Drop Camping

[CMS123]

We all know it, the ones that do it, love it, the ones that get it done to, hate it. Well, I want some thoughs on this idea. What if they made a roof over ever drop that had a slant sort of like this: / That way when you jump straight up you will slide forward and be taken out of the circle of death. It might just save a life or two. What do you all think of this and I want reasons why you don't like it if you don't. None of those, your a noob I hate you blah blah blah things. :)

[Virindi Clown]

I don't see how that would really change anything.

I think hot spot drops just need to have MUCH bigger drop zones so that you aren't so likely to get nuked by mages the second you come in. People still wouldn't necessarily be able to escape, but you wouldn't die the second you become visible.

[Ftuoil_Xelrash]

Here is a tissue...

[Aerichk]

Wouldn't they just camp it still? Just under the \ drop?

[Happyb1]

Yeah whats the deal with recall timers? People weren't getting killed enough?

[Al Shades]

Everything put into this game over the past few years has encouraged gangs, drop camping, and skilless pvp in general. It started with recall and log-off timers. Yes, drop camping is a problem. It can be fixed either by creating random drop locations within a certain zone, or by simply putting pvp restrictions on gangs, thus eliminating 2 birds with 1 stone. Are they going to do either? Not a chance.

[Pepin]

al, you're oldschool and you don't even sound like you know what you're talking about.


you guys are retarded if you think logoff/recall timers were a bad thing. don't you remember people portal hopping in and out of a dungeon, and how it was IMPOSSIBLE to kill anyone b/c of it. or what about jump/open air or portal logging?

plus i'm pretty sure if you jump into a slanted roof you would just fall straight down instead of being knocked backward. someone here can test it, my accts are deactivated =)


find a new game...

[ChildoftheKoRn]

al, you're oldschool and you don't even sound like you know what you're talking about.


you guys are retarded if you think logoff/recall timers were a bad thing. don't you remember people portal hopping in and out of a dungeon, and how it was IMPOSSIBLE to kill anyone b/c of it. or what about jump/open air or portal logging?

plus i'm pretty sure if you jump into a slanted roof you would just fall straight down instead of being knocked backward. someone here can test it, my accts are deactivated =)


find a new game...

Of course thats when it shown you had more skill when you killed people. remember the tactics that could be used. ALOT better back then

[Virindi Clown]

Yeah whats the deal with recall timers? People weren't getting killed enough?

Well, at one point, almost no one was being killed. AE and Sith recall allowed you to escape from a fight almost instantly, so you couldn't even kill someone that was really hurt while they were trying to recall.


you guys are retarded if you think logoff/recall timers were a bad thing. don't you remember people portal hopping in and out of a dungeon, and how it was IMPOSSIBLE to kill anyone b/c of it. or what about jump/open air or portal logging?

Yeah, it is a really good thing that PK timers fixed portal logging and hopping. That was completely ridiculous.

Unfortunately, it didn't really stop people who repeatedly log on and off to try and escape because PK timers disappear for some weird reason when you log off.

[Al Shades]

al, you're oldschool and you don't even sound like you know what you're talking about.

you guys are retarded if you think logoff/recall timers were a bad thing. don't you remember people portal hopping in and out of a dungeon, and how it was IMPOSSIBLE to kill anyone b/c of it. or what about jump/open air or portal logging?

I remember it well, and I hated it as much as anybody else, playing on a low level melee and having to fight very hard to attain my kills. But you can't force people to fight. In fact, you can't force people to play the way you want, period. That's simply a fact of life. There will always be people out there unwilling to take a fair death, and they will always find a way of circumventing any restrictions imposed on them. Take a look at the log-off and recall timers. Did they prevent people from running in pvp to avoid death? Hell no. It's still a daily occurence on the server, and has been for years. Perhaps they made it slightly harder to run from fights, and if that's the only thing you look at, it seems as though they had a good impact. But there was an additional impact made by "fleeing restrictions" - and it was anything but good. They encouraged gangs and unfair pvping - in so doing, often rewarding the very same skilless people they were intended to target!

Running in fights hasn't decreased by any large margin over the years, no matter what Turbine implemented. In fact, it's increased. And for that matter, so have server-wide gangs, by a huge margin. There was a time when HoS/Og style tactics were a novelty, as not every single guild on the server ran around in groups and had pathetic members who refused to fight by themselves. This earned HoS the original title of the "server's worst guild." As time went by, every guild became a clone of HoS, using the exact same skilless tactics. And it happened because Turbine green-lighted it by introducing recall/log timers, among many other skilless crutches.

