Give us your feedback on the Higher Wield-Req weapons! [Archive]

Alok

01-05-2005, 03:32 PM

Wait, so in four years, you guys couldn't make an attack modifier stick to an arrow fired from a bow, but damage can still be added?

Oh, and by the way, by saying that you're adding even higher level stuff, you just killed any motivation that maxed out players had to hunt for this crap. (And make no mistake, it *is* crap. Odds of finding a bow with high damage bonus plus an elemental you actually want + odds of finding a W3/W4 = Even dumber than before.)

Speaking of dumb....when the *hell* is Fletching going to be a skill that's worth the absolutely ridiculous credit cost it currently has, seeing as how it's a requirement for tank archers in the era of 5k+ hp monsters. Arrows with a wield req? Duh? Like anyone raises fletching past level 70 through anything other than the percentage rewards....

baybear57

01-05-2005, 03:33 PM

Harzah

01-05-2005, 03:34 PM

Very nice! I think it's awesome.

Unlike some people who may be grousing because they have to start the search over again for weapons to rend, I think it's great to have new things to strive for. New reasons to really pump up your weapon skills etc. And I think it's really about time casters/missle weapons got balanced for elemental damage the same way the melee weapons are, or well close anyway.

It'll be interesting to see how it works out.

One thing however I think that should be noted: You are giving powerful players, powerful tools — now what are they going to use those tools on? The same old, same old? I hope there are serious plans in the works for higher level stomping grounds aside from Caul and VoD (which are not bad by any means, I simply think there needs to be more).

Anyway, my two bits :)

Ewar

01-05-2005, 03:36 PM

Always nice to get new toys to play with.

also to have all the current uber weapons get traded for more realistic prices due to a new tier of development, and lets face it any quality weapon is always good to have, even if its not a 100% perfect weapon.

MVOFJR

01-05-2005, 03:37 PM

Killer stuff... Thanks for getting this into the game for us. Now dont get me wrong, I havent been looking forward to anything this much since imbues were first announced... but I was kinda hoping that we would see some kinda new max damage chart, ya know?

CMS123

01-05-2005, 03:40 PM

It all sounds pretty cool, but no life bolt damge mods?! Come on, they are one of the hardest types of characters you can play in the game and you still havn't added something to help them out just a little that im aware of. I like all this though, keep it up, and please make life bolt mods soon! My life bolt character is hard to level, I have leveled every type of character at least 4 times. This was my first try at a life bolt char and he is by far the slowest to kill stuff and the hardest to fight in big mobs. Please please please make them soon! I'll give your mouse a cookie! ;)

Arch Magi

01-05-2005, 03:51 PM

"Overall, these new weapons are expected to improve damage over time at high levels by around 5%."

Does that mean 5% more than a 10 tinkered bow (+166) or 5% more of a base 290 bow (+130)?

If it's 5% more than a +166%, then that makes it equal to a +174.3% which is good (equal to a +130% bow with 11 bags of Hog, not 9). If it is 5% more than the +130% base, then that is +172.%% which is "nice", but hardly worth me reworking all my bows. Maybe the Fire Rending and Acid Rending bows will get redone, but it's not high on my list.

Armor Rending: +166/+11 Minor Blood Thirst
Critical Strike: +166/+12
Crippling Blow: +166/+11
Pierce Rending: +166/+11
Slash Rending: +166/+10
Bludgeon Rending: +166/+8
Fire Rending: +166/+5
Cold Rending: +166/+10
Lightning Rending: +166/+6
Acid Rending: +166/+4

As for the casters, I could care less, aside from a Bludgeon Rending wand when I do ring spells for "Bugs", I never use them. Oh, I forgot when I use a Cold Rending for the King Quest ... which when I get 1 more part, I will be done 2 full suits and could care less if I ever do that quest again, 60 King Quests will have been enough for any person.

All in all, hardly what I would call "promising" since my level 129 Archer a full set of 10 tinkered bows, and when the Expansion Pack comes out, I doubt that the Damage Over Time will matter much when I get hundreds of billions of XPs and become level 276 or whatever.

Ibn

01-05-2005, 03:57 PM

Will these be found in sing troves and VoD chests?

They can be found in Sing Troves and VoD chests, yes.

Ibn

01-05-2005, 04:03 PM

Does that mean 5% more than a 10 tinkered bow (+166) or 5% more of a base 290 bow (+130)?

A max damage 315 wield req bow, untinkered, will have an average DoT about 5% higher than an untinkered max damage 290 wield req bow, assuming you're using the right element for the elemental bonus.

Keep this in mind: you could possibly find a 315 wield req bow with a 130 damage mod AND the best elemental damage bonus and THEN tink the damage mod up to 166.

Checking the specs, bows actually tend to be a little higher than the average 5% increase.

Ibn

01-05-2005, 04:05 PM

Typical inflation of the game, begins a new cycle -- but this time missile and casters need to carry a lot more weapons to compete.

I'm not sure I see how different this is than when we introduced resistance rending imbues. If you wanted a full set of resistance rends, you needed a full set of missile weapons or casters.

Ibn

01-05-2005, 04:06 PM

Sounds great -- my only concern is that the higher-wield weapons I can use (with a base weapon skill of 377) will drop in areas that I can't easily hunt (since my weapon of choice is staff, and I don't have life magic spec'd). As long as the "top-tier" of loot includes upper-level Dires critters and those found in Ishaq's Cellar and/or the Western Power Forge, I'm in good shape. But if they drop only in VoD or Caul ... I'm SOL.

Like I said, they can drop on creatures that are intended for 80+, which includes the West Dires coast and the Obsidian Plains. They'll be found more frequently in the Caul and VoD but those aren't the only places you can find them.

Ibn

01-05-2005, 04:09 PM

Why did you not consider deviating to a possible dual type imbue when you acknowledged the "speced life magic issue?" Unbelievable! I cannot fathom the total disregard for an entire playing class, it's beyond sad IBN and totally disrespectful....I am gonna step away before i say anything else and get myself banned again. :mad:

For one reason, creating a new system like that would require resources that we won't have until after the expansion pack ships, at the earliest.

Other solutions aren't off the table, we just wanted to get something in-game sooner than that, which is why we went with the no-life-magic creatures idea, which you'll be seeing in the January event.

At any rate this is somewhat off-topic... the higher wield-req weapons were never intended to address the life magic issue.

-Xod-

01-05-2005, 04:14 PM

Hmm..more stuff that benefits the high levels char best...Working on 4 year of casual hunting (granted very casual but still..) and I have only 2 chars that could even attempt to start making use of those (if I could manage to ever find and successfully imbue any of it)
/e ponders that unsub link for his accounts

Vlad Morbius

01-05-2005, 04:15 PM

[QUOTE=Ibn]For one reason, creating a new system like that would require resources that we won't have until after the expansion pack ships, at the earliest.

Other solutions aren't off the table, we just wanted to get something in-game sooner than that, which is why we went with the no-life-magic creatures idea, which you'll be seeing in the January event.

Is it January indeed or February as was said in earlier posts....plz say January so i can start my drooling :D

Neue Regel

01-05-2005, 04:23 PM

Ibn

01-05-2005, 04:26 PM

Is it January indeed or February as was said in earlier post....plz say January so i can start my drooling :D

We decided that this was important enough to move it straight from concept to coming next month, so the "no Life Magic needed" hunting ground will be coming in the January event.

I do want to urge caution -- since this is our first crack at this, there is always a chance that it is not going to be the ultimate fix that you clearly want. But if nothing else I hope that it shows that we DO understand that it is an issue and we ARE committed to resolving it.

Vlad Morbius

01-05-2005, 04:28 PM

Vlad feels a tear welling in his eye :o

Ibn

01-05-2005, 04:29 PM

Will the bonuses only be elimental, or will we see an advanced AR type of bonus for making a stronger AR missle weapon? This is mainly what I use and CS and Sing bow hunting in VoD. the elemental bonuses wont mean much to me since the the bows I already use do the most damage in VoD.

Only elemental bonuses will be on the bows. But this is still a potential improvement... for example if you regularly use cold arrows in the VoD, you could try to acquire a higher wield-req bow with a bonus to cold damage, and then land an AR or CS imbue on it.

This does potentially increase the number of bows you might be carrying at any given time. Alternately if you find a bow that has an elemental bonus and is otherwise equal to your current primary, you can start using it as your primary. You wouldn't lose any damage bonuses (again, if they're otherwise equal) and you'd gain a bonus for one elemental type.

Arch Magi

01-05-2005, 04:31 PM

I do want to urge caution -- since this is our first crack at this, there is always a chance that it is not going to be the ultimate fix that you clearly want. But if nothing else I hope that it shows that we DO understand that it is an issue and we ARE committed to resolving it.

Translation ... Beware of a possible Nerf because it isn't tested. Like "The Pit", Singularity Wand, etc.

Lag Beast

01-05-2005, 04:34 PM

"Even higher wield-req weapons? Coming in the future!"

Yay! How about some 425 wield melee weapons?

Neue Regel

01-05-2005, 04:39 PM

Only elemental bonuses will be on the bows. But this is still a potential improvement... for example if you regularly use cold arrows in the VoD, you could try to acquire a higher wield-req bow with a bonus to cold damage, and then land an AR or CS imbue on it.

This does potentially increase the number of bows you might be carrying at any given time. Alternately if you find a bow that has an elemental bonus and is otherwise equal to your current primary, you can start using it as your primary. You wouldn't lose any damage bonuses (again, if they're otherwise equal) and you'd gain a bonus for one elemental type.

Well I currently use three bows in VoD. If what you are saying is true, I would end up with:

Sing bow
CS Slash Bonus
CS Cold Bouns
CS Pierce Bonus
CS Acid Bonus
AR Fire Bonus
AR Slash bonus

7 bows. that is not possible given my burden

If you made bows that gave +2 bonus to AR and CS, then we would not have to have all these bows. We would just change the arrows, like we do now.

I personally think it would have been much better just to raise the mod on these bows. Like max of 140 for bows and 165 for xbows.

Lokania

01-05-2005, 04:45 PM

Gordian

01-05-2005, 04:57 PM

silvurhawke

01-05-2005, 05:34 PM

"we DO understand that it is an issue and we ARE committed to resolving it"

I have faith again! Also I'm pretty sure the weapons and new hunting grounds won't be satisfactory at first but at least it's a start.

But the fact that you guys really are listening makes me happy about the future of AC again. For once, just once, please err on the side of extremism rather than caution :)

I have hope again and it feels good!

Renswic

01-05-2005, 05:34 PM

yet again, mages get MORE love, melee get MORE love and hte missle classes get screwed. i cant wait to log on AC and laugh at all the stupid missle clanies that had foollessly hope turbine would balence out missle.....

Gordian

01-05-2005, 05:48 PM

Renswic, I have no idea how you arrive at that conclusion. My axer carries around 12 axes and my macer carries around 10 plus some are muled. These are mostly 800 BU items. 250 BU yags, shouyumis aren't a real issue plus you can mule some and get them when needed. Xbow have an issue and TW is like bow.

It sounds like bow gets both a slight damage increase plus a element bonus. How is that getting screwed?

