Expansion changes from a NEW player's perspective. (long)

[Nightwing]

First of all, I want to state that I am new to this game, completely new. I bought a copy JUST because they were opening a new server and have been playing happily on Verdantine since opening day. I have read the proposed changes in the upcoming expansion and I am very excited about almost ALL of them. That being said, there are a few things I would like to add.

I am currently Level 87 on Verdantine, I have a couple vassals the highest of which has given me a grand TOTAL of 3.4 million EXP (being new to the game, I am not a patron. I do not know the game enough to even think of becoming a Patron for real, but I am finally getting close. He was L54 when he swore to me and I believe he is L55 now... This one character that has given me 3.4 million is a buffbot for my clan, the rest of my vassals are all mules and are not being actively played).

I do not UCM ever, I have been happily self buffing with Nerfus since day 5 or 6 of retail (I was doing it by hand before this, what a PAIN!!!). Was buffing L6/7's (the ones I found from drops) since approximately L40. (I think I have the best patron in the game. She has given me a lot of great pointers and I did a lot of research outside the game for my introduction to Verdantine.)

To give a perspective from a new player on the following:

Low level content

I have seen a lot of people saying that raising the level cap to 275 will preclude the development of NEW low level content, and this will inhibit the attraction for new players... Excuse me? I AM a new player. When I hit this game I was completely FLOORED by all the quests that currently are in the game. I have seen new quests come with each monthly patch and I havn't even scratched the surface of the ones that are currently in the game. Remember, since I am a NEW player, all of the quests in the game that I can do are completely new to me.

Medium Level content

Again, I was floored by the massive numbers of quests available to me in this game. See above explanation...

High Level Content

I heard about VOD and happily went storming out there to see what I could see. I killed my first L167 (a shadow something or other) at Level 47 solo. (took at least 10 minutes of me hitting him with every L6 spell in my repository, with a 95% resist ratio till I finally kept it debuffed enough and slowly ate away at its health till it keeled over and died. I was a 4 school mage, specialized in mana C and War only and was standing a little back on a sheer cliff overlooking the area. I could hit him with my arc spells but he couldn't hit me I trumpeted the kill info throughout the Clan channel and was so very proud of my accomplishment. Shortly after this, I got chased around by an Obliterator L900 and barely escaped with my life. Imagine the adrenaline rush... This all came to a stormy end when I ran across a Humongous Monongua who was easily able to keep up with me trying to run away and proceeded to plant me by stomping on my head

Since that first meeting with the interesting and varied creatures at VOD, I have been hooked on hunting there. I went and killed a lot of bugs, and I mean a LOT and finally got to a level I can hold my own verses a couple of these critters at a time (toe to toe this time) and am happily spending almost all my solo time there seeing what I can kill... (specing Life very soon, then VOD critters WATCH OUT!!)

Unfortunately, from all the research and what I have seen in the game, HIGH level content tends to be a little lacking. Once I hit L80, I was able to go almost anywhere and do almost anything with a couple like level members in a fellowship. 3 of us in a fellow easily went and took out the Dark lady, it was almost too easy. Maybe we were too high for this "Epic" quest to be a challenge? Can't wait to try the Ancient Brood Matron ? quest

I see the expansion as finally opening up and fleshing out the high end of the gaming content for AC and I am very excited about it.

Swearing to Patrons

I can see how a lot of people would be concerned about the upcoming change, but Turbine could EASILY stop all of the complaints by doing the following:

L126+ you are considered an "Elder" and can accept ANY level as a vassal... Are you telling me that a KING/QUEEN has to be better than all of his vassals, or a counselor under the king etc...? I don't see this as being a problem at all. Just make it so that once you reach Level 126 you can now accept swearing from anyone, be they L1 or L275...

UCM'ing

Wow, touchy subject. I have seen my share of people UCM'ing and am greatly disturbed at its proliferation in the game. I have never reported anyone for it, but I came close a few times. I know that a few of the UCM'ers I saw WERE reported and somehow still passed the test. (admin alarm? envoy alarm? Direct tell alarm? I don't know) It was blatantly obvious that they were UCMing when they were standing in one spot for hours, would not respond to ANY tells in local and did not complain, react, move etc... when the fellow I was in proceeded to stand there wiping out everything that spawned for over an hour... What this means for the upcoming changes? I don't really know, but I do have some suggestions... as follows:

Experience

I think quest experience should outweigh any possible exp gain from repeatedly killing the same mobs. Ways this could be accomplished...

Declining experience curve for constant killing of same mobs for greater than say 45 minutes, GREATLY declining curve... (or make it 55 minutes, the approximate max killing time for L7 buffs)

More experience for quests, less experience for mass MOB kill. Will promote what this game is all about right? Questing and etc... It is obvious that certain dungeons/areas of the game are very "Desireable" for standing there and mass killing, whereas other areas are not.

Rares

Hmmmm, as much as I have read the replies from Turbine how a UCM'er won't have a signifigantly greater chance of getting rares than I would, I have to disagree... If they are killing 2x the critters a day that I am then they are 2x as likely to get a rare drop...(I play a LOT, but all my time in game is not spent killing mobs, even so, the real ratio would be probably 4-10X the kills) This IS a signifigant difference to me, how can it be curbed or minimized? After much thought, I came up with a few ideas, threw most out and settled on the following...

Rares should be 100 to 1000 times LESS likely to be dropped from standard mobs, and normally dropped from final quest completion mobs, and special VOD mobs like the Obliterator, Humongous Monongua etc... that doesn't spawn repeatedly in the same place. (you know what I mean) the drop would be contingent on
A: Quest in Progress by the fellow members
B: Not lootable by someone not on the quest

Come on people, AC is all about the Lore, Questing, LOOT etc..., not standing around killing mass mobs for experience...

What this would accomplish:

There are TONS of quests in this game, a lot of them are ignored or just passed by because the final reward, be it EXP, Cool Weapon, cool armor, cool magic item, cool trophy, etc... are not deemed "Worth" the effort of doing the quest... This would make the possibility of a rare drop at the end a real enticement to actually DO the quest.

There are also a ton of dungeons in this game that rarely see people in them. Put a ending "Boss" critter in them that has the potential to drop a rare the FIRST time he/she/it is killed by someone solo or a fellow or even a 6-12 hour random possibility.

I am sure some genius out there could figure a way to make a UCM macro that could complete one of these quests, but OMG, get a life...

[Yinchi]

Nightwing, you played a different game than a lot of people coming to AC. You had a patron who virtually leveled you, you used a buff bot. I am not saying this is not the way to level, I am saying that not everyone uses that easy route. People complain about this quick form of leveling because those that use it, virtually know nothing about the game, I had a level 126 ask me what Aerlinthe was. Perhaps you took time to learn everything though, I doubt you had much time to explore too many quests for lowers.

Say you came to AC as a lower level, you buffed yourself, you had no vassals to level you. You loved to do quests, there are tons of quests from 1-50. But, as you said, they no longer have any meaning, you can buy armor, weapons, etc that far exceed any of the old quests. Some quests and dungeons that were meant for level 1-50 have been updated, they are no longer possible to do at that level, pfffhhhtt, you can't even run there without dying. People keep talking about all the quests that are available for lowers but unless you just love to do quests for a quest, the items are useless.

Ok, now that was with a level 1-126 span. What happens with a level 1-275 span. If developers had no time then, how much will they have now? We have bugs that are years old that have never been fixed.

We now have a leveling game with the advent of 275. We need to see something done for the veterans, is this it, I don't think so. I think AC will be changed forever from a roleplaying game to DOOM.

Night, how long did it take you to hit 87 with a patron's and a buff bot's help? It will take you 35 times that long to hit 260, the present highest player on all servers.

As you said yourself about rares......"Come on people, AC is all about the Lore, Questing, LOOT etc..., not standing around killing mass mobs for experience...". That applies to levels too.

[MaddyFF]

I think AC will be changed forever from a roleplaying game to DOOM.

It has been that way for many people for a couple of years now.

