fastcasting

[Hubbell]

Ibn please respond to my thread if there are plans to remove delay/fast casting animation breakwise. I'd like to know so I can decide to cancel my subscription or not because they are the only things that make mage PK fun.

[Virindi Clown]

Hubbell "fast cast" is the result of the real fixed fast cast. I don't think they could feasibly fix it if they wanted, don't worry =)

[Hubbell]

Back in the day of real fastcast I pm'ed srand a fix for fast casting ENTIRELY without thinking of spelltimings, and it *is* feasible she said but not worth the time atm...

Every spell has a single animation, combine the core animation with the talisman so there is no break in the animation therefore killing all animation breaks :/ I feel so stupid for telling her that hehe

[TerrorScout]

I would like to know how to use the "special" moves for each character type.

[TheWitchKing]

it's an easy bug, have /die typed in on an outpost gimp and just kill yourself as soon as you see the killshot

[Ibn]

We don't have any immediate plans to change the current "fast" casting. There are other issues that are higher priority at the moment, such as resolving the jumpspin issue.

[TheeAngryOne]

Why get rid of fastcasting? Its the only thing that keeps mage pk fun. Oh you want fastcast gone because 1) you cant do it or 2) you are getting your *** handed to you on a plate by people who fastcast well? Those are the 2 main reasons why people complain about fastcasting.

[Hubbell]

We don't have any immediate plans to change the current "fast" casting. There are other issues that are higher priority at the moment, such as resolving the jumpspin issue.


Why is it even a priority at all? I cannot fastcast myself that well past 2 wars, so my entire Pk strategy revolves around normally/slightly delaying arcs/bolts until 1 hits my opponent, then delay casting for as long as is necessary from that point on until my opponent fires multiple wars at me, realizes he won't hit me and I am not casting, then runs in to attack at close range. Release the war, fastcast a bolt or 2, delay a streak if necessary, done.

[Chubasco]

1) you cant do it or 2) you are getting your *** handed to you on a plate by people who fastcast well? Those are the 2 main reasons why people complain about fastcasting.

Nope. In my opinion the main problem with them is as stated before...

If Turbine has taken these exploits into account when "balancing" the game then the implication is that they EXPECT them to be used in order for the class to be competitive versus other classes.

And the necessity to use them will be even moreso if and when they fix jump spin.

[Spoiled]

Originally posted by Ibn
We don't have any immediate plans to change the current "fast" casting. There are other issues that are higher priority at the moment, such as resolving the jumpspin issue.

jump spin removed? then fix it so a melee cant break off when im casting a spell...


if my mage ass is getting handed to me by a swordsman i should be able to jump spin and haul ass just like if i hit a melee he can haul ass or hide behind a tree... you know what the difference is? I cant attack on the move and he doesnt lose stamina when he runs away...

[Frank The Knife]

If they fixed it right the first time we wouldnt be having posts like this.

Same with the band-aid jump spin fix.

[Hubbell]

You are right Frank, there wouldn't be posts like this because every single person who PK's on a mage ( READ: Who plays ONLY FOR PVP) would have quit because fast/delay cast are the only skills left to mage pk.

[Mage_of_Dereth]

and also establishing a dodge with these 2 things. with no template trying to just fc all day isnt gonna get u very far especially if the person u are fighting knows how to dodge and knows how to tell its coming early

[TheeAngryOne]

Yeah sliding back and forth, praying your opponent lags and you get a lucky hit sounds fun.....

[Ivanhoe]

leave it in
then reduce all war spells by 35%.



sounds good to me.

[TheeAngryOne]

They added weeping weapons. Get rid of them and it will be ok.

[Rojon]

Originally posted by Ibn
We don't have any immediate plans to change the current "fast" casting. There are other issues that are higher priority at the moment, such as resolving the jumpspin issue.
Ibn, please clarify that.

First though, make sure you have your asbestos underwear on.

Ok, ready?

Are you saying Turbine has no plans to change the current "fast" casting because:

A) Its not feasible with the current engine because changing it would break too many player-beneficial animations unrelated to PvP.

B) Turbine feels "fast" casting is an integral part of the current PvP environment and wouldn't fix it if it were possible because too many PK players enjoy using it for PvP.

C) Turbine hasn't come to a conclusion on whether fast-casting is good or bad for PvP balance in AC and is going to wait until that official "PvP blueprint" for the future is codified to take any action.

D) Turbine doesn't feel "fixing" fast-casting is as important as other animation breaking issues like the aforementioned jump-spin?

E) Some other reason or combination of the above which you will no doubt express in a much more logical, detailed and professional manner.