Hungwell

01-05-2005, 06:06 PM

When I was a young man, I was an archer. It was a tough life. All we had were plain arrows and you had to run from town to town to find the different arrow head types. You never knew how good the bow you had was because damage mods didnt appear on them anywhere. Even after that was fixed it was a year or more before we were told that the attack % on our precious bows did nothing at all. That was ok really because the composite bow came out and it was the be all and end all of bows prior to ACDM. Up until the introduction of tinkering we all carried one bow. First it was the composite then the elari. After tinkering we all carried no more than 4 bows. An AR, a CS, a CB, and possibly an AR tinked for defense. I personally only carried one bow, my trusty 166 AR. Life was simple and good. Then along came resistance rending and at the same time low craft 130 bows became scarcer than siraluun teeth. In order to keep up with the jones' I now carry a golf bag full of bows (just like my melee toons carry their weapons). I am a very odd template archer. I have very high base str because I use my UA to bop crystal lords. I am always close to encumbered though. I carry an AR defense bow, a BldgR, BldeR, FrostR, CS, and weeping bow. I have a fireR, PierceR, and AcidR but rarely carry them. In addition to all these bows, which are extreemly heavy, I also get to carry all my fletching supplies and crafted arrows. My ammunition alone takes up one full backpack. I also carry a bludgeon rending UA and a weeping claw.

Now with this change to missile weapons we are back to the rat race. In recent times I have found 1 craft 5 130 and 4 or 5 craft 6's. A craft 5 tops out at 9 tinks and a craft 6 tops out at 8 and both of those are not trivial tinkers. So, neither of these bows, which I considered pretty good finds at the time, will ever be uber. Now I get to hunt for bows with extra + on them for damage. It is unlikely that any of these bows will be craft 4 or less and still be 130's. The rarity of the craft 4 130 is nearly intolerable as it stands. If I understand how things work, a +4% damage modifier is roughly equivalent to +1 base damage. So a +2 craft 6 bow would be the equivalent of a +0 craft 4 bow.

I guess I am not really griping so much about the new system as I am griping about the rarity of max damage bows. To even bother with a new bow it will have to have a better + damage potential than the bows I currently use and with the current bow drop statistics that is unlikely at best.

I am not asking to be given a +10 craft 3 bow (if you want to give me one I wont turn it down) but I am asking to have an even shot at getting a weapon that could be tinked 10 times. As the system currently sits archers in particular have 0 chance of ever putting together a set of 166 mod bows. I know it is not much better for melees but I still feel that the lack of good loot bows makes the higher weild scheme presented here fairly useless to most people.

Vlad Morbius

01-05-2005, 06:16 PM

Thats a valid point. My son has had a devil of a time finding a full composite of bows. Perhaps this patch will not only add the new bows but a greater number of premium ones. Of course this is pure speculation, but it would stand to reason since they will now be part of the sing and VoD chests, another positive step taken :)

AnotherDude

01-05-2005, 06:32 PM

As a long time bow player, I have reservations about the deviation for missile weapons. Particularly about it only being for elemental damage. However, until I have one in my hot little (chubby) hands, I'll reserve further comment. I may be wrong and it may be good? Time and experience will tell.

Cheers.

Jet-eye-nite

01-05-2005, 07:17 PM

This took you several months ?
And you still drop the melee/missile stuff in a mage only area ,thats great stuff .
O but you let us get the junk ones in wd ,thanks .
Too bad you didn't drop the mage stuff in a melee only place , O thats right there is no such place.
pfft ,lol
What would of really been great is if you would of allowed tinkers new salvage types where they could of made these bows,axes,swords,wands,staffs,maces,spears.
but it seems to fall under smhst :rolleyes:

AlphaSwift

01-05-2005, 07:17 PM

ibn said........"Even higher wield-req weapons? Coming in the future!"

So, we're selling off our 325 (i.e. melee) weapons and starting to collect another set of 350's....and within a few months we'll have to dump those for 400 wields ( or something like that?)

PLEASE.......

Instead of forcing us to toss the new 350's, can you invent/create/develop a mechanism to improve our existing weapons? The cost of the improvement would be that the weapons become higher level wields.

I love finding and creating the new weapons, but not having to do it a couple times a year.

Ashikaga

01-05-2005, 07:34 PM

I have reservations about the missile weapons too.

At one time an archer only needed to have one good bow. This was offset by a number of factors.

. The added skill cost of training fletching.

. Bows and xbows are heavy. A bow is typically twice as heavy as a sword and an xbow is 4 times as heavy.

. Arrows are even heavier. One 250 arrow bundle (result of fletching packed components) weighs 2500 bu. Thats as heavy as 6 or more swords.

. Missile weapons have the slowest animations to swap weapons. This is even worse if you have to swap arrows as well.

Now IBN is saying archers will be using as many weapons as melees.

The questions are...

When we will we see a large reduction in the burden of fletched arrows and bows/xbows?

When will the weapon swap animation for missile weapons be greatly improved?

Myk

01-05-2005, 08:26 PM

The missile weapons have a twist to them – 315 wield-req missile weapons will receive a bonus to a specific elemental type. For example you might find a 315 wield-req bow that has a damage modifier of 127% as well as a +2 to fire damage. Whenever fire arrows are used with this bow, it will do an additional 2 points of damage to the target. (And no, +2 is not the best that you can find!)
-----------------------

Please tell me missile weapons can get the bomus to all 7 damage types and not just fire, frost, acid and lightning.

Newbie

01-05-2005, 09:46 PM

Big deal +5% damage over time. So it takes me a couple of more swings or another arrow to kill a mob compared to someone who is using the new gear. Hardly worth the effort unless you care about bragging. I for one will not waste one minute bothering to imbue any of these new weapons.

For those of us over 400 base melee skill and 360 base bow/xbow skill, there doesn't seem to be any point at all to spend time with these until you come out with truly high wield gear which I expect will be in the xpac (and by that, I mean you MUST have 400/360 melee/bow wield, and 429/381 wield, otherwise what's the point).

Oh, and are the maximum attack and defense mods going up as well, or just damage?

Chazcon

01-05-2005, 09:48 PM

Very cool, I can't wait. I recently wiped my accounts and re-started from scratch so I don't have my full set of weapons to replace. My Og Xbow using only AP quarrels so I only need one maxed Xbow - my swordie can get a full set and imbue them - same for my mage. Woot!

kclobo2003

01-05-2005, 10:31 PM

well I was in the mind set that with these new high req weapons, that all the damages were being raised....but not so I guess......

Im TW and I dunno why I thought I was gonna get higher Dam Mods....b/c ya after reading these boards and then remembering that I guess we alrdy do enough dam why ask for more?

"shrug" I dunno if I even wanna worrry about 2 extra points or more of dam to my hits b/c I have a high tinked Bludge Atlatl that is all I use, I have all the rend Atlatl's but its to much hassle switching from one to another or making sure they are all buffed and rdy to go....so I'll just stick with my usuall Bludge Atlatl....well I do wish all of you the best of luck and fun with your new weapons and I'll just wait to see what else there is in store for me to play around with in Jan...hehe :rolleyes:

Logan Conrad

01-05-2005, 11:07 PM

Will the damage bonus be activated if you can wield the weapon? Or will it be like a built in spell, you have to be able to meet all of the activation requirements, e.g. Rank, Weapon Skill, Race, etc.?

Because if it's like a spell and you end up finding a +130%, +12%, wms 4 with a +4 to Frost, but it has a Rank req (yuck) :eek:, you'll have to waste a tink on removing the rank (if you can't meet it)!

I'd also like to know when you say all elements, do you mean all 7 damage types or just Fire, Frost, Lightning & Acid?

Any chance on telling us what the max damage bonus is going to be ahead of time? ;)

GhettoPhabulas

01-05-2005, 11:16 PM

", then we would not have to have all these bows."

Find an all purpose element and use it. Problem solved.

Ling Mei

01-06-2005, 01:00 AM

We decided that this was important enough to move it straight from concept to coming next month, so the "no Life Magic needed" hunting ground will be coming in the January event.

I do want to urge caution -- since this is our first crack at this, there is always a chance that it is not going to be the ultimate fix that you clearly want. But if nothing else I hope that it shows that we DO understand that it is an issue and we ARE committed to resolving it.

As a PURE melee character (meaning my magics allow me to buff, no more, I have 310 buffed in all, plenty for buffing, but nowhere near being able to imperil or vuln), I am looking forward to this a whole lot.

I just would urge you to PLEASE take into account that not all players enjoy dungeons, fellowships for xp, and prefer to hunt alone, outdoors.

Please do not just throw in another Matron Hive. As it is now, the Matron Hive 80+ is camped 24/7 and over-crowded most of the time. I've run around in there for 10 minutes without finding a single Olthoi to kill. If there were 3-4 of them, it would be a lot nicer, for people who didn't wish to fellow and yet still wanted to get a halfway decent chunk of xp as a pure melee. (And no, Brood Hives do not give the same xp/hour)

Give us outdoor hunting, where we can make the equivalent of those who dungeon-crawl. Matron Hive can do around 20 million an hour, or more if it is not too camped, (conservatively), and the best I can do outdoors, alone, anywhere in Dereth as a melee is 6-8 million an hour. (Depending on the Spawns)

It would not be difficult to make a large area (Look at the new Island you put in, there are barely any monsters on it, at all, and those that are there, are low level moarsman and stuff, turn that into a melee only hunting ground!) and make all monsters in that area 100% immune to ALL forms of magic, 100% drain resistant, and lower Armor Level, so we aren't whacking away for 20 minutes trying to kill something. I have capped Strength, Coord, and Sword, and I can't get a Banderling Paragon below 98%, ever, with just a Rend Sword.

Keep in mind those of us who are pure melees, likely do not have high magic Defense. If you fill up this area with spell casters, it defeats the purpose. We spend our xp into Melee Defense, and Missle Defense (in my case, and many others like me), and our weapon skill, we can't sit there and resist a bunch of spell-happy monsters, and we shouldn't have to, we're melees, we tank monsters that bash you, not those that cast spells.

I beg you, please, remember those characters who do not dungeon crawl, do not wish to fellow with strangers just to "maximize xp" and who enjoy exploring outdoors, when you make this "High Level Hunting".

Heideggar

01-06-2005, 02:56 AM

1) Ibn, mind showing us how 5% increase in damage at the high end would make it worth switching from 325 wield to 350 wield? Outside of being bored, or wanting to "be first", I'm not seeing why someone with a complete, or near complete, set of weapons would try to upgrade for this seemingly small damage increase.

You said it was 5% to DoT. See, I'm visualising me fighting in VoD and seeing a 1-2 second decrease in how long it takes me to kill something. How noticeable is 5%? Is it pretty noticeable, like shaving off 30 sec- 1 min of fighting a virindi quidox or something?

5% just seems low to me.

2) If the weight on the weapons didn't suck, and/or a side pack for tinkered items only (you can put weapons, DI's, and armor in this) was put in outside of what you normally have, and/or being able to buff multiple weapons and the shield.... that would help out this idea more.

The idea of carrying more bows, or more heavy melee weapons (axes and maces come to mind), just for 5% more DoT, just doesn't sound too apealing.

