UCM and DT

[Binky]

Most Darktiders understand why UCM'ing is so enforced on a White Server. If someone is UCM'ing there you can't do anything about it.

UCM'ing is "illegal" because it supposedly disrupts game play. On Darktide this is sooo NOT the case. We have the ability to police our own. We can either Kill the UCM'er, or he will logg off as we show up. In either case he is gone, and in no way disrupting our gameplay. This was brought up to Jessica, via PM's, during the Dev chat (by one of the more mature DT members, yes we do have a few <3) and she agreed to look into it, and seemed kind of surprised that DT was being hit so hard by Admins. Was just curious if this issue has been brought up since the chat, as it seems new accounts are being "attempted" to be banned daily. I even know of a few guys that have been banned WHILE at the keyboard, because they weren't reading the chat window (some of use programs that allow us to see mIRC in our chat windows, and when an Admin comes you can't see him in game etc, so his words could EASILY be spammed away from dIRC chat before you see his "instructions")

UCM'ing on DT is in no way a game breaker, and should not be enforced until such issues as JumpSpinning/godmoding potions are removed. (the main reason jump spin is overally effective is because in peace mode you can still "godmode" aka slide along chugging potions without ever stopping movement, so after you jump spin you can just godmode along refillin your stamina with pots to rinse/repeat).

Thanks for your time,

Binky
Darktide
www.houseofsagacious.com

[Virindi Clown]

They already said they weren't going to change the CoC so that it worked differently on different servers =/

Wish they would survey us. No one would mind. The inconsistent rule enforcement is just a big irritation always lingering over DT. It would be much easier to completely leave it alone, seeing as it almost has been, and that it won't actually hurt anything.

[Ifuritah]

Agree 100%. DT moderates itself for UCM enforcement. It's kinda like finding a needle in a haystack sometimes, but it's fun.

[Binky]

Actually Jessica told us she'd look into it when they had completely taken over etc and were done with all the server moves. She agreed that we do have the ability to police our own =)

[HeXt]

"Darktide moderates it's self"


From what I've seen you guys can't even stop the macroers yourselves either.

[Binky]

Actually 90% of the fighting on DT these days is over "macroable" territory, so UCM's add to the pvp on OUR server. We use Dirc so we see if someone loggs a guildmates UCM, then we go there defend/rinse/repeat. From what you see? I believe I saw Morningthaw in your sig, so you see NOTHING sir =P

[Ifuritah]

From what I've seen you guys can't even stop the macroers yourselves either.

And you know this from word of mouth right.... or wait you probably have your leet dood on dt too so you've been there yourself to watch first hand as the raids enter ulgrims to take out he macros in the back.... I remember a bit ago someone mentioned a king of the hill style of game for AC... DT has one already... it's ulgrims island... whoever controls ulgrims has plenty of mac'n room. It's fun to raid and try to over take something that actually has value again...

[Virindi Clown]

Hey HeXt, did you just imply you don't play on DT, but know what you are talking about when it comes to matters dealing exclusively with DT? That's kind of funny...

What's REALLY funny is that macros just LOG OUT OF THE GAME on DT when you run into them, and on the very rare occassion that they don't, you can easily kill them.

So tell me, how are we having problems?

On DT everyone fights over places to macro. That's just how we play our game. No one should tell us we can't, especially with an inconsistently enforced rule.

Everyone wants to PvP. Therefore, they will do what they can to avoid having to use their play time leveling. There's nothing wrong with playing like that. Gives us SOMETHING to fight over in the game, seeing as everything else is pointless now.

[Ophar Kabitaki]

LOL

That sounds pretty lazy. We want to PvP so we need our macros to level us? I think that is one of the reasons UCMing isn't allowed..you have to level on your own..or "play" the game.

[Ifuritah]

Kinda hard to kill someone when they're level 207 and your 111... thats only like 100 BILLION XP dif..... those guys have 400HP..all stats maxed, not impossible...just difficult. Oh, and unless you play on DT..you have no say. FYI.

[Lavigne]

Ophar, go back to your freewhalers. you have no idea what its like to live on darktide. while you run around in your silly little suits we actually have to fight to run anywhere. and we love it. we form groups to go into any number of choke pionts; AB, Sub, Bobo, Sanc... the list goes on, and our only purpose is to run into another group and to fight them. that is what drives us, THAT is playing. we do play the game, we play it to its fullest extent, and levelling gets int he way of that.

[HeXt]

Originally posted by Binky
Actually 90% of the fighting on DT these days is over "macroable" territory, so UCM's add to the pvp on OUR server. We use Dirc so we see if someone loggs a guildmates UCM, then we go there defend/rinse/repeat. From what you see? I believe I saw Morningthaw in your sig, so you see NOTHING sir =P


As far as YOU know I don't. ;) I get around, Sir.

[Virindi Clown]

Hey Ophar, you know whats kind of odd? For years it was ALLOWED to run a UCM. So then they just cut it off in the middle of it and tell us we cant after others had already used it to reach higher levels? Yeah right, like everyone is going to hunt their way to level 200 now.

Not like the admins can actually stop all the UCMs to make it fair, even if macroed chars didn't still exist.

People seem to complain most about macros because they take up dungeons and people can't hunt there and things like that. Seeing as they can't all be stopped from making any free xp at all, the main reason it is a bannable offense is to keep macros from ruining the actual playing experience of someone who runs into them.

On DT, we do not have that problem because the macros log and we can kill them. If the xp thing even was a really big issue, we could actually stop macros from making xp better than admins if we wanted. It's not that big of a deal to us, so everyone just macros and doesn't worry about it.

It stays fair that way, and the only problem we have is that the non-existant admins decide to appear out of thin air once every 3 months and bother random people while others are left alone. That is unfair in so many ways that I cannot even understand it.

We did not ask for that, and we do not need it.

[Binky]

Hey Ophar, you know whats kind of odd? For years it was ALLOWED to run a UCM. So then they just cut it off in the middle of it and tell us we cant after others had already used it to reach higher levels? Yeah right, like everyone is going to hunt their way to level 200 now

--------------------------------------------------------

UCM was mad illegal because of the rampant protesting of guys from the white servers. Kinda curious why policing of this was even started on DT as I'm sure maybe 10 guys TOPS ever came to a board and complained about it on DT =P

[Whisp'r]

Never tried extended UCMing but Ill gladly admit to leavin the characters to the discretion of el tank and a good fellow while I attend to nature or handle some business IRL (yes I work at home while I play AC...HATE ME...LOL). Everyone from DT really has the same view on it. VC and Binky are correct in their asessment that we can handle it ourselves.

To stop it now or ban someone for doing it would only reward the ones that have already got their UBER 190 levels from it.

I cant beleive I actually read someone saying something to the effect of the way its done on DT does not seem like fun to them. I chuckled.

WHO CARES IF U DONT THINK ITS FUN!

We of DT really do have a different style of play and a different attitude about the game as a whole.

Id rather see 50 bloods macroing and not do a thing about it, than let someone from another server dictate policy or procedure for our little family on DT.

Even enemies to us are fun, without them we'd have no DT. Heck some of the people I HATE the most are people i have grown to RESPECT over the years, and if they wanna UCM let them. (That goes for my friends IG as well...LOL).

[Rak -=KoC=-]

As binky pointed out, UCM territory is pretty much the only thing left in this game to fight for... Pretty much everything became nerfed/useless (ie: town, then ls controle). If we can't fight for macro spots what is there left to do?

If we wanted to waste our time/hands killing the same creatures manually over and over we wouldn't have chosen DT... Its a PK server for god sake...

For someone to UCM at a spot, he needs himself or his monarchy to controle this spot and dissuade other monarchies from going there. If my influence as a player is enough to secure a zone from other players for my character to level even while I'm afk, no admin should be interfearing with that and ruin the work I or my monarchy put in controling this spot.

Noone is asking Turbine to change its CoC. The CoC may have a sense on white servers where leveling is a major part of the game accomplishement and where players can't prevent others from leveling at specific places. <=== But thats all I will say since I don't care nor feal I should tell white servers how they should play.

Just, don't enforce it for Darktide. After all there is a warning when you log on Darktide, saying the server isn't like the others.

If there was to be a poll between the leaders of the main monarchies on DT, its obvious we'd all answer the same thing: Stop banning people for UCMing and let us play the game and police it ourself. Thats prolly one of the rare common points we share.

On a side note, I was controlled by an Admin 20 minutes before Ibn announced on VN that the last 3 days and the next 3 days of gaming were not going to be saved due to a huge rollback happening on monday.
I love how I could have been banned from the game for some XP which wouldn't have been saved... yet of course I bet my ban wouldn't have been rolledback...
Since I was attending I didn't get banned, but I must say it was quite humiliating to be forced by an Admin to do YMCA emotes... Nice way to treat your customers... next time maybe he'll ask me to bend over... :)

[AzulDrakkon]

I hate UCMacros of any sort, if I see a macro you better hope I like you cuz otherwise I'm gonna report you from every one of my characters, hop on a friends account and report you from his...just because we can kill em doesn't mean its fair to those who play legit.

[Virindi Clown]

The fact remains that for a huge amount of time UCM was legal. This is not a question of what is "legit" or not, because the thing that is least legit is not people "cheating" but that after people were allowed to do it, they were basically rewarded for doing something that was to become against the rules before others did.

[Phat-DT]

UCM spots are what big guilds on DT fight for. UCM is really what most of the powerfull guilds revolve arround. Ive macroed, and gone away from computer for long enough to take a ****, but usually i sit infront of my computer the whole time. what makes DT fun is having something to fight for. in the past you could fight so you could be considered godly. the removal of runcast took this out. In the past you could fight for control of good towns. the sell rate nerfs broke this, and candeth with the quest just isnt worth it to many many players(myself included). now we have 1 thing left to fight for...hunting spots. with the ammount of hunting spots available on DT, nobody would ever have to fight for them unless they were able to UCM. thats also what i dont like about removing XP chains. getting XP from UCMers gives pvpers a reason to defend them. It was almost an XP economy on DT. This will be basically gone after XP chain changes:(.

[Spoiled]

Why play on DT? When i started on DT it was for the pvp, my guild (BRN) LSed at a central LS. If people raided town we all got together and kicked them out... Then they nerfed sell rates, and added mansion, so of course he had no need for a common LS...

Next we fought for our dungeon, nice xp, many sings (talking about chakron for those of you that dont know) safe place... Only place we had that was a mandatory common recall... So everyone defended... Tusker island opened up, more olthoi spots opened, more recalls (ulgrims isle, caul, linthe, etc) and we no longer needed a 'safe' dungeon due to the fact that every time we were discovered we could just move...

