Ibn please read this about the PvP.

[Nya13]

*** EDITED *** Better to understand my point of view

Hello!!!

According to me to have a good PvP balance.
You should :

1) Bring back the god mod (mage can cast/run)

2) decrease the damage War spells a little (like 6.5)

add :

- Stamina malus on Spin jump, is fine
- Fix the Jump/Potion exploit
- Weaping Weapons are buffable, is fine
- Fast cast/Delay cast... are fine coz it's give fun & need "skill" to use it
- Maybe you should decrease the Weaping Sword damages a little

IS THERE A FREE TRIAL AC1 actually?
I lost my account and looking for a new one to play.

[Ivanhoe]

Ebay use to have New copies of AC for sale .
Its very hard to find the game here in the USA too.
With a new expansion pack coming soon (6months?)
I would expect AC to be showing up in USA stores soon.

[TheeAngryOne]

Originally posted by Nya13
Hello guy(s)!!!

According to me to have a good balance and fun PvP
You should
1) fix all the exploits (fast cast/delay...) used by the mages. => (have to find a new cast for mages in need)
2) Bring back the god mod (mage can cast/run)
3) decrease the damage war spells

And Class will be balanced.




(no)

1) Why find a new cast when we can just keep the current ones?
2) Why get rid of fastcasting and slidecasting and then bring godmode? That doesnt make sense.
3) With the aegis shield, this idea is a joke because mages will hit for like 80-110 or less on a regular hit. How about we dont?

Class will not be balanced. This class will be a wreck LOL.

[Nya13]

Decrease the damage War Spells
Bring back God mod ( no need to fix Fast cast/Delay Cast... then)

1) Mage hit very hard (high damage)+ Fast cast/Delay Cast = Too Powered
=> Thats why you need to decrease the damage War Spells (damage should be = Melee's damage or archer's damage)

2) Bring back the God mod ( Mages can Run/Cast/fight )

Like all Class (Archers/Melees).


I known i am right.
For playing a lot pvp game in past and played AC since 1999.

[Nya13]

*** EDITED ***

[Ifuritah]

?1) fix all the exploits (fast cast/delay...) used by the mages. => (have to find a new cast for mages in need)
2) Bring back the god mod (mage can cast/run)
3) decrease the damage war spells

What ARE you talking about?

That would totally unbalance the game... mages hit hard because it takes them like 1.5 times as long to make an attack as it does a melee/archer. Unless your using al 600 tinked armor (likely using sharded gsx like everyone else on DT) your gona get whacked for 70-130 damage by a swordsman with WW. They hit faster, a Melee with an aegis gets hit by a level 7 war for 85-200 damage per shot and then you gota wind up that spell again, the only thing that makes you able to hit them is that its difficult to tell when your going to let go of that bolt. In the mean time they run circles around you until you do let go of it an hit/miss, then if ya miss they move in an spank your butt till its black and blue. An if ya hit, they run behind a tree and heal.
The only one whos needs some changes are archers IMO.
(how about an aegis attachment to their bow or something?)

Ifuritah - 114 Grief BM: DT
Sheilanda - 71 Sword/Life: DT


IS THERE A FREE TRIAL AC1 actually?
I lost my account and looking for a new one to play
Nowhere to buy the game atm (I live in FRANCE)


Just curious here, when was the last time you played on DT

[Nya13]

*** EDITED ***

[Ifuritah]

Still no answer on my question.


When was the last time you played on DT?

[Nya13]

*** EDITED ***

[Ifuritah]

Yes, AC1...when was the last time you PvP'd on DT?

[Edit]
NM, mis-communication, I read that wrong. :)


So you want run cast back in, and lower mage damage?
That would destroy any PvM in the game at the moment.
Mages would be near worthless in a PvM situation as the game is right now.

I got an idea for you, just so it will be fair when you fight melees...

USE ONLY LEVEL 5 SPELLS!

From now on in a fight, if your fighting a melee or an archer, you should only allow yourself to use level 4-5 spells. See how well you do. ;)

[CouchAttack]

you seem to be forgetting about this whole element call dodging.

[Ifuritah]

LOL

[Nya13]

*** EDITED ***

[Ifuritah]

Level 5's just so you have an idea of what your asking them to do. ;) Cuz thats sounds like what your asking.

[-Nosferatu-]

sword needs to be degraded a little and archers up a little and were fine.

[Frank The Knife]

Just make the weeping melee weapons not able to be debuffed and it will rock again!

Loather = teh suq =/

[Nya13]

Damn YOU!!! ;)

Stop the requests to increase your chars in game.
we are trying to find a way to bring a perfect PvP balance on AC.

[-Nosferatu-]

swords and other melees downgraded a tad, swords a little more than a tad and archer given to ability to get a kill would perfect it

[Nya13]

Finally if we can't bring back God Mod (Run/Cast) for mages + Decreasing their War Spells damages Then don't change anything at all. :cool:

PvP balance is good atm.

In the Past 90% were mages in game.
Glad to see melees are back in game.

(If you ll decrease sword damages, remove the ability to buff/unbuff weepings weapons).

[Ayatollah]

Originally posted by Nya13

we are trying to find a way to bring a perfect PvP balance on AC.


LOL whose we? This idea will not perfect balance. (That's enough.)

[Paraduck]

Perfect balance is impossible, IMO. We can get close... and I agree we're the closest we've been in a long time.

[Ros]

I agree with Ayatolla.

sorry, I've been here since beta.

Banes were too Strong == Hollows, and Phantoms.
Hollows and Phantoms weren't the answer.

Mages, "We need new spells!!!" == level 7 Spells
Level 7 spells sure as hell weren't the answer.

Archers, "Bow sucks against shields!" == Shendolain Bows.
Shendolain weapons/shields weren't the Answer

Greater Shadow Armor sure as hell wasn't the answer.

