To get things started -- the Falatacot and the Burun [Archive]

EvilElvis

08-10-2004, 11:29 PM

From what I can tell... (note: I differentiate the Falatacot from Empyrean, although Falatacot are technically part of that category. I do so because I'm not exactly sure which Empyrean are the "Followers of the Light", but it may be the Nali Valind)

The Falatacot Priestess' went to Bur, and decided to start using the reptilian inhabitants as servants.

On Bur, there were Moars, Moarsmen, and the creatures they later turned into Sclavus. Mabye the Burun too, although it's possible they were actually brought here by someone, and were not indigenous. It's not made clear.

The Moars were brought to Veseyan, with the approval of the Empyrean. The Empyrean thought they could use the Moar to help undo what the Priestess' were doing doing to the magic on Bur. What happened to the Moar from here is unknown. They may have more connection to the Moarsman, since it's those creatures who were used to control the burun, which might have been what was meant (in the paragraph below) as helping to right what the Falatacot had done to Bur.

Moarsmen were split into 2 groups by the Empyrean: feral and "tamed". The feral were sent back to Bur in hopes that they could keep the Burun population under control. The tamed ones were left on the Veseyan Islands, as protectors (to the nali valind?). The tamed ones later escaped, and breed out of captivity on the Islands.

The Priestess' took some one of the creatures on Bur and some male Falatacot Consorts, and conjoined them into the Sclavus, as servants. These Sclavus are refered to as Fiazhat by the Burun, and began to make Bur their home. However, some were also brought to Auberean, and were even used as servants by the Empyrean.

The Burun seem to have suffered while the Sclavus controlled Bur, and hated them for this. It seems that they hate the Falatacot because they were the gods of the Sclavus, although Geraine may have had a part in their anger towards the Falatacot. It's possible that Geraine helped to manipulate their anger towards the Falatacot (See below), in order to get revenge upon them (for turning him Undead?).

The Burun became too much for the Falatacot/Sclavus, and the Falatacot were forced to leave Bur.

Now, at some point in time, They began to worship "The Sleeping One" (Geraine, most likely). It seems that Geraine gave them some sort of Mucor which helped to mutate them (at least the kukuur class). The Burun split into 3 castes. One caste became the leader/noble class (kukuur). The second caste were the Warriors (guruk), and were controlled by the kukuur. The 3rd caste seems to be a worker or common class (ruuk). This evolution was probably the cause for the Burun being able to take controll of Bur, and the reason the Falatacot were forced to leave.

It seems that Geraine prophecised that they would one day have a chance at revenge against the Sclavus and their gods, the Falatacot. It's likely it is he who somehow opened the portals to Auberean. Some of the ruuk started drinking the mucor in secret, and became the leaders of the ruuk. They were the first to come through the Falatacot portals into Auberean.

Paraduck

08-10-2004, 11:40 PM

It's likely it is he who somehow opened the portals to Auberean. Some of the ruuk started drinking the mucor in secret, and became the leaders of the ruuk. They were the first to come through the Falatacot portals into Auberean.

So that may mean he's no longer sleeping, eh?

EvilElvis

08-10-2004, 11:50 PM

We really don't know what he's doing, or why. All we know is what others refer to him as.

It's likely it's just a partial metaphor to denote him waiting in the shadows for the opportune moment.

He may be in some sort of hibernation. Maybe he has powers that transcend physical boundaries. Maybe he has some followers who are following out his orders or plans. Dunno. It might have been covered in some detail in the AC2 lore, but I don't really follow it that much.

Someguy1

08-11-2004, 01:25 AM

I figured all of the Falatacot's meddling with Bur occured pre-Geraine at the height of the Falatacot's civilization. The falatacot were in ruins because of an ice age when Geraine was young. So it most likely can't be him.

"So long before we gifted this world
with magic, and now we find that the magic
we meant for our children has been used against them.

Bloated, gluttonous, monstrosities devour
the streams of the World's Blood
and lead the War of Hate upon the Fiazhat."

and

"and saw the bloated mass of a swamp thing drunk on power."

That sounds like the Kukuur (or whatever the big fat Burun are). So it seems the falatacot were responsible for bringing magic to Bur and to the Burun which used it against the fiahzat.

We actually know a lot about the Burun and what happened thousands of years ago however all we have are bits and pieces about the Sleeping One. We know its credited with creating all life on Bur but that may just be a belief of the burun more than it is fact. Maybe this patch will shed some new light on the subject...

BTW I've always wondered if there was a connection between Aerbax/Ler Rhan with their energy source and the falatacot/Burun.

Scrum, Drudge Seraph Mystic tells you, "You are not worthy of the air that mighty Scrum breathes! Scrum has been touched by the beast of thirteen floating eyes. Scrum now enacts the will of the beast of thirteen floating eyes. The purge of the natural order begins with the Banderling. Too long have we, the drudge been subject to their wangas. Scrum now leads the Drudge Seraph, and Dnaraag shall be brought low! Such is the will of the beast of thirteen floating eyes."

"The Beast of Thirteen Floating Eyes", I doubt its any coincidence that the falatacot temples are covered with eyes? Not sure if its directly involved with the Burun or if it itself is the Sleeping One but it maybe related.

EvilElvis

08-11-2004, 03:12 AM

Well, for what it's worth, Geraine is/was controlling the Burun in AC2, and I seem to recall him being refered to as The Sleeping One before.

The burun make refrence to the eye(s) on Bur as well. That pre-dates Ler Rhan/Aerbrax. So, too, would the eyse on the Falatacot temples. So, we know the eyes have a greater significance then being directly related to just Aerbrax/Ler Rhan.

If the eyes are some part of Falatacot magic (dealing with the Old Ones?), and they taught Geraine, it's conceivable the meaning and relevance of these eyes are something he taps into himself, which would explain his use of the eyes on Bur (if hes TSO). I'd have to check into the timeline stuff, which I'm not keen on doing, to see if he's not around at a point in time where this is all possible.

So, the eyes are used by Falatacot, maybe dealing with The Old Ones. Now, if Ler Rhan/Aerbrax are messing around with Falatacot stuff, what are the options?

It's possible that Aerbrax has been MIA because he's tapped into some Falacot magic, which transformed him into the Beast of 13 eyes. But, then who's The Sleeping One? The Sleeping One seems to have some plans for the Burun, so why would Aerbrax/Ler Rhan get involved? Do they know about TSO? Now it's getting complicated.

Or, the Beast of 13 eyes could be some powerful being releated to the Falatacot/Old Ones whom Aerbrax/Ler Rhan managed to gain control of. If that was the case, this Beast may be The Sleeping One. But if that's true, why would The Sleeping One do things that would mess with the Falatacot Priestesses plans on Bur? If they're not the same, are we now bringing two new, seperate powers into the mix? Now it's really getting complicated.

I'm not sure how this Beast of the 13 eyes relates to the Drudge, and how/if it relates to Aerbrax/Ler Rhan. You would think the Beast would have to have something to do with A/LR, since they're the ones who have been changing the Drudges. And you'd also think that A/LR would have something to do with the current storyline, since they've been mentioned alot.

Maybe the eye refrence in Beast of 13 Eyes does mean A/LR, but it's just a coincidence that there seems to be alot of eyes dealing w/ the Falatacot/Burun? Hidden Caverns was put in quite a while ago. Although I don't like that idea either, really.

All I know is, my head's starting to hurt from it all. Let me go back to thinking it's Geraine. I like that better :)

Protes

08-11-2004, 07:09 AM

I am thinking that there are 3 main types of religious sects within the Falatacot society; Light, Darkness, and Shadow, and these three share a common practice and belief in Blood Magic.
The High Falatacot Priestesses is a group of Priestesses made up of representives from each type of religious sect. The High Falatacot Priestesses wished to explore other worlds from which their Old Ones had ruled. The Dark Sisters found a way to perform Planar Magic through Blood Magic rituals and open portals to other worlds. It was hoped that they would be able to learn the magics that exist on other worlds.

During their first expeditions to Bur, the Dark Sisters came in contact with a serpent like race called the Fiazhats. Having witnessed the magic the Dark sisters possessed the Fiazhats believe them to be gods and ask for assistance with their fight against the race called Buruns.
At this point in time, only the Ruuk were prevelant on the surface of Bur, the Kukuur and Guruk lived underground.
The Dark Sisters agreed to help the Fiazhats by showing them how to tap into the Blood Magic on Bur (leylines) and use it in their struggle against the Buruns. In exchange for teaching the Fiazhats new magics, some of the Fiazhats would be brought back to Dereth to become their servants.
The Dark Sisters would take their -Willing- male consorts and magically infuse them with the Fiazhats to create the Sclavus. Over time the Fiazhats built temples to worship their new gods, these were on sites where the Dark Sisters arrived at.

The Sclavus were brought back and given to the High Falatcot Priestesses to use as servants for their rituals. The Dark Sisters continued their expeditions to Bur, meddling further into the Blood Magic of that world.
The Fiazhats were winning their war against the Buruns.
The Followers of the Light were unhappy with what the Dark Sisters were doing on Bur. They wanted to undo the damage that the Dark Sisters had done so they began their own expeditions to Bur. The Followers of the Light brought back a creature called the Moars to Dereth. The Moars were transformed into Moarsmen, which there is 2 kinds - feral and tamed. They kept the tamed Moarsmen on Dereth and released the feral Moarsmen on Bur.

The feral Moarsmen were killing off both Fiazhats and Buruns, causing the Ruuk Buruns to flee below the surface. The Kukuur Buruns wanted to help put a stop to the onslaught brought on by the Fiazhats and feral Moarsmen so they sought after learning the magics that the Dark Sisters had taught the Fiazhats. With the combination of Blood Magics and the fungus, the Buruns were able to resurface and wage war against the Fiazhats.

On Dereth, the climate was changing. An Ice Age was nearing and the Falatacots society was migrating to the kingdom of Dericost. the Followers of the Light began to threaten The Dark Sisters at first were going to move to Bur but the Buruns by then were winning their war against the Fiazhats and the magic the Burun possessed was devasting.
Realizing that they had failed on Bur, they looked to their Old Ones for guidance. It was thus planned that they would do one last expedition to Bur then seal the portal shut. The Dark Sisters collected the specimens they needed then sealed the portals. A large collection of Fiazhats were brought back to make their "perfect" Sclavus. Once their servants were made, the Dark Sisters each sealed themselves shut within their temples on Dereth. They went into a sleeping state like their Old Ones only to be reawakened thousand of years later.

edit: I think the 3 Falatacot Priestesses that transformed Geraine into undead and taught him the Falatacot magics were representives from The Light, Darkness, and Shadow. They put aside their fued over Bur and made a plan to ensure their people would continue to live on another land. They hoped that through Geraine their people's culture and beliefs wouldn't become forever lost.

Cerulia

08-11-2004, 07:28 AM

I was under the impression that The Sleeping One was another name for the Old Ones... The Falatacot gods. They certainly [are sleeping anyway, although that's not the best proof since Geraine's sleeping too ^_~

I agree with Someguy1 though, all this almost certainly happened before Geraine's time... When he was taught the falatacot secrets, that was more or less the end of their civilisation as a distinct people, they were absorbed into Dericost culture and, as far as we know, disappeared. Of course, it's possible that not ALL of them left for gelidite lands I suppose... Maybe the ones we're hearing about on Bur are a splinter group who stayed behind? I still think it's unlikely that it would be Geraine though...

It's an interesting point about Aerbax though, I hadn't thought of that... Remember that he's been collecting samples of the Harbinger through us for a while now, and the Harbinger is possibly a juvenille old one (A young old one?). Even if he isn't actually one of the old ones, he was certainly created using Falatacot rituals and so he probably has some link... I had always just assumed Aerbax's tranformation was purely shadow related, something to do with this mutating 'Energy Source' he found on the caul. If he's mixing virindi, shadow *and* falatacot, that could be interesting ^_~

And annoyingly, he could be another One who's Sleeping at the moment. So we have Geraine sleeping, Aerbax... maybe sleeping, maybe just immobile, and the Old Ones sleeping. My money's still on The Sleeping One being an Old One, but I think I need to reread some of this stuff now that we have some more lore on it... Reading it as we found it was a little confusing because of all the new terminology ^_^

(I should note I haven't been following the lore too closely for the past couple of months because I've been unable to play, so I could be WAY off ^_^)

Orion

08-11-2004, 11:44 AM

Interesting discussion thus far. I think that Someguy is on to some interesting threads... Let's hope that there is a bit more that appears in the near future to help put the pieces together.

Rapton

08-11-2004, 11:55 AM

*Pulls old AC 1 manual out*

According to that manual the sclavus were mutations created by the empyream. If you look at the candeth keep quest with the strange sclavus, it hints that a man was turned into a sclavus by the falactacot.

Aziriphale

08-11-2004, 03:11 PM

The beast of 13 floating eyes. If I remember correctly there was debate about the old ones and the Slithis being chidren of the ancient ones or old ones. Everything had a sort of lovecraftian feel to it.

Well anyhow, this is how i picture they beast with 13 eyes.

http://palladiun.org/images/eyes.jpg

This is a quick sketch I did this morning, Will flesh it out more over the next week as i have time.

Cerulia

08-11-2004, 05:16 PM

Well, I decided to read through the lore again, and I made notes while I was doing it... These things are LONG though! Far too long to actually post on this forum, but I've put them up as an article on my allegiance's boards. If it's ok with Lenin, who runs it and pays for the bandwith, I'll post a link here.

I did come up with a couple of interesting things though...

First, it actually is possible The Sleeping One could be Geraine, the times seem to coincide - The Falatacot made their last trip to Bur as the ice age was drawing in, so Geraine could already have been taught the secrets of the Blood Magic.

The Falatacot blame the problems they're having on Bur (The victories of the Burun) on the completion of the betrayal by 'they who covet the breeze-talkers'. If the breeze-talkers are Falatacot, then while it's possible other groups envied their power, the only one we really know of for certain is the Dericost. Since the Falatacot had a deal with them, acting against them would be a betrayal.

In another text there's a mention of what is possibly the Empyreans ("within their alabaster towers"), but what could also be the Dericost. " They who tread now in the cold yet feel not the bite of frozen wastes" sounds a lot like the Gelidites (The original Dericost living on the frozen Gelid plateu, not the ones who made Frore on Dereth). "Chanting to ill-lords whose roots strangle the life from the masters and further the cause of the growing darkness that consumes flesh, fire and sun" could refer to the blood rituals which the Dericost were taught, but which they abused, using unwilling victims. Even if this doesn't have anything to do with the current storyline it's an interesting suggestion that maybe not all the Falatacot were happy with the deal they made with the Dericost.

