Prophecy stone?

[Chrono]

It would be easy to guess at what many of the symbols mean, a couple however are vague. Beyond that, what is the overall message transcribed on this stone (http://hofpictures.4t.com/AC1/stone2.gif)?

I'll hold off my opinions to start with..

[_b0o]

its a rare and elusive picture of PacMan from the front, he hates how he looks so usually u cna only catch a profile shot of him.

[Gustaive]

It's a Petroglyph.

Why did the highly advanced Empyrean leave so many primitive carved stelae behind? Some scholars speculate that the Olthoi so thoroughly disrupted Empyrean culture that it regressed to a pathetic Stone Age condition, but Alatar Locke submits that this cannot be. Rather, he interprets the petroglyphs as an intricate taunt, calculated to disturb the peculiar visual apparatus and minds of the Olthoi.

In his famous treatise The Brain of the Hive, Locke states that an Olthoi queen gives instructions to her minions through a kind of dance, and posits their suggestibility to glyphs that recall its postures. Though limited in power, a petroglyph may render an Olthoi uneasy, or even so injure its self-esteem that it returns to the queen, crestfallen, for reassurance

[Cerulia]

Well, 1 might be BZ (A man, illservian, with the demon behind him), 2 looks like an olthoi and 3 kind of reminds me of an aun tumerok...

4 is clearly a fat man. And 5 is either an alien Grey, or a man with a knife.

Most likely this stone is a warning of the dangers of fast food, and a warning about the coming (Back when it was carved) nerf of triple-strike...


... I've tried to guess before, but 3-5 have me stumped ^_~

[Silifi Of Death]

1=Virindi
You can see a man-like figure, a sort of mask behind, but look closely at the right arm and you can see a sickle.
2=Olthoi
3=Tumerok
4=Lugian
5=Human

6 probably represents portalspac itself. So overall this represents the powers of portalspace bringing five powerful species to the world.

[Ashbringer]

Where was this stone found? I looks familiar...

Sifili's response looks correct although the Virindi might be BZ.... dunno.

[Mal the Mad]

I remember the stone as well, i just forget where, btw rotate the center image 90 degrees left and look at it again, a distinctive AC, but again i forget where frore maybe?

[Chupon]

This stone is in alot of places, floating city for one.

[Gustaive]

The answer is here (http://ac.warcry.com/lore/texts/?cat=%3Fcat%3D9&keyword=brain+of+the+hive) .

[Chrono]

Gus, you have no proof that's a petroglyph. If it where designed to imitate an Olthoi dance, why is there only one Olthoi? Also, who wrote that article and where is their in game source?

[Uzi-El]

The original source for the article is here (http://classic.zone.msn.com/asheronscall/news/ASHEportalstele.asp).

[Chrono]

I find it sad it's so easily explained away.

[Cerulia]

Well even if it IS a petroglyph, we can still guess what the little pictures represent.

Silifi, I think you're probably completely right about them all (Well, still not sure on number 1, just can't see the virindi myself). I was always getting stuck because I was trying to interpret them as the five sendings of darkness ^_^

The only possible problem with that interpretation (And it's not a good problem, since it relies on out of game stuff), is that these things have been around since retail (I think?), and I don't think the tumroks and lugians had the same sort of significance they have now. Who knows though, it's always hard to tell how far those tricky devs plan ahead!

[Silifi Of Death]

As far as I know, Tumeroks, Lugians, and Humans have always been the only real sentinent races. Drudges, Banderlings, and Mosswarts are far too primitive, Shadows, Undead, and Virindi are supernatural, almost everything else is beast-like or not even biological (golems and fragments). Tumeroks always had a big role as our enemies, as for Lugians, I'm not sure.

As for Number 1, I'd prolly agree with you on BZ if it fit in with the rest of the puzzle. The spell that locked BZ was the same that brought us here, right? Maybe that could be the connection.

[Uzi-El]

The spell that locked BZ was the same that brought us here, right?

No, the spell that sent the Empyrean into portalspace brought us here. The biggest side effect of the BZ imprisonment was the creation of the Obsidian Plains.

