinates (PM to me is fine) of these areas we are working to remove them.

I'm not sure what you mean by new spawns, the spawns on AL haven't been touched in a while.

[EvilElvis]

War casting mobs are already the most powerful mobs in the game. Do they need any increased damage tweaks?

And the missile aegis is really a joke. Can't be used with weeping/hollow so it's substandard for pvp, and I can't think of very many times I'd ever give up 40+ melee defense for a small decrease in spell damage.

[Vlad Morbius]

You obviously have no real concept of what really is important to players. To be honest i find it almost insulting that you continue to waste valuable programing time revamping useless things like the latest rebalancing of "Lin"! Who in thier right mind cares....no one will waste time hunting there when you can easily level from 20 to 40 in a Matron dungeon in an evening or two.
It seemes that you mindlessly drudge along hoping nobody notices that this facelift amounts to zero benefit to players and zero benefit to newcomers. Spend your time improving failed character templates such as missile, instead of masking a long called for fix with a petty coverup and mage love. This class has long been too strong and and others too weak. You need to put more effort into correcting the mechanics of certain templates.

I mean i loved the change to hollow weapons but it is totally useless to my bow character as it is impossible to keep arrow stock high enough to make this viable.

These boards and these suggestions mean nothing if they are not reviewed and acted upon. I mean if there are bigger plans give us hope, i thought that was the whole purpose of these letters.

[Magik Brute of]

About time we got some mage love.

[Ibn]

Originally posted by The Darkness
Will the non-CS enhanced base rate of war magic crits still be 5%?

The base rate of war magic critical hits is not being changed.

[Ibn]

Originally posted by Zestryl
What ever happened to the new Monarchy Leadership rolls?

You mean additional allegiance officers? They are In Concept, I do not know when we will be able to implement them.

[Ibn]

Originally posted by Mather_HG
Will the Aegis affect take up a tinker? And will it be able to blow up the weapon?

No, and no.

[Crimson-Ghost]

How can people be so naiive, isn't it obvious that the mage love was intended to be a shiny bauble to distract the masses (i.e: 90% of the player base... or magerons call as we all know is the reality of things) while things still remain as broken and unbalanced as they once were.

How easy it is to appease the masses....

[Jugu]

You have got to be kidding.

Do please explain the fun in the possibility of getting one-shot by half the Caul population? That's cool, not only shall we cater to the bleating Mage majority (who did just fine thank you very much), but we'll also make it doubly hard for every other class to survive anywhere with decent high-lvl mobs.

Magic D is all very well (and I have it fairly high), but as anyone knows it isn't 100% reliable and it seems it's only going to take that one you don't resist to be kissing the LS. Oh, and from critters with around 7k more hps than you in the first place.

I dunno, seems pretty laughable to me. I'm sure looking forward to the boards being filled with all manner of indignant outpourings post-patch, if it's implemented anything near how it reads.

[Heideggar]

Verdantine: I have almost no interest in this server. Only things that are negative about this are the number of names taken by known people to create profit by selling those names to people. Kinda sad, but hard to stop. The other is the amount of resources spent (unknown to me) that went into getting Verdantine up and running, plus the bugs, plus Verdantine causing problems on other servers. Otherwise, it sounded like many had a good time there rerolling and hanging with other people.


Billing Migration: Please take your time. Set up the FAQs and be staffed heavy for that day you launch this lol. All ya need is one mishap, and everything hits the fan. Hope this goes well. It would be really helpful after all these years to have a slick way of paying, unsubscribing, finding out problems, etc. You guys seem to be getting better at grasping what's necessary to get things like this running smoothly, and I'm patient in this respect. Identity theft isn't something I look forward to. Thanks for being careful.


Turbine Nation: All I know is AC. Everything else isn't even looked at unless there's like bikinis involved.


War Magic Improvments: I had read about you guys proposing some improvements so that crits aren't less than normal damage, and I thought that was cool. Making it PvM-only was even better, but...

Being able to do this to creatures is fantastic, but... I'm just worried that it may be too much, and/or that when I go fight some dude wielding a Crushing Blow + Crushing Shame Quest Boss we get wiped out cuz no one can stand getting hit for 250-300 a shot lol, unless they've spent a chunk of xp into it. I hope this has been tested thoroughly though. You know how many people _already_ think mages are beyond killable, and "own everything in sight", and I'd rather not that be too huge. Diversity is nice. Though, it takes more to play a mage than any other class : )


Aegis Effect on Missle Weapons: I can't believe how bad you guys made a good idea. ( Edit:: Saw your answer in a response Ibn) First, you should state if the adding of this Aegis Effect counts as a tinker, and the chances at which it will land when applied. Second, wtf, melee D penalty!? Is this the same for Aegis Shield? NOPE. Melees have full advantage of their melee D when wielding an aegis, they just don't have the physical damage reduction when they actually _do_ get hit. Missle people already don't have a freaking shield, and now you want to lower their melee D too!? seriously horrible. I see melees vulning magic casting creatures, pulling out an aegis, and going to town on VoD virindi and such. How's an archer suppose to do similar things with you lowering their melee D for this!?

I'm sure some will do this, like tank missle people, but... ugh. I know, I know, it's not even ingame yet, but I can tell ya now: Chalk this up to the disappointment one would get going to that PK-only dungeon ya put in a while back. And ya know what? It's on a loot missle weapon, which means that if a missle person could actually hit me, I could pull out my shield and heal through any and all damage they punny stick puts out. Maybe not all, but hell if it could actually do enough damage to eventually kill me. Fact is, Aegis Shield can be wielded with Weeping Melee Weapons, you give no benefits like this to missle people wielding weeping missle weapons. That's dumb, since it's in PvP that it's the most prevalent.


Updating Lin: Whoopdie Do

Updating Singularity Weapons: Whoopdie Do


Sounds like you guys are putting all the good stuff in the X-Pack. Thanks *rolls eyes*.


IN DEVELOPMENT:

Crafting Quests: Good, the more the better, but again, more push-backs, and stuff taken off the Development Schedule. Will there ever be a time when things get pushed UP instead of BACK!?!? This in itself makes me nervous about Turbine getting anything they say done.

Updating Aerlinthe: Devs, I solo'ed this quest when I was lvl 71 _many_ years ago, back before you had changed anything about the quest and there was no scroll. Back before there were 7's, tinkered armor, and things like this. You may want to consider changing some things to create somewhat of a challenge for your "high levels". Tough creatures doesn't necessarily mean tough quests. I kill 2 things on that quest.

That quest used to have semi-tough creatures for the levels of the groups, on a rather fast spawn, possibility of being surrounded, dispell traps, doors that were hard to pick, and things of this nature. Almost everyone went as a group, and as a large group. Was kinda fun, just some thoughts on that. I think many look forward to the old days when Aerlinthe first came out. It's nostalgic, please be careful and do this right.


"Content Update: Three Crystals Quest
After the June Letter to the Players, priorities and schedules changed and this content revision has been pushed out past August. We plan to revise the Fenmalain, Caulnalain, and Shendolain Crystal quests and quest rewards to make them more appropriate for their various level ranges." - Turbine

rofl, see what I mean! wtf are you guys doing that all this stuff gets pushed back? lol


I'm glad to see that housing is beyond your guys' ability to fix. What about casinos? Maybe you guys are severly understaffed? Maybe all the cool stuff is going to the X-pack? Don't know how to prioritize things quite right to the players? I dunno.


I'm glad you guys are trying, and are busy, but when I keep seeing stuff get pushed back, and stuff that I don't even consider important (Three Crystals Quest was dumb when it came out, it's dumb now lol) gets pushed back... geez. Making it hard for me to come up with stuff to do when I log on. I help my followers do what they want, and I usually log soon after.


I know you don't tell everything you're going to put ingame, but it's really hard to understand how Turbine works out prioritizing certain aspects of their game(s), and the amount of effort they put into monthly updates, network issues, and pulling or pushing resources from/to other games.

The fact that Jessica, one of the lead people at Turbine, can fall "out of the loop" pretty easily, is discerning.


Thanks for War Magic improvements though. About all I can actually give you credit for doing. We'll see in a couple weeks if you did them right. I'm betting no, but I'm hoping it is. Looking at those numbers made me fully realize how restricted war magic was compared to other weapons, but each template has their advantages. Just hoping this damage improvement doesn't create chaos in that department, cuz that means time spent not improving casinos, mansions, lag, fellowship spells (something you haven't done **** with in MONTHS), archers in PvP (that aegis <stuff> above is bogus, like those hookable portals), and a dozen other things.

[lechie]

Ummm remind me how aegis effect works again please?

Im probably mixing it up with natural drain resistance but I thought it was strength and endurace based, which wouldnt be much use to many missile characters. Please tell me Im wrong.

500% damage seems a little high on magic crits, I see even mages complaining after being repeatedly 1 shotted by mobs. Time will tell either way.

[Dotcher]

You obviously have no real concept of what really is important to players. To be honest i find it almost insulting that you continue to waste valuable programing time revamping useless things like the latest rebalancing of "Lin"! Who in thier right mind cares....no one will waste time hunting there when you can easily level from 20 to 40 in a Matron dungeon in an evening or two. I do hope that comment wasn't serious. With an expansion on the way, and the low-levels on VT, low- and medium-level content is more important than it has been in a while. Not everyone is a high level, and not everyone wants to be.Ummm remind me how aegis effect works again please?
Based off magic defense, I think.

[TheKnight]

Improved War Magic Critical Hits

Starting in July, imbue and slayer effects for War Magic will scale will scale from minimum effectiveness at 125 to maximum effectiveness at 360.

You got a typo there Ibn as you have will scale twice. :p

As for the other stuff in the letter (long reply):

It's a bummer to see the Three Crystal Quests get pushed back so far, as I was looking forward to going on them, but it is nice to see the singularity weapons quest get some updating.

I see no mention whatsoever of the "salvage backpack" that was mentioned awhile back, what has happend to this idea? I thought it was an excellent idea and was excited to read about it, and was really bummed out when it dropped off the "to do list".

Aegis effect for bow users is nice, and upping damage on war magic is nice for mages, but what about all the melee users out there? Both mages/archers blow melee users away damage wise and this update to war magic is just going to further put that divide up and make it even more evident that mages still own this game hands down.


Crippling Blow for War Magic currently scales from adding 50% of the spells damage on critical hits to adding 100% at maximum effectiveness. In July, the maximum effectiveness will be increased to adding up to 500% of the spell’s damage.

Can you guys please explain to me why Mages will be getting such an insane boost of power, even more so now with this july upcoming update while melee users are getting left out yet again.
If you gotto any other game out there it breaks down like this:

Mages: Very powerful attacks, but poor melee defenses and can't stand up to high hitting creatures physical damage wise.

Archers: Stronger then melee's but only from a distance, have poor melee defense/not able to use a shield in battle.

Melees: Have the strongest physical attack of any class and devestate physical strong monsters. Downside is weak against magic casting monsters.


So please explain to me why it is now going to be:

Mages: Do the most damage in game now and even more so with the july changes.

Archers: Are getting a melee specific shield against magic damage, WITHOUT needing a shield and STILL outdamage melee's by far.

Melees: Get stuff like The Chorizite Veined Shield
which has horrible base stats of:

AL: 310
Slash: Ave (310)
Pierce: Ave (310)
Blud: Ave (310)
Fire: Ave (310)
Cold: Ave (264)
Acid: Ave (310)
Elec: Ave (310)

+2 to magic def!<--- this is a joke right? +20 I could understand but +2?? And is unenchantable!

Chorizite to begin with in the game is used to make disspell potions to remove harmful magic debuffs, so WHY is this shield NOT reducing the magic damage taken overall like the Aegis Shield? And if you REALLY want to get technical then if I drink a Chorizite Potion, I should not be able to buff myself using this new shield logic as my whole body would be "unenchantable" for awhile before I gotto the bathroom next. :rolleyes:

I'm glad your making changes to quests like the Singularity Weapons, Cooking/Alchemy, Town updates etc. But when you guys start to rewrite the ruleset for mages/archers I get alittle mad, as they are the LAST classes that need an edge in combat.
I can play as a melee tank in AC2 and do extremly well, while I can't take on alot of magic casters at once at least there I can take on monsters without worrying to much about the damage i'm doing as it is balanced there.

I'll give you an example from your very own game AC2:

Hero Sword Level 50+
256 - 320 Damage

Broad Sword Level 10+
32 - 44

Blows away anything close to what we melee's haveto deal with here in AC1. Any other game you goto and the melee toons do the most damage hands down out of any class, but not in THIS game oh lord no. Here it's based on how many "credits" you spend and supposedly the more you spent the higher your damage is,but that's untrue as well as just look at Unarmed Combat and how that still outdamages most melee weapons.

So I ask turbine to seriously reconsider it's possition on this, as this game does NOT need even MORE powerful mages/archers and to have this game TOTALLY tip the scale in one direction to make One class base the "be all to end all" choice.

I still don't see the core issues being addressed namely:

I. Sticky Melee. This is STILL in the game after over 4+ years of AC1 being out and this has NEVER once been officially commented in any letter to the players, or even an ETA on when the playerbase could expect a fix to this serious bug.

II. Disapearnig/Invisible Bug at Villas/Mansions

This has been a problem since housing came into play, and is still not fixed. This is just unacceptable to have this bug still be so rampent after all these years. Exspecially now that we are paying more for this game, yet core bug problems are still abound.

III. Buying expensive items/pyreal stacks/backpack limit

I can't belive all these years later and this is even an issue still honestly. Whenever you gotto buy an bulk of expensive items you need to make room in your main backpack for all those blasted pyreals. So WHY can't we players just put in our tradenotes into the Sell windows, add in what we wish to buy like Plats,tapers and just hit buy WITHOUT having to cash in the tradenotes first?? Again nothing but fusteration here.


IV. New bane spells expiring. Ok I HAVETO ask you guys at turbine something. Just who exactally does Q&A for you people? Because it is clear as day that whoever did the Q&A for the new item buffs:

1. Did NOT have their speakers on

2. Never talked in the chat window

3. Enjoyed seeing 200 lines of spam a second which floods your chat buffer out totally, and you miss any and EVERY tell you get, even if it's an Envoy messaging you about help you requested and having to say "please repeat your last comment" Item Magic Spam.

Seriously I want names of whoever did Q&A so I can write to your corporate offices and express my total dissatisfaction with that department. I almost blew my expensive speakers out because of this sloppy mess and now haveto play with volume either very low or off totally to make sure my system does not blow out on me. And to make it worse I see no mention of this being fixed in the letter to the players.

You guys hotfixed for lesser issues but yet make your loyal paying customers deal with this sloppy mess because someone at Q&A screwed up. I mean seriously HOW can someone at Q&A MISS THIS? :

Impenatrability has expired on Helmet
Impenatrability has expired on Gloves
Impenatrability has expired on Armor
Impenatrability has expired on Leggings
Impenatrability has expired on Shield
WHOOOOM!
Bludgeoning Bane has expired on Helmet
Bludgeoning Bane has expired on Gloves
Bludgeoning Bane has expired on Armor
Bludgeoning Bane has expired on Leggings
Bludgeoning Bane has expired on Shield
WHOOOOM!
Piercing Bane has expired on Helmet
Piercing Bane has expired on Gloves
Piercing Bane has expired on Armor
Piercing Bane has expired on Leggings
Piercing Bane has expired on Shield
WHOOOOM!
Flame Bane has expired on Helmet
Flame Bane has expired on Gloves
Flame Bane has expired on Armor
Flame Bane has expired on Leggings
Flame Bane has expired on Shield
WHOOOOM!
Cold Bane has expired on Helmet
Cold Bane has expired on Gloves
Cold Bane has expired on Armor
Cold Bane has expired on Leggings
Cold Bane has expired on Shield
WHOOOOM!
Acid Bane has expired on Helmet
Acid Bane has expired on Gloves
Acid Bane has expired on Armor
Acid Bane has expired on Leggings
Acid Bane has expired on Shield
WHOOOOM!
Lighting Bane has expired on Helmet
Lighting Bane has expired on Gloves
Lighting Bane has expired on Armor
Lighting Bane has expired on Leggings
Lighting Bane has expired on Shield
WHOOOOM!



I'm sorry but this is just inexcusable, and a slap in the face to your paying customers. Mistakes will happen I can understand but to MAKE your loyal paying customers suffer through this is just plain wrong.

I hope you guys at turbine fix the item magic spells expiring among the other major bugs in this game, so we can start to enjoy this game again fully, and not haveto play without sound,killing off any imersion factor that's left or use "workarounds" because of bugs still in the game client.
Overall I'm very disapointed, now not only will mages do even more damage, but I will die even faster in VOD from monsters landing critical drains/war spells on me.

This is slowly turning into something else and not the old AC I used to play and love so dearly. If this keeps up at the current rate of drastic changes to the core of this game (which is what makes AC fun, it's core gameplay) then I have a feeling I won't be the only long time vet player to leave, and not return.

I've left before because of clan problems/personal reasons, but the way you guys at turbine seem hell bent on doing whatever you deem appropriate to this game regardless how many loyal customers say "don't do this" yet you STILL go ahead and implament those changes. This is becoming less and less like the Old AC golden days I remember and more and more like what happened with Horizons. And you can see how well they did...


Regards

[Crimson-Ghost]

*sigh*

I know its typical to come on the boards and whine about updates but I have to say that these updates are unacceptable to me. This aegis fix does nothing to balance archers in PvP, you know this is the case because you stated it isnt the "end-all fix".

My main arguement is why would ANYBODY use a loot generated bow thats main purpose is to have a small magic d bonus with a big penalty to melee d and will have a significantly smaller damage output than a weeping bow? The problem with archers is not the damage they take from wars, the problem with archers is that they cant hit ANYTHING. The main function of a aegis is to reduce magic damage, for a melee this is essential because you are limited to close-combat where it is often necessary to tank wars spells. However, as a mage/missile you have the benefit of range (which is the ONLY benefit of being an archer at this point) which greatly reduces the need to tank wars. As a character capable of ranged attack, you aren't primarily concerned with defence and the ability to take damage as you are with killing your target before they can get close enough to inflict said damage. I mean, that is essentially the entire premise behind archers and ranged attack in reality (I know, don't worry this won't become a reality vs game arguement)

It was suggested by the players, as a matter of fairness and equality, that archers should have some kind of magic defence bonus to make them equal to melees. This was stated with the hopeful intention that said bonus would be added to weeping bows so that archers could still be somewhat effective damage wise and have the added bonus of reduced magic damage. By making the magic defence bonus only available to loot weapons you make archers choose between having a small defence bonus and being somewhat compitant in damage output (which is not fair since melees get BOTH aegis and weeping with no penalty... I think the melee d penalty is enough to justify having the bonus to weeping bow) Although the theory of a magic d boost for archers is noble, it is far from the main concern of missile characters. The problem is not to reduce damage input, it is the ability to effectively do more damage output to enemy targets. What good does it do archers to give them a small boost to defence when they still have the same problem with landing an arrow on the target? So now that means ill only have to heal maybe a few times less a night (on the very low chance I evade the maxed out mages war skill with the new imbue). Does it mean my archer will have any better chance of killing the target? Marginally at best, mainly because it only very slightly increases my lifespan. If you were to put this ability (with the melee penalty in tact) on the weeping weapon, or make it a choice to imbue your weapon bow with said ability (so archer who are primarily concerned with fighting melees can stay the same, and those who want to fight mages can take the melee penalty), I, as well as others would have no problem with it.

If you want to fix missile than improve the tracking like you said you would months ago. I don't see how this promise sort of got swept under the carpet by you guys. If you have no intention of improving patheting please state so, so I can give up leveling my archer and ever having hopes for being competitive. One other small change that could help archers would be the ability to strafe while firing. This, I believe, would not have so much of an impact on PvM but would atleast make things a bit easier for archers. I'm not entirely sure how this would pan out in realtime when implemented but if it was effective enough, this might be all missile characters need to help them land their shots. For that reason alone I think its worthwhile for turbine to investigate this possibility instead of trying to incorperate an entire new dynamic (increased pathing or different ammunition types or arc equivalents).

Although the changes to hollow weapons did make the hollow bow quite deadly and nearly viable there is still one small thing keeping players for using them. The fact that you have to waste a hour or so to go harvest the materials needed to make the arrows. The rate at which a archer burns arrows and the time it takes to get the raw materials to make the hollow arrows pretty much takes away the viability from the hollow bow as an effective pvp alternative to weeping. This is the same reason nobody ever used the caul/shen bows, the fact that archers can burn through 1000 arrows in less than an hour (even more in pvp since you never land a shot) combined with the effort it takes to make specialty arrows (flesh ripper, hollow and crystal.. NOT Greaters/Deadlies.. those are fine) essentially makes quest bows with speciality ammunition worthless.

I can say at this point that my hopes for any balance in pvp is really fading, as is my confidence in Turbine's ability to listen to the players and actively make changes based upon feedback. Over the time if spent posting here, I have made numerous suggestions and I have seen many great suggestions that I suppose turbine never deemed important enough to address. When you first announced that you planned on having this ability as a imbue, I knew right then and there that it was going to be pointless. I think you really need to consider what you are doing content wise in the updates, I'm sure the 20-40 category of players is very concerned with balancing out lin and not sitting in the 20+ matron hive making 7mil xp per hour. The reality here is that the game at this point is so easy at low levels that people blow right by them by sitting in the same dank pits for the first 50 levels of their characters existance. Although it is a noble idea to improve old quests and make them worthwhile once again, you need to consider, in the grand scheme of the game, the actual importance to doing so.

I think i'm all typed out for now, but I have to say that I fear after another lackluster patch or two I may not stay with the game i've loved and played for the past 4 years. Please consider the thoughts and ideas I have posted here sincerely, because I know that I am not alone in these opinions as many friends and guild mates of mine have these concerns.

A final note, I'd really like to stress the reality that updating content for the lower levels (which I assume your cocerned with for when the expansion comes out) will really be a wasted effort. When new players come to the game, they are going to be greeted by seasoned veterans who will quickly dispatch them to the usual hotspots (which, unfortunately, Lin is not a member of). Even on a fresh server like VT (which I have been playing adamently) Lin is essentially a ghost town. Even though it boasts a great leveling spoton VT like the oldschool citadel, it is still almost completely deserted. So please, reconsider the necessity to making benign improvements designed for a demographic that most people spend less than a day or two in.

[Jet-eye-nite]

Should be good for the mages , and about time they feel alittle benny from the cost of being a mage. On a lighter note I am perplexed about why you speak of an issue(s) then shelf them.
:rolleyes:

[Lokania]

Dotcher says:

"I do hope that comment wasn't serious. With an expansion on the way, and the low-levels on VT, low- and medium-level content is more important than it has been in a while. Not everyone is a high level, and not everyone wants to be."

I think VT has shown everyone just exactly how useless revamping the towns is to lower levels. How long exactly did the newbies spend "in town"? One hour? Three? Four? Any more than that and you are kidding yourself.

Also..

I agree with the the posters so far that have stated intelligent and on-target complaints about the lack of content. Especially with Crimison Ghost's first post which was so well stated, then deleted. I guess posts that have such knowledge-based complaints/opinions such as his are such a contrast to the usual whiners someone couldn't take the heat. You ask for feedback, you get it.

[Vlad Morbius]

Oh please!! Go run around Lin, or any town for that matter and tell me how many players you come across LOL! There are much more important issues to concern themselves with and if you look at the creature map you will notice just how many areas are already tailored for those levels, almost a quarter of the world and why, 20 to 40 makes up a very small percentage of player base.
It's not about leveling fast my comments were geared towards the more important issues that are being ignored while trivial things like this are taking place.

[Jugu]

TheKnight, I think I love you :D

[Drakier]

Looks ok.. I'm still a bit disappointed at the lack of interesting content for mid-high level solo players.

I'm also a little worried about the effect the war magic changes will have on spell casting creatures. I already get pwned enough as it is with many creatures. Buffing their War magic will make it even worlse. I died pretty quick before.. now, its suicide.

[Crimson-Ghost]

Originally posted by Dotcher
I do hope that comment wasn't serious. With an expansion on the way, and the low-levels on VT, low- and medium-level content is more important than it has been in a while. Not everyone is a high level, and not everyone wants to be.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but the reality is that even on VT the low-mid level content is basically ignored. I mean, just look at the fact that Minotaur already hit lvl 126. Heck, after the first day I was lvl 40 a long with my patron K o S as well as many others in our allegiance. I know I may be a power leveler (although I have slowed progress way down since opening day) but regardless, places like white wasp are packed, whereas dungeons like the oldschool citadel in lin are fairly empty. Although it's a nice idea to add content for true n00bies, the reality is, even new players will quickly catch on when the expansion comes out that there are much better places to hunt than the wilderness around lin (even after its tweaked... unless they make static white wasp and brood worker spawns out there).

[Shaolin]

If you were to round up most of my posts in the last few months.........


you would get the exact same sentiment and statements as crimson has.

good job crimson.

[cstanleytech]

Again, the three changes listed below will affect only War Magic spells landed in combat on monsters and War Magic spells cast by monsters on players. War Magic critical hits for Player-vs.-Player (PvP) combat will not change.
Are you sure you want to give chain casting monsters like wisps greater power ?
I mean if you wanted to turn monsters into giant bug zappers its ok but otherwise you might want to rethink letting monsters have the same bonus.

[Vlad Morbius]

This game belongs to mages any other character type has become a waste of time. They are making sure of that. What used to be a game full of endless options has become as predictable as nightfall :mad:
Crimson, TheKnight,Heiddegar speak the real truth! While Turbine sits silent :(

[Crimson-Ghost]

I'd also like to clarify that I absolutely LOVE the lore and content updates of the past few patches... the idea of burun raids and more lugian action is great. I just simply find the failure to fix old game-mechanic problems frustrating beyond belief.

Another quick addition that was posted by Killer Templar on the vn boards. The fact that untrained missile D still gets evades on archers whereas untrained melee d gets no evades vs melees. The fact that missile d is insanely unbalanced is another indicator of the pathetic plight of missile characters....