3) This is a bit off topic, and I can make a seperate thread about it, but I was curious as to how you guys were coming along with the multi-weapon buffs, as well as including the shield with armor buffs stuff. I had made a post a couple months ago asking, as well as myself and others giving several ways of solving the problem, though we didn't know which would be hardest/easiest. Orion said to check back around this time of the year I believe.

4) Will these higher wield weapons bring melee/missle people closer in line with the DoT mages can do on rending type creatures? Or is that more of an adjustment of armor classes for creatures?

5) Will you guys get around to balancing VoD, as well as increasing its size, in the next 1-2 months?

6) Is it possible for you guys to restrict certain items from a pack? Say you add in a pack slot in the current avatar screen. The only pack you can put in it is a "special loot" bag. The only things that can go inside are tinkered items (DI's, weapons, armor, jewelry, etc.). Can you "do that with the current tech" : )

7) How come you guys hate Tufa?

8) Can you guys put a portal to the Heartland's LS in Tou Tou?

9) What happened to Tufa-Hold'em? I heard some Acting-Producer talking how he'd do it himself, if he had to, because he wanted it so bad. Is he still around?

10) Get someone to acknowledge/respond to the ToD board once in a while. It's bad enough the general boards can go rather inactive for a while, but for the expansion too!? Seems odd. When someone said they had a ton of stuff they were going to post there, I thought it'd be more than 4 short articles, and not ALL lore/backstory related.

11) I know these are off topic. Thanks : )

12) On the 12th day of christmas.....

DadgaSilverhand

01-06-2005, 03:03 AM

what about those damage modifiers on melee weapon base? very rare i had seen original mods that are at least +17%, so that is still mod capped? most of the loots are averaged around 6% to 12%, so will those new high wield requirements is going to have higher mod base around +15% to +17%???

MaddyFF

01-06-2005, 04:17 AM

The idea of carrying more bows, or more heavy melee weapons (axes and maces come to mind), just for 5% more DoT, just doesn't sound too apealing.

No different then it is now. If you want a resistance rending weapon you have to carry one for each type. I currently do this with my sword fighter, an AR sword, CS, CB, phantom, and one of each resistance. I'll beupgrading them as I find new swords to imbue. Since my sword fighter is fussy is uses only tachi's, this could take a while...

Angier

01-06-2005, 04:22 AM

IBN, this is the perfect opportunity to explain why, once again, Life was singled out to not be boosted.

Please state definitively that Turbine has less than zero interest in the Martyr mage being a viable class, explain why you think it's in line with the other classes (and I'll be happy to do some testing if you need data), or explain when you're going to make Life a viable class by either rends and wield req weapons or by alternative means. A projected quarter would be nice.

I've heard before that rends for Life weren't in the tech because the rends are based on code for vulns and there's no such thing as a Life damage vuln. What I didn't read was if you intend to keep it that way or perhaps reopen investigation in the future, such as after the expansion is released and tweaked. Hint here: Slayers work fine with Martyr spells; could not a Life Rend wand actually borrow code from Slayers with hacked flags for "Life only" and "all creatures"? We hacked flags for PvP use of high-end PvM wands.

Thank you for your time. Simply getting Turbine's stance on Martyr mages would go a long way, even if actual fixes are in the distant future. Throwers held on and so can I.

-Elije

Kossuth

01-06-2005, 07:11 AM

Sounds good to my Grief BM and Tank Archer - I never understood archers with base 10 str anyway so I guess its my turn to laugh at them for mocking me and my lower magic template. Brilliant news over the no magic hunting areas - I hate have to hunt exactly the same places 24/7. As for timing ... I was picking up my unspec life gem on Friday so PERFECT!

A good incentive to hunt again for more than just majors, salvage and xp.

PS: All those throwing a hissy fit and saying there is no point in getting these as there will be higher wield ones way down the road can forward them on to me. ;)

MaddyFF

01-06-2005, 08:20 AM

If they add a rend for life bolts then they should add a protect spell for it too. As it is my only protection is by resisting the spell, my life protects do zilch for me if it lands.

Dark Essence

01-06-2005, 10:31 AM

Is it me or does it seem a bit of a low increase ?

Why only elemental bonuses for bows?
What happend to physical?
Why didn't you just increase the damage mod for bows like you have done for melee?
woulden't that of been easyer? + more desireable meaning we wont have to carry around a few extra bows.

If its just a max possible 5% increase on elemental damage for bows i wont be bothering with them.

Greycobra_03

01-06-2005, 11:02 AM

For me, I would like no BU bow ammo. more than higher dam bows... just my $.02.

stargrove

01-06-2005, 11:18 AM

i appreciate the new weapons. However unlike a majority of mages I am not a BattleMage nor a War Mage. The new mage weapon type appears to be catered specifically for them.

Do you intended for all mages to be war or bm?

otto mo beale

01-06-2005, 11:32 AM

Lets just use mace for example.

No tink no bd 5% of 34 (max possible) is 1.7. call it 2.
Tink it and bd it it ends up roughly 46.5 to 62 or so. Lets ignore cantrips for clarity. 5% of 62=3.1 call it 3.

Will mace go up by 2, 3 or some other number for a best found 350 wield?

Tell me this one I can roughly figger the rest.

/e looking forward to it. aleady hoarding imbue materials.

PS make SOMETHING drop more &^*%! red garnet!
PPS Make clubs more vialbe with more 34 (and higher wield) possible. I like looking like a caveman.

Otto. 4.5 years and counting.

Heideggar

01-06-2005, 12:34 PM

Maddy, I know what you're saying, and for the most part it won't change too much for what people will be carrying around. However, did you read about what Ibn had said reguarding making an AR + Fire Bonus bow for VoD, or a CS + Cold Bonus bow for Caul, and things like that? Ibn said there are ways of increasing the damage against creatures by doing this. If someone did that to get the full benefits of these higher wield weapons it would mean more weapons. That's what I'm referring to.

Am I reading it right? Does it say that non-elemental weapons won't be getting a bonus like the elemental weapons!?

jmontgomca

01-06-2005, 01:32 PM

Why would I want to waste salvage on the new weapons knowing than in 1-6 months higher wield weapons which I could already use are coming?

Vlad Morbius

01-06-2005, 01:43 PM

hmmmm why have chocolate ice cream today, when they are coming out with double chocolate in 6 months......well chocolate today still sounds yummy to me :cool:

MVOFJR

01-06-2005, 02:48 PM

hmmmm why have chocolate ice cream today, when they are coming out with double chocolate in 6 months......well chocolate today still sounds yummy to me :cool:

Excelent comparison. Its sad that some people complain when you try to hand them a better weapon.

jmontgomca

01-06-2005, 02:51 PM

But its not a better weapon until I spend weeks worth of salvage on it. I did not tink weapons lower than max damage before why would I want to do it intentionally now.

Kyo_AC

01-06-2005, 02:52 PM

If I do recall, they did say months ago that the highest possible wield base weapons for Melee characters would be 405; 360 for Archers/Xbowers; and I'm gonna guess about 360 for Mages as well if they were planning to release the highest tier of loot gen weapons possible in the near future.

My question is to you Ibn is, why would you guys put the elemental damage bonus on bows, xbows & casters & not include melee weapons for these bonuses? If anything, it's the Melee weapons that need these bonuses alot more than bows, xbows & casters.

turnstyles

01-06-2005, 03:08 PM

it is just silly that you would wait 5 years to make an 'element specific' damage bonus. the odds of finding one worth the imbue, let alone the %66 chance of seeing it immediately destroyed, are staggerlingly low.

i guess this is great for players that have time to hunt all day for items then sell them on their bot for 5 times their normal value...but its another nail in the casual gamer's coffin.

**these are strictly my opinions and will not change the fact that i will use my strandard, no bells and whistles, double major cs staff**

jmontgomca

01-06-2005, 03:10 PM

I can field that one. Melee weapons already were distiguished by doing different types of damage. Wands and bows did not have that distintion. Turbine's ultimate goal was not to improve any type of weapon more than any other. The new wands will do 5% more damage in a specific damage type than the old wands would have done. The same will be true for the new missle weapons, instead of improving the damage the arrows do they gave the bows a 5% increase for one damage type.

Niarbdloc

01-06-2005, 03:23 PM

I'd just like a clarification...cause I st00pid sometimes :confused: ...If I have say a new 310 wield req wand with 2% or whatever to fire damage and I land on it with red garnet (fire rend) which acts essentially like a lvl 6 vuln. Will I be landing for more damage than with just a fire rend wand without the 2% ?

.... LOL ...and am I rambling incoherently ?

TYIA
Niar.

MaddyFF

01-06-2005, 03:35 PM

I'd just like a clarification...cause I st00pid sometimes :confused: ...If I have say a new 310 wield req wand with 2% or whatever to fire damage and I land on it with red garnet (fire rend) which acts essentially like a lvl 6 vuln. Will I be landing for more damage than with just a fire rend wand without the 2% ?

That would be the intent is my guess. Be kind of silly if it didn't. :)

Angier

01-06-2005, 03:41 PM

If they add a rend for life bolts then they should add a protect spell for it too. As it is my only protection is by resisting the spell, my life protects do zilch for me if it lands.

Actually we have the opposite situation right now. Life has a protect and no vuln.

The protect is called "Drain Resistance". The majority of monsters have none, but in the upper levels it becomes more frequent and is usually quite arbitrarily applied. Bosses are quite arbitrary; Grggk (sp?) and Aerfalle cannot be harmed by Life because they have 100% DR, Olthoi Matrons on the armor and raiment quests have 50% DR, the Coral Golem Viceroy has 30% DR, Gaerlan has no DR, and so on. In creatures, acidic diamond/coral cannot be hurt with Life and have 100% DR as well as several types of tuskers (plated, armored, devs), many creatures have 25-50% DR including grievvers, some rifts, other tuskers (assailers for example).

Players have Drain Resistance based on base Strength and Endurance. This caps at 50% for 500 base Str + End. Almost every melee or mage starts with at least 110 Str + End so can attain 490 Str + End when capped. This gives 48.33% drain resistance.

Look at how much damage a maxed Martyr mage can do and compare it to 48.33% drain resistance. Imagine if War had to fight a 48.33% protect that couldn't be vulned away. The worst it faces is a major ward at 15%. Both War and Martyrs are reduced by the Aegis shield and bows by the same amount so it's not a factor in a comparison.

Let's be really, really generous and assume the Martyr can get to 420 health. (I believe the practical cap is 417.) 25% is taken from the spell for 105 damage to the caster, and a level 7 spell doubles what is taken for damage so it does 210 damage. Let's even assume a crit and we're up to 315. Let's add a few points for skill economy and call it 325. Let's add Human Slayer; I'm not sure the cap but I know it's low so let's say 20%. This brings it to a hit for 390 and sure sounds nice.

Now factor in the 48.33% built-in protect that almost every capped non-archer has. Round up and it's 202. This is the ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM the Martyr could ever do on a single shot in PvP, with both players capped. Even an archer with 10/10 strength/endurance start will have a 33.33% drain resistance when capped and this lucky shot would do 260 damage. This same shot did 105 damage to the caster. The mage could eat the rare 202 damage, the archer could easily dodge it because it only comes in bolts and he has range, and the melee could reduce it with the aegis to a little over 150 damage.