Of course, those quotes could just as easily apply to the Empyreans, since they had spells to protect against cold and their magic drew on the mana streams as well. Certainly the Empyreans eventually hated the Falatacot's blood magic, but I'm not sure if they ever actually encountered them directly, or if it was just through the Dericost's use of the blood magic.

The thing with the Geraine theory is, it just doesn't quite seem to fit - If it is him, he can't be that old yet, certainly not as powerful as he's become. It's possible he had the power even then to do these things, but it seems a little tricky. Also, while the falatacot may have taught him the rituals for opening a portal to Bur, that's another problem - Why would he really bother? Perhaps he was trying to get rid of the remaining Falatacot so he'd have exclusive knowledge of the blood rituals (He does certainly seem interested in controlling access to Falatacot rituals from the citadel libraries), or maybe he was trying to get access to a loyal army, like the sclavus, but taken from the Burun instead. They're possible reasons, but they still don't quite sit right, they seem a little too long term for a relatively young undead...

A different theory about The Sleeping One is that he's an Old One like the ones the falatacot worship here, but against them for some reason. There's evidence for that too ^_~

Throughout one text, they refer to 'Sleepers', from the context referring to the Old Ones they worship. The name and whole concept of these sleepers is so similar to the burun's Sleeping One that I feel like they must be the same type of thing, but the burun's one is against the Falatacot... It could be they're not the same though, there's one quote:

"Woe be that day, when last the mired tunnel was opened.
Where we crossed with the twelve and the Mother,
saw atrocity given a new face, felt the burn
of acrid wind upon our flesh and saw the bloated
mass of a swamp thing drunk on power.
Seamless passage, hidden with arts, we fled."

This swamp thing seems to even scare the Falatacot, and they certainly don't seem to give it the same recognition as their own sleepers, they see it as an atrocity - Although of course, if one of your gods turned against you, maybe you would see it that way.

Another text gives more description of the Sleeping One. "And now we find that the magic we meant for our children has been used against them. Bloated, gluttonous, monstrosities devour the streams of the World's Blood". So apparently something is in the mana streams... Again though, it sounds a lot like an Old One. We know the Harbinger came from the mana streams for example. It could also be possible that it's not a true Old One, but a creature using the same source of power, and so it behaves in similar ways, sleeping, feeding from the mana streams, etc.

If it was some Bur equivalent of an old one, similar but different, that could explain some things, why it would help the Burun of its planet and not the Falatacot who should have a better relation with a true Old One. It would also explain why the Falatacot see it as an atrocity, if they see it as some twisted mockery of their own gods. Also, while the Burun always refer to a single Sleeping One, the Falatacot mention 'monstrosities', implying there are several, which is another thing in common with the Old Ones.

Another interesting thing (Maybe a little off topic) was that from the sounds of the texts on the Moarsmen, the Moarsmen were created on the Vesayan Islands and kept there exclusively, not allowed off. That would suggest that there's a temple on the Vesayans with a portal to Bur, since they needed a way to get the feral Moarsmen to Bur.

I'm sure there were other things but I can't remember at the moment, and I'm a little tired ^_^

Protes

08-11-2004, 05:34 PM

Hmm.. I was beginning to think the Dark Sisters have a connection with the Shadows since there's been a few of the Falatacots within the temples that are transparent. So I thought perhaps there might be something significant with there being 3 Falatacot Priestesses who went to Dericost.

Protes

08-11-2004, 05:51 PM

Wow great post Cerulia.

Cerulia

08-11-2004, 07:54 PM

Thank you Protes! ^_^

I remembered another couple of things:

Another explanation for the Sleeping One is that there is no Sleeping One, and it was all just made up by the Kukuur to keep the Ruuk in line... This is probably the least likely because, well, boring! It is possible though - The Ruuk were reluctant to go to war against the Fiazhat at first, until the legends of the Sleeping One convinced them. The Ruuk believe it's through the Sleeping One they can use magic, but they have to use various fungal products to do it also. They attribute the portal to Dereth opening to him, but we know that was us. And the monsters that the Falatacot fear could be Kukuur or Guruk that have been empowered by 'they who covet the breeze-talkers'. It's not likely, but there's no evidence that there IS a Sleeping One beyond the phrase "Bloated, gluttonous, monstrosities devour the streams of the World's Blood", and even that could just refer to the Burun using magic and drawing off the mana streams...

The other thing is, whatever the Sleeping One is, it seems like the Burun are just pawns in this whole thing. Someone activated that first temple before we ever started messing about in it, it somehow killed a settlement of mosswarts, using 'screams' and 'Mist rise from beneath feet', then sent out tendrils which are portal entrances.

Whoever brought out this temple was probably fully aware that we just can't resist running in places and touching stuff ^_~

Whoever raised the temple in the first place, they did so with the intent of using it to bring the burun here - I don't believe that was an accident. Ixir Zi, in the first temple, said from her sarcophagus "A weak voice sounds from within, "The temple lives again, but I do not control it. The flux is opened!"", so it seems like the Falatacot in the temples aren't trying to bring in the Burun (And why would they? They went to a LOT of trouble to make sure there could be no threat to them as they slept, using incorporeal guardians and the like)

Also, the portals only go one way, from Bur to Dereth. That seems like the opposite of the way the Falatacot would've wanted things, so it seems likely someone set it that way on purpose, whoever's controlling the temples presumably.

I suppose it could possibly be coincidence, that either Nuhmudira's use of very strong blood magic or her raising the temple to get the Living Tome triggered all the temples activating by accident, and then we just set the portals up from bur to dereth accidentally.

If we assume it was intentional though, I can think of three suspects for who activated the temple: The Sleeping One, Nuhmudira or some unknown Falatacot bad guy.

The Sleeping One is probably a bit of a weak candidate, the only reason to suspect it might be him is that the Ruuk believe it, and they seem to have been expecting the portal to open around this time, they thought it was 'The time of the revelations'. Even Torgluuk wasn't that convinced about it though, it seems like a lot of their belief was based on the fact that it had been cloudy for hundreds of years. Also, if the Sleeping One lives on Bur it might not be possible for him to activate falatacot temples on Dereth. Of course, it would help if we knew who or what he was ^_~

The unknown Falatacot enemy seems a bit more likely - We know for a fact there were Falatacot active even before the temples started appearing, because Gareth Dain was kidnapped and turned into a sclavus three years ago. There's also the evil laughter that came about after Nuhmudira left the Ancient Olthoi Queen's lair last year, after performing powerful Falatacot rituals. Obviously since the enemy isn't revealed yet there isn't a lot of supporting evidence, but it certainly seems like a good possibility. One point against it is that it seems a little too obvious...

The last suspect would be Nuhmudira. She was the most powerful Blood Magic user on Dereth (Or at least, as far as we know), she had extensive knowledge of Falatacot rituals, she had actually already raised a temple to get the living tome, she was pretty unhinged from the ritual against the olthoi queen, and she had just been shunned by the council when this all started. It's cliche of me to say but she had motive, method and opportunity (Groan, can't believe I said that ^_~).

The biggest argument against her is that, while her methods are pretty dire, she's always seemed to have the best interests of the Isparian people at heart. She'll murder, lie, cheat and steal, but she does so thinking that she's serving a higher purpose. Summoning an invasion force as revenge just doesn't seem like her style.

I can think of three counters to this though; First, she *was* pretty unstable after she controlled the ancient olthoi queen. Asheron didn't believe she'd ever recover, and what she did had shattered even the empyrean's minds. She could well be insane. She certainly seemed in control in the stories just after the event, but that doesn't mean that she was still thinking in the same high minded way.

Second, she could have been possesed somehow by an outside influence - The olthoi certainly had an influence for a short while, but it seems like she escaped that. The Falatacot would be the more obvious culprit (See Unknown Falatacot Baddie ^_~).

Third, she could be trying to set things up so she can save the day again, and that does sound more her style. If there's one thing Nuhmudira wants, it seems like it's for us to consider her a hero. This probably wouldn't be reason enough to go to the lengths she'd have to have gone for this, but combined with slight insanity and possible mental influence, it provides a way an affected nuhmudira could act in a way that's still within her character.

Sorry these posts are all so long! I guess it's been too long since I've thought about the lore, I've got all this stuff built up ^_^

Protes

08-11-2004, 08:41 PM

That's incredible! I love your explanation about the Sleeping One. A lot of the loose pieces are really starting to come together for me. I've had a hard time understanding various parts to it.

I never thought about a Falatacot enemy being behind all of the Buruns returning. But Nuhmudira attaining The Book of Blood might have been the way for the Falatacot enemy to corrupt Nuhmudira. Nuhmudira is obsessed with the book, and prior to her being captured by Gaerlan the book appeared to be controlling her thoughts.

Cerulia

08-11-2004, 08:58 PM

Thank you again! It's really nice of you to say ^_^

Certainly, Nummy's actions after the olthoi queen were pretty suspect - She was obviously influenced by the olthoi for a while, even speaking as the queen for a while, but it was after that the really suspicious stuff started to happen:

"As she begins speaking, her voice takes on the sound of hundreds of voices singing in perfect harmony and unison."

"The wounds on Nuhmudira's body begin to close. The caverns fill with the sound of voices, singing in perfect unity.
The singing begins to subside, though the voices can be heard, still echoing through the caves."

"Nuhmudira stumbles. "I must... I must..." Nuhmudira raises her voice and begins to sing a long high pitched note that reverberates off the walls of the hive. The note grows in intensity and swallows all other sound in the cavern. The language is unknown and the sound is melancholy, though eerily beautiful.

Nuhmudira leaves the final hive without flourish. As she disappears a fell voice begins a low, grim laughter that draws across the world. The laughter slowly dissipates and is swallowed by the sound of the wind. "

The singing could maybe be explained as just the multiple voices of the olthoi, but that's unlikely... So the big question is, was that all just part of the Ritus, or was there another force working even back then? The evil laugh is especially worrying ^_~

The big hole with the theory that she's possessed is that in the Reawakening stories on the Turbine site, she's very clearly not possessed... So if she was somehow, then either it began as a very weak control which allowed her to act normally without noticing it, but grew until months later it was able to use her to raise the temples, or it only controls her when it needs to and she doesn't even remember doing whatever it was afterwards.

Or she's actually not being controlled and her rituals just woke up some other Falatacot, or worried them enough that they decided to bring in Burun to take care of us.

Even that has a slight hole though because from all the lore it sounds like the last thing the Falatacot would want is Burun on Dereth, especially in their temples with their still sleeping Matriarchs...

It's all very confusing, let's hope we meet the big baddie this month - If he keeps on schedule we'll have to defeat him next month in time for the festivals! ^_^

Silifi Of Death

08-11-2004, 11:40 PM

Third, she could be trying to set things up so she can save the day again, and that does sound more her style. If there's one thing Nuhmudira wants, it seems like it's for us to consider her a hero. This probably wouldn't be reason enough to go to the lengths she'd have to have gone for this, but combined with slight insanity and possible mental influence, it provides a way an affected nuhmudira could act in a way that's still within her character.

That's most likely it. It's my opinion that she's in on this somehow, some way that we just can't see yet.

There's also that entire Finn Skigg thing that I've been trying to figure out. Perhaps the imposter is working for Nuhmudira?

Someguy1

08-12-2004, 12:29 AM

The new "Reports to Niraltah" are a gold mine of info on the Sleeping One. All the new lore makes me think the Sleeping One is a personalization of a celestial body. My interpretation of it is as follows:

Basically the burun's description of it makes it sound like well, God. They speak of the Sleeping One as something sentient with feelings and refer it as a he. It created the world, and all life on the world. In fact they say it created like 4 worlds but only 1 worked out and the other 3 were scrapped.

Apparently all this creating world's took a lot out of the Sleeping One who then went to sleep (leading me to wonder what it was called before that).

The Eye of the Sleeping One is without a doubt Bur's Sun this they mention it closing then the Burun are in the Dark. Also they mention the Sleeping One's brothers and sisters shining down on which in the dark I'd assume they are talking about stars. However they mention the Sleeping One opening its eyes (plural) meaning maybe 2 suns or perhaps its a typo.

The way they describe Bur makes it sound like the 3 other scrapped worlds are just floating around in space near Bur like some crazy version of our Mars.

The falatacot blotted out the Sleeping One with magics so it wasn't visible, another clue that it is a celestial body.

It seems the Fiahzat (most likely under Falatacot direction) built giant, tentacled eyes where the tunnels between Bur and Auberan are. Again with the eyes...

At some point a group of Burun started thinking of the Sleeping One as a blob of swampy matter but it says other burun continued to believe that its true form was a "watcher in the sky". Score another point for celestial body. BTW don't we have a comet called the Watcher that showed up when BZ was released? Probably a coincidence unless Bur is close to Auberan (like same solar system close). But that seems unlikely.

The falatacot say they were responsible for bringing magic to Bur while the burun credit the Sleeping one.

So the jury is still out but I'm leaning towards the Sleeping One being credited for a lot of things that happened naturally or is given credit for things other powers did (like the Falatacot).

Scenario

08-12-2004, 12:50 AM

Or she's actually not being controlled and her rituals just woke up some other Falatacot, or worried them enough that they decided to bring in Burun to take care of us.

Who was it that opened the first portals? *coughs and points at Rage Lao* :p

CountOrkin

08-12-2004, 01:00 AM

Guys lets keep in mind a few things. IMO Geraine's Dericost HAVE to either be behind, or strongly influential in what's going on atm. I'll point to a few different references.

First of all the Dericost were a main enemy of the Ancient Olthoi Queen. And after she fled they have been doing some sneaky stuff with the Olthoi that was never further expounded upon.(See Lich Oppressor's in Olthoi dungeons.)

See "Third Missive to the World Shaper"

"lt transpires as He has foretold. I am aware of your concerns over the outlanders, specifically the singer. I say this, listen not to the songs that are sung, for she calls without thought. She will not wake the sleepers and her limited understanding and capacity for the Art will restrict her.

If the sleepers do wake, we shall dispose of them as we had in the past. Our attention must rest upon the dark spawn, and their brood mind at the present.
Amauxi"

My theory, whatever force has been semi-controlling Nuhmudira as Orion has alluded to is directing her to awaken the Falatacot. The Dericost at one point betrayed the Falatacot and disposed of them to some extent via the Burun. Geraine IS "The Sleeping One" as he can envision the future and would know aproximately when the Burun would need to be ready to assault the Falatacot again.

