Are you people forgetting how Turbine did ACDM

[Renegade Knight]

Before acdm came out everyone was freaking out because of the changes as well as we are doing now...have some faith in turbine, they gave us one great expansion pack before and now they are going to do that agian. Stop doubting them. They didn't screw up with ACDM so i doubt they'll screw up the new ac expansion. On mmorpg.com ACDM is rated 8.1 which is amoung the highest scores (highest is 8.2) I really don't think turbine is stupid enough to screw up AC...sure we have some stuff here and there yet its nothing major that could bring down ac (example= ucm, due to many people are getting baned for it now) So just stop your complaining and wait till beta, then we'll see...

[Dieter McBain]

Aye... I remember all the moaning. It seems to have worked out ok for most. The ones who didnt like it have quit, reintalled, quit, reinstalled, quit, reinstalled.... notice a trend here?


:D

[MisatoX]

I don't remember people freaking out about ACDM, just remember most people were excited. Keep in mind it was a bit different back then. I believe we had different a lot of different devs then we have now and our patches had a lot more content.

[morrigan]

I have :) however I am still waiting to see if the expansion is worth my time coming back to it. I hold out hope for that. I am hoping the offical release from Turbine will show the incentives for all levels/players. Right now what I view mostly applies to the current player base.

The good thing was when they made AC:DM free to all recently. Interestingly enough, I wonder how many finally updated to it since it was free, I know of two players who finally got DM after all these years!

I was totally excited about AC:DM, I am not as excited about what info is currently released.

Then again, without the excitement from some, and the complaints from others how does Turbine know exactly what they think? It is thru both they get a view thru the players eyes :)

[MaddyFF]

I would say that housing was screwed up in ACDM :)

But other then that, I didn't have any issues with the first expansion pack.

[Unicron]

I disagree, when the news hit for AC:DM and that it would have features such as housing people were excited, VERY excited! The moaning came afterwards when people started camping for housing but housing wasn't open yet (It opened at different times)...Some people waited by their computers for hours to get a house but left the house for an hour or so and came back to find the Villas went on sale...

I don't remember any complaining before AC:DM came out, maybe a bit from Darktide because they felt housing was too carebear but they use that argument for everything.

[Yinchi]

Unicron, you are right, there was excitement about the DM release, at last we would have housing, wow!! :D

The complaints didnt' start til after everyone saw how housing was implemented, that was AFTER we had DM, not before. ;)

This time, lets share our concerns with the developers before the pack is carved in stone. This is not whining when you discuss issues you may have, it can be helpful. Old time players have a lot to share, their suggestions may actually help. Crying after the fact gets you nowhere.

[Zero_Washu]

These two expansions are very different.

The key difference being that Turbine has effectively thrown balance and reason to the wind by raising the level cap to 275 and essentially validating the macro based method of play.

People are forgetting what not capping experience does to a game, the biggest problem it causes is that everyone is nearly identical. Sorry, but I will not play in a world where you can be everything and do everything the best. Where the fun in having all your skills perfect, all your stats perfect? Whats next, perfect loot?

Keep it. Throne of Macroers is not for people who play MMORPGs, its for little kidz at the hobby stores with their "Gods and Galaxies" games where they have 3zillion hitpoints and hand phasers with +10 ubah swords of slaying about anything in their bag of holding. Monty Hall here we are.

Hence you now see why people are "moaning". ACDM added something, ACTOD (ACTOAD) isn't, its only exaggerating the fact AC is burdened with macroed characters and cheaters. Yippee!


They had a good chance of balancing the game, they have thrown all of that out.

[ApolloAce]

The 275 cap is not a reward to the macroers, people need to get off that particular non-existant soap box.

A player that hunts 5 hours a week (thats less than 45 minutes a day) can reach 126 in 4 years.

It's been 5 years folks.

The 126 cap has been reached and surpassed by even casual hunters, it's time to move on.

If your worried that the new players will listen to the 200+'s more than you, show the noobs why they should choose you as a teacher instead of them. Prove you "deserve" to be thier patron, don't automatically think they should have to, just because you think you are the only one that can do it.