[fashtas]

I play a mage and I have only ever played a Mage, never anything else

Mages have no issues killing stuff, and frankly we don't need any further DoT increases (Yes we all WANT more! MORE I TELL YOU! But we don't need it)

All I can see the Crit Strike increase options doing is increaseing the number of single hit kills by spell fligning mobs, already the most dangerous mobs in game.
In fact the *ONLY* dangerous mob in game. A level 70 towel wearing un-intelligent monkey worshipper is more dangerous than a level 161 melee mob

I mean a 5k HP mob has a hundred or more opertunities to roll their "crit" than I do. Their crit kills me, mine.... means I kill them in 199 spells rather than 200, yay

[Chupon]

Disregard

[rascal]

500% increase in mob CB!!?!?!?!
OUCH!!! Sounds like a huge increase in one-shot deaths from magic casting mobs :( We are all DOOMED :(

[Chupon]

Question: Are there any monsters already in game that have built in Crippling Blow properties to their war magic?

If not, then this really isn't a problem, you'll just see more 200+ hits, which I can live with.

If even some of the content in VoD, Caul and West dires does have this already built in, it might hurt solo play in those areas.

[Heideggar]

lol, reading some of these posts jogged my memory a bit. Makes me kinda laugh really.

Remember when there were going to be "rares" in creature loot? That was pretty cool huh? End Result: Pushed back

Remember when Mansions were going to be made more worth while? I was excited, there were a lot of good suggestions. End Result: Pushed Back

hehe, I remembe Ibn telling us how much fun Texas Holdem and casinos are, but nothing came about from that.

I remember Turbine saying they'd help Archers in PvP to balance them 8+ months ago (probably a lot more). End Result: Pushed Back

Hell, I still have a bug in my mansion that Turbine knew about, and knew how to fix, but didn't want to spend the time fixing! That was back in early February, possibly January. End Result: Bug not fixed for ~5-6 months.


So, Turbine, how am I suppose to be optomistic about _anything_ you guys do based on the above? Even the above examples are only a small portion of what you guys have really pushed back for _months_ to a year+.


Seriously Turbine, wtf is up?

Updating Lin and stuff like that? Fix Archer PvP and actually have the ability to honestly say that your company accomplished something this month.

I kinda look on these LttP and patches as reasons I keep paying you {Turbine} money. In my eyes, you are not spending my money wisely.

Please, put my monthly subscription charges towards good.

[Gerient]

LOL %500?

I hope that is PVM only.. did anyone consider the PVP aspect of that?

DT will be vacant as mages will one shot anything.

[Mogosh]

July Lttp
All imbues and slayer bonuses scale their effectiveness based on the skill level of the player. Currently, imbues and slayer bonuses, when used with War Magic, scale from minimum effectiveness at 150 base War Magic skill to maximum effectiveness at 400 base War Magic skill. Starting in July, imbue and slayer effects for War Magic will scale will scale from minimum effectiveness at 125 to maximum effectiveness at 360.


Looks to me more like a bug-fix than "an additional change". Base war caps at 381, there was NOBODY at 400 base war (or are you designing the game mechanics with monsters in mind too?).

To those who fear they will be one-shot by Caul monsters:
- monsters don't have CB wands, even if they do crits.
- Also, I understand that the range will be changed from "50-100" to "50-500". If I understand right, +500% will be extreme, the average being more like +275%.

I still don't see CB becoming as useful as CS, even if the base crit chance is 10%. This surprises me somehow, because I would think that CB needs to have bigger average DoT compared to CS to become attractive, considering the "damage waste" if the critical hit on an already severely wounded creature.

Other than that, I believe that War magic improvements at the cap is overpowered. Mages did not need it of course (they already cream Caul and make insane XP).

War magic has always been the anchor of the game (regarding damage) since the introduction of 7s. This major slide (+36.2% average DoT at base 360 according to the published numbers) is much bigger than the introduction of imbues. I hope you guys know what you're going.

[Ivy_Windchaser]

I want the Devs to reassess the possibility of putting in a "salvaging" skill that's free to all races.

This idea was mentioned in the "in concept" section of the letter to the players several months back. Since then, it has disappeared off the radar and has received no further mention in letters to the players.

I want this idea revisited. At present, my level 126 triple-spec'd Aluvian mage has to give up a more viable and useful skill (lockpick) so that she may salvage for full value of items.

Please, reconsider this concept!

[Vlad Morbius]

You think maybe their boss has a mage character LOL! That's a joke guys...surely you can take a joke :D

If you don't think mages are overpowered why don't you try this...create 2 maxed out characters, one mage, one melee or missile c/w infinite skills and PvP em or take them soloing in Caul or VoD for an hour, then we'll compare death count lol!

[the_slept]

Will the CS/CB changes to war magic also affect life bolts?

If not, why not? They currently behave in similar fashion to war bolts, in regard to crits, and they probably deserve as much tweeking as war bolts do.

[MaxV_FF]

I'm a little bit worried about the new crits... perhaps I just read it wrong.

It is already possibly for a monster to hit a vulned player for well over 250 damage in one shot. Given that most seasoned mages have between 300-350 health, won't we be seeing a LOT more one shot kills if the monsters also see this damage increase? To me, not having a change to get in a heal, or to be skillful against a mob and still come out on top, and instead just be killed, no matter what my skills are, is not a fun thing.

Just to clarify, I get down to 15-30 health on a regular basis when soloing caul... and it is a lot of fun, because I have to keep on my toes constantly. If the damage is increased a bunch, then I will basically have to stop hunting by myself.

-MaxV

[Dotcher]

Yes, the power-gamers have already hit 126 on VT, and those looking to hit the high levels as quickly as they can will have raced past the mid-level content.

But just because they happen to be the most vocal on the boards, doesn't mean they're the only players around. I know of several groups who are taking VT slowly, doing things the old way, and taking the time to work their way through the content. I'm doing it myself, when I have time to play, and I'm having a blast.

The point I'm making is that just because a large number of players prefer to reach the high levels quickly, not all of us do. When lower-level towns get updated, they'll get used a little more, as the content is appropiate for *somebody* - as it stands, in most towns, the spawns are way out of whack compared with the local dungeons. That's why they're empty.

Besides, we've been told that marketing is coming (I believe that AC2s has already started) and that there's an expansion pack on its way. Both of those will bring in real newbies - and having some content for them is a good idea, no?

[TheKnight]

Jugu and Vlad,

Thank you very much. It is comforting to know that I am not alone in these views and that for playing for so long at least I among other vets have a solid understanding of how this gameplay works. If turbine implaments these changes for july then I'll pack up and head out as I already get my arse handed to me by countless magical creatures and that's all I need is for them to have an even HIGHER advantage then before.

Being as I'm a melee tank and have always enjoyed playing as such I already knew ahead of time I was not going to be the dominant force here in this game. I knew it back in 2000 when I first started playing and still know it now. Mages have always owned this game front to back and this change in july is going to set that in stone even more so the before. Right now melee's only have about 2% of the entire monster base that they can handle. It breaks down to:

I. Olthoi
II. Tuskers
III. Lugians

And that is about it honestly. Most everything else high level in this game is magic centric and the mages ALREADY own 98% of this game hands down. So WHY in muffin mans name are you guys at turbine giving mages an even GREATER ADVANTAGE when NONE is needed? I see mages tank Olthoi/Tuskers/Lugians and blow away the damage we melee users do. I see mages destroy Armored, Plated, Assialer Tuskers when they where SUPPOSED to be melee friendly and it is a joke now. Mages have NO business taking on enemies that do such massive physical damage, that is supposed to be for melee tanks. And yet I've watched for years as mages blast threw these enemies like a hot knife through butter and then have the STEELIES to complain about not being able to take down a D Lord. OMG! World will end because your lEEt sKilLZ can't take down ONE monster in a game!


And Archers DON'T need an advantage, when they can critical for freaking 2000+ damage per arrow and again just outdamage us melee tanks every single step of the way. I remember back in 2000 when Archers would ONE SHOT the statues when there was the statue invasion. Again melee specific monsters and the MELEES had the hardest time taking these down. Archers have NO business taking down high physical stren monsters. None whatsoever! Archers should do good against half str/half magic monsters. As that is how Archers are based, distance fighting not up close like melee's. An Archer should NEVER be able to stand point blank at a monster and kill them with a Bow. The fact that they can and do in the game proves a further fact that archers are overpowered as a class, same as mages.

Melee's are just plain screwed. Not only do we haveto use items/jewelry/prebuff orbs/wands and switch between those JUST to freaking buff, but our downtime is even higher then Mages and Archers COMBINED. Tank Melee's need to have these in order to even come close to compete with the other classes:

I. High AL Armor (Tinkerd if possible)
II. Rendering Weapon (next to impossible to fight without one)
III. Casting Stein for Stam to Mana transfer
IV. Health to Mana Orb transfer
V. High AL Shield/D shield/shield with Life Protects
VI. Jewelery/Rings/Bracelets to cover Life/Creature Magic Protects
VII. Ability to make Rations either on main or by trademul, as stam is critical to a melee tank
VIII. Healing skill as you MUST have healing if you pick a Melee Tank to play.

This is just to start for god sakes, and it only get's harder and harder as time goes on. When a melee changes to a casting item we loose our shield and are even MORE vulnerable then mages or archers as our melee d drops tremendously without our one sole advantage, which is our shields.

What do mages need? Nothing but components and a wand. That's it, they have everything they need right at their fingertips. Archers have a MUCH higher melee D level as that is based on quick/cord which Archers are based on. So they will avoid alot more even without a shield.

Melees have a lower melee D/lower magic D and we
Melee's keep getting screwed over time and time again, and it makes playing a melee as your main next to impossible these days, and with your upcoming changes in july this will just further the gap already there. I want to know WHY you are doing this to your loyal fan base? If the AC2 team can balance out the classes properly in a year, you guys can SURLEY do it as well since AC1 has been the around alot longer then AC2. WHY continue to INCREASE the dramatic gap there, and WHY are you not trying to finally BALANCE the classes out properly?

Instead we get this 500% Crit BS for Mages! Oh Boy let's make mages do so much damage that they can blow up freakin mountains with just blinking! But WAIT! Let's ALSO make Monsters cast the same level and TOTALLY Negate any remote chance any melee has of killing Anything in VOD where the best loot drops.

Go ahead and implament these changes, but I for one am tired of being told "powered by the fans" when thousands of people tell you DO NOT PUT THIS IN, what does Turbine DO? When Thousands of DarkTide Players say DO NOT PUT THIS IN, You are RUINING PVP, WHAT DO YOU DO? And now we have been telling you folks at turbine to please for the love of god FIX THE CRITICAL BUGS IN THIS GAME FOR YEARS, And again what does turbine DO? You Open a NEW server when all the old servers lag to hell and back, when mission critical bugs are STILL in this game and people have filed COUNTLESS bug reports and NOTHING gets done about those critical bugs.

You focus on the town of freakin LIN! LIN for God Sakes! The place where people NEVER go, expect back when this game actually HAD a spell economy and there was NO DECAL. You guys make mages even stronger, Allow Archers to have an Aegis WITHOUT needing a shield, but can only be on Loot items, AND Can have an imbue and tinks!

While melee's have the freaking Chorizite Shield and plain Aegis shield which does JACK until you crank your Magic D up significantly and even then we STILL don't have a higher melee D or Higher Damage like Archers do.

Thanks alot turbine, but since you guys have put all of this into the July Letter, it's as good as going in, so enjoy whatever you turn this game into, as it is NOT the AC I fell in love with all those years ago. It has now turned into some twisted demented version of it's former self and I refuse to continue to pay you guys for constantly nerfing things left and right like Loot/PVP, and making people who play melee charcters lives a living hell by FURTHERING the already Massive Gap between mages/archers and melee players.

Thanks for the enjoyment of AC1 for the first 2years as they where the best times I had, and was before this game started going straight to hell when everything started to change just because "it could" under ken karl. Thanks for NOT listening to your loyal fan base and for sticking it to us after all these years of loyal support.

This is mirroring Ultima Online totally. I used to play Ultima Online for a good 2+years and really enjoyed it, until Origin totally butchered it by releasing the Age Of Shadows Expansion. Totally and Utterly Butcherd an awesome game straight to limbo.
Turbine you better take some notes from Origin because if you keep changing the core mechanics of AC1 the way you are doing you will, Nay you HAVE already changed in into something totally different from the original vision set forth by the original devs.

And before I go I want to thank the community for all the fun I had in this game. Even when things got changed and nerfed to high hell and back the community was always there and willing to go out and have fun regardless of what changes happend and I wish to thank all of you for making my memory of this a generally pleasent one.

Closing down my accounts and deleting all my toons.
I hope you are happy turbine, as you've just lost a 4+ year vet player over your desicion to proceede with this july patch making my melee tank totally obsolete. And I can promise you I won't be back for your expansion pack as it is clear to me you guys do whatever you want, whenever you want regardless of player feedback.

Regards

[MaxV_FF]

TheKnight,

All I can say, in the defense of mages, is to look at the skill credits required to damage (ie, compare the cost of sword to war magic, then look at the damage). Lets not speak about all the other skills necessary, as the changes are to war magic alone.

War Magic Spec: 28 Credits
Sword Spec: 16

Magic D Spec: 12
Melee D Spec: 20

Plus, in your scenario, I'll add trained mana C, and life for the mage (even though most mages have speced life), and healing spec for the melee.

That is an additional 18 for the mage, and 10 fof the melee.

All totaled, that is 58 credits for the mage, while only 46 for the melee. Now look at the current solo damage for the mage, and the solo damage for the melee. With rending weapons, the melee will win more than my level 131 mage. Keep in mind, this isn't even with a mage vulning FOR them! Add in the vulns and there is no question who will get the kill.

Adding a few bonuses for war magic I think is long overdue. The overall balace of mage vs melee is more to do with all the mages necessary skills being based on 2 attributes, while the melee is based off 4 or more. This is what needs to be addresses, not the damage of war magic, as this is a much needed change.


-MaxV

[Aten-LC]

this "aegis imbue", can it be *REMOVED* from a missile weap once it's put on there? and no bs about it being technical that it can't be: you're adding the means to apply it. provide a mechanism to undo it, as well. after all, melee weenies get the choice of whether to equip their shield, without any melee penalty.. why should i have to permanantly gimp one of my weapons?

edit to add: also, why have the penalty at all? do others have to suffer this penalty with their aegis items? who the heck thinks this stuff up and decides it's "good"? i know you guys are all about how people can choose what tradeoffs they make, but i honestly don't believe that any sane archer is going to trade away 10% of their meleeD for some vague potential reduction in receiving war magic damage.

[zenoth]

missile aegis sounds to me like a sure way to mess up my wpns,

i have a very high melee def on my crossbower, if i take away

10 modifier on it, it may just become perfectly useless, in pvp

it would be very useful, but then again its the only place that

this wpn will never be seen,

i was hoping that a new archer item was added on the paper doll

like a quiver slot that modified archer's abilities to adjust magic

absorption or what nots.

So, am i gonna add a permanent ability, that makes my melee

defense almost useless in areas a 126 would hunt?

yea i got a very high magic defense as well, but even if i seen

the maximum benefit, it wont help me in pvp( not applyable to

pvp wpns, only loot pvm wpns.

so we are not really adding anything, just switching out

being blasted for half my life per shot now against level 7 wars

for being mauled over by the same monster in jsut about the

same time.

It wont help in pvp at all. It will change your death from wars

to physical monster attacks pvm, or wait....it wont the war crits on

monsters will kill ya even though aegis on 1 shot.

Nice try turbine, its just about better than nothing, I hope this

emplements far better than it sounds.

[Thundercutter]

The most common complaint that I've heard so far on every LttP forum that I've read is that Turbine does not listen to the players. I think the problem is that they listen to the players that are shouting the loudest and the most at the time. When they announced that they were giving archers aegis abilities, there was a tremendous outcry that this would totally unbalance the PvP world and give archers a melee ability while still allowing them to attack from range. I thought that Turbine came up with an acceptable compromise between the opposing factions.

I, personally, have been waiting on the salvage pack; however, there was such an outcry that this was such a colossal waste of the developers time that they placed it on the back burner. While I thought the backpack would be great for my character, mine was one of the few voices supporting its implementation. I'm sure the developers knew that it they went ahead with it, there would be much pulling of hair and gnashing of teeth (despite the fact that it would benefit a few and harm none).

I have been playing AC1 since the second phase of beta and my highest level character just reached 52nd level a couple of weeks ago. I've only been to the Direlands once; my main went there when he was in his teens with a high level (60+) mage. It was interesting but my personal belief is if my character can't fight something on his own or with the aid of his fellows, he shouldn't be fighting it. Sure attack it if uncertain but when it starts wailing on you and you can barely land a blow, drink enough health elixirs to withstand the painful blows to your back as you shamelessly flee for your life. :)

For as long as I can remember, I recall reading about how war magic was ridiculously expensive for the ability that it grants you. It's almost twice as expensive as any other pure combat skill in the game; now the developers are finally bringing it up to the power level to which it should have always been. I know that this will require a lot of re-thinking of attack strategies but the only other alternative that I can think of that the developers could have taken would be to drop the cost of war magic to 12 points (like life magic) and refund the difference to the characters. That would have caused just as loud of an outcry.

Of the six character slots available on my account, I have one pure melee (no magic whatsoever); a pure battlemage (spec war, life and mana conversion and little else), an item melee, a creature melee and a mule (my sixth slot is still open). I play the pure melee and the pure battle mage the most (levels 52 and 47); they both have their strengths and weaknesses. My pure melee can stand in the middle of mobs that would slaughter any of my other characters: (a) he has almost a third more of the health of the others; (b) he has almost a third more of the stamina of the others; and (c) he is specialized in melee defense; so, he gets hit a lot less than the other characters. The battle mage can simply kill anything up to about three times his level but he has to pick either single targets or mobs of about his level; even with his level 7 protects, the melee damage over time forces him to heal during the battle or die.

My item melee is an alchemist; so, he can make gems. He appears to only be about 10% successful on the greater (level 6) gems but they do give my non-life casters the benefit of protects when they go hunting or questing. Speaking of which, if pyreal salvage is still useless; how about allowing it to be used for gem making as one or more pyreal bars (the level of the salvage could equate to the quality of the bar)? Just a thought.

I haven't been to Lin since Thrud was in his 20s. It used to be necessary to go there before Balderscab, my item melee, learned his portal spells, which was long before settlement portals. Lin was on the second tier of portals; the goal was to get to the third tier of portals so that my small (3 players/11 characters) allegiance could meet at the subway to determine where we would adventure. As such, I'm happy that the players that have a special bond with Lin are getting an update; my home base was Tufa (and we all know what happened to it). The fall from portalling in after its destruction was kind of painful (especially for my mule).

I know that this is useless info the the vets but I thought I would enlighten new players as to how tough things were when the game was new: this was before settlement portals, buffbots, UCMs, allegiance chains, etc. Hmmmm. Notice any changes that were implemented based on player reactions; in fact, you can add attacking from scenery or while clinging to walls; instant standing to escape attacks while laying down; holding chests open after leaving them until they respawned and the various changes to make fellowship experience more fair (remember how life mages were hosed originally) to the list of changes that the developers implemented based primarily on information and requests from the fans.

I don't know if I actually have a point with this (admittedly) long post except to say that we should realize that every player believes that he or she is in the majority of players when we give a suggestion or say that a change is a nerf to our type of character. In reality, only Turbine can say what is the most prevalent type of character; okay I concede that the desire to see the salvage backpack implemented is probably in the minority.

By the way, having your character's effectiveness determined by the skills, race and attributes that you choose; the fact that the more effective skills have a higher cost; and that you can custom design a character to fit your individual style of play is exactly what attacted me Asheron's Call. In "class systems", eventually, a superior class or set of classes of archetypes always emerge and only an idiot would play anything other than said class(es). This obviously isn't true in AC because any time there is a change to any skill, there is both outrage and support towards the change.

As the subject states, "My two pyreal"

[Rhesus]

I'm grateful for the mage love, but I'm now afraid you will see a significant reduction in the numbers of high level magic casters you see people willing to fight.

Marionettes and Zefirs are two prime examples. They give (relatively speaking) fairly lousy XP for the risk they represent and they are swarm-minded, have high War magic skills, and throw lots of War and Life debuffs. As is, I only hunt them for the fact they get in my way on Caul.

Come next patch, I'm not sure I will have any reason to clear them out and lots of reasons to avoid them.

I also expect I will be picking up gems to get my Magic Defense spec'ed on my mage (bye-bye lockpick and a tinker skill). Even with 307 health, I'm a two-shot for most magic casters in VoD (when I'm vul'ed) and maybe a three-shot for the high level Caul mobs.

I also expect this will make more than a few of my meleer friends unhappy since they resist maybe a third of the spells I resist.

At level 120, my Magic Defense buffs to 325 and that now seems like its about 40 points too low.

[Reign of Tears]

For the love of Asheron, when updating old quests please start making them useful for playing! I'm sick of seeing major useless **** changed to minor useless ****. And the only reason to get this useless **** is to say you did the quest, then house hook it. Most quest rewards in the game now are completely useless. You keep changing the game for the better for the power level people, but neglect us true questers and adventurers.

Also, make it worthwhile for people to choose other class types. I'm sick of seeing nothing but Mages, Archers, and Swords, oh and the occasional UA.

Plus, I've always thought Mages in heavy armour (plate and such) in AC was one of the stupidest things in any RPG. Make the heavy armours have a restriction that says, "Cannot cast War Magic when wearing this." That will be our class balance we've been looking for. Put Mages back in robes, and make those robes useful again. Make robes good, but not nearly as good as heavy armour can be. Melee's need good strong armour in place of magic protection. Mage's in heavy armour is just plain funny. Sorry, that's just the way things should be.

[Scout X]

How the classes should be:

Mage - Tons of awsome power, mass destruction. But when confronted by an enemy, they are in a world of hurt. They simply cant handle it. Clothing = robe

Archer - able to take on enemies from afar, dealing ok damage. But if a melee were to come up at them, they would be in a worl of pain. Clothing = Cloth/Leather type

Melee - Great hack n slash power, bringing fear into those he runs up to. Clothing = Heavy plate and the such, being able to defend well against other melee and arrows.



How it is in AC:

Mage - Deals great damage, and can take it just as well since they can easily cap endurance. Can wear any armor anyone else can.

Archer - Very skilled snipers, so skilled that if they are 5 feet in front of you, they miss! Cant take damage very well in any aspect, usually can handle melee IF taken melee def, other that that, no they can't. No endurance.

Melee - Skilled in Hack n Slash.... Hacking and slashing rabbits maybe... but not through armor! Easily confused if enemy is running or jumping in circles. Can easily handle damage via the shield. Yet again though, no endurance.


And don't give me **** that there are some players out there who do have endurance that arent mages...... 1 in 12387 players are little to have to worry about.

_______________________________________

I saw someone in earlier reply here say something like these, just giving my version.

[Mr_Fred]

Originally posted by Scout X
How the classes should be:

Mage - Tons of awsome power, mass destruction. But when confronted by an enemy, they are in a world of hurt. They simply cant handle it. Clothing = robe

Archer - able to take on enemies from afar, dealing ok damage. But if a melee were to come up at them, they would be in a worl of pain. Clothing = Cloth/Leather type

Melee - Great hack n slash power, bringing fear into those he runs up to. Clothing = Heavy plate and the such, being able to defend well against other melee and arrows.



How it is in AC:

Mage - Deals great damage, and can take it just as well since they can easily cap endurance. Can wear any armor anyone else can.

Archer - Very skilled snipers, so skilled that if they are 5 feet in front of you, they miss! Cant take damage very well in any aspect, usually can handle melee IF taken melee def, other that that, no they can't. No endurance.

Melee - Skilled in Hack n Slash.... Hacking and slashing rabbits maybe... but not through armor! Easily confused if enemy is running or jumping in circles. Can easily handle damage via the shield. Yet again though, no endurance.


And don't give me **** that there are some players out there who do have endurance that arent mages...... 1 in 12387 players are little to have to worry about.

_______________________________________

I saw someone in earlier reply here say something like these, just giving my version.






I don't neccessarily agree with what you said about the classes in your post there, but you fail to mention, that we have 6 character slots.

I've used all of them. I have, and have played all styles of character. The point you fail to mention is that ALL characters have weaknesses and ALL characters have strengths.

[Reeve Sparticus]

* In regard to older content revisions: It seems to me the large majority of the populous on this thread are a bunch of powerleveling freaks that don't care about anything that isn't geared towards that end of gameplay.

I, however, do appreciate the effort in fixing up older content. Everquest is an example of a game where 99% of the content is badly out of date to the point that it would frustrate any new player so much that they would either quit the game because they didn't find the questing worthwhile or they would go to cheat websites and do the 1% of the content to PL to 65 in a month. In that game there are running around quests that take 4+ hours and give less XP than killing a single monster even if you're only level 2! I don't want new AC players to encounter that level of dissatisfaction.

Players skipping by everything that isn't the most uber item in the game will always get bored no matter what you do. Jeez, maybe they don't want any quest items for players under 126. Hehe, maybe they want quadruple majors on every quest item, and then get bored again once they have majors in all of their skills and attributes.

* In regard to mage changes: Fixing it so that mages can reach the caps for rending weapons is great! Mages actually were falling behind other players on DOT and that needed to be resolved too. However, improving CS and CB could be unbalanced if you give those abilities to monsters. PLEASE DON"T GIVE MONSTERS IMBUES. They don't need imbueued casters because level 126 players usually only have maybe 300 health.

* In regard to archers: I agree with the people here. Archers don't need an aegis effect on loot weapons as they have more chance to evade an incoming war than a melee would have already. Making the aegis effect available for weeping weapons would make more sense.

[Astral_Dominae]

I agree, please dont improve the crits for monsters as well .... unless you tweak their xp and loot ;)

[Delupin]

From the July LttP:

"Currently, imbues and slayer bonuses, when used with War Magic, scale from minimum effectiveness at 150 base War Magic skill to maximum effectiveness at 400 base War Magic skill."

An error, Ibn? I wasn't aware 400 base War Magic was possible. I was also under the impression that the effect of imbues and slayer bonuses has always capped at 360 base War Magic, if indeed the slayer bonus was skill based and not a static multiplier.

[Protes]

I'm happy that the AC Live Team are still revising the Towns in Osteth. I enjoyed the changes that were made to the 3 Starter Towns and I'm looking forward to seeing the upcoming changes that will be made to my hometown, Lin.

[Pepeswiss]

War magic changes sound interesting. I'm really looking forward to see this changes, to test them. And I hope they will not unbalance the hole system. As a mage I could really enjoy the possibility to improve damage over time by these improvments, as a melee I could think myself: what the heck another mage love!?!? We will see how it works. Numbers are fine, but reality (digital reality - hehe) will bring knowledge.