We made our home at Tusker Tunnels and defended it with great zeal. Macroing 24/7 and what not... UCM becomes illegal we all start recieving bans, fark that... We havent really been back since, and guess what many people have quit, sold and many dont care to fight anymore as there is no reason.

Now you can have 3 portal ties, 2 LS ties and multiple spot specific recalls, if someone is camping your favorite dungeon just recall to annother dungeon... There is no reason to defend a spot. No reason to fight.

There is no reason for the admins to enforce UCM banning on DT due to the fact that it was put in place for WHITE DOT SERVERS to get macros out of heavily trafficed dungeons such as the tusker island dungeons, programs like eltank were making peoples hunting expierences miserable. DT if this is the case the macro will log so you cant kill it or you ccan simply kill the macro.

One may raise the argument "What is a level 60 suposed to do when a level 130+ resist mage is macroing his hunting spot and doesnt have auto log". If it was me ide try to kill the mage, if that didnt work i would
A) call a friend
B) If im a loser and dont have friends (who on DT doesnt have friends?) i consider myself lucky and hunt around the macro, obviously if the person wasnt afk i would be dead and pissed due to 40 vitae and the lack of friends to help me kill it... I would also loot his kills, possibly attempt to fellow with him..


"This is not a normal Asheron's Call world. Please exit and try a different world if you are not prepared for a harsh existance..."
Harsh existance, if you cant hunt due to the fact that you favorite dungeon on frostfell is camped on DT by PKs so they can macro there you should not be able to report them to the admins and have them banned. If a character you are unable to kill is macroing you spot, tough luck...

"Other players, regardless of level, situation, or fairness can at all times attack you."
I dont think this means "if you are level 60 and cant kill a level 100+ you can just report abuse them, i maybe wrong...

"Admins are observing. Please do not complain if you are attacked or betrayed..."
Please dont complain if something is unfair, which that translates to in my head... Including an AFK character you are unable to kill...


Whats next, if i go afk in a noob outpost on a buffed char and prevent people from doing the noob quest can i get banned for disrupting their game? Or is that different?

[TheeAngryOne]

Yeah no point in defending towns anymore since they made mansions. So now we defend dungeons because it poses more of a challenge. And without ucm, its hard to compete at times.

[Virindi Clown]

Problems in a nutshell:

Nerfed sell rates+allegiance housing barriers (not your own house, just allegiance)

So then we have dungeons to fight over...

No worthwhile xp for the time spent manually hunting+the vast majority of good xp dungeons on bobo

Well, then we just end up with people macroing all over. You don't really fight OVER macro spots for control, because people get logged. It's just common knowledge that one group owns one place and another group owns another, so it balances out.

[HeXt]

lol "Fight for UCM spots" that just sounds like an oxymoron.


How can someone fight that's not even there to play?


And btw: all that lag everyone complains about, it's from those UCMers all in different spots trying to level.


Notice the lag is less since decal wasn't there? Sure there wasnt that many other players totally but there wasnt bots spread out through every dungeon trying to get exp.

[Lutieus]

The UCMs aren't the ones who fight, Sherlock.

[HeXt]

Originally posted by Lutieus
The UCMs aren't the ones who fight, Sherlock.


ok bud, but you missed the point...


Why would it be so important to "fight for these spots" if you're not even fighting anyone? It's like fighting a NPC...


Yeah, there's pvp skill :/ borrrrrrrringggggggggg.

[TheeAngryOne]

Everyone in the allegiance isn't macroing smarts. Plus its boring manually hunting on DT and macroing is easier to gain some levels to compete when you are alittle too low (like below 50). But Mike, you wouldn't know since you are stuck on o.0 world Morningthaw going around trying to ride everyones back like a horse.

[Lutieus]

No, YOU missed the point. Live players fight other live players for control of prime spots. Or failing that, they'll conduct extended raiding campaigns against each other, with the purpose being to log off or kill an enemy's macro chars so often that they simply cannot macro there. Except where only one or two chars are disrupted, live skirmishes almost invariably occur as well. People will even switch to guerilla tactics, macroing attended and setting ambushes for raiders who think they're only attacking UCMs. In these cases it becomes a contest of wills, between the macroers and their opponents, to see who gives up first. Remember that DT is the land of egos and pride. For us, breaking an enemy's will is often more satisfying than any DIs.

[TheeAngryOne]

I thought you played DT Mike? Or you do play DT but you play with a lvl 7 noob? lol

[Mooman]

It is obvious u have to play DT (really play it...not play a noob and kill other noobs at starter towns.) to understand what we are talking about. I dunno why ppl from other servers even come to this post in the first place...WHy the hell should they care if DT macros or not...If they wanna macro they can come to DT....but i'll tell u..they still have to lvl to lvl 90 b4 they macro or they can fork over $150 on ebay...so either way...u stupid O.os can gb2ff or mt or what ever server u come from....kthxbye

[Virindi Clown]

People won't macro somewhere there is lots of fighting. ONE person running around will log everyone.

The thought here is along the right lines, but the wording used isn't.

Macro spots aren't the last thing we FIGHT over, they are the last thing anyone actually CLAIMS and CONTROLS now. We don't fight over that, we just are aware of them and sometimes make sure to go and bother them =)

Like I said before, everyone accepts that someone owns this place to macro and someone owns that one.

There may have been some fighting originally (like when bobo came out), but people MUST eventually settle out to different places where they can macro without being logged.

[Krazed]

Originally posted by Ophar Kabitaki
LOL

That sounds pretty lazy. We want to PvP so we need our macros to level us? I think that is one of the reasons UCMing isn't allowed..you have to level on your own..or "play" the game.

[Krazed]

Actually we are playing the game....We are killing each other since the quest rewards are usless due to high value.

On white servers since there is so little pvp you quest and level all day with no problems thats the way your server plays.

[Spoiled]

Originally posted by HeXt
And btw: all that lag everyone complains about, it's from those UCMers all in different spots trying to level.


Notice the lag is less since decal wasn't there? Sure there wasnt that many other players totally but there wasnt bots spread out through every dungeon trying to get exp.

no **** lag is less, less people are playing because they dont have their plugs to scan corpses, detect pks and most of all buff them...


instead of logging off and doing my guild/patron no good when im at work ill make xp for them, and if im in brn or hos or any other guild that loot macros ill get money for plats and items to give to people who need them (the pvpers), in the end everyone benefits from everyone... I benefit from the pvpers defending, they benefit from my XP and wealth

[Binky]

Actually we DO fight over macro spots.


You see when people are macroing they also have programs they report to a guild mIRC room (and everyone in the guild has a lovely program that allows us to see mIRC while in game). We notice our guildmates are getting logged off in so and so dungeon and those of us out raiding pay the perpetrators (sp?) a little visit. Then after we clear out our dungeon, we in turn pay back the perps by raiding the dungeon that their guildmates macro in.

Rememeber, people from EVERY time zone play this game (especially since DT is the ONLY pk server so we have no "everyone in Euro just play FrostFell" occurances). While the Euro guys are UCM'ing their American guildies are usually defending their UCM's and when the American guys are UCM'ing their Euro guildies defend them etc etc etc.

ANYONE with common sense knows why UCM'ing was made illegal and it was COMPLETELY for the white dot servers. As usuall the impact/effect of this on Darktide was never even taken into consideration. Find me five guys on Darktide who think UCM'ing is bad, and I bet 4 out of those 5 are below level 40 and are really someone who play a white dot server mainly. Also for those five guys you found, I'll find 500 that think it should remain part of DT life. Don't believe me? Log in an Admin and just start randomly polling/messaging anyone on Darktide =P

Life is COMPLETELY different on DT than other other server. We know this, the o.O's know this, and the admins/devs know this. So WHY is the server still treated like a white dot server when it comes to rules/pvpenhancements/new item releases etc?


As for saying DT is a dying server that should just be ignored. DT is the ONLY server whose population is still GROWING not decreasing. Everyday another few o.O's get bored on their server and start fresh on DT. Maybe one out of 5 of these guys actually stick it out and remain here, but thats 1 person a day leaving a white server for DT. White dot servers are shrinking and ours is growning......so give us some <3!!!!!

[KPD157]

I've been playing DT for the last month and I find it very enjoyable Mostly because the "Monsters" come into town and beat you up and take your loot :) I plan on staying here on DT as I have on other servers but I do have to make a comment on this Forum.

UCMing is Against the COC there is no doubt about that. Darktide and all other Servers follow the COC because its enforced with Bans and Warnings. In the Welcome screen for Dartide there is a warning that Violating the COC will get you in trouble with the Admins.

Its a cool world I have met lots of people who just out right kill me and those that sort of are honorable and all :) thats how I feel about the UCMing in DarkTide :)

[HeXt]

Originally posted by TheeAngryOne
Everyone in the allegiance isn't macroing smarts. Plus its boring manually hunting on DT and macroing is easier to gain some levels to compete when you are alittle too low (like below 50). But Mike, you wouldn't know since you are stuck on o.0 world Morningthaw going around trying to ride everyones back like a horse.


You know zilch about me. :) I play DT. ;)

[Ibn]

Apologies, there is an aspect to this argument that I don't understand.

The claim is made that the only things worth fighting for are UCM locations.

Let's say that all macro apps stopped working tomorrow -- wouldn't these still be prime hunting locations? Wouldn't you still be trying to defend them, so that your allegiance-mates could hunt there?

I swear I remember defending prime hunting grounds to be a common activity on Darktide before macros really got big. I didn't play on DT at the time, but I read the forums.

[TheeAngryOne]

You know zilch about me. I play DT.

Sure you do Mike. If you play DT, I doubt you will be saying bs o.0 to the xtreme comments like "why you guys fighting over hunting spots??" People who play DT dont want to hear that.


Let's say that all macro apps stopped working tomorrow -- wouldn't these still be prime hunting locations? Wouldn't you still be trying to defend them, so that your allegiance-mates could hunt there?

When macroing programs are down, alot of people either dont play at all or you see more people out in the open.

[Hubbell]

Noone, I repeat NOONE is going to manually hunt the current macro dungeons except for certain ones because of the insane amount of cash (1mill an hour at the very least + salvage) or xp (VOD Dungeon, Caul, VOD itself, NOT lacuna) they produce. DT will simply stagnate if all macros broke and there was nothing left to fight over. Macros are ingame 24/7 usually and if we kill a guilds macros we kill their xp. After the chain fix this might change though...

[Spoiled]

Originally posted by Ibn
Let's say that all macro apps stopped working tomorrow -- wouldn't these still be prime hunting locations? Wouldn't you still be trying to defend them, so that your allegiance-mates could hunt there?