[Sunjhi]

No, I am not forgetting how ACDM was handled. I liked it fine. However, I also recall buying 6 DM cd's. Installing them on my PC, my family members PC's. I remember several months ago when it was announced that all the folks that held out purchasing DM would now get free access to all the DM content and it wouldnt cost them a nickel. I spent 120 dollars to upgrade everyone's accounts. Now I will have to do it again, or more depending on the expansion cost. And how long will it be before the content is released for free? That's the only thing I didnt agree with that revolved around the expansion pack.


Sunjhi

[Yinchi]

Sunji, I am in the same boat, 10 xp packs to buy. I did it once, this time, IF I buy ToD, it will be one account. This will be true of a lot of multiple account holders, the price increase of 12.95 was not much for those with one account, it hurt for multiple account holders.

The problem is.... those who have multiple accounts usually have them intertwined in some way. Mine are intertwined with rank for our mansion, they also hold the clan treasure. My account only holds what I have earned.

Perhaps Turbine will recognize this and give some type of price break. It would be better to give a discount than lose all those accounts.

[God Slayer]

oh yea cause 3 years ago when you bought those cd's are really hurting you now.

please.

and I remember poeple hateing acdm because it only offered Houseing the Island is a joke because a few months before we got the jUngle island which was way cooler.

personaly i'm happy about this one so far, graphics are gonna rock cause even higher textures will make things actualy look nice. new models would help too.

so as of right now i'm sure things will be fine.

so long as they dont' add housing again ;)

[Sunjhi]

oh yea cause 3 years ago when you bought those cd's are really hurting you now.

please.

and I remember poeple hateing acdm because it only offered Houseing the Island is a joke because a few months before we got the jUngle island which was way cooler.

personaly i'm happy about this one so far, graphics are gonna rock cause even higher textures will make things actualy look nice. new models would help too.

so as of right now i'm sure things will be fine.

so long as they dont' add housing again ;)

Yes it does affect me now, because people now get it for free. And NOW it starts all over again. That IS an issue.

That "way cooler jungle island" (assuming you meant Vesayen Islands) was in game a LONG time before DM was announced or released. I'd say about 2 YEARS prior to DM.


Sunjhi

[God Slayer]

uh.. no actualy it wasn't.

it was done at the end of the shadow wars.. which was a year into the game.. a year after that dm hit the stores.

And it only starts all over again because you have that many accounts.

IT's nobodies fault but your own.

And The only reason it was important before to have DM is to get on ML (cause you got an extra experiance point) and housing

Housing has been eaten up long long ago.

so really turbine did a good thing by allowing everybody access to DM.

helps the game out.

stop complaining

[Eruditus]

Well they screwed up the housing system for one, there were numerous problems over the first few days, discriminated against the European players in terms of housing etc etc etc

There were a lot of problems with DM, the thing is though that in DM none of the integral game-play systems were being changed and this is why people are asking questions.

Perhaps you should look at exactly what people are asking about (and receiving no feedback I might add) as most are generally positive about most of the changes but there are 2-3 issues that stand to significantly upset how our current allegiances work.

In a game where many have been playing for 4-5 years there are very strong friendships and this is what most Monarchies are built on, if due to the changes there was a problem which meant I was taken out of my monarchy and unable to reswear in (which would currently be the case) I can say with all assurity that this would be the end of AC for myself and many of my vassals.

Turbine knows that it is friendship that has kept people in the game long after new and argueably better games have came out, I personally cannot understand why they would screw this up... who knows maybe one day a Dev will drop by to explain their reasoning or even to say they are considering changes based on feedback.

I have no objections to people having levels based on their exp but I dislike the unnecessary drawbacks of the implementation they are currently considering.

The AC team that was involved in the development of AC2 were arrogant and ignored the feedback from the play testers and as a result the game was and is a flop, Id like to hope that the AC1 team would not make the same mistake.

[ApolloAce]

Nothing has changed.

You can't, even today, swear to a lower level character.