[Silifi Of Death]

Then I stand by the Virindi... Unless, of course, they came here before the portal opening...

[Xen]

If a simple stone with those visuals is enough to confuse olthoi, why this knowledge hasn't been applies in practice? Is there some dance (other than mage casting Shock Wave/Arc VII heh) that's when performed will scare away Olthoi?

Hm altough petroglymphs are suppose to "recall its[Queen] postures" and I really do not see how this one does it .. unless only large sign in the middle is of significance to Olthoi while those 5 figures on the side are of some ... different use/significance.

Oh, and figure on top doesn't look like Virindi to me either. It looks more like hmm human standing in front of Olthoi maybe? Or an empyrean in funky "cobra" head gear that Asheron likes to wear.

[Cerulia]

Hm you're right about the sentient species...Definitely right about tumeroks, they've always been a problem, although at the start I'm not sure how intelligent Lugians were considered? It was about when Linvak Tukal appeared and we started actually talking to them that we found out how deep they are I think... But I could well be wrong, I only joined the game about a year after retail so I'm vague on the early days ^_~

The virindi are the only ones that really fit with the rest in this interpretation, so maybe it's just a poor carving of one (The sculptor was in a hurry, there were olthoi knocking at the door, or maybe he was just really short so he couldn't reach the top very well).

The only thing is, the virindi weren't really brought here, they came here themselves... The spell that disrupted portal space might have caught their attention, so they could still fit, but they're not the same as the rest really... As for when they came, I think they first appeared in the time between Asheron sending away the Empyreans and our own arrival, so it's definitely possible they only noticed us because of the spell...



Ooh ooh, just thought of another problem with that theory... If those are the 5 dominant species that were brought here through portalspace... Who carved it? It'd have to be after the Empyreans went away, and in fact after we'd arrived (If we're one of the five). Has anyone checked for 'Another fine Ketnan product' on the bottom? ^_~

[Xen]

Actually some Isparians passed through Virindi's world on their way to Dereth.

[Uzi-El]

Not necessarily (http://ac.warcry.com/lore/texts/index.php?action=display&id=116)

[Cerulia]

That wasn't the Virindi's world, that was a world with Virindi ^_~

I think the most likely explanation, from all that we know about them, is that the Virindi live in portalspace itself...

[LugianWarlord]

Number 6 - turn it 90 degrees counterclockwise - looks like the letters A and C

[tailoo the grea]

As for what it stands for I have know clue, But it clearly the mainc creatures of derath with A C put in he middle

[Ashbringer]

Perhaps figure one is supposed to be a rep of Asheron. The stone kind of makes sense then. The four races pictured were all brought here by Asheron's magic. Perhaps the 6 is supposed to rep Asheron's rip in portal space. (The top, a closed area, portal space, seeminly ripped on the side with two "entities" drawn in to it and then a clear opening on the other side. This sounds like the stories of people being ripped into portal space from homelands and dropped on Dereth.

The only thing that I dont understand is that weren't the Tumeroks an indiginous species of Marae Lassel? so they may have been here long before any of the other races (perhaps even Emperyons(sic?)). I dunno. Im not a scholar nor an interpretur.

Just guesing. Made sense when I started writting this:) hehehe.

Let me know what you all think.

[Uzi-El]

The only thing that I dont understand is that weren't the Tumeroks an indiginous species of Marae Lassel?

For some reason, all Tumeroks arrive on Auberean on ML, just like all Isparians arrive on Dereth (and whatever the ToD landmass will be called). They're originally from Ezheret, the same world as Banderlings, Mosswarts, and Drudges.

[Ashbringer]

Ok, thanks for clearing that up :) But no response to weather Im a blabbering idiot or not? :) hehehe

[tailoo the grea]

We dont even know whic way is up I think we should turn the picture to where 6 looks like AC because thats what I think it is

[tailoo the grea]

We dont even know whic way is up I think we should turn the picture to where 6 looks like AC because thats what I think it is

[An Adventurer]

There's a lot of sentient species on Dereth. There's humans, tumeroks, and lugians of course, but also, mosswarts and banderlings are able to speak our language as well as their own, they just have a more tribal society. Drudges are sentient beings, but they are very primitive scavengers, and they probably only have the ability to speak because the tumeroks taught them how to back on their home world.

