2 major concerns about the expansion pack

[Mogosh]

I am not sure that the various reports about the expansion pack are accurate. But if they are, I have a major problem in two areas:

- there will be level 200+ and level 250+ restricted dungeons.

This is completely ridiculous. A char is fully maxed regarding his central skills and attributes at 180. After that, it's a matter of filling less important areas like mana max, racial skills, run, racial weapon etc. till level 220-230 depending on template. After 220-230, you may have to REDUCE the effective combat abilities of your char in order to still gain XP (like unspec war so that you can take spear, assess creature, etc., in order to sink more XP). It was made clear that the skill or attribute XP will remain capped. So I don't see how to spend the difference between 24 billion (level 180 optimal char) and 120 billion (level 250). Then are the DEVs suggesting that the players are supposed to keep 96 billion unassigned? Destroy your char and break your skills so you can sink more XP?

There also seems an unfairness in preventing (restricting??) talented players to play above their level. This was the most irritating part of AC2: if a level 35 player killed a big gurog they get almost no XP, but they could camp little buruns and reap xp, (although it bored them to death-hence their frustration). We see everyday in AC1 inept level 200+, who can press "start" but can't solo two black breaths. Since a level 180 has almost the same combat abilities of a level 230, why can't they enter the same dungeon, where personal skill would matter?

- you will not be able to swear a level 180 to a level 150

WOW. :eek: This change is exceptionnally harmful, besides being inconsistent with other aspects of the game (fellows between 50 and 275, level 1s under full buff 7, reaching level 30 in an hour or two - there are lots of ways to help lower levels in AC1). I suspect this is not an intended change, but plain laziness ("sorry, it would require about 0.01 man.month to rewrite the swear check with new levels to keep it the way it's always been - we're too tight on ressource"). All it does is to effectively freeze the top of the ladder of all the old chained trade mules, by significantly increasing the difficulties to create new ones. I fear that this will be viewed as extremely unfair to the new player or returning player bases Turbine is surely hoping it will be able to attract with this expansion pack.

This reason is enough for me to NEVER buy the expansion pack. I am not going to play a weapon tinkerer. A mule is a mule. A maxed mule needs to reach 156-158. After that, it does not need anything, ever, so you need to push another mule, i.e. reswear. I have always played my mains under my mules, and I will carry on doing so until they are all maxed. I would PAY for an expansion pack that would enable me to swear a level 170 to a level 135 (if it wasn't already the case 126-126). But guess what? I don't have to! All I need is keep my money! :rolleyes:

Now I hope there is an official Q&A on Turbine's site, and the rumors are voided or confirmed.

This is worrying.

[MaddyFF]

The devs are quite away on how a person's skills flatten out at the high end and I'm willing to bet they will take that into account when desiging a new dungeon.

you will not be able to swear a level 180 to a level 150
...This change is exceptionnally harmful, besides being inconsistent with other aspects of the game ...


Change? This has been the case since day one. You could never swear a higher level character to a lower level one.

[Ai Rashoku]

I think they mean if they were previously sworn in.. not sure.

[Mogosh]

Maddy, you have been able to swear a level 180 to a level 150 from day one. Just like the complex fellow XP share system stops and flattens at 50, the swear limitation stops at 126. This will be changed in the expansion pack.

[Ai Rashoku]

No it won't.

How will the increased levels effect existing patron/vassal relations?
Answer: There will be no problems for existing characters. For example, it is currently possible for a character to out level their patron. If someone is recalculated to level 180 and their patron is only 126, they 180 will stay sworn. However, if the level 180 should break from their patron, they cannot swear back as their patron is a lower level than they are.

[MaddyFF]

Originally posted by Mogosh
Maddy, you have been able to swear a level 180 to a level 150 from day one. Just like the complex fellow XP share system stops and flattens at 50, the swear limitation stops at 126. This will be changed in the expansion pack.

No you haven't. Show me a level 180 or 150 in the game. Heck, tell me what world to log into to see this and I'll do it.

Level 126 is the max level in AC, has been since 1999. If people want to play pretend levels on a non-AC site then they can feel free too. Turbhine has stated before that the current max level in AC is 126 and is being raised to 275 for those that purchase the expansion package.

[Yinchi]

Maddy... at present, a 180 is still a 126.

Under the new system... a 180 is a 180. Those who return to the game who were higher than their monarch or those who want to switch their downline around, may find they can no longer be under their old monarch, since they are now truly a 180, not a 126.

I am assuming that there will be a change in fellows too.. not 50+. Perhaps 150-200 fellows.. the same with dungeons. I hope this is not the case.

[Ai Rashoku]

No, fellows will not be affected.

Still 50+

[boneyard]

read the full info before you speculate too much:
http://acvault.ign.com/features/editorials/tn2k4-expansion.shtml#tod

Will the fellowship cap change? Currently, anyone over level 50 can fellow with each other without restriction. Answer: There are no planned changes to the fellowship

as for complaining about lvl 200+ dungeons, i dont see the problem. when they raise the cap then certainly there should be some things specially for the higher levels. now dont assume im one of those because im pretty sure i will never be able to get into a lvl 200+ dungeon and perhaps not even a lvl 150+ one in the coming years. these dungeons will prolly just be mainly better xp giving hunting grounds, not odd that the highest people get access to those i think.

with this question turbine setteled my initial unrest about level reqs for quests.

