Don't you realize Turbine supports exploits!

[SpeedFreak]

Yes they purposely allow for jump exploits like jump chug, jump spin and such they say they don't but actually they do. I fail to see how if they didn't actually support exploiting that they could be stupid enough not be able to fix the problem in like what about three years of people complaining about it.., or maybe I'm actually wrong.., after speaking with several of then Envoys they do give the impression of stupidity and slow in comprehension.

[Mistikal]

That's pretty bold considering Ibn has commented on it many times.

What you fail to understand or comprehend is...

Fixing one exploit is not as easy as a line of code.

They could just take jump out all together and make it so if you're involved in a pvp conflict within x seconds, you can't jump at all.

That may sound simple, as many of the so called quick fix's people come up with. However, in realty, it's far more complex.

They have to weigh all the pros and cons when it comes to fixing an exploit before just jumping the gun.

a fix of one could very well lend its slef to other ones, or people crying foul over the fix. Which in its self may be worse then leaving the current cheat/exploit in place.

It's sad that they have to assign <x> amount of valuble developer time to fix the damn thing anyway. That time could be used in furthering the <good> experience of AC, not fixing the BS exploits people chose to use to gain whatever ego advantage it is they're after.

[ChildoftheKoRn]

mistik although your correct about them having to think of the pro's and con's of a quick fix type thing, but i guess that wasnt the case with jump spin now was it? Especially seeing how melees have had the lag attack and gettin stuck almost every 10-20 seconds. *sigh* hopefully they have some coding that will overwrite all the older combat codes so that this stuff will just dissapear, *fingers crossed*

[Virindi Clown]

Someone once said that trying to code in fixes for stuff like that in AC is like yanking out a bunch of strings tied together that are hanging from the cieling. You might get the one out that is causing the problem, but it is going to pull tons more down with it.

If only AC2 had just replaced AC as a better game without a limited design...

[Spk]

Ok, i'll say it once more - There's a VERY easy fix to jump spin : prevent players from turning left or right while in the air WHEN PK/PKL.

1 - The tech to detect if a player is in the air is already there, since there's a "you cannot cast while in the air" error message already

2 - I don't know of any other game elements requiring the player to turn while in the air - plus making the fix only applicable to pk/pkl would have absolutely no impact on the other game mechanics

3 - And please, pretty please, don't tell me it would take a month to code this... Unless they are really imcompetent, have some seriously badly designed code, this should take at most an evening to code. Of course I don't have AC code to judge this, but from my 10 years of programming experience, it sounds more like laziness on Turbine's part than technical difficulty to me.

[Ibn]

We tried that Spk, actually. Funny story, sort of... I think a week or so after I joined the team, two of the Devs were working on exactly your idea. I saw them working on it and posted, "Yes, we've got a fix for Jump Spin right now!" Then I got in trouble for posting that we had a fix when it hadn't been fully tested yet. I learned my lesson, because the fix WASN'T a fix.

Unfortunately, there turned out to be a BIG hurdle here. We simply can't add this restriction for just PK/L. Because jumping is part of the animation system, we'd need some way to change your animation scheme when you switched PK states. Unfortunately any time we tried to do that, the player ended up stuck in portalspace forever or falling through the world, something like that.

So the only way to do it would be to make it so NO ONE could turn in mid-air. This doesn't have any direct impact on the gameplay, but it does take away from the direct control feel that makes AC great. It would cause a HUGE outcry from the community.

Heh, the first paragraph reminded me of something. Today is my first anniversary on the AC1 Live Team.

[Xantcha]

Have you tried removing the stamina gain every 5 or whatever seconds if you're either pk, or pk flagged? The primary issue with jumpspin is that one can gain a small amount of stamina while in midair and immediately jump again upon landing. I don't think this change (if possible) would upset any pks, since mages use revit and melees use stam elixirs.

[Rim]

Being able to turn in mid air means little if anything to non pvp.

Sometimes a good producer takes the heat and does the right thing and ends up with a better game after the cries die down.

[Xen]

If they wanted a better game for both red and white folks, they should just fork the code base and assign separate content development teams for red and white servers. While at it disable reds (and optionally pinks) on white servers. That way white folks no longer have to suffer because of the weird changes done to the game solely because of red issues (e.g. dispel gem changes). And red folks can have their own rules to deal with. Doubt that's ever going to happened but that's really the only "right" solution.

[fashtas]

Well I don't PK/PKLite

I have *NEVER* have PK'd or PKLited

I *WILL NEVER* PK or PKLite

I would be upset if they removed the abiltiy to turn while in mid air.
Ibn is right, the complete control you have over your character is the best aspect of AC1, its a FUN aspect of the game, a major point of difference between it and almost all other MMORPGS out there

I would be very upset if PKers negativly affect my game play in this way

they should just fork the code base
ROFL :) The word "just" and "forking code base" never go together in the same sentance

[Rim]

Fashtas,
Your unwillingness to part with spinning in the air, which has no in game use other than for exploiting PvP has got to be the most selfish and mind-numbingly asinine thing I've ever seen in writing on this message board.