I disagree with your comments on quests. For a low level and working on there own there are many quests filled with lots of lore that are fun to do. Granted as you said the rewards aren't always the best, but the lore and fun of doing them is there for many of us.

[Deiwos_WE]

I have to admit Yinchi, your response confused me (not that THAT'S all that hard to do :p ). Nightwing wrote:

I do not UCM ever, I have been happily self buffing with Nerfus since day 5 or 6 of retail (I was doing it by hand before this, what a PAIN!!!). Was buffing L6/7's (the ones I found from drops) since approximately L40. (I think I have the best patron in the game. She has given me a lot of great pointers and I did a lot of research outside the game for my introduction to Verdantine.)

Sound to me like he *is* playing the game old-school style?!?

[Dieter McBain]

I enjoyed your perspective... WE don't see alot of new faces these days. It's nice when one does make his self known and actually enjoys the game.

[Yinchi]

I may have misinterpreted what he said, I apologize if this is true. He did mention his vassal was a buffbot. Perhaps I was assuming that he used that buffbot prior to gaining the level 6 and 7's that he is now using to buff himself. He said he was new to AC but is now a level 87, that is hard to do without some help, it depends on what is meant by "new".

"I am currently Level 87 on Verdantine, I have a couple vassals the highest of which has given me a grand TOTAL of 3.4 million EXP (being new to the game, I am not a patron. I do not know the game enough to even think of becoming a Patron for real, but I am finally getting close. He was L54 when he swore to me and I believe he is L55 now... This one character that has given me 3.4 million is a buffbot for my clan, the rest of my vassals are all mules and are not being actively played).

[Sunjhi]

Another problem is that a lot of the lower level, mid level quests arent soloable to a "new" player. They were fun back in the day, but how would one go about searching for people to quest with say for the shadow quests or even the BZ quests. I suspect all those that jumped ship to Verdantine would be able to do them, but the other servers are found drastically lacking in lower level characters. That is directly accredited to UCM and chains, however as Yinchi pointed out, a lot of non exploiter folks have acheived significant high levels that negate doing those quests. A UCM will reroll in a heartbeat. They can always get back up to where they want to be in a very short amount of time. The casual player would NOT reroll so easlily. Especially now with the spec/unspec, train/untrain options. So unless TOD is massively and aggressively marketed, the older servers will still lose out on lower end character masses. I can honestly say that I haven't seen a true noob come to Solclaim in well over 2 years. I saw a ton of rerolls coming in ACTING like noobs, I see friends bring a friend into AC, but the total noob? Not one in sight for eons. Unless TOD is placed on store shelves by the tons, I dont see a serious influx of new players coming to AC.

Nightwing:

If you did in fact start playing as a totally new player, and played with out bots or tweaks, and did do all of the low end lore quests and mid level lore quests, how is it you levelled faster than any old player did prior to the UCM and xpchain days? This game was over 2 years old before the first player hit level 100 as I recall. You say that you are currently level 87 on VT. VT has been open less than 4 months. me thinks you had a boost here and there. granted xp is better now, but if it's THAT much better, then it needs to be looked at HARD. 1-87 in less than 4 months is insane for reportedly doing it the "right" way, meaning they way it was intended to be done. You do realize that you are a higher level than my first Monarch ever achieved? He was a hardcore player that played 6-8 hrs a day, lived for the hunt and quest. He left the game at level 76. I'm glad you do enjoy the game so well. At level 87 you SHOULD be knowing nearly EVERYTHING about this game and under the old way you would have probably had around 100 followers under you. At level 87 you would have been HUGE.

It's so very sad to see that a person can get to level 87+ so fast and still not know enough about the game as to be an effective patron. That's levelling WAY to fast.


Sunjhi


edit: too early to type lol

[Fiction_LC]

I hope it brings in more new people. I kinda miss running to yaraq and seeing 20 newbs killing the cows lol. Ahhh just remember when you started playing right at launch when it was rare to see a level 30.

[Nightwing]

Nightwing, you played a different game than a lot of people coming to AC. You had a patron who virtually leveled you, you used a buff bot. I am not saying this is not the way to level, I am saying that not everyone uses that easy route. People complain about this quick form of leveling because those that use it, virtually know nothing about the game, I had a level 126 ask me what Aerlinthe was. Perhaps you took time to learn everything though, I doubt you had much time to explore too many quests for lowers.

Say you came to AC as a lower level, you buffed yourself, you had no vassals to level you. You loved to do quests, there are tons of quests from 1-50. But, as you said, they no longer have any meaning, you can buy armor, weapons, etc that far exceed any of the old quests. Some quests and dungeons that were meant for level 1-50 have been updated, they are no longer possible to do at that level, pfffhhhtt, you can't even run there without dying. People keep talking about all the quests that are available for lowers but unless you just love to do quests for a quest, the items are useless.

Ok, now that was with a level 1-126 span. What happens with a level 1-275 span. If developers had no time then, how much will they have now? We have bugs that are years old that have never been fixed.

We now have a leveling game with the advent of 275. We need to see something done for the veterans, is this it, I don't think so. I think AC will be changed forever from a roleplaying game to DOOM.

Night, how long did it take you to hit 87 with a patron's and a buff bot's help? It will take you 35 times that long to hit 260, the present highest player on all servers.

As you said yourself about rares......"Come on people, AC is all about the Lore, Questing, LOOT etc..., not standing around killing mass mobs for experience...". That applies to levels too.

Did you even read the post? Let me reiterate a few key points for you:

I have been SELF buffing since day one of the server, changed to using Nerfus at day 5 or 6 because I finally got my Nerfus-Buffus to work (was mashing buttons and clicking on a humongous spellbar before that to SELF buff.

I never once claimed to have taken the time to learn everything, in fact, I even stated that I had barely scratched the surface of the quests I was able to do.... Does this mean That I didn't play it the old-school way?

I came to AC as a Level 1, how much lower level can you get? (and EVERYONE else same day on the server was Level 1 also..... So how did I get "a patron who virtually leveled you"?

I love to do quests, I DID do quests!! I did not even scratch the surface of the Quests that were available to me....

I had no vassals to level me... I even stated that he was L54 (I was L70+ at the time, I did not mention that, but you should have known that I had to be L 54+ right?) and He has given me the MOST experience of all my vassals at 3.4 Million, Less than 10% of a level at the level I was at the time...)

Hmmm, Where can I buy armor/weapons/etc that exceed the ones I am getting as loot drops? OMG, I had a Bludge rending staff by L 32 (that I found as loot and self salvaged enough white sapphire for 1 bag of salvage, had a clan member tink that was LOWER level than I was imbue it for me after I buffed him with 6's, yes I buffed him... (at the time I also tried to get a fire, acid, crit strike and pierce rend, all failures, all from SELF salvaged material and SELF looted staves/wands/orbs...)

I ran to Ayan at L32, using portals and gateways, I still had a 26KM final stretch RUN to get there through a horribly hostile area. Is there a harder run than that at L32?

It took me 2 Months to get to Level 87 as a complete NOOB, self buffing with a good Patron's Guidance (which I tend to sometimes follow... lol). 2 months, playing for all intents and purposes the "Old school" way being self reliant for everything except tinks (I even did my own trinket jewelry with the minors I needed and Crit strike/Cripple wands. All of these were self salvaged/looted). At L87 I already feel that I am approaching the upper level content and exceeding a lot of it...

Also, read the portion I stated that I felt that experience for QUESTS should outweigh experience for MASS MOB Slaughter?


Now I have a question for you. You state I am not playing the same game you are, How? Did you purposely Gimp your character to make the Easy leveling game I play that much harder for you?

P.S. Got my L40 undies at L40 in a 2 person fellow (same level I might add), got my L60 undies at L62 in a 2 person fellow (within 2 levels of each other) and my L80 Undies at L 81 in a 2 person fellow. Got my Envis pincer, and Mutie pincer at the EXACT level I could (in a 3 person fellow all within 5 levels of me). What quest specifically are you not able to complete with a good fellow of (up to) 9 players around your level?

