Land raid system gone. *sigh*

[Jape]

No Elder Game Land Control
Due to the lukewarm reaction to the land control aspect initially announced, it was shelved.

It will be developed after the expansion pack as a downloaded 'booster' that will be automatically given to everyone with the expansion pack. Slated to be done Fall 2005.

So... Only thing that i was looking forward to is now gone from the expansion.

I guess whiners won (again).

Expansion pack:
-Prettier graphics. (gameplay is what matters, not gfx -> so dont care)
-bigger level treadmill (o.O)
-Rare drops (AC goes farming, yawn)
-augmentation gems (daoc artifacts -> horrible idea if its anything like those)
-new mobs (who gives a damn. New gfx, same mindless behaviour)

Looks like my account will stay inactive until fall 2k5.

/rude whiners
/rude developers.

[SteveJobsDT]

man i was hoping they were going to add something to spark dt up but no? suckage.

[Gustaive]

Yeah, I was disappointed to see this delayed. The people cried about it. Turbine removed it and now they're still crying about the next thing on their list.

I have to side with the PKs and the DTers on this one. I have to say BOOOOO on this one for my fellow carebears who have slammed the Expansion Pack. I sure hope Turbine doesn't scramble to back track and take out the new level cap and what not.

[Sprawl]

But don't you realize it is a different set of whiners? For instance, this level treadmill you speak of and previous "nerfing" of xp chains is completely two different schools of "whiners". Whoever has the dominate view is going to be considered a whiner, why not present good ideas in place of knocking down public opinion?

Sprawl

[Jape]

Seems that average AC player just wants to whack mindless monsters and gain XP as fast as possible.

When something interesting is introduced/suggested (land raid system), it is instantly shot down by these PvM whores.

It would have been good chance to make AC1 interesting again and gain new customers (or atleast get some of the old playerbase back), but it seems that players and devs want to keep this game as simple whack-a-mole game as possible.

[wildcat1971]

PVP doesd not = more customers, PVP = Stupid

[Sizlunt DT]

As Wildcat just displayed more adeptly than I could ever do in a million years of trying, stupidity is most definitely not confined to the PvP playerbase.

I too am saddened that the land control is not going to be introduced, it was the single most interesting thing I had heard about the new expansion. A new mechanic such as this would have been a healthy improvement to AC. I am actually quite surprised that this was not introduced, I think that it would have made the game more marketable than it already is.

[Spk]

That was the only thing I was looking forward to... Congrats Turbine, you've made yet another mistake. Damn seriously what's your problem?? Oh yeah right, we get to "play with a new race" that's certainly human and will most likely not change a single thing to the game, and we get new pretty textures that will just look the same but take twice as much memory... That's so cool.

I'm seriously loosing faith here.

[Silifi Of Death]

Originally posted by wildcat1971
PVP doesd not = more customers, PVP = Stupid

Uhm, yeah, right...

I can't see why PvP is worse than PvM... No one wants to bash monsters all day for no good reason. PvP has purpose, it has challenge, something that PvM will probably never be able to obtain, especially in an MMORPG...

Why would they get rid of land-control? It was the one thing I was looking forward to...

Now what do I get? New rare drops and more idiots who say they are better than me because they UCMed to level 275?

Oh, and a new monster. Woo hoo

And I also get to have to buy 100 dollars worth of RAM and 67 dollars for a graphics card just to be able to play this game. Wooo hoo.

You see, I added an extra "o" to the end of Woo. Isn't that great? But of course, it did not deserve an extra "o" after Hoo.

Staying up for 24 hours straight is bad for your brain.

[Tara Malkav]

Wow, I can't believe that they'd crank up the level req and shelf this. I mean.. we're already being piled on with new monster spawns. We're not running out of places to hunt. The graphics in AC have always been fine and still are. Rare drops.. you mean like half the good items already in-game? :eek: Yet all these must be worked on while a good idea is tossed to the side? I usually have the utmost respect for Turbine, but this is just dumb, in my opinion.

[Sizlunt DT]

Here is what happened:

They posted an ambiguous and vague announcement about the land control and what it was, so vague in fact that it let people invent for themselves what it would actually be like once implemented. People then invented, got pissed because they didn't like what they thought this would be, and they screamed bloody murder over it. Turbine then shelved the idea, based on feedback that was directed towards a percieved idea rather than the actual one.

[Silifi Of Death]

That's it!

We demand the Land control system NOW!

Right before I log in today!

...Well... I suppose in the xpack would be nice as well.

Hell, I'm not gonna pay hundreds of dollars just so I can get a slap in the face.

Give me land control, or I'm, uh... leaving!

Maybe.