Secondly, in AC2 the Burun are again allied with the Dericost.

Now, in the "Fifth Missive of the World Shaper" we see this:

"World Shaper,
The brood mind has left the scope of our vision. The dark spawn abandoned to their own are proving to be a negligible distraction. We continue to fashion the devices that you have asked we create and provide them to you now. As you have agreed, so it must be done. He thanks you for your sacrifice and asks that the process to close the deep places of this world commence.
Amauxi"

Who is the world shaper and why does he need the alloy parts we're providing him? It's obviously not Geraine so this leads me to believe that the Undead are in league with somebody, possibly Aerbax or Ler Rhan.

CountOrkin

08-12-2004, 01:13 AM

To expound further on my theory. The Falatacot came to the Dericost to seek refuge not only from the cold but from the Burun. Geraine kept them for a while, long enough to learn their secrets, and then "betrayed" them by joining forces with the Burun against them and the Sclavus.

Protes

08-12-2004, 03:38 AM

Cerulia -

Early on I was suspecting Nuhmudira was somehow connected to all of this :)

I found it quite interesting in The Reign of Terror teaser with Aerfalle and Rytheran and they call her The Singer. There is was a reference in recent lore about the Dark Sister not awakening till the Singers call out to their servants to wake them.

In the same teaser, Amauxi talks about Geraine and his request for the Winds of Darkness to help the Isparians fight off the Olthoi Insurgence.

"We had thought Amauxi fallen during the second sending. Had His Eternal Splendor seen so far into the future to hide him even then? And what of the sacrifices made while the outlanders did our bidding without coaxing? Had he foreseen the end of the fourth sending at their hand?

"Had he expected that this horde, with the guidance of the last child of the Yalain, would succeed?" Rytheran asked as they resumed their walk down the ancient hallway. "They are whelps, barely capable of channeling the art."

"All, that is, but one." Aerfalle smirked. "She stirs the things that sleep, and I can sense your elation growing. You think her singing will stir the Old Ones."

"'Tis true. I hold hope still that their voices will rise again. But as the dark spawn grow more powerful, loosed from their deepest trenches to walk the world again, I fear for Killiakta. The singer knows little of what she does, and what knowledge we have of the entity of energy and his delving only yields supposition that one of the K—"

"No…the sendings cannot be this close." Aerfalle placed her hand on a door, crafted millennia before, and it opened without sound.

.... Amauxi talking later on
"For millennia I have stood watch, and kept secret the resting place of the King. Now he begs me come to all and begin discourse. The outlanders draw too near failure, and this incursion of the Olthoi is one he had not foreseen. The heavens are confused and muddled, and singers whose voices have long been silenced are raised in a chorale that nothing hears. The last child of Yalain is paralyzed, and our eyes upon him have gone blind. Beloved Killiakta draws nearer to destruction than she has ever been before."

edit: Is it possible that the Sleeping One is a Kemori, and the source of energy that Aerbax and Ler Rhan are after?

Protes

08-12-2004, 04:58 AM

"If the sleepers do wake, we shall dispose of them as we had in the past."

That does seem to indicate the Dericost (at least the Winds of Darkness) had in the past an encounter with the Dark Sisters and is one of the reasons why they sealed themselves shut inside their temples. However there are events that occurred with the Sleeping One which took place before Geraine came into contact. After reading the Report to Niraltah and rereading some of the recent lore tonight, I think Someguy is right about Geriane not being the Sleeping One.

CountOrkin

08-12-2004, 05:57 AM

Wow I think I might have hit a goldmine here:

From "The Tome of the Elements" written by Gaerlan:

Speaking of the Falatacot:

"There in the darkness, they sequestered tomes of inordinate power and enacted rites of the most foul and bloody persuasion. Killing to them was another form of seeing that life continued and their rites increased the power of their preistesses to a point that none save, their darkest lord could comprehend.

Sects began forming within, small splinter factions that studied the aspects of the Blood of the World and called back to the voice that beckoned them. Others moved further into the shadow, heeding the dark call of the darkness made whole, flocking to the one who shall not be named.

Others studied the arts of creation and formation. Some studied arts of mechanism and toil. But all studied within the darkness and the reach of that voice. Then when their veil was pierced and their world came under the mighty foot of their oppressors, their tomes, and their arts fell dormant. Lost to time and given over to destruction and the call of entropy."

^This is important.

"Some have speculated that the only ones who would know the truths of the Falatacot were driven from this world long ago. They flew into seclusion or were hunted by the remnants of the Falatacot/Dericost in the time of the one that shall remain unnamed."

If I am reading this correctly, certain Falatacot sects became hunted by the Dericost.

"But there is another race that has lived as long as the Old Ones . But they are dormant now, speaking only when their prophecy might have meaning to those that will listen. Another voice, from beyond. Fed by the Blood of the World but not of the Blood of the World."

Ding ding ding! Does that not sound like what we are dealing with now?

Protes

08-12-2004, 07:04 AM

Heck yeah you guys both found goldmines, lol.

I guess maybe I was somewhat right about there being 3 sects to the Falatacots -

"Others moved further into the shadow, heeding the dark call of the darkness made whole, flocking to the one who shall not be named.
Others studied the arts of creation and formation. Some studied arts of mechanism and toil. But all studied within the darkness and the reach of that voice."

There was some text that I did took into meaning that there were more than just the Light and Dark Falatacots. In Jexki Ki's Journal there's the following -
"One final ritus, one final gift before we slumber
as our lords, beneath the world,
in temples of obsidian and blood.
Darkness has churned the war against the shadow,
the shadow has churned the war against the Darkness,
and in their folly they have opened the way for Light."

It's also mentioned in Ibrexi Jikti's Journal -
"One final ritus, one final gift before we slumber
as our lords beneath the world,
in temples of obsidian and blood.
Darkness has churned the war against the shadow,
the shadow has churned the war against the Darkness,
and Light has fallen 'neath Darkness's sway."

I was reading this as an overall summary of what took place between 3 different types of Falatacots.

Also I was thinking about Ignae Fatae - school of illusiary magic. I came across that a few weeks back on the CoD site when I was reading up on the lore. I was assuming that the Falatacots were using this same school of magic while on Bur.

Ignae Fatae - In their expeditions to other worlds through portal magic, the Empyrean occasionally revealed themselves to other races (as in the case of the Tonk), but for the most part they desired to remain hidden. To that end they utilized a school of magic called "Ignae Fatae", or illusion, to conceal themselves under "flesh glamours" (magical illusions that gave them the appearance of a given world's native life) or render themselves completely invisible. Through the use of these arts, the Empyrean were able to observe other creatures without directly interfering with their development and, perhaps more importantly, frightening those creatures into attacking.
(link - http://ac.warcry.com/lore/encyclopedia/index.php?action=display&id=427)

In the Report to Niraltah (pt 5), the Falatacots appear to be using this form of magic during their explorations on Bur. It wasn't until Ixir Zi's last expedition to Bur that the Falatacots finally revealed themselves to the Fiazhats living on Bur.

* "They blotted The Sleeping One from the sky with fell arts. Halo's of blue light radiated about their forms and voices shrill and cruel sang loud across the wasted, burning lands.
Come. Come. The false gods begged of the Fiazhat. But Fiazhar brothers could not see the lithe forms whose delicate faces were filled with wrath. Only the mucor saw the truth and saw these forms, heard their songs and felt their passage. So it was that the Burun knew of these beings, these false ones."

* "Mucor witness the arrival of the false ones wreathed in white light. They make their way into the swamp and take a handful of the moar after witnessing the destructive force of the Burun."

* "Within cycles of one another the false ones wreathed in blue light return, but their forms are gaunter and they exude a palpable madness. They arrive and make themselves known to the Fiazhat. Heroes of the Fiazhat are drawn, slithering through tunnels of gray and violet mist at six different places across Bur."

It looks like there is a distinct difference between each of these 3 visits by the Falatacots to Bur -
1) Halo's of blue light radiated
2) wreathed in white light
3) wreathed in blue light return, but their forms are gaunter and they exude a palpable madness.

Oh, one last thing in Report to Niraltah. It's told there are 6 of these Falatacot Temples on Bur so there's at least 3 more temples yet to be unearthed on Dereth.

"The false gods disappear from the world and the Fiazhat who are left behind fall into a time of fear. They build six grand temples in the locations where their gods have made their presence known."

~~

Unfortunately when it comes to stuff about Geraine, the Old Ones, the Nameless One, and other background lore I don't know that much about it.
I will need to do some more reading to understand a little more about what you're talking about at the later part of your post CountOrkin.

Liaya

08-12-2004, 08:02 AM

Who was it that opened the first portals? *coughs and points at Rage Lao* :p

Hee hee. Poor Rage. Reminds of that guy that caught that baseball...

Protes

08-12-2004, 08:16 AM

There's a new NPC on the Aerlinthe quest named Ghost of Galaeral. Sounds like Galaeral is a Falatacot.

Ghost of Galaeral tells you, "The songs of my sisters echo across eternity and I am left to rot; bound through the arts of ill-wind taught by sisters who had fallen to the call of the twisted dark. Thousands of years bound against my will to a tether not of my making, bereft of power and ability to purchase a final release, I have waited and watched within the walls of this prison."
Ghost of Galaeral tells you, "The skein of her life now draws taut as she is stirred to action, re-exerting her command over these halls and drawing on the lives of those she once imprisoned. Through the countless years, most that were bound here against their will have become lost and slipped into madness, the echo of their lives now scattered dust and formless agony. Not I."
Ghost of Galaeral tells you, "I recall the device, the tool used to pull the blood of my heart into a vessel that held my precious vitae long enough to rip free my soul and lock it within the walls of this keep, evermore a servant to her will. But my years of servitude draw near an end, and through the voices of elder sisters who sang to the deep and refused to sell our secrets to the Dericost I am given a moment of clarity to find my freedom. Yet the walls ever remain my prison."
Ghost of Galaeral tells you, "Aerfalle has changed. She has grown her flesh anew and taken the glamour of her youth. But all this imagery is false. She risks more power at the cost of those bound in these halls. My fallen sisters seek not redemption, but through their folly they will give me mine. Aerfalle's strength lies in tunnels long crushed by the weight of time, halls within this keep that you cannot traverse, halls which I can still travel."
Ghost of Galaeral tells you, "But I cannot lessen her strength without an instrument of sacrifice. The blade that drew my heart's blood must be used to stab at her crusted heart and weaken her strength."
Ghost of Galaeral tells you, "Bring me the dagger and I shall take my revenge and aid you in her destruction."
You give Ghost of Galaeral Sacrificial Dagger.
A haunting voice echoes in the halls of the Keep. "Light is not lost on this world yet. I shall enact my part of this bargain, outlander. Seek vengeance for the countless years, the suffering and the agony of those she has destroyed. Blessings of Ithaenc go with you."

Cerulia

08-12-2004, 09:25 AM

Wow, those reports really are helpful! From those it does sound more like the theory I thought was least likely is actually most likely, that the Sleeping One is the Burun's god but not an actual entity. I don't think Geraine is the Sleeping One, but that doesn't mean he's not influencing things... After all, the Burun seem to attribute most things to The Sleeping One regardless.

It sounds like some time in the past, the Falatacot fed mana into the mana streams of Bur somehow, probably to try to give the Fiazhat more power in an attempt to make better Sclavus. Because there's more mana in the world, the burun and moars develop new magical powers, and attribute it to the Sleeping One.

However, there's something not mentioned at all in the reports; When the Falatacot return to Bur to find the Burun using magic and defeating the Fiazhat, they say "The betrayal of 'they who covet the breeze-talkers' is complete at last.", which makes it sound like it wasn't just the natural rise in mana that gave the Burun their powers.

If 'they who covet the breeze-talkers' means the Dericost (Which I think makes sense), then perhaps Geraine did have a hand in things without the Burun even knowing. It could also just mean that with this new setback, the Dericost betraying the Falatacot who left is the final straw that will doom them.

I do disagree with you on a couple of points though LordOrkin ^_^

First, I don't think Geraine used the Burun to get rid of the Falatacot directly... He might have meddled with things on Bur to get rid of the Fiazhat, but I don't think the Falatacot were ever actually attacked by the Burun.

Second, "And after she fled they have been doing some sneaky stuff with the Olthoi that was never further expounded upon.", I was under the impression that those undead were just sealing up the tunnels she left down - And most likely sealing up some tunnels that came close enough to undead strongholds to get the undead involved in the first place.

The World Shaper is one of the primogenitor undead, one of the first, he's using the alloy machines we provided parts for... It's implied to seal the tunnels, although he could have some other nefarious purposes as well...

I do agree with you that the Dericost must have betrayed the Falatacot in the past - I think the assumption was always that the Falatacot disappeared because they were just absorbed into Dericostian society and forgot their own culture, but it seems more likely now that they were killed by the Dericost. They were most likely betrayed so they couldn't tell anyone else the secrets of Blood Magic, leaving Geraine as the only person in the world with a full knowledge of it.

His betrayal could also have stretched to Bur, if the Dericost are 'they who covet the breeze-talkers'... Maybe by helping the Burun secretely, he was able to cut off Bur as a possible escape and also end their attempts to make an improved Sclavus...

Protes - "What knowledge we have of the entity of energy and his delving only yields supposition that one of the K—", that's a really interesting quote... The 'entity of energy' is most likely Aerbax, so it does seem quite likely that the energy source is Kemori (Unfortunately I don't really know anything about those guys except that they have something to do with the shadows ^_^).

"But there is another race that has lived as long as the Old Ones . But they are dormant now, speaking only when their prophecy might have meaning to those that will listen. Another voice, from beyond. Fed by the Blood of the World but not of the Blood of the World."

Is that not the Kemori in fact? (I keep wanting to spell it Kemeroi, don't ask why ^_^)

There are a couple of irrelevant things that I'm really curious about though - Just what is up with the Bur solar system? From the sounds of it they had 3 moons (The offcast Burs in the reports), but one of them broke up and showered the planet with meteors. But what I can't understand is what's going on with their sun... It sounds like it's been blinking on and off since the creation of the world! Hmm... maybe 'blinking furiuosly' is just day and night cycles, and the long periods where there's no light are either magic (From the falatacot), or ash cover from the meteor impacts, or just really really long lasting cloud systems. It's all a bit odd though ^_^

Also, what exactly IS mucor? It sounds like it's a fungus, and it somehow directly relates to the burun's sanity, magic ability and knowledge of the past...

Cai

08-12-2004, 01:34 PM

It is kemeroi.