Updates around Lin will keep my busy visiting all dungeons near that town and updating the maps for acmaps.com. That's great. I love to detect the changes! Keep on going updating towns and their vicinity. Maybe some seem to make no sense for me but all in all I see several improvments for new and lowlevel chars.

I agree to Merubin regarding the Aphus Lassel changes. I really hope you will introduce some trophies or minor quests (like those golem hunter quests) to give us a reason to hunt there more often.

[Nalturu]

With the upcoming war magic changes, my question is when will we see item spells for armor to help reduce the damage of war spells? It seams a bit odd that a person without melee trained, can bane to the teeth and survive in olthoi dungeons, yet a players only defence against war magic is to dodge or raise the magic defence skill.

[Jugu]

Oh but you forget to mention the totally awesome Aegis Shield for a melee. Gotta love that, my Magic D buffs to 335 and I get hit for more through melee dmg due to no shield AL than it 'saves' me in War Magic damage.

Never understood the point. Paradoxes can hit me for 20+ with no shield - 0/1 with one. So in order to offset a whopping 20 or so points of dmg on a 150 dmg spell, I need to suck up 20 dmg per melee swing?

Crappers.

[Zyrca]

Originally posted by Delupin
An error, Ibn? I wasn't aware 400 base War Magic was possible. I was also under the impression that the effect of imbues and slayer bonuses has always capped at 360 base War Magic, if indeed the slayer bonus was skill based and not a static multiplier.

You can't acheive 400 base war magic, that is why the curve was changed, so that mages can acheive the max effectiveness.

[Zyrca]

Originally posted by rascal
500% increase in mob CB!!?!?!?!
OUCH!!! Sounds like a huge increase in one-shot deaths from magic casting mobs :( We are all DOOMED :(

To my knowledge, there are no monsters that have critical strike or critical blow magic attacks.

[Rick9719]

Sounds great...except for the part about monsters getting increased critical hits vs players. Way to increase player deaths Turbine!

[Solan]

Originally posted by Zyrca
To my knowledge, there are no monsters that have critical strike or critical blow magic attacks.


YET!


/em starts looking for a rock to hide under.

[Xeneises]

Way to go in giving monsters the same upgrade in war magic. Improving players' firepower should always be balanced with a monster boost to avoid making this game too easy and boring in the long run.

[Hungwell]

While I am happy to get some archer pvp love I am concerned by the form. I dont pk a lot but I cannot recall the last time I saw someone use a loot bow in PVP. The damage just isnt there. The aegis effect may give me more survivability vs war magic but my ability to kill anyone will still be third class. (for me personally 4th class cuz i suck)

Would this have not been better implemented as an item like jewlry or an imbue that would work on the person rather than the bow?

I just dont think this is going to be a great help for archers in pk.

[Myn Darklighter]

Monster criticals WILL be higher in some cases as they will get the critical multiplier against top end war damage.

BUT as has been mentioned, none use either a CS or CB item to cast, so their base chance of criticals will be at 5%. 95% of the time, they will be doing normal damage.


As far as mages outkilling melees/archer in VoD, I still don't think so on many mobs. What is a melee critical now? 2000? What is an archer critical? 2000? How many swings do a melee get in to a mage's one war? 2-3? Same question on how many arrows for an archer? 2-3?

A mage critical will be a mutiplier on top of max war damage. Which on the BEST mage friendly critters is around 500 tops...so MAX CS damage would likely be less than 1000 for a CS wand. For CB hits, a multiplier of 500% max COULD have a mage hitting for 2500. But since CB does not get the critical strike chance bonus, the "CHANCES" of a mage getting that CB damage hit is 5% Everything else will be normal mage damage hits.

SO I fail to see how a mage is going to outkill a melee/archer in VoD or Caul on a monster that is vulned/imped. ALL this war magic damage increase is doing is making war mages a more viable hunting partner in VoD, where before, more than one mage was really an xp liability...the mage was ONLY needed to be a vulning biatch.

War magic costs the most to train/spec xp credit wise. An archer/melee can spec both their attack skill AND a defensive skill (melee or magicD) for fewer skill points than a mage to spec war. SO a mage should not be far less powerful against high hp mobs than either a melee/archer. ALL the changes here is really going to affect to a great extent is high HP mobs. Lower levels a mage will still use a rending wand, and be limited to 5% chance of criticals...the extra damage done over time there will be negligable. But at the high end damage output, mages did suffer, this is addressing that.

[Hemorhage]

hurra!

[Verio]

My question is this, I thought there was supposed to be more Missile Trajectory changes done? What happened to the promise of a different type of way of shooting? Instead your increasing War Magic damage? Bah to that. Its still way to easy to evade a missile weapon, and to add, jump spinning has YET to be fixed. I say fix the problems you have before you add more by adding other stuff. OH and I forgot the biggest outrage. How is it fair that a melee can use an Aegis with any weeping weapon but you make it a requirement to use a LOOT bow? I know you guys play, maybe not a lot, I mean look at your "brittlemail armor" fix.. heh... but thats freaking retarded, you expect me to use some piece of **** bow to kill pks with? Thats just dumb.

[hairy Boots]

I really dont think that there should be an agies type thing for missle players. See melee players have ALOT harder time doging war spells than a missle player. Missile players have range to their advantage, and can easily move away from a mage casting a spell while STILL constantly hitting the mage. I think this would further unbalance the pk world.

[Xeneises]

Disregard this post, my mistake.

[hairy Boots]

Originally posted by Nalturu
With the upcoming war magic changes, my question is when will we see item spells for armor to help reduce the damage of war spells? It seams a bit odd that a person without melee trained, can bane to the teeth and survive in olthoi dungeons, yet a players only defence against war magic is to dodge or raise the magic defence skill.

That would defeat the whole purpse of using a mage in pvp. If you could bane agaist them so they are only doing 100 dammage a hit, in the time that a bow could do 60 dammage a hit 5-8 times, what would be the use of spending the 20(not 100% sure) points it takes to train it.

[KriegPfeil]

It’s important to note that this is not expected to be the be-all, end-all balancing item for PvP missile weapons. We still have additional goals, as we’ve mentioned in previous articles. This new property is intended to give missile weapon users additional options in both PvP and PvM combat, in situations where incoming war spells are a greater threat than melee attacks.



So let me get this straight. Weeping damage is already **** for archers, but you couldn't let them even do that with the aegis ability. Damage with an AR bow is even worse than ****, but was still too much for archers to do if they have the weeping ability. So archers can take up to 25% less war damage if they have extremely high magic d(my melee gets 15% and his magic d costs 100+ million per point and is trained). The cost of being able to take this reduced damage, which is necessary since archers are a joke in pvp and get slaughtered by mages while not having the ability to kill them, even if they dodge every war, is that archers will do alot less damage to mages and will be raped by if any melee attacks them.

Why do you guys bother "helping" archers? Most every change you do in the name of helping archers does nothing to help archers. These changes which are intended to help, but do not, and are so half hearted it is like a slap in the face. Knowing that this change was going to be something worthless like this, I asked previously that you not do it, but instead increase the damage archers do so they can maybe have a chance of killing someone who is both buffed and not afk. Hollow dagger crits almost as hard as hollow bow. Hollow bow is only 15% more damage on crits. It is a shame when using my free trained racial skill is better than using my 20 point spec'd skill(16 for bow, 4 for fletching) . That however ends up being the case since if you want to dodge arrows you will, and you can't do enough damage with bow to kill someone before they heal. How long ago were Arcs but into the game for mages? They were put in because of pathing problems with bolts, well missile weapons have always have the same pathing, but there hasn't been a fix for them in 4 years. Missile weapons in pvp are about as accurate as trying to use a catapult to hit a guy on a horse with a boulder, only the boulder really hits as hard as a pebble. I can't believe only 99% of archers have quit or rerolled, what are those of us still hanging around thinking? That Turbine will reverse their trend of giving mages everything they want and keeping missile weapons useless. The couple times they made the mistake of making missile weapons even competitive they were immediatley nerfed.

Why bother making changes if there is only a tiny positive combined with alot of negative(Aegis for missile weapons)? Why would you keep one type of character from being able to kill the other types of characters at all?(I get kills, but they are usually from mob participation and me vulning for the mobs as well as the element I am using) These Aegis bows are going to hit mages in the area of 20 damage a shot, and that may be too high an estimate. How on earth would you ever kill someone if it took 20 shots to kill them? Congrats on finding a fix for strafing evading arrows by making damage from bows so bad that mages shouldn't bother with trying to make them miss. So again no help for archers in pvp, after this length of time this should be the top priority, but I won't hold my breath, I have seen what has happened in the past.

[Hemorhage]

i dont believe that this is a griefing/flaming thread toward the devs. please take you negitive comments elsewere.

oh and another point, not every thing in this game is about PvP you know.

[Deven-Kenyon]

I'm hoping whatever it was that made for these pushed back ideas was work on the third dungeon for the Burun arc.

As for updating the miniscule stuff, can we see you hire some nerdy type and put him in the back room and have him work on town revamps, old quests, et al while the people with the actual skills update and fix what's really needed?

The big picture, I think most get it by now, you're trying to make this as much a fellow reliant game as possible and that's fine, but please remember the solo player, who doesn't consider themselves uber and just likes to go out and get trinkets like the rest of the population and shouldn't have to rely on anyone else to accomplish that task. I used to love Caul Island, now, the only time I go there is for a quest.

Yes, I realize you're trying to satiate the never-ending thirst these uber template/macro ho's have, but that's what ruined this game in the first place. It's good to try and be the best at something, I have this trait myself, but not at the cost of hundreds of players. If you're going to continue making these top notch area's only the super maxed out of players can almost handle, also consider the other side of the coin, the lower end player who may be just as high a level, but doesn't want to mow down monster after monster in their path.

And for heaven's sake, while you're revamping quests, do something about the Liazk Itzi's Temple (Blackmire II). I don’t know about you but, run, fight, run, fight, run, run run, fight, fight, fight, run, push button, run, fight, run, fight, push button, leaves me kind of flat where quests go. The majority of quests in this game, those worth their salt anyway, are lever based, what happened to the second temple? You started out wonderful with the Blackmire Temple, yet it all spiraled downhill rather quickly. Now it's been three months since the second dungeon was introduced and we have a few tumerok/lugian quests that really aren't worth the smidgen of effort it takes to complete them to show for your efforts.

Your answer of "you cannot confirm or deny that information" when someone asks you something is really getting old now. Orion dropped a hint about old bobo quest info and some of us spent quite a while on each server trying to figure out what we had missed in prior patches. What came of that? Nothing, nada, zilch, zippo. How about some real clues this time instead of baiting us with wisps of hints? Let's clear up all these missed parts of older quests while you're "fixing" some of them, eh?

Do you have separate departments that handle the different aspects of this game? Like say, a team of Dark Tiders that's sole purpose is to work on PvP content? Do you have a team that just works on quests? One that works on landscape? If not, perhaps you should consider doing this and stop trying to use a handful of developers that break their backs trying to cover as much content to hopefully alleviate some of our complaints each month.

[MimsterofMT]

The rich gor richer...

Mages do enough damage as it stands right now. My mage is currently the strongest char i have even thought my missile char is 16+ lvls higher. Now my mage is even better. He can get more exp per hour solo gets better loot than any other char solo and now you have increased that...

Aegis for archers is so flawed...doesn;t have the versitility of melees aegis shield, isnt very effective even for my spec'd magic def archer.

I see nothing for the covvy nerf of making baning so much easier.

DO SOMETHING to improve melees and missiles.

I still see no high lvl content or areas for solo melee's and missile chars.


Mimster

[Winter]

wow...looks like I wasnt the only one who didnt like the 'great changes' coming in this patch. From the sounds of it, other than 'under the hood' stuff, were getting another Hero's Respite.:rolleyes:
Seriously I have noticed things being "In concept" And afterwards not seeing them ever move into "coming soon" or even "in development" for that matter.

I love my tank/3 school archer, but the fact is archery is a sick and sad joke, and melee is a close second to that revered title. Take away their shields and their sticky melee and were in the same boat. As I remember that was the fix to keep people from moving around to avoid melee contact.
I think archer pathing should be nothing more than a skill check against the targets missileD. Either that or make Arrows an almost instant hit when shot. And when you are done with that you can address the issue of archer damage.
I should hit for a hell of alot more than I do with my skillset, with or without a weapon imbue. I have to take ammo into consideration (which is another 4-10 credits, if I want better arrows and access to all damage types: Bow spec + Fletch+Alchy = 26, War Magic Spec = 28) And if I want to cast and be good at fletch and alchy, I have to sell off my quickness for focus. Take the damage mod off of bows, 120 mod to 130 mod has no discernable increace in damage. Make all bows have a damage bonus similar to the Paquenal Panaq, and make your tiers from there. Lastly, Introduce a new tier of arrows for people who have 290+ skill.
I can take no shield...hence I would really like to see a viable defense option. I would like to see armor changed for statistic reqs or trained/specialized skillsets reqs (possibly a skill for heavy med light? Hmm...) And I would also like to see new tiered armor (not covenant that you cant buff.) in each of the armor styles, and tiered in such a way that only classes with high stats of certain types can equip them.
Allright.... /rant off.
You guys used to make changes that meant something. Lately weve been getting band-aids for bulletwounds.

[nelar]

In regards to the update of Aerlinthe, one thing that would be great when you do this is to move the monster spawns off the steep mountain sides. This was always a frustrating problem because the monsters would be running/sliding all over the place trying to get back to its spawn -- which it couldn't do because the mountain side was too steep. In addition, there were monsters that were unreachable because the player couldn't get up far enough the mountain side to get at them. Sometimes you could pull them down by hurting buddies lower down the mountain, but if they lost interest in you, they'd be back to sliding all over the mountain side trying to get back to their spawn spot.

[Holey]

This is ambiguous, so hopefully we can get some help on it

"Currently when a War Magic spell scores a critical hit, it adds a multiple of the base damage of the spell to a normal damage roll. Starting in July, War Magic critical hits will instead add a multiple of the maximum damage of the spell. No more crits that do less damage than non-crits!"

So, base for Ilservian's or Evisceration is 110-180

So it looks like an old crit was (110)*multiple+damage.

Now it will be (180)*multiple+damage.

What is multiple, is it integer amounts? If so, a multiple of 2 or more with a vuln (assuming a level VII pro) is death.

What is damage, is this doc'd anywhere?

[Dilvish-MT]

Been a long while since I read a mages versus melee versus archers debate. But to say that mages are the most powerful in every situation is an exageration. I won't comment on PvP; like 99.99 percent of players don't care about PvP.

But on Caul, VoD and Alphus melee outkill mages consistantly. Melee are hitting for 1000 against a vulned imped mob and critting for far more, but mages are hitting for 500 and critting for 400. This fix to crits is a long time in coming. BTW I have a 160 level UA ,180 melee-mage, 130 BM, 126 sword and 130 xbow so I feel I know what I am talking about. Neither of my mages can solo Mowen, but my other chars can. Changing the curve for onus spells to max out at 360 instead of 400 makes a ton of sense since almost no mages have a base war of 400, which is almost impossible to get. Crits are most important for big mobs, like VoD, Caul and bosses like GMan, Mowen, etc. Right now all anyone ever wants mages for in those places is to vuln and imp because the real dmg belongs to the melee.

Maybe that will become more even now with thses changes.

[KF_AC]

Concerning the help to Missile users, why not add the Aegis effect to a piece of armor, instead of to a weapon?
Either that or every weapon should be able to receive it, including hollow, weeping, phantom etc.
Unless you plan introducing the ability to add Slayer effect to loot weapons, I don't follow your logic.

[Heideggar]

I was kinda hoping that "rares" and "higher wield" weapons would help even any imbalances out due to this, but it was never mentioned in relation to the balance issues associated with this change.

I'm curious if the increase to mage damage is a precursor to any new higher wield weapons that are soon to come.

btw turbine, get on your horse and put in rares hehe. You said you'd put that in around Jan/Feb.

I'm not sure if you looked at some of the vn-boards, but quite a few were perplexed as to why Turbine keeps pushing things back months after month, dropping this and that from their development schedule, etc. etc.

[Opti_Silmara]

Content updates, especially of old quests sounds good.

We need more 'undiscovered' places too.. perhaps more roaming dungeons. I don't care if they offer little in the way of treasure.. I just want to be thrilled with something I haven't seen yet... mysterious with exciting and unusual architecture.

Devs please also take a look at my post: "More SURPRISES please". (http://forums.ac.turbinegames.com/showthread.php?threadid=10717&goto=newpost) This game really needs more surprises. Updates are great, but the thrill of doing the same gets old.

I also would like to see something new with the fishing. Right now it seems an almost useless part of the game. It would be fun to see some new hard to find, dangerous, underground fishing holes, maybe with 'man eating' fish or monsters guarding them hehe. The treasures could be new cool items for mansions, villas and cottages.

I'm always hoping for more new stuff, so I hope we'll see more new stuff. Not everything has to be real involved. Look at how fast people run for new items! :D

Btw - I heard the campfire was a bug, but I rather like it. I hope you'll keep the campfire and make it hookable. It's rather a good 'mistake'. :) I'd like to hook one in front of the mansion. ;)

Speaking of which.. could you possible consider some mansion updates?

It would be nice if all mansions had courtyards with fountains, and perhaps a bit of a garden around them too.
The mansion I have for my alleg is out in the desert, surrounded by sand and nothing else. It's interesting to note though it's always raining out there, but nothing grows! Makes sense to me it should be an oasis. :rolleyes:

Some yard hooks out from the mansion as well would be a neat addition. I can just imagine it.. my clan members sitting around a campfire (on a yard hook) in the garden. We often have huddles.. but the closest to a campfire we can come is one being dropped on a regular basis, or a circle of torches. ;)

Also.. mansions have so few floor hooks they always seem rather bare. If more floor hooks can't be added.. maybe then some more decoration such as the Halls in the Apartment complexes have?

My clan always gets excited about doing more for our mansion.. so it's rather a shame there are not more items specifically for mansions, and you can't seem to get portals to different places from the BM quest.

I also think what applies to mansions should apply to villas too. There are many small clans relying on villas for their allegiance housing, and why should they miss out because it's a villa and not a mansion?

Keep up the good work! I hope you'll take my suggestions into consideration for what I'd like to see in upcoming patches too.

Opti :cool:

[KriegPfeil]

Originally posted by Hemorhage
i dont believe that this is a griefing/flaming thread toward the devs. please take you negitive comments elsewere.

oh and another point, not every thing in this game is about PvP you know.

My post wasn't griefing or flaming. When did I say anything about the game being all about pvp? As far as negative comments are concerned they should want all feedback. For them to only want people patting them on the back would be a waste of time. It is better that they hear the negative feedback so they can address the potential problems. Also being able to give such feedback lets the customer feel that their concerns will at least be heard.

I stand by what I said in my post and I meant to include that this is a virtually worthless change for pvm as well as pvp. In pvm it will let you take up to 25% less damage from wars, the average person will take 10-15% less though, at the cost of 10% of their melee defense and a large reduction in damage output since the weapons then are unimbueable. So you take more damage from melee attacks which pretty much balances the reduced war magic damage, but then you take a huge hit in damage from not being able to imbue the bow. If you don't think it is a huge hit go out and use an unimbued bow and see how you do. You won't be happy with the results, I promise you.

Don't call someone a flammer who isn't a flammer. I don't make posts with half thought of ideas or for the purpose of bashing someone. I post facts, plain and simple. You won't find one post I make that I don't present the facts on. There aren't many other people you can say that about. So think before you call someone a flammer, otherwise aren't you the one who is then flamming?

[KriegPfeil]

Originally posted by Dilvish-MT
Been a long while since I read a mages versus melee versus archers debate. But to say that mages are the most powerful in every situation is an exageration. I won't comment on PvP; like 99.99 percent of players don't care about PvP.

But on Caul, VoD and Alphus melee outkill mages consistantly. Melee are hitting for 1000 against a vulned imped mob and critting for far more, but mages are hitting for 500 and critting for 400. This fix to crits is a long time in coming. BTW I have a 160 level UA ,180 melee-mage, 130 BM, 126 sword and 130 xbow so I feel I know what I am talking about. Neither of my mages can solo Mowen, but my other chars can. Changing the curve for onus spells to max out at 360 instead of 400 makes a ton of sense since almost no mages have a base war of 400, which is almost impossible to get. Crits are most important for big mobs, like VoD, Caul and bosses like GMan, Mowen, etc. Right now all anyone ever wants mages for in those places is to vuln and imp because the real dmg belongs to the melee.

Maybe that will become more even now with thses changes.

The part about melees outkilling mages on Caul, Vod and Alphus just isn't true. Nobody kills devastators faster than mages. Mages do better than non mages on Caul by far in fact. The mobs that melees can hit for 4 digit damage amounts are mobs that have a low armor amount that goes into the negative or close to it when imperil 7 is casted on them. The total number of mobs that are like this are drumroll please.........8. 7 are at Vod and Doomsharks on Caul are the other. At Vod non mages can do better in the short term if they get the right spawns, but long term they do about the same as mages as far as exp/hour is concerned.

The part about changing the 400 base cap for war magic is where you really show your lack of knowledge. You said that few characters have war that high, if few is 0 then you are correct. The cap for war magic is 381 base. Which is why under the old system the imbued properties didn't cap. I always thought it was accidental, that it was supposed to be set with the same number as missile weapons(360), but they made a mistake and left it with the melee weapons cap(400). Two skills divided by 4 is the same as one skill divided by 2 which is why it should have always been and now is going to be 360. Melee weapons are 2 skills divided by 3 which is drumroll please.......higher than 2 divided by 4. 400 is actually 29 points away from max while 360 is only 21.

You stating that you have high level characters just shows that you don't necessarily know what you are talking about if you are a high level. Most people know this anyway, btw I have a level 187 archer, 166 sword, and 151 mage. I am the only owner the account has ever had and have spent over 3 years developing my characters and learning to play them at the same time. With your lack of knowledge and the fact that all your characters are 126+ leads me to think that they were basically chained up with your AC experience consisting mainly of Apes. Hard to think of any other explanation of why you are so off with your info. No offense, but I usually like discussions on what should be done with the game accurate in regards to what goes on in the game now.

[_AbBaNdOn]

ARE YOU(TURBINE) NUTS?!@?!?!!

Your gonna give monsters the same upgrade your giving players??

Now they will crit more and after your pump up lv 1-6 spells they will be doing more damage overall also???

You took a few steps forward and 50 thousand steps backwards.

I hope you plan on changing magic defense so it costs 1 credit to spec.

And i also hope you plan on letting aegis shields block 99% of war spells.

You guys just summarily crushed the fun i was having in AC again. What a #$^$&**( stupid change :mad:

Balance?? what the #$^* is that ??? ?

[Dilvish-MT]

So I should have said "impossible" instead of "almost impossible". I wouldnt know, since none of my mages, including the level 180 one has max war and I never tried to figure out what the number was.. I just knew if 400 base was reachable, it was near impossible. Ok, but the point is that reducing it to 360 makes sense, correct? Can we agree on that?

Now as to mages versus melee. I guess I would need to see some sort of dmg/minute numbers to prove that mages outpower melle against high hitpoint mobs. Are you saying that a high level sword character using the proper rending sword against a mob will average a lower dot than a mage using a rending wand? or that a sword char hitting a vod (any vod creature) which has been imped and vulned using an AR sword will kill mobs more slowly than a mage using vulns/war? Perhaps thats true, but it has always seemed to me that the sword chars get the kills in sword versus war competative situations, like Mowen.

When groups are being formed for Caulcano groups (40-60 mil/hour) people are not asking for mages to come and blast with war, they want them to come and vuln and imp, why is that if it was universally considered that war damage had the better dot over time?

And I have had my characters since MT opened over four years ago, so I do feel like my thoughts are worth posting on this matter. I do think you are a tad bit insulting in making your point.

[Heideggar]

hehe, reminds me of some of those times where I'll run into someone struggling as a mage saying it sucks a lot, they get resisted, they die, and things like that. I ask them some questions to possibly help them, and then find out they haven't spent the time to tinker up armor enough, or debuff creatures that give them problems, and things like that.

The thing is, I find the same thing with missle/melee people. They **** and moan that this or that ain't working right, they die a lot, ain't doing enough damage, and the like. I ask them some questions and find out they're using treated kits instead of gifted or plentiful, their healing skill is horribly low (lvl 150 with a healing skill costs 3 mill while making 60 mill/hr...), that they're using rending weapons instead of AR or CS to do more damage, and a whole bunch of these little things that, when added up, matter a lot.

Had a guy in Caul say mages rule in damage, but he was using a 130% +6 frost rending bow, barely ok coord. Had another guy right next to him using a 166% CS bow with deadly frost arrows with similar stats saying, "wtf dude, I just killed this one alone!"

All I'm saying is, if you say that something isn't right, or imbalanced, please make sure you, yourself, aren't gimpifying yourself with laziness and/or a misunderstanding of ingame dynamics and tactics.

[Hungwell]

When groups are being formed for Caulcano groups (40-60 mil/hour) people are not asking for mages to come and blast with war, they want them to come and vuln and imp, why is that if it was universally considered that war damage had the better dot over time?

1 mage shooting a war does x amount of damage to one high health mob.

1 mage imp/vuln does no damage himself but allows his 1-8 melee cofellows the ability to multiply their damage by 2 or more.

So what kills quicker?

A fellow with 2 mages and 6 melee/archers where the mages war and the others use rending weapons?

Or

A fellow with 2 mages and 6 melee/archers where the mages imp/vuln and the melee/archers use AR/CS/CB weapons?

That is a pretty easy question. It is not the one class that does the best against high health mobs it is the synergy between melee and the mage that causes the tremendous damage.

The most ideal solo toon in vod/caul is the high magic hybrid and even these fall FAR shourt of a true mage with a melee/archer killer.

[Mildly amused]

This isnt a giant leap but a small step - in the wrong direction. We have exactly three high-end (places where the majority of loot drops are tier 6) hunting areas currently in game: Caul, Lacuna, VoD. Currently dominated by mages, mages, mages/archers (for ease of use, I call those who use war magic to kill mages).