Is the graphics update only for the xp-pack? Or is it for the entire game?

Either way, Booo.

I will start a petition... We want land control.

[Mistikal]

Originally posted by Jape
Seems that average AC player just wants to whack mindless monsters and gain XP as fast as possible.

When something interesting is introduced/suggested (land raid system), it is instantly shot down by these PvM whores.

It would have been good chance to make AC1 interesting again and gain new customers (or atleast get some of the old playerbase back), but it seems that players and devs want to keep this game as simple whack-a-mole game as possible.




I consider myself an <average> Ac player I guess. I'll whack mindless monsters all day too.

What you're not wanting to admit is that I would prefer that over any other dynamic the game has atm.

Does that make Ac less interesting for me? Not a chance. I play the game as it's designed, not something I precieve it to be other wise.

Not sure when it's going to sink in, if ever realy. Ac is NOT a pvp based game. It's an fantasy relm and full of lore and adventure. The devs spent endless hours writing the lore to develope the game around and have to impliment content as such.

When they stray from that is when there is problems and people get stale.

*shrug*

I am not so blind to see that pvp is a part of Ac, that's not what I'm saying, not even close.

What I am saying is..

People <chose> to play Ac how they feel it should be played, in that, some chose to pvp, which by game dynamics, is the <lesser> entity in Ac. With that, people will feel that the Devs don't care about them and they don't listen to their player base because of either no content or less to do pvp wise.

That's by design, not something they sit back and decide from day to day.

I wish they had the resourses and staff to commit one team exclusively to pvp. They would be responsible for that end of Ac and make it right.

However, until that happens, there will never be a happy medium for PvP because Ac is not based off Player VS Player.

[Martus]

Sorry to make an own thread about that subject:

http://forums.turbinegames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12513

I still hope they will reconsider the postponing since this was the only really new main feature.

[Fiction_LC]

Yeah but look at it this way they are still putting it in. At least they arnt putting it off for ever and we are getting it some time. I just hope sense they are putting it in that late that they put a lot of time in itwork out lots of the bugs and make it a good system.

[MisatoX]

this game needs something to do at higher levels besides continuing to whack monsters.

Land control was looking like it would be this something, but now they are shelving it. Lame.

[Neros]

Did I miss a poll or discussion about the features to be included in the "land control system"? I was looking forward to this expansion pack feature!

[Zero_Washu]

I don't see this as an issue.

Land Control etc does not fit into Asheron's Call. It does not fit the lore nor is the skill system, experience system, or much of anything else designed for it.

Sure an expansion could try to fix it, however what is the one agreed upon aspect required to make a "control" system to really work? PvP/

That is the problem, the majority of AC players don't PVP. Even PKL has died down a lot (no pun intended).

You should be very glad Turbine didn't try to implement a control system with this upcoming expansion. It was clear from their very vague early ideas that they had NO CLUE as to what they were doing. AC2 is an example of their cluelessness. Now instead of being saddled with a totally crappy system you might get a chance at a half-assed one, provided enough people even stick with AC.

Face it, the macroers pay more that the PKs, hence they get catered to FIRST.

[MisatoX]

Originally posted by Zero_Washu
I don't see this as an issue.



That is the problem, the majority of AC players don't PVP. Even PKL has died down a lot (no pun intended).



The reason for that is that there is no reason to PK/L. Everyone just sits around the LS and duels, which gets very boring. There's nothing to fight for, so a lot of people don't PK/L. This would've given us some incentive and fun things to do while going PK/L.

Not sure how DT is, but it sounds like they want something to fight for too from what I've read :)

[Fiction_LC]

IT should fit into the lore soon though read about the New race they were war like and attack the aluvians then the gahru. So i would think if they enter dereth that they would bring the war here as well thus bringing in the land grabing. If you get what im stating.

[Crog]

Even though I spend all my time in a o.O server, I was anticapating this new feature very much. I could see why the devs have shelved the idea becase, let's face it, most of the player base is on the white servers.

I've come to know many people that don't like any aspect of pk(l), for reasons I can't comprehend because I would rather fight another person rather than a pathetic AI. What I'm trying to say is that it will be hard implementing this idea without affecting those who could really care less about pk(l)-ing, which in turn will disrupt how they like to play the game.

This addition shouldn't be a problem with DT; if that is the only server they add this feature to any time soon, then by all means, I'd be happy to give up HG for DT.

[Paraduck]

Zero, neither did Tinkering or many other things that have been added. So what happens? They can add lore. Big deal. :)

Keep in mind that land control is just delayed until summer/fall of next year.