Taken from Aerfalle's letter:

Translator's note: There is a word early in this text which defies easy conversion from Dericostian to Roulean. This I have rendered as "kemeroi," a direct phonetic equivalent of the original word. Established lore has shown me this word used to describe an unprecedented number of circumstances, most of which are contradictory. By turns, kemeroi is used to express the concepts of stillborn offspring, unwelcome emissary, unseen or stealthy movement, corrupter or tempter, nightmare, madness or terrifying hallucination, unbidden thought, parasite, scream uttered at awakening from a nightmare, thing that causes melting, liquid given form by a vessel, the touch of something frozen, and night that moves as a liquid.

The latter few of these many meanings are the most curious, as kemeroi is not a word of the so-called "Great Tongue" of Dericost, but rather the Base Tongue. The Great Tongue, with roots in the archaic dialect of the Falatacot, was used by the artisans as well as the aristocracy (and for that reason some of its words came into use by the Yalaini intelligencia).

This, I feel, implies that descriptions such as "liquid night" are not merely poetic license, but literal description. At any rate, the context here seemed to indicate use of the word as a proper name. Of the definitions cited above, perhaps "unwelcome emissary" would work best.
- Kuyiza bint Zayi

I have always interpreted kemeroi as the higher power of darkness that corrupted Avoren. A possible problem is that later in the letter Aerfalle refers to the kemeroi in plural: "Fortunately, the Kemeroi still sleep. Should they appear again, I think the dark ones would cease to toy with the outlander hoard that vexes Killiakta. They would quickly be absorbed." It might be a pecularity of translation.

Perhaps kemeroi is a reference to Old Ones, or to a subset/sect of them.

I hope I'm not confusing things further.

Cai

EvilElvis

08-12-2004, 01:40 PM

After reading the new lore, I'm pretty sure The Sleeping One must be an Old One.

The Burun believe that not only did TSO create Bur, but also the life on bur. There's only 2 entities that we know of with this kind of power. The Old Ones, and The Great Master. The motif doesn't fit TGM at all. He's not really a creator of life, so much as a corruptor and destroyer of it. Plus, the Falatacot worship The Old Ones, and the swamp theme fits them well. There's also old lore that says the Old Ones had the power to create the stars.

So, an Old One is probably The Sleeping One. He creates Bur. He almost seems to gain power and knowledge from the swamp.

Now, the Falatacot. Previously, I thought them to be akin to an Amazonian race, where the woman have a higher social standing, and are raised as priestesses. That doesn't seem to make much sense with what we now know.

It seems that there are probably very few Falatacot Priestesses. Maybe as few as 3. Does the refrence "Dark Sisters" refer to all priestesses? If there's only a few, it seems likely.

The Followers of Light may be another faction of the Falatacot. One that is more adherent to the ways of The Sleeping Ones.

Now, the Falatacot went to Bur intentionally. They must have. The question is, why? There may have been different motivations. If the Followers of Light are Falatacot, they may have wanted to be closer to an Old One, or to observe what he was doing. However, the dark sisters motivations might not have been so pure. They may have been seeking power for themselves. Even if it meant meddling in the Old One's affairs. Their messing with the magics of the world may have been an attempt to gain more understanding of their magics, to increase their own power.

Cerulia

08-12-2004, 02:51 PM

Ah, thanks cai ^_^

I agree that it seems like they're probably the ones who originally corrupted BZ, and probably this quote from LordOrkin refers to them as well:

"But there is another race that has lived as long as the Old Ones . But they are dormant now, speaking only when their prophecy might have meaning to those that will listen. Another voice, from beyond. Fed by the Blood of the World but not of the Blood of the World."

There's no direct evidence that it's referring to the Kemeroi, but it does seem to fit...

Elvis, I'm not sure the Sleeping One really did create Bur... The story sounds a lot like an archetypal creation myth. Also, referring to the sun as his eye, and explaining the moons as failed attempts at creating the planet sound a lot like a mythology the burun created, not references to an actual being...

But I agree that if the Sleeping One really is an actual creature, he almost has to be an Old One, if only because of his age...

Here's another theory; What if the swamps of Bur are somehow sentient? The mucor seems to grant burun memories and power, and without it they become weak and even insane. With it they grow huge and strong and are filled with mana.

The burun's fortunes in the war on the Fiazhat seemed to vary as the swamps grew and shrunk (Although this could just be because they don't do very well outside the swamps, and the fiazhat don't do well within them). All the burun shamans seem to need to eat mucor and have it growing on them as well.

Also, throughout the reports they refer to the mucor not as just a plant that enables them to use magic, but they refer to it like a sentient being, their link with the Sleeping One. They talk about it being able to see things, and knowing things, and reporting things...

Torgluuk said he could feel the Sleeping One's prescence on Dereth (Which of course would apply to Geraine and even the Old Ones too), but the burun swamps that are appearing on this planet and growing could be filled with mucor.

It's not that likely but it's an interesting thought, the Sleeping One could be the mucor itself ^_^

As for Falatacot priestesses, there were at least 13 powerful Dark Sisters mentioned in the journal of Ibrexi Jikti; Ixir Zi is the leader of them, but it talks about 'Ixir Zi and the twelve', and those are just the ones who stayed behind when most of the Falatacot went to Dericost - I suspect there were more before then.

And of course there's the followers of Light as well, who I suspect must be linked to the Adjanites somehow, probably Adja was a follower of their teachings (Though it's just a guess, I'm not sure there's any evidence?).

As for why the Falatacot went to Bur in the first place, in Kixti Xri's journal it describes the portal being opened... It sounds like part exploration, part conquest, partly something to do with this War of Hate and part missionary work. They went "To bring back sustenance in this time of wicked cold".

Actually, they use the plural 'worlds' throughout, and in the teaser for Across the Vast Divide there's a quote from Asheron saying:

“In the course of our travels to other worlds, it has become apparent that we are not the only entities that are aware of the place that exists between these worlds. It can be theorized that we are not the first race to pass through these portal wells, nor will we be the last.”

So it sounds like Bur isn't the only planet the Falatacot have visited...

EvilElvis

08-12-2004, 06:05 PM

I didn't say TSO created Bur, I said the Burun believe he did :) But I keep getting lost in the lore. There's so much, I go one way with it, and then it seems to contradict something somewhere which I've forgotten about.

Alot of things aren't really clear to me. Are the ones who worship the breeze-talkers the Burun themselves, or someone else, perhaps other Falatacot?

The Falatacot know the Sclavus were created by the Old Ones. And the Burun call the Sclavus their cousins. Yet, both seem to believe the other one believes in a different god(s). Wouldn't the mana-infused mucor show them that they actually believe in the same god, if that was the case? Is one of them being tricked (Burun would be the most likely if that's the case)?

The Falatacot say they have to go to other worlds for sustenance, and to spread the knowledge of their gods. Maybe even by extending their gods influence to those worlds. If the Burun/Falatacot gods are the same, were they on Bur before, or did the Falatacot bring them there?

Are there different sects of Falatacot? Most of the lore suggests an Amazonian-like race, in which the Priestesses are of the highest order. Is it possible the Followers of the Light are Falatacot as well?

Who are the breeze-talkers? Shadows, Virindi... Kemeroi?

Maybe Protos is right on this. Kemeroi are described as being fluidic, as causing hallucinations, and as being a deceiver (although, so have the Falatacot). The Kemeroi could be tricking the Burun and warping the truth, making them think they are the faithful. Or, maybe The Sleeping One is actually a Kemeroi, althought that doesn't quite jive with what the 2 sides are saying, suggesting that a Kemeroi god would be lying to them at least somewhat. Perhaps the reasoning for all this is for the Burun to spread their blight. It might be in this way that the Kemeroi are able to feed on more of the world mana.

Cerulia

08-12-2004, 08:16 PM

Arg! I can never seem to stay logged in for more than a minute, and never long enough to post... Lost another long winded one (I really am going on a lot aren't I? Sorry about that ^_^)

"The Falatacot know the Sclavus were created by the Old Ones."

Actually the Sclavus are created by the Falatacot, they're the combination of a willing sterile Falatacot male and a Fiazhat from Bur (Well, several males to one Fiazhat, but that's not important ^_^)

"And the Burun call the Sclavus their cousins."

It's actually the Fiazhat who they think of as cousins, the Burun and the Fiazhat were the two sentient species on Bur. I know it's confusing though, because they also refer to Sclavus as Fiazhat. It's just because they aren't differentiating between the original Fiazhat and the sort of improved version of them that's the Sclavus, they do the same thing with Moars and Moarsmen.

"Yet, both seem to believe the other one believes in a different god(s)."

The Burun worship The Sleeping One, and the Fiazhat worship the Falatacot themselves, believing them to be gods. The reason they don't worship the same one is...

"Wouldn't the mana-infused mucor show them that they actually believe in the same god, if that was the case?"

... Because the Fiazhat prefer the dry arid areas of their world, but the mucor which seems to transmit the Burun's knowledge of the Sleeping One grows in the swamps, so the Fiazhat were never exposed to it and never started worshipping the Sleeping One.

"Is one of them being tricked (Burun would be the most likely if that's the case)?"

Well, I suppose the Fiazhat are being tricked - The Falatacot are letting them believe they're gods. Also, the Falatacot use illusions when they go to Bur (The mucor either allows the Burun to see through these or sees through them itself and then tells the Burun about it). Also, the Falatacot take Fiazhats to make into Sclavus (Which kills the Fiazhat in a pretty painful and gruesome way by the way), but let the Fiazhat think that they are going to live among the gods, basically that they're going to heaven.

"Are there different sects of Falatacot?"

We know of the Dark Sisters (Who first went to Bur and created the Sclavus, and it's their temples we're tromping around in at the moment) and the followers of Light (Who oppose the Dark Sister's meddling on Bur and created the Moarsmen to try to balance it, and probably have some links to the Adjanites). Also, as CountOrkin found in the Tome of the Elements, there were many other sects:

"Sects began forming within, small splinter factions that studied the aspects of the Blood of the World and called back to the voice that beckoned them. Others moved further into the shadow, heeding the dark call of the darkness made whole, flocking to the one who shall not be named."

Including some apparently who were followers of BZ (At least, that's who I think Gaerlan is referring to as 'the one who shall not be named.').

"Who are the breeze-talkers? Shadows, Virindi... Kemeroi?"

I'd love to know myself ^_~

I think the breeze-talkers are Falatacot, and 'the ones who covet the breeze-talkers' are Dericost, but it's purely a guess. We know that the coveters betrayed the Falatacot somehow, and in my mind it makes sense that the covetters would betray the ones they... covet. Um, which would be the Falatacot who were betrayed. Maybe not great logic there ^_^

Also, the Falatacot don't seem to refer to themselves as breeze-talkers anywhere else, so it seems odd they would use that to mean themselves in a name... Who knows ^_^

"Or, maybe The Sleeping One is actually a Kemeroi"

That's possible actually, hadn't thought of that! The falatacot certainly seem to be scared of the Burun's new powers, which would make sense if something as old and powerful as their gods were behind it. Also, they mention abominations in Bur's mana streams, and the kemeroi seem to draw power from those.

Another thing is that from what we've seen of shadow creatures and Aerbax's experiments (If they really are linked to the kemeroi), they twist and change life - And the Burun are certainly changed. In fact, the odd exploding Kukuur sounds a lot like some of Aerbax's failed experiments, so maybe the energy source he's using is the same as the Burun's Sleeping One (If it is I doubt he's aware of it though, I don't think he has anything to do with Bur)

I still kind of like the 'Mucor as the Sleeping One' theory... It's probably wrong, but I like the idea that the big bad guy is an intelligent swamp growing fungus ^_^

By the way, if I've been coming across as kind of know-it-all-ey on this thread, I'm really sorry for that... I'm honestly not all that great at the lore, I'm interested but there are lots of people who know more than me. It's just when I get started trying to work these things out I'll go on and on and on (As you can see ^_~). Anyway, if I'm being too longwinded or getting things wrong or just being annoying, please tell me to shut up ^_^

EvilElvis

08-12-2004, 09:59 PM

"Actually the Sclavus are created by the Falatacot"

I know. I meant Fiazhat. Same as when I said the Burun thought of them as cousins. Ya shoulda been able to figure out that's what I meant :)

"Because the Fiazhat prefer the dry arid areas of their world, but the mucor which seems to transmit the Burun's knowledge of the Sleeping One grows in the swamps, so the Fiazhat were never exposed to it and never started worshipping the Sleeping One."

What I'm saying is, If the Buruns Sleeping One is an Old One, than that would be the same as the Falatacots gods, whom the Sclavus serve. I know the Fiazhat/Sclavus didn't drink the mucor. The point I'm trying to make is, if the Sleeping One is an Old One, why would the Burun and Falatacot be at war with one another? Either [some of] the Falatacot would have to have alterior motives (Ixir Zi's journal doesn't make that sound like the case), or the Burun are being tricked.

"The Falatacot are letting them believe they're gods."

No. In one of the tomes, they said directly to a Fiazhat that they weren't gods. They were created to serve, and probably would anyway, since they're actually transformed Falatacot, not transformed Fiazhat, to be technical. They don't really have to convince them.

"We know of the Dark Sisters (Who first went to Bur and created the Sclavus, and it's their temples we're tromping around in at the moment) and the followers of Light"

Not 100% sure that the followers are Falatacot. It seems like they could be though. And, I'd have to check, but while Adja had Falatacot blood and knowledge, I don't believe the Adjanites were Falatacot.

As for the other sects they in the Tome of Elements... yeah, I saw that. But it sounds like they were small groups that didn't have alot of influence.

"The one who shall not be named"

99% sure that's The Great Master. They didn't fear BZ like they did TGM. I'm not even sure if Illservian had been turned into the hopeslayer at this point.

"I think the breeze-talkers are Falatacot,"

I don't see how that's the case, since Ixir Zi specifically talks about the breeze-talkers. It would have to be a very specific group of Falatacot. I don't think that's the case. I think by betrayers, Ixir is refering to how the burun were once children of the Old Ones, but have turned their back on their gods, and their cousins (fiazhat). But he could be refering to an outside group which is directly responsible for what's happened on Bur, and to the Burun.

Orion

08-13-2004, 12:59 AM

Lots of interesting theories here. In fact, there are some theories that are spot on! Some that are so close I was rooting for you as I read the phrasing and then was crestfallen when you nearly had all the pieces lined up only to see them topple apart again.

You should all review the timeline again. Remember that there was a massive stretch of time that is 'unrecorded' history. :p

Keep talking, you are getting there!