I swear I remember defending prime hunting grounds to be a common activity on Darktide before macros really got big. I didn't play on DT at the time, but I read the forums.


first off: the places that are macroed are macroed due to the fact that they are a definite spawn and decent XP, not exactly the best XP... You can make more on caul, VoD, etc and you can deal with PKs easier if you arent macroing obviously... If someone decided to camp where we are hunting we would prolly just pack up and move to annother location since you have flooded the map with prime XP spots... Its a lot easier to move a fellow of actives than a fellow of macros...


I dont honestly know anyone that hunts, a lot acm, but not hunt...


We dont play darktide to play against computer monsters, we play to play against people... Right now im attended macroing... im alt tabbing from time to time working on an essay, writing this, aim and irc...


and in regards to the message about admins on DT, did you not read what i posted... they also say they wont interfere regardless of how unfair something is...

[Jojji]

Ibn,

Your responses to threads about DT and macros really show why the Dev team is out of touch with the PvP'ers.

Most of us find little to no enjoyment from killing mobs. Truthfully, I've yet to find a quest or mob that I find fun.

Give me 6 hours of fights, with little lag...and I'm having a hell of a good time.

Thats what the Dev team is missing.

DT has always made it's own "events". Unfortunately the Devs have always found ways to kill those events. Adding housing, safe zones, refusing to fix gear/exploits until most were so fed up they just moved on.

When it comes to Macros, once more you are 4 years to late. As an example. Our chain pushed 2-400M per day. Thats chain only and not a 100% pass up chain. In otherwords our chain sucks. Can you imagine the XP that is bring produced in those chains that are not "sucking"?

You honestly think someone is going to spend the time/effort to manually level to the point they can compete with those who have has in chains making 600M+ per day for 1? 2? years?

We play DT to fight. Once you understand that then you need to understand we also need a reason to control/hold areas. I'm not expecting you to change your mind or truthfully even give it a second thought...your comments here and on several other threads have already shown your mind is made up.

So explain to me, how are you and this dev team any different than those that came before you...that created the have/have nots...with GSA (pre), etc.

[Spoiled]

Originally posted by Jojji
Ibn,

Your responses to threads about DT and macros really show why the Dev team is out of touch with the PvP'ers.

Most of us find little to no enjoyment from killing mobs. Truthfully, I've yet to find a quest or mob that I find fun.

Give me 6 hours of fights, with little lag...and I'm having a hell of a good time.

Thats what the Dev team is missing.

DT has always made it's own "events". Unfortunately the Devs have always found ways to kill those events. Adding housing, safe zones, refusing to fix gear/exploits until most were so fed up they just moved on.

When it comes to Macros, once more you are 4 years to late. As an example. Our chain pushed 2-400M per day. Thats chain only and not a 100% pass up chain. In otherwords our chain sucks. Can you imagine the XP that is bring produced in those chains that are not "sucking"?

You honestly think someone is going to spend the time/effort to manually level to the point they can compete with those who have has in chains making 600M+ per day for 1? 2? years?

We play DT to fight. Once you understand that then you need to understand we also need a reason to control/hold areas. I'm not expecting you to change your mind or truthfully even give it a second thought...your comments here and on several other threads have already shown your mind is made up.

So explain to me, how are you and this dev team any different than those that came before you...that created the have/have nots...with GSA (pre), etc.

annother reason i love being allied with HOS...


Ibn, who are you listening to who are telling you to not reevaluate your stance on combat macros? some gimp anti who is pissed about some 126s moving in on their spot and setting up camp there? or the PKL people who say macroing ruined their pvp event because team fluffy snowball over powers team beautiful flame due to the fact one team has 126s and the other has 200s... Listen to the DTers, they can do something on their own about macros, be it they defend them or kill them...


Note to DTers: if you support macroing protect macros and macro yourself... if you dont support macros raid the hell out of them and if you are a level 15 who cant raid anyone post you whiney ass complaints about macros and their loacations on VN boards with all the other carebear trash to get flamed and have an army of carebear ebay recruits go ruin the guys macro spot along with your hunting spot...



sounds easy to me...

[TheeAngryOne]

Originally posted by Ibn
Apologies, there is an aspect to this argument that I don't understand.

The claim is made that the only things worth fighting for are UCM locations.

Let's say that all macro apps stopped working tomorrow -- wouldn't these still be prime hunting locations? Wouldn't you still be trying to defend them, so that your allegiance-mates could hunt there?

I swear I remember defending prime hunting grounds to be a common activity on Darktide before macros really got big. I didn't play on DT at the time, but I read the forums.

And you devs play DT? I dont believe it for sure now with these out of the blue comments you guys make.

[Spoiled]

Originally posted by TheeAngryOne
And you devs play DT? I dont believe it for sure now with these out of the blue comments you guys make.


if they do i bet they 'play' DT on a preleveled char, and only pvp... either that or they treat it like a carebear server and hide in a dungeon or something and be like HEHEHEHEHE I CODED THIS TUSKER

[TheeAngryOne]

LOL if they "play" DT, they play chess all day scared to actually go out and raise hell like warriors.

[Virindi Clown]

Yeah we defended and hunted places when there were no macros. Atleast, when you could actually see the xp from the monsters you kill make a difference on your character.

Most macro places are horribly boring for hunting, and not really good in the first place. They are a compromise. You won't die, but over time it comes out to be good xp.

People only hunt things capable of 20+ mil/hr that I really see. You can't run a macro that does that much, and only a few places can yield that much xp, but there are a heck of lot of places where you can macro 12 mil/hr all day and night.

[Binky]

Originally posted by TheeAngryOne
LOL if they "play" DT, they play chess all day scared to actually go out and raise hell like warriors.


Funny thing is ........ In the last Dev chat, after all the dumb spamming from my own server mates, Jessica stated that she didn't hate DT and they all played DT, then also mentioned that they do play chess on DT keke.


Ibn, go to www.treestats.com and look up the Darktide Server. You will notice that the top 100 levels on the server are 90% Bloods (Blood DID just have a split up so some might be Invincible Doomgaze's now). The other 9% are another guild and the last 1% is everyone else. Take away macroing and one or two guilds stay ahead while all the rest fall behind. Yeah Blood was based around just xp and have gotten WAY ahead of everyone else, but we don't complain about it, as long as we know there IS a way for us to slowly catchup =P

Let's say I play AC 4 hours a day. I AM on Darktide so assume I spend HALF that time at least only pvping. Let's assume all other bs aside (dropping vp from pvping for 2 hours/equiping/muling) I can actively PVM for XP for an hour or so a night. Let's also assume I find a middle range xp spot (not everyone has access too a fellow to hunt with/high level hunting areas) at around 10 mill xp an hour. So I make 10 mill xp a day. In a year I'd make 3.65 billion xp.

Level 200 is 40 billion xp so in TEN YEARS I can finally "catch up" to a character the Blood xp chain can crank out in a few months tops (and has been doing for the last 2 years). Level 200 is actually a "lowbie" for the core blood chain, and no where near all their characters show stats or even use treestats............It'd take me almost TWENTY FIVE years to "catch up" to some of their higher level guys =P

[CouchAttack]

with the exception of Ibn and a few of the other o.Os, this post has been overrun by IQ.

Btw, to all o.Os, how this on an example of well thought out things to make a point? HUH!?!?!

[Nub]

Originally posted by Spoiled
B) If im a loser and dont have friends (who on DT doesnt have friends

I don't! (have friends that is)

I also don't macro...Although I could care less if others do. People really only care about what puts THEM ahead. I always see someone guy crying about some other guy macroing...Right up until the point when he starts macroing...And then it is all fine and good.

I would like to suggest that they create a new server where macros were banned so people could choose how they want to play and everyone will be happy, but lets face it...It will never happen, not because Turbine doesn't care, but because you just can't stop macros. Decal is a HACK...If they stopped it, someone else would just come up with something else. You could make it difficult to macro, but you just ain't going to stop it.

If you don't macro...Well, face it, you ain't going to beat them, so might as well join them...Download the software and let the computer do the work for you. I, myself, still enjoy playing the game and guess I will continue to play the old fashioned way until I get sick of it.

[Phat-DT]

Originally posted by Ibn
Apologies, there is an aspect to this argument that I don't understand.

The claim is made that the only things worth fighting for are UCM locations.

Let's say that all macro apps stopped working tomorrow -- wouldn't these still be prime hunting locations? Wouldn't you still be trying to defend them, so that your allegiance-mates could hunt there?

I swear I remember defending prime hunting grounds to be a common activity on Darktide before macros really got big. I didn't play on DT at the time, but I read the forums.


The problem with saying these locations will still be good for manual hunting is that there are now far to many spots. if UCMing was gone there would be no point in defending AL drop, it would be all about defending whatever dungeon you are hunting in at the time. With UCMing you can have a full fellow macroing in each of many dungeons and you then must fight for every dungeon, as people often run through AL drop NPK, and also control the drop to make sure no large groups get through.

NO guild on DT is big enough to manual hunt more than 1 or 2 dungeons. and there arent enough guilds to make any dungeon really be in demand. I remember defending hunting dungeons on darktide as well, but since the introduction of more and more good hunting locations this has become pointless.


Edit: No need to trash talk ibn. He didnt understand something so explain it to him to the best of your ability. Flaming a dev probably isnt the best way to get what you want, although im sure there good at ignoring flames by now.

[Ibn]

Originally posted by Jojji
Your responses to threads about DT and macros really show why the Dev team is out of touch with the PvP'ers.

Most of us find little to no enjoyment from killing mobs. Truthfully, I've yet to find a quest or mob that I find fun.

I understand that, but I think the responses here are missing my point.

Yes, you don't want to have to fight monsters, you want to fight each other, you only gain XP to get better at fighting other players, I understand that completely. But that's not what this thread is about. If macros were removed tomorrow, this wouldn't change.

You'd still have to gain XP somehow, and you'd find the optimal places to do this. Then you would fight over said places.

I suppose the alternate is that no one would ever bother trying to level their character again?

[Ibn]

Originally posted by TheeAngryOne
When macroing programs are down, alot of people either dont play at all or you see more people out in the open.

An interesting point about this... when Decal was down, my observation was that DT lost a smaller % of players than the white servers. While a lot of this can be attributed to the smaller # of buffbots on DT (and no tradebots in Marketplace), I'm not sure that this attributes for ALL of it.

[Ibn]

Originally posted by Phat-DT
NO guild on DT is big enough to manual hunt more than 1 or 2 dungeons. and there arent enough guilds to make any dungeon really be in demand. I remember defending hunting dungeons on darktide as well, but since the introduction of more and more good hunting locations this has become pointless.