[Ant]

Almost all MMORPGs have some sort of land control raid system, DAOC, AO, FFXI, Lineage. It gives people something to do when they get to the higher levels and are tired of leveling. Notum wars completely changed AO for the better and a similar system could do the same for AC.

I'd like to point out that while they nixxed the land control system they don't seem to be doing anything in its place...

[sublimaze]

I REALLY REALLY was interested in the elder game content...

*CRY*

I've waited so long already.

[Zero_Washu]

Sizlunt,

take a chill pill OK!


Perhaps the one reason they withdrew the Control game was because they could not find a non-lame way of doing it without PK.

Honestly I don't see a point in any control game unless you can prevent the other team from winning and that should require PK else you just have x-zillion impervious mules holding down the fort.

Also, macros are a very valid concern. The artificially inflate the requirements of players and such.

[MaddyFF]

Originally posted by Ant
I'd like to point out that while they nixxed the land control system they don't seem to be doing anything in its place...

They didn't nix it, it will be added as a bonus after the expansion pack comes out. If you purchase the expansion pack, you;ll get the land resource control when it was added. To meet the deadline of getting the expansion pack out when desired, somethings had to be dropped or delayed. That is my take of the situation.

For those that talk about the land control in other MMORPG's, those are DIFFERENT games. Things don't work the same in AC as they do in DAoC, AO, etc. That is a basic point people need to remember.

[Yinchi]

Maddy, I think you are right. The "weak reception" was not the real reason. I believe they don't have the time to put it in the expansion pack.... why else would they add it in later on in the year? It may need a lot of work before they can even think about releasing it (if ever).

[Master Chief]

wow land control was actually going to make me turn PK. as of now, pk is just pointless killing. with L/C there would be a POINT to it. so i guess i wont go pk now

[Lutieus]

As Sizlunt pointed out, nobody really knew (or knows) how land control would work, so the "lukewarm reaction" may have been premature. Wonder if Ibn would be willing to provide some preliminary details so players could give more reliable feedback....

[boneyard]

i believe the info is that it wont be in expansion, but isnt canceled either, so perhaps its just coming later.

http://www.berk.com/magesofarwic/expansion/MVC-025S.JPG

[pea]

"Due to the lukewarm reaction to the land control aspect initially announced, it was shelved."

I was about come here and post a LONG rant, but naturally, already knew there'd be one, if not more, threads already describing my feelings.

This was pretty much the ONLY thing I was looking forward to in the expansion. The only thing really 'unique' that I can think of? I mean, new race? We've got 3 already? New island? We have 4 already? New armor type? We've got more than I can count. Higher-res textures? You going to add normal maps and pixel shading too? This isn't doom 3?

Infact, from ACPL the only thing I was looking to hear about, or really cared about, was the land-control system. Not only did we not see very much of anything ingame, but the land-control system was scratched?

It makes sense they would remove the level cap after deciding to scratch the land-control system, since the level cap will be the only thing maintaining peoples interest after a few months of expansion being released.

I hope, for the sake of AC, Turbine has something up their sleeve, because is looking more and more like AC: DM... a few patches worth of the same repetitive **** no one cares about, with a little dysfunctional housing built in.

To be honest, the land-control system was the only thing, from an outside coder, that I really thought would be challenging for Turbine -- but something that could potentially pay off big. I can't help but think the "lukewarm response" is just an excuse, because I could give you two people who loved it for everyone one who disliked it.

How many times have players requested a game-maintained defend/attack/control scenario? Have many times has a shard of herald or cistern-like quest been requested? I'll tell you, a hell of a lot more than those who requested housing, a level cap increase, race, new armor, and possibly even graphics update.


EDIT:

On another note, I hope Turbine realizes that the posters on their forums are not typically made up of the competitive people who actually play the PvP and compete in the game. I'd like to know where they receive their conclusion for a 'lukewarm reaction', because it's probably the same source that constantly demands more hooks and storage space.. as if those are going to magically make the game more fun.

[glenonearth]

who cares about land control and new skills! I want new armor that looks and acts just like the old armor. I want new monsters that look and act just like the old monsters! I want new quests that look and act just like the old quests! I want new weapons that are overpowered just like the old weapons. That's what makes AC great, repitition. I just can't get enough of the exact same thing month after month! This expansion is gonna rock just like the old expansion rocked!

[wussy_woy]

The expansion is like a large patch. Other than the new race and the graphics, just about everything they are adding are things they could have done in a patch. The land control would have been something that really would have made this expansion stand out, instead, its just me paying too much for a large patch.

[God Slayer]

Ok, so i was at ACPL, and if you heard the reason why they arn't introducing it in the initial expansion..

(and i didn't bother reading everybodies post because it's filled with a lot of complainging).