CountOrkin

08-13-2004, 02:58 AM

Okay Orion, brace yourself. I'm gonna give this another shot. Based on the words of the Ghost of Galaeral.

There are FOUR primary factions of Falatacot all at work here. The Falatacot of the twisted darkness are the Dericost allied Falatacot. I base this on this statement by the ghost:

""The songs of my sisters echo across eternity and I am left to rot; bound through the arts of ill-wind taught by sisters who had fallen to the call of the twisted dark."

Now we know Galaeral is an Adjanite Priestess and she refers to the Dericost Falatacot as her "sisters". Thus the second group of Falatacot, those of the "light" are Yalain allied Falatacot, or more specifically Adja allied.

The third group are Shadow allied Falatacot. I am basing this on the verses in the Elemental Tome which state that certain Falatacot flock to the one who shall not be named. Also the teaser image for this patch which shows a dead Mosswart next to a shadow(has anyone found this IG yet?). This leads me to believe the Shadows are the ones who have been killing the Mosswarts to make way for the Burun.

The fourth group are the 12 sisters of whom I can only guess are allied to whatever it is that is at least partially controlling Nuhmudira.

Now with this understand of Darkness, Shadow, Light, and None of The Above we can read this statement in "Ibrexi Jikti's Journal":

"Darkness has churned the war against the shadow, the shadow has churned the war against the Darkness, and Light has fallen 'neath Darkness's sway."

Light has fallen neath Darkness's sway = Adjanite Priestesses now under the control of Aerfalle ala Galaeral.

In "Kixkti Xri's Journal" we see:

"Darkness shall yield once again to the sisters sent
to control it at the dawn of all there is.
You shall be that army, one life given across twenty; "

Now this is something nutty. But if the meaning of Darkness remains consistant in their speech, this would put them adverse to the Dericost, something that seems to be supported by Amauxi's writings.

In the same text:

"You are my servants, servants to my sisters,
servants of the Falatacot, first amongst the highest host;
undying, obedient, and perfect, sclavi*."

Apparently Ixir Zi takes the attitude that the Falatacot are the Supreme Empyrean. Her faction looks upon the Dericost, Yalain, and Habrous Empyreans the same way that Geraine looks upon us.

My best guess? I have no clue :) I think the "Twisted Darkness" aka Geraine and company are allied with "The World Shaper" which IMO is a Shadow(Probably Ler Rhan) and are trying to use the Burun to cut off something that Ixir Zi's priestesses are going to do if they wake up.

Chupon

08-13-2004, 02:58 AM

I'm almost positive Nuhmudira has a link with the falatacot. Either she is being controlled by a priestess or (and this is a stretch) she is a falatacot priestess herself, perhaps suffering multiple personality disorder.

Few things that point to it.

First, is her connection to the sclavus. IIRC they were the ones who saved her when Gaerlan imprisoned her. If she has a link to the falatacot, it would stand to reason that the sclavus would try to protect their "god" or anyone asssociated with them.

Second, would be after and during the vanquishing of the olthoi queen. As said above, she had the power to raise the Ancient temple so we could retrieve the living tome for her. Having this book she now had both falatacot books as well as all the items needed to complete the Ritus. After her link with the queen was made is where her sanity starts to wane.

During the food store poisoning of the nests we had this.

"Nuhmudira's voice carries on the wind, shrill, alien and wholly not her own. "The last food storage, I have found it. Go through the portal and do what must be done. We have earned her ire and she draws near.""

At the very end of the exchange we get this.

"Nuhmudira leaves the final hive without flourish. As she disappears a fell voice begins a low, grim laughter that draws across the world. The laughter slowly dissipates and is swallowed by the sound of the wind. "

The key being the sound of the wind, which leads me to the next point. As said above the breeze talkers are linked with the falatacot in some fashion, or may be the falatacot themselves.

She also clearly has special abilities and a knack for learning things faster and an incredible tolerance of pain. It's clear she is not 100% human anymore, if she ever was. Remember she has the ability to speak with animals. Perhaps she is being controlled for this reason, she already has inherant special abilities which far surpass any normal human's.

--

I'm probably way off with my theories but the bottom line I want to get across is I just can't shake her connection with the falatacot.

Someguy1

08-13-2004, 03:41 AM

I do love these topics like this about that which is unknown. When I read lore I don't really care so much about the story being told as much as I look for clues stories we don't understand completely yet. That's why I loved the 4 Sending Event, every bit of information was part of a puzzle and you had to put it all together to understand the story. This has the same feeling...

All the pieces will no doubt make make when we figure it out but right now we are a few cards short of a full deck. Usually most story arcs have a set up in the previous arc which as far as I can see that wasn't the case this time. The temples opened and that was that.

There is an interesting quote I wanted to bring up:

"You will stand beside giants who rival the strength of the Guruk,
you will walk with beings of cunning near that of the Ruuk.
and you will sup with a race of beings whose avarice is unmatched,
even by the Kukuur.
I have seen one other that will stand beside but its image is unclear.
Its purpose is very clear, to be the Eye for all the worlds."

With all this eye business I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the Beast of Thirteen Floating Eyes is involved with this whole mess somehow. Who is the one who wants to the Eye for all the worlds"? Aerbax? Ler Rhan? The Energy Source/BoTFE itself?

Strange thing is the Burun have absolutely nothing to do with anything except for the fact they want to kill everything. The burun have nothing to do with the Falatacot or talk about anything that remotely resembles the energy source or BoTFE.

Maybe its just too late to make connections lol

Cerulia

08-13-2004, 11:03 AM

EvilElvis - I'm very sorry, I did misunderstand you completely, it was about 1am here when I wrote that, and then I lost it and had to rewrite it, so my brain wasn't at it's best ^_^

The only thing is, "No. In one of the tomes, they said directly to a Fiazhat that they weren't gods.", in Kixkti Xri's journal they do tell a Fiazhat that's in the process of being sacrificed for the Sclavus ceremony "No Gods are we, child of another sun.", but I got the impression that they only told them that after it was too late, in a bit of Bond-villain-esque exposition...

I guess they could have tried to tell the Fiazhat that they weren't gods, but I had the impression from their use of illusions and the phrase "I shall bring the cleansing to the worlds where -we- are Gods." that they went with the intention of giving that impression. I could be wrong of course, I can't think of anywhere it actually says that the Falatacot encouraged the Fiazhat's belief so maybe it really was just that they couldn't convince them otherwise ^_^

"Not 100% sure that the followers are Falatacot."

You're right they might not be, I just assumed it because it sounds like they used sclavus and they were also able to travel to bur, but they could well be another race using blood rituals... I agree that the Adjanites almost certainly weren't Falatacot ^_^

"99% sure that's The Great Master [The one who shall not be named] . They didn't fear BZ like they did TGM. I'm not even sure if Illservian had been turned into the hopeslayer at this point."

I think it's BZ or TGM... The only thing is it was Gaerlan writing the Tome of the Elements, so BZ had already appeared and been sealed. It's not really clear who it refers to, but I just guessed it meant BZ because of the phrase "in the time of the one that shall remain unnamed.". It seems like that would be referring to BZ since he was around for a certain period of time between being turned into the hopeslayer and being sealed, while TGM seems more of a constant. Again though, I could be wrong since he might be referring to a time when the unnamed one just had more of an influence on events, in which case it could be TGM.

"I don't see how that's the case, since Ixir Zi specifically talks about the breeze-talkers."

Yes, the more I think about it the less likely it seems that the breeze-talkers would be the Falatacot, it just doesn't make sense that they would refer to themselves in that way in just one name and nowhere else... But then who are they, and who are the ones who covet the breeze-talkers? It seems like the way to find out who the breeze talkers are is to work out who the ones who covet them are... The only references are in 'The Last Expedition of Ixir Zi' as far as I know:

"The betrayal of 'they who covet the breeze-talkers'
is complete at last."

"Ever more shall we forsake the Fiazhat
and allow the blasphemy that 'they who covet
the breeze-talkers' have enabled."

So, if the blasphemy they're referring to is the power of the Burun and their victories over the Fiazhat, whoever's responsible for that power must be the covetters. Assuming it's not an accident from the introduction of mana to the world by the Faltacot themselves (And it certainly seems like they don't think it was), the only suspects I can think of would be The Sleeping One or possibly Geraine.

If it were Geraine we'd be back to the breeze-talkers being Falatacot, since it was their power the Dericost covetted. But we're already assuming that's not it since it doesn't make much sense.

Gah, I can't work it out, I think we need more information ^_~

Orion - lol, tease! Thanks for giving us a clue that somewhere in here was the right track though ^_^

I have been getting very muddled on the timeline throughout here...

CountOrkin - How do you know Galaeral is an Adjanite priestess? Not saying she isn't, just wondering where you find that out... Since I don't have an active subscription to AC at the moment all my info on the patch is second hand through patch pages so I'm a bit behind ^_^

"Also the teaser image for this patch which shows a dead Mosswart next to a shadow(has anyone found this IG yet?)"

According to another thread this is in the new Umbral Hall hub dungeon near Kryst... Unfortunately I have no idea if there are any clues as to what's going on in there. I'm not so sure though that the shadows would kill the mosswarts to help the Falatacot, even if they were allied... It just doesn't seem shadow style, they dominate and absorb, they don't seem the type to ally and honour those allegiances centuries later. Of course, they're pretty weakened just now and the Falatacot are rising in strength, so maybe they are acting the willing ally like Ler Rhan was with Aerbax... Trickery's another thing they do after all ^_^

"But if the meaning of Darkness remains consistant in their speech, this would put them adverse to the Dericost"

I definitely agree with this, from a lot of the writings it sounds like there were many Falatacot factions who didn't agree with teaching the Dericost their powers - Ixir Zi's faction and whichever faction Galaeral are at the very least. That would explain why they stayed behind and didn't go to Dericost I guess, which would suggest the followers of Light were against it too (Since they seem to have stayed on Dereth as well)

"Are allied with "The World Shaper" which IMO is a Shadow(Probably Ler Rhan)"

I feel that the World Shaper is an undead, probably the primogenitor called Jaenyn in the Olthoi Chasm, since all the missives to the World Shaper seem to be to him. The only thing that makes me doubt it is his full name is 'Jaenyn, Stone Shaper', which makes me wonder if that's the same thing as World Shaper or if he's just a subordinate... And if he's a subordinate the World Shaper would have to be very powerful indeed, on a level with Geraine himself, for a Primogenitor undead to work for him.

Chupon - Nuhmudira has definitely been using Falatacot Blood Rituals for years now, we know that for a fact

Someguy1 - I agree, it's like a big mystery story isn't it? The fun is in trying to work it out before you're told ^_^

That's a very interesting quote, what's that from?

I personally thought that the Beast of Thirteen Floating Eyes (B13FE? ^_~) was some reference to Aerbax's or Ler Rhan's new forms - Since he was mentioned by the Aerbax altered drudges in Aerbax's dumping grounds, the VoD, and he suggests that his power is due to B13FE's actions. I'm struck though by the number of eyes, which is the same as the number of high priestesses of Ixir Zi's faction, Ixir Zi and the twelve. Perhaps this is a clue to what's actually experienced within the Energy Source itself. Or maybe it's just coincidence ^_~

The big problem I have with a link between B13FE and the Falatacot is that other than the number and the mention of eyes, they don't seem to have much to do with each other at all... Although I suppose that the Burun were transformed somehow in a way kind of similar to the Energy Source... hmm, and for that matter, didn't Ixir Zi suggest that the Burun's new power was caused by someone intentionally?

I'm thinking out loud here by the way ^_^ But there are similarities between the Burun's transformations and the Energy Source. Since Ler Rhan led Aerbax to the Source in the first place, in the guise of his Mirror, it probably has something to do with the shadows and maybe the Kemeroi (Assuming the Kemeroi are BZ's boss... insert whatever you believe about that one in their place ^_^), and the twisting of life also matches the Shadow's usual methods...

But then I get stuck up against those darn breeze-talkers again. The Falatacot attribute the Burun's change to the betrayal of 'They who covet the breeze-talkers'. If it were the Kemeroi who were responsible... Could the breeze-talkers be the Old Ones, and the Kemeroi the ones who covet their power? If the Kemeroi draw power from the mana streams, but aren't actually part of them, while the Old Ones inhabit them directly, maybe the Kemeroi covet that...

But then what's the betrayal? By the time Bael'Zharon appeared the Falatacot were long gone, and as far as I know he's the only time the Kemeroi have directly influenced the world. I suppose they could have done so in more subtle ways before, and with our lack of knowledge of Falatacot history they could have been betrayed in many ways without us knowing (The only betrayal we know of in fact is if the Dericost broke their deal, and we don't even know that for sure).

lol, I don't know about you but I can't wait for next month (And they'd better not wrap things up a month late like last year ^_~)

Silifi Of Death

08-13-2004, 12:25 PM

I don't think this is going to end next month.. just seems like we're not quite at the climax yet... I hope this entire story keeps going on after, and during the winter months...

We'll have festivus still, the Burun don't look like they can take the cold too well..

EvilElvis

08-13-2004, 12:54 PM

See, here's what I think of some of the Falatacot (Ixir Zi's followers anyway): they believe the Old Ones will help them to become god-like. They believe they are the Old Ones more favored servants, and will gain even greater power than they already have. They even tried creating their own race by twisting one of the creations of their god, and creating temples for their Sclavus to worship them on Bur.

So, it's possible their egos have somewhat corrupted them. It's conceivable they've ticked off their gods, or some of them, with their actions. However, I don't think they'd really do something they knew was against the will of their gods.

It also doesn't make sense that this is the cause of the war between the Falatacot and the Burun; that the Old Ones are ticked at the Falatacot and decided to use the Burun to do their will on Bur. The Falatacot believe the Burun worship a different god, and the Burun believe the Falatacot god is different from theirs as well. It doesn't jive that they worship the same being(s).

Could they be different gods? The Burun believe their god created them and the Fiazhat. The Falatacot say the Old Ones created the Fiazhat. And, there's the incredibly similair refrences to eyes in both groups.

The only possible way I can see this is that someone/something has tricked the Burun and given them half-truths. Pretending to be an Old One (or at least pretending it's done the things the Old One has), it tells them the Falatacot worship a false god, meanwhile the Falatacot see that the Burun are now the subjects of the breeze-talkers.

As far as what's controlling Nuhmudira... she's definitely not a Falatacot, since she's from Ispar. It was said she learned alot of the Falatacot rights, blood rituals, and how to "sing" to the Sclavus. But... she may have found the Book of Ebhil. If that's the case, it probably is taking control of her. While it's possible, I don't think Nuhmudira has anything to do with this.