Lets see....

On one had we have a movement that breaks the game for PvP.

On the other hand we have NPKs who want to spin spin spin as they fly through the air.

Jeeze...

[meridian59gar]

I think the vocal minority of people who think PvP isn't part of the game need to be ignored. PvP is the end game of any MMORPG, or you're just wasting your god frickin time on a treadmill to infinity.

PK and NPK are not two different things. They are not separate playstyles. They are two halves of a whole. These ridiculous people who scream "I don't want a PK change to negatively affect ME!!!!" seriously just need to be ignored, or the game will NEVER be fixed.

[Strick]

I can think of at LEAST one reason to turn while in mid-air....

When I teleport to Mt. Lethe, on the loooong drop to the ground, I always turn to the west and hit Q, this way I can hit the ground running in the correct direction to get away from the MoBs waiting to pound me into the ground.

[Hopeslayer]

"When I teleport to Mt. Lethe, on the loooong drop to the ground, I always turn to the west and hit Q, this way I can hit the ground running in the correct direction to get away from the MoBs waiting to pound me into the ground."


Thats why i agree with it. an i pk/pkl all the time

[She-Nyyx]

Originally posted by Ibn
Heh, the first paragraph reminded me of something. Today is my first anniversary on the AC1 Live Team.

Happy anniversary, Ibn. I'll remember it for next year 'cuz it's also my son's birthday :D

[NP-PN]

i am a melee and i believe that mages need jump spin in today's pvp or else it would be dead mages everytime they were targetted by multiple melees.

[Qwilan]

^^^^
That is the goal!

Melee's Rule LOL


Originally posted by meridian59gar
I think the vocal minority of people who think PvP isn't part of the game need to be ignored. PvP is the end game of any MMORPG, or you're just wasting your god frickin time on a treadmill to infinity.

PK and NPK are not two different things. They are not separate playstyles. They are two halves of a whole. These ridiculous people who scream "I don't want a PK change to negatively affect ME!!!!" seriously just need to be ignored, or the game will NEVER be fixed.

The vocal Manority but the playing Majority....

Wanted to point this out

[Dread_Og]

I think some exploits such as jump spin are necessary because there needs to be a way to break sticky, otherwise fights will just be decided by melees running up to somebody and pressing del. It would further encourage ganking and make it impossible to fight the odds. Not sure if you consider that fixing pvp but it would certainly take out any skill involved.

[Other one was too long and didn't make enough sense.]

[Rim]

Dread_Og,
But if they balanced the game instead of balancing the exploits, just think how much more fun PvP would be.

[Baby Ogre]

Count me as one of the "vocal minority" then. I have no objection to others PK PKL etc. but I myself will never do either, never have in any game, never will.

I don't think PvP is the ONLY way to have fun. I have been playing online games since I hosted a WWII game on a BBS with a 300 baud modem many moons ago.

[Dushman]

Originally posted by Dread_Og
I don't have a problem with group combat, but if a player can't kill me 1v1 then they shouldn't be able to kill me 10v1 either.

No single monster can beat me up either... Bring 10 of them in and it changes the odds a bit.

You can beat up anyone on the football team 1v1, so they can't beat you if they all pile on?

Not sure of what point you were trying to make there Dread Og ;)

[pacesetter]

Ibn said:

So the only way to do it would be to make it so NO ONE could turn in mid-air. This doesn't have any direct impact on the gameplay, but it does take away from the direct control feel that makes AC great. It would cause a HUGE outcry from the community.


actually Ibn, it would impact my gameplay as I use this to get away from sticky mobs in PvM also. although it doesn't work for all of the baddies I do lose some of them, thereby making it feasable to turn and fight. The last line in the above statement is true.

I also use it in places like sub to turn as I jump and hit the ground running in the right direction for the portals i want both in PvP and PvM.

A mage needs an escape, just like archers and melee's. That is why we use jump-spin.

A point that many fail to use is that melees and archers also use this to get away from other sticky melees. It is NOT just mages.

So if we all use it, is it STILL an exploit?? or simple an escape?

get rid of stickiness and the problem is solved.

[Darid]

If you remove jump-spin than how will a mage get away from a melee gank squad?

You guys recomended not moving while in air, and what I am wondering is after IBN said it wasnt possible without effecting White World dynamics then why is it still up for debate?

There is no way to get past these two problems, how to get away from a sticky melee(s), and how it is misused 1v1.

Obviously taking away jump-spin is in the coding of jump itself, and with turbine developing an expansion for AC, and 2 new games on top of that I would imagine that would be on the backburner.

Not that they should completly ignore AC, just that god-moding elixirs(using a billion of them and/or using them without the animation) has only been possible at the end of a jump OR when someone is running MiniPK because I have noticed when you click the mini PK elxir button it uses it without animation of your moving.