[hippiechick64]

I started the old way, was a true newb. I got my first buff at 35 and my second around 40. Then I started doing things not so old school. But it took me just about 4 months of 18hr a day play to get her to level 35 for that first buff. I truly did it the old school way, no alleg, no buffs, I wasnt a mage so couldnt even buff myself, no chain not even a vassal, didnt know about maggies or use it or any other web site. It was insanely fun and Ill never forget it. Theres NO way I could get to 80+ in that same four months as a true newb. But hey, thats just me, after all I am STILL a newb.
MJ

[Ariella]

You beat me to it. I was just gonna say, being in a fellow with 2 or 3 other people, you will make quite a bit of xp. Especially with a mage vulning, and a melee or archer working with you. I can definitely see making level 87 in 4 months on your own. :)

It's great to see some new blood having fun. AC does offer lots and lots of quests, for all levels. Sure, some of the rewards aren't as good as they used to be. But isn't part of the glory just being able to say, "I did it!!!".

I pretty much agree with you on the rest of your initial post. Except for the swearing thing. Too many people are auctioning off xp, and running mini-chains. The requirements on "only being able to swear to a character of the same or higher level than you" will stop these from happening so often.

OH, and just for the record...it's a Tremendous Monouga, or TM for short. :)

[morrigan]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't VT open in June?

[Sunjhi]

yes. June. I was being conservative with the 4 months thing, I didnt bother to check the actual opening date. However, it being LESS thatn 4 months is even more shocking that someone can claim to have done everything solo with 0 AC experience at all and achieve almost level 90. if it IS possible to do so, it needs to be nerfed ASAP lol. If I had been able to do this when I first started AC, I would have leftthe game 4 years ago after I hit 126. There woudl have been no point to continue.

[ApolloAce]

Thats why the level cap is being raised to 275 (200 billion XP) max.

That way they don't have to seriously nerf anybody or anything, because the nerfs usually bring out lots of folks to complain. :)

[Nightwing]

Well, I was and currrently am a noob to AC, I have learned a lot and done some interesting things. I was wandering around trying to figure out a new way to get to VOD (having given a madman some sake) and I came across a Huge fortress near a field of huge mutant flowers. (Lugian Stronghold I think). I asked in the Alleg channel and no one knew where I was talking about. I noticed the front door was targetable and proceeded to batter it down with my bludge rend staff.

No one in the allegiance that was online at the time knew anything about where I was and were asking me for updates. I was L78 at the time (if I remember right) and I wanted to explore. (I was SOLO).

I ran inside and found a place to stand with my back to a wall at the end of a corridor and barely survived the wave after wave of mobs till I finally killed them all (on the upper tier).. I saw a portal in the radar but had a long jump to get there, I decided to explore again.

I jumped down and ran straight to the portal, lugies and tummies chasing me and stopped inside, where the restricted area only allowed a coupole to hit me at a time. Fortunately for me, the lugies in front were not equipped with hollow weapons, so I let them beat on me while I killed the ones behind them that were. Again I barely survived them (I was afraid there was a hot drop and I was barely at half health for most of this battle, so I had to finish them off and heal up before I was willing to go inside.

To make this long story short, I entered the lugie stronghold SOLO and carefully made my way through it, constantly exploring the whole way and killing everything using a lot of divide and conquer tactics along with using cover and walls to my advantage. . Fortunately for me a couple more people showed up in a fellow and invited me to take on the stronghold commander. After a difficult fight (there were 4 of us vs the commander, his elite guards and pets (ooo, Guards had hollows *shudder*), I was able to loot a set of Lugian renegade leggings and a haub. I could wear the leggings immediately (having 200 endurance BASE already) but couldn't even think about wearing the haub. (a mage with 200 STR BASE?)

I liked these quest items so much, I went about modifying my character a little to be able to finally wear them both (sunday evening after a quick third trip to get a endurance to STR xfer crystal, I will be able to do so :).

Sure I havn't gone and done all the lore quests, I havn't completed every L10, 20 etc... quests. I have picked and chose which quests I went on and done some accidentally (see above) Frankly, If I went and did every one of the quests in this game, starting at the lower level ones and finally working my way up, I am sure I would be L126 long before I get to the L80 quests...


P.S. He may be called a Tremendous Monongua, but he looked Humongous to me :) (kind of hard reading the name when I am running the other way as fast as I can ... hehe.

P.P.S. I also call Siraluuns (I know that is probably spelled incorrectly) "Giant Turkeys"

P.P.P.S. Most of the quests I have copmpleted I was in a 2 person fellow, I have avoided 9 person fellows (been in a couple, didn't like it) . Most of my fight time (except my solo explore time where I do a lot of well, exploring :) and sometimes VOD Critter assassination) was spent in a 2 person fellow with myself and my patron. Lately it has been mostly a 3 person fellow, with my patron, a 2 year absent returnee, and myself.

[Yinchi]

I must say.... I am truly impressed, Night. For someone new to AC, never have been buffed by a bot, was able to evaluate how good the quests are for lowers/mid levels, level to 87 and do this all in TWO MONTHS! This is very impressive. :)

I am glad you are so enthusiastic about AC. I have played since beta, I still have much to learn.

[Sunjhi]

Thats why the level cap is being raised to 275 (200 billion XP) max.

That way they don't have to seriously nerf anybody or anything, because the nerfs usually bring out lots of folks to complain. :)


That's not why they raised the cap. Cap was raised becoause there are too many people currently at the current cap of 126 and it was time, past time to expand the game beyond that cap. It's still not right that you can blast from level 1 to level 87+ in less than two months and claim that you did it all by yourself with no help, and absolutely no knowledge of how AC works at all.
According to THAT claim, it's possible to blast from level 1-275 in about 5 months top, supposedly doing it with no help and no experience. That's pointless. If that's the way it is, all these xp treats, rewards and high mob xp should be drastically reduced. being able to hit max level that fast by any means seriously errodes the longevity of the game.

It should be that even if you do manage to use all the exploits, game designed bonuses/features and play 10 hrs a day, that you cannot get that high in level for at least 5 years. That's what is wrong with the game now is that people blast through levels too fast. There is SOO much low level and mid level content that hasnt been touched or barely touched in years. Granted that those lore events have passed on and perhaps the dungeons should be removed and replaced with new lore. However, things need a serious change if what Nightwing proclaims is true. That is exaclty why I absolutely refuse to help followers level. I will play and quest with them, I will fellow with them. I refuse to powerlevel them or boost them in any way. They learn nothing if you do.

Sunjhi

[ApolloAce]

As I said on another thread there are most likely multiple reasons.

What I mentioned could only be one as well as few others I have mentioned.

Some folks don't wanna be nerfed to all get go, some would like to move forward.

For folks that don't want to, well go ahead while the rest of us move forward.

If the only way some folks can have fun is to hold everyone else back, then this is the wrong game because obviously Turbine feels moving forward is the answer.

