Coming changes to weeping weapons...

[Yew Wan Sum]

According to the letter to the players, weeping weapons will now be able to be *debuffed*, but not buffed except by its built in spells.


How will this change things? Opinions?

If anyone can debuff someone elses weeping, then will hollow weapons again become popular?

Will all those whining on the other thread about 'just get a weeping' and forget hollow(or anything else) now go out and cry 'get a hollow and forget weeping' or will they start wanting hollows to be buffed? I sure hope they don't actually want weeping weapons to be *fixed*(if they become less desireable) any more than they wanted hollows to be fixed...

However it plays out, its sure to stir things up. I'll wait and see what effect it has in reality before proclaiming doom and gloom, but what do you think of this change and what effects will it have?


One problem I have (Ibn, this is for you to address), is:

Why is it that melee and missle damage can be reduced through a debuff, but you do not allow a weeping wand to have its effect reduced as well?

hmm?

[HeXt]

The only thing i see this does is make it so mages have their debuff plugin catch the weapon upon sight and it gets debuffed...

[AzulDrakkon]

Stop and desist!

Archers again get nailed by the mages who forgot to bane, and began to cry foul. Melees are the "overpowered" ones at the moment, nerf them...I'm tired of the backwash making missile characters more and more obsolete every patch, its not enough that a 10/10 starting coord/quick mage with trained missile can get it to level where an archer needs a half bar to hit them with their inaccurate, heavy, nerfed weepings.

Seriously guys, think for a second, most melees are like mine and have multiple weepings, and it really doesn't hurt them because they can put it away much quicker than an archer due the fact the melees can actualy attack on speed and hit their targets, and the fact that swift killer actually does affect their weapon. If it gets debuffed time to pull out another!

Archers on the other hand have low strength, and arrows are 2500 burden a 250-pack, which already puts us far over any other classes necessary burden:str ratio the next heaviest class is mace, but not even close to what archers have to deal with...so are you seriously asking archers to carry multiple weepings and train fletching or start out with 100 strength or something ridiculous that we don't need at all, but have to get because someone keeps overlooking us over there?

Weepings in general though, wands hit me for 200s...no shards, and no aegis...so yeah, ouch...even on my grief ua I get hit for 130 to 200+ on crits. Melees hit my tank archer for 15s through my 10x on speed, and another archer will often not hit me until half bar, because I have missile defense and 100/100 crd/qck (but at least I have 100/100 instead of the lame 10/10 who evades us in general), but when they do its often for 30s...never 100+ on crits like some have claimed...and its not for lack of trying or skill; I've been shot by storm seeker, bundle of joy, tibow, etc.,

I can get hit for over half my health points,but mages can delay cast, fast cast, make insanely long slide casts, and even if I'm lucky enough to make a running mage lose all his stamina they can kneel slide and keep on trucking...all my archer can do with his bow is dodge wars, and hit the eviroment and pray they are in a straight line, with no debris in the path and not elevated higher or lower, because I already know I'm never gonna hit em.

I have many more points but this should be sufficient enoough for you guys to at least reconsider what you're going to do to archers.

[Paraduck]

Well said, Azul. :) I disagree somewhat on the melee debuff part, but you do have a point. If damage is a concern, I'd perfer a small damage nerf than making them debuffable. I'm not even sure why they raised the human slayer mod on all of the melee weapons recently.

[AzulDrakkon]

I'm a big baby :p

I don't really think melees should be nerfed much (maybe brought back to a little more than prepatch?)...I play all classes, I enjoy my archer but its getting rough for him, even with good dodging skills.

[MomentofClarity]

/e sighs

[Virindi Clown]

OMFG they can't be debuffable! YOU CAN'T DEBUFF A MAGE'S DAMAGE OFF THEIR WAND!!! That's completely unfair!

It's balanced the way it is, everyone would see if ARCHERS WERE MADE VIABLE CHARACTERS!

Then it would go three ways instead of from melees to mages. It does not mix up AT ALL atm so that is where the problem comes from.

[Kieoto]

What to do about Weeping weepings being debuffed.