With this last patch, there is a monouga that speaks Roulean, but they have always been at least somewhat intelligent. Think about their society, and how they outcast the weak, old ones. And they do wear some clothing, so they at least have some basic skill in crafting and using tools.

Zefirs could be sentient, but we really know nothing about them.

Mites have somewhat recently become a sentient race, but I believe at the beginning of the game, they were more like wild fox/rodent things that dig tunnels to live in with their claws.

Tuskers are like mites. At the beginning of the game, they were wild beasts, but later they were given intelligence.

Everything else is a wild creature, or some creation of empyreans, virindi, or shadow.

[Helmar]

It makes a bit of sense if you think of it as the order in which the races arrived. Empyrians first, who then brought the Olthoi, then the Tonk then Lugians then Isparians.

Adja's tale in Prophecies implies the Empyrian weren't native to Auberean. #1 being Virindi is somewhat unlikely if we set the order as 1-6 as that would mean they predated the Olthoi, while the earliest known sighting is at least 400 years after the Olthoi first arrived.

[Boddhisatva]

Is there some dance (other than mage casting Shock Wave/Arc VII heh) that's when performed will scare away Olthoi?

I went to the Olthoi Arcade and tried the *dance* emote on them. I wasn't able to scare them away but I did seem to piss them off. I will continue my experiments.

[Cerulia]

Wrong dance, the Olthoi love the tango! The tango!!

[Xen]

I always thought that Queen controls her hives chemically like ants/termites. Dance is something that being used extensively by the bees to give direction to flower fields to the rest of the hive, but bee queen also use chemical controls to manage the hive.

Olthoi also seem to have some sort direct psy connection with their queen and possibly with each other. Makes me kinda curious what is being used for what.

It is also interesting that such powerful race has such a huge weak link regarding the queen. The way it works on Earth queen while alive chemically supresses development of another queen. Once she is dead though .. those neutering chemicals go away with her and several new queens might be born to replace her. Of course on the plus side for Olthoi, the Head Queen can establish control over lesser Queens/Matrons without actually being have to destroy them.

Hmm

Scientifically inclined Isparians should try captruring one or several of those new young queens/matrons, and see if part of the brain responsible for psy-link to Head queen can be isolated and destroyed. That might transform that queens brood into a rebel hive. They will percieve other olthoi in the area as an immediate threat to their dominance and will set to war with them.

I am also keeping an eye on that larvae that Hea Tumerok adopted as a pet .. At the very least it is not trying to kill him, or us like all other olthoi larvae do. It might be possible to syntesize some sort of Olthoi pacifier based on that chemical that we had to wash our hands in before larvae will eat an apple.

As of Tango .. do you really want to be supported during hinges and laybacks only by a razor sharp pincer with acid dripping mandibles an inch away from your face? Hmmm? <g>

[Chrono]

Well, then again, if the Empyreans thought it would confuse the Olthoi they were obviously wrong...who got chased off the planet again?

[An Adventurer]

I have two ideas. but first what I think the symbols are:
1 - virindi. It is holding a sickle. It doesn't look like the virindi we see and fight, but if I remember correctly, the virindi only wear the mask and cloak to try to fool us into thinking they are humans. So this could be a virindi in a different form, perhaps to fool Olthoi. Or it could be their natural form. (About that, I have read under the cloak, virindi are a bunch of tentacles. but I've also read that they are made of energy? which is it?)
2 - olthoi. Obvious.
3 - tumerok. Not so obvious, as its just a humanoid form holding a spear, but it works with my idea.
4 - lugian. Well it’s a big something or other. I would guess it’s a lugian or a golem. But lugain works with my idea.
5 - human. Looks like a humanoid sitting holding his hands in his lap. Again no real reason to pick human, other than it fits my theories.
6 - ???

first thought: The stones were made by the dericost, after the olthoi invasion and the arrival of humans, lugies, and tummies. The stones show the more intelligent/dangerous creatures that appeared after Asheron cast his spell to save his people. If this is true, the 6th symbol could be a warning that the dericost understand, like a skull and cross bones for us. Basically, it reads, "Avoid these creatures."

second thought: Stones were created by Yalaini. the pictures show the dominant race on five different worlds. Humans for Ispar, Lugians for Tuu, Tonk for Ezheret-Hazahtu, and Olthoi for the bug world. The virindi could represent perhaps not the virindi home world, but a planet that they control. the stones were there to help summon to another planet quickly, as in, each image was imbued with the portal coordinates for that world.