[hippiechick64]

LOL Yinshi I was going to say that. When I was a noob I did NOT know about fellowing, what it all meant and how to use it to its advantage. Never heard of these good xp caves. I did the Redoubt quest every day, 24 hr timer on it, cuz it was worth like 50k xp if you do the whole thing. WOW. I didnt have vassals, or a patron, cuz I wasnt familiar with how the allegiance thing worked and didnt know I COULD have a vassal and a patron let alone that they would pass me xp! I used the gems, you know the moonstone with focus 2 on it that you pick up off a shreth? And the sunstone with coord 1? Those gems. They were NOT salvage. Well I didnt know what salvaging was! If I had known I could get a tinked weapon I woulda. I used lilithas bow, that I died numerous times getting and took days to get, til I was level 35-40. And ate cheese and eggs and other food I found cuz I didnt know about healing/ stam pots and couldnt afford them when I DID find them cuz I was broke! Thats not all of it but that is a little bit of what a TRUE noob goes thru when they get in game. I stop considering myself as doing it the old school way at 35-40 (bad memory) when I got that first buff. When I met my patron he gave me a CS bow and OMG my whole world changed. He taught me SO much about the game, about online help sites (ie Maggies), how to buff, gave me good armor. After that it was NOT old school. Oh well, I ramble sometimes LOL
MJ

[Sunjhi]

Today's noob experience is as such:

Patron: Ok, Click on the icon with 2 heads on it and target me. Then click swear to Blah'Blah in the blue window.
Noob: Ok
Patron: Ok, now type @house mansion_recall
Noob: k
Patron: this is our mansion, dont go inside, no need, besides you will get lost.
Patron: this is our buffbot, Sir Buffs-a-lot, use him when you need buffs.
noob: what's a buff?
Patron: magic spells that make you stronger
noob: k
Patron: k, tell Sir Buffs-a-lot Archer
noob: how I do that
patron: type @tell Sir Buffs-a-lot, archer
noob: k
(2 minutes pass, noob is buffed)
Patron: ok, here is some armor, some weapons and stuff, put it all on
Patron: now take out that max tinked +166, +15md AR bow and I will buff that for you
Noob: ok
patron: ok, lets get u sum lvls
noob: k
You are now level 2!
You are now level 3!
you are now level 4!
you are now level 5!
you are now level 6!
you are now level 7!
you are now level 8!
you are now level 9!
you are now level 10!
you are now level 11!
you are now level 12!
you are now level 13!
you are now level 14!
you are now level 15!
you are now level 16!
you are now level 17!
you are now level 18!
you are now level 19!
you are now level 20!

Patron: k, lets go get you a house. Here's a writ and the item needed.
Patron: her's some cash too
you give noob 100 MMD note
noob: Thanks!
Patron: k let's get you to level 50 so you can fellow with us at VOD
noob: k
>>>4 hrs pass<<<
You are now level 50!
Noob: Woot!
patron: ok, I gotta go eat, but you play now with them guys, they will buff you.
noob: k
Patron: you should be level 126 by next weekend, then we can do a quest or somethin'
noob: cool, can we do the Fenmalain quest? I read about that, looks kool. I like the sheild that you see through.
patron: we dont waste time on that stuff, we do the stuff you get xp for.
noob: k


My my, what FUN noobs have these days.

Sunjhi

:)

[sylphia]

Funny but this is how *I* see the newbie experience in AC now:


Joe Newbie sends Drudge Skulker to the lifestone so hard, his ancestors feel it!

Mr Old School say, "Hi, how ya doin'?"
Joe Newbie says, "hiya. doin' ok I guess. These guys are pretty tough!"
Mr Old School smiles.
Mr Old School says, "Yeah I remember back when I first started playing; I spent most of my time running from those things :) hehe"
Joe Newbie says, "hehe"
(a couple hours pass)

Mr Old School buffs Joe Newbie with a few spells to help him survive the onslaught of fierce drudges.
Joe Newbie grins.
Mr Old School says, "So have you looked into clans yet, or you one of those folks that wants to do it all yourself and earn your way through the game solo? :)"
Joe Newbie, "Dunno yet. I read the thingy on Turbine's website about allegiances, and it looks like alot of legal agreements just to meet ppl."
Mr Old School laughs.
Mr Old School says, "Yeah, they have tried to adapt that to give new players some idea of what many of the bigger clans look for. You will find that most smaller clans are much less "businesslike" about it."
Mr Old School says, "Our clan, for example. We like to get to know ppl first, before we ever offer them a place in our monarchy. We dont recruit using buffbots or phat loot or powerlevling and stuff."
Mr Old School says, "Anyone that joins you for stuff like that isnt really joining your clan; they are just "selling" their services to the highest budder."
Joe Newbie says, "whats a buffbot?"
Mr Old School says, "its an automated program that does what I just did..buffs you up so you can go out and hunt without worrying about casting your own spells. Except its automated so there is no real player to interact with."
Joe Newbie says, "Oh I see"
Mr Old School says, "Many clans use them as "recruiting tools". We DO have them, but we dont use them to recruit. It kinda spoils the newbie experience if you immediately go attach yourself to the nearest buffbot."
Joe Newbie says, "Is this any good?" (holds up a sword he picked up off a drudge corpse)
Mr Old School says, "Not bad. Thats better than the one you are using now, and its a FIRE one as well. You will do more damage to these critters with fire than with your plain sowrd."
Joe Newbie says, "So fire is better to kill stuff with?"
Mr Old School says, "Well its better to kill SOME stuff with. Different critters are weak vs different things. Fire is the most versatile, but there are some monsters that take **** damage from it."
Joe Newbie says "OK so I should keep this then?"
Mr Old School says, "Most definitely. As a rule, any time you find an elemental wpn of your type, you should hang onto it, or at least the best one of each type. If you have 2 acid swords that both do 6-12, you only really need one of them."
Joe Newbie says, "Yeah I got a couple of frost ones. Which one is better?" (holds them out in turn)
Mr Old School say, "OK now see those +'s on the wpns....?"

(A couple days pass)....

Joe Newbie has logged on.
[Allegiance]Mr Old School says, "Cool that newbie just logged on. I gotta scoot folks; promised I would show him how to get to ML today."
Mr Old School tells Joe Newbie, "Hey there little guy :) You ready for that road trip today? :)"

(Another day or two passes)
Joe Newbie says, "you remember a few days ago when we were talking about clans and stuff?"
Mr Old School says, "Sure". (vulns an Olthoi Gardener)
Joe newbie sends Olthoi Gardener to the lifestone.
Joe Newbie says, "I been thinking about it. I like you and the guys you introduced me to, and I would kinda like to join you guys."
Mr Old School says, "Oh thats easy :) I already had a chat with our monarch; thats one of the reasons why he wanted to meet you :) All you gotta do is read our Charter and agree to it, and you can join us whenever you are ready."
Mr Old School says, "Here let me get the URL for you..."



Nightwing, you dont have o justify yourself to the naysayers. Whether you soloes, gropued, or ran with buffbots is irrelevant. All that really matters is if YOU personally enjoyed your AC experience, without griefing and ruining it for others. Anyone who has played for any length of time (without their head burried in the sand) knows where to go to level quickly now, and they also realize that this information is now readily available to any newbie, especially if they have a patron to give them advice (as you indicated you have). You dont need to justify your level, your gear, the amount of XP your vassals have given you, or anything else you have accomplished. All that matters is that you ARE new blood in a game where we so desperately need it :) Go out and recruit a few more friends on the block to join too :D

[ApolloAce]

Right Sylphia, :)

To many folks these days are so wrapped up in what "use" to happen for everyone, that they get upset and angry when everyone doesn't do it "just that way".

Like the patron in your story says, find some folks you like playing with and enjoy yourself, because soon enough the n00b feeling will be gone. After that it's up to you to do what makes you happy (long as it's not against the rules ... lol). :)

[Sunjhi]

yes, I *AM* old school. And the little story Sylphia used is how *I* go about bringing in new recruits. WHEN there are actually some to talk to. Unfortunately, the mainstream does it the way I showed. Which by the way was done in satire to depict what a lot of new people experience when they arrive in Dereth. My point is that it needs to be slowed down. Slowed to a point to where they can actually enjoy the game. They now skip the game and go straight to the top levels. If that is your idea of fun, go for it. But look how much you missed in the meantime. 5 YEARS of content and you never saw it. You never learned about how the game characters work. You lose TONS on training that makes you a better toon driver. All of us old folks can justify 1-126 in a month or so. But we already did the process of learning, now it's about making a toon work to our design specs. I would NEVER PL a newbie or stick them onto a buff-bots teat. Experienced members reroll all the time and dont want to run the gambit again, That's fine. But 87 levels in 2 months? Have fun. Miss the adventure. DOOM/QUAKE mentality. Some like it, some don't. If that's all you want from AC, what's the point of paying 12.95 per month to do it when you can buy DOOM or QUAKE for 40/50 dollars, beat the game and toss it in the box with all the rest.