Now if the Martyr could shoot a second one for the same damage he might have a chance. As it is, the next shot would be reduced by 25% and he's already down to 315 health. If he shoots it, unless he manages to crit again he'll only do about 100 damage for a little over 300 damage total for the two shots. Meanwhile he's dealt over 180 damage *to himself*.

This is WITH human slayer. It's not impossible for him to win but nobody would call this "overpowered". A "Life Rend" would probably be overpowered with a capped 2.5 multiplier like other rends, but it needn't have its cap set as high as other classes. A 1.25 cap would be quite reasonable. A 2.5 for PvM flagged to cap at 1.25 for PvP would be something I barely hope to dream for. A high-wield wand that adds 5% damage would also hardly be overpowering.

-Elije

Arch Magi

01-06-2005, 04:11 PM

I'm still trying to figure out why a 3 to 6 foot long bow made out of wood has about 2-3 times the burden as a 3 to 6 foot long sword made out of steel?

Personally, they need to make bows about 1/4th the burden as they are. 960 BU for a bow is bogus, when a my sword toon, who already has a 100 base strenght carries a pack and a half of swords that weigh about 290-350 BU.

ChocolateWeasel

01-06-2005, 04:57 PM

Could you (Turbine) please be a little bit more clear on what you're trying to accomplish, big picture wise?

The general impression I got from the news is that you're allowing people to do a little bit more damage in exchange for a new restriction: specifically finding and equipping an appropriate weapon to use.

The only net advantage is that there's now more potentially useful loot to discover and sort through.

Let me be a bit more clear. For someone who actually enjoys "twinking" their character to get the maximum possible benefit out of it, this is great news. As a previous question demonstrates, yes, there are people who want to do the work in finding a new weapon and tinkering it to the extent they get that extra 3-5% of damage.

However, for the people who just enjoy wandering out to the Valley of Death, exploring, looking for new stuff, and in general, beating up on monsters, this doesn't really do anything at all. For example, as a mage, let's say I go up against a tusker assailer, cast a level 7 firebolt and and do 250 points of damage. With the +3% damage bonus, I do 258 points of damage. In the long run, it's still going to take me two or three firebolts to kill the assailer, and in my opinion, that's not worth hoarding sing keys again.

Hypothetically, say I run into a situation where I do a staggering 500 points of damage. A 5% bonus means I do 525 points of damage. That's nice, but I'm sure the monsters I'd need the bonus against have tens of thousands of hit points; it may take me 8-9 bolts to kill a monster I normally kill in 10-12. With a high mana C and a high war skill, the total number of bolts needed isn't important to me. I save maybe 2 minutes of my time and 200 pyreals in component costs. Again, for the casual player, that's really not that big of a deal to bother searching for seven new wands corresponding to each damage type.

Since you (Turbine) assert each archtype is going to get a similar advantage, I don't see how a couple of extra points of damage is going to matter to the melees complaining about life magic.

Quite frankly, I was hoping for a paradigm shift like the introduction of critical strike/crippling blow/rending weapons. However, I'm sure you've thought about the matter far extensively than I have, and I suspect there's something obvious and significant about higher-damage weapons that I completely and utterly missed, beyond the "aint it cool" factor.

So what are you hoping to accomplish?

Mc Que

01-06-2005, 05:53 PM

For the last few months I have been really really excited about the "new weild weapons". I mean for the first time in a very long time I was truely excited about new loot in AC. It would mean countless hours of hunting & salvaging & tinking for something new that would truely improve my character, that I could trade, that would make an impact.

Last month when the talked about bonuses to different elemental types I got even more exctied in the prospect of so many new items being introduced. It would bring back that excited feeling everytime you open a corpse of what may be there.

Today when I read that the bonuses would be a few points to any certain elemental type it almost hurt. It felt like someone just tantalized me with a steak & then gave me a piece of beef jerky. I felt insulted.

I know I am over reacting but you have to understand I was soooo looking foward to this. 3 months of anticipation were ruined in about 5 seconds. :(

You say:
"Since the introduction of wield-req weapons, we've introduced bigger and tougher creatures, and players have advanced to higher and higher levels of skill. But there's been no new equipment to strive for beyond the existing limits"

But don't you know that alot of these new bigger tougher creature have 5000+ hp?

A few points of damage means nothing.

Its hard to believe Turbine missed so badly on this.

Bruiserk

01-06-2005, 05:55 PM

Lame!!

I would rather have seen damage increase for missile just as with melee. I won't be wasting my time with the new weapons. The bonus just isn't big enough.

And yet again, another fallen expectation from Turbine. Just like AC2: Fallen Expectations.

Ibn

01-06-2005, 06:21 PM

Please tell me missile weapons can get the bomus to all 7 damage types and not just fire, frost, acid and lightning.

Yes, all 7 damage types.

Ibn

01-06-2005, 06:22 PM

Ibn

01-06-2005, 06:23 PM

Give us outdoor hunting, where we can make the equivalent of those who dungeon-crawl. Matron Hive can do around 20 million an hour, or more if it is not too camped, (conservatively), and the best I can do outdoors, alone, anywhere in Dereth as a melee is 6-8 million an hour. (Depending on the Spawns)

The withered area (see LttP) has both outdoor and dungeon hunting.

Ibn

01-06-2005, 06:28 PM

My question is to you Ibn is, why would you guys put the elemental damage bonus on bows, xbows & casters & not include melee weapons for these bonuses? If anything, it's the Melee weapons that need these bonuses alot more than bows, xbows & casters.

Melee weapons are getting a flat damage bonus. Since the majority of melee weapons can only do 1 type of damage and only a handful can 2, that's essentially the same thing.

I mean, what's the point of a slashing bonus on a sword when you can just increase the base damage? Unless it's an fire/ice/acid/electric sword, it's only doing slashing/piercing anyways.

Tahjn

01-06-2005, 06:33 PM

I like this idea alot and am glad to see it so soon.

Just curious if there are any plans to use some of the existing salvaged materials that don't have a use to be able to increase the %modifier on wands and the damage modifier on missile weapons. Or spells perhaps to increase them?

Chrono

01-06-2005, 07:48 PM

Damage type bonus on a bow = LAME.

ALL weapons should have a flat damage bonus, it wouldn't hurt the res rending babies, but people who rely on AR for multiple damage types get screwed out of it, thanks a ****ing lot.

Uza's and Zao

01-06-2005, 11:15 PM

Howdy,

I am the rare lvl 126 dagger character. :eek: From what I am able to come up with there are a few items of concern to me, most of which have been around since the start. Granted as a dagger i realize i have limited myself to just about anything that is high melee...I have 400 base melee and dagger skill, but other than that i have low hp and such with magics at 240.

With the introduction of new weaponry, I am able to do more dammage over time, which is always a good thing :D . However, mages and missiles which i do not understand why they could possible complain....and yes i have both those types of chars....when they are able to do their elemental dammage through spells and fletched arrows which can already do in excess of 1000 dammage per spell or arrow if something is vulned and you get a crit, meanwhile i might get a crit of 100-130 doing full speed, which is needed as a dag to try to keep up, utilizing the inherant quickness of that class. As for those who were talking about needing a lot of more burden worth of weaponry, my xbower has 5 xbows on him at all times anyways since he hunts the vod and caul, of which he prob only need an ar and fr, and the fr will just be traded out for a cold bonused fr after the update. The burden of these weapons is just one way of evening out power of the classes. While i realize they will have to get upgrades over time to be fair, I was just hoping that melee's could catch up a little, before the rest kept going.

I have tried to solo out in both vod and on caul with limited success. This is mainly due to the limitations of my magic skill and low dammage output. By the sounds of which might be solved by the new hunting area, which I hope i will be able to get 120 mil in a day without having to hunt in the 80+ olthoi for 8-12 hrs at a time(those of you on WE have prob seen me there all day before).
*prays to be released from the dirty dungeon*
Although i know the weapons classes will never be fully balanced, and i do not expect them to be, since some definately have more advantages than others.

Overall i guess it boils down to this,

1) the new weaponry is a little overdue but a welcomed changed for the speedy time it has been in production, and i greatly appreciate it, even thought i can't wait for a 400 wield dirk to come out. ;)

2) the new elemental attunes will probably need to be reworked as needed as time goes by to allow for somewhat the same "balance"(for lack of better term) there is now in the game.

3) the new hunt area will welcomed and i will have to test it out before i decide on it.

PS: if you would like me to elaborate a lil clearer on this...u can find me on WE on uza's dagger or zao-chen. I will be glad to explain my viewpt on these items. Chances are i have thought about it at one time or another as i have played on and off since the beta.

Balderson

01-06-2005, 11:33 PM

Very well spoken Uza.
I welcome the new hunting grounds as well. I am a lvl 129 UA and unless I live in a Hive in a fellow (which as many have already stated, is usually camped), hunting alone I can only gather 6 mil an hour.
It takes 100+ mil to raise my UA skill 1 point...you do the math.

I like to hunt alone as well but the xp just isnt there so only do it when I am bored and pretty much gotten to the point where my main toon is capped as far as I am concerned cause its too exhausting to try and enhance him further.
And as you have said. You bow peeps and Mages or even the macers, you can get 500 - 1000 points of damage per hit on a critical hit. I am lucky to get 65.
And someone also said about the VOD hunting alone... oh yeah... thats a lost cause as a melee. Paragons, highlevel Virindi, Jello.... You whack away and away and away and you never get them below 98%

So your making a good step in the right direction Turbine. I will be eager to try it out and thank you for your efforts.

As a fellow developer and applications analyst I know all of the target audience will not be pleased. But you can consider me part of your 80%

Keep plugging away at it.

A loyal AC Customer. ;)

thorn696

01-07-2005, 07:22 AM

Thank you very much for this new chance to hunt solo with out haveing to worry about magic skills. Futher more I also thank you for the new wepons. Both theas together will help greatly :) . I would however like to ask the same old question???? When will we get to have a higher chance of tinking a weapon.... By this I mean, %33 chance to get it righ on a imub. is a little low. and what of haveing more then 10 tinks to any thing. If you look at it some thing are already so hard to tink that you can only tink it 6-8 times any ways. But IF... we could work oure skill up it would be nice to be able to just keep tinking the same weapon and let it grow with us instead of scraping/selling them every so offten so as to get a better one as times change. This is just a thought... And I in no way am compailning about this woundfull gift that you are giveing us this month. thank you again Very much for the chance to once again solo and actuly be able to come up with the 100mill xp to raise my bow skill 1 point. maybe I'll even b able to do this in under 3 months now :)

MaddyFF

01-07-2005, 11:41 AM

Wow cant wait to get a weopen that does 2 more points a damage a hit.

It will work out to more then 2 points on the average over time.

Bruiserk

01-07-2005, 03:21 PM

It will work out to more then 2 points on the average over time.

Actually, it's not supposed to be capped at 2 points.

It's a supposed 5% bonus DoT.

At best it will save you 1 swing, or 1 arrow/bolt in a fight. I guess that's better than no increase. Plus they're going to release even higher wields later. I'll keep my eyes open for a new sword, but that' about it.

