A mysterious stranger... Viamontian Knights!

[Cerulia]

http://ac.turbinegames.com/index.php?page_id=296


So, who might this mysterious stranger be? Assuming it's not someone new (And it could well be of course!), I see a few possibilities...

First, it could be Nuhmudira... Without knowing the time frames of the viamontian arrival and the visit of the stranger it's hard to know for certain, but Nummy's been out of the council for nearly a year now, and she was plotting long before that. She may have gone to the Viamontians as an alternative to the council, or as part of her plans to put Dereth in danger so she could rescue it and be hailed as a hero, or possibly as revenge...

The interest in ruins is also very Nuhmudira (Remember the library Gaerlan used to trap her in the labyrinth?)... The ruins could be falatacot, and certainly a book with unfamiliar writing seems more likely to be falatacot than anything else. While Yalaini and Dericost writing would be unfamiliar as well, the ritual transformation of a human into a more powerful servant is, as far as we know, uniquely Falatacot...

The final argument is that Nummy's WAY overdue for a run as a key villain!

Incidentally, as sort of a 'Sub-possibility', if Nummy's being manipulated by some other force or person then it's possible the stranger was that person/thing as well, rather than Nummy herself...

The second possibility I see would be Aerbax or Ler Rhan. It wouldn't be the first time a virindi's manipulated humans for his own gain, and transformation is Aerbax's specialty after all. Which is actually a big flaw with this theory - If it were Aerbax, he'd use the energy source to transform the knights, not send the king out to look for some mysterious book! In fact, that's another thing... I can't think of any occasion where the virindi have shown any interest in books or ruins. They're far more hands on in their research, they either find things out themselves by experimentation or learn things directly from other creatures. Sending the king out to find a book just seems distinctly un-virindi. Of course, what with Aerbax's own transformation, we have no idea what his thought processes are like now, so it's still possible (Although it doesn't seem very shadow-like either)...

And of course, Aerbax and Ler Rhan also have the argument going for them that they are long overdue for a starring role in a storyarc too!



So, what do you think?

[pokute]

it's... Austin Powers!!

yeah~ baby~
*toothy grin*

oops, that's a beautiful stranger
nm :p

[Cerulia]

lol, the funny thing is that's exactly what I thought of when I was naming this...

[Yung Kin]

Personally, I think it's Nuhmudira.

The fact that some long lost book opens up the doorway to a new (albeit known and written down at one point) magic suggests that it's someone involved in the occult and strange magic.

Nummie imo is the quintessential realist. If there was something that a player could do to make themselves stronger, Nummie is the perfect example. If Turbine said, hey you can change yourself and make yourself into something stronger, but you have to make these choices and kill these things and collect this and that, TONS of players would do just that.

So, in reality, Nuhmudira is just a player with no restraining belts (aka Turbine). As we all know, we as players will attempt to maximize our efficiency. So does Nuhmudira. If we can exploit the fact that if you use portal recall without ever tieing to a portal and it sends you back to the last used portal, then hey, that maximizes our return on getting back to our dead bodies, allowing us to regain costly items. Nuhmudira used "something" where she just vanished from her last Council meeting, an example of her maximizing her efficiency. Whether she has a mansion recall gem, or some other gem...

Still considering the fact that the King is most definitely an expansionist sort, and knowing that Nummie doesn't get along with Queen Elysa, it would make sense for her to ally herself with such a character.

The possibilities are endless, and I hope that she does indeed prove to be the mysterious stranger.

[Xen]

Hmm, considering there is no love lost between Gharu and Viamotians, would Nuhmie really go out of her way to "help" them in such a way?

To what end in any case? To unsettle Elysa? But than she would be replaced by Viamont King, and what will Nuhmie gain from that? Hmm I suppose it will be easier for her to raise as a popular rebellion leader after Viamont King is on the throne ... Still seems too contrived.

In any case, I, personally, do not see Nuhmie as "key villain" .. Well I do not see her as villain at all. "Quintessential realist" as Yung put it. But she and Arcanium are the only ones who truly cared about "the people"

It would be a great pity if Turbine were to just turn her into "villain" another Gaerlan as it were. The way it stands now though if my character had a true choice between Elysa/Asheron, Aerbax, BZ/Ler Rhan, or Nuhmie/Oswald, he would go with Nuhmie/Oswald ticket.