Sunjhi


BTW, my posting here has little to do with Nightwing and I welcome you to AC. I hope you dont think this is an any way derrogatory to you. I'm pleased you find AC fun and exciting. I just disagree with some of the methods you say you used when it should be a longer road to follow than that which you travelled:)


Sunjhi

[Unicron]

Today's noob experience is as such:

Patron: Ok, Click on the icon with 2 heads on it and target me. Then click swear to Blah'Blah in the blue window.
Noob: Ok
Patron: Ok, now type @house mansion_recall
Noob: k
Patron: this is our mansion, dont go inside, no need, besides you will get lost.
Patron: this is our buffbot, Sir Buffs-a-lot, use him when you need buffs.
noob: what's a buff?
Patron: magic spells that make you stronger
noob: k
Patron: k, tell Sir Buffs-a-lot Archer
noob: how I do that
patron: type @tell Sir Buffs-a-lot, archer
noob: k
(2 minutes pass, noob is buffed)
Patron: ok, here is some armor, some weapons and stuff, put it all on
Patron: now take out that max tinked +166, +15md AR bow and I will buff that for you


That's pretty much my experience when i started a new character on Harvestgain. I portalled over to marketplace and I was level 5 at the time and started asking out loud WHERE is Asheron? Why is he calling us? I need to see him so I can help him In a matter of seconds after saying that I received a /tell from someone asking me to pledge to him. I played dumb and said I didn't know what that meant and he broke out typing paragraphs to show me how to. I told him I don't know where the allegiance panel was and then he threw some shortcut keys at me and finally I budged and pledged to see what else happened. A few minutes after pleding he showed up on his mule handing me some armor (Decent stuff, nothing uber but stuff you pick up and would feel bad selling) I was then told to use the /mansion recall command and told how to operate the bot at the mansion.

I wasn't so lucky to get hunting or get leveled up but I think my experience is what the majority of a new players exerience these days. I'm sure there are cases where a patron won't help you out and want you to learn on your own but what ends up happening is that vassal goes to another patron because they are offered more! So you can't win getting vassals these days unless you got stuff to give up...theres always some people who don't care about what you give them and are more about friendship but its really hard to find those people...and the fact that there isn't too many newbies anyway its hard to invest the time into someone knowing they just might want free stuff and log off to never see you again.

[ApolloAce]

Folks I'm old school to.

I never fell into the trap of needing websites or extra programs to enjoy AC.

But, to expect folks to fit some restricted mold just because thats how someone thinks it should be is pushing it.

When you run a test fully expecting a certain outcome, you will of course get that result because the way you go about it is designed to get just that response.

[Bluntmn04]

I can remember when i first started playing... about 3-4 months after retail release. I can honestly say those were the best days of AC. Half the people i know now dont KNOW thier patron.

I mean 3 years ago you would meet a person and would swear based on that person not on their buffbot or their items. I mean those were the glory days of AC, when you could hunt the citadel or auroch cows.

I wouldnt be surprised if anyone that started a year or less ago doesnt know where the cows are or havent even been t othe citadel. Its just sad everything is so loot driven and leve ldriven that noone pays attention to what made the game great in the first place.

Noone struggles anymore. You get buffed with 7's ( which imo were a bad addition as well) and go and kill something that cant touch you. Raking up ungodly amounts of XP. Its to the point now that it is irreversible unless ToD is a fresh start expansion. Which wont happen becuase of all the ******* and moaning that would come with such a move.

Well thats my rant, Just a disgruntled old nostalgic player I suppose :)

[sylphia]

I have been playing AC since literally a month after it retailed. Barring Beta (which was different from the final product in so many ways) thats wbout as "Old School" as you can get. The little blurb I posted above is, almost word for word, pretty much how every person I have ever recruited joined me. Finding true newbies has become much harder in recent years simply because the game hasnt been on the shelves. With it being back in circulation (though not yet at full speed), those players are starting to show up again. The reason why Clan A has been using bufbots and clan-quests and all the other "normal" recruiting tools to attract players is because the only TO attract have been other players who have already been in the game for years. As you say yourself, the real newbies are few and far between. Therefor, we cant very well be teaching "new players" bad habits, given that they arent new players to begin with. Most often they are established players with rerolls, loking for something new or different or just a change of scenery in their choice of clans.

A truly new player is fairly easy to spot. Its also pretty easy to spot someone "pretending" to be a new player. My place inthe game has always been as the "newbie helper". Whether the person is in my clan or not, and whether they end up joining me or not is really irrelevant. I like the feeling of helping the new guy experience some of his first hours in the game, helping him to understand how his skills work, and being there to answer the questions that plague them just like a 5 yr old child :) I dont push the little guy into getting uber buffed and running out to Olthoi Arcade or Monkey Lassel and powerleveling up to 50. For *ME* losing out on those learning levels is a tragic thing. What kind of player would I be today if I hadnt had my humble beginnings in Yaraq, scooping up apples to pay for comps to kill cows with, to get the beef to make soup with? :D

But I also recogninze that not every needs or wants to go through al the low level learning stuff. Some folks have played MMORPGs long enough to already have a good grasp on the simple basics, and they are just fine chugging through the first 50 levels and getting into the mid-high lvl content. Some folks need the hand-holding. I have learned to recognize the latter type and to seek them out. Experience has also taught me that, when I recruit someon like this, they become much better friends and much more "loyal" vassals than those I could recruit with buffbots and phat loot. They remember all the things I did for them when they were "young", and they pass them on when they recruit vassals of their own, using similar methods. It also means that, 5 years down the road, players I have recruited are still with me. Our clan isnt very active on quests and such any more, yet we are content to hang out and BS at the LS, or go on the oocaisional clan hunt, etc. When I got married IRL, half the clan showedup, including folks from as far away as the UK. That speaks volumes about the comaraderie in our clan, and the loyalty and friendship I have earned and reciprocate with each person in our clan.

I write all this, not to toot my own horn (honk honk), but to illustrate a point. The game is what you make of it. Different plp have different goals, be they powerleveling, getting the biggest number of folowers, doing all the new quests, or whatever. You get out of the game exactly what you put into it, and that includes the allegiance system. The only players that will be attracted to the "phat loot/buffbot recruiters" are those players that are interested in that in the first place, whether they are new players or old players. Eveyrone who joins the game has the ability AND the RIGHT to choose what playstyle suits them best, so long as it doesnt hurt anyone else. If you want to zoom from 1-126 in a month, knock yourself out. I prefer a more leisurely pace, but thats MY choice of playstyle. I have never worried over who got to what level first (execpt in private competitions between myself and other players), and I never will. The fact that multiple players hit 126+ on VT in a couple of weeks neither surprises nor bothers me in any way. Frankly, it took longer than I expected; those folks were slacking :D

Edit: here is a footnote for all the folks who seem to think that recruiting in AC has recently become all about what you can offer, as opposed to recruiting for friends etc. My first patron in the game gave me a tradenote and a couple swords and told me to go to the armorer in Holtburg and buy what I needed. He then ran off to go play with his higher level buddies. It was like pulling teeth to get any questions answered or any other help from him. Needless to say, I was not with him long after that.

I recall, even from day one, players trying to recruit vassals with thinsg like "I will give you a mattie coat if you swear to me", "I wil lhelp you PL to 10 if you join our clan". I can also recall seeing prospective vassals asking prosepective patrons what kind of armor and wpns and powerleveling they would provide if they swore in. These things are NOT new to the game. Players have been doing it since day one. Both ways. Its not new, and its not even any more prevalent than it was before. But in our gloriously filtered hindsight we see al lthe things that were "good" about the old days, and we carefully ignore al the things that were "bad" about them. Players treat each other essentially the same now as they did back then, with the execption that the playerbase WAS a bit friendlier overall back then. Recruitment tools havent really changed. The same players that want loot and buffs and pyreals to swear to someone, still want it. The same players who use those things as recruitment tools, and view a vassal's worhtiness of investment in those things solely based on that vassal's XP-earning potential, still view them that way. Those of us who set friendship and lifelong bonds above all of that, continue to do so. The only thing that has changed in all of that is the level of our toons :)

[Nightwing]

Oh come ON!! There is so much information out there about AC, Character templates etc... that HOW the game works is an easy thing for any Noob to figure out (especially one with a few MMO's under his belt and a LOT of Single player RPG's). I wanted to play a Mage, so of course I did research about the different magic schools, the different spells, the different character templates etc... BEFORE I rolled my first character on Verdantine. (I actually activated my Account a couple days before Verdantine opened (on Harvestgain I believe) to give a couple character templates I wanted to test out a workout, find where to get spells etc...