Will there be more level breaks for quests (i.e., 60-79, 80-99, 100+?)
Answer: It’s been discussed, but as players reach the higher levels and skills, the cost increases exponentially so there’s not much of a difference between players at high levels. We expect the Uber (100+) level break to cover us for at least a couple of months after the expansion. While we discuss it and see how it plays out.

as for the complaining about swearing, thats just a part of raising a level cap. personally i hoped for quests on death items and about xp reduction for killing lower level critters.

[Septa Scarabae]

Will the fellowship cap change? Currently, anyone over level 50 can fellow with each other without restriction.

Whoops, beat me to it.

[Mogosh]

Boneyard, no idea what you mean with quoting the fellowship system being maintained. Read the whole post before you speculate too much, LOL!. I was citing it as an example in game where Turbine considers that there is a level threshold after which everything is flattened.

After 50, the complex system of sharing stops, and everyone shares equally. Likewise, right now, after 126, any char can swear to you.

Keeping this "swear threshold level" would be a good thing, and the example of the fellowship XP-share shows that Turbine can introduce a level cap. There is no reason why displaying higher levels would necessarily imply changing the whole swearing system after 126, shattering monarchies, making it much harder to push mules.

Monarchies rise and fall. Some fade, some vanish. Players leave the game. Come back. Leave again. Reroll.

Reswearing is the norm, not the exception. Destroying the current system is really harmful, and a good reason for me to not buy the exapnsion pack (I WILL push my mules with my mains).




Edit: Also, about the level 250+ restriction. I'm not sure my point is clear. With the current skill/attribute system, you simply cannot spend XP after level 220-230 AND KEEP YOUR CHAR STRONG. A level 180 may be roughly as strong as a level 220. But a level 250 is definitely weaker than a level 180.

If there is enough change with the gems that you can actually sink your XP without breaking your template, then maybe a 250 can be strong. But it looks completely strange to make 250+ restrictions, since there is no way that ACTING xp corresponding to a level 250 can make a char stronger than a level 220.

To me, there is a big difference between a 200+ and a 250+ restriction. The 200+ is similar in effect as a 100+, 130+, whatever. A 250+ is HARMFUL to a char. You have to destroy your template to reach this.


Edit 2: now I see how my sentence was unclear and could make think I was saying that the 50+ fellow system would change. Oh well. Do you guys read the post? They try to say something, but...(the first says that a 50 can fellow with a 275 for ex). Anyway. Commenting on completely out-of-topic things simply blurrs the issue. At the moment, most posts are about how level 180s dont exist and show me in game where and all that, and about no! you can still fellow at 50+ after the expansion pack. English is not my language, so I'm not crystal-clear despite my efforts.

/me try now simple:

1) gah! me have to unpsec war to reach 250! Can't play without spec war! Can't enter dungeon! Tusker/wasp n00b can and not meh!

2) can't reswear to my cook when my weap tink is maxed! Gah! Keeping my money till tink is level 158. Staying monarch when my patron leaves the game coz cant swear to my current monarch!

[Og II]

Well, I have no inside information, and this is pure speculation on my part.... however:

Think that maybe the reason a level 200+ will not be able to swear to a level 126 after the expansion might have to do with some of the new content will allow a level 200 to make a lot more xp than a 126 could? Right now, that is not really the case. Maybe they know something about the upcoming dynamic that we don't yet? Think that might be possible?

From what I have seen, the expansion looks great. It kills me to see so much cynicism from my fellow gamers.

[-Vlaid-]

I think with augmentation gems a level 250 will be MUCH stronger than a 180. For example, there may be a 250+ gem that gives you 50% more health. Maybe a 275 only gem that increases all your skills by a percent. Its endless. I'm just sure turbine won't ignore the fact that as you approach higher levels, you don't get stronger per say.

[MaddyFF]

Originally posted by Yinchi
Maddy... at present, a 180 is still a 126.

No, a 126 is a 126. There are no 180's in game. It is a non-issue in my opinion. After the expansion pack, and only for those that purchase it will there be levels greater then 126 in the game. If that is a concern for people, don't buy the expansion pack.

And no fellowship changes at this point, although I would liek to see a a 50-99 tier and then a 100+ tier.

[boneyard]

i wasnt replying to what you said mogosh

i was replying about this I am assuming that there will be a change in fellows too.. not 50+. Perhaps 150-200 fellows.. the same with dungeons. I hope this is not the case.

[Pyria]

I cant believe you people are already *****ing about a expanison you hardle know anything about...how freakin sad.

[Mogosh]

This thread needs no further "comments". Maybe a few dozen more "+1" posts from Maddy so that we understand really really well, but apart from that, Turbine and interested readers have been made aware of what I consider as 2 major questions. Although my concern about the uselessness of acting XP beyond 220 has found little echo in the board community, the possible impossibility to re-swear someone, within post-126s, after breaking appears shared by some.