[Protes]

I think the mysterious visitor is someone from Dericost, maybe someone like Geraine.

The ruins & translation of the book the Viamontians found makes me suspect the origins are Empryean/Falatacot. I don't believe someone like Aerbax would have assisted the Viamontians in altering themselves by means of magic rituals from a book. The same thing goes for Ler Rhan, I don't think he would have used this method to aid them. These two generally have other methods for twisting life. They are also not known to have assisted Isparians in this manner.

The Dericost do research and practices Falatacot magic’s and have helped us in the past; examples are Bael'zharon & Olthoi Insugerence.

The Dericost are most likely aware of all the islands surrounding Dereth and have the means to travel to them. I could see the Viamontians being something like test subjects of the Dericost to a lost ritual of Falatacot magics. Also, Geraine has 2 Citadels remaining in unknown locations.
Maybe the ruins are one of his citadels. I do think the ruins are most likely Falatacot, but this still could be a possibility.

Also I believe the magic rituals are Falatacot magics -
In the process of the change, most soldiers lost their minds and their higher mental functions. Certainly none of them were capable of the kind of focus and concentration that was required to work magic. Fortunately for the King, they retained the ability to accept and follow commands.

Sounds similar to the process of consumption the Undead experience, which only the highly skilled mages were able to retain their minds.
Perhaps the magic ritual used is something like the ritual that was used to change the Moars. I wouldn't be surprised if King Varicci II has undergone some type of transformation himself by the mysterious stranger.


Although both Nuhmudira and Oswald also know Falatacot magics, I don't see how they could manage to get to Halaetan Islands or even know about the Viamontians being there. I do agree with Cerulia, Nuhmudira is long overdue to be a villain, and I suppose this could be her "making an army" for a future war with Elysa. I just have always pictured Nuhmudira to be a sort of person to seek division from within Derethian society and not use an outside source (like in this case Viamontians) to gain control. She seems to be more conniving; I don't think Nuhmudira would use brute force for power.


Lastly I guess there is a possibility the mysterious person could be a Shadow, but I believe it would be someone other then Ler Rhan. I suspect if Ler Rhan was involved he would of changed the Viamontians into Shadows and absorb them into his army, much like Tenebrous Edge and Order of Raven Hand does. We don't have a timeline as to when these events took place, but I assume Ler Rhan retreated to Singularity Caul and has remained there since the defeat of Bael'zharon.

But I could see another Shadow faction getting involved with the Viamontians and assisting them. Someone like Isin Dule or a new Shadow faction leader could be the mysterious person.

The description of the Dark Towers portal gem -
Take heed! With the loss of our Lord, many shadows seek leadership other than the old generals. A new dark power is rising near the crater where our Lord was first imprisoned. Come and bask in the dark glory! We shall rise anew and consume this land with darkness!

I often felt that the sets of "portal gems" discovered over this past year have been related to Aerbax/Ler Rhan; luring Isparians and remnants of certain races to them for alterations. But perhaps there are indeed new Shadow leaders/factions; Order of Raven Hand could be one. I believe if it were a new Shadow faction leader, this person would follow the same practices of Shadows in transforming people if he/she were to assist the Viamontians. Shadows do twist life, but I don't believe they would do it by means of magic rituals like the Falatacots.

Now Isin Dule could of felt the need to assist the Viamontians, but I think he would of not transformed them because I believe this would cause conflict between him and us later on. I think Isin Dule would fought the Olthoi alongside with the Viamontians if he came into contact with them.


Although I'm still uncertain as to who the mysterious visitor is, until there is more information on the background lore I'm betting it's someone from the Dericost.

[Silifi Of Death]

Hmm, considering there is no love lost between Gharu and Viamotians, would Nuhmie really go out of her way to "help" them in such a way?

To what end in any case? To unsettle Elysa? But than she would be replaced by Viamont King, and what will Nuhmie gain from that? Hmm I suppose it will be easier for her to raise as a popular rebellion leader after Viamont King is on the throne ... Still seems too contrived.