Ok first they didn't want to throw togethor something that was gonna have bugs and not complete just to give you an elder game.

they wanted to take time and work on it.

So frist quater of 2005 we'll have an expansion

with over 40 new quests and 6,000 new textures

do you have any idea how hard it is to make 6,000 new textures?

and a new race, new island, lots of new weapons, rare stuff

and not to mention higher polly count on models



so i'd rather a strong expansion than what we got with DM

then they can make the elder game

it'll take at least a 4 months for everthing to be figured out



so in the same year you're getting an expainsion that we've wanted for years, all our monthly patches which we always get

and if you don't play other MMO's they really don't get monthly content upgrades .. they get... for the most part.. NOTHING

and before the end of 2005 you get an elder game

what more do you want in 1 year? you're getting 2 expansions for the price of one stop complaining already and be happy that Turbine didn't just let MS get rid of it all togethor.

[Ibn]

This entire thread is mislabeled... the land control system isn't gone, just delayed until we can do it right. We could've gone ahead with the initial design as planned but based on the feedback, it wouldn't have been as popular as we'd like. So instead it'll come out as a free update for everyone who buys the expansion pack a little bit later... and it'll be BETTER than if it had come out with the expansion pack itself.

That's the important thing to remember... we delayed it so we could improve it. We're still committed to adding it to the game, we just want to get it right.

[meridian59gar]

Most carebear advocates fail to realize that PvP is the only real endgame in AC, regardless of how they think it does or doesn't fit in to the rest of the game. If you choose not to PvP, your game WILL eventually stagnate.

Of course, Turbine needs to fix PvP so that it's more attractive to begin with... that's what this system would have done.

[AFWriter]

See, that's the problem -- forced PvP will be the one thing that finally drives people out the AC door, myself near first among them.

And if land control equates with me not being able to hunt in certain areas or perform certain non-superficial quests (see AC2) -- then, that's not kosher either.

Personally, this seems very haphazard in overall design and implementation. I think the biggest problem is that we don't see enough information and more importantly a long-term vision (and I'm not talking spin) for where the franchise is going before hand.

We're getting bits and pieces, and with limited information making assumptions. Some are true, some will evidently be false. In all, I think we're working backwards here.

What we need is a state of the game for 2005, when this is all slated to be done -- and some thought put into that, in order to gauge intent and effects from both the players and devs -- before were set upon a course.

Honestly, why exactly was the elder game shelved -- was it merely PvP in yet another sheep's clothing? What's the rationale behing raising the level cap and giving additional skill credits? Heck, why is it that anyone entering the game today can get a (formerly) limited edition pack doll, but I can't get a Nexus Core Gem or Shadow Atlan or true ppGSX?

The bottom line is that while some things obviously aren't up for negociation (see, the nerfing of the Caul) I know the devs have the game's best interests at heart.

Orion, Jessica and Ibn (poor Ibn gets stuck with carrying the water) didn't just wake up this morning and say, "Gee, let's see who I can get upset today for no good reason." Although with some of the proposed changes -- it can certainly seem that way to some people.

However, when we're given only bits and pieces of the proposal and not the vision as a whole -- we're going to react like this (rightfully) as a community.

What I would have like to have seen was an opportunity to discuss these program initiatives before hand. For example, regarding the Elder Game. It's pretty obvious the idea and concepts (if not the basic programming) for the proposed elder game was put in place before it was announced to us.

Instead, I really would have like to see a pseudo-round table regarding this concept. As it is, it's entirely possible to create a system which will alienate a number of people -- unintentionally.

How you you manage land control without the end result being an imbalance? Timers? Limits to numbers of people on a side? Remember in AC2 entire servers became 90% one faction -- because that was the winning side. Too many of us are sheep -- and a server full of sheep isn't much fun -- unless you're shearing them.

What about ways to involve both PvP and non-PvP content in the land control? Once again, think of Betsy Ross and Ben Franklin. They helped America win the Revolutionary War without picking up a single weapon. Battles may be fought by soldiers with weapons, but wars are won by a people with resolve.

I truly long for an elder game. But a deep, meaningful one. One that is won over days and weeks -- not a single battle scripted into a monthly event. I honestly believe that's the intent here -- but we've gotten off on such the wrong foot.

Can we kind of get a "do over" here? Maybe if the people designing the game will tell us what they envision for the end result -- in better than informal proposal detail, together as both a community and game managers, we can work toward a system and the timing needed to achieve that goal.

And at least, if things go wrong along the way, we'll understand why and be more supportive. (Ibn/Jessica -- McGuire's Innoculation Theory ... learn it, love it, work with it!)

Anyway, that's my two pyreal.