The reason I think only 5 worlds are on the stone is because the Yalaini only discovered 5 planets with sentient beings. The rest of the planets they went to were filled with wild creatures (maybe a shreth planet) or no life at all.

[Chrono]

if I remember correctly, the virindi only wear the mask and cloak to try to fool us into thinking they are humans. So this could be a virindi in a different form, perhaps to fool Olthoi. Or it could be their natural form. (About that, I have read under the cloak, virindi are a bunch of tentacles. but I've also read that they are made of energy? which is it?)

I'm under the impression their natural form is pure energy. I believe by the times of AC2, they have managed to create more organic bodies for themselves, or they were altered in the cataclysm but I tend to go with the former.

[Silifi Of Death]

Perhaps figure one is supposed to be a rep of Asheron. The stone kind of makes sense then. The four races pictured were all brought here by Asheron's magic. Perhaps the 6 is supposed to rep Asheron's rip in portal space. (The top, a closed area, portal space, seeminly ripped on the side with two "entities" drawn in to it and then a clear opening on the other side. This sounds like the stories of people being ripped into portal space from homelands and dropped on Dereth.

The only thing that I dont understand is that weren't the Tumeroks an indiginous species of Marae Lassel? so they may have been here long before any of the other races (perhaps even Emperyons(sic?)). I dunno. Im not a scholar nor an interpretur.

Just guesing. Made sense when I started writting this:) hehehe.

Let me know what you all think.

Now THAT makes sense. Asheron at the top, the rest came through his magic, so that works. I also agree with the Dericost bit on another post, makes sense.

Number 6? Prolly just means "AC". Lore reason? An arcane symbol of somesort, or maybe it has to do with the dance system as it's been suggested before.

[Cerulia]

The virindi's true form is terribly confusing (And, in an out of game sidenote, I suspect that for a while a couple of devs had different ideas on it.). I personally think that they're probably pure energy, formed into tentacles - Maybe they use tentacles as the most efficient manipulators when they need a physical body. It's definitely not something to do with the cataclysm or AC2's time frame, the virindi are tentacle-like now..

Their native form in the singularity is definitely energy. But it could be that on dereth or in physical realms, where they become fragmented and take on 'individual' forms, the most natural form their energy takes is a tentacled being (Which dissipates to energy on death). Or, as I said, they might just form tentacles the way they form sickles - To slice, they use a sickle, to pick up notes, they use a tentacle.

Just my guess anyway ^_^


As far as the stones, I'm sorry but I just can't see number 1 as a virindi... The only real reason is to fit a theory about the stone's meaning, and while it does fit very nicely it just seems wrong to bend the interpretation to fit the theory like that...

I think you do have some very good ideas about who carved it though Adventurer - They both get around the problem of the timeframe very well ^_^

Another possibility that occured to me when I was reading yours is, maybe it was the falatacot... We know they were travelling portal space long before the Yalaini, and this does seem to fit their style somehow - The Yalaini artifacts that we see often seem to be more fancy, the colourful tapestries and furniture don't seem to mesh well with the more primitive look. Not to mention, one of these stones is in an archeologist's room in the Floating City, which suggests the Yalaini were just as curious about these things as we are...

Of course, there's their placement, I think there's one of these in the Mage Academy, which is definitely Dericost controlled... But then, falatacot artifacts aren't uncommon in dericost holdings - Frore (Breakaway dericost, but still) had the Big Heads in it for example...


Edit: Now THAT makes sense. Asheron at the top, the rest came through his magic, so that works. I also agree with the Dericost bit on another post, makes sense.