The skill cost argument makes no sense. In order to be meaningful there had to be a skill or a combination of skills that -at the same cost- combine to an equally viable template, as in: war magic + 60 skill points ~ dagger + 84 skill points. Sadly there isnt. Basically you dont suffer any disadvantages for spending all the skill credits on war magic, so the advantages should not be as overwhelming as they are today.

What would get the game almost perfectly balanced would be a opportunity cost aprroach. A mage spends 28 of his 88 skill credits on war magic, leaving him with 60. A dagger user spends 4 leaving him with 84. To compensate for this difference, war magic should do 84/60 of the damage dagger does, 40% more. Balancing like this would make the attack skills roughly equally desirable. Balancing -and I use the word in the loosest sense imaginable- like you do will leave you with a game with lots of mages, some archers, few swords and nothing else.

I hope you are willing to for once check what your changes will mean to the level 90+ gameplay and act on it - in the not too unlikely event that the mages, mages and mages/archers imbalance will shift a tiny bit further in favor of mages. And dont necessarily raise the DoT of the physical attackers. Give them a high-end playground that favors them in the same way that the three current ones favor mages and go from there.

I also suggest that -if you are hellbent to look at skill credit cost before anything else- you dont forget melee defense. It costs the same 20 credits to spec as does life magic. And while life magic is currently *the* make-or-break skill on high-end content melee defense is somewhere between optional and unimportant on the same content. Its long, damn long overdue that somebody without melee defense takes significantly more damage than someone who has it specced. Make melee (and missile) attacks on high-end mobs much more common, more dangerous and make it hollow, so melee defense makes the difference and not banes and prots.

Dont get me wrong: If you look at war magic alone, both of these changes make sense. However if you look at the big picture you made the dominant kill skill even stronger. Since you took over AC the game is moving in the right direction with remarkable speed but your 'we cater to mages first and to anybody else later in the unlikely event we should happen to find the time'-fetish is ticking me off.

[Hungwell]

well put mildly and I agree wholeheartedly.

[Ivanhoe]

Aegis Effect for Loot Missile Weapons
In July, Bow, Crossbow and Atlatl users will be able to gain the ability to add a Magic-Absorbing property to any loot missile weapon. This property will work in exactly the same way as an Aegis shield, but has the side-effect of a 10% melee defense penalty. You will be able to grant this property to an item that has been imbued and/or tinkered, but you can’t add an imbue after having added this property.

It’s important to note that this is not expected to be the be-all, end-all balancing item for PvP missile weapons. We still have additional goals, as we’ve mentioned in previous articles. This new property is intended to give missile weapon users additional options in both


Here is my feedback.



DONT even put this change in the game.
DELETE IT NOW.


It does NOTHING to help archers in ANYWAY.

Doing LESS damage is not an option in pvp for an archer.
Why?
Because archers can barely hit anything as it is.

So instead of 40dmg from weaping they will be doing 20ish dmg from a looted/imbued bow.

But to offset there LOWER dmging Aegis bow. they will be able to resist a little bit of war magic.....

So i will have to hit a mage 2 times to equal the current dmg of my weeping bow.

Oh and by the way a Negative melee d bonus too....


Turbine,
I understand you want to show the players something that has to do with archers.To show us that youve been working on SOMETHING
But this is not it. Its useless.
Just leave it out.


Admit to the archer playerbase that they will need to pay at least another 6 months until they will finally receive anytype of PvP enhancement which by the way has been MUCH needed for 6-8months already.


OR you can attempt to help archers by giving them an aegis with no penatlies whatso ever and able to be placed on any missle weapon (including weepings)


This would still only be a small way on the road to archer balance in pvp .

[Winter]

Nicely put mildly, what I would like seeing is something that gives the non magic community a reason to spec meleeD, as I dont see them revising the cost of it. A damage reduction modifier based on your melee defense score would make it worthwhile, or at least a step in the right direction....think of it as an aegis for your meleeD. I know as an archer, I would rather see this than a aegis effect for magic D. I think it would help offset the lack of a shield somewhat.

[Ibn]

Originally posted by Chupon
Question: Are there any monsters already in game that have built in Crippling Blow properties to their war magic?

If not, then this really isn't a problem, you'll just see more 200+ hits, which I can live with.

If even some of the content in VoD, Caul and West dires does have this already built in, it might hurt solo play in those areas.

I am not aware of any. If there are, they are very rare -- quest boss monsters and the like.

[Illusi]

Well I'm very disappointed with the War Magic critical adjustments....not from player-side but from the mob-side.

Most mobs are already 'archmages' as it is.... now you want to make it just that much easier for the mobs to one-shot kill us?

Please explain how it is a 'good' thing for the mobs to be able to do a possible 180-270 damage (before prots are applied) for something as simple as a level 5 Lighting bolt...... {assumes a normal crit is 2 or 3 times max damage}....

Sorry but most players (melee, missle, mage) just simply won't be able to handle that kind of damage - true they basically can't now either but there is at least a slight chance for them will some protects and such....

Is part of this "rebalance" also intended to make it more dangerous for the players to fight mobs in general? Please explain this if possible.....

:confused:

[Ibn]

A couple comments here...

First, I'm seeing some possible overreaction to the Crippling Blow and Critical Strike changes, with folks thinking that these improvements will mean instant death from monsters casting spells. It's important to remember that few -- if any! -- monsters have CB or CS imbues on their war magic attacks. I do not believe that any current monsters have these.

Regarding base crits, let's take a look at Ilservian's Flame, Flame Bolt 7. This spell does 110-180 damage and, pre-event, crits from 165-235. After the July event, crits will be 200-270, a 35 point increase. This is more damage, yes, but not the 500% increase that you could see from a CB-imbued wand in PvM combat. Also, remember that without CS, crits only occur about 5% of the time.

Regarding the In Concept articles, the vast majority of them require engineering time and heavy testing -- exactly the resources that are being taken up by the billing migration. Each member of the live team has a specific role and, while there is some overlap, in general you don't want content designers rewriting game code. You certainly don't want ME rewriting game code. :)

In addition, there are other factors you need to consider. For example, the Three Crystals quest. It was originally scheduled for July until the content designers took a look under the hood at Gaerlan and realized how challenging it was going to be to remove all the little quirks that made it break frequently. So we had to choose -- bump Three Crystals, bump Gaerlan, or fix fewer issues in both quests. We decided to bump the Three Crystals and do the Gaerlan revision the right way. Some of you may disagree with the priorities, and we respect that and we do want to hear your feedback. However we had to make a choice that wasn't going to please everyone, so we chose Gaerlan.

Is it possible that, had we discovered the Gaerlan issues earlier, we would have bumped the Lin revision and done Three Crystals instead? Possibly. But possibly not. The town revisions are very important to the long-term life of the game, particularly with the upcoming marketing and the expansion pack. Sure, folks who already know the game well may take new chars on VT, jump into a Matron Hive, and powerlevel. But brand-new players will expect that the content around a town is appropriate in challenge and reward, and we'd like to avoid disappointing them if possible.

I would love to be able to just snap my fingers and have all the ideas we've posted In Concept, the great suggestions from the community, and more all go into the game in August. But unfortunately I don't have that kind of magic. Each month we have to allocate our resources to get the most "bang for the buck". Right now, and for the near future, that's going to be the billing migration. Because there's not much point in adding new content and new features if no one can log in to the game to see them, right? :)

[Heideggar]

Ya know what Ibn, you're right.

You _should_ cut back on content due to billing migration.

Let me know when you're done with that and I'll consider renewing my account.

I dunno, that's prehaps a bit over the edge, but if it came to _my_ mind, it probably has come to others as well.

Having the players pay for less content while Turbine gets their billing migration done is rather... rude!? inconsiderate!? unprofessional!? greedy perhaps!?

Most of us pay to play your game. Why are we paying for you guys to allow us to play your game? Shouldn't turbine like... umm, provide for themselves, without detrimenting the game's services, a good means of billing!? I dunno about others, but I'd like to think my money goest to updates to the game that I play. Updated billing is nice, but why are the players having to pay for this by accepting less monthly content? You would have thought turbine would have hired a couple people to handle this or something so that Asheron's Call could continue with its regular monthly content.

I just feel that if I'm getting less monthly content I shouldn't have to pay 100%, cuz I sure ain't getting 100% back from you guys.



btw Ibn, please, scratch that bow/aegis junk. Seriously, ugh, if it's what you guys said it is in the LttP... well, I just hope it didn't take many resources/time to do that, cuz I can tell you now, it won't work. You should work on the "end-all be-all" instead of wasting time on this junk. Serious waste of time considering the amount of time your players have rather patiently given you all in trying to fix the situation.

I know, you guys at Turbine at in some transitions, and it's gonna take a bit of time to get things sorted out. The first year you guys have your business back is the year you guys needa freaking step up to the plate here. Pushing back content, siding all kinds of things, giving less content because of your transitions... that ain't good guys. Especially when I read about content/tech that just simply will not work, and then putting aside other issues. If you guys are gonna do something, seriously, do it right. These little quick small fixes that you think will eventually add up to something ain't working.

Some advice: Play your game more, it'll make your development easier, and provide fewer mistakes.

[KPD157]

They never will be happy with the game :) Over the last 6 months I have seen things that floored me just as much as you guys put together Dark Majesty :)

I have seen the beginnings of the end for Microsoft Domination and the beggining of a great new age of AC :)

When I hear people talk about Turbine with I understand what your doing but I still think you suck Attitude I just gottah laugh to myself :)

Keep up the good work I havn't had more fun making a character concept since all these loot changes and stuff been in effect and I find it wonderfull that you guys keep at it even with Billing transistion :)

Oh one more neat thing I like about the Letter and that is Changes to the Magic in the future in PVM love the concept havn't been playing mages in high Health Monster areas because its too hard to beat the monsters down Now at least the Mage will be able to sort of compete :)

[Tyrion]

Heh ok I'm hearing some major **** here about mages not being able to outkill a melee.

Using sword as my example here cuz i'm a 126 tank sword character, who also has a 126 BM.

Meleer's crit about 2000 on a vulnd/impd critter. That's right VULN 7 and IMP 7 using an AR sword doing a crit.

Do you know how many tank melees can actually vuln/imperil a critter in VOD? Oh about 1 in 1000 maybe.

Ever tried to solo VOD on a tank melee? Impossible, even with every rend weapon and AR weapon under the sky. Take an archer or mage out there, no problem. Choose to kill Virindi, undead, tusker oblits, drudges, and you're making xp quite nicely.

Not to mention the fact that healing for a mage takes all of about a second, whereas for a melee you gotta drop from combat mode, wait for the animation, hit your hotkeyed kit and mainpack, wait for the heal animation, hope to hell you didn't fail cuz if you did you gotta wait that 2 seconds to try and heal again, and then drop back to attack mode, wait for than animation, hit the attack key, and wait for the attack bar to charge up. Meanwhile that critter has regained a few hundred health points due to its regen.

Mages vuln, war, war, war, war, heal always at 100% chance of success, war, war, war, etc, you get what I mean.

Screw trying to solo anything with me melee in caul or vod, hell even lacuana makes mince meat out of many a melee.

Looks like it's back to rampagers, olthoi and lugians. :|

[Anaximander]

When will the item magic improvments be finished?

Buffing all those weapons+shield is even more mind-numbing now.

[Heideggar]

I hate you KPD157. It's your face I put on every tusker I kill, to drive me to level! lol. You help me a lot *wipes a tear*

Yeah, I think I'm part of the "hard to please" populace. I put in suggestions usually, so I ain't _totally_ bad. hehe

I guess I let the fact that I'm a software developer myself play into some of these Development Schedule ordeals.

There are things the Devs do that I like. Perhaps I don't express them as much as I express those things they've done that I don't like.

I'll look into that. My buddies don't think I "spread the love" enough, even though they make me proud to be their monarch. So I'll try to be more positive on the things I like, but I ain't changing how I react to what I don't like! : )

[Crimson-Ghost]

First of all, KPD157, your a HUGE fanboi.. most of your posts are major sucking up to turbine (makes you think hes gunning for mod or something). I'm not even TRYING to flame you.. because I could easily quote your signature to do so, I'm merely pointing out that you seem to be a lifetime member of the super happy turbine fun club.

Secondly, Turbine HAS put in a few good changes as of late, the lore has been great as well as the storyline. The loot changes are awesome, its actually worthwhile to loot alot of monsters now, and some that were never worth looting before have much better items now. I find the level range for equipment is perfect, although I'm finding a lot less 325 wield swords, I found everything else below that at perfect intervals.

Lastly, Ibn I was impressed by your lengthly response to the war magic changes. It's nice to see you give out a detailed explanation of a question instead of a 1 line dismissal (which you are so often accused of). However, I'd still like to see some kind of response from Turbine about this aegis change for missile, its obvious by the feedback here and on the vault so far that the vast majority think its a bad idea. So please take that into consideration and maybe give us a heads up on to what you guys are thinking of doing. I think the suggestion of putting the aegis effect on weepings or jewellery was a great idea, maybe you can give us some kind of feedback on that?

[Synnah]

me me me!

Can I be the leader of the Turbine Fan Club please? :D

I don't have any suggestions right now... I'm pretty content the way things are...

but all I know is a UA char, a bow char, and a tradesgal.. and I don't and won't ever do pvp stuff :)

ohhh, there ya go... tradeschar love... I look forward to a day when perhaps there's another reward like nanner splits to oolutanga.

but then, I can wait until billing is migrated... and updates are done... and the expansion comes out... and then some for that :)

[Illusi]

Aye, thank you for your reply and detailed explanation/example for the War Magic changes - I feel better now that I understand it.

:)

[-jz]

I've been hearing people complain about the billing upgrade taking away resources from the live updates. I even saw one fool on some board, maybe this one, that called it things like "rude", "unprofessional", "inconsiderate", and "greedy".

The fact is Turbine has never made a guarantee, neither implied nor expressed, as to the amount of content, bug-fixes, or even background story, or anything else that would be in any particular update. The only promise is that they will continue to work on the game as a whole, and release an update --maybe large, maybe small-- roughly once a month. That's it.

In fact they are one of the few games anywhere that does anything like that, and i can only hope that it continues to be rewarding enough to the company that they plan continue this practice indefinately. If we prove to them, through idiotic complaints like above, that people will take things for granted, and expect a mile, when they've only been told they'll get something between an inch and a mile, it may add some weight to the negative side of the balance. I hope not.

Anyway, fixing the billing system IS directly contributing to improving the quality of the game for us. They're fixing the bugged, crappy, login interface that M$ saddled them with, and giving us something decent.

So plz, if you were thinking about whining about this, STFU!
kthxbye


Je-Tze

[Jugu]

Nice IBN, it'll do for me :D

Gotta agree with Tyrion's excellent post though, a couple of concurring things arise from that:

1) Sick to death of constantly hearing about the disparity in crits between melee and mage - 'X meleer crits for 2k waah waah, my mage only crits for 700 waah waah'. NO, we DON'T as a rule. There is one mob in Caul, ONE, on which that is possible; the Doomshark. There are a few more in VoD. The rest, I'm sorry to tell you, elicit very modest crit results and yes, I am assuming a vuln + gossamer + ar/cs/cb weapon every time.

If you wish to talk about damage OVER TIME, then that is a different argument entirely but, please, no more uninformed bleating about single, largely non-existant strikes.

2) The healing point Tyrion made is HUGE! I'm always surprised that more isn't made of that. You poor, poor, put-upon mages get to wear as much al as the heaviest tank (utterly ridiculous) and insta-heal in the time it takes for the animation with a virtual guarantee of success - ludicrously simple and virtually FOOL-proof with decal. Whereas the other classes have to go through the totally unreliable 'stop fighting, stand, heal, go back to fighting, oops hit again, stop fighting, stand...'. Or worse, the dreaded 'switch-out' if you're a hybrid with spec Life (a la moi) and use that for your heals. Doesn't sound so bad? Try it and see, in a pressure situation. Wouldn't be so bad if every time you pressed a button/key it happened like it's supposed to - but it doesn't. Sometimes it's lag, sometimes it's just unresponsive.

Mage-hater? No, not really, I wouldn't play a pure one in an eternity, I grant you that. Just fed up with hearing from the ignorant, bleating few who are the catalyst for some unneeded changes.

Which is by no means most of you.

/em rant off :)

[Gerient]

Still havent heard about the CB in PvP... does this %500 mean instant death?

[Kossuth]

Mage-hater? No, not really, I wouldn't play a pure one in an eternity, I grant you that. Just fed up with hearing from the ignorant, bleating few who are the catalyst for some unneeded changes.

Despite never having posted a comment about it I have never really understood people arguing that a weapon costing 4 pts or even 16 should do anywhere near the damage of one costing 28 pts. Currently the only thing that war has going is flexibility (and lets be honest I change casting implements constantly in VoD nowadays). Don't get me wrong thats useful but it needed to be a lot better than that for a +12 to +24 difference! Arguing that anyone who complains that their mage who spends 28 pts on their killing skill should be damn better than someone who spends 4 (grief/life/ua for example!) means the person is a whiner really just reflects on the fact that you have an advantage and denigrate anyone who would seek to redress that balance.

The point system is simple if you pay 4 pts for a killing weapon you should be FAR worse at killing than the person who pays 28 pts.

/sarcasm on

But I'm sure you can understand that if you're being honest about it.

/sarcasm off

[Jugu]

The point I made was with regard to perceived disparity between critical hits, irrespective of the point cost factor. Melees do not hit as hard as is constantly made out, as people only seem to refer to extremes on singular mobs. That is all. You want to enter into a skill point debate - do it with someone else. There are a multitude of other factors to consider in association with your 'oh-so-appalling' 28 point cost that I really don't want to attempt to explain.

You might like to consider, however, your line 'The point system is simple if you pay 4 pts for a killing weapon you should be FAR worse at killing than the person who pays 28 pts.' Don't worry, we are; to make it effective I needed to not only spend a further 16 points specializing Life, but also a shed-load more xp in it to make it viable. You start out with 100 Self, not to mention Endurance. That's the tip of the iceberg, I said I didn't want to get into trying to justify it and I won't. Getting a vast majority to look deeper at why something is as it is and not just at the surfaced, perceived blatant abnomalies is beyond what my time is worth.

Incidentally, switching casting implements is an absolute world away from equipping said same implement from shield + weapon wielding combat mode.

And Gerient - reread the letter. It states clearly that that particular change is applicable to PvM only.

[Dom on TD]

Well, none of this will affect me, but since the last 3 patches seemed to target me with a huge bullseye, I won't complain. I do have a question tho. Why can't I use a wet towel as a weapon? I'd love to pop people in the butt for 0-1 pts of damage in PKlite with it :D . Then you could give us a PKlite arena that looks like a locker room. OK, maybe not the arena, but I'd still like to see people being chased with wet towels.

[Hemorhage]

rotflmao

[tailoo the grea]

Its nice your giveing some attention to mages, but I think You should put more focus into life mages. IMO war mages are fine.

[zathros]

Originally posted by Ibn
A couple comments here...

First, I'm seeing some possible overreaction to the Crippling Blow and Critical Strike changes, with folks thinking that these improvements will mean instant death from monsters casting spells. It's important to remember that few -- if any! -- monsters have CB or CS imbues on their war magic attacks. I do not believe that any current monsters have these.

Regarding base crits, let's take a look at Ilservian's Flame, Flame Bolt 7. This spell does 110-180 damage and, pre-event, crits from 165-235. After the July event, crits will be 200-270, a 35 point increase. This is more damage, yes, but not the 500% increase that you could see from a CB-imbued wand in PvM combat. Also, remember that without CS, crits only occur about 5% of the time.

[...]

I don't think that monsters (that I fight) crit with magic at all anymore. I used to take occasional hits for 200+ from VoD Virindi. The last 700 times I've been hit for over 110 with level 7 spells, but not died, none of the hits have been over 180. This isn't proof, but it's strong evidence.

[KriegPfeil]

Originally posted by Mildly amused
This isnt a giant leap but a small step - in the wrong direction. We have exactly three high-end (places where the majority of loot drops are tier 6) hunting areas currently in game: Caul, Lacuna, VoD. Currently dominated by mages, mages, mages/archers (for ease of use, I call those who use war magic to kill mages).

The skill cost argument makes no sense. In order to be meaningful there had to be a skill or a combination of skills that -at the same cost- combine to an equally viable template, as in: war magic + 60 skill points ~ dagger + 84 skill points. Sadly there isnt. Basically you dont suffer any disadvantages for spending all the skill credits on war magic, so the advantages should not be as overwhelming as they are today.

What would get the game almost perfectly balanced would be a opportunity cost aprroach. A mage spends 28 of his 88 skill credits on war magic, leaving him with 60. A dagger user spends 4 leaving him with 84. To compensate for this difference, war magic should do 84/60 of the damage dagger does, 40% more. Balancing like this would make the attack skills roughly equally desirable. Balancing -and I use the word in the loosest sense imaginable- like you do will leave you with a game with lots of mages, some archers, few swords and nothing else.

I hope you are willing to for once check what your changes will mean to the level 90+ gameplay and act on it - in the not too unlikely event that the mages, mages and mages/archers imbalance will shift a tiny bit further in favor of mages. And dont necessarily raise the DoT of the physical attackers. Give them a high-end playground that favors them in the same way that the three current ones favor mages and go from there.

I also suggest that -if you are hellbent to look at skill credit cost before anything else- you dont forget melee defense. It costs the same 20 credits to spec as does life magic. And while life magic is currently *the* make-or-break skill on high-end content melee defense is somewhere between optional and unimportant on the same content. Its long, damn long overdue that somebody without melee defense takes significantly more damage than someone who has it specced. Make melee (and missile) attacks on high-end mobs much more common, more dangerous and make it hollow, so melee defense makes the difference and not banes and prots.

Dont get me wrong: If you look at war magic alone, both of these changes make sense. However if you look at the big picture you made the dominant kill skill even stronger. Since you took over AC the game is moving in the right direction with remarkable speed but your 'we cater to mages first and to anybody else later in the unlikely event we should happen to find the time'-fetish is ticking me off.

Just kind of wanted to bump this. I thought that this was an excellent post. It is quite frequently that my archer who has melee d spec and magic d trained, but both of them maxed takes more damage than my mage who has no melee d at all, with spec magic d that isn't even that close to being maxed. It doesn't feel right to me, but it is what happens on a regular basis.

[Ibn]

Originally posted by Gerient
Still havent heard about the CB in PvP... does this %500 mean instant death?

The LttP clearly states, twice in fact, that the CB and CS increases are only for PvM. The only change that will impact PvP is the change in the base skill range required for maximum CB and CS effects.

[Jinnsman]

Originally posted by Gerient
Still havent heard about the CB in PvP... does this %500 mean instant death?

read the article. the change to crit frequency and damage are ONLY in PvM. PvP will not be changed.

---

While i must say that a mage will never do as much damage as my archer when they are both beating on the same monster that has been imped and vulned with VII's, mages in general are much too strong! the whiner in me says please don't nerf my mage, and i do hate critting for less than a regular hit, my mage is still my most powerful character.

<My mage and archer are both lvl 90>
The fact that my mage enjoys the same AL as my archer, now benifits from melee defense as much as my archer, can heal instantly via stam to health (1-3 are very fast and great for tight spots), makes the mage far superior. My mage can debuff vuln AND attack a critter for 300-700 per hit hunting on caul. My archer on the other hand (same level as the mage btw) cannot debuff monsters, does 40-100 damage per hit if using rending and monster not debuffed, and has to go to peace mode -> use heal kit (animation time) -> and back to attack just to heal! When my archer hunts in a fellow, and there is a mage that is nice enough to imp and vuln, my archer can do insane damage and outkill the mages, however.

My conclusion. The fix to mages is nice, but the character class does not need the love. My mage is always the character of choice when hunting caul/vod. My archer just lacks the survivability. My mage can solo parts of caul, archer cant even dream of that yet (due to inability to vuln/imp).

[Myk]

Please don't bother with the aegis for archers. its a huge waste of time unless it can be add to weepings.

I am getting very tired of waiting for archer improvements as the things you have done havent helped at all.

What you need to do is this

Increase arrow speed, arrows go about as fast as I could throw a rock. Do people at Turbine realize arrows fly at a high rate of speed?

Increase the area of impact of arrows to help cut down on the zxc twitch.

Instead of adding the aegis ability to bows add it to a ......... RAIMENT ......... that would be the best option for missile weapon users. Give it a 300 base bow/xbow/TW requirement to wear


Until the above can be done then you shouldnt waste one moment on "fixing" missile weapons.

Also I see IBN reply to all the mage stuff but havent seen anything worth notes about all the feed back on this archer "fix"

[Holey]

Thanks for the clarification of Monster crits Ibn.

There was just no sense of the factors involved before. The changes seem totally reasonable, but before we knew factors and multipliers instant LS was a reasonable fear ;)

[Ibn]

Originally posted by Myk
Increase arrow speed, arrows go about as fast as I could throw a rock. Do people at Turbine realize arrows fly at a high rate of speed?

We looked into that a few months ago -- we can't see any way to do it without months of re-engineering the missile attack system.

Increase the area of impact of arrows to help cut down on the zxc twitch.

We tried this, tested it a bit, it was terrible. Half the time the new area of impact meant you'd hit yourself when the missile left the launcher. There might be another way to do this, we're still looking into it.

Two things are important to note with regards to this change -- first off, the damage of a max loot max tinkered AR bow is often comparable to that of a Weeping Bow. Adding this property to such a bow makes it considerably better against mages. Secondly, while this, like the Aegis, was initially designed for PvP use, we expect that it will also see use in PvM combat against war-heavy creatures.

I find the attitude of, "If it doesn't fix every known problem with archery in PvP, don't even bother," to have little value. Particularly considering a number of our potential fixes require resources that will be dedicated to the billing transition for the next few events.

[Myk]

If a max damage, max tinkerable AR bow is compareable to a weeping then you need to increase the drop rate of ws 3-4 130 mod bows. I lost 25 bows before I got my 130 mod AR bow. Now people are going to need 2 AR bows.....1 with the aegis ability and that carp of a melee penalty and one normal one.

keep inmind that 290s come in less than 130 mod now and will never reach the max mod of 166 for bows.

As for re-engineering the way missile weapons works I would rather see that done and take sometime to do than see these fixes that really fix nothing. heck stop doing these fixes and put a true missile weapon fix in the X-pack. Then let us know that your adding this to the x-pack and I am sure you will get many people not mind waiting for a real fix, I know I wouldnt mind waiting if I knew it was coming and how exactly it was going to be changed.