Later,

Don!

[Flynn]

Most carebear advocates fail to realize that PvP is the only real endgame in AC, regardless of how they think it does or doesn't fit in to the rest of the game. If you choose not to PvP, your game WILL eventually stagnate.
That's the most ignorant comment I've heard on these boards in a long time. After almost four years of playing, I'm STILL finding new aspects to the game and new places to explore, and I've NEVER done PvP. Oh, and as it's been said many times (in fact, I recall Ibn almost shouting himself hoarse trying to get this through to people), the land raid system will NOT be just for PKs.

[MaddyFF]

Most carebear advocates fail to realize that PvP is the only real endgame in AC, regardless of how they think it does or doesn't fit in to the rest of the game. If you choose not to PvP, your game WILL eventually stagnate.

That is your opinion, which I totally disagee with for numerous reasons.

I'm curious to see how they work resource control into AC and make the PvP and non-PvP crowd happy.

[Retread]

Most carebear advocates fail to realize that PvP is the only real endgame in AC, regardless of how they think it does or doesn't fit in to the rest of the game. If you choose not to PvP, your game WILL eventually stagnate.

Of course, Turbine needs to fix PvP so that it's more attractive to begin with... that's what this system would have done.


I have been playing, on and off, since 2001. I have multiple chars at 126 and I have never once gone red or pink. If the game stagnates for me, it will not be because of a lack of PvP.

I have absolutely no desire for PvP. That means I have no desire to compete with other players either as PK or via some other "land control" mechanism. I fear that Turbine thinks that adding some other PvP mechanism in addition to PK will somehow be attractive to me. They are very wrong.

When turbine runs out of ideas for new quest for me to solo and new things to explore and discover on my own and new monsters to fight, then I will be done.

Level grind? Well all I can say is I've been playing computer games since before there were PC's. I wouldn't even want to see the number of times I've played tetris or spider solataire or some older games(colossal cave, the original adventure - on a DEC PDP-11) over and over. AC has much more variety than any of those other games. I have never been bored with the game. My interest do drift to other things in life and I stop playing. But there is nothing turbine can do to change that.

[Khael]

I agree with topic poster.

Land raiding system was the thing i was waiting for too - guess I wait another year till i reopen my acct heh.

[Sangria]

Since we had no real details to base our opinions on - all I could really say is if it forced me to PvP i would probably stop playing. Killing fellow players does not turn me on.

But at the same time, I realize that there are a lot of players who get a real kick out of the PvP thing and that is cool too.

I did not like the Elder game idea going on what little information we were given. that said, i would have bought one expansion pack and checked it out. I am willing to give anything a chance.

If I hated it I would simply not renew and find something else to do. No long tearful good byes and **** like that. Just because I am not into something does not mean it has to be scrapped for everyone else. If it were possible to play and not be subjected to all the PvP BS that goes on I would probably continue to play anyway.

[Silifi Of Death]

I have absolutely no desire for PvP. That means I have no desire to compete with other players either as PK or via some other "land control" mechanism. I fear that Turbine thinks that adding some other PvP mechanism in addition to PK will somehow be attractive to me. They are very wrong.



GUESS WHAT?!

The Universe doesn't revolve around you!

Turbine should be giving content to the MAJORITY of the playerbase, whether or not you like it is irrelevant.

You "fear" that Turbine thinks PvP will attract people? Of course it will! Almost all MMOs are about PvP in the end, so of course that's what Turbine is working on.

The PvP base is FAR bigger than people think it is. On pretty much every white server, I see that at least half the players out there are PKLers or PKers. DT is one of the biggest servers, excluding VT. And they've been waiting for a purpose to fight. Right now, there is nothing for PKs to fight over. If you fight over UCM spots you'll be banned, fighting over towns doesn't mean anything. PKs have been waiting VERY patiently for something to do while almost all the content since DM has been solely for NPKs. DM came out in 2001. It's 2004 now. They've been waiting THREE YEARS. They will have waited FOUR by the time this system comes out. Whether or not you give a damn about land control is irrelevant, because at least half of AC's playerbase has been waiting for something to do.

The last Expansion catered to the NPKs. This Expansion should cater to the PKs, who have already lost much of what they had before.

[meridian59gar]

Agreed. Regardless of any numbers involving AC that carebears show us, the fact remains that nearly every computer gamer wants competition. It's the spice of life; the source of enjoyment in a game - the POINT of a GAME. AC does not have this; AC is dying. Do you see the connection?

[MaddyFF]

Turbine should be giving content to the MAJORITY of the playerbase, whether or not you like it is irrelevant.

The PvP base is FAR bigger than people think it is. On pretty much every white server, I see that at least half the players out there are PKLers or PKers.