Have more than one! You already have the heart, just get another DIamond, they took the skill req to make the Ispartian off, so just carry around another one, big deal for the hardcore PKers that didn't even drop anything when they died (before PKL) since they have all that pack space, heck fill a pack with Weeping UAs, or whatever your flavor might be. It's not going to matter.

[Paraduck]

That's not really feasible with the pack space (and time) limitations...

[AzulDrakkon]

Exactly my point, archers can't carry a full pack of bows...well, we could, the results wouldn't be pretty though

[Kieoto]

True.. between arrows, items, and bows, the weight is ridiculous, and all in all just stupid. even if they lowed the BU of bow, having a bunch of weapons is just getting around it to the point that it shouldn't even exsist.

[AzulDrakkon]

I really don't like to complain, but ever since they nerfed missile weepings slowly they've been adding things to balance mage/melee but they keep smacking archers in the head

EXAMPLE:
I was one of those archers who was sitting there...ok I got one-shot by the supermage, not to worry, next patch we'll get a bit more balance, ok they removed jumpspin, no worries, at least I have a couple tricks up my sleeve (10x amuli that looked like GSA and a GSC pierce/slash top...needless tho say they attacked low and I often won the fights). then they buffed em, I figured thats fine, I just gotta be more careful around melees

once I recalled to AL the next patch got one hit by a weeping...scrolled up and read

"You are incinerated by Fire Princess's assault!" !!!

crud, I'll just bane everything again, small price to pay to put mages in their place ;) ( I also dumped my sharded and yanked out the full 10x)

so now its come to nerfing the archer again, but ??"unintentionally"??

Starting to wonder if Turbine hates archers :)

[Kieoto]

I don't think anyone at Turbine plays as an Archer :p

[Ivanhoe]

Yes archers are at the bottom of the chain for pvp

But mages are number1 (as usual)

Adding in debuffs for weeping only gives mages more of an advantage in pvp. And surpise suprise mages dont need anymore advantages in pvp .

[Extinction]

Originally posted by Ivanhoe
Adding in debuffs for weeping only gives mages more of an advantage in pvp. And surpise suprise mages dont need anymore advantages in pvp .

Mage advantages:
1. High damage war spells - when they hit
2. No need to change in and out of different combat modes

Yeah, I can't think of any else..

Melee advantages:
1. Moderate to High damage, undodgeable, melee attacks
2. Super magic protection Aegis.
3. Targets cannot escape all the time
4. Relativley simple game play
5. Less money spent on spell comps

I could think of more if I wasn't so tired..

[smaweet]

It's completely fair.

Sorry, but take a look at what you have...

Melees can get their damage taken GREATLY reduced with a template change and a few items.

Pump exp into endurance, focus, and magic defense and you will see low level mages not be able to land on you plus a great damage reduction done by the high levels. Melees don't have to debuff everytime or work on things, simply use the aegis shield and use a template that works. Missile is shield hollow anyways, they aren't losing anything anymore.

Archers, yes they get it bad. They can't lower damage much at all. All archers can do is be very skilled and move around a lot. Plus raise their coord and tank skills to be able to handle melees.

Yew, melees have ways of lowering damage and archers can always be quick and keep a distance. Although archers don't have it good, both classes have ways of reducing damage, and it is just balance to let a mage do that. Wearing tinkered armor isn't that much of help, especially for all the time and risk you put into it.

Melees really just needed a little lowering in damage so they weren't so very overpowered in groups, and it owuld be nice if non-magic characters (melee spec?) might be able to have their own benefits. However, it is perfectly fine how it is right now, and this nerf to melees isn't like things that melees have that are constant effects, they are just things a mage can do if time permits. Time is everything in PK

[scorcher]

yes well i do see alot of nice opinions here on many different topics, some are ridiculous, some are not.
i dont feel like going into detail on what my opinions are, but alot of facts i see are touched right above this post.

you did forget one, and it always seems to go overlooked by people other than mages!

war costs a heck of a lot more than any other class, mages generally have this, its twice as much as any other weapon out there.
so yea, mages should be more powerful hands down.

this archer > mage or melee > mage just does not make sense with the skill credit costs, think about it.