Please rethink this stuff as it isnt really helpful. Oh and it might be ok in PvM IF the monster your fighting has no melee attack. If it has a melee attack then having a 10% penalty to my melee def isnt a good idea. 395 base melee - 10% (39.5pnts rounded to 40) = 355 base.......that just isnt good.

[Lutieus]

Ibn, has there been any progress on adding arc-style arrow physics? IMO that would be the greatest fix by far. I know the billing transition has eaten up a lot of engineer time; really I'm just wondering if it's still on the way, or if it's been axed, or something else.

Slick move not making the bow-aegis change take up a tinker. Any chance you'd rethink that extra melee d penalty?

[cstanleytech]

Originally posted by Jinnsman
read the article. the change to crit frequency and damage are ONLY in PvM. PvP will not be changed.

---

While i must say that a mage will never do as much damage as my archer when they are both beating on the same monster that has been imped and vulned with VII's, mages in general are much too strong! the whiner in me says please don't nerf my mage, and i do hate critting for less than a regular hit, my mage is still my most powerful character.

<My mage and archer are both lvl 90>
The fact that my mage enjoys the same AL as my archer, now benifits from melee defense as much as my archer, can heal instantly via stam to health (1-3 are very fast and great for tight spots), makes the mage far superior. My mage can debuff vuln AND attack a critter for 300-700 per hit hunting on caul. My archer on the other hand (same level as the mage btw) cannot debuff monsters, does 40-100 damage per hit if using rending and monster not debuffed, and has to go to peace mode -> use heal kit (animation time) -> and back to attack just to heal! When my archer hunts in a fellow, and there is a mage that is nice enough to imp and vuln, my archer can do insane damage and outkill the mages, however.

My conclusion. The fix to mages is nice, but the character class does not need the love. My mage is always the character of choice when hunting caul/vod. My archer just lacks the survivability. My mage can solo parts of caul, archer cant even dream of that yet (due to inability to vuln/imp).

You are not playing a mage if you have melee d you are playing a hybrid and hybrids have and continue to be overpowered.
Pure mages on the other hand can do with some love so please come back after you play as a pure mage and then try and restate your argument that mages do not need love.

[Mildly amused]

Originally posted by Myk
If a max damage, max tinkerable AR bow is compareable to a weeping then you need to increase the drop rate of ws 3-4 130 mod bows. I lost 25 bows before I got my 130 mod AR bow.

The chance of losing 25 bows in a row while trying to imbue is less than 0.004%. I actually lost 21 in a row but were both not the norm. On the other hand, I am a casual player and have more than 10 bows which are either 166 mod or started 130 mod Work 4 or less and wait for the final tinks. When the damage on racial weapons was slightly raised a few months ago, ua, dagger and staff peeps had to collect and imbue a completely new arsenal. So please dont expect everything in the game to be spoonfed to you.

Aegis on missile weapons is an option and you should at least give it a try before crying havoc.

[Myk]

Originally posted by Mildly amused
The chance of losing 25 bows in a row while trying to imbue is less than 0.004%. I actually lost 21 in a row but were both not the norm. On the other hand, I am a casual player and have more than 10 bows which are either 166 mod or started 130 mod Work 4 or less and wait for the final tinks. When the damage on racial weapons was slightly raised a few months ago, ua, dagger and staff peeps had to collect and imbue a completely new arsenal. So please dont expect everything in the game to be spoonfed to you.

Aegis on missile weapons is an option and you should at least give it a try before crying havoc.

I play for about 25-35 hrs a week and do nothing but loot hunt and quest. I loot hunt the dires, high level olthoi dungeons, and other places. I kill EVERYTHING that crosses my path while I loot hunt and I have yet to find a WS 3-4 130 mod bow in the last 3 months. So finding one isn't as easy as you try to make it.

I don't expect things to be spoon-fed to me. I have been playing an archer as my main for 2.5 years and learned to hunt him out near sanct when that was THE archer spot. So I think I have some idea what missile weapon users have seen during that time and how it needs to be fixed. Fixing something that needs to be fixed isn't asking to be spoon-fed, it's pointing out the obvious over and over because somehow the obvious is being over looked.

the chance of losing 25 bows in a row as slight BUT it did happen and could happen again. It's something I do not want myself or anyone else to have to endure. Plus with 290 wields being less than 130 mod now and IBN comparing the weeping to a max mod (130) it makes me think that they didnt think this out completely. They should of comapred the weeping to a 158-162 Mod bow as thats more inline with the weapons that drop now.

Again please just wait until the X-pack to put in the missile weapon fixes and do them right one time instead of halfway or wrong several times. In the end doing it right once will cost less dev time than doing it several times.

[Jinnsman]

Originally posted by cstanleytech
You are not playing a mage if you have melee d you are playing a hybrid and hybrids have and continue to be overpowered.
Pure mages on the other hand can do with some love so please come back after you play as a pure mage and then try and restate your argument that mages do not need love.

Hello?!! A hybrid mage at lvl 90 will be WEAKER than a pure mage at the same level, especially in VOD/CAUL. Why? Because I have spent XP on melee defense (which does nothing for me in caul/vod) that could have been spent on raising my war/life/creature. Also, I have only War spec, a pure would have life or creature spec by lvl 90. Yet even with my lower war/life/creature skills I find that my mage is MUCH more powerful and surviveable than my archer of the same level in both VOD and CAUL.

Please reread my post, think about it, and come back with a valid statement and/or argument.

[Ryu_Masamune]

Ibn -

Just reintroduce the old bug about having 4 layers of clothing that is imped and baned cancelled the whole thing out that archers used to exploit so much in PvP. That'll make them uber again.

I remember archers aiming middle and one shotting people left and right.... ahhh.. the memories.

[Astral_Dominae]

Originally posted by Ryu_Masamune
Ibn -

Just reintroduce the old bug about having 4 layers of clothing that is imped and baned cancelled the whole thing out that archers used to exploit so much in PvP. That'll make them uber again.

I remember archers aiming middle and one shotting people left and right.... ahhh.. the memories.

people thought that there was such a bug, but in reality it was the fact that underwear didnt cover the girth even tho in the description it said it did

[cstanleytech]

Originally posted by Jinnsman
Hello?!! A hybrid mage at lvl 90 will be WEAKER than a pure mage at the same level, especially in VOD/CAUL. Why? Because I have spent XP on melee defense (which does nothing for me in caul/vod) that could have been spent on raising my war/life/creature. Also, I have only War spec, a pure would have life or creature spec by lvl 90. Yet even with my lower war/life/creature skills I find that my mage is MUCH more powerful and surviveable than my archer of the same level in both VOD and CAUL.

Please reread my post, think about it, and come back with a valid statement and/or argument.
Not really Jinnsman.
For example sword user can raise Str to hit harder and an archer can just raise coord but not a mage.
Also melee/missle players can tinker their weapons dmg modifier and base dmg but a mage has no such option with wands to increase the dot per shot for war magic.
What a mage hits for at level 90 - 126 will change little except with fewer resists and or fizzles.

[Zero_Washu]

I think it stinks. I think it also shows how little the developers pay attention to the game.

War magic on MOBS does not need an increase. You already purposely cater to the macro/chain whores and this simply makes that even louder and clearer.

The player mages needed a boost, that much is true. From the inept attempts to make the mobs more challenging you nuked War magic from its rightful place as the number one dealer of damage. A world full of x-thousand hitpoint mobs is stupid, places like VOD and CAUL have no LORE based reasons to exist, instead relying totally on the incessant need to be number 1.

Nearly every damn creature is an archmage. Now you want to compound that insult to make them even sillier? Has it ever occured to you that some abilities should be player only as to set them apart?

I keep playing this game and wondering why. I know the whys, and when they finally give up I can follow and watch Turbine games always been the least played in the industry simply because of their inability to do things right.

* PS: I fully expect a ban for this, but don't care either. It only proves the point.

[Lokania]

Originally posted by Ibn
[Particularly considering a number of our potential fixes require resources that will be dedicated to the billing transition for the next few events.

I find it incredibly amazing that you would put such an insulting comment in print. How can you possibly tell us, your paying customer base, that our level of expectation can not be met due to an internal issue. I have worked for years and been through many billing changes due to corporate merges. Never ONCE would we have told our customers, "Sorry, we can't meet your needs this month. Our resources must be used elsewhere.", or, "Sorry, your order of a dozen bolts will be replaced by eight this month. We are using the other four to fix our office furniture. However, you will be billed for the entire original order. Have a nice day."

Yes, we are not guarenteed the amount of monthly content; however, we have a level of expectation. If that level could not be maintained with the resources at hand, then perhaps a monthly price increase should have been considered to provide us with monthly content, pay for billing changes and create an expansion pack. Oh, wait. There was an increase. For those reasons.

[Vlad Morbius]

I find the attitude of, "If it doesn't fix every known problem with archery in PvP, don't even bother," to have little value. Particularly considering a number of our potential fixes require resources that will be dedicated to the billing transition for the next few events.

I run a large manufacturing company. In doing so we have faced many internal changes as well as manufacturing hurdles. I would never expect a paying customer or a contract to suffer because I am unwilling to hire additional persons to meet my requirements. In a competative business world this would end all future hope of ever gaining new business, and quite likely the loss of current business.
I can tell you without prejudice that if I ever heard an employee tell a customer anything along this line ...they would be kicking stones down the road in a heartbeat.

It is not our responsibility to pay for the changes needed in billing and most certainly not our burden to pay for this with poor or limited content due to mismanagement on Turbines behalf.

Just how much new business can you expect with this kind of total lack of respect to paying customers.

I feel bad for you IBN, you face a daunting challenge here, but it just wasn't a smart thing to say.

For shame :eek:

[Ibn]

Please keep in mind that the billing change, and our resulting ability to remove Passport and the Zone from our login system, has been frequently requested -- nay, demanded -- by your fellow players on these forums and elsewhere. The Billing Migration is not merely an "internal issue". This is a major upgrade which will directly provide features and changes that have been requested by our customers.

[Myk]

make sure you do it right, the loss of even one active account wont cut it. Turbine as has ZERO margin of error in this change. As has been posted many many many times.....some people do not have access to CD keys due to issues beyound thier own control and losing accounts won't be tolerated.

I know for a fact if I were to lose even one account I will cancel all my accounts and NEVER play any game that Turbine is involved in, no matter how cool or good the game looks. I just want to stress how this matters to me and most likely some other folks, as I am sure I am not the only person with concerns about this considering some of the issues that have evolved with past changes to the game.

[Jinnsman]

Originally posted by cstanleytech
Not really Jinnsman.
For example sword user can raise Str to hit harder and an archer can just raise coord but not a mage.
Also melee/missle players can tinker their weapons dmg modifier and base dmg but a mage has no such option with wands to increase the dot per shot for war magic.
What a mage hits for at level 90 - 126 will change little except with fewer resists and or fizzles.

Refuting your original argument I see, good for you!

Also, skill does indeed make a difference to the amount of damage done, even by a mage when using imbued weapons. So, in VOD or CAUL, using my CB staff, my mage will have a lower DOT than your 'pure' mage due to a lower skill level. In addition, since you will be able to spec life or creature, your ability to debuff a creature goes up (significantly) allowing you to be even stronger.

Back to my original argument. My observation is that my lvl 90 mage is significantly more powerful, self-sufficient, and surviable than my lvl 90 Archer in VOD/CAUL. Those locations will benifit the most by the new changes being made, yet mages need the change the least, based on my observation. (For the complete explanation, go back a page or two and re-read the original post).

I am not complaining, however, since I enjoy my mage, and being able to be even more powerful is always a plus! It would be nice, however to create a bit more balance. Primarily, i find it frustrating that all characters are forced to be a hybrid mage to survive. I would love to spec melee, magic, and bow on my archer and have no magic whatsoever. unfortunately, that template it doomed to never be self sufficient and will always underperform compared to a hybrid that uses magic. But i am rambling....

Congrats on the revelation!

[Anaximander]

Still no answer on the unfinished item magic improvements?

[Jinnsman]

Originally posted by Myk
make sure you do it right, the loss of even one active account wont cut it. Turbine as has ZERO margin of error in this change. As has been posted many many many times.....some people do not have access to CD keys due to issues beyound thier own control and losing accounts won't be tolerated.

I know for a fact if I were to lose even one account I will cancel all my accounts and NEVER play any game that Turbine is involved in, no matter how cool or good the game looks. I just want to stress how this matters to me and most likely some other folks, as I am sure I am not the only person with concerns about this considering some of the issues that have evolved with past changes to the game.

PFFTTTTTT Children use arguments like this to try put a little more muscle behind their statement. Such an argument is usually accompanied by stamping feet, jumping up and down, even crying uncontrollably. In the end, idle and usually hollow threats to quit just make people look juvenile and foolish. While I agree with your sentiment, your second paragraph was silly and distracted from your very valid point. I am so tired of these childish tantrums! If something happens that makes you want to quit, then quit and leave the rest of us alone - parents don't like tantrums and neither do we (ok occasionally there is some valid entertainment value - which I must confess that this post provided else I would not have taken the time to write this...)

Hmm I must be a bit cranky today!

*Edited some very poor spelling... oops!*

[bertman]

I hope everything goes well with the billing changes, so I can get rid of Zone. That would be a good thing. I won't quit or cancel any accounts if everything doesn't go exactly right. I don't speak for many, but for myself I am happy to pay 14 $ a month to help support a game that I love more than television. If you need some of that 14 $ to upgrade the billing system, I'm OK with that.

The difference in the amount of new content from one patch to patch doesn't bother me either. If you can't come up with a new Gaerlan quest each month, I won't cancel any accounts or quit the game. I'm sure the expansion pack will yield a healthy amount of new content. Right now, I am having somewhat of a fun time chasing down Coral Viceroys and Magma Exarchs to get the rewards. That was useful content to me, and I thank you for it. If you need some of that 14 $ to help finance the expansion pack, I'm OK with that.

I was looking at the war magic changes with some interest, and I don't know what some of these people are talking about. I play a mage exclusively,and I only know from what I see. When questing in groups of melees and mages, the melees always get the kills. I know this because if I go to open a corpse, it tells me I don't have the right. I also see a message telling me I need a valid target for my spell just as I get ready to set one off. I wind up, and the monster is dead before I can cast. So I target another monster, and it too dies before I can cast. Every once in a while, I can get a hit in, but not much more than one time in 15 will I get enough to get the credit for the kill. All I know is, the mage is handicapped by wind-up time for wars and regens, and takes an unholy beating from monsters that hit. But if you want to help me out a little, thanks, and if not, well I'm not going to quit or cancel any accounts.

[Ivanhoe]

Please keep in mind that the billing change, and our resulting ability to remove Passport and the Zone from our login system, has been frequently requested -- nay, demanded -- by your fellow players on these forums and elsewhere. The Billing Migration is not merely an "internal issue". This is a major upgrade which will directly provide features and changes that have been requested by our customers.



This is great. That the HORRIBLE MSN login system (.net etc) Will be finally going away. Thank GOD for it.

However i fail to understand how the players are paying 30% more per month to play AC to counter these upcoming changes and the future of ac And are still told that there isnt enough resources to Fix this and that because those resources are doing other things.


Get more resources with the 30% more money that turbine is making.


And for people who havent caught on.

Turbine can afford to lose 30% of its playerbase and they will still be exactly where they were 6 months ago with a bigger playerbase paying 9.99 a month.

Smaller playerbase but paying 12.95 a month.



Calculating lower population lets say turbine lost 5% during the price increase.

They still have a way to go before going into the evil negative red area to operate AC.

This means they can and will continue to operate as they have always done until more peopel quit the game. (a lot more)

[Thundercutter]

Granted, I've never had a aegis shield; so, I don't know the limitations on them but I thought the purpose was to give love to archers. Unlike many games, AC is not a class based system; so, the only way to determine that someone is an archer is for them to use a missile weapon. It makes sense to me that the aegis ability should therefore be on said missile weapon. It has been suggested that the ability be placed on jewelry or armor but wouldn't that mean that every type of character would have access to the ability, including mages?

Of course a suggestion could then be made that the imbue should have a reversed skill requirement; for example, it will not work for any character with over 15 points in any magic school. However, this would set a dangerous precendent: penalizing a character for actually having/training a skill. If it's done to mages, it will assuredly be done to other character types down the road.

If aegis has a built in limitation that limits its effectiveness for characters with magical ability, feel free to ignore this post.

[evolutionoccurs]

War magic changes sound absolutely awesome.

Now next item on agenda. Salvage packs arg. lol 58 bags of salvage is burdenous and a pack space killer.

[oxbow_td]

I find it amusing to see all the "mages already own the game" comments. I have a high level BM, life archer and sword. From personal experience I can say that playing the mage is not particularly fun in VOD and Caul.

Let's look at the math:

With a CS bow and approrpiate vulns, my archer will hit for 1000+ 50% of the time, with frequent super crits of 1792 points of damage. I am able to bring down 5000+ hp creatures with an average of 7 arrows, each of which is shot in about 1 second. Add in the time to land 2 spells (fester is not needed) and you have about 23 seconds to kill a VOD or high Caul monster.

With a CS bow and appropriate vulns, my mage will average about 300 points of damage. It take on average 20 level 7 war spells, plus two debuffs (vuln and fester) to kill a 5000+ hp creature. This is just shy of 1.5 minutes per kill, not including mana and health management.

So in VOD and Caul, the "overpowered" mage kills about 1/3rd as fast as the "broken" archer. Contrary to popular belief, I don't play a battlemage so I can vuln for archers and heal them when they get in trouble. I play one to kill things on my own.

About time mages got a boost to make them competetive on the super high HP monsters. I might start playing mine again.

[KriegPfeil]

Originally posted by oxbow_td
I find it amusing to see all the "mages already own the game" comments. I have a high level BM, life archer and sword. From personal experience I can say that playing the mage is not particularly fun in VOD and Caul.

Let's look at the math:

With a CS bow and approrpiate vulns, my archer will hit for 1000+ 50% of the time, with frequent super crits of 1792 points of damage. I am able to bring down 5000+ hp creatures with an average of 7 arrows, each of which is shot in about 1 second. Add in the time to land 2 spells (fester is not needed) and you have about 23 seconds to kill a VOD or high Caul monster.

With a CS bow and appropriate vulns, my mage will average about 300 points of damage. It take on average 20 level 7 war spells, plus two debuffs (vuln and fester) to kill a 5000+ hp creature. This is just shy of 1.5 minutes per kill, not including mana and health management.

So in VOD and Caul, the "overpowered" mage kills about 1/3rd as fast as the "broken" archer. Contrary to popular belief, I don't play a battlemage so I can vuln for archers and heal them when they get in trouble. I play one to kill things on my own.

About time mages got a boost to make them competetive on the super high HP monsters. I might start playing mine again.


The number of mobs that you do this type of damage with on is 8. 7 of them are at Vod and only 1 on Caul(Doomsharks). So why try to act like a what happens on a small minority of mobs is what always happens on every mob(also why say mages only do 300 damage, they do more on anything they are using the proper element on)? The types of mobs that you use CS weapons on instead of AR weapons are the ones that non mages are going to do the most damage on. The reason is simple, their armor is either very low or negative. Since armor doesn't effect war damage(which is a benefit 99% of the time) mages don't see any more damage on these mobs. Instead of just imperil and vulning them for non mages and enjoying the instant exp they get though alot of them come here and whine that they don't get the kills on these types of mobs.

And yes it is whining and crying that people who complain about this are doing. How does it make sense to do the most damage on everything but 8 mobs and then complain constantly about those 8 mobs. Mages didn't need a damage increase or a change to crits, but their constant bellyaching about it has caused it to be put in. Mages already one shotted most non Vod or Caul content with a rending wand, with the increase they are going to get to rending wands that make them level 6 vulns with 360 base skill it will be all non Vod/Caul content that they are one shotting. If you are playing a mage and feel underpowered then one of two things is true. Either you have no idea how other character types play and how much they damage mobs and take damage from them or you just don't know how to play your mage. I play my mage more now than my other characters. My mage is now 153, sword character is 166, and archer is 187. My mage is the lowest because he has never received exp from vassals and has been used to push mules.

When you have to start making obvious lies you shouldn't even bother posting. It just hurts the cause you are trying to support.

[Jinnsman]

Originally posted by oxbow_td
I find it amusing to see all the "mages already own the game" comments. I have a high level BM, life archer and sword. From personal experience I can say that playing the mage is not particularly fun in VOD and Caul.

Let's look at the math:

With a CS bow and approrpiate vulns, my archer will hit for 1000+ 50% of the time, with frequent super crits of 1792 points of damage. I am able to bring down 5000+ hp creatures with an average of 7 arrows, each of which is shot in about 1 second. Add in the time to land 2 spells (fester is not needed) and you have about 23 seconds to kill a VOD or high Caul monster.

With a CS bow and appropriate vulns, my mage will average about 300 points of damage. It take on average 20 level 7 war spells, plus two debuffs (vuln and fester) to kill a 5000+ hp creature. This is just shy of 1.5 minutes per kill, not including mana and health management.

So in VOD and Caul, the "overpowered" mage kills about 1/3rd as fast as the "broken" archer. Contrary to popular belief, I don't play a battlemage so I can vuln for archers and heal them when they get in trouble. I play one to kill things on my own.

About time mages got a boost to make them competetive on the super high HP monsters. I might start playing mine again.

I most certainly agree that my archer has the potential to do MUCH more damage than my mage. However, as a general rule, mages do much better. Take your archer out there and try to kill one of those monsters with only a rending bow (no debuffs, vulns, imp). Good luck! Your archer relies on a mage or is a high level hybrid to be able to do that type of damage. A mage on the other hand, can completely (and independently) debuff, vuln and kill a creature. Not to mention the ability to heal. I am certainly looking forward to doing more damage with my mage. It is irritating to debuff and vuln everything on radar and get no kills because the melees and archers kill everything.

I would still argue, however, that the mage is a better rounded and generally more powerful character in both support and offense. I think things break down when we look at the insane boost melee/archer characters get when a monster has been debuffed/imped/vulned by a mage. But that benifit is to those types is still due to magic, not the innate skill of the archer/melee.

[Silik]

Originally posted by Jinnsman






I would love to spec melee, magic, and bow on my archer and have no magic whatsoever. unfortunately, that template it doomed to never be self sufficient and will always underperform compared to a hybrid that uses magic.



Heh, try figuring out a template for spec /war/, melee, and magicD. You can at least /make/ a spec bow template like that, and it can be self-sufficient. Dual/triple spells and lore are very, very useful. And I know it can be done because I /have/ made a self-sufficient spec war, melee, magic. But now, try to imagine playing a mage that /can't/ take life. Try to imagine the pain of having to deal with mana. Without life. And then try complaining about being unable to have an defense archer, I'll find my violin around here somewhere.

[SirSargo]

Originally posted by Ibn
in the coming months more of our Engineering and Quality Assurance resources are going to be dedicated to the billing migration.

I have a little concern here due to the fact I just closed one of my accounts due to financial reasons.
This has not be a problem in the past if you generaly restarted your account with in a 6 month span but from the sounds of it posted else where it might not be possible anymore.

I don't plan on closing the Passport but i'm not sure this will be enough to protect the temorarly closed account???

Any help on this???

Thanks:confused:

[evolutionoccurs]

Dear Ibn.

LOL. Just read some of other posts and wanted to clarify.
War Magic Crit's are only being changed on PvM and not MvP right ? Sorry I'v never read anywhere if PvM / MvP are linked or seperate(in their damage control) . Just wanted to clarify cause if Mr Paradox can now hit for 450 pts that'd be horrible. lol.

[zathros]

Originally posted by evolutionoccurs
Dear Ibn.

LOL. Just read some of other posts and wanted to clarify.
War Magic Crit's are only being changed on PvM and not MvP right ? Sorry I'v never read anywhere if PvM / MvP are linked or seperate(in their damage control) . Just wanted to clarify cause if Mr Paradox can now hit for 450 pts that'd be horrible. lol.

I've been keeping logs since February, and haven't been crit by a monster with a war spell in that time. In the distant past, monsters used to crit with war, but I'm almost certain they don't anymore (at least the ones I fight). If there are any that do, they'll now crit for more. =X Be afraid, be very afraid.

[KsBabe]

I have a question or three, and maybe just a little whine,,lol
Applying aegis on bows, is it going to take the same formula as it does with the aegis shields?
And with Critters that throw war spells (which is the majority of them) do they have to have CB casting item too or is it they get it anyway as where a mage has to have a CB wand, staff, etc before they can get a chance at the 500% damage increase?
Now for the whine, when I am hunting on Caul facing biakas and Hellions, I get one or two shotted all the time. They dont need the increase, they do enough damage as it is! I have 300 hit points and to see them wiped away with one spell is something I dont think anyone likes to see, and now with the increase pending, there is more people going to be kissing lifestones throughout Dereth than ever before. Turbine are you wanting us to compete for the highest number of deaths now? lol
I hunt with my archer for the most part all the time, but if this is the case, even with the aegis applied bows, (which I think we should get more details on as to how much damage it absorbs from warspells and what is the basis for the absorbsion.) I will probably park her and learn to hunt a mage or go to hunting bugs that dont throw spells. I love hunting Caul and VoD but if this change is going to cause me to spend all the time rebuffing, burning plats, and kissing the lifestone only to have to rebuff once again, I will stop hunting those two places.
I suck at hunting a mage, yes I have one lvl 103, but I didnt hunt her to level her up, my daughter did, because I parked her at level 50 something when all the nerfs came around on mages and they lost their bonuses, drains, etc. so when my daughter asked to play her I said sure, she is yours, but with this patch I may have to take her back and learn to play her just so I can play at the places I have come to love to hunt!
I spec'ed life magic on my archer to give her a better chance of hunting VoD a couple patches ago, but with this new patch, I might as well go remove it, because it cant save my char from warspells.

Please turbine, give us some answers to these questions, because I know melee'ers, archers, etc all wants to know more details about the upcoming patch so we can better prepare for it!

Last question, when will we get our July teaser?