Ah, this makes sense to me, this is what I was missing. There are many more good hunting locations than there are good macro locations. So if macroing goes away, everyone becomes more spread out and there are no choke points.

Really, the solution (as has been suggested time and time again) is to create more things for PKs to fight over.

...which is something we're working on. You'll see one small (small) example of this in February.

[TheeAngryOne]

Fight over bases or hideouts?

[Lil_Monsta]

Holy cow did this hit the nail on the head. we can handle our UCm on dt! It does give us something to fihgt over. I think we would rather fight over macro spots than set up bots in the marketplace. :eek:

[Lil_Monsta]

Originally posted by Ibn
Ah, this makes sense to me, this is what I was missing. There are many more good hunting locations than there are good macro locations. So if macroing goes away, everyone becomes more spread out and there are no choke points.

Really, the solution (as has been suggested time and time again) is to create more things for PKs to fight over.

...which is something we're working on. You'll see one small (small) example of this in February.
I didn't see this before i posted. Yes! You are correct give us things to fight over!

[Genji-Glove]

I think that finding something else to fight over is alot better idea than allowing us to fight over macro dungeons.

Hopefully whatever they are thinking of has an xp reward or something because leveling blows.

EDIT: On a side note, dungeons have been becoming too spread out so that there are too many places to level.

[Ivanhoe]

Im totally against FREE xp.
XP chains and Macroing = free xp to me.


I was Glad when Turbine announced ucm enforcement
HOWEVER, they have failed to do so after all this time.

Letting the game turn into the macros vs the non macros

And in PvP the macros always win (more free xp)

Due to their failure with Ucm's I now would be in favor of player enforcement instead.

The server is to far gone in regards to high lvl macros vs very low level playes trying to hunt/level on their own.

[Jojji]

You'd still have to gain XP somehow, and you'd find the optimal places to do this. Then you would fight over said places. - Ibn

No most that I know would not bother leveling anymore. Then once they got tired of the level of chars they were fighting agianst, knowing there is zero chance to reach that level themselves...they would just move on.

Personally, I'm still not understanding you. When the COC change was put in place, originally the reasoning behind it: They were taking over places people wanted to quest, hunt, loot, etc. Originally, the dev's stated if your going to macro I suggest you do it someplace out of the way. Originally the devs stated a person needs to report a macro and their coords...Much like alot of things in todays world, it appears you have taken much liberty with the original interpretations and read alot into the very limited survey that was done.

You have now skirted around the main questions I have asked about UMC's and DT three times now. You have made your thoughts behind UMC's and DT very clear more than once. I'm glad you and the rest of the dev's value the input of your players...

[StabA]

WARNING! Normal rules do not apply in this world. Please read the message on the character list screen.

Currently 946 clients connected.
You are in the world of DARKTIDE (PK Only).

*** WARNING! PLEASE READ THIS! ***
This is not a normal Asheron's Call world. Please exit and try a different world if you are not prepared for a very harsh existence.
Read warning below for more details

WARNING: Unlike every other world you can play in, this is a "PK Only" world. In this world, you are ALWAYS A PLAYER-KILLER. Other players, regardless oflevel, situation, or fairness, can at all times attack you. You are temporarily a Non-Player-Killer after death, but otherwise you are always PK

Admins are observing. Please do not complain if you are attacked or betrayed, but offensive language and real-world threats are actionable violations of the Code of Conduct

[Ibn]

Originally posted by Jojji
Originally, the dev's stated if your going to macro I suggest you do it someplace out of the way.

This was never stated by a member of the Dev Team, the quote that I believe you're referring to was made by someone at Microsoft.

The reasons that you stated for UCM being disallowed are not the only ones. I was not on the team when the decision to disallow them was made, so I can't speak to why the original reasoning, but right now I'd say the primary factor at this point in the game is this:

You shouldn't be rewarded for playing the game if you're not actually playing the game.

(Outside of the allegiance system, of course.)

Naturally it would be possible to extend this reasoning to such things as buffbots, portalbots, and tradebots, but these types of scripts do not cause the same outcry as combat macros. So a compromise has been reached.

While I understand that defending macros and macro locations is a game in and of itself on Darktide, we would prefer to give you other things to fight over rather than allowing UCMing for this purpose.

[Velaxis]

Thank you for your responses Ibn, excuse my slight sarcasm at the bottom here.

So now we have 4 key steps of logic to consider here:

1) Turbine has bought AC from Microsoft and wants to re-market the game to NEW and old players.

+

2) Turbine just cut XP chains off at the knees

+

3) While skill does play a part in PvP combat, levels like the ones we're talking about (150+) make or break PvP combat.

+

4) No replacement method for the afformentioned "remarketed" new players to gain significant levels

= A total contradiction in philosophy and a recipe for disaster.

You might as well change the DT log-in to:

WARNING: Unlike every other world you can play in, this is a "PK Only" world. In this world, you are ALWAYS A PLAYER-KILLER. Other players, regardless oflevel, situation, or fairness, can at all times attack you. You are temporarily a Non-Player-Killer after death, but otherwise you are always PK.

And due to changes that we have recently made, it will now take you 25 years to compete with characters that were created 4 months ago We apologize if this has caused you any inconvenience in your Darktide play experience. Enjoy your time in Dereth!!

[Velaxis]

And let me add that I played AC from Nov. 99 until Nov. 01, and now only returned 3 months ago because I realized the PvP was the best thing out there by a long shot.

I'm the "old" player you're trying to bring back to the game.

I am now only level 91, giving me no way to compete with a level 210 created over the last 4 months due to XP chains.

I can tell you right now that as a "prodigal player" who has returned after 2 years that I won't be around longer than another month if I have to earn 32 billion XP through manually (can't UCM) killing Tuskers to compete with a character created ONE MONTH before I arrived.

Are you considering players like me? (Your new "target demographic")

[Nub]

Why should it be so easy to be a high level in this game? I am sick of people whining about how this server is only fun if you are level 120+. Granted, for a long while, due to the exploits of xp-chains and macroing, there are going to be some out there that are high level that, in my opinion, do not deserve their level...But that can't be helped...Over time, if the exploits are removed, it will go back to being the people who work (and play) the hardest that will be the ones who are the most powerful...It won't be about who has the fanciest macro. There is no solution to what has already been done...But I don't think that is an excuse to keep letting problem exist.

[Ibn]

Under the new allegiance XP system it's still possible to rapidly power-level individual characters. You just can't power-chain them in bulk.

[Velaxis]

You're right, it can't be helped. So now, they'll *always* be 200+ and I'll *always* be sub 120 (there's no changing this fact). So they'll *always* wipe the floor with me. That'll be lots of fun for me and all the other new players coming into the game. Really it will be a blast.

What will happen now is that all the 150+ chars will have their own little inbred party while no new blood comes into the server . . . and it dies.

[CouchAttack]

Ibn, doesnt that just help SELECT people MORE? Seriously, think about what you just said. That means less people will be higher level, but WTF DO YOU THINK THEY ARE GOING TO DO LET THE LOWER LEVELS FIGHT EACH OTHER?


Everyone interacts with everyone, and if you are actually thinking it will be fair for less people to have higher level characters, and completely removing the chance for other characters, I honestly do think that the Dev Team needs to be reworked.

[Velaxis]

I don't understand how the new system will allow power-levelling of characters!?

So I take 1 character, and swear to my friend. Then I spend 1 year getting to level 126 and my friend is now level 121. How does this help either of us vs. level 200's?

If you mean taking 12 people who are willing to swear to one character and make 5 billion XP each through killing tuskers for 3 years without UCMs then yes you can power-level new characters to compete with "old chain characters". But where are people going to find 12 other people willing to make XP for you at this rate, for this long?

And if your respones is "by being a good patron to them", then you are not in touch with Darktide - asking someone if they want to be your vassel in exchange for "experienced advice" is pretty much the biggest insult you can offer.

[Screaming Sheep]

I am also in the I quit 2 years ago and only have a level 100ish mage boat and I hate to say that I am considering quitting again with the upcoming allegiance xp changes.

The only way that I am EVER (within 3-6 months) going to be able to compete in pvp is if I either have the current chain system or am able to UCM.

At this point I am dealing with people who can debuff me to the point where I can never land and people that can tank 2+ wars in a row without dieing due to their 350+ health, and the only way I can compete at this point is to level and pray that someday i can close some of the gap betwen our chars.

With the ability to UCM myself and others in the same position as myself (or god forbid anyone should ever want to make a new charachter) I have the possiblity of catching up to those who are 100+ levels above me as long as I and my monarchy are able to hold a macroable dungeon.

If you think that I will actively watch my charachter macro 20 hours a day 7 days a week for the next 3 months to have a decent charachter to PvP with you are sadly mistaken.

Will I help protect macro spots when I am home and UCM when I am not? Definitely.

And as to the % drop in players on DT when decal was down I would like to remind you that DT was down for OVER a week prior to the January patch and myself and many others that I know had completed many trades prior to the announcment of the wipe and spent most of the decal downtime catching back up on those trades.

Just my 12.95 of course, but if I am unable to compete because I cannot feasibly catchup to the people above me I will simpy quit again and not come back.

On a positive note even tho I am getting slaughtered on a regular basis I am having a ball playing again.

:D

Screaming Sheep
DT

[Velaxis]

Wow I'm on a roll.

With all that I've just said Ibn, let me just say that I admire you for keeping your job. Your job is to give the best truthful answer you can with a smile while everyone else dumps on you saying whatever they please. If I had a penny for everytime you wished you could reach through the screen and throttle some out of touch raving lunatic I bet I'd be rich.

All that to say thank you for your patience and putting up with our ****. =/. At least for me it's partial therapy by venting my frustrations related to this.

[Virindi Clown]

Ok, you would prefer to give us things to fight over...

If the exploits go the players who work at it will eventually get what they deserve...

So how about this? We get REAL dungeons that make REAL xp even if you are level 126 so that we have somewhere you can actually reach a macro chained char's level through legitimate means.

Either way, the new system still says you will never be able to compare unless you macro. Basically, it just reinforces it, because you can't combine the xp of a bunch of people randomly hunting normally.

[Genji-Glove]

the difference between a level 126 and a 200 isnt quite as big as most of you make it out to be.

im only a level 93, (ive played on DT for 4 years and never got past this level) and ive killed countless 126+ characters and a few that i know for certain are 170+ like para god

[Aesthetic]

I vote they make a new pvp server with the new system.