I play on WE and FF and the number of PK'ers I see is pretty much zilch. For PKL, maybe a handful and that is mainly around Ayan.

So from my subjective observations the majority of the player base doesn't engage in PvP.

[Silifi Of Death]

Well Maddy, my observations contradict yours. I play WE all the time, and I've checked out most of the other servers. I see plenty of PKLers. DT is far from being an extinct server. My observations show that at least half, or near half, of the player base engages in PvP.

No matter how many PK/Lers there are, it's still a fairly large portion of the player base that Turbine cannot afford to neglect. And the thing that they've been waiting to get for years is being pushed farther down the line, and won't even be announced as a feature of the x-pack. Believe it or not, there are many people out there that like PvP, not just current players of AC. Isn't the X-pack supposed to attract new players as well and bring back old players? Much of the former PvP base left because there wasn't enough PvP love, and they'll only come back if the X-pack announces a land control system. People looking for a PvP game won't come to AC despite the fact it has a great PvP system, because it doesn't announce anything about PvP.

They need the land-control system on DT at least, but stupid carebears (and that means only the stupid ones) keep complaining that DT gets everything. All the new content is targeted towards NPKs. What was the last quest or game dynamic that benefited PKs? Weeping Weapons, and that was a mixed blessing. How many times has NPK content caused huge problems in the PK world? Several times, with the addition of Armor Tinkering and Housing, which completely threw off balance of PK.

[Renegade Knight]

Agreed, the land control system was something i looked forward too and i am on WE! PKing is great, it adds to the game because your not fighting some mindless creature (or are you?) and makes you think about your actions...PK is like PvM where you have to actually think!

/e watches all the "carebears" do :eek:

[stafia]

At least could you apply the raid sistem on DT to see it and improvet over time ...? There noone will be mad everyone is pk :)

[Paraduck]

At least could you apply the raid sistem on DT to see it and improvet over time ...? There noone will be mad everyone is pk :)Then people will be mad that DT gets something really special and all this new tech that the other servers won't for a few months, and from the players' point of view, see all that dev time as being "wasted."

[Retread]

GUESS WHAT?!

The Universe doesn't revolve around you!

Turbine should be giving content to the MAJORITY of the playerbase, whether or not you like it is irrelevant.

Actually whether or not I like it is very relevent. As is whether you like it or not. It's our personal opinions the determine whether turbines plans work or not. Your statement is ridiculous. By posting what we do or do not like, we communicate to Turbine our wants. Get a brain! It helps.

"You "fear" that Turbine thinks PvP will attract people?"

Which end of your two rectums did you pull this out of. I certainly made no such statement.


The PvP base is FAR bigger than people think it is. On pretty much every white server, I see that at least half the players out there are PKLers or PKers..

I wish I had super powers like you so I can make up statements like this too.
How long does it take you to SEE this? Are you like Santa Claus? He can travel the whole world in just one night. My mommy said so.

Whether or not you give a damn about land control is irrelevant, because at least half of AC's playerbase has been waiting for something to do.

As stated earlier, it is relevant. I will continue to voice my opinion. It's a good thing that you voice yours too. Good luck on that land control thing, lol. It seems that folks like me got it pushed out of the expansion. Of course, according to you, we are just a misguided minority. ROFL

The last Expansion catered to the NPKs.

Again, I wonder why? Given that over half of each server are PK'ers according to you.

This Expansion should cater to the PKs, who have already lost much of what they had before.

Why? Oops, I'm being redundant...you've already answered that. Hmm...well maybe you can explain why turbine has not seemed to agree with you over the last 5 years. And why is there 1 PK server and a bunch of white servers instead of the other way around. Especiallly since there are so few of us carebears. I bet this game would really be going strong if you were running the show.

I'm going to be nice and just pretend I didn't hear you try to make an idiotic arguement suggesting that the population numbers of DT( the 1 pk world) should be compared individually against each white world in order to show that there are more interested in PK. I know you meant that just as a joke.

[MaddyFF]

Well Maddy, my observations contradict yours. I play WE all the time, and I've checked out most of the other servers. I see plenty of PKLers. DT is far from being an extinct server. My observations show that at least half, or near half, of the player base engages in PvP.
...
No matter how many PK/Lers there are, it's still a fairly large portion of the player base that Turbine cannot afford to neglect.

MY last 3 times at Ayan on WE when the word population said it was above 500 I saw zero PvP'ers. That is my observation. ;)

Now that last line of yours I quoted points out something, this land/resource control sounds like it is being toutedas part of the elder game system. So you want Turbine to neglect the majority of its player base in regards to this?