That teaser shot of a dead mosswart.. maybe that was a mistake? I don't think those shadows are fighting the mosswarts. They aren't Aerbrax's tainted shadow. It's possible it's an Isin Dule alligned shadow, and they're working together for some reason. They have been for a while, actually. In the mosswart dungeon for the sing weapons, there's a grievver and shadows. Also, does anyone else find it odd that there's 2 "subway" dungeons with portals to all over Dereth which are being guarded by shadows?

I don't think BZ was really being controlled by the Kemeroi. There's actually conflicting undead messages about this. One undead death message said bz was the servant of the kemeroi, and I think it was Rytheran who said he wrested the black breaths from them. But, how BZ could have taken the Black Breaths from someone/something supposedly so powerful is a mystery.

The other thing I wonder, is if it's the Black Breaths that turns people into Shadow, then what does The Great Master do? Wasn't it TGM who, by will alone it seems, turned Hamud into a shadow? Were the Black Breaths a power of TGM which the kermoi had taken control of? If the Black Breaths were actually powers of the Kemeroi, wouldn't that rewrite alot of what we believe about TGM and the Kemeroi?

Cai

08-13-2004, 03:31 PM

I think a clarification and restatement of what I said earlier is in order, mostly because it's wrong.

The kemeroi are not a reference to The Old Ones, they are servants of the Great Master, much like BZ himself. It may be a reference to a race of servant beings, they may be the "elder ones" as referenced in the Amorphous lump translation (http://www.thejackcat.com/AC/Culture/Texts/Amorphous.htm)

"He (BZ) has been twisted. Oh, not as thoroughly as the elder ones. Not yet."

and

"A note, before I leave thee; I am become suspicious of the elder ones, those that existed before the Great War. They speak too little, and seem to much of a mind for my taste. I wonder indeed what their goals are. Speak not to them of our plans."

If 'elder ones' refers to the kemeroi, this is in contradiction of Aerfalle's letter, that states the "kemeroi still sleep". Or it could simply refer to other individuals that were corrupted by the Great Master before BZ.

This has only scant association with the relationship between Falatacot and the Burun, and then only in motive. The Old Ones opposed the Great Master, and it would not be a stretch to think that the servants of the Great Master would seek to harry the Old Ones or their servants. Perhaps the servants of the Nameless one are involved in the opening of the portals and the raising of the temples. There are references in the oldest texts refering to the Great War of laughter on the wind, and this was heard in the Olthoi Queen's chamber after Nuhmudira enacted the final ritus.

I found this interesting passage in the Pulsating Lump translation (http://www.thejackcat.com/AC/Culture/Texts/Pulsing.htm)

"Those in service to us are staunch allies indeed, but few in number. Those which serve their own ends are more numerous, yet still depleted from their ancient wars. Do not underestimate their powers! As you are to Him and that He serves, so they were to the witches and the Old Ones. The Old Ones may be gone, but aspects of their power still remain, cloaked in the rotting flesh of men."

This does little to explain the relation between the falatacot and burun and so may be off topic, but with the incorrect information above and the references to kemeroi in other submissions, correction and clarification were required.

Again, I hope I don't confuse things too much.

Cai

EvilElvis

08-13-2004, 04:01 PM

No. The elder ones refrence is to old Empyrean transformed shadow (like the umbris and panumbris). By BZ not being as twisted as the elder ones, they're refering to these Empyrean shadows.

If you read the lumps, the elder shadows have a different though/speech patterns from newer, lesser shadows. They have a deeper connection to TGM, and almost share a collective thought.

The relationship of the Kemeroi to TGM is unknown, but they're probably not servants to them.

"As you are to Him and that He serves, so they were to the witches and the Old Ones" This refers to the Undead. The Falatacot taught the Undead (once Dericost) some of their ways, like becoming undead. They then started to believe in their gods, the Old Ones. It does bring up a good point though. Would Geraine really work against the Falatacot or Old Ones? He seems to have his own motivations and desires, but I'm not sure.

Shelendil

08-13-2004, 04:55 PM

The screenshot of the shadow and dead mosswart is from just outside the Umbral Hall portal when the spawns are at rest, if I recall.

Protes

08-13-2004, 06:22 PM

Hey Cerulia & Cai, yeah that's what I meant was the kemeroi. I forgot how to spell it since it's been awhile since I read Aerfalle's letter. I know very little about the kemeroi, thanks for giving me some more insight into it :)

"You should all review the timeline again. Remember that there was a massive stretch of time that is 'unrecorded' history."

Thanks Orion! I'm going to do just that, again.. lol.
I really love the Burun/Falatacot story arc. Great job so far with this years story arc. I started playing AC1 in Feb '02 and I enjoyed Elements of Revenge. But I think this current story is going to wind up being my favorite of the three.

I agree with you Chupon, Nuhmudira does have a connection with the Falatacot. She learned Falatacot Blood Magic from The Book of Blood. Not to get off topic, but I have come to the conclusion Nuhmudira became undead when she sacrificed Yal ibn Rab. I'm probably wrong, as always lol. I don't care though it's been fun so far trying to make sense of it all.

Well I'm off to do some more reading :D

Ockham

08-13-2004, 07:12 PM

Just FYI, about this passage:

"But there is another race that has lived as long as the Old Ones . But they are dormant now, speaking only when their prophecy might have meaning to those that will listen. Another voice, from beyond. Fed by the Blood of the World but not of the Blood of the World."

I believe it refers to the talking prophecy-spouting Tall Trees on ML.

Protes

08-13-2004, 08:47 PM

I found this to be very interesting from the teaser The Maddness of Men event

Elysa recognized him still through the grime and stench—Roderick Largent, once a member of her castle guard. He had been assigned to investigate the disappearances on Marae Lassel, went missing two months prior, and was found preaching in Zaikhal only a few hours ago. He stood before her now, flanked by two guards who watched him with wary eyes. She felt pity.

“Roderick, where have you been, what did you see?” she asked in a quiet and steady voice, trying to calm him down.

Roderick’s eyes locked onto hers. Now his demeanor changed—he stood tall and stopped shifting. No more laughter, no more smile, only ice-blue eyes staring through her. The room seemed to warp; sound and light bent in awkward directions as he began to speak.

“I have seen the end. I have seen the coming of a tide that shall scour the face of this world and wipe clean the prophecies of the golden age. There will be a call to children who were forgotten, buried and lost. Their wrath shall be barbed with poison that courses through the veins of the world, and all shall rot. Auberean is forsaken by the light and so it shall be consumed.” He cackled madly, but his lips did not move; his eyes still held hers in place and the room slowly turned dark. “First, there shall be a time of respite. The shadow will creep through its halls, falling silent but working, ever vigilant, while the warped souls of man are drawn closer to its call. The halls of the frozen city will be strengthened, a place of battle shall cull the weak from the land, Ispar will turn against Ispar. The heavens will break and a scream both holy and unholy will shatter a barrier that has long protected us all.”

Flames burst up behind Roderick, and his crazed eyes bore through Elysa like knives. The wound in her back throbbed and the sound of blood roared in her ears.

“You ask me what I have seen? I have seen the folly of sending the Lightbringer away. Now the darkness shall grow, unchecked, unabated. You are the architect of this world’s demise! Damned is your name!” The laughter began again and Elysa screamed in defiance.

---

Roderick Largent comes across The Order of the Raven Hand. He mentions events related to the Buruns/Falatacots and the activites of the Shadows. In addition to this, there's the part where he says "..Ispar will turn against Ispar". Now that could be in reference to PK & PKL and the Small Creepy Statues, it even could about Raven Hand. But I wonder if this will be the first reference to the Viamonts and the ToD Xpac.

Anyways, I thought the prophecies from Roderick Largent was post worthy :)

CountOrkin

08-13-2004, 09:18 PM

Actually what about the possibility of the elder sect of Shadows not affiliated with Bael Zharon having something to do with this? Perhaps they are the ones who killed the Mosswarts in the swamps now that we've seen the dead Mosswarts in the Umbral Halls.

Protes

08-14-2004, 08:12 AM

CountOrkin -

I mentioned earlier in previous posts of mine about there being 3 groups of the Falatacots - it went along the lines of The Followers of the Light, The Dark Sisters, and a Shadow sect.
Right now I don't know how accurate I was on it, I was under the impression I was wring with at least the details of it. Throwing a fourth Falatacot group into the mix seems a bit much yet it is interesting how you tied those pieces together :)

On a side note, there are actually 13 Falatacots that are called the Dark Sisters. The group consists of the High Matron, Mother Ixir Zi (leader) and 12 other sisters.
Also, there are at least 6 temples on Dereth where the Dark Sisters self imprisoned themselves in slumber. So far we have found 3 out of 6 of these temples - Ixir Zi, Liazk Itzi, and Hizk Ri. I know later on you comment on Ixir Zi being the leader of the Dark Sisters faction, but the number of Dark Sisters may be important since they are sleeping within their temples.

edit: Oh, I just read your last post CountOrkin. I agree with you, there is a tie of the Shadows and Mosswarts. I haven't gotten that far yet in re reading the lore to delve into the recent Shadow activities and follow up on those connections. What you are suggestin sounds good to me. From what I recall earlier there was a discussion about the Aerbax/Ler Rhan connection. If this is true, then the Mirror and/or Harbinger (lol, at this point I don't know if it's one of the same yet) would be something of signficance with the Burun/Falatacot; like The Sleeping One or Old One, as suggested before.

Cerulia

08-14-2004, 03:39 PM

Actually Ler Rhan is the Mirror I believe ^_^

Protes

08-14-2004, 04:43 PM

"Actually Ler Rhan is the Mirror I believe ^_^"
Yeah Ler Rhan is the Mirror. Some opinions about the "energy source" made me forget about that important fact :)

====

Though I'm far from being finished, but here's what I got out of my research so far.
It's been a LONG night & morning so I'm calling it quits for now to get some much need rest, lol.

* Aerbax/Ler Rhan

The energy source that Aerbax has been using is Ler Rhan. Later on Aerbax starts to call the energy source it's Mirror. So Ler Rhan is the Energy Source/Mirror, the Energy Source isn't the Harbinger.

I don't know Ler Rhan's intentions, but it seems like he sought after Aerbax to rebuild his faction of the Shadows. When Aerbax was sent back to Dereth he moved his laboratory into Caul Asylum, where Ler Rhan and his followers had taken refuge after the fall of BZ.

The connection though that I am finding to the Burun/Falatacots with Aerbax and Ler Rhan is sharing knowledge of the secrets he knows about The Blood of the World.
From this Aerbax learned how to create a portal well (Eye) or use one to keep a watch over The Singularity. Aerbax also created some sort of magical shroud over Dereth to conceal his location from the Quiddity.
(note: I'll explain in further detail about The Eye of Sleeping One in a little bit)
Aerbax wishes to infuse Ler Rhan to The Singularity yet they both don't know what the outcome would be so the choice is made to weaken the Harbinger then capture to be the test subject on it. In one of the books written by Aerbax's, Experimentation, he consistantly refers to the Harbinger as a specimen.

-

* The Sleeping One

I don't think Geraine is The Sleeping One, evidence suggests a far more powerful being created life on Bur. Geraine was taught by the Falatacots some of their magics yet most remained hidden in secrecy from him. Geraine does seem to at one timeto seek out the hidden secrets of the Falatacot.
But the question I keep asking myself is, to what extent Geraine pursued this.
I like the suggestions about Geraine being TSO however I haven't read anything yet that reveals the Falatacot themselves could create "worlds".

I don't think TSO is the Harbinger, so far i am getting the feeling the Harbinger doesn't possess the intellect to create "life" and shape "worlds". It's more like a formless beast lying deep within The Blood of the World.

At least for now I am thinking The Sleeping One is an Old One. Though I'm not certain but so far the lore I've been re reading seems to be pointing to something like an Old One (at least with some creations of Bur).

-

* mucor

I suspect mucor is Mana or what the Falatacot refer to as The Blood of the World. The Sleeping One uses the mucor to create its life on Bur. Within the mucor TSO it places the memories of the secrets of Bur. The mucor sees and remembers everything that happens on Bur.
(I still have quite a few more documents to go through to follow-up on the mucor, but it's so far the most logical thing I can of what it is)

Further reading about mucor is eluding to The Sleeping One placing mucor in spots across Bur. The location/design choosen I believe may be similar to the Menhir Rings back on Dereth.

Later in time within the mire the Burun lived by and consumed the mucor.

edit: One last thing I left out. The Fiazhats don't consume the mucor so they possibly never had knowledge of the hidden secrets of Bur nor The Sleeping One. Also, the temples the built to worship the Fiazhat's false gods (Fiazhats) and possibly later on the Burun build over these temples to worship The Sleeping One. I believe the sites where the 6 temples were built to worship the Falatacots by the Fiazhats were near locations of mucor.

-

* Vast Divide

A thought I had about Bur stems from the monthly event Across the Vast Divide.
The relation of the title and the Eye, the Sleeping One, and the Strange Devices found within the Dark Sisters temples makes me wonder if Bur might be an alternate world (like a universe or dimension) between worlds.

It is suggested in lore Bur is a world that The Sleeping One creates its life on.

Thus, I theorize Bur is not just the name of the planet but also of an alternate world.
[note - The Sleeping One may haven't be the original "owner" of Bur, but it did appear to claim Bur for itself.]

- Across the Vast Divide teaser - “In the course of our travels to other worlds, it has become apparent that we are not the only entities that are aware of the place that exists between these worlds. It can be theorized that we are not the first race to pass through these portal wells, nor will we be the last.” – Asheron Realaidain, Master of the Lyceum at Knorr)

The Eye of The Sleeping One is a portal well between Auberean and Bur.
(I still believe that on Auberean the High Falatacot Priestesses (and/or Dark Sisters) use Blood magic to open the portal well to Bur.)

Another thing I think that Bur distinquishes itself as a "different" world is the creationism The Sleeping One conducted on Bur.

An important note is the following from the Report to Niraltah -
Fire rained from the sky and the second world of bur crumpled in the sky and fell to the world of Bur.

See, during the time when The Sleeping One came to Bur(?) to create its life there, an interesting event occurs. The Sleeping One creates a world but it fails. Three times TSO creates a world but each one is met with failure. The fourth world becomes successfull.
I think the TSO's failed worlds become known as the moons of Bur (dead worlds in its eyes).