[Virindi Clown]

I know I'd never kill a level 200+ with my level 94 mage. A war and a few streaks and I'm guaranteed to be dead. Even if I hit them 100 times and they hit me once, they will resist a ton of it and shrug off the rest of it with their massive health.

There is a big difference. We aren't talking about level 126 period, we are talking about the amount of characters there are with maxed out stats far beyond even anything they use in a fight because of their massive amounts of xp that no one will ever achieve again.

You want to give people something to fight over and a reason to stop macroing, make real hunting worth it. If you don't want people to be rewarded for not playing, then manually hunting has to make MORE xp, no matter how much it is, because people have always been making more with macros as it is.

[Aesthetic]

Making xp isnt hard these days. Making billions of xp a month is hard.

I say they should penalize those players because they obviously are going to mess up the balance of player base, esp on DT.

[Virindi Clown]

You penalize them by greatly rewarding the people willing to do the work.

[Pop4Roc]

WTF DO YOU THINK THEY ARE GOING TO DO LET THE LOWER LEVELS FIGHT EACH OTHER?


LOL!! Turbine hates DT, nuff said.

[Jojji]

This was never stated by a member of the Dev Team, the quote that I believe you're referring to was made by someone at Microsoft.

MS controlled AC at that time. Based on your reasoning, UMC'ing shouldn't even be a violation of the COC considering it was MS who changed the rules.

The reasons that you stated for UCM being disallowed are not the only ones. I was not on the team when the decision to disallow them was made, so I can't speak to why the original reasoning, but right now I'd say the primary factor at this point in the game is this:

You shouldn't be rewarded for playing the game if you're not actually playing the game.

(Outside of the allegiance system, of course.)

However, you've now changed that allegiance system. Once more 4 years to late. On a new server I would support this change. On DT its a matter of closing the barn door after the horse is already out.

Naturally it would be possible to extend this reasoning to such things as buffbots, portalbots, and tradebots, but these types of scripts do not cause the same outcry as combat macros. So a compromise has been reached.

No a compromise was not reached. A fiscal decision was made based on the number of players how would either not return or have quit. Nothing more, nothing less.

While I understand that defending macros and macro locations is a game in and of itself on Darktide, we would prefer to give you other things to fight over rather than allowing UCMing for this purpose.

This is the biggie. You have already been told repeatedly (I'd like to point out that almost every person who has replied to this thread stands on oppisite sides of each other on DT) that you and the rest of the dev team is completely out of touch when it comes to PVP and specificly DT. Yet now you know exactly what it's going to take to give us things to fight over?

Is this like your concerns over things being "meleecentric" on DT and needing to make weeping weapons nerfable? With intent to balance things out in the future? How's that going for you? It's been a few months...strange I've not seen anything done to correct that issue, yet!

This is the biggest problem and the reason most of DT is cynical. We've been feed lines of BS for 4 years. The earliest we have ever had an issue resolved or even a bandaid applied has been 6 months.

Now, I'm one who doesn't like to just complain and not offer solutions. The best solution, is simple. Each char can earn a total of 4.2 Billion. After that, nothing. If your system will not allow it...great then change it so they can only spend 4.2 Billion but continue to keep earning XP. This removes the have/have nots. Allows sub 126 level chars to compete and if you want to make things interesting in PvP...this is it. No one will have the ability to be god like...everyone is back to being able to be killed.

Things to fight for...simple, remove barriers. Place Lifestone back in towns.

The finial biggest issue...fix the friggen lag already. I personally could careless what it takes or what the issue is. Fix it. You need more money to do so, fine you've already jacked my months price up by a health percentage and given me nothing in return...bump it up agian and upgrade the servers and bandwidth. Atleast with that second price increase I'd be getting something.

I'd also like to thank you for taking the time to debate this with me. If you had been doing this 2 years ago...I'd have stood behind you 100%. I did so with out your support (Banned macros in our guild until we no longer had a choice). At this point, the pooch has already been screwed...

Paul

[Aesthetic]

^^^ I totally agree.

[Virindi Clown]

People would be completely outraged if it capped at 126.

Plain and simple, manual hunting just needs to outdo macroing.

If you could actually see a difference for your IG time spent killing things at very high levels, it would be entertaining and it would balance out VERY quickly. On top of that, people would raid eachother's hunting areas and it would turn into the real DT again in no time at all.

We need "territories" we can all get to easily so we can use them and attack them just the same. Probably 3 places like caul and VoD would do it (more xp though), assuming they had a recallable drop place (preferably with a decent town, like on bobo), were restricted areas (basicall large islands), and had a few certain locations that had different types of spawns so that people would meet up in some spots (to hunt or attack the people hunting), but couldn't have really safe macros.

They could follow the ML idea where you take portals to higher level areas so there is something for everyone.

The goal should not be for one group to take the few good things there are. There should be enough great things for everyone, but not too many so that people don't get spread out. Then everyone can manually hunt their chars and have fun while they actually improve their character, and everyone can know where there enemies will be to try and hurt them.

[Jojji]

People would be completely outraged if it capped at 126

No the people who have exploited a broken system and macroed non stop, would be outraged. Those who truely were interested in a balanced PvP enviorment would not.

Of course the mantra of AC has always been..."Exploit early, exploit often".

By making manual hunting worth more than XP, I'm guessing you are taking into count the fact that most of the higher level chains have been pushing 400+ Million XP per day. Considering most are playing maybe 3 hours max...youre talking about places that would be pushing 50+ Million per hour.

All that is, is another broken system and catering to the lowest common denominator. Anyone remember what happened with AC 2 and their broken XP system during the first few months? Level 45-48 within weeks of the server opening...I'd prefer not to follow down the footsteps of something that we already know isn't going to work.

New Chain system + Mega XP spots = Exploited level 126's in days...but agian only by those who are willing to exploit the system.

BTW, thought I should toss in...I have 5 chars over level 160. I'm not going to be hurt by the changes one bit. However there are alot of people looking to come back, that will not be able to compete nor will new "blood" be attracted.

[ACVeteran]

Naturally it would be possible to extend this reasoning to such things as buffbots, portalbots, and tradebots, but these types of scripts do not cause the same outcry as combat macros. So a compromise has been reached.

Exactly what outcry are we talking about - on Darktide? It seems to me that for every 1 darktider who is against UCMs, there are 5 more who are for it. Is there some marketing sensibility to these decisions that I'm missing? As Jojji pointed out, unless the 'fix' to what you perceive as an issue addresses those who've already taken advantage of that issue, that fix will only **** current players off and make it tougher for new ones.

Also, IBN, a couple of months back you stated that the UCM policy on Darktide would be re-evaluated. Since it appears you've already come to a conclusion on the matter, may I ask what steps this re-evaluation entailed? I know I certainly wasn't asked for an opinion.

[Ibn]

Originally posted by Jojji
Yet now you know exactly what it's going to take to give us things to fight over?

Not in the slightest. I know that you want things to fight over, but determining exactly how best to get these things into the game is a whole 'nother issue. We've seen many ideas (such as putting lifestones in towns and pulling the housing barriers, from your own post) and those are certainly good ones that we are discussing internally. For example, we put a lifestone right in the middle of Shoushi and you should expect to see the same thing done to other towns in the future.

[Ifuritah]

For example, we put a lifestone right in the middle of Shoushi and you should expect to see the same thing done to other towns in the future.

Cool.

[CouchAttack]

Putting lifestones into towns won't increase their use, and won't make them valuable.

[Dougie]

I say take down housing barriers for all housing (so no safe zones) and make a new pk server.

THEN I don't mind the enforcement of UCMs and the allegiance xp change. Yes there will be those who are lvl 126+ within a few months of the new server but these will be people who have just played 24/7 and dedicated their life to AC. These people would be few. This is unlike today where a person merely put on a macro and lvled to 126 within 2 weeks effortlessly.

Yes monster hunting sucks but if everyone was on the same playing field and levels were determined by how long a person ACTUALLY played, then you won't have to level as much to be competative or have fun with a large portion of the server. Being level 50 would probably be adequate under those circumstances.

[Binky]

Originally posted by Ibn
For example, we put a lifestone right in the middle of Shoushi and you should expect to see the same thing done to other towns in the future.

This is a good idea, but it's only going to work if you remove the 5000 lifestones not in towns...

Also let's quit getting off topic. The topic is the fact we can police our own on DT, it's been said by quite a few TURBINE devs that DT's UCM policy will be reevaluated. After reading this thread and many others, I think it's obvious what the DT population wants, aka, to police our own.

[ACVeteran]

IBN,

Given the feedback you've received from the DT community that is largely in favor of allowing Darktiders to police their own UCMing, could you elaborate as to why, exactly, you choose to offer semi-helpful alternative solutions as opposed to simply allowing it?

[CouchAttack]

Because Turbine has a "Refuse to Help Darktiders In ANY and ALL Circumstances"

[Ifuritah]

Because Turbine has a "Refuse to Help Darktiders In ANY and ALL Circumstances"

Well..they seem willing to try now.. we should at least give them a chance... *throws some water on couch's torch*.

[Jojji]

Actually Ifru, they really do not seem to be trying. If they were instead of making changes then trying to figure out what to do next...they would first figure out what needs to be changed, what is broken, and what would give people a reason to fight.

Once they understand that, then start making changes.

The problem I have is simple. On several occassions Turbine and Ibn specificly has asked for input from DT, reguarding PVP issues. Each time they are given input, it is dismissed and countered with a "Well we dont think so. We have a vision..." Strangely enough after 4+ years we have not seen anything that explains just what that vision is.

Don't agree? Try reading the last few pages of this thread one more time. Even easier, read just my posts and the replies from Ibn. Notice the fact that he completely skirts around any issue brought up.

When he is asked how they came up with the solution they are going with...there is no reply.

This is a case of them having thier minds made up on the issue before they even asked the question. In other words, lip service.

Further example, it's now over 2 months since the nerfing of melees. That nerf came with the promise of addressing the issue via other means. We've yet to see or even hear of this "visionary" solution.

Turbine has a history of screwing the pooch for 4 years. It's their job to overcome that stigma and prove to us they are capable of solving the problem and actually listening to their player base. We have earned the right to be jaded, and they have earned the mistrusted directed at them.

Nerfing XP chains/Removing UMC's was a great idea up till 2 years ago. After that the system was already broken and non recoverable. Well almost, I've suggest a means to unbreak it, however I think they are worried about ******* of those that have exploited the system. Instead they should be worried about making those that have played the game straight and not exploited...happy for once.

[CouchAttack]

I don't have a torch, I have a fricken bonfire, and one cup of water can't douse it.