It all makes sense except for one problem - If it was after the sundering, who carved it? I suppose Asheron was pretty bored in his tower for all those years... ^_~

It could of course be the Dericost, and in that case maybe the top picture is a symbol for the Yalaini as a race rather than Asheron specifically - It would make sense that two races living side by side for so long might have specific symbols (Words?) to describe the other that doesn't look very much like the thing it's representing (If you look at Japanese for example, a lot of the kanji symbols were originally easily recognisable, but changed over the years till you could never tell what they represent)

[Damien_Sarin]

Hmmm odd that dance/petroglyphs being braught up again...

A couple years back maybe in 2000 or so... there was a report that someones found a note near a petroglyph somwhere out between zaikhal and Plateau...

The note said something about the location of the olthoi queen (this is way before she was ever found in game)... and something about a 'dance' or action you had to do to reveal the entrance...

It was a 'static' note... couldnt be picked up...

We went searching for it, but it was never found again...

We spent alot of time in BDC looking for secret tunnels trying to find the entrance, trying to dance... alot of stuff...

I completly forgot about it until I just read this thread... I wonder if that was ever real in game or someone just imagined it...

[Gustaive]

Back when you had to really run out to beach fort (usually from Zaikhal), you would find all sorts of mysterious things. That's one thing that stinks about the housing portals ... on the one had they make thinks quicker (Yay!) on the other hand all sorts of people miss out on the mystery of AC (Boo!).

[DadgaSilverhand]

hm,

look like #1 sentient race, which some said Virindi, but think of "oversized" head, horns like.

#2 Olthoi ( but how can they be "Sentient race"? how intellegince?
#3 look like Tumeroks with spears
#4 lugians, large size race.
#5 humans

90 degree turn, AC.

Oh Okay,
so the Olthoi should be #1 instead of wierd looking race as #1, it could be #5
and moving as in the order.

Olthoi, first hostile race.

Tumeroks, 2nd race, that how they knew about the bugs, fought for survival, and virindi make a visit, then it got 2 sided tribes, and then those Hea got more fractured as Banner camps, renegades, and altered tonks.

Lugians, 3rd arrival, very xenophobic, living and hiding in the mountians, they are crafters by nature, but forced to become warlike, some are scholars which later befriended other races.

Humans, 4th visitors to Derethian, took ages for Sho, Gharu, and aluvain to get along with each other for common cause. and then Vaimontians are additional humans, and Rouleans are somehow shrouded in mystery, how did the mosswarts and banderlings spoke in rough and broken roulean.

Then now, latest appearances are Buruns, the largest buruns do have the horns.

Or it hadnt arrive yet, known as Gurogs. they are very large compared to Lugians, they do have big heads and horns with slender bodies.
it hadnt fullfilled a prophecy, look like Gurogs got trapped or the portal might have been delay action or the Gurogs' world may have been extremely far away, portal doesnt appear instantly.

I think Asheron is trying to hide his secret mistake from us, or frantic searching for a way to prevent and to shut down, but he should have come forward and let us "humans" to know and prepare for 5th coming of new race that was long delayed.

i doubt it was virindi, but it could be, when they "dissipated" energy around the heads just like Diyas at Ziakhal.

[Chrono]

how did the mosswarts and banderlings spoke in rough and broken roulean.
Well the Rouleans had a vast empire that stretched across the lands surrounding the Ironsea. These lands included, but were not limited to, Gharu'n, Aluvia and the Sho lands. I assume they had a vast influence on the world as a whole (as anyone around the Ironsea knew the world that is). As a result, we use a Roulean calander and we also speak the Roulean language, etc. Basically what that meant is that the mosswart could speak, albeit barely, in the language of the humans.

[Protes]

I don't play AC2 or follow it much but from I understand from reading the lore, the Gurogs are Virindi altered Mattekars. Though I'm not sure where in the AC1/AC2 timeline the Gurogs appear on Dereth, but supposedly Aerbax has already created a Gurog. Aerbax used a Matterkar with the "energy source" on Caul to create it but had to destroy it because the Gurog became a threat and his Puppets couldn't control it.