Folks should look at how this game is constantly, and has been constantly, changing.

Everytime a large group of folks counts on something remaining the same something happens and it changes, then we have to sit here and listen to complaints.

Stop expecting things to always be the same and that wont happen.

If folks are really part of the family, then the family will work together to include them. If they don't then it's not much of a family anyway.

You don't have to be in the same monarchy to be friends or family.

[God Slayer]

How will these additions change anything?

look.. i dont' think you understand this.

lets look at how this works

i'm level 20 i get a vassle he he's level 16, i dont' play for a while and he passes me.. I'm still his patron.

so when he's level 126 I can be whatever lower under level i want and he'll still be my vassel so long as i don't unswear.

so when monharchs are turned into whatever level their supose to be when the new expansion comes out they will still be monharchs

Unless people start going out on their own.


and if your a tight family and something happens to a player where he accidentaly releases himself from the group and can't get in because he's too high a level, then make him the monharch.


simple as that.

If anything this 275 level cap, is just a very small thing in this game.


i cant' see anything else breaking appart aliegances.

[AnotherDude]

I love ACDM - still here aint I?

I just HOPE they release the expansion in Australia at the same time it is released in the States, and not a whiles later.

Cheers.

[Eruditus]

"and if your a tight family and something happens to a player where he accidentally releases himself from the group and can't get in because he's too high a level, then make him the monarch."

Not everyone has the time or aptitude to be a monarch, and with over 500 active members it takes a lot of time which I no longer have. Coupled with that we have the problem of the mansion, I would not like to give up my cottage and Im sure my monarch would not like to give up the mansion.

You are right that you do not HAVE to be in the same monarchy to be with friends or family but it makes it a whole lot easier since the number of friends slots are extremely limited, most of us gather at the mansion between quests and hunting and most importantly the Allegiance channel that allows us all to talk while we are hunting in different areas (vital when some people will be at caul, others in Vod and some just coming upto their first G-Man on a new character). As stated there is no other Monarchy on Dearth I have any interest whatsoever in being a member of.

To claim nothing has changed is foolish, everything has changed and what I would like to see are further changes that will protect the social dynamic of the game.

[ApolloAce]

If folks took advantage of the fact that Turbine (at the time) had a level cap they couldn't surpass, to swear in folks far higher XP, to someone lower XP, that was thier choice of course.

Now the cap can be removed and the past rules still apply (i.e. a higher level char cannot swear to a lower level char).

As to the social dynamic of the game, either folks are friends or not. If folks wont make the extra effort for a friend, thats not much of a friend in my book.

[God Slayer]

i don't understand

unless you unswear yourself you'll still have the same monharchy


and what apollo said.

if you took advantage then it's your own fault.

deal with it and move on

[Yinchi]

God Slayer, what if your patron broke, you wanted to stay in the clan you are in now but you are too high level, no one can take you. What then? It is not a matter of "it's your choice".

Apollo, we have people now who are level 126 with someone 148 under them because the 148 leveled faster (of course,this is treestats levels). It is how it has always been. You could have been a level 2 when a level 1 swore to you, you are now a level 48, he is 86.

What difference does it make if a 148 swears to a 126, post expansion pack, it is virtually the same thing. No difference what so ever.

Only the principle changes, the effect remains the same.

[ApolloAce]

There is a difference Yinchi,

Your own example,

A 148 sworn to a 126 will be the same as a 86 sworn to an 48.

If the 86 broke he couldn't reswear, the same will apply to the 148.

Like I said before, if folks expected 126 to be the cap forever and used it to take advantage of the situation, they really have no complaints.

There was a time when other things have always been that way, allowing UCMs, allowing money macroes, allowing xp to passup far up the chain, speed hacks and so on.

Just because it used to be that way doesn't mean it was gonna stay that way, just ask the UCMers and the Chainers. :)

[God Slayer]

Apollo speak good!

just deal with it.

and a monarch should probably be one of the highest in the group anyway.

[Eruditus]

Probably a troll but please explain why you feel that the ability of a monarch is somehow determined by his level... though if you do believe that it could explain the view of both appolo and yourself.