[ACVeteran]

Would you be so kind as to answer my question, IBN? In private if you must. I'm asking as a paying customer of nearly four years.

[Ifuritah]

I don't have a torch, I have a fricken bonfire, and one cup of water can't douse it.

Ok, ok...just thought I'd say something on thier behalf...

*steps out quietly*

[Sito]

Darktide cannot police UCM's.


Auto logging scripts log out macros as soon as they see a PK on radar. You can not kill them before they log out. They log back in a few minutes later. All that is lost is a few minutes of macro time.

Without logging scripts you could kill the macro and take it out of service untill the person running it comes back and gets it going again. As it stands now there is no point in going after macros becuase you can not effect them other then a minor exp loss do to being out of the game for a few minutes.


As long as people are using an auto log script there is no way you can claim that UCM's can be policed by DT players. Last year my main PvP fighting constisted of raiding the tusker dungeons on AL. I would pass through and take out the live players and macros. If I were to do that today I would run through dungeons devoid of tuskers but filled with tusker corpses in a circle laying arround where the macro was before it logged out.

The best run I had on AL last year I took out just over 20 avatars in those dungeons. Last Saturday I went through those same dungeons and passed 15 spots where macros had logged out. Getting tusks makes sence, going after the macros is pointless.



ACVeteran

"IBN,

Given the feedback you've received from the DT community that is largely in favor of allowing Darktiders to police their own UCMing, could you elaborate as to why, exactly, you choose to offer semi-helpful alternative solutions as opposed to simply allowing it?"

"You shouldn't be rewarded for playing the game if you're not actually playing the game." -Ibn


That is your answer. AC is a game to be played by people, not computers.



UCM's can not be allowed on DT for many reasons, both inside and outside of the game. To expect them to be retained is unrealistic. Here is a little life lesson for you. "Just because you think your right does not mean you are right.". Learn it, live it, love it.

[Ifuritah]

"Just because you think your right does not mean you are right.". Learn it, live it, love it.

I hope you heed your own advice.

[Sito]

Always.

[Ifuritah]

In that case, JUst though I'd point to RIm's suggestion that would fix this issue, a mosnter log off timer - 5 seconds (or so) after attacking the last monster before you'd be allow to log off. This would give ample time to reach/imperil1 what ever macros are nearby.

[Lutieus]

Let's just hope they would fix the bug that makes it so if you're attacked *after* starting a log-off timer/sequence, you don't have the timer next time you log in. Otherwise people would still be able to log out with no repercussions.

[Phat-DT]

theres also auto logging scripts from admins, admin tells, and remote clients that allow people to do anything, even pvp(very bad lag), with remote access to the macroers computer. By your reasoning of dters not bieng able to patrol macros, admins cant patrol the best macro crews either.

[Ifuritah]

Logging from an admin tell results in a ban if they are UCM enforcing.

[Virindi Clown]

First of all, if a macro logs from you, it is immediately out of your way.

If it comes back in, then you know where it will be. If you poke the freaking thing with your bare fist once it is stuck for 30 seconds. You don't have to try and catch it with a spell. It's not really that hard.

And besides, if they keep logging out, they are STILL not ruining your playing experience while you hunt.

Just logging one off over and over would be policing it, because it will NEVER make xp as long as you are there, and anyone can
manage killing one if they want to.

And why would capping the xp at level 126 only make macroers mad? I have a level 164 melee I NEVER macroed, and he does not have a bunch of macroers under him. He makes 20 mil a day from a chain. That doesn't sound like 400+ mil a day to me (which ONLY Blood can manage).

So it's not possible some people have just had lots of people under them for a long time? How long have there been 126s in the game? Lots of level 180s exist that weren't macroed or had chained macroers under them, but just had lots of people leveling under them for a very long time.

The issue is that NEW characters somehow just blaze PAST that range in no time. A level 126 really is not even hard to make just by hunting good, and people macroing to 126 are not hurting the game. The people macroing to level 200+ in a very short time are.

The problem is that you must "cheat" as it is to keep up with the rapidly increasing amount of completely maxed out characters (as in maxing any useful skills for fighting people), not to reach 126.

People have taken it to such a ridiculous level that the only way you can make the amount of xp necessary to keep up is to stack masses of xp repeatedly for every character in a chain so that TONS of people make the level at once.

The new system makes it EASIER to just plain hunt and hit 126, but HARDER to compare to the now large number of virtually unbeatable macro chained characters.

Skill only goes so far when people have made literally hundreds of times the xp on their macroed chars than those that have tried to play fair by hunting manually.

[Ayatollah]

Originally posted by Ibn

While I understand that defending macros and macro locations is a game in and of itself on Darktide, we would prefer to give you other things to fight over rather than allowing UCMing for this purpose.


How about you do that? What do you propose we fight for, flags?


Originally posted by Ifuritah

Well..they seem willing to try now.. we should at least give them a chance... *throws some water on couch's torch*.


Only thing they are trying is to kill DT with these new allegiance changes. I think its an outrage


Originally posted by Ibn

Not in the slightest. I know that you want things to fight over, but determining exactly how best to get these things into the game is a whole 'nother issue. We've seen many ideas (such as putting lifestones in towns and pulling the housing barriers, from your own post) and those are certainly good ones that we are discussing internally. For example, we put a lifestone right in the middle of Shoushi and you should expect to see the same thing done to other towns in the future.


Then get rid of the other 5000000000 lifestones that are out of towns. If you will not get rid of other lifestones outside of towns, then you are wasting your time making town lifestones.

[Nub]

I have to protest the delay in being able to log out. As it is now, you won't let me recall or use portals (which I think is stupid, particulary when I haven't even done anything to attack back)...Without being able to log out, I have NO way to escape PKs.

[Virindi Clown]

Yeah, what good does MORE lifestones do? All the vendors in out of the way places with portals and lifestones are the problem. They all need to go bye-bye or you can never solve this.

I don't entirely agree with the master mage thing or random collectors, either. I think all towns need to have the same stuff in them if its a common thing everyone uses.

There should atleast be a few key towns that have pretty much the best of everything in them, so that the vast majority of people congregate to one or the other.

A good way to go about this would be to make AB, Ft. Teth, and Candeth Keep all have everything and portals to eachother, so that people could control them and raid eachother easily.

[Lutieus]

Master mages are a subtle way to reward people who either take the time to travel or are more familiar with the portal system. In my main town, I see people shopping at its 90% buy/150% sell archmage all the time, when one of the town's settlement portals drops three kliks south of a master mage. Another town has a settlement portal that lands the same distance (different direction) from the same archmage, yet the majority of people still use its overpriced archmage as well. If people don't take the time to figure out better ways to travel, they shouldn't benefit from them.

[Virindi Clown]

It's not so bad, but it hurts towns just the same. There are plenty of vendors with a portal or ls in out of the way places that will buy everything buy magic items, or maybe jewelery, then you can go to a master mage, sell your magic items, and get the best comp rate in the game.

The whole idea of it all put together has slowly killed towns. What was originally the point of them has been moved elsewhere, or just removed entirely. Possibly a good way to go about master mages would be to let you buy the gem to get to them from NPCs in towns?

[CouchAttack]

agreed bring life back into towns

[StabA]

Originally posted by Ibn
This was never stated by a member of the Dev Team, the quote that I believe you're referring to was made by someone at Microsoft.



It was made by the Ken Karl guy, i dont know who he worked for, but i thought he was in charge at the time.

[Ayatollah]

Darktide cannot police UCM's.



When an o.0 tries to talk for DT.......





































......... ROFL!

[Sito]

Sorry, when I play it is full time DT.


Adding a logout timer after attacking a mob would be a good partial fix. You can't allways have admins available to ban macros but a logout timer would allow the DT player base to take care of macros that are still hanging arround in game. As it stands now the only way to diable a macro is to set up a mule next to it autologging in and out every few minutes. Gotta love DT, the sever is becomming a sever of, "My macro can beat your Macro!!!". So much for PvP.

[slaven]

VirvinDi Clown you are Wrong FOr years it has Been a Violation of COC to RUn UCM's it just was Enforced Porely Turbine has cracked down on this I personnaly think it's because of their New xp system. Have you even looke dat it? macros have an advantage over people who only play a little bit of time as They are logged on Much longer (Ingame time is a small factor but still a factor none the less) Also Ifuritah (DT) you must not be on dt to much or your in blood. 200's don't brag about dieng to 100's much do they? well 100's brag Plenty about killing200+'s :) maybe you should watch /a /irc /g more often and see all the people bragging about killing people almost double their lvl it's quite funny how often it really happens.

It's not a question of if they can patrol the best macros Phat-DT It's a question of it they DO.. They don't you would hear about it on almost every board.. THey don't openly go out looking for macros Last time i checked it usually goes on a report (all you who got banned were Reported By someone In other words).

and someone said That we Police are Own server for Macros So not True. Everyone attempts to police the server for macros But theirs a problem it's called built in logoff 99% Of macros Log off when a Hostile or wary Character gets on their Program that detects Far beyond the reaches of radar. Just making a macro Log is Useless It means the person misses out on 4-6 hours of xp sometimes less. It does no good as the person who Made the macro log is usually gone by the time the person setups to macro again. The worst part is he is already in dungeon at the spot he was macroing for xxxxxxxxx xp a hr.

They should leave it to us But if they do they should Block auto log off programs Let smkae it interesting if your going to macro u chance losing everything on u :)

[Spoiled]

From what ive read in this post turbine seems to be skating around selectively enforcing the rules and not providing a true reason as to why... They argue that the reason given to enforce these rules is because they were put in place, then turn around and argue that they were put in place by microsoft so they arent going to enforce the other half of them... Am i missing something?

[Virindi Clown]

Uh Slaven, no. For quite a while macros were allowed. Why would they have suddenly become a bannable offense midway through the game's life if they had not already existed?

It was already too late when they SAID you would get banned for it. They still have yet to really ban people.

They jump around and boot people here and there. They have NEVER "cracked down."

It is unfair to the people who do not macro and must fight tons of level 180+ chars. It is unfair to those who are banned while hundreds of others get away with it. It is unfair even to those who do macro, because practically 99% of the time they are doing it to try and keep up with the few who did it before them that possess a huge advantage.

[Nya13]

Don't be foolish!!!


Not everybody can Macro on DT
UCM'ing should be banned on DT like on Carebears Servers
While a player is leveling hardly (Play time) there is a UCM'er who is leveling 24/24H.

[Nya13]

If Admins will do correctly their jobs to check UCM'ers :
They should target all the biggest XP/Dungeons FIRST
And about i hear they did not on DT (guild vs guild acts?)