From what I read, What I wanted my character to do etc... I ended up with a modified custom Mage template. I started with 25 STR, 85 End and of course 100 focus and 100 self. The only thing I had speced from the start was mana Conversion. I started with Critter, War and Life (if I remember right, I might have had to wait a couple levels to train critter) and got ITEM as soon as I had the skillpoints. (I also speced WAR the second I had enough skillpoints)

Didn't know or use buffs till L35? Any perspective mage would be really negligent if they did not go and find out all the spells available to them as soon as possible. A simple question at Holt of "Where are the mages that sell spells?" would have netted me a quick answer even if my patron hadn't already told me. The first thing I did when I got there was read the spell descriptions of EVERY one of the vast amount of spells available to me. Not use buffs? are you insane? I am a MAGE!! Buffing is what I do (as well as kill stuff). I STARTED with L2 spells (I bought the ones also as fallbacks if the fizz rate was too high). It took a grand total of 3, yes 3 hunting trips to have enough to buy them all (of course my patron, a Sword Melee character helped pitch in, but she was the SAME level I was). Pyreals in this game are very easy to get and I have had no serious money problems.


The thing is, I was not power leveled by anyone, Sure my patron and I did a lot of dual fellow hunting (wow, Sword and Mage compliment each other in this game so very well, at the lower levels she was the main damage dealer for large combats, I buffed her Healed/stamed her etc..., fought when I could and she protected me... lol, I remember many fights I was chaincasting heals on myself with a stray heal or stam boost cast on her, while she picked the mobs off of me one by one), but since we were the same levels, I don't see this as her powerleveling me.

I hate to break it to everyone, but the cat is out of the bag... A new character to this game will NOT be able to have the experience of being completely clueless, wondering what quests are, wondering what buffs are etc... ( at least till L35) unless they are completely Blind, Deaf, and "Avoid all social interraction in this game. Sorry, its not going to happen...

That being said, AC, the Game I am playing is very fun, Very exciting, and Full of lower level and medium level content. Maybe that content isn't the same as you remember it but it is completely NEW and FUN to me...

[Lord-of-Light]

Yinchi, I have to disagree -- at least in part -- with one of the comments that you made.

I'll be the first to admit that I don't do as many quests/quest as often as I think I'd otherwise enjoy doing. I'm lucky to be able to stick to my base goal of doing at least two quests a month (even though I have to fudge on that a bit, and re-do a quest I've already done with one char using another char instead).

And, while I make some effort to make sure that the quest reward(s) are of some interest to me and can be used by one of my chars, the reward (or rewards) is typically not the main reason I do the quest, but instead is just to have the experience of doing one of many that I haven't done before...or for a long while (especially those that have been revamped).

And, in that context, it really doesn't matter that I get buy a better item from a NPC, or have a better one tinked, or can trade for one. Instead, that is an item that I got all on my own, and is a memento of having completed that particular quest.

And I thinks that there are a pretty decent chunk of folks out there that do their questing much the way that I do, as well as a good number who take their questing even more seriously than that.

[Nightwing]

I would like to add that I am by nature a Collector. I have most of the assault weapons in the basement of my cottage mounted on the walls because they look cool :) I also have a Sword of lost light, Shield of something or other, a few otholi heads, a font of Joji, a Drudge fight crystal I got as a drop, and a airconditioner? lol A cool looking machine I got with some horribly ugly boots for doing the alloy quests, and a few trophies like Mutie heads etc... and am out of space :(


Anyone upgrading to a Mansion soon that would be willing to sell a villa cheap :) lol I need the Extra hooks for cool stuff on my walls :)

[Fiction_LC]

yeah newbs got it easy these days i remember leveling at cows back in 99 now its like they get the game and the next day your sitting in ayan and some guys talking your like who the hell is that lvl 126 some new guy who was PLed from 1-126 in like 3 days. i dont mind decal and all that i use it my self but people are getting to hooked on the use of bots half of them dont even play when decal is broke because they dont know how to play the game.

[hippiechick64]

You are absolutely right. He does NOT have to justify his game play manner to ANY ONE. And I have NO prob with the way he leveled. Just that he claims to have done it the old way and his old way and mine are MUCH different. I now use the new easy way on most of my new toons TOO so am not criticizing it at all. Although I DO reserve a few toons throughout the servers who still refuse to get buff,accept gifts or join an alleg. But that is all MY choice.
MJ

[Nightwing]

Immm, I have never recieved a Buff from a bot or anyone else BUT MYSELF. How is this any different from what you are talking about? The fact I did some research, realized I could cast buffs on myself as a mage, realized I should be saving some salvage and wands for imbues (boy was I in for a suprise when I tried to make a Armor Rending wand :(), taking Magic item tink, making my OWN minor trinkets to boost my skills, and then proceeded to do so makes my method not old school? Sure, I got a couple wands done by a Tink in my allegiance (I supplied both the Wands and the salvage to do so), I also had a standing offer from a high level tink not in my allegiance who would do it for me for free... (I did my crit strike and my Crippling Blow wands MYSELF) I might add that I, not a buffbot, buffed the tink that did my wands...

Lol, I see what people are saying about some of the Elitist attitudes. "Back in MY day, We had to kill Otholi Enviscerators at L5 with both hands tied behind our backs while gnawing on his feelers till he croaked, you young Whipper-Snappers have it SOOOO easy now..." - Sorry, but that is the way it comes across. The GAME itself is a lot different than it was 5 years ago. How Pray tell do you do an "Old School" character given today's game mechanics?


So, What is this New Easy Way you accuse me of using?


I am not trying to Justify myself to anyone, I am just giving my opinion and stating my experiences in the game as Proof that a lot of the complaints against the new higher level cap are a load of Hooey. This game has a TON of Low level content, a TON of Medium Level content, and a Little High level content... It is also very easy to Level to about L70, I have slowed down considerably since then. Lol, I could care less if my method is "Old School" enough for you, I am just stating Point BLANK, I am a new player, I have a character that is 95% or more SELF sufficient, have accepted no "Gifts", done almost everything to this point for for myself except a couple Imbues/tinks.


The only thing I could think would be more "Old Schoolish" would be to (pretend?) not realize the wands I am getting as drops are better than the starter wand, the armor from drops is not better than the stuff I can buy at a blacksmith, the gems I am getting as drops can be read for their effects as I salvage them (I salvaged them all at one time, till I realized that some of them are not used?). I could then "Pretend" that I don't know I can buy scrolls or sell loot, scrounge the few pyreals I find as drops and use only spells that have dropped off of mobs. I am glad this game doesn't have IQ as a stat, I think my character would be due some bonus points for being way below the expected rock bottom character IQ...

[Yinchi]

Night, we are not criticizing you, we are thinking how this game has evolved. At one time, it truly was an RPG, it is now a FPS. We remember how it was when AC WAS a RPG, we can see the difference, you cannot.

"This game has a TON of Low level content, a TON of Medium Level content, and a Little High level"

1)If you are speaking of lore, yes.

2)If you are speaking of quests, yes.

3)If you are speaking of hunting areas, yes.

4) Not sure what game you are playing but there is a lot of high level content.

now.... to really answer those questions.

1)The lore is still there.

2) Because level requirements are not on armor as they are on most weapons, because old quests for weapons were never upgraded or poorly upgraded, most quests for those levels are not worth doing. This is a fact. You can do quests just to do them, yes, but it gets a little stale after awhile to mule those items. So yes, there are a lot of quests for low/mid levels.