Research Notes: Mattekar
(written by Aerbax, taken from Singularity Caul Recall quest)

After a moon cycle the beast was nothing like it had been. It had taken on a bipedal stance, grown arm structures a torso rippling with meat structure beneath a partially furred hide. Twisted and dark with physical prowess and a ferocity unmatched. I returned to find 3 enhanced Puppets destroyed and 2 fighting for continued existence. The mattekar was destroyed without further discovery.

After the failure of the puppets I brought the altered beast into the presence of the energy source. There I remained with 3 enhanced puppets and waited while the moon cycle waxed. During that time I witnessed the transformation.

The hind leg withered and crumble to dust. The front legs twisted and obtained a new joining. The torso shifted upward as the spine structure straightened upward. Fur withered and fell off in clumps and patches. The flesh of the face twisted and the horns of the beast grew longer and more twisted. It adopted a new stance and began to communicate through grunts and chortles. Arms sprung from the center of the torso and the implant allowed for the creature to harness mana.

Puppets were taken by surprise as the assault began. I, however, was prepared. The mattekar was dispatched without chance for further discovery. I have decided to hold other specimens in stasis until further thought can be allotted to alteration of this sort.

link - http://www.thejackcat.com/AC/Culture/Texts/Mattekar.htm

[Uzi-El]

Part of those texts was already thrown out when it was revealed that Burun were a pre-existing race, not altered Mosswarts, so I'd consider the Gurog = Mattekars connection suspect at best.

[DadgaSilverhand]

Thx, Uzi.
i do just thought Buruns wasnt a newcomers but long time prisoned race, few hours ago i just realized they were somehow imprisoned for hm,... 5,000 yrs? buruns may not had correct calender.

Protes, it could possible. interesting lore of Mattekars. so, they could be drawn Gurogs and a head of the beast as 1 figure, altered by virindi as you said put to stasis until the wakening. sometime in pre-Ac2 timeline, Lugians and Mattekars (Gurog transformed) had made pact until the Archons (3 Mnemosyne Undead Npcs) made them lot stronger and deadly.

i think that expansion is ready for them in future stoy lines. we do need "large size" creatures, only largest size creatures are olthoi matrons, adolescent gromnies, and tremendius monogugas, until they just add Burun Reeshuns. opps, almost forgot those few large size mattes (Cannes and Ebons), but Hoary didnt look that big. also not sure if there is few big sized Tuskers beside Bobo. Not a fequent AL visitor that i am.
so, Thanks for posting a link to lore.

so what is that one of 5th race with large head and horns?

[Cerulia]

"i do just thought Buruns wasnt a newcomers but long time prisoned race, few hours ago i just realized they were somehow imprisoned for hm,... 5,000 yrs? buruns may not had correct calender."

I'm probably just misunderstanding what you're saying, but the Burun weren't imprisoned... They come from the world Bur. They were at war there with a race called the Fiazhat, who were helped by the Falatacot, but they weren't imprisoned...

[DadgaSilverhand]

it could be misworded as imprisoned, in other words, they were driven out of dereth or locked up in part of portal space, assuming that those undeads wasnt ready for them to stay on dereth.
so they (buruns) had waited for generations.

[Cerulia]

Well now I'm just really confused, I think I must have missed a piece of lore somewhere... As far as I know, the Burun were NEVER on Auberean, they weren't driven out or locked in portal space, the only reason they even wanted to come here was for revenge on the Falatacot... Which text talks about this? I've probably just missed it or forgotten about it ^_^

[Wolfenstein]

Burun/Falatocot

http://forums.ac.turbinegames.com/showthread.php?t=12655

[Protes]

That's a great thread Wolfenstein, one of my favorites to read :)


Yeah I got to agree, the Burun have never been to Dereth prior to Across the Vast Divide event earlier this year. Bur is a world The Sleeping One had created some or all life on. I think Bur is unique though in traveling there via portalspace (sacrifices are often performed to open the portals from Bur) and for this reason I suspect it could possibly be an alternate world/universe of Auberean.
I have seen nothing in the lore to suggest the Buruns, Fiazhats, and/or Moars were ever a 'trapped" race on Bur. Please post some lore references which makes you believe otherwise because I am interested in seeing if I missed anything.