[Silifi Of Death]

Actually whether or not I like it is very relevent. As is whether you like it or not. It's our personal opinions the determine whether turbines plans work or not. Your statement is ridiculous. By posting what we do or do not like, we communicate to Turbine our wants. Get a brain! It helps.

Yes, but your telling them to get rid of something that much of the playter base DOES want. I mean, no matter what the size of the population is PK, it's still a SIGNIFICANT portion! And they've been screwed over for years now, and your complaining that Turbine is using dev time to try and make it better?



Which end of your two rectums did you pull this out of. I certainly made no such statement.

You said you feared that Turbine thought it would attract you. Now I believe I made myself clear on my last point that the universe isn't all about you, so that's what I meant.

Oh yeah, you might want to stop making such rude comments, it just destroys your credibility.



I wish I had super powers like you so I can make up statements like this too.
How long does it take you to SEE this? Are you like Santa Claus? He can travel the whole world in just one night. My mommy said so.

Stop saying stupid **** that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Do you always insult people and make stupid jokes when you can't come up with a decent argument?

I see this by going around in places where PKs frequent. I see plenty of PKers in the MP on WE every day, and I see many PKs at AB. Not to mention there is an entire server designated to PvP, which has decent server population. The only reason it's not higher than the other ones is because it's been neglected so long.


As stated earlier, it is relevant. I will continue to voice my opinion. It's a good thing that you voice yours too. Good luck on that land control thing, lol. It seems that folks like me got it pushed out of the expansion. Of course, according to you, we are just a misguided minority. ROFL

You think the only people that play the game are the people who post on these boards?

There were plenty of people fighting for the land control system too.

Turbine is going to lose people over this, you know. So of course it matters that they pay attention to their pvp base.

Will this effect people on White Worlds AT ALL? No, it won't. If you don't PK then you don't have to. Have the things that NPKs got effects PKs in a negative way? Hell yes. Tinked Armor, Housing, as I already said, completely destroyed PK.

It's Turbine's game, if they don't want to market it with the new land control system, they just won't be getting more people to come back.



Maddy, you might want to try going there during prime times, or at least positing when you went. At around 7-10 EST you can see a ton of PKs in the MP and Ayan.

[Vlad Morbius]

Quoted by IBN
"This entire thread is mislabeled... the land control system isn't gone, just delayed until we can do it right. We could've gone ahead with the initial design as planned but based on the feedback, it wouldn't have been as popular as we'd like. So instead it'll come out as a free update for everyone who buys the expansion pack a little bit later... and it'll be BETTER than if it had come out with the expansion pack itself.

That's the important thing to remember... we delayed it so we could improve it. We're still committed to adding it to the game, we just want to get it right.
__________________
Alex "Ibn" Beckers
AC1 Online Community Relations "

Land control in any form cannot take place until balance is restored to the game. Otherwise the entire world of Dereth will be ruled by mages....wait maybe that's what they wanted all along "Mageland"

[Palum]

Stop saying stupid **** that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Do you always insult people and make stupid jokes when you can't come up with a decent argument?



OOHHHHHH THE IRONY!

AC2 has a land control type system now. It didn't quite beat June '03, but it was up there in account cancelations.

Turbine realized there was a lot more involved with land control then they thought.

PKers want it to be rewarding. They want it to be challenging. They also want it to be available so there are people to compete against.

NPKers want it to not be mandatory. They want it to be accessable to many types of characters. They want it to be isolated so it doesn't destroy the fabric of the game for the sake of a few laughs and PK fights.

If the system is rewarding, it is also therefore nigh mandatory. Since turbine includes anything possible as probable (IE full suit of majors = average skill check), a noticeable edge in anything other than strictly PvP would essentially make the PvP mandatory.

If the system is challenging to high level mages, it is impossible for anyone else. Pretty obvious, goes back to the whole balance issue.

AC2's failed miserably because in order to do anything with land control you had to KEEP doing it constantly. Every 2 hours your fort gets overrun, and you have to go overrun the others fort... Granted most people have just given up by now but that doesn't create the longevity a robust end game requires.

If you think PvP is challenging, try leveling without a macro, vassals, ExTREME template and buffbots. Maybe if you were a little less 'ubar' you would find the same content that you pass by now was challenging and required tactics other than Vuln VII first.

[Silifi Of Death]

What exactly did that quote have to do with anything Palum...?

I agree, they should take their time to develop things. But they should just delay the x-pack until land-control is done. Why? Because if the Land-Control is good, it will sell the game. People won't come to a game if it says "Land Control is Coming Soon!" That just makes it look like they are just a proccrastinating team that just pushes things out the door before they are finished. Now we know that's the exact opposite of what they're doing, but will anyone else know?