[ApolloAce]

Eruditus,

I don't say that level applies to ability to be a Monarch.

I've actually know several individuals below 126 (For that matter below 100) that were very good Monarchs. The fact that they couldn't recruit folks lower level than them had no affect on there ability.

I say a friend would understand and do thier best to help out. Would it take a while? Of course.

[Yinchi]

Apollo, there are two issues here. One is the inability to swear back into your clan if you patron broke and you were too high level.

The other is earning xps from someone higher than you. A 200 sworn to a 126, for instance. If they were still in the clan pre xp pack, this would still be the case, it would not change, the 200 would still be sworn to the 126. We will always have people higher sworn to lowers.

Apollo says "If folks took advantage of the fact that Turbine (at the time) had a level cap they couldn't surpass, to swear in folks far higher XP, to someone lower XP, that was thier choice of course.

Now the cap can be removed and the past rules still apply (i.e. a higher level char cannot swear to a lower level char)."

I was referring to the latter case. Post pack we can't swear highers to lowers but there will always be highers sworn to lowers, things won't change with the pack. .

[morrigan]

People did not take advantage of swearing a "higher" to a lower "level". According to Turbine, NOT treestats, the level was only 126. There was nothing more above that.

It was not a game bug, and it was not anything people took advantage of. It was the level cap put in place for how long now? Monarchs who were 80 and had a 100 sworn to them understand how the break would disrupt and cause a loss. However, those that are 126 knew that the "official" level would not. Why? Because Turbine had a 126 cap. Everyone that tosses around well I am level 130, 150, 200, per treestats you may be, but for game purposes and when you are ID'd, you are only 126. So, there was no "taking advantage". As treestats is atm only a 3rd party plug in, not the game itself.

These players played within the game mechanics. Now turbine wishes to change that. So whether or not I agree with these changes isn't the point. If there were no level adjustments and when xp pack came out, then I would say, oh great change,Turbine only saw 126 and can move forward from expansion pack on, gives everyone same opportunity. And no one would have to worry. However, that would upset the apple cart once again for those that relied on the virtual number of treestats.

Casual players that played to get to 126 to ensure smooth sailings for their group worked to get it there to eliminate these problems. They knew they no longer had to worry if some members wanted to be "xp" hounds :) or if they wanted to just be casual gamers in their group. Now, these same casual players who are monarchs, if they wish to avoid these potential problems, have two choices. (and since those choices are my own personal thoughts, I won't list them)

I agree with other posters, it just needs to be looked at a bit more. After all, isn't that what keeps this game great, every player has the opportunity to voice an opinion about what makes it great for them? Wow talk about feedback for developers!

THere are some who don't care who the monarch is as long as it keeps the group together. They will reshuffle and do what they have to for their group.

Then there are other monarchies who feel their monarch IS what keeps the group together.

From the way I am reading, it is more than just one group here in AC that feels that way. I can see how groups that have been formed for years would have connections to that group for a variety of reasons. Speaking with other players outside the realm of this board, I have pretty much heard 50/50 on this. Some say well cap changed, go with the flow. Others saying well if that could/would happen, what would be the sense of being here.

There is no wrong or right answers as to who should be monarch. And this late in the game, I don't understand why this should even be an issue.

Someone talked about AC2 patron/vassal relationship. That may solve the issue well.

[God Slayer]

well you just need to deal with it

how about that.

crying isn't gonna change the 275 level cap.

just try to figure a way so you don't get left out.

[ApolloAce]

Lots of game mechanics have changed, this is nothing new.

As far as the alteration to XP for vassals higher than patrons. That defeats the purpose of strengthing the vassal/patron bump they gave to XP, if after the vassal outlevels the patron the percentage of passup drops off ... lol.

Course for most folks that will just affect thier mule/tinker characters.

Now that will cause a large stink once folks realize what your suggesting ... lol.

Folks are angry enough about having redo that set-up because of the XP passup changes, now you want to take away another supply of XP ... lol.

This should be interesting once it gets out ... lol. :)