[Reign of Tears]

If you are going to redo some old low-mid level content, could you please move Yuan Hanzu in Ayan Baqur to a town better suited for the level of the Composite Bow quest. Ayan Baqur is now way to high for anyone actually interested in doing the quest. Heh, while you're at it, can you update the Comp Bow a little. ^_^

[cstanleytech]

Originally posted by Jinnsman
[B]
The fact that my mage enjoys the same AL as my archer, now benifits from melee defense as much as my archer, can heal instantly via stam to health (1-3 are very fast and great for tight spots), makes the mage far superior. B]
The fact is your not playing a mage you are playing a hybrid but feel free to claim you play a mage I will not stop you :)
Also I never refuted my original statement and it still stands though perhaps I could have made it clearer for you in that I meant that a pure mage will be weaker then a hybrid archer and melee on caul or vod.
Now when your hybrid mage and archer are each level 110+ post an update please and let us know how melee d on your hybrid mage and archer works on Caul or in the VoD solo and what their dot is as I would be interested in finding out.

[Trekman]

Well - time to rant again.....

Again, the three changes listed below will affect only War Magic spells landed in combat on monsters and War Magic spells cast by monsters on players. War Magic critical hits for Player-vs.-Player (PvP) combat will not change.

Dear Turbine,

I congratulate - you once again managed to p*ss Melees/ Archers off :

So you decided to make Crits of War Magic better.

Well - that is no big surprise considering that Mages apparently are your favorite templates. Ok - so a Mage will outdamage me Melee not 6-7 out of 10, but 8 out of 10 average (non-Olthoi) monsters, especially Quest Bosses.
But that is not the issue - I have become used to that fact and I am looking for niches where my axes are effective.

But the REAL slap into the face of each non-Mage is that the War Magic Crits are also being raised for MOBs - why that ?
Wasn't it possible to please your favorite clientele without harming all the others ?

I Life-Magic-less Melee am using my Life6 set of jewelry and clothes because I deny training Life Magic like everyone and their grandmother (I call that Diversity) and I do not use BuffBots to get Life7s.

What are your real intentions ? Are you trying to force us into standard, cookie-cutter, 3-school templates ?

I understand that I Melee am supposed to be weaker against Magic than against Melee attacks. That is ok. So I worked on getting as good as possible against Magic damage : My Magic Defense is as high as it can get when starting 10/10, and I frequently use the Aegis. So you cannot say that I only complain without taking care.

Why do you make MY everyday-PvM life harder just to please some Mages who complained about their Crits ?
I am not interested in PK, so I won't comment on whatever is decided and implemented there. But when you start once again to descriminate me (my template) in PvM for the sake of another template I simply have to get angry again....

I am aware that this rant will be ignored by Turbine (and probably flamed by Mages) once again : Just another Melee who is jealous of our beloved mages.... :rolleyes:
But at least it helped my blood pressure....;)

Edit : I know that basically those MOB Crits also will hit Mages. But due to their higher Magic Defense they are not as affected...

[zathros]

Originally posted by Trekman

But the REAL slap into the face of each non-Mage is that the War Magic Crits are also being raised for MOBs - why that ?
Wasn't it possible to please your favorite clientele without harming all the others ?

As I've posted before, monsters don't crit with war magic. Not even 5% of the time. Never. I'm going to stick by that position until a dev either confirms it, or tests it and denies it.

Of course there's always the possibility that my ranting will cause a dev to find the bug that makes monsters not crit and fix it. =X

[Tarasque]

Ibn and Turbine crew,
Am thoroughly delighted with the coming changes, Thank you thank you. As for the billing, bless you and take your time.. Hopefully you are planning for a much more efficient login process than what we have been burdened with through the twilight "ZONE". The changes for mages have been much needed (for a long time) and will be very much appreciated. I am actually excited to see patch day roll around (god what am I saying!!) ;)
I am not, however, looking forward to the 3-6 on one MvP crits I know I am gonna get smacked with but oh well, will keep life (and death) interesting :)

[Duel Ice]

I don't see anything here of any interest for a melee char, what I do see is making mages even more powerful.

[Some weird guy]

Sounds to me like the solo player just took a big nerf if some of these things go through... :(

Giving monsters that much power will nerf solo play.

As far as Aegis for archers, I have mixed emotions from diff sides.

PvM = Rock On!! TY! TY! TY! TY! TY! *air guitar*

PvP = Bleh, this will help nothing....and I mean that litterally. If you want to help archer PvP, give us the promised non-tracking missiles and an aegis like bracelet or ring (not a necklace though).

Actually, keep the Aegis stuff, just get the ball rolling on the "arc like" missiles...this is what we are all waiting for.....really.

[Madgic]

Not a good thing im seeing with the war magic!!!!!

Over the last few months Turbine has gradually increased Melee and Missile attacks to come into line with War magic. They have done a good Job and have made significant changes to ther types of characters in the game.

Im my clan im seing an influx of different styles of character and this I think makes the game work better for us all.

When you make your improvements to war magic you are going to take the whole of AC back into the OG ages except every new toon will be a BM. Please when you work out skill credit usage take into account that spec war on a mage is the equivalent to spec Bow and spec fletch on a bow toon so the credits are near to the same.

You spoke further of making war changes in PvP I noticed you sneaked it in further down the page and i also noticed it was in the in development stage, but we all know this will be your excuse for implimenting it by telling us we had fair warning.

Any increase in War magic in PvP HAS to be accompanied by a change in healing.... War mages can crit for way way over 200 now and most high level characters do not have health of much over 400. this means with the current healing skills a Meleer hit once is beeten, unless they can run and hide and even then, if when they are hidden you can get a heal off.

You were making progress turbine. Im my mind work on speed and accuracy of spells and Missile and work on a melee style evade for war spells for melee characters. surely with the speed of a war spell, skilled and fast meleers should have the ability to move out of the way withoiut having to physically try to over ride the sticky melee effect. Im happy to say you can't evade streaks, or even have a big magic evade penalty with strieks, but it seems silly that a mage now has the abilty to evade a swordie who is brandishing a 4' long sword but a swordie cant evade a 4" wide war spell. Magic Defence does not work im at max and rearly resist a toon over the level of about 100.

I know im not gonna get listened to here but ill keep trying LOL

Make healing better, Carry on your work with arrow pathing, Fix sticky melee.

On the bright side I love the game and hope no one takes any of these comments personally, you asked for feedback Im givin it.

[KF_AC]

Ibn,

Aegis effect needs to be comparable to what melees currently have. Nobody is going to carry a set of bows with Aegis, and one without. That's ridiculous, archers often have very low strength.

That the archer Aegis decreases Melee Defense is fine, but it needs to be a removable device, just like the shield is.

Please look into it

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

About time we got some mage love.

LOL... yeah, can't wait to see what you have to say when monsters send you back to the LS 20 times a day. :p

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

I guess posts that have such knowledge-based complaints/opinions such as his are such a contrast to the usual whiners someone couldn't take the heat.

How true! I presented two long posts that dealt with how inconsistent, illogical, unfair and biased Turbine's usage of character naming filters are, loaded with factual proof from dictionaries, links provided as further proof.... but they very conveniently got deleted, because it was a direct stab at the ruling class (Turbine), who think up all these absurd, mindless rules and regulations that make no sense.

When I asked why? Oh, they were Off-Topic for the thread they were posted in. Didn't bother to redirect them to the thread where they WOULD belong... no, that would've required brain power and forethought... just deleted. Too bad... who cares if you people spend hours gathering proof to make a matter known, if it makes Turbine look stupid, then sweep it under the rug and play the coward via saying nothing to anyone, hoping no one notices... make it go away, that's all that counts. Very sad.

So I asked, WHERE should I post it then? I was told, make a new thread! Oh... but...but... go to the bottom of this page, any page, and what does it say? It says: Forum Rules: You may not post new threads. DUH.

I rest my case.... this place is nuts.

Why does anyone bother to post anything to these forums? They release what they've already planned to do, and then ask us to comment on it.... AFTER it's been decided??? Why bother? No matter what any of us say, the changes are already going to happen... lol What a complete waste of time then, right?

Anyway, from the changes coming both in July and coming months, which will amount to basically ZERO, because billing (getting their money) is more important than anything else... far more important than providing service to those who pay good money for it, and deserve new stuff. If they're short-staffed as a result, hire more people so you can do that, AND also create content for the paying customer!

But wait, didn't you (Turbine) hire a qualified firm to implement the new billing system? So what are they doing for their money? Evidentally not very much if you have to devote all the devs to the billing problems. I'd say that was a waste of money then, if the people you hired to do the job, don't have the people to do the job. Duh.

Nope, I'm getting very, very, very disenchanted with all of this blatant neglect of the customers. You always do whatever YOU want, and never what the paying customer wants. You started out on a good footing, but your downfall was in making too many promises too fast, and now you can't live up to them... and the people who have been EXPECTING all these new promises, are now seeing how you dance around and neglect their implementation, because you need to focus on other things that an outsourced firm who was hired to do a job, can't do without stealing the people who provide customer support, etc.

Very bad management overall... even your new +Envoys who started off not so great, then seemingly started to look not too bad over time, are now showing signs that it was all a facade, and really are no better educated about the game, and especially sorely lacking in people skills... and when taking them to task, instead of discuss it genuinely with someone who also "used" to do their job, and who did it FIRST before them, they treat you with contempt, like you're unimportant and whatever you think, is unimportant and meaningless. That shows that Envoys are ignorant, at best.

Oh sure.. the masses who don't post here, who are oblivious to what's going on behind Turbine's Iron Curtain, will continue to play always hoping and waiting and waiting and waiting for things to get better. Well, we've all had the wool pulled over our eyes for years now.. I guess I'd have to admit you're very lucky. Most or all other devs of online games haven't fared so well, watching their games die off in popularity.... how much longer do you think AC can last, if you keep pushing things back, and placing more emphasis on what YOU want, as opposed to what the PAYING customer(s) want? Time will tell, but like I always said, "Nothing lasts forever", and eventually AC will also DIE.

I know it's near death for myself.... I can't put up with this for very much longer.

:( Unhappy :mad:

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MaxV_FF
[B]TheKnight,

All I can say, in the defense of mages, is to look at the skill credits required to damage (ie, compare the cost of sword to war magic, then look at the damage). Lets not speak about all the other skills necessary, as the changes are to war magic alone.

War Magic Spec: 28 Credits
Sword Spec: 16

Magic D Spec: 12
Melee D Spec: 20

You forgot healing. You have Life magic for that, and way, way more efficient than any healing kit... even if you're down to 1HP, you can heal by clicking your mouse. Not so with Melee. Add 6 more credits for healing.

Plus, in your scenario, I'll add trained mana C,

Why thank you. Now let's add it all up.

War, Magic D spec with Mana C = 46
Sword, Melee spec with Healing and Mana C = 48

Hmmmm... costs MORE than a mage! Amazing when you do the math properly, huh? But then you said Healing spec for the melee, which adds yet another 6 to the total = 54, 8 more than a mage, for way less damage. How long does it take a mage to change attack type.. say, fire to acid to lightning... why, a click of a button. For the sword user, he has to go thru a series of body motions, basically removing one sword (which changes the positioning of his stance while holding shield, then going through those motions again to equip the new sword.... either that or he has to go out of battle mode, making him more open to attack, so he can change weapons. Quite a difference. The same would apply to a mage if they had to change wands all the time... but they don't, because they have everything they need right there at the click of the mouse. So who has the advantage? Hmmm?

and life for the mage (even though most mages have speced life), and healing spec for the melee.

That is an additional 18 for the mage, and 10 fof the melee.

All totaled, that is 58 credits for the mage, while only 46 for the melee.

Nope, check above. Adding spec life for a mage makes the total (20 more... 12+8) = 60, as opposed to 58 for the Melee. But WAIT once again, if you have life for buffing purposes, it's only fair the melee have it too.. but he can't afford to spec it, so we'll only add 12, making the grand total 60 for you, and 70 for the melee. Either way you look at it, Melee costs more than a mage, overall, but by comparison to abilities, is obsolete and useless.

Now look at the current solo damage for the mage, and the solo damage for the melee. With rending weapons, the melee will win more than my level 131 mage. Keep in mind, this isn't even with a mage vulning FOR them! Add in the vulns and there is no question who will get the kill.

I guess you must be the laughing stock in your allegiance if at 131, you can't dominate a meleer, in any mode or attack method.

Adding a few bonuses for war magic I think is long overdue.

No, it's total absurdity, which even my level 179 mage friend agrees with. It's pure overkill.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dilvish-MT

But on Caul, VoD and Alphus melee outkill mages consistantly. Melee are hitting for 1000 against a vulned imped mob and critting for far more, but mages are hitting for 500 and critting for 400.

Who is providing the Vulns, allowing the melees to hit for 1000? Why, the mages are! lol. Take the mages away, and the melees will hit for 50-100, as opposed to the mage hitting for 500+. Always amazes me how people never see the WHOLE picture when making a statement like the above. The mages and melee are fellowed to gain quick XP, the mages vuln, the meleers kill while the mages heal the melees. So again, very clearly, the mages have the advantage. Mages can SOLO VoD, while Melees cannot (for the most part) unless they are very high level and spec'd in Life Magic to cast their own vulns.

This fix to crits is a long time in coming.

No it isn't. Like I stated earlier.. it's total and complete absurdity! My high level mage has agreed with this for years now. It's overkill and needs to be toned down. By always increasing mage's abilities, Turbine is pushing away more and more who prefer Melee play, thus turning Asheron's Call into Mageron's Call.

BTW I have a 160 level UA ,180 melee-mage, 130 BM, 126 sword and 130 xbow so I feel I know what I am talking about.

I have a bunch of high levels also.. means nothing in this thread.

Changing the curve for onus spells to max out at 360 instead of 400 makes a ton of sense since almost no mages have a base war of 400, which is almost impossible to get.

It's not "almost" impossible to get, it "is" impossible to get. This again just proves how flawed the system has been since the start of AC. All bows used to have an Attack Bonus Modifier listed on them... until one day a Dev finally realized it had NO effect whatsoever, and they removed it from the specs that we see. Now we see that another curve was set at 400, which IS impossible to attain, and fixed so it can now be used. Makes you wonder how many other things are way off the scale of character abilities, eh? I bet there's a LOT... and the sad part is, not even the Devs know they're flawed.... as it's been there in the original hacked to shreds, code from day one.

Crits are most important for big mobs, like VoD, Caul and bosses like GMan, Mowen, etc. Right now all anyone ever wants mages for in those places is to vuln and imp because the real dmg belongs to the melee.

Exactly, hence why I said what I did. Remove the vulns that mages provide, and mages are STILL the most powerful solo class, bar none.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

Originally posted by Jinnsman

PFFTTTTTT Children use arguments like this to try put a little more muscle behind their statement. Such an argument is usually accompanied by stamping feet, jumping up and down, even crying uncontrollably. In the end, idle and usually hollow threats... ad nauseum

If Myk knew who I was IG, we'd probably not get along here either hehe.. but this time I'm gonna speak on his behalf and let you know that he's no "child", but an adult with a very valid point to make, which is likely backed by very many others (including myself) in this once (but no longer) fine game, where the customer was ALL and considered to be the livlihood of the Devs. But since Atari and others plunked a few million dollars into their coffers, to make other games which they will greatly profit from, it seems their entire attitude has changed, and they really do not care about the customer anymore. The more they say they're going to do, and then never do it... the more they're sending the LOUD message, that you, the customer.. are not important.

We will do what we want, we will take employees hired to improve this game, and put them on some other job, leaving you, the customer, with basically zero updates... and we will do it for as long as it takes for US to capitalize our profits, and YOU will PAY full price still.... like it or not.

I wonder what ALL the paying customers would have to say if they all came here and read it for themselves? I bet you'd see a mass exodus pretty soon. Yes, the actual children, the real ones.. the 10-15 year olds who play for free, because the monthly payment comes off Mom or Dad's Visa, will stay... Mom and Dad have no clue, and Junior wants to be a big Uber mage also one day.. or already is, and his ego couldn't bear it ending. Those are the ones who will be here, regardless. But those that actually pay for it out of their own pockets, might have some serious questions they want answered, and all Turbine would have in response is a bunch of forked-tongue double-speak in an attempt to dance around the issues and confuse through deceit at WHY it has to be this way... some would accept it and keep getting sucked in, but I bet a lot more would leave than we have ever seen before, simply because they've never BEEN to this forum to see what goes on!

Turbine knows only a very small handful actually read the groups... and if they did, probably wouldn't have the wherewithall or patience to keep up with it like those of us in here do, on a regular basis. It's too bad actually... people deserve to KNOW why their money is being misused... but then, we also voted for the nerd in the White House... er, actually, we voted for the "other" guy but the nerd got in anyway. lol... and on and on it goes... suckers abound, and the people who control the puppet strings count on them to foot the bills.

[coma_black]

i'm sorry but your billing migration has me scared.
i personally know how the billing issues are now and its silly.
i am praying that you have a better billing system than the zone.

i already lost 1 acct to the exsisting billing system and my friend recently almost lost his.

what kind of account security are we getting to ensure we don't lose 4 yrs worth of work and fun

[daemo_nn]

Ok, folks. One thing I believe to be true must be pointed out:

VoD - melee/archer HYBRID land
Caul - mage solo/group land

(NOTE: In the following clarification/flame/nonsense/whatever, "melee" refers to melees as well as archers)

Sure, your mage/archer can solo VoD/Caul (my melee can't b/c he is a one school tank), respectively, however, it isn't fair to compare mage and melee damage on Caul mobs. Nor is it fair to compare mage and melee damage in VoD.

This change was meant to improve mage DoT (that's DAMAGE OVER TIME, mmk? mmk). Not copy/paste numbers, melees still win in that department either way.

Currently, although (in VoD) mages may hit for a little more on a few mobs, melees hit FASTER (and, currently, crit more)

This is somewhat true in Caul, however not universally. Excluding Doomsharks, melee damage falls behind mage damage. Obviously. However, they still swing faster, getting more DoT. On a few mobs (Virindi, Biakas, Hellions, the "OMGASM XP producers"), mages still win, due to the large amount of war spells/debuffs thrown, as mages (typically) have higher HP (sometimes 70+ more!).

I play all 3 classes, mage, melee, and archer, by the way. My archers haven't reached my melee/mage yet, though (mage is 102, melee is 76, while my archers are 56 and 57), so my opinion may seem biased.

So... kwitcherwynen

[Madgic]

HIya me again,

Clearly Turbine need to do some more testing on the mage v melee issue.

I think perhaps they should create their own in game charaters, a mage and a melee, however both characters should be of equal abilities IE the Melee should be 3 school so it can cast its own buffs and should have good enough life magic to cast its own Vulns.

I know that afetr a few hours of watching the meleer get smacked about and the mage cruise away with ease they would look at the "prefered mage state" and realise mages need no more love. I am speaking from experience, I have a 185 bow who has maxed and specialised magic D and bow and has life magic up in the high 300s who gets owned in VOD and out on caul.
I also have a level 130 mage with spec war, meleD trained LP trained and wears nice looking armour not good AL who lasts in caul easy and in VOD rearly gets hurt.

You may say that my bow toon would be better against Olthoi or tuskers well you would think so, but no my mage owns those too.

With the new war magic changes its going to become increasingly difficult to justify just why i use my bow toon anymore other than the fact she was my first toon.

Clearly things need to be looked at maybe the most important being Healing.

Healing;- It doesnt work against big mobs if your hit for 200+ your dead because your not gonna heal using healing.

Arrow pathing;- It needs alot of work (nuff said)

Missile accuracy;- a few years ago this was changed because the arrow slingers were hiting everything easily. well its changed too far. with max bow max coord major bow major coord I should be forgiven in thinking I should not have to use full accuarcy to hit most things, and that I should be able to hit everything (agreed not all the time but hit none the less). If this is not true, where is my target I CANT GET BETTER.

Dissapearing bug;- there is a bug where characters go invisible near or in housing.

Invisible and failed spells;- at times war spells hit and there has been no war spell seen and at other times someone will cast a spell and nothing will happen (you know what im talking about im just reminding you)

Alleginace chat ban;- If I ban a memeber of my clan from alleginace chat I want them banned from it, I do not want a little pop up box allowing them to chat immediatly. (makie it so they have to log of and on again at least before chatting again)

On a lighter note i do love the game and have played solid (every day) since it came out so its not all bad, (infact I love it) but I have noticed there is a tendency to deal with the whiners first so ill whine a bit and see if it gets me anywhere.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

I have noticed there is a tendency to deal with the whiners first so ill whine a bit and see if it gets me anywhere.

LOL... I've been whining for ages now... but then, I'm not primarily a Mage, so what I complain about is deemed unimportant. Now if I were a mage, whining and carrying on like a 10 year old on a temper tantrum, they listen and say... poor, poor baby... let mommy kiss it all better.... you want more power? No problem! Here it is... now go and play nice, and be sure to boast to all the other classes as you grief them to death.

That's about the size of it... Mages get it ALL, all the time, since day 1, November 2, 1999 to present. There's always been upgrades for mages... but when a melee complains they're told... you're already powerful enough and we have no intention to help you... instead, we might hinder you with a nerf instead.

Anyway.. I'm sick of this thread now, and it's not even patch day yet. All us Melee Types, Archers included are gonna get the proverbial shaft, and mages are gonna get 500% more power, to ensure the rest of us feel like quitting for good.

Nice move, Turbies!

[Vlad Morbius]

All those in favor of having a "long overdue Dev chat" to discuss these issues.

A resounding AYE!!!!:D

[Duel Ice]

Aye

[Gustaive]

I'm no spring chicken ... I've been around a while. Everything is not about politics. In the case of Asheron's Call there is no conspiracy to steal your money to funnel the funds to MEO or DnDOL. If you're unhappy with the game simply voice your concerns and leave them at that ... I for one find it hard to support your very valid points when you talk as if there are Turbine Helicopters hovering in whisper mode above your house.

If you can't enjoy the game or feel your concerns aren't being addressed, then take a break.

BTW ... I'm not flaming you or anythng I'm trying to lighten you up.

[JPH1121]

I like the mage changes but am not too happy with the missle aegis changes...missle chars need this applied to something they can wield....for example, mabye make a set of gaunts that have this ability, one for each missle class...

This item requires a 250 base Crossbow/Bow/Thrown Weapons skill to wield.

Also, with regards to the magic changes, don't give it to monsters, we don't need that lol.

Thirdly, I would MUCH perfer a plethora of GOOD slayer weapons for all classes (assault orb is AMAZING, give something similar to missles and melees, I hear the assault weaps are terrible for non-mages) either that or give us slayer effect imbues for all types of monsters (still a 33% chance), which would be comparable to the assault orb damage increases.

On slayer imbues though, make sure that these weapons are slightly better than other imbues in most cases...

[Thundercutter]

The only reason that I believe that mages are not overpowering is because I was playing one when the ice elementals were attacking Qalabar. I had a full blown battlemage (spec life, war and mana conversion) the only other skill that he had was arcane lore. Granted, he was able to do about 4 times the damage of my pure melee (he has no magic schools whatsoever and does not use buffbots). But the meleer used oak on his weapons and was therefore hitting about three times for each spell that the BM cast. Also, the BM has to vuln the golem first or the meleer flat out did more damage than he did. The fact that imps and vulns stack for missile and melee but not for magic simply adds to the fact that mages have their limitations.

I know that from the sounds of this, the BM had a 33% advantage; however, both characters lost out to characters that either used buff bots; were life/melee or missile hybrids or had a mage/melee fellowship. The end all and be all of it is a pure mage, melee or archer is simply not as good as a hybrid or mixed group. It's always been that way. Considering that all of my characters are between 21st and 52nd level, I guess I can only speak as a low/mid level character.

Finally: the official tally was that Gore won the popular and Bush won the electoral: http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/2000presgeresults.htm. Now, let's get back to the topic of the upcoming changes. Oh yeah, Happy Observed Independence Day. :)

[RTA_FF]

I think it was Julius Caeser who said, "The masses are a**es"

There is "being responsive to the player base" and there is catering to idiots.

First it was housing. This was demanded by players. You implemented it and towns died. The basis for an ongoing player community is being able to connect with people.

High level playgrounds. You implemented them and leveling becamse the be-all end-all of why people play.

Now it's "Kick-a** mages". An unbalanced game detracts from keeping a long-term player base.

What happened to story lines? Epic sagas?

Block and copy dungeons (don't even correct the exit portals) and WHAM, you have have content for the next month.

Turbine, you have lost your vision. No longer do we have heart breaking story lines (Martine), epic sagas (Shadow wars), quests that knock you down but keep you coming back to try again (Aerlinthe).

Why is it be that the boss monsters of the new Lugian armor quest (General Fostok and Amanua) are both mage kills?

Does a mage really need to do more damage? No.
Should melees be limited to Lugians and olthoi? No.

Should everyone have to be a grief template? Bleh.

The basic appeal of AC is in its flexibility. One controls the development of our avatars in a way not seen in other games. What the content, or lack there of, now dictates is that everyone have MagD spec'd and level obsessively.

The damage modifications implemented for July complete the coversion of this game to mage only. Might as well label the expansion "Mage Love" now.

As for diverting resources from game coding to implementation of the billing system, that's an infrastructure concern and you are making AC players pay for something that benefits only Turbine and the future release of it's games. I'm sure you don't plan on delaying monthly patches from MEO or DnDOL. A turnkey operation would have been a better investment.

You are lucky to have such a devoted player base. You shouldn't abuse us so.

p.s. Would you PLEASE correct the typos in the Bobo tattos? the Magic D, Melee D and Missle D tattos are for LOWER arm.

[KITANIGHT]

ok a lot of changes. where r we going with this? just curious. see you in august

[SlashBroker]

I have a mage and a bowman. My 126+ bowman is parked because he is tired of killing monkeys and bugs.
I now play with my just hit 111 mage. He can hunt, monkeys, bugs and vod solo. Or anywhere else for that matter.
Sure his damage might be a little less than my bowman, when he hunts with a mage, but my mage can solo vod and he is 30+ levels lower than my bowman. Has been able to solo vod for a few levels.
But that is okay to I guess. 36 hours and counting and I will turn in a player like Turbine wants a melee/mage. They want everyone to become at least part mage, so everyone has to become part mage. So I got rid of stuff ,that I didn't want to get rid of on my bowman so I can spec life magic. Atleast then I might can actually solo hunt like I want.

[zhar]

Sounds great! Im quite a big fan of mages, so i have no prob with these improvements. mages are pretty strong in pvp already, so im glad you are not changing that.

[Hemorhage]

schooled.

but i like the patch. The ability for a mage to hit for 2500 on a VOD critter just tickles my fancy.