-+=+=+=+-

Cerulia

08-14-2004, 07:19 PM

Is the Energy Source really Ler Rhan? I always thought that it was something on the caul that either Aerbax found or Ler Rhan led him to, a sort of source of 'shadow energy' left from when it was BZ's private playground... Could you maybe explain that one a little more please? It's definitely interesting, it would throw quite a few things I believed completely off ^_^

I think you might be taking the reports to niarltah a little too literally though - I wouldn't rule out Geraine because he doesn't have the power to create a world for example, after all, just because he's not the Sleeping One the Burun believe in doesn't mean he isn't playing the role to manipulate them. Also, it's quite possible that the Sleeping One is a god figure and the whole early parts of the report are a creation myth, and the world was just formed however worlds usually are ^_~

It's an interesting thought that the mucor could be mana - There are quite a few mentions of ingesting it, but then on Dereth mana forms a liquid in places so after the falatacot strengthened Bur's mana streams that could be possible... I had thought it was some sort of fungus or plant (Possibly an intelligent one, but mana could fit. The only thing is, and I might be remembering this wrong since it's getting a little late, there are some mentions of mucor that just don't seem to fit with mana - For starters it's only in swampy areas, where mana is universal (And the falatacot would make sure there was at least some for the Fiazhat). Also, when there's a disaster that shifts the Kuruuk and Guruk underground, it mentions the mucor mostly being shifted down with them, which would imply it's usually on the surface... but everything we know about mana streams has them deep underground.

About the Vast Divide, the title might just be referring to portal space, as in this quote from one of the two stories posted that month: "The false ones came from across the vast divide, in tunnels of thunder, smoke and light". Saying it's an alternate world just seems like it might be overcomplicating things... Maybe you could explain a bit more why you think so? ^_^

EvilElvis

08-14-2004, 08:33 PM

The energy source isn't Ler Rhan.

The Old Ones have done things on bur, like create the Fiazhat, and probably the Burun. However, the Sleeping One is most likely not an Old One, and could very well be someone manipulating the Burun's beliefs.

The mucor the Burun drink sounds like it could be infused with mana. I don't think it's mana itself.

Protes

08-14-2004, 10:06 PM

Okay, you guys are possibly right about the Ler Rhan not being the "energy source".
I think I got lost in the early interpetations of Aerbax's notes.

I suppose that source is possibly then something from the Darkness. If i remember from text about stuff Hamud and Raven Hand, the Shadows have a similar oneness of a collective mind much like the Virindi and the Singularity. Because of these things, maybe that's why Aerbax calls Ler Rhan his Mirror.

At the moment there is only one thing that I can think of which could possibly be the energy source, and that is the kemeroi.

"I think you might be taking the reports to niarltah a little too literally though"

Cerulia, thanks. Yeah I have a habit of taking the lore to literally. I knew Bur had life (like Fiazhat & Buruns) and existed it before The Sleeping One but I was indeed focusing heavily on the Reports to Niarltah and was trying to piece together what The Sleeping One was doing. I can see the possibilty of it first being a creation of the Old Ones and later on The Sleeping One begins to create its own life.

The mucor I may also have taken to literally from all the text on it, lol. I'll re read through those parts again.

I also think I'm somewhat off about the Eye. I think perhaps at first the Eye of The Sleeping One was really more like a window looking out across all that was Bur.
The Eye(s) the Falatacots passed in through to Bur was something of their demise, at first to watch Bur yet later the opened The Eye(s) they built to cross over, or that beast with the 13 Eyes is The Sleeping One. Either way, I'm back to my old theory about the kemeroi being The Sleeping One.

Geraine I'm still having a hard time piecing him into it. I'll have to see if I can tieing him into sabotaging the Dark Sisters expeditions to Bur. There are things about this theory that make sense but there are certain elements to it that appear to contradict events.

Protes

08-15-2004, 03:29 PM

I think I figured out the role of the Followers of the Light in Falatacot society.
The Followers of the Light are the Falatacot Scholars. The Dark Sisters are a faction of the Falatacot Priestesses.

Based from what I read in Tome of Elements, the Falatacot Priestess studied Geomancy and their obessions with the arts lead them to Dereth. This led to the Falatacots leaving there homeland and move to Dereth, bringing with them their scholars.

As the Falatacot Priestesses delved further into the hidden arts of their Blood Rites they uncovered magics that could take the life from one and give to another. It was these forms of blood rites that sparked a feud between the Followers of the Light and the Falatacot Priestesses, and eventually lead to the Dark Sisters forming.

====

Here's some other stuff I've been contemplating.

At one point in time there is The Disciples of Blood. The Disciples were a originally followers of the Winds from the Darkness and they praticed the dark magics that would lead to the summoning of the Harbinger. Geraine eventually put a stop to The Disciples completing their work and yet Geraine kept the recovered books of the Disciples. He took these books and kept them in his personal library in his citadel.

Many years later Gaerlan "discovers" one of the 3 citadels of Geraine. He comes across the library and begins to read through the tomes of the Disciples.
Gaerlan pays several visits to the citadel. The text surrounding these events (Gaerlan's Reseach Notes(?)) there are subtle things recorded that occurred during Gaerlan's absence from the citadel. If I'm not mistaken the interpetation of these entries from others is this was Geraine.

Now, Geraine was opposed to the Disciples summoning the Harbinger and he had them eradicated but there were no recorded of events of Geraine trying to stop Gaerlan from summoning the Harbinger.

I can see Geraine originally sending forth adversaries to Dereth to learn the hidden secrets of the Falatacots. With the knowledge they discover, the adversaries splinter off from the Winds from the Darkness. Though he's against what the Disciples are doing, Geraine decides to monitor their progress in elemental magic research. Thus, when the Disciples were nearing their completion of summoning the Harbinger Geraine stopped them from doing so.

It maybe possible the Disciples came into being before or soon after the Dark Sisters went to "sleep". The problem I have with this link between the Disciples and Dark Sisters is Geraine confides his feelings about the Dark Sisters and there's entries suggesting he may have been responsible in some way to the Dark Sisters sealing themselves shut inside their temples.
I have a problem understanding how Geraine in one context (AC1) would be appalled to the Dark Sisters and yet in another (AC2) be doing twisting life just like the sisters.

===

Okay because of these contradictions I began to think what possibly drove Geraine to pursue the Dark Sisters, then he went after the Disciples.

I came up with an idea about process of consumption that might have occurred to Geraine (meaning his thoughts being consumed and distorted by the darkness)

If I take into consideration the idea of Geraine fighting the Falatacots (ie Dark Sisters) and his desires to learn more about the magics of the Falatacot people then the following possibly occurred -
Upon Geraine's return to Dericost and the arrival of the Falatacot people, Geraine began to teach the nobles the secrets as well and transform them into similar immortal beings. But of course this is met with failure. Geraine wanted to know what went wrong so he sought to learn the secrets. It's possible since he was now a prodigy of Falatacot Blood magic that the Darkness was already consuming his mind at the time distorting truths and beliefs. It certainly would be easy enough for him raise the banner and pursue to learn the secrets on the principles of some of the dark secrets of the Falatacots. And yet how much of these thoughts would be his own and not of the Masters of the Falatacots.

So an unseen entity, which was betrayed by the Falatacots(?), could very well began to twist Geraine's thoughts and used him as a pawn for revenge.
If that is the case then I could see how maybe at some point Geraine came in connection to Bur, with the intent to manipulate the Buruns and empower them with greater magics to undue the damage done by the Dark Sisters.

This entire coming together so far does appear to fit the passages pertaining to the War of Hate.
Geraine, and quite possibly most of Dericost, would be at some kind of war with the Falatacots on Auberean and the Burun were waging a successful war campaign against the Fiazhats on Bur. This definitely does explain why the Dark Sisters went to great lengths to seal the portals shut, self-imprisoned slumber, and the amount of work put into protecting their temples and secrets.

If I am not mistaken, Ixir Zi sought advice from their Master(?) and it was from this which she learned how to perform the ritus to "sleep" like their Masters (Old Ones(?)) do. I believe Ixir Zi possibly foresaw into the future and predicted there would be a time when they could be awaken and continue once more with their demise without the threat of war or hate.
I'm suspecting the magical barrier that was broken when the first portal of Bur opened was possibly a shroud the Dark Sisters created to protect them and the temples from "watchful" eyes. I'm thinking the global message on this with the spoken voice in Falatacot tongue was a warning call to their sister-kin and children that the portal to Bur had been open.

Anyways, let me move on to Nuhmudira. Nuhmudira is a mage and she was researching into the lost magics. She comes across The Book of Blood. Whether or not it was purposely placed for her to find (the book has been translated from Falatacot to both Dericost & Yalain), the book does consume her mind.

The process is I am suspecting is similar to Geraine's consumption; meaning her mind becomes obessed with the lost magics and her views become twisted.

I now can't help but to think of Nuhmudira's "housing projects". The magic behind the Cov. Crystals was from Blood Rites Nuhmudira learned from the book. She had done this because Nuhmudira had the belief that if the Empyreans were released from portal space then they would try to reclaim Dereth. I believe the thought and fear of such an outcome was planted into her mind to lure her obsession further into learning the hidden magics. As time goes on, the things she does with a belief it is good have tragic results(like the statues).

One thing really stand out though about Nuhmudira, being named a Singer.

Well my final thoughts of scenarios on all this is -

1).
* An enemy of Geraine/Master is using Nuhmudira awaken the Dark Sisters.
* Geraine's Master thwarts these plans by using the "outlanders" to break the open the portals to Bur, thus using the Buruns to eliminate the Dark Sisters and their remenants on Dereth.

2.
* Geraine/Master is using Nuhmudira to help find/awaken the Dark Sisters.
* During the Olthoi Insurgenance the Olthoi halt Geraine/Master progress. At the end of it they are able to continue to stir the Dark Sisters awake.
* BM1 temple is found and Geraine/Master lure the "outlanders" to it and use them to open the portal to Bur.

Of course there's other possibilities I've been thinking of surrounding these things but so far those 2 stands out to me as been the most likely scenarios.

----

EvilElvis

08-15-2004, 04:21 PM

I hightly doubt someone is using Geraine. He's been portrayed as a puppeteer himself, and it would be a real groaner if he was being manipulated. If he's involved, it's for his own agenda.

The Falatacot taught Geraine many of their ways (some of this knowledge passed down from the Old Ones themselves). Geraine saw the last Old One awake. It's been strongly insinuated that the Old Lords (winds/lords/geraine) worship the Old Ones. They may respect the Falatacot for teaching them, and because they both worship the Old Ones as well, but that is unclear. Geraine is portrayed as being ambitious, and wanting to take over the world. Perhaps even to become a god himself. He may be willing to go against everyone to attain his goal.

I don't remember any name being given to the book Nuhmudira found, but it's possible (even if they gave it another name) that it's the Book of Eibhil. The book has a will of it's own. It could well have taken over Nuhm's mind. Her singing may have awoken the Falatacot, whoever The Sleeping One is, and maybe even caused Geraine to make some decisions. Who knows. Her singing just seems to be a way to control the Sclavus, maybe magical in nature. It's not a big point. Something taking control of her is the important thing.

Falatacot and Geraine both have the ability to see into the future using blood rituals.

I've also decided that Isin Dule probably has nothing to do with the Shadows on Veseyan. They're probably remnants of the BZ aligned shadows; those still loyal to TGM.

Protes

08-15-2004, 04:25 PM

Here's some more.

Geraine's Master is possibly one of the Falatacot Priestesses Old Ones.
The Dark Sisters either have a different Master or they wish to become Masters themselves.
I'm uncertain but I suspect BZ and Geraine don't share the same master.
If kemeroi is BZ's Master, then perhaps pre-BZ the kemeroi was being worshipped by the Dark Sisters. Together the betrayed the Falatacot Old Ones by meddling with Bur. During the War of Hate the kemeroi/Dark Sisters were using The Disciples of Blood to summon the Harbinger. The purpose was to use it against the Light and Darkness (Falatacot Priestesses & Scholars and their Old Ones).

If there was a hidden agenda behind the Disciples summoning the Harbinger, then there is a the likelyhood Geraine would be at risk of the Disciples using the Harbinger against him.

There were many things the Disciples did uncover during their research that Geraine grew interest of. Perhaps Geraine waited till there were near completion of summoning the Harbinger for the reason to use it later for himself. Afterall the Cisterns were left intact while much of the Disciples had built was destroyed. If I remember this corretly, there is lore mentioning Geraine is sleeping while he undergoes a transformation.

--

I think it's unlikely the Harbinger is an Old One or Master. The reason I say this is because I interpret Geraine's entries on it as an entity that shouldn't come into existence.
I have the assumption The Sleeping One is an Old One.

So I'd have to say now knowing what I do, Geraine's Master is The Sleeping One.

Protes

08-15-2004, 04:41 PM

EvilElvis -

The name of the book was revealed in the Flesh & Blood teaser.

"Hanaureli Rezau. Translated from the Yalaini it meant, "Letters of the Red Self". But the Yalain name was just a translation from the older and original Dericost, Inikshai Ardun. The Book of Blood. Nuhmudira, harder and colder than most, had, at first, been appalled by some of the rituals the Book had described. She had thought her own people were prone to bloodthirst. . . the Book showed her how soft they were. Its blackened pages and red-inked words revealed many things. Occasionally she wished she did not know what she knew now. But this would be the second step towards saving her people, one potentially far more powerful than just shelters."

http://www.thejackcat.com/AC/Culture/Dereth/Flesh.htm#teaser

***

"I hightly doubt someone is using Geraine. He's been portrayed as a puppeteer himself, and it would be a real groaner if he was being manipulated. If he's involved, it's for his own agenda.

The Falatacot taught Geraine many of their ways (some of this knowledge passed down from the Old Ones themselves). Geraine saw the last Old One awake. It's been strongly insinuated that the Old Lords (winds/lords/geraine) worship the Old Ones. They may respect the Falatacot for teaching them, and because they both worship the Old Ones as well, but that is unclear. Geraine is portrayed as being ambitious, and wanting to take over the world. Perhaps even to become a god himself. He may be willing to go against everyone to attain his goal."

Yeah you're right on all that, though I wasn't meaning Geraine is a puppet.
I was thinking of this idea of "consumption" acting differently than that.
I like your suggestion about Geraine's possible ambitions, that sounds more like his character (at least from the lore I read on AC2).

EvilElvis

08-15-2004, 05:54 PM

Lets say it's not the Book of Eibhil. Why does the Book of Eibhil have it's own will? Maybe there are other Falatacot books with their own will. We don't really know. This book could have taken over Nuhm as well. There's really nothing concrete as to what's happening to Nuhmudira.