For the bows it would be worth it to me if it was a flat damage increase, but as proposed it's not worth it. The damage increase would have to be significantly higher than 5% DoT for me to consider giving up even more pack space and burden to carry more bows. I can only imagine how bad this is going to be for an X-bower.

The worst part is that this is being introduced without any player input, so no matter what this is the lame crap bows and x-bows will be stuck with.

Thanks for nothin'!

MaddyFF

01-07-2005, 05:47 PM

Actually, it's not supposed to be capped at 2 points.

It's a supposed 5% bonus DoT.

Yes, but I was quoting the person that stated the 2 points.

I think people need to give it a chance with tinked weapons to see how it will play out in game.

Wasarcher

01-08-2005, 06:59 AM

Use this thread to give us your feedback on the coming Higher Wield-Req weapons. You can read the article here (http://ac.turbinegames.com/index.php?page_id=335).

Plse Plse Plse I just wish you ppl would redress the balance concerning Archers...Higher wield Weapons is just Great but if you cant hit what you're aiming at...there's absolutely NO point in having them......My archer wanted to commit Suicide but was evaded.......

Any other archers/xbower's out there who feel the same?

Bruiserk

01-08-2005, 03:12 PM

Plse Plse Plse I just wish you ppl would redress the balance concerning Archers...Higher wield Weapons is just Great but if you cant hit what you're aiming at...there's absolutely NO point in having them......My archer wanted to commit Suicide but was evaded.......

Any other archers/xbower's out there who feel the same?

LOL!!!

Yeah, I think that was the first nerf in a series that started lowering my time in-game, to the point where I'm waiting to see how the X-pack turns out. If it doesn't "WoW"(no pun intended as I don't think I'll be playing that game) me, then I'll be cancelling.

After seeing the things they've done to AC1, the way that they handled AC2, and how things have been going with MEO, I think I have to question Turbines competency.

Wasarcher

01-08-2005, 05:47 PM

A max damage 315 wield req bow, untinkered, will have an average DoT about 5% higher than an untinkered max damage 290 wield req bow, assuming you're using the right element for the elemental bonus.

Keep this in mind: you could possibly find a 315 wield req bow with a 130 damage mod AND the best elemental damage bonus and THEN tink the damage mod up to 166.

Checking the specs, bows actually tend to be a little higher than the average 5% increase.

Now here's a thing...does Anyone remember the 'Pre-Patch' weapons! I can remember my Patron having a 'Pre-Patch' bow 130DM and only 250 wield....Do I detect a case of Deja Vu.........or am I being overly pessimistic.
Are we now going to see a 130DM bow thats 315 to wield?

Wasarcher

01-08-2005, 06:05 PM

LOL!!!

Yeah, I think that was the first nerf in a series that started lowering my time in-game, to the point where I'm waiting to see how the X-pack turns out. If it doesn't "WoW"(no pun intended as I don't think I'll be playing that game) me, then I'll be cancelling.

After seeing the things they've done to AC1, the way that they handled AC2, and how things have been going with MEO, I think I have to question Turbines competency.

I remember the nerfs starting.....'they' decided a range weapon wasn't 'cricket' and changed it... made it so you couldn't hit anything at distance....ooops 'they' then admitted that was wrong and changed it.......so that you could hit at range but you couldn't hit anything up close...now it's my experience that everytime I 'shoot' at a nasty..it doesn't tuck it's tail between it's legs and skiddaddle but on the contrary closes the distance and attacks you face to face..........thats where my problems start......

Bruiserk

01-09-2005, 01:56 AM

What's the point in an accuracy bar if you can't use it except for PK?

But, to be on topic, why did they decide to go with a different bonus on missile weapons? And why would they think that we would be happy with it?

Another sign of incompetence.

Wasarcher

01-09-2005, 03:32 AM

'The missile weapons have a twist to them – 315 wield-req missile weapons will receive a bonus to a specific elemental type. For example you might find a 315 wield-req bow that has a damage modifier of 127% as well as a +2 to fire damage. Whenever fire arrows are used with this bow, it will do an additional 2 points of damage to the target. (And no, +2 is not the best that you can find!)'

Actually copied from the notes, so I was right you're not going to get higher DM bows but the 290 wield bows -130DM is gonna change to 315 wield...thus nerfing the poor poor archer even more......WHY?

Bruiserk,
my accuracy bar is cranked way over to the rightand stays there...thats why it takes me 2 weeks to fire an arrow and is even more frustrating when one gets evaded so many times. What really upsets me tho is when I have a Huge beastie (Golem,Lugian) stood in front of me bashing away at my head like they were playing on a drum and the message comes up 'your missile has hit the environment'...How? it couldn't get past the critter unless it came outa the bow sideways and with a bow skill of 405 I'm sure I know how to attach an arrow to a bow!

El_Kingo

01-09-2005, 10:19 AM

The higher wield req weapons seem nice, for mages and archers.
As a melee character, i find it disturbing once again that melee characters don't get the nice bonuses that mages and archers get.

Mages the most powerful in the game, are getting nice damage bonuses to thier wands... archers get a simular bonus if not the same.. and sword guys get left in the dark with what looks like a simple boon again.

I hunted in Vod with my monarchy, and the mages that where in the fellowship could deal over 1000 points with magic.. seemed that bow guys where alsoe bringing down big creatures with ease... I was stuck doing damage in the 100's and 200's.

I know it takes alot of skill credits from war magic, but it just seems to me that the guys who deal the most damage, and level up easier at high levels, are doing all the griping, while us lowely sword guys who only spend 8 credits to train sword (im argueing for all melees) do little in the way of griping.

In short.. I think its unfair..

(oh I read about some guy who was talking about carrying several imbued bows and wands and such.... why on dereth wouldn't you already have a cold rend bow, or wand and a fire rend? I got all the swords...)

Bruiserk

01-09-2005, 02:37 PM

(oh I read about some guy who was talking about carrying several imbued bows and wands and such.... why on dereth wouldn't you already have a cold rend bow, or wand and a fire rend? I got all the swords...)

For me personally, because I use an AR if I'm hunting out doors. I will also bring a Blud Rend for Golems and Bugs. Otherwise, if I'm going to be hunting something specific, I'll bring that particular Rend.

The plan they have in place ruins that for me. Now I will have to carry a bow of each type of damage to use the higher wield bows. Sorry, but my pack space and burden are at a premium, and it's not worth it for a whopping 5% DoT increase. Drop the burden on bows (which as someone stated earlier, a wooden bow should never weigh more than a sword) and give me an extra pack or prismatic focii, and I'll use the new bows.

The higher wield bows is just a stupid idea.

Myk

01-09-2005, 06:01 PM

Madgic

01-09-2005, 06:22 PM

HIya me again,

I probably posted far too late for it to get read but hay here goes anyway.

My usual obvious for you Guys to look at.

Bow Max Damage on lets say the Olthoi Queen 250 +5 255 with a new Bow.

Mage max Damage on the queen 600 +5% 630 with a new wand.

Yes Turbine again you have made things verry fair and ballenced, If your gonna increase the damage on Bows at least give us a % and make it an overall bonus I dont think you realise how hard it is to land an imbue on a max damage weapon let alone to find one wheras a wand will be just, "Lerts go out and grab a few hundred and land one" as always and them afetr all that they get + 30 Bows get +5 Im sorry but with Critters insame missile D mowadays Bows are severely getting nerfed.

Give Bows a max damage of lets say 135% Damage Mod and Maybe wands an up to +5% overall damage that still wont be fair but its alot closer. or Why not make Diamond an imbue that does not take up a tink, but still has the same 10% as all other weapon Imbues, that adds +5% damage to all weapons.

Oh another thing im sure you havnt looked at. Ring spells do about the same damage as Bow Damage, so now the bow does lets say 100 damage and the ring does the same, now the bow hits 1 critter so does an extra 5 damage the war spell hits up to 10 critters so does an extra 50 damage but over the 10 critters it does an extra 945 damage over and above a Bow.

So damage over time 3 sec/Bow = 105 wand = 1050, it doesnt take a genious to work out thats all wrong and thats even with the mage using a week spell.

Wasarcher

01-10-2005, 03:03 AM

This time instead of being disruptive, I'll try to be constructive

If you have to increase wield req on bows to 315 then make it worth going the extra 25 pts of bow for. Increase the DM (dam mod) to a relevent lvl ie:- 290 wield-130DM(what we have now), 315 wield=155DM, 325 wield=165DM, make it so archers dont miss so much, Reduce BU on Bows and Xbows(why does a wooden bow weigh twice/three times as much as a metal sword?), reduce BU on arrows and bolts, 10bu per arrow is a tad much when you can carry a Ornate Fountain or a Couch around and they weigh only 50 bu(5 arrows)! btw not that 1 carries around couches or fountains.

Bruiserk

01-10-2005, 07:06 PM

I would much rather have had it raised such as you said, but I can't see them raising damage that much. It is much better than what is proposed though.

Just wish it wasn't too late for them to make the change.

Wasarcher

01-11-2005, 02:07 AM

Ya know the more I think about the bow change the more I think bow is getting the shaft and here is why.

All the new high req melee weapons will have a damage increase. So the top sword at the current max weild req is 24-40. I am thinking that the worst one at the new max wield req will be better than 24-40. Even if it is just 25-41 it is an improvement.

Now bow is like this
290 Wield 123%, 125%, 127%, 130%

So we will find a 315 wield 123% mod +1 to fire. Which is actually worse than a current 130 mod and no better than a current 127 mod.

the only way he new bows are even close to be fair is if all the 315 wield bows come in only 130% mod. :mad:

Cant be fair even if they only come in at 130DM we've got those now and at only 290 wield, why have to spend another 25 pts on bow to get something we have now........They're done this before at one time you could get 130DM bows at 250 wield....if you're about to score a touchdown and the Umpires suddenly move the posts back a further 25 yds, one wouldn't be so happy. But TURBINE figure no-ones gonna notice or if they do notice tough, Turbines gonna do it anyway..........THAT my friends is why a lot of ppl are leaving this game.

Logan Conrad

01-11-2005, 07:45 AM

To make where I got Richter's quote from more clear.Now bow is like this
290 Wield 123%, 125%, 127%, 130%

So we will find a 315 wield 123% mod +1 to fire. Which is actually worse than a current 130 mod and no better than a current 127 mod.

the only way he new bows are even close to be fair is if all the 315 wield bows come in only 130% mod. :mad:

I concur with you Myk!

As a general rule of thumb, +1 damage is approximately equal to 4-5% increase in the damage mod, depending of course on your coordination and base bow skill.

It actually depends on the weapon's mod and ammo used, so you can't say Minor/Major BT adds an exact percent. 10% for Minor and 20% for Major is usually close, but if you want to know exactly there's a calculator in my signature that will tell you.

The above quote was taken from an Archer's Stop board thread found here:

http://vnboards.ign.com/AC_Archers_Stop/b5147/81222513/?5

Richter_Belmont_AC's calculators can be found here:

http://richter.hopto.org/ac/calcmain.htm

El_Kingo

01-11-2005, 05:16 PM

For me personally, because I use an AR if I'm hunting out doors. I will also bring a Blud Rend for Golems and Bugs. Otherwise, if I'm going to be hunting something specific, I'll bring that particular Rend.