Hopefully, when we have an official Q&A, those questions will be answered. From all reports I have seen to date, though, it seems clear that a level 180 will not be able to swear to a level 130, just like a 115 cannot swear to a 114. 126 will not be anymore a threshold after which anyone can swear to anyone.

No need to say it will have an impact on sales. Players will have to weigh the advantages and drawbacks of the expansion pack... Why at all? Did anyone ever ask to reform the post-126 swearing mechanism? Was it ever considered a gameplay problem, by players or by Turbine? I don't remember seeing this supposed problem mentionned anywhere.

[Albion_the_Grey]

I want to see dungeons with max level restrictions so the lower levels have a place to hunt without some high level macroing the night away. ie colier OHN restricted to levels 20-40 (or something like that)

[vellus]

well, uninstall the expansion, install DM. You are both 126, swear all you want, then install expansion again...

there must be something in the client to authenticate your level, since it is an expansion thing that shows up to 175.

If it works based of your account and not your install, then not gonna work, like DM content did at first...

[MaddyFF]

Originally posted by Mogosh
126 will not be anymore a threshold after which anyone can swear to anyone.

New threshold, unless Turbine changes things, will likely be 275.

+1

[GKusnick]

Mogosh: The new post-126 levels come with new skill credits. You won't have to unspec anything to level beyond 220.

[Rafein]

Even if you don;t get the expansion, your level will change.

like how in DM, you didn;t need the CD for anything but the code. Everythign was ready to go, just needed to get flagged to access it.

but honestly, I don't mind this change. It further nerf chains, which can always use nerfing.

[Mogosh]

Good point GKusnick. With a couple new skills, a tri-spec mage could level to 235 or 236 without breaking anything, a lot more than the 220 I was mentionning.

I still can see a problem at 250 for some templates. Level 250 is very high for the current system.

It looks like we're going to have to sink everything between 235 and 275 in the new gems. 235 is halway to 275 XP-wise. Are we going to spend half our XP on something else than our char?

I'm waiting for more info on those gems before loosing hope.

[BillBraskey]

Hopefully they will address the complications for ultra high lvls swearing to 126's.

Say I am Lvl 180. I become unsatisfied in my current monarchy. So I look for a new one, and I find a few that sound nice, but there is nobody above me in lvl in those monarchies. It could severly limit the options I have for chosing a monarchy.

What I would like to see is a monarch be able to swear in anyone no matter what their level, BUT if they are below their vassal's level at the time of swearing, they do not get passup.

[Deiwos_WE]

Originally posted by Rafein
Even if you don;t get the expansion, your level will change.

Not true, we were specifically told levels above 126 would not be available without the expansion. Just an fyi.

[Rafein]

Wow. never read that.

Well, there is your answer, don;t buy the expansion.

my only other idea is to allow anyone to swear to anyone after the expansion hits. But if the Patron is not equal or higher level than the vassal, no exp is passed up.

This would allow players to to recruit into their monarchies without worry, and would nerf the "chainers" , who move around between patrons, depending on exp.

[Arch Magi]

"you will not be able to swear a level 180 to a level 150"

Personally, if this is a "feature" of the Expansion pack, I will NOT be buying 4 copies of it.

If it is forced upon us, I will consider unsubscribing several accounts, or quitting all together.

Turbine has hosed Monarchs and their 2nd in commands over enough by trashing our XP Passup/Through, and what little reward we get from having a Monarch with the guild name at the top will just be pissed away with this on.

No longer will our level 126 "Figurehead" be at the top, but if we want to have someone join our guild who is above that (and my toons are already WELL above it) then that throws a pain in the butt dynamic into our choice as to if we are going to accept someone into the guild.

Way to go Turbine, just when I thought that you couldn't get any more moronic, you go and prove me wrong.

[DraconisUmbra]

According to Turbine the new level curve will be very similar if not the same as the one used by TS2. Keeping that mind consider this; 146,363,475,318 the amount of total xp that the highest level character in the game, "High Tinks" has. This is level 260. His Patron is level 194 and has 34,803,766,382 xp. If for someone reason High Tinks left the monarchy, and it's possible for this to be an accident or caused by a "hacker" then his patron would need to earn over 110 BILLION xp in order for High Tinks to reswear to him. That's GD ridiculous.

[Cash_we]

it has being confirmed: http://acvault.ign.com/features/editorials/tn2k4-expansion.shtml#todla

If a level 180 is sworn to a level 150, nothing will happen unless the 180 level one breaks, then it wont be able to swear back for obious reasons.

[Sun Wu]

Friends who intend to best manipulate the new pledging situation will obviously, prior to installing the XP en masse, arrange their 126 characters in a new way.

Not that this would allow serial pledging to one's social inferiors. The new monarchy tree would be quite rigid. But it would have an advantage nobody could replicate post-XP:

If there are ultra-level dungeons and outdoor areas, offering greater yield-per-hour, then you could potentially double or triple your passup. The point is to target this flow before the XP.

The highest of high-yield vassals SHOULD be prevented from serial pledging. Someone quoted 230 as the mid-point toward 275. How many patrons should you be able to push to 200 on your way from 230-275? I have no numbers, just saying.