I think the Harbinger is actually something like the mana of Auberean given form. The Dericost refer to it as the first, oldest, and only original inhabitant of the planet, but life can have many meanings. It doesn't necessarily have to be sentient, or even have motives.

I hightly doubt the Kemeroi is The Nameless/The Great Master. While the Kemeroi obviously have some connection to BZ, and maybe TGM, there's alot that goes against that idea. First, the Kemeroi have been refered to as plural, while TGM is a singular being. Second, TGM is the one locked within Auberean by the Old Ones. Third, Stormwaltz has said before that TGM doesn't really have these great schemes... He is. He hungers. He yearns. The Kemeroi on the other hand, are refered to as schemers. It doesn't fit. " They are older than the ones that trouble you, I believe; Uvriliim and Paanuvriliim. Fortunately, the Kemeroi still sleep. Should they appear again, I think the dark ones would cease to toy with the outlander hoard that vexes Killiakta" Why would the shadow be afraid of something if it were aligned with them?

The Kemeroi also aren't the Old Ones. The Old Ones are the light, and the Kemeroi seem willing to use the tools of TGM (BZ, and probably The Black Breathes, which I'm guessing were originally created by TGM). The Kemeroi are said to be asleep, but that's odd, since the Black Breathes were wrested from them. I guess it's possible that they may have taken the BB's just to keep TGM from having them, but it doesn't make alot of sense for them to deal with BZ at all. I don't get why we'd give a name to these Old Ones, too. Also, we can refer to the passage I posted above by Rytheran, "Fortunately, the Kemeroi still sleep". Rytheran believes the Old Ones will return, and probably worships them in some way. If they were Old Ones, why would he say it's fortunate they still sleep?

I also highly doubt the Falatacot would worship the Kemeroi (if they aren't the Old Ones). Ixir Zi is one of the Dark Sisters, and says she worships the Old Ones. They believe the Burun worship a false god. While the Falatacot may have angered their gods, with their aspirations of becoming gods themselves, and by overstepping their bounds, they wouldn't go against the Old Ones. At least not Ixir, and her followers. The Burun, though, would be a much easier race to trick.

Renegade Knight

08-15-2004, 07:33 PM

From what I can tell...BZ was created from The Master (thru unknown ritual), who is trapt within Auberean...The Old Ones (falatacot gods) imprisoned him there using the ley lines, which act like a prison. The Harbringer is not a old one yet a being created by them that maintains the prison (it does not think etc. it simply does what it was created to do) The kemeroi, was a being simply like the old ones...

IMO the old ones, the master, the kemoroi are all the same race...simply different factions...or that they all originate from the same place. They all share power equal to eachothers.

I also have a theory...its a bit out of whack yet its possible...the old ones are empyrean...yet highly beyond the falatacot etc...they wer the original race from which the empyreans came from...Say if we went back in time to the time of the cave men...they would think we wer gods because of our technology. I think the old ones are empyrean who became far beyond the tribal empyreans (who wer still evolving in evoulution) Over time the Old Ones left Auberean for another world or perhaps went on to another plane of existance (or slept waiting to reawaken)...during this time the falatacot had seen them and worshiped them like gods (altho the old ones in a way were like gods themselves due to they were advanced in magic to the point that they were practically immortal)

All i can say is we know barely anything of the old ones...who they were...what they were...or thier history.

Someguy1

08-15-2004, 09:19 PM

As long as we're talking about Bael and it may tie into what's going on if in fact Aerbax/Ler Rhan are involved.

I think that Illservian became Bael Zharon by being exposed to the energy source.

Lore states that the energy source can augment creatures into the subject of their fears. The Empyrean worshipped the light so naturally the energy source augmented the empyrean into being of darkness.

"Fear changes the physiology of the subject and twists their being into the subject of their fear."

Also Bael mentions a specific being of some sort named Jhirvall that empowered him somehow. The fact that something that did what it did had a name. I mean most of the elder shadow creatures/kemeroi/Great Master don't have specific names. Its the only time he was ever directly mentioned in AC's lore at all. Most likely he is the one that facilitated the transformation of Ilservian into Bael through the energy source since Bael just didn't stumble accross it and become Bael.

Bael'Zharon says, "The Kemeroi still speak to me, you know. Jhirvall's gifts pulse in me."

Best evidence is Aerbax's current transformation. Ler Rhan says that Aerbax has been called just like his former master (that being Bael). Since we can assume whatever is happening to Aerbax involves the energy source i'd say it did in Bael's case too.

"Lord Aerbax has been called, as my master before.

Meaning? Kaebrix asked, impatient.

His presence on this world is masked from the sight of those far less than he. I am his mirror no more. Though he will still call me so, I am sure."

Not sure if this means anything in relation to the sleeping one if there's a link between the Falatacot and the Bo13FE then it may be relevent. I'd like the devs to say something about Jhirvall anyway, its got to be the most obscure, mysterious reference in AC's lore.

Wolfenstein

08-25-2004, 04:02 PM

I just want to say that after reading this entire thread, I am very impressed with the depth of reading and theorizing that you folks have done.

I have always been a lore-junkie, but this has brought about a whole new level of understanding. Thank you all.

inocare1

09-06-2004, 08:53 PM

I think if you read the AC2 lore in conjunction with AC1's ongoing/lore events you slowly realize that things are much more straight forward than they seem -- at least at a certain level.. The details are of course intricate, exciting and at times confusing, but ultimately it all comes down Gerain's subtle plans. Strip away all the intermidiary actors and Gerain is at the bottom of it all. What I find most interesting is how we are caught in the middle of a processes whose totality we can't envision. We see only a very small part of Gerain's millenia old machinations and think were privy to some great event -- but reality, its all just a minor chapter in a larger story.

Protes

11-12-2004, 04:52 AM

The lore from On Bended Knee so far is great!
Upon watching the teaser video today and reading the texts off Maggie's patch page I'm curious what others now think about who is responsible for first meddling with Temple of Ixir Zi, and somewhat luring us to the other Falatacot Temples.

In the teaser, From the Darkness Born, the Mosswarts (Bleeargh ?) believe "ill spirits" are responsible for incident at the Temple of Ixir Zi. This made me suspect the Shadows had some involvement. However now with Nuhmudira being located this patch I am wondering if she first investigated the Temple of Ixir Zi to obtain some Falatacot info/text for her desires of a higher understanding of the Falatacots and Blood magics.

It appears Nuhmudira has been visiting the Falatacot Temples (either before or after us visiting them) -
Nuhmudira's Journal lies open to a page that holds some interesting information. She has found the location of an island that has been hidden for a great many years. She divined the location from scripts that she found in one of the Falatacot temples that has been found in the past few months. She means to build a device that will transport her to this hidden island. She plans to build the device on the beach, in the shadow of Ithaenc Cathedral. As you finish reading the passage you feel a new awareness enter you.

In addition to this, I found the following line from On Bended Knee teaser video quite interesting -
There are instances where the curiosity of one can lead to the suffering of all.

I fairly certain this in reference to Rage Lao, however Nuhmudira was the first to discover and raise the Ancient Temple in the West Direlands and the following month there was the Falatacot Sister Vitriaka who turned Gareth Dain into a Sclavus (though the actual ritual probably occurred a year before this). So Nuhmudira could have first gone into the Temple of Ixir Zi to obtain or attempt to obtain what she wanted and then left.

It seems as if Nuhmudira's course for a higher understanding of Falatacot Blood magics has given someone an opportunity to take advantage of the situation of Rage Lao opening the portal from Bur; someone like a false Sleeping One (Geraine?) and/or The Beast with 13 Eyes (the "energy source" of Aerbax/Ler Rhan?).

In the teaser On Bended Knee Part 2 the last sentence is in reference to Tkowerk's (Kukuur Burun) prophecy to Torgluuk -
I have seen one other, whose image is unclear. But its purpose is very clear: to be the Eye for all worlds. The Eye of the Sleeping One, the sun, the Light.

So if I understand the text right, it appears Asheron is the Eye of The Sleeping One. I'm uncertain who The Sleeping One is, but with the Ruuk Burun recent activities on Bur and Dereth it does seem like there is an imposter of The Sleeping One because Torgluuk and Morgluuk have made choices they "felt" from The Sleeping One. Also both of them felt the presence of the Sleeping One on Dereth.

I think the true Sleeping One is good in nature. I say this because Torgluuk recognizes Asheron being the Eye of the Sleeping One, he sees good in the "pale one".
Asheron and Torgluuk seem to share a lot of similarities (from On Bended Knee Part 2 teaser); both have lived far beyond the time of their races common lifespan and both have lived by prophecies.

Anyways it's been awhile since there's been discussion on this subject and I am wondering what others are thinking now about the current story arc.

Flenop

11-12-2004, 05:18 AM

I've read through this whole thread, and I'd like to say good job on all the observations and such.

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Originally when I saw that Torgluuk saw Asheron as light, but not a pale one, I thought that same thing about him being somehow linked to TSO...

However via all the discussions you all have had here, I've come to notice that while Asheron and everyone else may be a pawn of TSO, he's not specifically the eye of it.

The way the Burun refer to the Sleeping One, and the fact that when the Burun eat the Mucor, they gain a complete knowledge of the past, at least of Bur, and the actions that have happened there. Being the case, there's been no revelation so far from any of the Kukuur (so far the only ones other than that Guruk, I won't even try to spell it) that TSO is anything BUT a nameless, bodiless creator and the sun really is its eye to them. Asheron being the eye doesn't fit in any way.

I'd like to interject that while I'm familiar with didly squat of the AC2 lore (I've been waiting to find out more as AC goes on), I also know didly about the AC lore :P

I realize some of you have throught this already, but to me the Great Master is definately the "Energy Source" Aerbax has been using all along. Ler Rhan using the same source, manipulating Aerbax or leading any assaults aside from this.

Nuhmudira is definately possessed by something, perhaps TGM, perhaps What's-his-face (That G dude, the undead guy, also not attempting poor spelling). It may have been Nuhmudira that went to the temples first, as if you remember, back when the first hazings of the swamps began, a dark power seeped out of them killing all the nearby creatures. Raising them all is questionable, they may have been predesigned for this purpose ahead of time, or maybe even some other power raised them.

If you think about it, at this point Bael'Zharon can be pretty much ignored, as his influence at the time is minimal, and is mainly directed at Asheron, not the Isparians, even though he may dislike them.

I really really hated the Burun story arc when it started, there really weren't enough pieces in place (or at least DETECTABLE ones) to spark anything decent to me.
-J-

Protes

11-12-2004, 06:59 AM

I'd just like to add something I noticed just a little while ago when reading the Rollout Article from Across the Vast Divide (which was the monthly event the Temple of Ixir Zi and the Rukk Burun first appeared)

The sound of porous bone drawn across supple flesh presages the appearance of blood-soaked words. There is no quill writing upon the page, nor is there light in this chamber, far removed from the surface of the world. No footfalls in the hallways, no being working over the tome, only a whisper of a woman's voice endlessly speaking, followed by the sound of bone carving the flesh of the book. So it has been since the coming of the dark ones, since the world grew cold and darkness consumed darkness while the light whimpered and watched its children fall.

The sun rises each morning. The moons come each night. Words ceaselessly appear on the pages of this book. Auberean has survived by way of these constants. But what happens to creation if the words one day stop?

I guess that's either talking about the Shadow Wars or the Dericost going after the Falatacots to learn their secrets. I'm leaning more towards the later. I do get the feeling Flenop that you're right, as others also; Geraine is connected in some way to The Sleeping One.

I guess I need to explain a little further on my thoughts about Asheron.
The meaning of the Light in ”The Eye of the Sleeping One, the sun, the Light.” is a symbol I believe which shares a common thread throughout some of the lore. The Eye of The Sleeping One is the Light. The scholars of the Falatacots are known as The Followers of the Light. Lady Adja's Grandmother I believe was once a Follower of the Light and Lady Adja was the Priestess of Ithaenic (Adjanites I guess came later). Asheron is called the Lightbringer and from Knorr he formed and led The Order of Perfect Light from Adja's prophecies.

Prophecies (excerpt from the book, 2nd of Adja's prophecy)
There was but Light and Darkness;
And then Auberean.
Darkness sought to seed Auberean
And climbed within the world
As Light created guardians,
And sent them to defend.
Guardians made war
Against the darkness,
And the darkness drew forth defenders
From the land
To stand against the light,
And the Light called lesser children
To bear itself against Darkness.
And then the war was won.

So the Darkness lay
Still and silent
But ne'er beaten by the bringers of Light
And so it called its children.
Not to make new war,
But to seed the soil with new treachery.

And the Darkness reached out
And brought forth other worlds,
So too the Light.
E'er Auberean at the heart
Where ever shall rest the war.

The "Darkness" via the High Falatacot Priestesses traveled to Bur and later the Followers of the Light did as well.

So I think Asheron has been in some way like an Eye to the Sleeping One,

(Excerpt from On Bended Knee Part 2)
"I see only light about you," Torgluuk croaked in Roulean.

Asheron nodded, "I have been told that more oft than I have wished, Torgluuk. There are some who once called me Lightbringer. There are those that gave their lives to curse me with this... nearly endless life. A blessing and a curse that you and I share I think, yes Torgluuk?"

It was true. Torgluuk and his brother Morgluuk were long-lived. They should have been dead generations prior to their arrival on this world. Torgluuk remembered that he was here to kill this man. He was a pale one, one of the beings that had come to his world so long ago. But he had no hate for this man. Torgluuk saw only the blessing of the eye within him. After the moment of reflection, Torgluuk nodded once.

Also keep in mind Asheron had forseen Torgluuk coming to him -
"Greetings entity Torgluuk, categorized as Burun Ruuk. Your arrival has been foreseen by Lord Asheron. I am to assist in restoring your health and then I am to bring you to Lord Asheron so he may discuss why you are here," Arikas stated as it approached Torgluuk.

The Sleeping One, the true one, is probably an Old One of High Falatacot Priestesses. Maybe The Dark Sisters activities on Bur led the Burun to believe all the "pale ones" are the false gods of the Fiazhats and certainly it appears there may be a false TSO corrupting the Buruns. The Dark Sisters did take a swamp dweller (harbinger or an old one) to Bur, which went underground taking root into the world's magic.

So I guess really either the Buruns suspect all Empryeans are false gods or someone has been deceiving the Buruns; as some text seems to mention The Sleeping had taught the Buruns magic. Either way though, I think Asheron has been like an Eye to the true TSO. And what I mean by that is Asheron is part of The Sleeping One, both which Torgluuk and Asheron share.