[Gustaive]

Originally posted by RTA_FF

Now it's "Kick-a** mages". An unbalanced game detracts from keeping a long-term player base.

What happened to story lines? Epic sagas?

Block and copy dungeons (don't even correct the exit portals) and WHAM, you have have content for the next month.

Turbine, you have lost your vision. No longer do we have heart breaking story lines (Martine), epic sagas (Shadow wars), quests that knock you down but keep you coming back to try again (Aerlinthe).

Why is it be that the boss monsters of the new Lugian armor quest (General Fostok and Amanua) are both mage kills?

Does a mage really need to do more damage? No.
Should melees be limited to Lugians and olthoi? No.


As for diverting resources from game coding to implementation of the billing system, that's an infrastructure concern and you are making AC players pay for something that benefits only Turbine and the future release of it's games. I'm sure you don't plan on delaying monthly patches from MEO or DnDOL. A turnkey operation would have been a better investment.

You are lucky to have such a devoted player base. You shouldn't abuse us so.

p.s. Would you PLEASE correct the typos in the Bobo tattos? the Magic D, Melee D and Missle D tattos are for LOWER arm.

Hey! I hear what you're saying but let me tell you ... I went to get a Horned helmet the other night with 2 mages, an archer, 2 swordsmen and an axe user. I myself as a swordsman got the kill on Fostok most of the time. I have a gimp template and not much over 126 as I only recently hit 126 after 4 and a half years. It's possible ... melee's best friend in high end PvM is CB. I used my crippling blow and was whooping up on the smackl talking General. As for Amanua ... he's either mage food or Archer food as I missed him half the time.

As for the story ... it'll come. With AC2's storyline in the books ... the end result is already known. Right now we're getting the juicy details to a very tragic and epic story.

[Thundercutter]

It seems that we can't get off of the subject of politics; so, let's put it in perspective to AC. As in the real world, AC is filled with special interest groups: meleers, archers, mages, PvP'ers, solo'ers, old timers, allegiances, bot supporters, bot protesters, etc. Also, as in the real world, each of these special interests groups lobby to make sure that their concerns are addressed, or at the very least, taken into consideration.

No decision that any government (or Dev Team) can make will completely satisfy all of the special interest groups, especially when you consider that some of them are diametrically opposed to other special interest groups. The Dev Team has to sort though all of the forums, emails and personal letters to try and determine which changes will improve AC overall without ticking off one or more special interest group.

Example: It was previously suggested that archers should have the aegis capability imbued in something other than a bow and that its activation/wield-ability should be based on the character's bow skill. I believe that 250 was mentioned. By the way, I realize that bow also includes crossbow. Sounds good but what about those characters that don't have a 250 bow skill. They could either be lower level or so versatile that while the bow may be their main weapon, they are not specialized in it. Likewise, what will keep a really high level character with a ridiculous amount of experience points from attaining the skill level in bow just to wear the aegis.

Add to this, the fact that there are meleers that are opposed to archers or mages having aegis ability, period. Per their nature, the PvP'ers will chime in (this forum had little to no impact on the PvP world and still their concerns were brought up). Look again at the salvage pack; there was a significantly higher number of people that opposed it than supported it; despite the fact that its introduction would have nerfed no one. I'm sure that the outrage that the developers got from that announcement was a complete surprise.

The end all and be all of this is AC is filled with politics and the Dev Team have to be politicians to keep as many people as happy as they can while making AC a game that will be played for years to come.

[Shadow Esper]

im so disapointed now mages do more damage..we do the same damage we get to add aegis to a bow that is worthless in pk + we get a negative effect to it...thanks for messing up bows once again and to top it off the iceing on the cake..you are making mages do more damage...this is just the best patch yet for archer much love for turbine :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:


edit: Oh yeah..and btw before this patch i could take 2 streaks and 1 bolt now im gonna take 1 bolts and 0 streaks before i die because you wanted to make mages EVEN MORE POWERFULL and archer even less.

[Shadow Esper]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by RTA_FF

Now it's "Kick-a** mages". An unbalanced game detracts from keeping a long-term player base.

What happened to story lines? Epic sagas?

Block and copy dungeons (don't even correct the exit portals) and WHAM, you have have content for the next month.

Turbine, you have lost your vision. No longer do we have heart breaking story lines (Martine), epic sagas (Shadow wars), quests that knock you down but keep you coming back to try again (Aerlinthe).

Why is it be that the boss monsters of the new Lugian armor quest (General Fostok and Amanua) are both mage kills?

Does a mage really need to do more damage? No.
Should melees be limited to Lugians and olthoi? No.


As for diverting resources from game coding to implementation of the billing system, that's an infrastructure concern and you are making AC players pay for something that benefits only Turbine and the future release of it's games. I'm sure you don't plan on delaying monthly patches from MEO or DnDOL. A turnkey operation would have been a better investment.

You are lucky to have such a devoted player base. You shouldn't abuse us so.

p.s. Would you PLEASE correct the typos in the Bobo tattos? the Magic D, Melee D and Missle D tattos are for LOWER arm.





omg i totaly agree..if i had a life i would quit this stupid game...they just max out mages every patch add the same cheesy quests with the same outcomes the same dungeons the same bosses.............I WANT SOMETHING NEW I WANT MAGES TO GET NERFED FOR ONCE..in mythical times and books mages are frail and can only wield Robes and leather armor...did you ever hear about merlin with some 10 tink platemail suit????ROFLMAO I THINK NOT! if you gonna keep making mages do more damage make them USE THERE MAGIC TO DEFEND...because right now your mages can wield everything that anyone else can (melee weapons \ bows ) do the same damage as everyone else and still blast with bolts for 200+ damage.

STOP MAXXING OUT MAGES AND WORK ON EVERYONE ELSE AND STORY LINES AND QUESTS!



Edit:

P.s. i am so furiouss i was expecting the aegis bow to be AWsome with power..not just applied to my bow and then give me a negative effect..i am so close to just closeing my 5 accounts and deleting them..im sick of everytime i lvl a char from scratch no chains nothing when i get him high enough lvl to do something you nerf him over and over STOP STOP STOP!

[Heideggar]

Ibn, it's great that you find that so many of the players want this. I honestly would like something new too, and so do my friends.

Almost none of them come to these boards. I usually brief them on the important things going on though, so they get the same info in less time from me. So those extra 20+ people that don't post here know what's going on, and they too have expressed their desire for better billing so long as the errors/bugs/problems are extremely minimal and things are done right the first time.

However, none of them feel that it should be their job to fund this at the expense of their potential monthly content.

Ibn, you even told me that spending a couple months on redoing mansions is possible, but to detract from monthly updates/content would upset other people, and that's partially why you won't do it.

How the hell is that any different than from what you're doing with the billing? Many players want it, but you're taking away potential monthly content to do it.

Same thing with mansions: Many players want it, but you DO NOT want to take away potential monthly content to do it.

Why? because some players might not want their monthly content reduced for mansions. I guess I'm that guy who doesn't want his monthly content reduced for this billing stuff.

Hypocritical statements.

This billing migration should NOT reduce what the players potentially should expect for what they've been paying you guys. Not to mention the price increase which was suppose to pay for the people to do this so we wouldn't have the content reduction.

Now, throw in the content and time spent on less important stuff, and you're gonna get ticked off customers.

It's bad enough that we have our monthly content reduced, but to have what little content we get suck (sorry aegis on bows like you want it is horrible in my eyes), is just icing on the cake.

Why would I ask any of my friends who are trying out CoH, WoW, and half a dozen other games to _ever_ try out AC when things like this go on lol.

You guys should probably stop looking at things as: "reducing the amount of players lost to other games" to "Pulling players from other games".

You expect it to work with the expansion pack? Hey, I hope so, but didn't a bit of the AC team stop working on AC1 live stuff to go do that too!?

ok, so we have these people developing AC1.

1) Some got pulled to work on the X-pack. Possibly reducing the total monthly content normally received.

2) Some got pulled to work on the billing migration. Definetly reducing total monthly content normally received.

3) Content and Revisions are either:
a) Pushed back months on the Development Schedule
b) Taken completely off the Development Schedule with no eta on when it will be put back on.

4) Players got a billing increase to help with #2 and #3, possible #1 as well.


So tell me Ibn, how does Turbine find what they're doing justifiable? Because some players want it? No, not quite. You're saying that even though we both know that the billing system will be used for your other games as well, but I don't see the other games getting a higher monthly fee or their developers being taken away from content/development.

So, Ibn, tell me what's in the works, what's going to change in the short term (1-2 months, not 6-12) that would make someone want to pay you based on the above 4 items?

I'm sick of this short-term/long-term **** that you guys use so loosely, which equates to little being done.

Mansions ( I know, I use this a lot, but it's a good example): Was said things were in the works, you were looking into it. Result: off Dev. Schedule, no eta when it will get back on, no response to anything mansion related. Turbine just swept it under the rug, even though many players wanted to see something change. Hey, Ibn, thanks for allowing me to pay 10 times more to purchase the mansion, and 10 times more for maintenance over a villa. Oh, if I wanted, I could get 5 apartments next to each other, and pay 5 C notes every 3 months for the same usefullness as a mansion. I don't understand how you guys could NOT have noticed this after all your changes (villas with recall abilities, house bindstones, etc.). ugh, the language I'd love to use.... hehe.

Archer Tracking: Almost as bad as magic tracking, and 10 times worse in PvP. You guys _still_ have your thumbs up bumbs as to how to fix this, and it's been what? 12+ months? Who the hell would wait that long for you guys to finally fix something? Now, you have guys pulled away from tasks that would probably help solve this problem, doing billing!

rofl, what good is new billing if there's fewer people around to use it? eh!?

I get bashed for my disappointments in you Turbine, and that's fine. I guess I just don't like settling for less because you guys want to di c k around with our money.

[Thundercutter]

Sticky melee (they really hated that)
Magic Defense (Focus+Self)/7 instead of (Focus+Self)/10
Foci (one backpack space for each school)
The range of Life Magic spells was reduced
The effectiveness of drains and transfers were reduced
The duration of negative spells were reduced
Meleers gained natural defenses
Research was replaced with scrolls which are worthless to sell back
Hollow weapons were introduced

I thought of these in about 5 minutes. I'm sure there are others.

[RTA_FF]

Actually, the one that got me was the increased firing speed of bows.

So I made and leveled a bow toon. :-)

What happened here and will be implemented for July is:

Mages have their own high XP place to hunt (Caul Island), but they are complaining that they aren't doing enough damage. (Excuse me? Is there anything there that I can't kill?)

Give them overwhelmiing power and ...

Everyone will roll a mage. Which is pretty much what everyone did after about 18 months in the game.

If you look at the top 50 on VT (courtesy of Treestats)
40/50 are mages .....

Probably the best evidence that the optimal template for this game is a mage and that the Devs will cater to the mages, to the detriment of the game.

Balance is what makes for replayability. An important concept in a game where there hasn't been much new content in most of the monthly props.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

and they wanna give monsters the ability to hit for an extra 500%??? LOL

Drudge Cabalist freezes you for 175 points with Icy Torment.

Nice! Guess it's time to truly QUIT AC. If one drudge can do that to me before patch, I'm a goner next patch... no two ways about it! If I get lucky and survive, do remember that they travel in packs of 2 Peerless, 2 Cabalists, and 3 or 4 Bloodletters.. most use 7s. If I survive one, the other one(s) will finish me off... not a chance in hell does anyone have.... except... a mage that can heal almost immediately via a click of the mouse, or drain back enough to stay alive.

Upgrade the above to a Quidox or Paradox in VoD... LOL Instant, all-expense paid express trip to the Lifestone! THUD!

Cya, I'm outta this nut house.... I'll wait for WoW or something better, or just go back to single player games.

[Hemorhage]

[QUOTE]If you look at the top 50 on VT (courtesy of Treestats) 40/50 are mages .....[QUOTE]


not every one that plays VT or AC for that matter uses Treestats.

And if you look at it, in all of fanacy, roll playing games, fiction. The mage is the most powerful of the group. A melee can only fight in close quaters, an archer should be able to do the same just at far quaters, but mages are the ones who can do both do the most damage cast the most spells, be the most powerful.

i dont make the changes, i just play them.

[mishop]

I like the idea of stronger monster magic.

I think one of the most exciting parts of the game is corpse recovery.

Some of the best times I've had on AC involved either trying to help someone get a corpse or trying to get my own.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

Some of the best times I've had on AC involved either trying to help someone get a corpse or trying to get my own.

Hehe... interesting you should say that! I've spent a great deal of time on that type of "duty" myself. It's expected once you've outlevelled most others. :)

I found it quite enjoyable to do besides... sorta makes you feel like a super-hero, from all the gratitude and thanks from those who would otherwise have never gotten their stuff back. :cool:

Sure wish this 500% increase in monster against player would be left out, as that's what's going to totally ruin the game for me, and push me out. How do you recover corpses in mobs, when the mobs can hit you for 5 times the HP as before? We don't have a prayer... It's like they want to do away with all except mages, but then even mages will get hit for 1000HP (Instant Death) too. *shrug*

[Hemorhage]

MOBS WILL NOT CRIT FOR 500%. Only Players can do that. and they cant do it to eachother. Only imbuded orbs with CB will have that ability, so before you post again please read the letter again.

[Bensam]

This property will work in exactly the same way as an Aegis shield, ...A description of how the Aegis shield works (or a link) would be nice. I don't ever remember seeing one.

[Sy Black]

This was posted by Ibn

Regarding base crits, let's take a look at Ilservian's Flame, Flame Bolt 7. This spell does 110-180 damage and, pre-event, crits from 165-235. After the July event, crits will be 200-270, a 35 point increase. This is more damage, yes, but not the 500% increase that you could see from a CB-imbued wand in PvM combat. Also, remember that without CS, crits only occur about 5% of the time.


Considering my HP only buffs to 245 that means that each Mob I fight has a 5% chance to kill me with ONE hit. And like someone before said, drudges come in packs(each one with a 5% chance to crit). A melee that has to fight close in, might not even get a shot off.

I personally don't care what mages can or cannot do, what I care about is that Turbine is limiting me to hunting olthoi, tuskers and lugians, which with the loot revision, don't drop anything worth hunting. And since I mostly like to hunt for loot, this kind of change limits my intrest in this game.

This game is starting to resemble a path that AC2 took with group monsters and forcing people to hunt in groups. In case anyone doesnt know how that worked out, take a look at how many people play Leafcull in AC2 --- Doh! almost forgot, they had to close it down because there wasn't enough players.

My only hope is that Ibn and his team, sit down and read this thread very carefully, before implementing the changes that they're planning on.

[Vlad Morbius]

Hey if the upcoming july mage love ticks you off ...wait till you see the proposed mage love content in concept ;)
Booooya all the world loves a mage!!!!

e/sarcasm

[KsBabe]

QUOTE]/ /Improved War Magic Critical Hits
In July, War Magic critical hits in Player-vs.-Monster (PvM) combat will be improved. The three changes listed below will affect only War Magic spells landed in combat on monsters and War Magic spells cast by monsters on players. War Magic critical hits for Player-vs.-Player (PvP) combat will not change.

Currently when a War Magic spell scores a critical hit, it adds a multiple of the base damage of the spell to a normal damage roll. Starting in July, War Magic critical hits will instead add a multiple of the maximum damage of the spell. No more crits that do less damage than non-crits!


Critical Strike for War Magic currently scales from 5% critical hit chance to 25% critical hit chance at maximum effectiveness. In July, the maximum effectiveness will be increased to 50% chance.


Crippling Blow for War Magic currently scales from adding 50% of the spells damage on critical hits to adding 100% at maximum effectiveness. In July, the maximum effectiveness will be increased to adding up to 500% of the spell’s damage.
Again, the three changes listed below will affect only War Magic spells landed in combat on monsters and /War Magic spells cast by monsters on players. War Magic critical hits for Player-vs.-Player (PvP) combat will not change. [/QUOTE]

I read the above description of the war spells and I underlined the part stating that the damage will be from monsters to player, so where do you get it that the monsters wont be hitting for the same? Point it out please!

[zathros]

MONSTERS DO NOT CURRENTLY CRIT WITH WAR SPELLS.

This may change next patch; it may be a bug; they may never again crit. From what I've read, it sounds like the crit rates of monsters will not change, so we're safe from being one-shot 5% of the time.

I predict that if monsters do start critting with war spells, they'll stop critting one patch later. :)

Ibn: Could we PLEASE get confirmation that monsters not critting with war spells won't change, is a bug and might change at some point in the future, or isn't a bug, but will change.

[Ibn]

Originally posted by FmrSentFlatfoot
and they wanna give monsters the ability to hit for an extra 500%??? LOL

Where are you getting this from? No monsters will be gaining the ability to hit for an extra 500%.

[Eph]

wow, 15 pages of reading, now the headache...

Ok, took me awhile to get over to these boards like I promised IBN, but that's because of VT, so we'll blame you guys at Turbine for that. :)

BTW VT is great, Thanks!

I liked the guy that copied his item spells expiring, but really, it is far worse than that, he only had 4 things, minus the shield. Shield is buffed separately too.

Try wearing 8 pieces of armor and cloths under that. 10 pieces expiring at once takes up about all of my message window, when fully opened. I have learned to type "/r item buffs expiring" or in open chat "Item buffs expiring" really fast, then loose most of the conversation, as 80 Lines go flying through the message screen.

Love the item self buff ability, hate the messages when spells expire.


Also, I like the war changes. Will this help out those casting Hecatomb, since they can critical also? I'd like to see it, or should I say my Martyr would.


And since you guys don't know if they exist:
A creature with CB or CS, I think would only be fair.
A creature with CB and CS, well, I think we'll find out now won't we, lol. ;)

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

Either way, Ibn... the proposed changes obviously have everyone up in arms. Whatever the percentage increase will be, it's considerably more than it was, and people stand the chance to be killed in ONE shot, which detracts from making the game fun. Who wants to spend their night off from work or whatever, running to recover their corpse 10 times, when maybe they only had to a couple times before, or none at all?

It's okay for you on the test servers, all decked out with 400 all attribs and 600 all skills (been there, done that).... nothing can harm you. But on the retail servers, so many will die so many times, I really can't see how they're gonna want to keep paying for it. That's not FUN, that's oppression/repression. An unnecessary amount of force when we already have overkill as it is.

Even now, at the current power levels... a pack of drudges, like the one that hit me for 175, right before that I was drained for 90. My total HP is 300 on my UA... that left me 35. One more before (or during) trying to heal, and I woulda been toast. With the new changes.. ONE will do me in. Um.. no thanks.. I'll go find another game I guess... as I'm sure a bunch of others will after they get one-shotted a few times, realizing they don't stand a chance. :(

Ever heard the phrase "Have a heart, will ya?" I think that's the general message the majority of people in this thread are trying to get across, yet you never seem to listen. :mad:

[Eph]

I'm all for the changes just so you know.

I hate dying to Melee, I would rather just die in one big shot anyways.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

I would rather just die in one big shot anyways.

If they don't concede to what the majority wants (and they rarely ever do), you'll get your wish... again, and again, and again. Oh how much fun you'll be having, spending all your time recovering your corpse. What joy! lol

Odd thing though, is your signature:

I miss the AC of Old

It's a contradiction when saying you're all for the changes. AC of Old didn't have things like this to consider. *shrug*

[Artillius]

Before making any changes to the game why not take a poll? This "Tell us what you think of the July Letter to the Players!" isnt working. You should be asking "Tells us what you think of some of our ideas on the following updates/changes.".

First ask your customers what they would like or dislike before making changes. Like the war changes, or the aegis bow change. Some people will be happy others wont. But at least you can get a better feel for what your cusotmers want.

Why add/or change something in the game one month and then have to change it the next cause its to unbalanced or just not the right thing yet?

Seems like you guys shoot yourself in the foot to many times. You've changed the weeping weapons 3-4 times in the last 6 months. Why not ask the opinoin of your customers first before wasteing valuable programing time, only to have to change something again.

Fixing Lin to me is wasted time when there are other issues that need fixing. Im not going into all these now. Those of you devs who read the boards know the problems. Fix these current issues and you will see you customer base pick up. Lots of people have left AC to other games cause there are so many issuses with this one.

Theres to many replies on this thread for you people to get a good feeling on what we really think. I think a poll would be alot easier, a few clicks and you guys would know what the majority wants or doesnt.

Have a pop-up come up when you click to enter the game server (you know when you click on Frostfell and the screen comes up with the "PLAY" button on it) that has a link to the poll page so you get more response from a larger portion of you customer base, not just us board warriors. You could even use peoples login as they switch to this board. Since we have to log into The Zone first. When we click on the poll link it already knows who we are and we can only vote once. Then also have a thread on this board for any comments that people would like to make.

*shrugs*

[Hemorhage]

Why not ask the opinoin of your customers first before wasteing valuable programing time, only to have to change something again.

um because the opinion of everyone on this game is so varied. there would be some concluse evidence what people what, but for the most part evey poll would have so little leaniancy for one specific idea/concept.

just look at this thread. EVERY 5 or 6 posts there is some one who posts about how they hate/like/love the new CB/CS changes. but no one wants it because they thing a monster is going to crit for 500%. But what none of them realize is that none (or an extremely small %) even have the ablility to cast CB/CS.

But i would have to agree, IF there were only a couple choices like yes/no/unsure to the pop up you speak of would be in my opinion a good idea. 10 points.

[Artillius]

Originally posted by Hemorhage
um because the opinion of everyone on this game is so varied. there would be some concluse evidence what people what, but for the most part evey poll would have so little leaniancy for one specific idea/concept.



Thats my point. There so many more people who play this game that dont even know this board exists let alone post. If they had a poll maybe some of those people who would like to see something change would actually put in their 2 pyreals.

"Keep it simple stupid"

Dont know who made up that quote, but a poll is alot easier to read then 15 pages of posts. They would get the general idea of what people like, dislike, or dont care about. If they wanted more detail as to exactually what we the players wanted they could refer to these boards as they do now.

They did it with UCMing, why not with every other change in the game? I bet they got a good response from that poll.

[Eph]

As for the poll Idea, there would need to be an ingame poll that everyone who entered would have to take. Many of the players still do not come to these boards, and the people that speak out here are the very vocal ones.

The Critical issue. Mages criticals have needed to be fixed for some time. Yes mages do more damage over time, but a Melee rocks a mage, on things it can kill in like 3-4 shots. Take for instance.

I the mage and a UA are hunting next to one another. I press the cast button at the same time as he hits the attack button. He will get 3-5 hits in before I land my spell. He gets the kill I don't Mages are suppose to be more power full against the largest and biggest single creatures, and Melee should dominate packs of medium to big creatures.


Will these new Criticals help my Martyr and his Hecatomb spells?

[Frieze]

Originally posted by Myk
Please don't bother with the aegis for archers. its a huge waste of time unless it can be add to weepings. The LttP says that it's not a PvP fix.

I'm looking forward to using an Aegis bow in the Caul Volcano and perhaps vs. VoD Virindi.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

Well that's really weird, I often use my Level 166 UA toon, and I guess seeing as I also have a lvl 209 Archer, 110 OG BM, I have a fairly good cross-reference of which of the three fares the best in different situations.

I'll tell you now, the scenario you describe about the Mage vs the UA is really way off the mark, because the UA doesn't get to hit 5 times... maybe 2-3 times before the mage does. If it's a competition between the two, it means the critter they're fighting is not vulned, which then means the UA will hit for maybe 20-40HP per strike, and the critter has around 1000HP or more. Most likely 5,000+HP in VoD or Caul. The Mage, with fire render wand will scorch the critter for 200-400+ easily, and will do this consistently until it is dead, while the UA continues to hit at a rate of maybe 60-120HP per Mage strike. You say the Melee gets the kill? I say you don't hunt the scenario you give us, because the end result in every case is, the Mage gets the kill. Any decent meleer knows this, as do the mages who take the kills from the meleers who are competing against them. Happens to me everytime I attempt to outdo a mage, hands down. No contest.

So what are my options? I see a mage and say, "Hey bud, want a partner?" The Mage either says "Sure, cool", or "Nah, I'm fine solo". Those are my options. Or I can just run along on my own solo mission of death, take on my own Quidox or Paradox and die within seconds of engagement, because I can't click my mouse button or hit a quick-key to heal myself and/or drain the critter's health to keep me going... not to mention having been totally debuffed and vulned first, so that it's war spells hit me for 200+ at a time.

You're all for this change, huh? Well.... I tell you now, it's going to cause a serious backlash of player discontent out there on the playing field. I've spoken to so many people In-Game and let them know what's coming, and the meleers basically think Turbine has gone mad to even consider such a change, and that implementing it would undoubtedly PUSH people away from this (once fine and fun) game.

But hey, seeing as people continue to leave out of disgust and boredom, maybe this is Turbine's message to push more people away, so they can soon announce the game no longer has the numbers to support the costs to run it. Maybe paying +Envoys has become a bigger issue now, and they can't justify the expense over a game where so many have left and will still leave. I could be wrong... but they have an option, and with a little legal savvy from a smart lawyer, could again have themselves an army of already trained and qualified +Envoys, for FREE. I'm told again and again this can't be done, but my answer is: Is this not the U.S.A.? ANYTHING can be done here... we do it everyday in so many walks of life. It boils down to "If there's a will, there's a way". Very simple.

Yes I'm ranting here.... but seriously, this problem may go beyond having free +Envoys, maybe it's just time to kill the current AC, and let the upgrade be released as the all new, all improved AC, where Turbine can start over from the start. Personally, I think that's why they're making such absurd and ridiculous changes, to convince people to leave. If you keep making changes that anger and annoy the majority, eventually the product becomes undesireable.

But know this, IF that truly is their intent... the good, honest, dedicated players who have spent as much as 5+ years building their toons, will not trust Turbine again, and won't be back for the all new update/AC. Of course I can't guarantee this, but I think those who truly believed in Turbine, will be let down so much if they pulled the plug (which these kinds of changes are doing).

You can only push people around and make them feel unwelcome for so long, before they jump ship. Turbine is providing the plank for them with these changes.... not just July changes.... ALL of them that make playing harder and more repressive.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

Hemorhage writes:

But what none of them realize is that none (or an extremely small %) even have the ablility to cast CB/CS.

EPH writes: (The guy Ibn asked to come over here and get involved)

And since you guys don't know if they exist:
A creature with CB or CS, I think would only be fair.
A creature with CB and CS, well, I think we'll find out now won't we, lol.