[Nya13]

Originally posted by Virindi Clown
It is unfair to the people who do not macro and must fight tons of level 180+ chars. It is unfair to those who are banned while hundreds of others get away with it. It is unfair even to those who do macro, because practically 99% of the time they are doing it to try and keep up with the few who did it before them that possess a huge advantage.

IF admins do correctly their jobs
no one will macro anymore because they will be scared to be banned or they are crazy/stupids.

[Nya13]

Just a question :

Lot people on DT use UCM'er auto log on/off
Does it log off on Admins?

[TheWraiths]

The facts our everyone who actually matters on darktide supports UCM. Its what we have left to fight for, and unless you introduce MAJOR (read: HUGE) changes, no one on DT is gonna care about anythign but XP and killing other people.

The only thing worth fighting over is xp. Now you could introduce some uber wep or something like that, but there wouldnt be able to be a patrol to police the area enough for that to be worth defending eventually everyone would have it.

Also the only people that DON'T support UCM or whine about the macros logging off, are the people in guilds too small to actually dent the macroers.

If these people cant kill an unattended macroer hunting in their spot, what makes you think your gonna kill someone whos actively hunting there?

Let us macro, it does no one any harm as they can log us or kill us, and if they can't, well they couldnt hurt me much anyway even if I was attended.

[Nya13]

Originally posted by TheWraiths
The facts our everyone who actually matters on darktide supports UCM. Its what we have left to fight for, and unless you introduce MAJOR (read: HUGE) changes, no one on DT is gonna care about anythign but XP and killing other people.

The only thing worth fighting over is xp. Now you could introduce some uber wep or something like that, but there wouldnt be able to be a patrol to police the area enough for that to be worth defending eventually everyone would have it.

Also the only people that DON'T support UCM or whine about the macros logging off, are the people in guilds too small to actually dent the macroers.

If these people cant kill an unattended macroer hunting in their spot, what makes you think your gonna kill someone whos actively hunting there?

Let us macro, it does no one any harm as they can log us or kill us, and if they can't, well they couldnt hurt me much anyway even if I was attended.

L O L omg

[Dragonsrage_HG]

I was going to post this on the other form binky stated because it had turned into the same discution so I will just post it here.

Originally posted by Rojon
Because cheating is cheating, regardless what color your dot is.

Seriously, do the DT'ers that whine about this think its going to change if they just keep repeating their same baseless arguments?

I understand calling it cheating now that it is against the CoC. How ever back in the day it wasn't "cheating". The reason I stated they should change the CoC to not include DT is because DT is diffrent then the rest of the comunity.

On the white servers there is little the player can do to exsept report it. On DT however it is a totaly diffrent story. On DT if a guy sets up his UCM and goes to bed, 5 min later some one else could come along and kill him sending him back to the LS efectivly stoping UCMing.

I have not been to the MP yet on DT but I have a feeling there are not many trade bots in the MP. With DT UCMing could be something of a Role Play thing. Set up a UCM in the dungy and have your guild defend it at all times. If people are not in the dungy defending it then the UCM gets killed. I know on the white servers people used to try and draw monsters and get the UCMer killed. On DT all they have to do is kill the UCM themselfs.

With the XP passup changes this would be a really good insentive on DT for the guilds. Everyone is complaining about there is no social aspect in the game anymore and everyone is bring up things to make more resons to socalize. This would be a good thing for the DT people.

This idea would not work on any white server because we can not efectivly control areas forcing people out of where we dont want them to be.

DT is an entirly diffrent world then the other servers. If they have a grifer that is anoying them or saying stuff they should not be then they can send that person to the LS. The DT people are their own police and can actuly control what people do ingame.

I remember back in the day when I was hunting ayan BSD and someone kept coming up and killing every tusker I tryed to kill. If I where on DT I could have just made a call to my guild and we could have come in and taken care of the problem.

That is the Life of a DT player. As much as I hear the White and red server people flame each other it all boils down to DT is a diffrent world and practicly a diffrent game. Unless you have played there or play there now you just dont understand how diffrent it is. Also for thouse that may say I played there X months/years ago. Just remember this, everyday something changes the way the white servers play the game and the same goes for the red server.

Have fun,
Dragonsrage
126 sword on Harvestgain

P.S. I am a white server player at heart but I totaly understand what the DT people are saying.

[Ayatollah]

Originally posted by Nya13
Just a question :

Lot people on DT use UCM'er auto log on/off
Does it log off on Admins?


With Lifetank yeah, it has admin log on it.

White worlds = the macros arent pk unless you see a retarded one who went ucm pk.

DT = macroers are pk so you can log them off or kill them. Its hard to macro 24/7 unless you have the dungeon protected pretty well.


Admins need to stay on white worlds because you report on white worlds, cant really kill the macroers like on DT kthx.

[WarriorWraith]

For what its worth, I hope that someone at Turbine is reading this thread and will quickly jump on the 20+ UCM's in the Lange Monarchy that are at the Level 100 area of the Olthoi Chasm using the unattended combat macroing. That would remove 100+ characters from the DT server ! LoL ! I can't wait to see them gone.;)

[Nya13]

Originally posted by Dragonsrage_HG


P.S. I am a white server player at heart but I totaly understand what the DT people are saying.

Dude i am a DT player for long
And i never been agree with UCM'ing
Like Gear ... this thing killi the game

Why? Imagine

Because It's the easy way for UCM'ers to get XP quickly while they are not playing the game (ex: at work)

Then they UCM'ing (using auto log on/off from pks = Killing UCM'ers is boring/ We don't play AC to kill a macros)

and when they come back at home to play they don't need to waste their time to Xp/Hunt. They can RAID/PVP all night.

While a true players (Yea NOT everybody can UCm'ing in that game) when they are online They have to work hard in game to get their XP/level and and defending constlantly agst the UCM'ers (who already got XP/Level all the days by UCM'ing and now can raid people non-UCMers)

Do you see the unbalancing thing?
No coz ur such a cheater that can see only their advantages in game and want to keep it! doesnt matter if it's a cheats or not.

[Nya13]

I REPEAT

We don't play AC to kill a macros!!!
Wasting my time in game to kill UCMer is stupid
We don't play on DT for that

What a UCM'er on DT?
A Character wearing non-drop stuffs.
Doesnt matter if they got killed! They will UCM'ing all days and still getting XP/Level = Breaking balance of XP/Players
and Xp is very important on AC = Levels

I prefer doing Quest/ PvM than killing UCM'ers. Really

[Nya13]

BUT if Turbines will make

1) All stuffs on AC are dropable
2) and increase the timer to log off in game (only way to fix the UCM'ers using auto log on/off from PKs)

Then Killing UCmers could be fun Coz coz they could lose all their Stuffs

[Dragonsrage_HG]

Originally posted by Nya13
Dude i am a DT player for long
Do you see the unbalancing thing?
No coz ur such a cheater that can see only their advantages in game and want to keep it! doesnt matter if it's a cheats or not.

Ok I would like to state here that I have never UCMed nor have I been in a fellow with a UCM nor have I have used a XP Chain.

I am in a guild that does not alow that stuff. So every point of exp I have gotten was from either my own hunting or my somewhat active vassal hunting.

Being on the white servers I never did like the UCMs or XP Chains because it gave people an advantiage and I did not want to have to resort to doing thouse things. Every time I whent to a dungon that I wanted to hut I had to compeat with the kill steeling UCMs.

When I was talking about DT and being your own Police I understood that turbine would have to fix a couple things for yall. I was hoping the rest of the player base would have relized that too. I guess everything has to be drawn into a picture for people to understand.

As for non drop items becoming drop I dont know about that. As far as a log off timer goes. Turbine could easaly set it for insted of being in combat with another play to being in combat/spellcasting mode.

Dragonsrage

[Ayatollah]

Nya why do you keep saying the same thing over and effing over??? Goddamn, shut up about that "make everything droppable" BS. Not all macros wear gsa. Some of them wear tinkered armor and use good weapons because they feel protected or are safe when they die.


Making everything droppable isnt going to solve anything. Just going to make alot of people quit because you lose DIs everyday if you get into big fights all the time. Guess you want most of the DT pop to quit huh?

[Nya13]

Originally posted by Ayatollah
Making everything droppable isnt going to solve anything. Just going to make alot of people quit because you lose DIs everyday if you get into big fights all the time. Guess you want most of the DT pop to quit huh?

I didnt thought DT is populated by 90% of carebears now
Well making all dropable stuffs in game will grief them so much then...

Killing somone wearing a all non-dropable stuffs
and loot some stupids pyreals scarabs in his corps is pretty anoying. He will come back quickly (buffs 3 minutes + 5% vitea = 30 sec) and doesnt care if he die again...

(making all stuffs dropable from the quest but this stuffs should not have a big value/ not too expensive)

[Nya13]

Really Ayatollah

I think you are playing on the wrong server
Try PKLite on the others servers

[Ayatollah]

You probably dont even play DT. You probably play pkl on FF, trying to sound cool. I have never heard any DTer in the last 4 years I have been playing DT, make the idea that everything should be droppable. Take that "you must be a carebear because you dont agree with me" BS talk and shove it up your @$$.


You think GSA/GSC and weeping weapons spawn in loot gen corpses dont you? LOL. What happens if you drop your armor to someone? What are you going to do? Cry and say "I wish I never made this idea wahhhhhhh waaaaahhhhh!!"



I doubt they will make everything on DT nondrop because 1 person says so. You will need more people asking for it, 1 person like you isnt going to get their way even if they keep whining about it. Find another idea because your idea sucks bizzalls.

[Nya13]

Originally posted by Ayatollah
You probably dont even play DT. You probably play pkl on FF, trying to sound cool. I have never heard any DTer in the last 4 years I have been playing DT, make the idea that everything should be droppable. Take that "you must be a carebear because you dont agree with me" BS talk and shove it up your @$$.


You think GSA/GSC and weeping weapons spawn in loot gen corpses dont you? LOL. What happens if you drop your armor to someone? What are you going to do? Cry and say "I wish I never made this idea wahhhhhhh waaaaahhhhh!!"



I doubt they will make everything on DT nondrop because 1 person says so. You will need more people asking for it, 1 person like you isnt going to get their way even if they keep whining about it. Find another idea because your idea sucks bizzalls.

lol You are strengthening my point of view

[Rim]

Nya13,
Or maybe a level limit on some of the no drop stuff. As an example, Shadow armor really isn't something that level 100+ people should be wearing.