3) Hunting areas, I remember when all of Dereth was accessible to a level 50 including the dires. The hunting areas are growing smaller as time goes on, and this is for level 1-126. Now... what happens when you throw in the 1-275's? Who do you think will lose the most? It will be the lowers/mids.

4) They have updated quests for highers, they have upgraded dungeons for highers, Caul was upgraded recently to 90 from level 60. We have VoD. The quests for uppers have meaning, the items actually have a use.

The problem lies in the fact that people DO level too quickly in this game, when they get to those high levels, they are bored. Not because there is nothing to do but because they have EVERYTHING. They have uber weapons, they have uber armor, they have all the money they need. Raising the cap to level 275 will not relieve that boredom for very long. That is why Turbine needs to try a different Elder game, rather than simply a higher level cap.

[Nightwing]

Well, in doing my research on AC I came across some old documents about Spell Research? This was actually the first one I found and I was very intrigued by the concept. Not having lived it, I can still see how it could be a pain to do this research, along with the massive amounts of components you would have to carry to be able to cast a respectable amount of spells. Even so, I am sorry I missed those days, even if they were a pain.

I would have to agree that it is less of a RPG now than it would have been then. Add in all the Uber Leet Kiddies Spamming how they are the Roxorz and you are the Suxorz and constant Pvp pshychobabble chatter in local (Holt and especially Ayan are HORRIBLE) and it gets even less of an RPG. Then add in the people Standing in one spot for hours, not responding to anything in their immediate surroundings except the spawn of the next critter and Again, the whole concept of RPG nigh seems unobtainable.

This game has changed a lot from the Era of the (I think it was a Gamespy article on the game at release I read) genesis of AC and it is a completely different game now. I have to agree fully.

I have almost a complete set of Tummy assault weapons, Did I get these because they were useful to me? No. I got them because they look cool hanging on the walls of my cottage basement. My Bludge rending staff does a lot better job as my general purpose Tummy killer.

I accidentally found a quest and got a set of Lugian Renegade armor (Haub and leggings). I thought these were cool enough that I wanted to wear them BOTH, even as a mage. I then proceeded to do what I could within the game mechanics of AC to alter my character to do so. Does this make me a stronger mage (ooo, Pun NOT intended, Of course my Strength is higher, not my magical ability)? Then why would I do so?

AC is a RPG if you want to play it as an RPG. If you can ignore all those that are playing it as a whatever, and if you follow your own agenda and you play a role you have decided to fit, then to you it is an RPG.

The world is there, the quests are there, the lore is there, the content is there. Has the playerbase become so jaded, complacent or just plain lazy to see AC for what it is? It is a work of art. Unfortunately we have a lot of players painting grafitti across its surface, blemishing it asssuredly, but it remains a work of art.

I see the additions that Turbine has slated for the expansion pack as allowing the art to evolve. As all art, not everyone has the same tastes. Some will love what it evolves into, some will be indifferent, and some will be repulsed. How someone responds is completely up to them, but evolution is a fact of life. Without it, you get stagnation and decay. Perhaps the Grafitti artists I am mentioning are a result of such decay already in an advanced form? Trim the Decay, Let it grow.

With growth, evolution etc... comes new life. I have seen a lot of "New" Players in AC since I started. Sure some of them may have been just pretending to be new but I am sure some were not. What brought them to this game? What brought me?

I can tell you what brought me. I saw an older MMO being repurchased by its creators, I saw its creators had a spark of new life, new ideas. I saw the game as evolving. I want to be a part of its evolution.

P.S. Why has no one posted anything about my ideas about how to minimize UCM'ing and the Ideas about how Rares should be dropped? It seems all got caught up in the FACT I am a new player and it only took me 2 months to get to 80+ Most seem to still think I used buffbots that were higher level than myself (Even though I stated repeatedly I was SELF BUFFING since day 1) and a Patron that was higher level (started same day, still within 7 levels of each other) than myself to be "Powerleveled" to my current level.

P.P.S. I get it, its the point that I am a Macroer right? That I use Nerfus to eliminate the tedium of buffing myself and patron (she is also now 100% Self buffing anyway). Sorry, in my book, Tedium does not equate to Roleplaying. I did it the old way, mashing buttons, Using a woefully inadequate method of placing all my buffs I want in one spellbar, having a complete spellbar for me and one for others and one for items. This was Kludgy, this was Tedious, and this did a lot to frustrate my getting "Immersed" in Dereth. I was glad to be able to turn over this process to a utility. I would like to further state that I do NOT use any combat macros. I fight by mashing buttons and my fingers tend to have a life of their own when I am fighting. I have to watch my health, stamina, and Mana throughout combat. I have to time when I need a revitalize/heal/stam-to-mana etc...

[morrigan]

Night, welcome aboard, but I think the recommendations you wrote got lost in everything else :)

Perhaps you may want to attempt different threads to specifically get feedback on your thoughts of those ideas.

[Fiction_LC]

omg spell research was so old lol. I remember sitting in a meeting hall in the mana pool trying taper after taper to get the spell to work lol. And to crack down on UCMing would be hard exactly how would you stop it all? YOu cant have admins in every place at all times asking you could but then there would be less help to people who needed it.

[Ghetteran]

I think the main concern about the expansion's change in the level cap is the swearing issue. If that is addressed and altered, ( like you suggested or like others suggested, ( in the ac2 style ) ) Then 90% of the complaints will drop.

Personally I think in less than 4 months, you have done really well.
I have been playing AC since it was public released, I played a few other servers and ended up on Wintersebb, my oldest character on Wintersebb was creaed 8/11/01 and is only level 91. I am a casual player, I've done for myself on everything. No buff bot use on my main until I could fully do 7's myself. ( Hehe after that, I did set up a buff bot for our allegiance )
I tink all our monarcies weapons and armor. But it has taken me several years of a couple hours a night's playtime to achieve all that.
I think you have done really well.

It's true, that when 'we' were newbies, things were totally different.
trophy armors were what you desired, I camped a week killing nothing but matties just to get my best friend her first matty coat. I did that, at level 13 wearing al the chain bought from the store.
We learned spells manually ( like you read about ) it was very cool, I wish it had never of been hacked with "split Pea".... that plugin changed the game forever :/
When AC was released 120 AL was I believe the 'top' armor level.
at Level 9 I ran across the dires just to see what was there. ( ran mind you, not fighting hehe )
One of the problems oldschool players fall into, is this;
We just see our 'goal' in sight, and something is changed ( which may be for the better inthe long run ) and we cannot 'meet' our goal now.
I think the orginal cap was 75th level wasn't it? *cant remember *
I was 28th level on another server, when they changed it the first time, it did not effect me then.
Now, I am 91st level on my current server, what does the level cap change mean?
It has messed with my current allegiance stucture.
I will not be able to achieve 126th I am sure, by the expansions release.
Let me explain my delima;
When I came to Wintersebb, I created my monarchy for my 'monarch/patron'
on our other server she was my vassal, but she is my best friend and I wanted to build the monarchy for her.
So we created it, neither of us powerleveled we are casual players, we met a fellow that loved to play and level, he swore in to our group and liked being within our small group. However, he is in a different timezone from us, and eventually made friends he could hunt with more often, and when they mentioned they was to make a xp chain he deleted one character and swore into thier chain. Some time after he achieved 126th level he wanted to come back to our group. Our Monarch, she wanted all us back together again, ( one happy family :) ) so she told him he could co monarch until he could swear back into our group ( meaning someone else in our bunch had to hit 126th ) I was 70th level when this happened. Also, our monarch has suffered from illness keeping her out of the game she loves, so she has not been able to work on her character.
Vassal passup 'was' keeping her 6 levels ahead of me but when the change to loyalty and leadership was put into effect, that dropped. I have since passed her in level, she is 81st level now.
When the loyalty chage happened her direct vassals raised up the loyalty as did I, and we tried to push her forward.
No avail.
So, my current thought was to try and get 126th with myself. I surprisingly for me, did some leveling treadmill style, ( same place same hunt etc etc very boring ) and got to the level I am now, thats when I read about the level cap, ( I know it is for the best in the long run but still hehe ) and reading that, sorta took the steam outta my sails.
If I cant achieve 126th before the cap change, then the monarchy we created for one person, will have failed.
My hope currently, is that Turbine will change the allegiance structuring system to like that of ac2, in ac2 anyone can swear to anyone else.
(( and before soemone flames me and says 'go 2 ac2 thin d00d' I want to state, that I play this game, because of my friendships both IRL and in game with people on my current server, and not all of us are capable of playing ac2 on the current computers they have... ))