The plan they have in place ruins that for me. Now I will have to carry a bow of each type of damage to use the higher wield bows. Sorry, but my pack space and burden are at a premium, and it's not worth it for a whopping 5% DoT increase. Drop the burden on bows (which as someone stated earlier, a wooden bow should never weigh more than a sword) and give me an extra pack or prismatic focii, and I'll use the new bows.

The higher wield bows is just a stupid idea.

I see your point. (sorry im not a bow guy.. didnt really look at the impact)
I think we can both agree the new weapons are only good for mages though.

want to balance it make the new bows 130% mod base, and leave out the wands all together.

i can see where it would be differnt for me.. nice strength for my melee guy.. heck i carry swords i dont even use just cause im too lazy to mule them

the bonus id like to see to swords or bows is something that gets our damage closer to that of mages

it makes me not even want to play when a mage can do over 1000 points same level as me, and i can only do 150 at best

Wasarcher

01-12-2005, 01:39 AM

I see your point. (sorry im not a bow guy.. didnt really look at the impact)
want to balance it make the new bows 130% mod base, and leave out the wands all together.

i

We already have 130DM bows at only 290 wield so why bring in bows that are 130DM at 315 wield unless you wanna 'nerf' archers more by making them go another 25pts before they can use the 'new' bows.

Bruiserk

01-12-2005, 03:57 AM

We already have 130DM bows at only 290 wield so why bring in bows that are 130DM at 315 wield unless you wanna 'nerf' archers more by making them go another 25pts before they can use the 'new' bows.

He might mean that every 315 wield bow is at least 130% mod. I would still rather see the higher wields jump in base damage mod, starting at 130, rather than this foolish bump to damage type. If Turbine is steadfast in their decision, then I would at the very least like to see them come in at a base 130.

As was posted earlier, a 130% old style will be at least as good as a 127% high wield. And you get the versatility of the 130 that you don't get with the high wield.

I have two thoughts here. Turbine must have known that people wouldn't like this idea. Either that, or they really just don't have a clue. Those are the only two reasons that they would just spring it on us, instead of asking how we feel about it before implementing it.

Why would you make something that you know your players aren't going to be happy with? Or, if you are really so clueless that you didn't know archers wouldn't like this idea, why wouldn't you ask the players about the idea first?

Bruiserk

01-12-2005, 04:36 AM

Wasarcher

01-12-2005, 06:46 AM

I need to make an apology here. I didn't read the December LttP, and apparently in there, it did state that the new bows would get a bonus to an elemental type, so this wasn't just "sprung" on us.

I now wish I had read that, so I could've have at least voiced my displeasure over this idea earlier in the development phase. I do still stand by my displeasure over the concept and think that the new missile weapons will hardly be used.

Higher Wield-Req Weapons
We've been teasing these for several months now and we're happy to be able to announce that the first tiers will likely be added to loot in the January event. These include new melee weapons with a 350 wield requirement, missile weapons with a 315 wield requirement and magic casters with 290 and 310 War Magic wield requirements.

The higher wield-req melee weapons will simply do more damage than existing weapons. The missile weapons and magic casters will gain a damage bonus based off a specific elemental type. For example, a 290 or 310 wield-req caster might receive a damage bonus to all fire-based War spells. For all other spells, it would act the same as a standard caster.

We'll be presenting more details on this in the near future, before the January Letter to the Players.

Nothing in there that says the Missile weapons are only gonna be 130DM (which we have now)...One would have assumed that higher wield would mean better Damage Modifier....... unless you're Turbine of course.

cliser

01-12-2005, 12:48 PM

I play two char type, Archers and Mages. I don't play melee because I absolutely HATE sticky melee.

The more I play the fewer Archers I have and the more Mages.

Why ?

Because Bow drops are a joke.

I complained for nearly a year that the drop rate on 130mod bows was considerably lower than other weapon types.

The 'fix' for this was to make 130 drops even more rare by adding useless 290 wield req weapons like 123 and 125 mods.

Even 127s have to be a work level lower to equate to the 130s. 123s and 125s just arent worth the mahog.

So currently I get a bow worth imbuing maybe once a month (and 2 out of 3 of those blow up), compared to wands where I can get a couple of work 6 +10 +10 (or similar or better) per hunting session.
(A work 6 +10 +10 wand can be easily tinked and buffed to be +27 +27) which is a very nice wand indeed.

Bottom line it means I can get all the wands I want in a week or two compared to getting one good bow in maybe three months.

So tell me why I should be at all excited about new weapons that (at best) add 5% DoT and will make imbue-able bows even more rare (as the bonus will have to tie in with the imbue I want)

In fact I got so sick of trying to get bows that I shelved my Archer main altogether.

DwynnsPlace

01-12-2005, 01:17 PM

Been playing sence 1999, yea! I'm addicted.

Have to comment here, many macroed, ex pt chain / master fellow Guru's / and cry babies haven't experienced a full character development (without magic use), and I don't want to read a comment from them.
(I played when there were NO BOTS!)

I have played toons that are strickly, mage, sword, mace, bow and each of the combinations possible with mages at levels from 0 - 98, yes I play an average of an hour or three a day. Of course not all on the same server and not on the same account.

Mages have always recieved the favor because the game is designed so that those that are mages can rely on their own magic use to BUFF themselves and there-by compete and surpass the warriors or archers.

Yes that is a form of "mini-maxing" but that is the common, and I guess some would say the intellegent way to develope a character but, this game is designed for fellowships and teamwork. A mage supporting a warrior or two by "BUFFING" the maxed warrior and being protected by the warriors, and a mage "IMPING" and "VULNING" the enemy would benefit more than a mage who takes forever trying to improve his or her physical combat proficiency.
(That mage's limits would soon be met and they would be conciderably less then a specialised toon)

Here is the problem, *(EXAMPLE)*

The mage player thinks "I can do it all myself!" of course he or she hunts only in large groups or in areas well under the capability of the creatures from harming to any great extent said mage.....Then the mages cry they need more!

Warriors always believe they can do it all themselves, but they are the first to ask a mage for "BUFFS", I know cause I do it all the time with my Swordmistress toon.

So the imbalance isn't with the Mages, or the archers or the swordsmen or women. It's with the (PLAYERS).

Yes some adjustments need to be made.
Suggestion:
Stop the mobile advancement of the mages and concentrate on the melea' charactors. Mages are fine and when they learn to hunt and support warriors during a battle, they will find they might have a better survivability on the field.

The higher valued swords are a good thing and that might help restore the balance, archers of high level just need to make tyheir own clorisite arrows and that would help them a little more. Mages have enough on their plate, stop the advancement of their class, an imbalance is already noted, don't make it worse.

I have more insiteful (LOL) remarks yet I'll let others chew on these for a bit.
Can't wait to read the comments.

Peace!

Gaetano

01-12-2005, 01:31 PM

"So the imbalance isn't with the Mages, or the archers or the swordsmen or women. It's with the (PLAYERS)."

You are so absolutely correct. This cannot be argued logically or with any merit that would hold up for 2 minutes.

Mages (Myself Included) say I can do it all myself...eventually. Why? Because we can cast big "Wompum" and wear awesome armor all at once. What a deal :D

Melee/Missile say as long as I have my shield, I will whip this critters butt, just gonna take time. And...I can cast big "Wompum" on myself and this monster to ensure I win...Don't forget I have awesome armor too.

See the rift.

Mages have a warrior's armor and warriors have a mage's magic. As long as this exist, this game is unfixable. There should be limits.

/e kicks dead horse

SlashBroker

01-12-2005, 01:49 PM

I will not be getting or using any new bows.

I hardly ever use an elemental arrow.

I mean geez, in VOD, I use slash on virindis and Oblits.

So I don't have to worry about blowing up new bows.

DwynnsPlace

01-12-2005, 03:20 PM

Ok so give the melee's their next level in weapon mods and bonuses and restrict mages to leather and hide armor!

What a concept!

Mages WITHOUT ARMOR!

I am sooo shocked someone would actually print this!

DOH!

WarriorWraith

01-12-2005, 03:31 PM

I never did like the "tinkering" thing that you guys put in the game. In doing so, you have eliminated all possibilities of getting the best weapons the game has to offer off the table through quests or special hunts.

Now, you want to add high wield req weapons for high level players. I have a better suggestion, why not make more high level hunting grounds with monsters that emulate the HL player's attributes, but could be vulned or even debuffed some as to make the hunt and the rewards more appealing ?

Add things like specialty weapons like a dual bow with rapid fire or bow that shoots arrows that are 10 times more deadly than deadlies, but requires a 300+ fletching skill to make them.

Fact of the matter is that mages rule the game. They are the bread and butter of the fighting classes. However, you always need to find a delightful balance between races and weapons and skills.

My suggestion, revamp some of the trophey weapons to be better than any tinkered weapon (such as making the hollow bow a ravenous bow) with a 145%+ mod and 3 spells on to enhance the user's abilities. Or maybe why not give archers the ability to cast spells on their bundles of arrows or arrowheads.

Oh well, fallen on deaf ears again ! Maybe next time !

Rhowanduir

01-12-2005, 04:10 PM

Use this thread to give us your feedback on the coming Higher Wield-Req weapons. You can read the article here (http://ac.turbinegames.com/index.php?page_id=335).

I think this is a great idea. Especially the part about newbs being able to obtain something they can actually do some damage with. Quite possibly could even encourage some of the new blood to stay with the game. I mean when you have created 6 or more characters then you pretty much know how to go about gettin where you want to be. But after suffering a disabling illness i quickly remembered what a pain and disheartening challenge it was to level as a newb, quite easy to become discouraged and just quit playing. And change is a good thing on a game like this, change takes you even farther away from the real world. ;)

Full_Eclipse

01-12-2005, 04:14 PM

Ok, I've been throguh and read many of the posts. Not all of them,(especialy not the life story posts) but enough to see what others think. One thing is , some are right about the problem but not right about why the problem is so.
First off, bowers are not getting screwed. Your 166 mod AR will do the same ammount of damage as your 166 mod AR with bonuses even if you arent useing the bonus damage arrows! Also, its no diferent then carrying around 7 render bows if you will. The problem has always been Bow skill is raised by attributes of coord, and melee coord and quick, wich meens we dont start off with much strength compared to other melee types. So weight was a problem before this. Nothing has changed.
Second, i Find just as good of loot in 80+ matron hive as in vod , so a non-mage char should have no trouble finding these new weapons.
Third i would have to agree that everytime i get a full set of max damage weapons made up for my toons something better comes out and they all are scrapped. Somthing needs to be done with this. Very frustrating. Just as bad as getting a toon to lvl 80 just to reroll him over and over again.
Ok heres my issues on the new bonuses to weapons,as explained above, its sucks starting over again. To resolve this simply make a up-grading quest gem of sort of diferent elements that you would add to a weapon for extra bonuses therefore raising the weapons current wield. This i think everyone would agree with. This would solve alot of false opinions.