People should be playing the game enough to have easily tinkered up something for more viable than Shadow armor by level 100+

And yes, when I kill someone I do like getting something more than payreal scarabs and healing kits 8)

[Ayatollah]

Originally posted by Nya13
lol You are strengthening my point of view


You never had a point of view in the first place. So you are not saying much now are you? :)


gb2ff o.0

[Virindi Clown]

People who flame are cool and intelligent.

[ArthurFonzarell]

Usually I worry about myself when I agree with Jojji, but he is dead on with his posts here.

You have already been told repeatedly (I'd like to point out that almost every person who has replied to this thread stands on oppisite sides of each other on DT) that you and the rest of the dev team is completely out of touch when it comes to PVP and specificly DT.

This just makes me want to meet him IRL and buy him a beer.

[Rim]

Jojji,
The main issue I see in maxing characters at 4.2 billion xp is that the game is no longer balanced for 4.2 billion xp characters.

I agree with the concept but we would need to take a look at the whole game balance all over again.

Another option might be to decrease the xp curve for all but the last 10 bumps of a skill/attribute to around 1 billion total xp and increase the curve for the last 10 bumps of a skill/attribute to around 3.2 billion xp. You could keep the total xp per skill/attribute at 4.2 billion xp and you leave the game balance alone (other than what needs to already be fixed).

Changing the xp curves would have the advantage of rewarding those who have simply played the game, while not penalizing people for doing what they had to do in order to survive (UCM).

Changing the curve would also give some meaning to continuing to develop your character post level 126, but at the same time, leveling post 126 could never give you an advantage to the extent that is seen in game right now.

[Jojji]

Actually, you might be suprised at what a char with 4.2M XP can do. I've yet to find anyplace that I cannt hunt with a mage who has 4.2M XP.

A Melee with 4.2M XP is going to have a tough time landing on some folk (Grief templates) but adjusting the melees template will fix that.

A mage wouldnt be able to go full grief + High Missle D + Max HP + High run. Means everyone would have to pick what they want to be good at and go from there.

Obviously Melee chars would have the toughest time...As it is until a melee hits 165+ He's pretty much stuck in a support role.

The other side of the coin, I hear folks talk about how little difference there is between a level 140'ish char and a level 200. That may be true for a mage. However, for a melee level 140 to 160'ish is huge and from 160 to 200 is even bigger...

It's the difference between 300 HP, almost no resist, unmaxed Str, Unmaxed Sword, low life skill, barely casting VII's and 400'ish Melee D...vs Maxed melee D, Maxed Life, Maxed HP, Maxed Str/Sword and being able to fight uneven odds at will.

Think about the damage you have been taking (Rim) now vs 2 months ago. You never even had to worry about melees...can you say that now?

You want things "interesting"? Want to kill UMC's? Want to allow new players a chance to compete? Maxing chars at 4.2M will do just that.

Paul

[Rim]

Capping xp at 4.2 billion brings up a lot of unknows at this point.

1. How hard will a sword character with 260 base strength hit considering that mages health will probably drop to around 280, that could be a real issue.

2. How hard will wars hit through the ageus shield against melees with low magic D and around 250ish health ?

3. Melees will stick a little better because mages will have about a 350ish run, which means slowness spells will actually do a little more.

4. Weakness will hurt mages in a big way (may be a good thing)

5. Most melees wont be able to cast their own level 7 buffs.

There are basically endless considerations to take into account because the gamehas been rebalanced for higher level content.

However, the biggest issue is that if a 4.2 billion xp cap greatly unbalances the game, do you think that Turbine can/will respond fast to the problems that are created ?

Even with loather on weapings, we're the closest we've even been to a balanced game. Sure there are some issues like lag, jump spin/elixir and uncontrolable UCMing but we're far closer now than we were two years ago, and we're probably way closer now than we would be with a 4.2 billion cap.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like nothing more than for non-macro'd characters to be able to compete in this game but changing the skill/attribute curve is a far safer approach, and probably far more likely to happen IMO.

[Jojji]

Your missing the point that DT becomes a dead server otherwise. No one will be able to manually level a char to 140+, it just will not happen.

My question to your above post...if a char isn't able to be viable at level 126 with todays rebalance then I'd suggest things are very out of balanced...wouldn't you agree?

As for loathered weapons being balanced. I've been saving damage logs for the next mage who screams about sword being overpowered. You know its strange, with maxed out stat/skill I've yet to hit anyone for more than 30 on low setting, average more than 45 on full power swings...see these massive 110+ point crits on low power, 170+ Point crits on someone with fully tinkered armor, double banes.....

Turbine has some good ideas. The problem is, they are going half way with most of them. Are three years to late with others and unable to fix the exploits that break all of their balancing work.

[Lutieus]

A true cap at level 126 would have been great...a couple years ago. As it is, too many people are stuck in the "Don't PvP until level 140" mode (which I hate), so that the whining they'd start would mean adding a cap would require either a new server or more guts on Turbine's part than the Evil Dead series.

Balance at 126 actually works more in the mage's favor. At that level, since health is a bigger concern, meleers aren't as able to sustain multiple war spells at at time. So it becomes more of a hit-and-run fight than the arc-eating contest higher levels seem to favor. The biggest reduction in damage is in UA, since its two damage bonuses make a greater difference than other skills' single bonuses. Decreased health makes that more manageable, though. Other than that, PvP among like levels in that range isn't affected too much.

[Virindi Clown]

And the main issue I see is that Turbine seems to deny the fact that there are leve 180+ chars popping up all over.

Turbine doesn't actually add content for the mass of insanely high level characters now infesting the game. They just balance around them with the now all-too-common "band aid fixes". Then they go and act like they don't exist and just play this same game with us over and over.

I am tired of it.

I was OK with a lot of people being like 150, but when literally half the people I run into have anything related to their attack, defense, and health maxed out, it is completely out of control.

A long time ago higher character experience meant something in a fight. Now it either doesn't matter, or people become literally unkillable. It's just stupid.

It's freaking DT. People should be going out and fighting and dropping dead all over, not hiding and macroing level 5 billion characters and showing off how they can stand in front of repeated war spells and not die .

[Goddess_DT]

I couldn't agree more, there is no use for DT to have the same COC as the white servers. Everything is diffrent, everything, hopefully ya'll will realize that soon.

[Dead's Mage]

Hehe, thats because 90% on DT are people whould UCM on White servers.. the more hardcore people :) (i have nothing wrong with it, i just never did it 56k 4 teh win)

[WarriorWraith]

Folks, for what its worth, there was a reason to have a CoC in the first place. That reason for the CoC in the first place was to make a level playing field for both Non-RPK's and RPK's alike.

Whether you agree with it or not, its there to ensure that everyone enjoys the game. Why else do you think or believe that Turbine went so hard after Gear users ? It was because those who use GEAR found a way to exploit the game and basically cheat.

UCM'ing is just as much a CHEAT as using GEAR. Whether its used on DT or FF, LC, WE, HG, or SC is irrelevant. It is still cheating. It has nothing to do with play styles or any of that nonsense. It has everything to do with finding a quicker way to level in game so that one may assume they are a top dog.

To be totally honest, I have had more fun without it and without using xp chains. The enjoyment I get from the game is playing and leveling on my own at the keyboard because I have accomplished something. Automation is an empty victory indeed.

If I had the opportunity to eject those who have gained their high level status from UCM'ing or using Gear, I would in a heartbeat. Cheaters are never winners and should be shown the door at the earliest opportunity, and I might add they should be permenantly banned from the game on all servers.

Now I know your 1st reaction is to think I'm a hard core fanatic, but understand that when one person cheats, they cause a major problem for others who don't.

Bottom line : Turbine's CoC for AC is the Electronic Constitution for this particular game. If you want it changed, you have to post on this BBS with more than just a few in support of it. Turbine is willing to listen to the player base, but you must justify the position and with a lot of support for the change to take place.

Good luck to all of you. No Flames please, lets keep it civil.
:D

[Shon_Tsu]

Errm, there are no Non-PKs on DT... Or are you trying to suggest that UCM'ing benefits Random PKers over Antis RPKers?

To be totally honest, I have had more fun without it and without using xp chains. The enjoyment I get from the game is playing and leveling on my own at the keyboard because I have accomplished something. Automation is an empty victory indeed.

OK, so because you enjoy levelling everybody else should do it? I think its safe the say that the majority of people on DT are there for PvP. Not to hunt. If I log in for 1 hour per night, I want to spend 10 minutes buffing and 50 minutes PvPing. Not 50 minutes hunting creatures. Not to mention that 50 minutes of hunting creatures per day will get me max magic d in 2006 some time.

Looked at from a fairness angle, UCMing levels the playing field between those who can spend 10 hours per day playing, and those who can only spend an hour or so. With UCMs we all have a chance to compete, not just those without a life who can put a heck of a lot more time into a game than most of us want. Especially since most of us consider the levelling part of AC DT to be work and the PvP part to be the fun. When I game I want fun, not work.

[WarriorWraith]

Too bad you can't read ENGLISH ! What I said was plain enough without your feeble attempts to embelish it beyond its own meaning.

UCM's should be totally banned, not just from the CareBear Servers, but from DT as well. And any char that UCM'd their way to whatever level they are, should pay a penalty for it. Like it or not, the TRUTH is never very pretty.

And, to your dismay, there are many NPK's on DT, as well as many RPK's. They not only hunt monsters and do quests, but they do hunt RPK's.

FJ

[Shon_Tsu]

Oh my, did you flame me after asking that no-one flame you?

NPKs on DT? Dude, NPKs are white. They stay that way. Not just for a minute or two to burn vitae, but all the time. You would perhaps be talking about antis? Let me guess, you started on the server in the last month or so but now you're an expert?

Its quite simple, the way the game is now you need levels to compete. Without UCMs those levels are just hard work, and not what the majority of DT play for. Why on earth would anyone want to play a game thats hard work? You may get a sense of achievement out of reaching a certain level, I sure as heck dont. I got a sense of achievement out of my first pk kill. Another one when I killed my first 126. Another one when I won my first 2v1. Etc, etc. I play to PvP, not to lvl.

Banning UCMs on DT does two things. Gives those who UCMd earliest an advantage, and combined with the chain nerf means those who can only play short periods per day can never compete.

[Shon_Tsu]

As to Jojji and Rims conversation about limiting xp to lvl 126, as a full time melee I'd have no problem going back to those days. A lot of the reasons why melees need the levels now, would be countered by the fact everyone has their xp limited. Max magic d wouldn't be an issue for vulning. High melee d wouldn't be an issue as people would spend their xp on offensive skills. No need for super high run to catch people. War damage with weaping wand might be an issue, but hopefully with lower war magic skills the mages wouldn't hit as hard anyway.