:)

[Rojon]

Double post

[Vehementi]

D, obviously. Reading is gud.

[TheeAngryOne]

Get rid of aegis too then. But I dont know I am just talking atm :D

[CouchAttack]

aegis should go regaurdless :/

[TheeAngryOne]

Yeah.

[Ibn]

Originally posted by Spoiled
jump spin removed? then fix it so a melee cant break off when im casting a spell...

Any fix to jump spin would make sure that there was still SOME way to get away from a sticky melee.

[Spike Lady]

How is it, as an archer, I can be locked up by mages?

How is it, as an archer, I can shoot 3 (count them) 3 arrows in succession when I have repeat-attack OFF!

How is it that mages and melees can attack while moving, yet archers can not.


I think what a lot of fastcasters do not realize is that they are breaking the game for other people.

It's an animation hack and by causing the server to keep track of both spell and player movement, you effectively lag the other people who are in your area.

I'm not saying fastcasting is completely wrong, but that it has a negative effect on other people.


There are several things that should be changed to balance things out.

Mages should not have their animation broken when targets swing around behind them. (notice that I'm in favor of this)

Archers should be able to hit their target more frequently. Make the accuracy bar mean something. Machine gun mode should miss alot. But if you can not hit a target that is jackrabbiting around WHILE casting a spell, that is just wrong. If they want to jackrabbit, then yes, an archer should miss, but they should NOT be able to ALSO cast a spell.

Melees should NOT be able to skate behind someone and swing away. Sticky should be eliminated. Also, there should be a longer delay for melees to be able to break away and run. Now, looking at the first point above, then this would be less important.


The biggest thing should be that if you want to do one action, you can not do a second SIMULTANEOUS action. If you want to avoid getting hit, move. If you want to cast your spell, AND you move, then your spell gets broken. This would also go along with shortening casting times. Since it takes so long for a mage to do a spell, it would be wise to make it a 2 second cast time..BUT..if they move, they break the spell. By move, is move laterally or other...Spinning to hit that target that skated behind you, would still get hit.


I'm sure there are alot of people who both agree and disagree with me. either way... For those of you who disagree, I'd like you to come up with a way to balance all 3 classes in PvP.

These are just my opinions on the issues. There also may be some information that I missed...That's fine..I encourage conversation....not flames.

[Ibn]

Originally posted by Rojon
Ibn, please clarify that.

Essentially there are two fixes to fastcasting.

1) Create an entirely new animation system for AC1. This is for all intents and purposes impossible.

2) Lock everyone's feet to the ground so they can't move AT ALL while casting or shooting or charging up for a swing. I don't think anyone really wants this, especially after reading that feedback thread that I posted.

Now, there MAY BE a third possible fix for it, but resources spent looking for one would seem to be better spent elsewhere.

[Kool-Mage]

If Turbine takes out Fast/Delay Casting for mages.... They better put something in to balance out the after effect like:
1. Level 7 Ring Spells... hard for a close combat melee to dodge.
2. Heat Seeking Wars for Melee's who hide behind tree's
or.
3. Stronger banes.
Cause as it sits right now... Most 100+ Sword guys can kill me in 5 or less hits with full banes on. Sword and Bow are very powerful now that they have weeping weapons. The only way for a mage to survive agianst these hard hitting weapons is by suprizing them with a delay or a fast cast making them hide and heal while the mage heals. In my opinion... the PvP ratio is pretty much balanced out right now. If you left it alone everything would be fine. Mages hit hard but they cast extremely slow. Sword guys can swing faster then a mage can cast and hide. In my opinion I say leave it alone and let other people complain all they want. Sword guys have hit me for 150+ through banes before and they have magic d reducing shield. So they get hit for 90 - 200 depending on how high there magic d is. So if you are a melee and you are worried about getting casted on get the shield. We have to deal with your 150+ crits and your shields blocking wars so deal with our high level wars and change up casting to save ourselves from dieing. ;)

[Rojon]

Originally posted by Ibn
Now, there MAY BE a third possible fix for it, but resources spent looking for one would seem to be better spent elsewhere.
Well, I appreciate the candor.

I look forward to the "what DON'T you like about PvP thread.

[CouchAttack]

Rojon, with you and Hext around, its bound to be interesting

[Virindi Clown]

Ibn there is a third way to fix it. You can remove fast cast as it is and the casting radius and allow REAL fast cast and god mode back in. I'm sure that would just work great.

If you ask DT, the majority of people will WANT fast and delay cast to stay. They won't be indifferent, they won't be against it. They will be FOR it.