But heres the thing, you already made the weapons avaiable so it's to late?
Your turbine owner of AC you can do whatever you want. I have many other good points on all kinds of things that could happen to make AC better than ever. Just let me know if ya need an opinion on something.

Full_Eclipse

01-12-2005, 04:23 PM

Gaetano says Melee/Missile say as long as I have my shield, I will whip this critters butt, just gonna take time. And...I can cast big "Wompum" on myself and this monster to ensure I win...
since when do archers get to use shields???????

This is an example of true problems but not a reason why problem is so.
But never in my life have i ever played a gma eor even read a book Where mages and warriors can wear the same armor class. For example mages should be limited to wearing A class armor (amuli) Archers B class (koujia)
and wariors Class c (celdon)
as i say just an example but im sure numbers are nowhere close to where they would need to be.

airco

01-12-2005, 04:32 PM

oky we do got new higher dam weapons all of us how is this supposed to make melee chars stronger?? all type of chars got it so at the end the dammage gap or rather the hunting posabilety of melee chars/archers / mages stays the same doesent it?? its calculated to do 5%more dam for melees woohoo we finaly kil faster and catch up whit archers and mages.wrong answer archers do also 5%more dam and so kil again faster and same whit mages. nauw iam sorry if i made u think i cared about how fast i killed a creature that wasent the point i was trying to make i just want the chars to be more equal if not equal on dam atleast make em need eachother sommehow plz. (ofcourse iam talking about myself maybe intresting to take a pol to know how other peeps think about it)

Full_Eclipse

01-12-2005, 04:37 PM

And here we go again!

Archer=no shield
Melee = shield
but they should both do same ammount of damage over time?????
how would that be even???

Any how things arent suposed to be even in this type of lore.
Whether your melee archer mage whatever. All should be better at doing somthing than all the rest. But atm seems mage can do anything all the rest can do. Only place a mage doesnt have the advantage is in a dungeon as there is no range for them to get a critacal blow in beofre the critters moves in.

DwynnsPlace

01-12-2005, 05:23 PM

Couple points: EXAMPLE
Burun Kings quest, fighting Kiree,
My Melee spec sword and Melee Def 98th level was wacking into Kiree with her frost rend frost sword. She was the lowest level there and 90% of the 20+ group was 126+. almost all of the mage/126+ toons stayed well out of range of Kiree. My toon was swallowed twice and she eventually LS out sence Kiree was killed while my toon was still inside. My toon drank 30 Trade health elixirs and ate 5 Tumerock salted meats to stay inside and hack on that creature.

This melee toon did massive damage to Kiree and recieved nothing for it yet all the ohers that cast spells and remained at range got the rewards.

Melees all, are taken advantage of by those arround them. This was an example of mage favoratism, not only in play, but by design from the designers of the campaign.

As long as this idea and belief that warriors are second class citizens in AC, then there will be a problem.

If you take a Sword toon and match him up against a mage toon both the same level, and you take the magic away from the mage toon, debuff both toons... and the Mage wins a battle? something is deffinantly wrong with the game.

How is it that a mage has to put points into all four magics as well as all three MD's, stats, and skills and still can compete as a warrior of the same level in melee combat? ......Something Wrong here.

Higher req. weapons for higher level Warrior classed toons only!
Make all the new weapons, Warriors or melee weapon spec req only!

Peace!

Twizted One

01-12-2005, 08:52 PM

Well I play a mage mainly but I can see why alot of people have problems against them. I have a high level sword toon that I rarely play anymore because he can't do squat compaired to my mage. I wouldn't mind seeing some weapons that have a speced skill only wield req as well as some spells. It would give us another reason to spec skills.

Cheezy Archer

01-14-2005, 05:03 PM

Well everybody has an archer toon so L33t bows have always been a t a premium. I have looted 7 rings of sings and the best bow i have pulled was a Work 5 130 +2pierce +8MD. I nuked that bow. out of 150 sings i found 4 work 6 315 weild bows none of them had a bosun over +4 and only one of them was a 130.

Maybe in a year i will find about 3 uber bows and land a tink on 1. Curious what these bows will be trades for. I would get a work 4 PR %130 +5 price would sell for about 10000plats. And at the rate good bows drop it would probably be well worth it.

El_Kingo

01-18-2005, 05:21 PM

I did mean that i thought the new bows should be at least 130 mod, with the bonus..

i was meaning it should be possible to find a bow something like this:

135 mod +5 acid
you get the point

and i still think melees got the shaft

id really hate to be a staffer or dagger guy... the ones ive found so far suck
20 max damage? c'mon
and as far as sword goes
an extra 5 damage isnt worth tinkering all my old swords over for
and ive yet to find a sword thats low craft (4 or 5 is what i usually look for) with at least +10 +10

i do like the bonus to magic def i tend to look for +1.5 to 2 on that
my idea of a good sword is usually 24-39 +10 melee +10 attack +2 magic def

best "new" sword ive found so far is 22-44 +5 melee +6 attack craft 4
woot i feel the love

El_Kingo

01-18-2005, 05:30 PM

something i read about in the history books that would be easy to impliment and historical... although practical i dunno

a bow shield

it was a shield smaller that a buckler that was made onto the bow

i think in game it shouldnt be able to buff with 220 al... but it would be a nice addition to see

archers sorta get shafted with the melee thing.. i see the point there.. but all melees get is a shield.. yeah mine buffs to al 445 which is nice.. but archers do get a nice ranged attack.. which dont help in dungeons, but dang if you get 2 -3 attacks off before it gets to you.. why do you need all the extra al?

once again i dunno cause i dont play bow.. but im pretty sure bow does more damage that sword but its an ok trade off i think
i think we are closer to being balanced that mages vrs melee or mages vrs archers

my patron is a mage and i quote him on this "this game is just getting too easy"

oh yeah... to turbine: when new people come to this site.. and see nothing but people frustrated, thats been playing this game since beta... why would they want to buy the game?

Gaetano

01-20-2005, 12:56 PM

NO NO NO, Archers do not need a shield, WE are Archers for crying out loud.! My archer Ilume has a base MelD. over 400, I don't want a shield while using my bow. This makes the game even easier. A bow takes two hands, deal with it. Good grief.

Has anyone imbued one of these new weapons yet? I have, several of them in fact. So let me tell you in combat they are not worth the trouble. I can't believe they gave us a +1 to +5 and gave Mages +1 to +5%. This is a huge difference! :mad:

My mage like the the (%) advantage. For a wield of 310 I get this bonus. Is it worth it...you decide. I noticed that 3% or higher does yield a noticeable change in damage. Nothing to shout from the roof tops, but a marked increase non-the-less.

As for Bows...man did this go so very wrong. All I will say is Archers, don't waist your salvage. Unless you want the pretty graphic change. Turbine, you want to help archers, please lower the BU on arrows :D

Catkicker

01-20-2005, 08:23 PM

i was looking forward to the new bows, until i made one and saw the result. you raised the difficulty of the bow by 11.6%, but the damage went up by 2-3 points, less than a percent. eather im missing an effect that the bows have, or they are pretty much just new artwork. as things stand now, the only reason i'd look for a new bow is to fill a damage slot or upgrade an old bow that was w6+.

on an aside, i do see a lot more bows dropping this patch. nothing lower than w5 so far, but at least quite a few w5-6 bows.

Wasarcher

01-23-2005, 06:37 AM

seer

01-23-2005, 10:25 AM

please do not use " new " weapons to equalize profession unbalance. I would like a statistic generated showing new archers generated after the patch versus new mages generated and you tell me where the bias for profesion realy lies. thank you.

seeker

01-25-2005, 08:42 PM

So why did sword get such a disproportionately larger boost than mace and axe? :mad:
Are all melees supposed to be swordsman now? :confused:

johny walker

01-26-2005, 02:47 AM

ok maybe someone will read this im not sure never posted till now but i am just wundering this ..... i have a nice 125% 315weild bow that has a +2 woopy..??!! to peirce... i have rending on it and have the % up to 157 the highest % i have had on a bow . i like the new bow the look and the damage does the same as my old bow that was 153% hmmm wait thats not good .. whats up with that ???????? im geez ok next issue YOU CANT USE THE FETISH OF THE DARK IDOL ON THE NEW BOWS??????? i tried and no good kinda pissed me off cuz you know its soooooooooo easy to get them there dark idols . now i have a dark idol waitng for the old style bow that im making now so tell me what was the point in the new bows ???? oh and the fact that the game is prittty much off line when i get home from wrok till the time i have to go to bed every other day is getting old plzz fix it or shut it down cuz i can get a life and quit sitting infront of the computer paying your bills !!! oh i have been playing for about 4 years hmmm ac 5 years old you say ??? yea things not going well i play hg and there are now over 200 cotages for sale and 1 mansion hmmm could ppl be getting sick of your crap ?? i really hope the expansion pack is better if it ever comes out that is but hey im just your average everyday working class guy trying to get a brake from reality playing a game that is starting to be as irrritating as real life :eek: please dont get me wrong i love this game but some days i really look at that delete button just some things for you to think about next time you do a patch and arnt ready for it to run or want to tease everyone with new toys that are pritty much worthless but hey they do look really cool :rolleyes:

Mosswart Ninja

01-26-2005, 07:45 AM

:rolleyes: I'm going to be like Thumper in the movie Bambi. If I can't say something nice I won't say anything at all.

Davethewave

01-27-2005, 01:27 AM

Hiya, Well the idea was great, but I am sword and sword is quite dissapointing :( The Copper cutlass (325) owns any of the new 350 wield req that I've seen, and I have seen quite a few. I love that cutlass! but am just so saddened that the 350 are actually weaker than a 325 =\ sure they're tinkerable, but I am one of thoes players who don't have a tinker skill and find salvage a burden, so in my opinion the base of a 350 wield should be higher than the base of 325. :confused:

Wasarcher

01-27-2005, 03:02 AM

BrightYellow

01-27-2005, 07:48 AM

I haven't tested yet my new acid sword or my new electrical bow. But I did use extensively a bludgeon wand, and I'm a bit surprised by the result. The damage increase is supposed to be +5%, but my highest critical is now 869, instead of 841 before, which is a 3.3% increase. This is obtained at 360 base war, 445 buffed.

The test I made is very crude: I simply searched my log with "Critical hit! You bash Ravager for 8" and found nothing higher than 869 among 78 crits above 800 (this probably corresponds to several hundred shots).

Other than this possible bug, here are my comments on the new weapons:

Regarding balance:
- it hardly imbalances anything; in fact, it hardly changes anything compared to the major DoT changes we've seen recently. So the cries for nerf from whoever think they didnt get the same advantage as others are vastly exagerated.

Regarding burden:
- the new xbow burdens are reasonnable, I was afraid they would weigh 1900 bu. They're not as light as light xbows, but 1200 is closer to 900 than to 1900
- the new bows' bu is significantly higher then the light bows. This makes non-fletching archers even more bu-conscious.
- overall, missile chars willing to have a perfect equipment are now confronted to the weight problem of meleers, without the synergy for strength.

Regarding micro-management:
- it didn't solve my storage space problems. I did get rid of every single of my old weapons, and I blew almost all my imbue salvage, and I wiped all my reserves of mahogany, granite, brass, opal and iron. However, this great clean is completely compromised by the fact that many more bows and xbows need to be stored (other weapons's storage needs didn't change).
- Plus, I'm back to salvaging like a madman, which I think is the worst among the too many micro-management plagues of AC.