This kind of makes you wonder about a person who was asked to come and get involved in this dicsussion, who mock-laughs at us via saying "I think we'll find out now won't we" in reference to critters having CB/CS abilities.

I guess some people know that critters WILL be able to hit back with the same power the mages will.

So there's your proof... mages are getting more powerful as well as the critters are getting more powerful, and the REST of us who aren't mages, are getting the proverbial SHAFT.... Once again, as per usual.

FUN GAME, huh folks?

[Ibn]

There are currently no creatures that cast spells with CS or CB.

As I wrote earlier in the thread, the average increase in a Level 7 war crit from a creature -- which occurs only 5% of the time at most -- is 35 points. The average increase of a creature's level 7 spell crit is the same as the average increase of a player's non-CB level 7 spell crit -- 17.5%.

I think a LOT of people are confusing the maximum CB increase with the increase in war crits in general.

Regarding the question on whether or not this impacts the Martyr spells -- I've asked engineering to doublecheck this and I'll let you know as soon as I find out.

[Vlad Morbius]

I don't really think they plan on killing the game off because i doubt they would have repurchased it in the first place. I do however agree that this constant upgrading to mage abilities is becoming downright ludicrous! I think if they have long term plans of bringing some parity back to the various classes they need to come right out and say it, even without setting out the specifics.
I am among the many high level long time melee players who are sick to death of these ridiculous bias content changes. There are no viable reasons for increasing their power or tweeking their abilities while completely ignoring some of the more unplayable classes.
This game is begining to take on shades of Animal Farm "All pigs are created equal, but some are more equal then others"
Turbine needs to take a step back and take another look at these changes as well as future plans(in concept) for further widening the gap between classes. This game's premise was that each type of character was to have distinguishing advantages and also be able to excel in various types of combat situations. This is now completely false and it becomes painfully obvious when you look at the numbers of each type of character on the new world VT. Another glaring example is the total lack of new non-magic creatures or hunt areas, or bosses for that matter.

I implore you, take another look at how badly you are limiting the future of what was once a very versatile game.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

But still, Ibn, why do they have to hit harder? Isn't a crit of 235HP enough? Like I said, the 175 + the 90 drain just prior almost wiped me out, and I had only killed one drudge at that point, with one more Peerless, both Cabalist's and 2 Bloodletters eyeing me. If I hadn't stopped to heal when I did.. game over.

Adding the extra 35HP, would've killed me. I like having SOME chance... I hate having NO chance. A Mage, OTOH, would get drained for 90, and drain it back... he'd be at near full health again to sustain the 175+. Give meleers a chance to click their mouse and drain a critter or use a life self-heal while in combat stance with their weapon/shield in-hand, and THEN it would be fair for all. Until then, it's totally unfair for ALL Meleers.

For those that don't have Life Magic... welp, sorry.. that's their decision. I like having 3 schools on my toons. I hate to rely on buffbots.

[Ibn]

Regarding Life projectile spells -- they will see no change.

[Gouru]

Of course not. We all know how overpowering and unbalanced those life projectiles are.

[Sy Black]

Originally posted by Ibn
There are currently no creatures that cast spells with CS or CB.

As I wrote earlier in the thread, the average increase in a Level 7 war crit from a creature -- which occurs only 5% of the time at most -- is 35 points. The average increase of a creature's level 7 spell crit is the same as the average increase of a player's non-CB level 7 spell crit -- 17.5%.


I think you're missunderstanding what WE're saying. The war spells already hit melees for to much damage specially someone who chooses to play a soldier and not a half mage. Almost every high level moster can cast level 7 wars, if i CHOOSE to play a char. without life, there is almost no place for me to hunt, because all i can do is wear level 6 protects. So what you're doing is adding another 5% chance that a mob can kill me in one hit.

What you han't done is explain the reason for this descision. As there is 16 pages of reasons why this change is a bad idea.

[Liaya]

Originally posted by Ibn
Regarding Life projectile spells -- they will see no change.


I guess my martyr mage is gonna have to start looking at the skill change quests....

:( :( :( :( :( :( :(

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

This entire thread is RIFE with discontented, unhappy people who keep voicing their concerns and dislikes about the upcoming changes to war magic, and right in the middle of even more of the same, we get this:

Regarding Life projectile spells -- they will see no change.

So it's evident that you see what people are saying, you know how unhappy they all are, but you just could care less, and the change will apply, like it or not.

[Eph]

Originally posted by FmrSentFlatfoot
Hemorhage writes:

But what none of them realize is that none (or an extremely small %) even have the ablility to cast CB/CS.

EPH writes: (The guy Ibn asked to come over here and get involved)

And since you guys don't know if they exist:
A creature with CB or CS, I think would only be fair.
A creature with CB and CS, well, I think we'll find out now won't we, lol.

This kind of makes you wonder about a person who was asked to come and get involved in this dicsussion, who mock-laughs at us via saying "I think we'll find out now won't we" in reference to critters having CB/CS abilities.

First off, VoD and Caul creatures are high end creatures, and should not be a place melee solo well, IMO.

Two, I play this game for fun, and I enjoy or try to enjoy every addition to it. I may in one patch, or even in long stetches of patches, not see any "luv" while others do. I know that sooner or later the Dev's will try to give each player type some kind of "luv"

The Dev's work hard to provide us with service and constant updates that many complain about. I rarely see people coming to these boards and thanking them. They can't make everyone happy, but they try to make most happy. I try to thank them on anything I enjoy.

They even admit and change things when they feel things are wrong. (Armor Debuffing a few months ago)

This game is easy when it comes fighting most creatures, an occasional CB or CS creature here or there as a boss creature wouldn't be such a bad thing. I think some bosses should actually be feared. Look at Lady A, she gets gang banged on a daily basis.

As for my joke about we'll find out; sometimes mistakes are made and things are over looked. Yes you can get mad at them and drag on and on about how you hate it and you are going to quit, but just laugh and don't stress it. You'll live longer and happier.

Lastly, as for IBN asking me to post here; he did not say to come post on this topic directly. I had PM'ed him about something about a month ago, and he answered my question, then suggested I try coming over to these boards to reply to the LTTP, Concepts, and other Threads.

I believe it was an attempt to get more responses on this board.

My thoughts on an idea or issue, along with my statements, are my own, and are not that of IBN's or anyone else's for that matter. I am not a Turbine employee, nor should Turbine or any of it's employees be judged by anything I say.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

Originally posted by Eph

First off, VoD and Caul creatures are high end creatures, and should not be a place melee solo well, IMO.

Two, I play this game for fun, and I enjoy or try to enjoy every addition to it. I may in one patch, or even in long stetches of patches, not see any "luv" while others do. I know that sooner or later the Dev's will try to give each player type some kind of "luv"

The Dev's work hard to provide us with service and constant updates that many complain about. I rarely see people coming to these boards and thanking them. They can't make everyone happy, but they try to make most happy. I try to thank them on anything I enjoy.

They even admit and change things when they feel things are wrong. (Armor Debuffing a few months ago)

This game is easy when it comes fighting most creatures, an occasional CB or CS creature here or there as a boss creature wouldn't be such a bad thing. I think some bosses should actually be feared. Look at Lady A, she gets gang banged on a daily basis.

As for my joke about we'll find out; sometimes mistakes are made and things are over looked. Yes you can get mad at them and drag on and on about how you hate it and you are going to quit, but just laugh and don't stress it. You'll live longer and happier.

Lastly, as for IBN asking me to post here; he did not say to come post on this topic directly. I had PM'ed him about something about a month ago, and he answered my question, then suggested I try coming over to these boards to reply to the LTTP, Concepts, and other Threads.

I believe it was an attempt to get more responses on this board.

My thoughts on an idea or issue, along with my statements, are my own, and are not that of IBN's or anyone else's for that matter. I am not a Turbine employee, nor should Turbine or any of it's employees be judged by anything I say.

You must mean then, that Mages should be the only ones that should hunt VoD. I ask, Why? There are a great many very high level Melee Players here, who are quite capable of surviving in VoD or Caul "IF" Turbine would allow them similar tools that mages are given. Not asking for a lot here, just the ability to self heal on the go while holding their respective weapon(s), much like a mages wand, which they hold onto. By saying these hunting grounds are high end, and being that they are, is exactly where high level players of all types NEED to play, to make it worthwhile. By how you come across, only Mages should be allowed to suck in mass XP. This game is about XP in case you were unaware. The AC of Old has been gone for 3+ years now... it's not so much about fun as it is about the eliteness of that all impressive level number and the skills to go with it. Frankly I look at that and say "Vanity of vanities", but I still have two high level characters and in order for me to feel like I'm getting anywhere, I too need mass XP... otherwise what's the point... I may as well go kill boring tuskers or bugs. No thanks.

You don't seem to get it... we're not asking for luv, we're asking for consideration. There's quite a large difference between the two. What we're getting is brush-off ignorance instead.... as if to say, pay your monthly fee and shut up. I'll tell ya something, that type of treatment doesn't last long. Like I said before, the ones who will play till the cows come home, oblivious to what's going on in these forums, are the kids whose parents are covering the fees with their credit cards... but the others who have to work for their own money and pay for this, and who eventually find out that their concerns are being ignored, will not stand for it. It's like an election. Keep your promises, you'll be loved... don't keep them, or change them to something opposite or what we dislike, buh-bye next term.

I play this game for fun too... I'm perm disabled, I've played this game 12+ hours/day because there's not much else for me to do sitting in a chair my whole life... but fun peters out eventually when the game-maker starts to alter it so that it no longer is fun, but makes it into WORK. I don't want to work at having fun, I just want to have fun... like I did in the AC of Old, remember? Back when AC was fun? Back when people with potty mouths were taken care of lickety-split, and every form of other CoC violation was looked after QUICKLY so as to make an appropriate environment for the "decent" people to have fun in? Remember? I do. I was there... I had fun, and I also took great pride in being one of the one's who helped to ensure the environment was kept clean for the "decent" folk, who often threatened to quit the game because they didn't want their kids to see all the trash talk. But then, they got rid of all the peacekeepers, and allowed the whole environment to go to hell on a grease slide, from where it never recovered and has only gotten progressively worse. It was soon after this that the game was no longer truly fun, but a cesspool of filth-mouth syndrome, and it was allowed to prevail... so the game became XP based only. Various programs came along to help people macro while watching TV... and I'm not going to name them all.. just look at history and it's all there, glaring at you.

So no, this game really isn't fun anymore.. it's more like a JOB now. Because I've been here so long and am past level 200, people are always looking for me to do things as a provider... and I do, no problem.. what else is there for me to do? It's the people who have been allowed through a myriad of plugins and just their general demeanor that have made this game no longer fun.
Anyway, I could go on.. there's so many examples... but I shall digress, and let you remember them all, if you can, like you should be able to if you've been here since the AC of Old.

Lady A is a joke, and it's the fault of the Devs who continue to make mages more powerful, and melee weapons to hit for more damage, without upping the capabilities of Lady A. If you're looking for fault, the fault rests on those who make the changes. The players are only users of them, they have no extra-special power unto themselves.

You say this game is easy... and you're right. The Devs made it easy by giving us all Render weapons, and not upgrading the monsters to resist... but then, the renders were made because people complained it took too long to kill anything.. and then they complained that monsters didn't give enough XP... so everything the players were unhappy about, the Devs gave them so they could amass immense XP. See? It's all about XP, and has been for years... it's no longer about FUN. Sure, there are a few groups who TRY hard to still make out as having fun, but when you're in these groups... the primary topic of interest is... "How much will we make per hour?" So there you have it... let's have fun... but in order to have fun, we MUST have mass XP. I rest my case.

Sure the Devs work hard... but their paycheques are their reward for the work that they do, and I bet you dollars to donuts it's not a small paycheque. When I worked, not many people ever thanked me for what I did, and what I did required a heck of a lot more giving of myself than they'll ever experience in their entire lives. But I'll tell ya, when I did something wrong, I sure heard about it.. boy did I ever! The same holds true here, as it does in all walks of life. You do good... great.. you earned your keep and the money you made... you do bad, you never hear the end of it. Why should we treat the Devs any different here, for what they do? They do what they do.. and are paid for it. Same applies across the board. The Devs are not super-heroes, they bleed like we all do.. all their bodily functions are the same as everyone else', and like everyone else, they're not perfect and should therefore not be held up to higher standards. Contrary to what a great many people think, we're all equals on this spaceship called Earth, no partiality when it comes down to what we all need to survive. So many people don't get what they need because the rich ignore them, and put them out of mind... but that's another topic again. We're all the same here.

You say they even admit and change things when they feel things are wrong. Well, the problem is.. it's only when they feel there's a problem that things get changed.... what the people want, often gets swept under the rug and ONLY get addressed after the Devs realize they goofed up by implementing what the people said NO to before it was implemented! Therefore, all those hours of work to make the change and then undo it, has gone to waste, where instead they could've done something positive that people have been asking for, for ages... whatever that change is. That's why things never get done, because they always end up doing double work for a zero end result.

I've said enough I think. You should have a better grasp of my concerns, even though most or all will be ignored... but then, what else is new. Nice to see Ibn comes looking for others to get involved in these debates, I wish he'd do it more often.. but not just "select" people, but EVERYONE.... then maybe we'd get a better insight to what the WHOLE wants for this game, not just a small handful of us that frequent these boards.

I realize that would mean a ton more work for Ibn, and maybe they'd need to hire another or three mouthpieces to take care of it. Wouldn't it be worth it, so everyone's wishes and concerns were covered? *shrug*

I use the term "Mouthpiece" (a go-between) because the only person that people see, is Ibn, and they have this idea that he controls the whole show and is in charge of all the changes. If they only knew... but, I'm over my head again, so we'll let it end here.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

lol.. that's the first time I've exceeded 10,000 characters.

Anyway, I tried to add an EDIT: so here it is...

EDIT: getting back to Lady A. She should be like a VoD Boss, takes an army to kill her, and while she's being worked on other spawns of undead continue to arise to help her. Then Aerlinthe Quest would be FUN again. Let's go back to the AC of Old, and make the once tough quests, tough again.

[MrsKenny]

Oh goody. More mage love. :( Guess its time to park my melee and play my mage more. My lil 98 mage can already outkill my 142 melee and pretty much all of the monsters. Kinda find that sad. I love playing my melee but she can only take so many 190+ hits at a time in vod from the magical stuff not to mention caul.

Is there any plan to give anything other than sword, bow and mage love? lol

[Lokania]

I am still amazed by the upcoming war magic changes along with the increase in the CS damage for wands/orbs. I can't believe anyone believes mages need more power.

Look at this quick count from Treestats:

Breakdown of top 100 toons on MT:
Mage=42
Sword=22
Archer=20
Xbow=5
UA=4
Axe=2
Spear=1
Macer=1
Other=3

There are already twice as many mages than any other class. I guess that is because they are so "underpowered" and in need of "love". This class is chosen 2 to 1. Why? The answer is obvious. Ibn, Devs, anyone who is listening.... Numbers tell the tale. The other classes need attention much more than mage. And, combined, these other classes still make up the majority.

[Vlad Morbius]

Well peeps(Devs) I'd like to see you put your tap shoes on and try to dance around the facts in that post ;) So how about some answers or are we all expected to wait until the ACPL ?

[Forsaken one]

LoL Lokania Treestats is uber NOT. :rolleyes:
Not as may people use it as you my think.

As for mages being over powered. As long as war cost the most it should be on top. Right now on the higher end of the game it is far from it.

As for a level 90 something mage killing something faster then a 126+ melee. Learn how to play the game get the right weps and quest items. My archer walks all over mages on the high end game. Healing like a mage?? Just an idea tries Salted Meat or other foods.

I'm sick of all the crying. :mad:
Try thinking for a min it’s far that archer's can hit for 2,500 -3,500 per hit after spending 16 creeds. Mages hit same monster for 200-900 after spending 28 creeds. I don’t want to hear about you need this you need that skill. Talking about dot.

[Sy Black]

Originally posted by Forsaken one
LoL Lokania Treestats is uber NOT. :rolleyes:
Not as may people use it as you my think.

As for mages being over powered. As long as war cost the most it should be on top. Right now on the higher end of the game it is far from it.

As for a level 90 something mage killing something faster then a 126+ melee. Learn how to play the game get the right weps and quest items. My archer walks all over mages on the high end game. Healing like a mage?? Just an idea tries Salted Meat or other foods.

I'm sick of all the crying. :mad:
Try thinking for a min it’s far that archer's can hit for 2,500 -3,500 per hit after spending 16 creeds. Mages hit same monster for 200-900 after spending 28 creeds. I don’t want to hear about you need this you need that skill. Talking about dot.


There is probably an equal amount of mages that dont use treestats as melees. So its a fairily acurate indicator.

If you're fighting 2 high end mobs by the time you get out of combat put something in your mouth and reload your bow, you'll be swallowing it at the LS.

The only way an archer can hit for so much is if the monster was vulned, probably by a mage with a high life skill.

[Lokania]

"Try thinking for a min it’s far that archer's can hit for 2,500 -3,500 per hit after spending 16 creeds. Mages hit same monster for 200-900 after spending 28 creeds. I don’t want to hear about you need this you need that skill. Talking about dot."


WOW! You have an archer that can hit a non-vulned, non-imperiled creature for 2500-3000? ?? I didn't think so. You or anyone else.

I am not whining or crying about anything. I am saying enough already. The prima donna's have received more than their fair share of attention. The dev's need to spread it around.

The 28 credit argument is getting a little thin. As was already pointed out in another thread. Creating a mage and spec'ing War magic may cost 28 creadits; however, creating a melee and spec'ing sword costs 16 plus training Melee defense is another 10 which equals 26 (Magic Defense is freely trained). So quit your own crying about that extra 2 credits you spent.

I have a mage. I know the difference between the two. Each class should have it's advantages and disadvantages which *should* even things out. The old saying "The rich get richer and poor get poorer" is very true here. I don't want anything taken away from mages, I just say enough already.


Edit: Yes, was going to mention that, Sy. I know everyone doesn't use treestats, but I think it would be fairly representational of the player base.

[Vlad Morbius]

Good for you Lokania :) I'd love to meet this uber archer as well, he must play on that server in his mind lol! Face the facts and stop dogdging the issues the game is out of balance and it needs to be fixed not pushed further outta whack!!! Any mage who says they aren't overpowered is either delusional or lying through his(her)teeth!
I know I've played for 4 plus years and i have both types of characters.

[Forsaken one]

DOT=Damage over time

I understand your point of if its not debuffed. keep in mind I'm talking pure damage. NOt about any other skill war cost more so it should out damage.

Thank back when dagger was top dog was it far. NO


Talking about DOT for the SKILL not over all skill.

This is not about if a mage is more uber then a melee its about how much damage war/archer/melee can do for the cost of that SKILL

[Lokania]

Yes, I figured out the "dot" after I posted. Had a slight brain cramp there. :-)

So, you are saying, straight offensive skill damage over time, the war magic needs more tweaking? If we took a sword character, base 400 skill and pitted her against a mage with base 400 war magic skill. With no vuln's or imps on the critter, no buffs on the sword, (remember we are only talking offensive skill here, eliminate all other such as item magic, melee defense, etc) my sword would do more DoT than war magic? Or, since it costs twice as much it should do twice as much damage. It is my belief war magic already does twice as much and does not need MORE. I am not preaching to take any thing away that mages already have. I just say it is ludicrous to hear it argued that the DoT favors melee considering the cost of skills.

I have fought my mage, she is only level 73, often enough to see the numbers regarding damage. I am not talking about something I know nothing about. I see it daily. Her base War Magic is only about 306. Using a rendered weapon with no imp or vuln, she does more damage over time than my sword who has a base skill of 408. And, I have good weapons, great weapons so that is not the issue. The issue is what is in the future for fixing an unbalance that I do not, nor ever will, believe exists.

I know this is an age old discussion and will never be settled as long as Dereth exists.

[evolutionoccurs]

prismatic peas .
Master Foci pack (quest related?)
Master Salvage pack. ?


anytime soon ?

btw; *** War changes are Awesome dude! ***
Cant wait to see the rest of the patch ig. :D




ps. btw my mage has 10 open slots to loot/salvage with, lol.






8 more packs maybe ? :D

edit; yeah i need salvage psychology 1on1 first edition. plz zip it and send me a copy :)


edit II, omg, the above poster my never hunt vod/caul. A life sword toon can vuln imperil and soloing do 2X the damage a solo mage can easilyyyyyyyyy. that's what i hope there fixing. IF you dont have life spec'd than dont fret that your character is gimped and cannot hunt solo. But alot of people like/enjoy hunting solo and a good majority are life spec'd so they can vuln/imperil their targets and why should a person who spends 28 credits not be able to do equal damage as one who has only spent 16 ??????

Heh I know 'Many' Life archers who tank stuff 3X the speed my mage does. Tis pitiful.

G/J Turbine, some well earned / needed mage war luv. thx

I wub you :)

[Vlad Morbius]

I don't know about the rest of the people out there but i'm sick to death of the cost issues. Once you've reached 126 none of that matters anymore and take a look around, most are there!!
It is not a matter of the cost at all at that point it's what each character type can do with the skill they have . Lokania is bang on about the discrepency my mage can
hit harder at 100 points lower in skill level then my melee can and regardless of how you try to justify it, that is just not right considering the melee is twice his level.
Mages have no case here,so BS all you like the proof is in the numbers and the numbers don't lie. I defy any Dev to try and argue this point because they can't! If any of them care to volunteer we'll try a little experiment. We can put the same gear on have the same skill level, max tinked weapons and wands and go out to hunt!! Heck pick the targets if you want and i'll prove this once and for all!!

[Lokania]

"edit II, omg, the above poster my never hunt vod/caul. A life sword toon can vuln imperil and soloing do 2X the damage a solo mage can easilyyyyyyyyy. that's what i hope there fixing. IF you dont have life spec'd than dont fret that your character is gimped and cannot hunt solo. But alot of people like/enjoy hunting solo and a good majority are life spec'd so they can vuln/imperil their targets and why should a person who spends 28 credits not be able to do equal damage as one who has only spent 16 ??????

Heh I know 'Many' Life archers who tank stuff 3X the speed my mage does. Tis pitiful."

You have completely missed the point.

I AM a life sword and yes I could imp/vuln, if I had Life magic up to the level necessary. But then you are now talking not 16 credits for Training and Spec'ing Sword but add another 12 for training Life which now puts me right up there with the 38 credits some folks here are whining about.

I am talking straight offensive skills. Sword vs War. UA vs War.

I am not crying and whining about the damage I do with my sword. I am complaining about unnecessary tweaking that is "In concept" for War Magic in the future. I am complaining about the whining of "gimme gimme gimme" from some folks (who shall remain nameless) I can not see the logic in it.

You hate the fact an archer/sword/ua can hit something for 1000 pts after you imp and vuln it for them? Then quit complaining and just don't do it!

This debate can go on forever.

I am done.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

Nice to see some activity around here... although a little too late I'm afraid. You people should jump in when the thread starts, then maybe they'd have time to change things or stop the crazy imbalance before it starts, again.

Obviously Evolutionoccurs hasn't got a clue about much, and is just another blind mage thinking only of himself, and his "other" wants.. gimme gimme gimme... who cares about anyone else attitude. Blah.

In terms of War Magic costing more? No it doesn't. As a single skill, yes it does, but for a melee to match what he loses by not having War, they need (for sake of argument) Sword and Melee spec, 36 credits. Healing to take place of life magic heals, 6 more credits. In the case of Archer, 36 again for Bow/Melee spec, another 4 for Fletching, and then Healing another 6, for a grand total of 46. A mage may have War/Life/Creature spec, but then a meleer who needs to self buff also needs his weapon(s), melee, healing (fletch if bow), and then the 3 magic schools plus mana conversion. It's all relative, and therefore the power distribution should be equal, since we all get an equal amount of skill credits.

A Mage having all magics (except item) spec, can outdo any other class by level 70-80. I often see mid 70s mages solo in VoD. Show me any meleer that can solo VoD at 75 even if they have life spec, which is impossible just from not having enough skill credits to cover their other NEEDED skills, plus life spec.

It's just so unbalanced, it's sickening... and Turbine continue to turn a blind eye. They just don't care.

So.. why should we.

Everyone, cancel your account for a couple months... see how that goes over at Turbine. Maybe they'll listen then?

[Forsaken one]

So Lokania your level 73 mage can take on end game monsters?? At 73 I think not.
You can not have 400 base war. Over and over you point out, that you have no understanding of a mage. Just an Idea Lokania go and read that what changes are being done. I'm not to sure that you understand what is changing. War its self is not getting more power the code is getting fixed.

Vlad Morbius you sir are wrong it matters 100%. The more you spend the more damage you do or dagger would still be on top. That is the point. “Mages have no case here,so BS all you like the proof is in the numbers and the numbers don't lie.” Vlad Morbius
Mages are more versatile. Yes I will agree 100%. But As for damage on 5K health monsters mages will not out kill an archer. Mind you ARCHER I only talk of what I know. I have 2 170+ toons. One is a archer 182 other is a mage 171. My sword is only 102.
Back to my post ARCHER will out DOT a mage on the end game monsters.

I bet if you had a toon that would crit for less then a normal hit you want a change all so. It is proven that is why it is getting changed.

[Vlad Morbius]

No where does she say she can take on end-game monsters. Yes i'm sure the 400 was just a heat of the moment overstatement as she well knows the limits. Now as far as you out killing with an archer i am not sure but i darn well know what im talking about as far as melee because I have 417 base ua skill. There is no way i can outkill a mage without the monster being imped by a mage.
Now as far as code being changed , maybe you should go read because here is the posted concept changes "Along with the critical hit improvements that we’re adding in July, we are looking at increasing War Magic damage on Bolts, Arcs, and Streaks at spell levels 1 through 6. The goal is to improve War Magic damage over time at lower levels, where it currently lags behind other combat skills in comparison to its skill credit cost. Level 7 Streaks may also have their damage increased, although this is ..........
BS.BS.BS. Where is dagger, axe, throwing weapons, mace now!!
etc....
Unbalanced and biased! What I and many other players want is for Work to be done on improving the long standing issues with other classes, many of which are archer related which you should be aware of.

Nuff Said!
ps. my challenge to the Dev's still stands and I'd love to have the public around to see the results so these lies will finally end.