People who are against it here are not asking anyone. They are just a few people saying it should be changed without regard to anyone else. You don't just get what you want for the heck of it. Not saying that mean or anything, it just won't happen here.

Now, if the majority wants it to stay, it fixes REAL problems by being there, it hardly affects the game (especially since we're all obviously aware of it, complaining or not), it would take a lot of time (therefore our money and other things that otherwise would have been put int othe game) to even begin to figure out a way to fix it, and there are other problems with MUCH higher priorities, why even bother THINKING about it?

[Spike Lady]

Let's have a poll of how many type of toons there are in PvP these days.

My guess is it's like this:

Archer: 10%
Melee: 20%
Mage: 70%

Why is it that the majority of ALL PvP toons are mages? Beause they are the only one with all the benefits.

I'm not saying mages are bad..but if you want balance, there should be approx 33% each class.

But there isn't.

[Paraduck]

Spike Lady, the problem with that is that character templates are heavily influenced by the player's playstyle. Some people might have started as an archer and like playing one, so they won't switch over to a more viable template (melee or mage.)

[Virindi Clown]

Mages have the most freedom of style and versatility, and ALWAYS have. That is why they have always been the best.

If mages were stuck to the ground, they would probably be the WORST characters.

The thing to do is give archers and melees better movement. Archers should atleast be able to strafe and fire, and breaking off from attacking someone like you do so much against a mage shouldn't mess up sticky so often and so badly. You can lock up and only be able to run around until you jump, get slammed back into the mage and be hit by the war, get stuck on objects, or get lagged up by people who should have their names changed to Captain Infinite Spin Jump.

[TheeAngryOne]

If mages could no longer slide, there would be no more DT nor pk on white worlds because everuone would quit.

[Virindi Clown]

We all agree that it makes mages more fun, and that it is where their advantage comes from. It is exactly what archers and melees lack, but should be allowed.

[Hubbell]

There are more mages because they are the most fun to play as well as the easiest to macro.

[Rojon]

Originally posted by CouchAttack
Rojon, with you and Hext around, its bound to be interesting
I could be wrong but I don't believe Mike has much experience at PvP.

[Rojon]

Originally posted by Hubbell
There are more mages because they are the most fun to play as well as the easiest to macro.
Actually, archers are the easiest to macro but either way its off-topic here...

[TheeAngryOne]

I could be wrong but I don't believe Mike has much experience at PvP.

Mike says alot of stuff and 80% of what he says is incorrect. I believe this is one of them.

[MannyCalavera]

Is it possible to limit movement to only strafing (side to side) and not allowing a char to move forward or backward? Wouldn't this pretty much fix the animation break, since moving forward is the main thing that causes the break?

[Genji-Glove]

Limiting movement on mages isn't needed.

Maybe giving archers some more movement woult help them out a bit, but i think archers main problem is not being able to hit others.

Increase the area where arrows hit by a tiny bit and archers would be fixed that easy.

[Dark_Rocx]

I think that the movement for all casting should be left alone and leave jump spin in or get rid of sticky mages need a way to get away from melee's. Archers definatley need some sort or pvp love they can barely do anything now a days against mages or melees. I know I would quit and I know several others that would also if they changed the movement on casting.

[wintergale]

Isnt fast cast, slide cast jump all over the screen jump up in the air do 360s cast a spell every 2 seconds etc. unintended content of the game and hence exploiting the UNINTENDED CONTENT of the game? Is this "skill"? If you think it is skill all you are is the person that noone let be the banker at monopoly. And the people complaining about a fix are the ones that are best at this CHEAT. These "skills" were never intended and it took cheaters to figure out how to cheat the game 'cause they cant handle how the game was meant to be played.

FIX IT.

PS: I am quiting if it isnt fixed so there !!!

[CouchAttack]

whenever im the banker i steal money from the bank

while i fast cast away shooting my wars at the old security gaurds

[Kool-Mage]

I am going to go ahead and disagree on the fact of saying 70 percent of DT is mages. Cause it's not. It's more like:
10% archers
45% melees
45% mages

Saying that 70% is mages is on the server is wrong cause Die mostly to melee's on the game. And i am a mage, but if half the people I fight are melee's and the other are mages....then i would have to say 70% isn't all mages.

And I still stick my my opinion saying the server is already balanced. People just get pissed off if they are a melee and die to a mage cause i know.... I am a mage and die to melee's alot even though I am baned. I still think it's balanced now though cause then it just makes you rely on who has the better pvp skills. As long as the melee your fighting isn't 1 or 2 hitting you baned then I don't have a problem with them hitting that hard.

[Lutieus]

Mage vs. melee is pretty balanced. Archers get the shaft.