In any case, I, personally, do not see Nuhmie as "key villain" .. Well I do not see her as villain at all. "Quintessential realist" as Yung put it. But she and Arcanium are the only ones who truly cared about "the people"

It would be a great pity if Turbine were to just turn her into "villain" another Gaerlan as it were. The way it stands now though if my character had a true choice between Elysa/Asheron, Aerbax, BZ/Ler Rhan, or Nuhmie/Oswald, he would go with Nuhmie/Oswald ticket.

Well, Nuhmudira isn't fully Gharu. I seem to recall her talking about her people being the Milanteans when she starts reading about the Falatacot rituals and comparing them to the old Milantean rituals. She may have been born Gharu, but she seems to identify herself with the Milanteans.

[Protes]

Yeah Nuhmudira is Milantos. Here's two excerpts that make reference to her being Milantos, though I'm fairly certain I've read other lore references to Nuhmudira's race but I'm unable to currently find it.

Milantos served justice swift and harsh to those who practiced their craft outside custom and law. But Nuhmudira would never see Milantean soil again.
(Flesh and Blood teaser)

A whistling noise crept under the door, startling her into dropping her quill. She cursed herself in the Milantan tongue and pushed the parchment away.
(Reawakening, Part 5)

[Silifi Of Death]

But she must be related to the Gharu'n in some way. I don't know how, maybe she was born as a Gharu but moved into the Milantean kingdom?

[Tomoe Ohara]

The Gharu were conquered by the Milantan for a while, it could be that some of the Gharu outside towns ended up in Milantos after everything was settled. Also Nuhmidira's family could have immigrated to Milantos during the Milantan occupation of Gharu lands if conditions for mages were "better" in Milantos.

I personally think it's one of the Shadow Lords, not Nuhmidira. They would have to completely cover up since they are no longer "human". That would also give them access to Dericosti magics, which have a tendency to be darker than Falacost magics. I can't see Nuhmidira giving the knowledge away if she had it, but the Shadow Lords would do it simply to cause chaos for a comeback.

[Cerulia]

In any case, I, personally, do not see Nuhmie as "key villain" .. Well I do not see her as villain at all. "Quintessential realist" as Yung put it. But she and Arcanium are the only ones who truly cared about "the people"

I do know exactly what you mean, and maybe 'villain' is a bad word to describe Nummy with... She does what she feels is needed, without any thoughts towards the moral aspect. She feels we need statues to buff us, so she'll sacrifice as many humans as needed to get them. She feels that Elysa's too weak a leader, so she'll have her assasinated. I've always felt that she does have the best interests of the Isparians in mind, but what she thinks our best interests are and what she thinks are needed to achieve them are maybe not the same as we would think.

One thing other than that though, she seems to have this great need to be seen as a hero by the Isparians. She doesn't only want to save the world, she wants the whole world to know that it was her...

So, why would she help the Viamontians? I can think of a few reasons (And a few reasons why she wouldn't!)

1) Get rid of Elysa and Asheron. She's always hated Asheron and though she doesn't exactly hate Elysa, she wants rid of her. She may plan to use the Viamontians as a tool to remove them. Of course, then we'd be stuck with someone quite likely worse, but I'll get to that in a minute ^_^

2) Set up a threat she can save us from... This one's a bit less convincing, but then remember at the end of the olthoi arc she stole and hid the whispering venom crystals from the Arcanum, and pretended she was working with Asheron on the poison when really he had no idea what was going on. This would go back to her hero complex... It's mainly her actions towards the end of the olthoi arc that make me think of this a possibility, but even then she didn't exactly put us under a threat, just took advantage of one.

3) We really don't know what Nuhmudira's mental state is at the moment... It's quite possible she's completely insane. Asheron said that even powerful Empyrean mages, trying what she did, had lost their minds, and last we heard of her she certainly sounded pretty unhinged. It could be that she's turned against us, or under the olthoi's influence (A bit like Martine did under Gaerlan's influence actually)

Now, the reasons against:

1) If the Viamontians did conquer us and get rid of Elysa and Asheron, we'd be stuck being ruled by them! Certainly, from what we've heard of them, that wouldn't be an improvement... I suppose it's possibly Nummy would have some trick in mind, maybe she can deactivate all those knights somehow, or she's powerful enough now to get rid of them all... Still, this is a pretty big hole in the argument.