[Retread]

Silifi Of Death" Yes, but your telling them to get rid of something that much of the playter base DOES want. I mean, no matter what the size of the population is PK, it's still a SIGNIFICANT portion! And they've been screwed over for years now, and your complaining that Turbine is using dev time to try and make it better?

You have this real bad habit of stating that I say things that I have not said. I have not told turbine to get rid of anything. Show me where. Second, I have not made any complaint about how the devs allocate their time. That is their decision. Your ability to debate seems to be limited to making up things, claiming someone else said it and then arguing about it.

I stated I have no interest in PvP or it's implementation as land control and I stated what I do like about the game. It is perfectly reasonable for me to post my opinion on this subject on turbines discussion board.

For some unknown reason it bothered you that I have an opinion different from yours and you chose to attack me for it. The problem is you did a very poor job of it.


You said you feared that Turbine thought it would attract you. Now I believe I made myself clear on my last point that the universe isn't all about you, so that's what I meant.

Yes now this I did say and it is far different from your twisted misquote in your previous post. And apparently the universe revolves around you as it appears that it is okay to post your view but if I post an opposing view, there is something wrong.

It's illogical that you would attack me for stating my opinion while touting yours as being the "right" one to hold.


Stop saying stupid **** that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Do you always insult people and make stupid jokes when you can't come up with a decent argument?

Do you really believe you have made even one decent argument anywhere in your attacks on me? Try re-reading. I made no post to you until you insulted me. This is obvious to anyone who just looks at this thread.

I see this by going around in places where PKs frequent. I see plenty of PKers in the MP on WE every day, and I see many PKs at AB. Not to mention there is an entire server designated to PvP, which has decent server population. The only reason it's not higher than the other ones is because it's been neglected so long.

Lets see you admit you go around to where you expect the PK's hang out. You see mostly PK's there and you then use this to support a claim that at least half of each server is PK. I really don't expect you to see the problem in this. But others will.


You think the only people that play the game are the people who post on these boards?

There were plenty of people fighting for the land control system too.

Turbine is going to lose people over this, you know. So of course it matters that they pay attention to their pvp base.

Turbine should pay attention to the opinions of as many of it's players and potential players as possible. That includes mine, even though you think I should not voice it. One big difference between you and I is that I speak for myself. You believe you can speak for others and therfore you think you have more credibility.

You have one voice just as I do. You attacked my right to post my view.

Will this effect people on White Worlds AT ALL? No, it won't. If you don't PK then you don't have to. Have the things that NPKs got effects PKs in a negative way? Hell yes. Tinked Armor, Housing, as I already said, completely destroyed PK.

You don't know any more than I do as to how or whether this will affect folks on white worlds. Turbine has often in the past in both AC and AC2 gone past just implementing a mechanism and left players to decide whether they want to participate. Instead turbine likes to attempt to enforce a playstyle on players. The worst implementation of this was when they put essentially necessary dungeons in AC2 in PK zones. This forced NPK players to deal with PK. They are subtlely introducing forced grouping quest into AC1 now. Turbine seems to lack confidence to just present a great game and let players decide on their own playstyle.

If I knew that turbine would not make land control rewards that would be of significant importance to NPK's there would be no word on the issue from me. But turbine has shown a predisposition to "encourage" players to do things they don't want to do by adding a reward that essentially forces you to take part or miss out. This type of player manipulation is a large part of the reason we do not have a more friendly game community.

You are obviously passionate about having land control. I am 100% non PvP. How much better would things be if turbine made an effort to ensure that features like this did not pit one camp against the other. All I can do is let turbine know that I have no interest in that part of their plans. All you should do is let turbine known how much you want this.

Instead you prefered to attack me for my view.

It's Turbine's game, if they don't want to market it with the new land control system, they just won't be getting more people to come back.

If that were an established fact, then land control would be a part of the expansion. Instead Turbine is a business and they make decisions based on their best information about what their customers want and what will attract potential customers. Turbine receives more info on this than you or I. It does not mean they will make the right decision. But it does mean that turbine does not believe any more than I do that your view is correct.

[Khael]

Oh well, I frickin can't wait till they get it done! Will be SO awesome to have meaningfull fights again on DT, now that all other incentives are gone.

Kinda wish they woulda implemented some of the nice suggestions posted previously on the pvp board, like implementing fountains in towns that give a temporary stat boost, so there would be something to fight for the next year untill this land raid control finally makes it in game.

But since it'll be one year before we get that, there is quite a chance I get caught up in some other upcoming pvp based mmorpg like Darkfall :/

AC will always be my favorite game of all times though :)