Regarding fun:
- yes, AC is also about loot and building "perfect" equipments. This completely renews my interest in looting.

Wasarcher

01-30-2005, 05:58 AM

The Higher wield bows are, quite frankly, a sheer waste of space. If you're going to produce higher wield weapons you HAVE to make them worth going that extra for. There is absolutely no point in having 315 wield bows that are worse DM wise than our 290 wield 130DM bows with Imbues and tinks they go to 166DM. Try getting the 315 wield 123DM,125DM,127DM wms 6+ bows I'm finding to those stats. As for the "bonus" what a joke, should have just added that to the relevent arrow, would make more reason/sense to me or are you deliberately 'forcing' us archers to HAVE TO carry the complete range of bows + complete range of arrows? If so then kindly remove the burden from the arrows and half the BU on the bows too.

Lag Beast

02-02-2005, 07:20 AM

They can be found in Sing Troves and VoD chests, yes.

Using melee weapons as an example, will the new 400 wield weapons be found in sing troves after the February 2005 event?

Anaximander

02-14-2005, 12:17 AM

The withered hunting grounds need to be enlarged and spawns increased over and above their pre-patch size. There are just too few now to effectively hunt.

There seems to be alot of wands dropping in comparison with bows and melee weapons.

Good luck trying to find a decent wand now unless you have war magic.

Anming_VT

03-01-2005, 02:34 AM

#1. I find very few wands, sceptres, orbs, etc. that are of the nonwar magic wield type in high profile loot. This is incredibly disappointing to melees and archers like me, who don't have war magic to wield the "fancy" wield-req war sceptres.

#2. Unfortunately, I still continue to find the damage I inflict on my target to be completely unsatisfactory, even when wielding a 10-time tinked 370 wield spear. I realize spears are not supposed to possess the same high damage ratio that swords, maces, axes, and the like possess. However, I do expect my 370 wield spear to produce the same, or near equivalent, damage as a 350 wield strength-based weapon of other types.

#3. This is my cheesier complaint. Spears are just plain boring. Even dirks look deadlier. I feel like I'm wielding a kabob stick and quite frankly that's the effect it has, high wield or not. I suggest making our new high-wield spears look a little bit more lethal? Perhaps the graphic can resemble a pole-arm type weapon more? I think the Fallen Spear's the best spear graphic in game hands down. With that in mind, make our higher weapons look better please. :o

Any other complaints I may have I'll just swallow. :) I'm afraid if I complain too much you'll just wind up making the game too easy to play and yet again unbalanced as it has been in the past. Keep up the good work Ibn.

DracheDesAngst

03-01-2005, 06:57 AM

I'm not sure I see how different this is than when we introduced resistance rending imbues. If you wanted a full set of resistance rends, you needed a full set of missile weapons or casters.

Ibn, no disrespect, but you guys at turbine are missing the concept. Firstly, you have guys running around with 400+ hit points and mages doing 120 pts of damage if we're lucky enough (hope of hopes) to actually hit someone. Now, how in the name of god are we suppose to hit someone 4 times in a row and hope they dont heal. What they need is to passout at the keyboard from laughter.

You might think this is a dig, but everyone on Darktide is aware that the changes over the last two years have only shrunk the population, destroyed the mage as an effective class and created parties of hollowers.

From the aspect of a real-time coder the game demonstrates a low degree of understanding of that concept. The developers are too graphics oriented and not taking timing into effect. We still have the same old bugs and nothing has been done in that area.

IMHO all characters need a chance of super-criticals and mages need a complete revamp of the ridiculous targetting engine. Whoever wrote that piece of junk needs to go back to work for Microsoft, where they can cause more harm than good.

Every character have the possibility of escape. Melees simply run, whereas mages do not have that opportunity. When are we going to get a limited teleport or blink spell. Never, I don't even believe you guys at turbine are aware of the inequity.

Here's a better joke.. Most of us have found a way to gear and not get detected I showed this to an admin and god did he get bent out of shape. All he could say was don't run it or you'll get banned, but demonstrating the exploit was missed from his point of view. Of course, nothing has been done and nothing will be done.

You why don't you just give melees complete auto-kill, where if they show up on the radar every mage just auto-magically dies. It might just save us all more time.

By the way, who actually thinks up these silly game ruining ideas? We want a name so to complain directly.

Drache

uvula

03-01-2005, 03:13 PM

asdasdfasdfasdf :mad:

kublikhan

03-01-2005, 04:01 PM

Hiya Anming, it is Kubli Khan. I found that like finding 300 wield weapons in 80+ or withered is impossible, you have to go looking for the no war req casters in mid level content area.

The old style orbs are just not showing up in the new high level loot. Wish it would though.

Kubli Khan

DwynnsPlace

03-01-2005, 04:16 PM

Too many people want every
character to be even, balanced, and be able to do the same or similar
damage, as the next toon!

Only the warriors need to have the weapons base damage adjusted upwards,

I agree that the minimum base damage of the new 370 or 400 weapons need
to ecceed the minimum of the 350 or 325 weapons.

Why use a 370 or 400 sword if a 325 does the same??

New armor and or shields that may be comming out
should have a Melee Def SPECIALIZATION req to use and High end swords
should have SWORD SPECIALIZATION to wield!

This would prevent mages from functioning as
sword/warriors. Also help distinguish warriors from Mages.

Another idea is to allow mages to wear certain armors but, the armor would
reduce their spell casting abilitie by 40 or 50 points each mage catagory.
This would be a deterant for some mages to wear the armor warriors should
wear, also, If someone had
Melee def spec and sword spec they could gain a benefit from the armor,
Like SHIELD SPECIALIZATION????
:eek:

Just a couple ideas!

Warriors should rule the battlefield, Infantry is the Queen of Battle! :cool:

Old Soldier!

kublikhan

03-01-2005, 04:16 PM

I am surprised at the degree of griping.

I love Asheron's Call and the only complaint I ever had was with the event where the water turned to Blood, years ago, it looked so ugly.

Asheron's call is a changing world and our toons can be modified every so often by using temple of forgetfullness or specialization. You can't expect the game to be played exactly as you like it so modify your characters.

The new higher wield req weapons are awesome. I can do 1,150 damage to the withered lugians with a critical hit on sword with base 400. I am excited about AC and about the up coming expansion.

Keep up the good work Turbine.

Kubli Khan, Chosen of Verdantine

DwynnsPlace

03-01-2005, 04:32 PM

It's good to see mages suffering at the hands of Warriors, see gammers adapt and warriors do too.

A good warrior will read the capabilities of his or her opponant and then adapt to terminate that opponant with extream prejudice!

That is what has obviously happened in the affore mentioned encounter and the servers warrior caste has made it an art form! Hurrah! to the warriors!

Now mages, Adapt or become obsolete!

FYI!

I hate playing DT.

Why: Because 126+ level toons killing 1st through 10th level toons is just plain stupid!

A Player Can't log in without getting killed.

I think DT needs to have the areas for about 3 clicks from the training halls
PK restricted! Gives a safe haven for those low levels just trying to get
on the server!

More to come later!

T Dubya

03-01-2005, 05:05 PM

Hmm, well i was actually excited when i heard the news but am now the owner of a c5 +10 monster damage Bludge rend that doesn't do any better than my old caster. so i spit on the "uber" damage mods. in any case i have a better idea for you guys. how bout added ATTack,Melee, Mana C, Missle D, Mag D bonus's? these would make the high wields more valueable than the extra 10 points of damage ever 300..whoohoo. i seriously think you guys need some new blood on yer creative team because you have completely jacked the trade, economy for a *crap* addition to the game. how bout this. make quest weapons people will use. make quest armor people will use. i'm not sure if you noticed but as of now people use 10 tinked armor and rends because everything you add are only good to put on the wall of my villa.

Xeneises

03-08-2005, 09:14 AM

Every weapon upgrade you introduce makes every creature and every quest a joke. So... you need to come up with new creatures to bring back the "challenge" or upgrade the existing ones, and then you need six or seven patches to balance everything you changed again.

If you would understand that one of the main attractions in every game (and life in general) is the challenge it brings, maybe you would think twice before doing this every now and then.

PS: if having to work on a whole set of new weapons every once in a while is a "new challenge", you should just make weapons breakable after quite a while and save all the debalance and rebalance.

DwynnsPlace

03-09-2005, 11:43 AM

If you do make weapons defective and breakable, which is not wholely a bad idea (And I love my Melee gimp), Make them repairable with one of the base metal salvage.

As for the challenge of the game, My suggestion is for 126+ toons PLAYERS to go back and try to develope a new toon without the help of the older toon and his or her junk collections from hunts in High level dungeons.

I still hold tight to the memories of playing without buff bots and without a high level dropping his junk to arm and equip the low level.

The challenge is there, the player needs to think of new ways to challenge themselves. Try hunting places with just a weapon without armor.

Try going to a dungeon with tons of stam and healing and see how long you can stay alive without fighting back.

Lots of wild ideas for challenging a toon.

More later..... :p

ArtilexOfDarkti

03-09-2005, 07:49 PM

Areas on Darktide restricted to PKing? I must remind you... reading the statement when you log in. Be prepared for a harsh existence! You were warned, and you are being given what they warned you, you have to build up your strength to getting killed because it will be happening for a long time if you just don't take the beating and level up.

DwynnsPlace

03-10-2005, 09:45 AM

Yea and another Griever speeks his or her mind!
Go figure!

People ever wonder why there are so few players on DT?

If you never give em a chance to develope they will not play there.

Give areas protected and patrolled by the guards of the High court a reason for players to go there and train! Thats what the areas are for.

What Garrison commander would tollerate His recruits getting killed on his doorstep! Not a one!

A higher level garrison for training to specialization in a weapon or skill needs to be developed so that we can make a new skill like Shield skill. This would be Similar to sword in that the shield user gets bonuses when defending himself or if on full defence, (defending another), like an ancient shield bearer of the roman empire.

Full defence or Shield defence; which would be used to defend the line or another player, would prevent the shield player from attacking but could double the that defender's shield and or armor rating while on full defence, this could cost twice as much stamina but....

Only makes sence that the training halls and the direct areas arround the halls are safe from PK, even in DT!

Take it or leave it, its just an idea and, if you don't like it, you really need to think your playing stratagy!

Tanoshi

03-11-2005, 05:02 PM

I think that the melee weapons should provide approximately the same damage over a certain time as do the new mage scepters.

The damage that the rending weapons is still very much skewed to magic users and moreso now with the 310 scepters.

With a 350ish wield sword or spear, it will still take my level 120 sword/spear several minutes to bring down a monter that my level 80 mage can take down in a few little spells... (I built the mage to pay for villa(s) rent, and support my wife's spear character)

When hunting solo, why can't I take my sword character out without having to imperil and vuln high level critters... my melee is nearly maxed, my sword is nearly maxed (close to 400 base.....), are there plans for any new swords / spears / axes that are ever going to close this gap with mages? Heck, they don't even have to use life magic anymore with the new scepters, except to buff.