In a system without restrictions on running, there will always be people who take advantage of this by fleeing fights, and, as well, there will always be those who brave it out to the end. This is the way it was before, and this is the way it will always be. In a system with restrictions, skilled and unskilled player alike are punished by being caught in gangs. Unfortunately, the odds are that the unskilled players will be the ones doing the ganking, forcing the skilled players to do the same in order to level the playing field. Thus, pvp restrictions on recalling and logging off had a detrimental impact on the overall quality of pvp on Darktide.

It's not housing that destroyed pvp, you fools. It's the crutches, exploits and restrictions which reward the skilless.

[DracheDesAngst]

The whole idea of drop camping has been rather ill-advised from a design standpoint from the beginning, but design isn't something the management has understood so the point is mute. I would like to see spells that allow spying, attack or limited transport.

For example:

1. A spell that tells you whether a portal has people near it.

2. A limited invisibility spell.

3. A way to cast spells through a portal to make people back off, prolly too hard to implement.

4. Suicide spells.. aka someone jumps thru breaks his staff and wipes out those guys crowding the portal. Balance? Well, subtract XP and give the suicider 30% Vitae or worse. Additionally, allow the crowd a chance to kill the guy before firing off.

Frankly, I just don't find the folks at turbine imaginative, that or they have management like everyone else.

Drache

[Chon of WE]

A little tip, as you are recalling in make sure you have sanc or bobo recall on ready yo cast and the instant you see a gank squad start pounding on the End key.

[Al Shades]

A little tip, as you are recalling in make sure you have sanc or bobo recall on ready yo cast and the instant you see a gank squad start pounding on the End key.

A much more reliable method is to hold "SHIFT-ESCAPE" if you think there is a gangsquad at the other end.

[Virindi Clown]

Maybe the recall timer just shouldn't take effect RIGHT when you are hit?

For example, if someone hits you, you could still recall (but not log quickly ;) ) for 3 seconds before the timer takes effect. That would prevent melee drop camps from killing people that weren't lucky enough to cast a recall fast enough.

That wouldn't effect 1 on 1, where the original problem recall timers were implemented to stop was people already engaged in a fight deciding that they wanted to escape in the middle of it.

[Virindi Clown]

I really dunno what a good fix is however I think the timer was a bad one and there must be better idea's somwhere.

Aye, it's a band-aid. :(

I hate how there are so many of them in the game that are slapped on as quick fixes, but they are never even tweaked a little after years. :(

Why doesn't the timer stick with you if you manage to log off with one? Why does the log off delay timer last several minutes, instead of 20 seconds or whatever the other timers are? Why isn't there a long recall that ignores the timer so that you can escape from dungeons/buildings when people can't get to you quickly, but keep debuffing you?

Here's a possible solution, though:

There is a slight delay to the recall timer taking effect when someone attacks you, like I mentioned before. However, when you are under a recall timer, it doesn't make you incapable of recalling, it just makes it a lot slower.

What do you guys think?

[Sopron]

The no recall on vuln is stupid. As I recall, honor guilds found that an acceptable way to decline a fight before the game made it impossible - it was the open air logging and portal logging that was frowned upon. The high level griefers camping newb hunting spots were the ones who wanted the ability to recall from fights ended. For some reason Turbine thought forcing a level 30 to get smacked down by a level 120 was enhancing game play.

[Thanatos_DT]

Shades when I read your posts it makes my head hurt. You're so insane.

You're WAY off base 90%+ of the time.

I'm just not going to read your posts anymore.

[-EtG-]

Log off timers & portal spell timers were stupid.

Shades is right, everything added since houses & mansion came out (yes including weepng, wards, majors) has been aimed primarily at gangs or people wanting to get by on template PvP - skill-less pvp - ganging PvP.

Take AC back to 02', when stam to health 1 worked, when melees were balanced for group pvp etc

[Angier]

I've never camped a drop and get smacked down often when using them. Still, I feel any dynamics to prevent drop camping would be bad for Darktide. We all claim we want things to fight for and defend, but preventing drop camping would make it impossible to defend anything.

Take the new lever dungeons. They have multiple entrances and I presume multiple drops do they would be difficult to defend -- but not impossible for a large, organized group. "Organized" is the key. Organized groups should triumph, no matter how grief their goals might be.


-Elije