You see, I personally enjoy taking my time leveling slower, I have been able to do more quests and see more things in game than most powerlevelers ( with the exception of level driven content ) Like others have said, this game has evolved into a first person shooter, instead of a RPG. Thats true, it is almost impossible to find roleplayers.
For a time, I was involved with a group of Roleplayers on Wintersebb, but currently none of them are roleplaying in game. SOme have moved on to other games or other servers. ( vt )
We used to take time to try and 'see' all the quests, we would tailor our 'players' lore to fit the quest, we'd spend 15 minutes before the quest usually in chat ( in character ) and usually a half hour afterwards in character chatting about what we had done. I miss that sorta stuff.
Treadmilling is a cause of this, though, how do you reach a balance?
it is nearly impossible to do that. Turbine has done really well trying for a perfect balance, but you cant please everyone.
powerleveling/treadmilling has never been my style of play, I would rather sit at my cottage and wait for a friend to come on to hunt with, than treadmill. It gets tedious and boring to treadmill.

I still like AC tons!! but, I am looking forward to the expansion, because, I need an infusion of 'newness'.

You being new to the game, I would say, keep up the pace, with your main character, dont make characters that are strictly 'mules' make them playable, and from time to time unmule them, and send them out hunting, some of your best fun will be exploring the lower level content, ( even if it is just to collect items for fun )

one of my nephews decided to start playing, he played for a month before he burned out on the game, ( at level 60 )
He got level 60 in two weeks, treadmilling in Phyntos Menace, he then quit playing and eventually let his account expire.
I asked him to explore with me, to quest with me, but he wanted to level.
After he quit I asked him what all he saw, he said " Olthoi and wasps"
*chuckles*

I am really glad you as a new player especially, self buff.
Buff bots are nice occasionally but, I like to see a self sufficient player, and you achieving 78th by yourself, is a great accomplishment.
congrats.

The unattended macroers thing, well I agree treadmilling should some how be less desireable than lore gathering missions or quests, but I dont knwo if that is possible.
The bad thing about an evolving game, is that, it has so many key stones, and when you remove one, it can cause the bridge to collapse.
Your right it is a touchy thing, We dont want the macroers, but, if we hamper a non macroer, that just treadmills, we might upset the turnip cart too.

The rare drops, well, it isnt so much a problem with the macroer getting them, but more, that the macroer will lose them forever for everyone.

Macroers kill and leave bodies everywhere. and if you have fought more than one critter you know that bodies stack and are hrad to access the bottom body.
If a Rare item is dropped infront of a macroer in a pile, most likely it will vanish, and that rare % of a drop will have been lost.

People will have to change thier play style somewhat.
People will 'need' to open every corpse to check.
I notice this when hunting in a large group in VoD or on a quest, you have a leader wanting 'experience' or 'the trophy' the leader says " dont loot or you will be dropped from the fellowship"
Which I find really rude and really annoying.
( consequently why I dont oftent hunt in groups more than 2 others and myself )

I do have a question abotu rares, and that woudl be, if they are deleted by the server, does it cycle back into the loot generator so someone still might get a chance at it?
I can just see it now, ( hehe ) the complaints that one server doesnt ever see a rare, and find out it is because of macroers causing them all to be deleted by the server.
The quest in progress thing, isnt really a good idea, alot of people solo quest, and how will the server determine if they are questing or macroing.
Not to mention I have seen macroers all in a fellowship.
The reason for having it be an equal chance of a drop from 'any' critter, is just for that reason. If a drudge prowler stands the same chance as a falacot of dropping a rare item, then you wont have a macroer stuck in, at one spot macroing away for the rare.
Now, I 'do' think quests of all levels should be made abit more desireable.
Finishing the quest should amount for soemthing other than a useless trinket.
Make the item gained by the quest, something that you could turn in to a collector for an experience award ( or plats or something ) If the item was not usable by you, or not powwerful enough etc etc.
The main problem with current quested for items, is that they were created for 'oldschool' and now the world has evolved, with tinkerings and armors all 10 times better than the loot item, and all available at level 1 in the right circumstances.


It would be nice if roleplaying was some how rewarded ( in any way )
But I dont see how that would happen.

Well I rambled on long enough. Just a few of my thoughts, from an 'oldschool non powergamer' Roleplayer.
:)
Well done Nightwing, great job in your accomplishments ;)
and some nice ideas as well.
~Ghett

[Ariella]

Nightwing -

SPELLS - You mentioned the old spell research you stumbled across. Back when this was in place, the highest level spell that could be cast was a level 6. Level 6's lasted for 20 or 25 minutes I think. And the lower level spells were less time! Heck, most of us that played then, could never buff and bane with full protects. Even scraping it down to just bludge, blade and pierce left you a whopping 10 minutes of hunting time. After that 10, you were a defenseless babe in the woods so to speak. :)

ARMOR - talk about armor...hehe. If you found any armor that's AL was 150ish, that was some awesome armor. Heck, I think I ran around in AL 90 till level 25 or so. I built up a set of armor and underclothes to get me a full set of life 6's. I was a dagger chick back then, melee and there's no way I could've cast any lifes on myself. Talk about the mana burn then! Whew!!! And money/valuable stuff didn't drop from critters much. 7 py on a lugie with junk.

Anyhow, as you've said, things are much different today. From what you've described, you've done it about as "old school" as you can get. You can't turn back the clock to experience the "stuff" as above. So just keep playing, and have fun. There's many more adventures ahead of you. :D

I think you have some good ideas for experience tied with quests. The only problem with that would be the camping of boss monsters, and line jumping. Once you go to a brand new quest on update day, you'll totally understand what I mean by line jumping.

It used to really be bad going for evis pincer, when only one bug dropped the pincer. Higher levels (I was 60) would come in, not want to wait, outkill me, take it and go.

Putting a timer on "mob killing" - I dunno. Sometimes I've gotten stuck in an empty tusker dungeon and trapped. Had to kill them to move on. Or got lost...hehe. (Personally, I run around with dungeon ineptitude XVII on me at all times.) Sometimes it takes me longer than 45 minutes to find my way and get my goodies. I don't think I should be penalized for that.

As far as the "rare drops" go, I'm just gonna wait for them to come out, and see.

my 2 py...

[Yinchi]

Ghetteran, I enjoyed your post, it brought back many memories, thank you for sharing. :)

Night, someone on this board (Borderline, maybe) had a wonderful idea get rid of macros. I will post it when I find it.

Edit: Found the post by Borderline. http://forums.ac.turbinegames.com/showthread.php?t=12722

There is a new game coming out soon (I won't mention names) that is quest based, you earn a few xps from critters but the main will be gained for doing quests. AC doesn't have that capability unfortunately. The closest thing they have done is to be able to turn in useless items for xps. I think they did a good job with that and I hope they continue. I just wish they would do it more for low/mid levels as opposed to higher. Turning in the gman sword was a good idea, this will help tinkers and trade mules.

But this again leads to more xps, not a useable quest item. :(

The problem with playing the "old fashioned way" is finding people to do it with you. You are using your low level buffs and low level armor. Some quests take several people, you can't solo them unless you have uber armor and buffs, this defeats the purpose. Anyone remember the Simulcra shield and helm? The quiddity orb? :)

Anyway, if anyone wants to hunt with a level 15 bow who only uses armor she finds on critters, uses her own buffs, never accepts gifts, look me up. :D