2) Would she really help the Viamontians at all? They seem to be pretty much universally hated on Ispar (I could be wrong here though)... Of course, as I mentioned earlier, morality usually doesn't play into Nuhmudira's thinking. If she felt that she could use the Viamontians to somehow help the people, she probably wouldn't be bothered by their history.

3) Helping the Viamontians would be crossing a certain line that Nummy has so far respected. She'd be directly, intentionally helping an enemy of the Isparians, and making them more powerful for an attack against us. There are possible explanations; insanity, some secret trick she has planned against them, but it still seems a bit out of character for her.


Protes makes some good points about the Dericost... I especially like the idea that maybe one of the Citadels is under the Viamontians! (Wouldn't that be cool!). If it's not Nummy, a Dericost certainly seems like the most likely explanation. There are some flaws with that too, mainly being why would the undead help the Viamontians?

I know they've helped us in the past, but only when there was a very real immediate threat against themselves... Unless they consider US the threat! Certainly, turning the Viamontians against the Isparians then swooping in and defeating the weakened victor seems like their style...



Incidentally, is there a collective name for our three race (Sho, Gharu and Aluvian) alliance? I seem to remember one, but can't quite think of it... It just seems odd to refer to 'Viamontians' and 'Isparians', since the Viamontians ARE Isparians ^_^

[An Adventurer]

Incidentally, is there a collective name for our three race (Sho, Gharu and Aluvian) alliance? I seem to remember one, but can't quite think of it... It just seems odd to refer to 'Viamontians' and 'Isparians', since the Viamontians ARE Isparians ^_^

Derethians. Elysa declared that as our name sometime back in the martine/gaerlan story

[Phoenix Warrior]

3rd EDIT: I just looked at the post and thought, "This might be obvious though..." Well if it is sorry, I just noticed it. :)

Is it just me or does the picture in the teaser shots for this patch (On Bended Knee) look like it's a picture of Nuhmudira? And the new temple that looks like Ithenac has a Sclavus in a doorway, and Nuhmudira uses Sclavus as guards n' stuff doesn't she? Also, in the picture with the three statues, the wall and floor texture match the Ithenac look so...maybe it's Nuhmudiras temple/citadel, that has a picture of her in it for some reason, that is being guarded by Sclavus.

EDIT:Also, in the picture (of Nuhmudira I think), in the right top corner there is part of the Ithenac architecture drawn in. So...strengthens my point on the Sclavus, Nuhmudira, and the new Ithenac looking thing connection.

EDIT (again ;) ) There is Sclavus standing in the right bottom corner near the main entrance, and one at the left entrance in the doorway at the new Ithenac-looking place.)

(Is it Scalvus or Sclavus? I have always used Scalvus... :rolleyes: )

[Protes]

It's Sclavus.

Yes the picture does look kind of like Nuhmudira and it wouldn't be surprising to see her tied into all of this somehow.
The Falatacot book she has, The Book of Blood, Nuhmudira learned how to use some of the lost Falatacot Blood magics.

Nuhmudira does indeed have Sclavus as servants, they call her High Priestess. This came about back when she was imprisioned by Gaerlan in Gelidite Library. The Scalvus were responsible for her escape. Regardless of the outcome of our votes, Gaerlan was going use her as vessel for the Harbinger. The Sclavus freed Nuhmudira and later on recovered The Book of Blood for her. Ever since she's had some Sclavus as servants.

[Cerulia]

While it's possible it's Nuhmudira, I kind of suspect it might not be... The ears don't look human and the neck is longer as well, and her skin looks a bit light for nummy... It's hard to say since it's a monochrome picture, but if you compare the pictures:

Teaser:
http://ac.turbinegames.com/files/17/86/31/35/180.jpg

Nuhmudira concept art (Picture's from an ACVault contest):
http://vnscripts.ign.com/screenshots/images/ac/78342783.jpg

It could well be the same woman, but those ears more than anything else are making me suspect it's not...

The Sclavus don't really mean anything; It's true that some serve Nuhmudira, but only because of her Falatacot magic. The Sclavus were created by the Falatacot as servants, so seeing Sclavus just shows that it's related to the Falatacot...

My guess is that this is either an Adjanite priestess (Somewhat unlikely), or one of the 'Good' falatacot faction, the creators of the Moars... I probably wouldn't have even thought of the Adjanites, except I'm not sure if they built Ithaenc or just inhabited it...