Archers & Melees, "wth were you thinking giving uber al to mages!! now with banes we can't do jack to them!!!!"
-they nerfed it a bit, which made it a *little* better, but then they brought it all back up. because they didn't "Retroactively change former Pre-patch GSx")

"Drain 1 is the most irritating thing in the World in PVP!!"

Turbine Nerfs Drains - making the old "Lifemage" Template un-feasable. Stormwaltz did some Research in discussion with players to make the "New" Templates currently available.

Archers, and Melees "Banes are still waay too strong for us to be able to damage through GSx"

They set a Bane-Cap on Banes to 2.0 - to prevent the damage-voiding effect of Layering undergarments with Armor.

Helped some. Melee's were still to weak, but at least they could cause *some* damage now.

"With High AL GSx - the hollow weapon is usueless now!!"
Archers, "Jeeez at least you *have* a hollow!"

They made "Deadly Hollow Weapons.", and "Phantom Bows, Hollow Bows.", and Chorozite Arrows.

Archers, Melees "Bah! it still sucks!! I seldom crit fighting mages, and NEVER crit when fighting Melees - our damage can't compare to the Average damage of a War spell!"

They made "Weeping Weapons" that ignore shields - provide the effective rating of Level 8 Spells, and make them unbuffable.

Mages who are too retarded to realize that turning your back on a Melee is a free ticket to the Lifestone, "Swords hit too hard!!"

Weeping Weapons, aren't a REAL answer either, anyway. What is the point of all the loot gen'd Gear anymore for PVP? Does it seem to make sense they have to make a different set of things for PVP then PVM??


Now lets look at why these things were added again...

Most of them - all directly pointing to Banes.

Why?

Because Warmagic is NOT effected my Banes, but Melee's and Archers ARE. There *was* no mechanism that could be used to cast Lures on an opponents worn armor - So things like "Hollows" and "Phantoms" and "Weepings" became the "Alternatives".

The Shield nulling effect proved useful in many instances Melee vs Archer, which created "Shield Hollow Monsters" and "Weeping weapons" - when it came to "adding new content."

Restoring Drains to their former glory - maintaining the Ranges they have currently would be good.

Making opponents worn armor debuffable via new in-game mechanic for "debuffing/buffing" armed opponents armed Weapons and Shields. (Targetting those were never an issue on Darktide anyway - and was actually a contributing factor to "Player Skill" - UA's were the hardest to target on the move.) If you wish to allow it, just say so - Decal provides methods for this, but due to concern of what the Dev's thought about it - many "hitches" were added to their apps (effectively limiting its use to PVM) - If the Dev's would have participated in the DecalDev's discussion on this, it would have cleared the air.

The above paragraph provides a way that even the "Loot gen'd" weapons would become useful, in-game.

Melee's Shields - as demonstrated by Weeping bows, and Phantom weapons - is for all purposes, "Fundamentally Broken"
Their SOLE purpose being against Archers. (We like to keep the man down!!)

This is plausable to the "Food-chain" approach to balance - which I would argue is a lame way to go about "balance" But removing the "Player skill" factor is lame too. (Because you're an Archer you should automatically die to a melee, I don't care how *good* you are. -- yah.. lame..)

Velocity should be a "Tinker" for Wands, and Range-weapons.

It was one of the ONLY things that made the ORIGINAL Lilitha's bow *different* from other bows.

It was nicknamed "The Dungeon bow" because it shot "straighter" in that the apex of the Arrow's Arc was Lower then most bows - and its range was longer making it differ from other Shortbows.

I seriously think the Dev's neglected that detail in Archery, in-general. Such an imbue would be useful for any Ranged weapon, though - and could complicate the "Art of dodging" in PVP for those that claim its all too easy anyway.

Streaks being less-costly Manawise - should probably have some of its "consumption" in Stamina for Speed. Mana Management is the only "complicating" factor for playing a Mage.

Killing on Mages hasn't ever been a problem.

There is a problem these days in that the use of Drains and Harms became Taboo because of their historical imbalances - it would just seem to me, that those complaining that mages are weak aren't really using their mage like they should.

Drains are as-such, that someone has to be very nearly in your face for Drain 1, making the minimum drain for speed with fair range a level 3.

One can easily drain their Stam, and make them slow as well...they can't dodge under such duress.

AS-IS

Archers are doing more damage to my mages then the Melees are on-average... and thats only when I'm not being sassy with them on my "dancing". -- I'd advise putting some priority on the Velocity of Arrows - likewise to Warspells..it would also be nice if our volleys, blasts, and Walls didn't suck so bad in their speed-aspect either.

Balance does not equate to Another Weapon addressing a "specific" aspect of the flaws in PVP.

Thanks very little.
Ros

[Virindi Clown]

Banes are the problem. They've always thrown off balance horribly, and always left war magic ahead because it is not affected by them.

We were better off with hollows and phantoms because they ignored them.

Now they are even worse, because you have to cast every single one.

I hope when they redo buffs they just get rid of banes as they are. I think they need to have a very small effect, like +40% or something so that they really are only for special situations and everyone doesn't go running around in all of them. Things would have to change with the game, but that change is certainly for the better.

Arrows are just plain stupid. They go through the air like arc spells, but then target like bolt spells. Worst of both worlds there. They should get the same options war mages do.

The arrows also need a HUGE velocity adjustment. Those things don't come at you like a rock someone lobbed in the air when you shoot them out of a huge bow meant for skewering people, but that's how it works in AC for some stupid reason, and it makes it pointless.

Volleys and blasts should move as fast as hecatombs do. Walls should do more damage and get a small boost in speed. Those particularly don't need to go blasting over the whole radar in half a second, but you can literally outrun them. They should have a point if they are going to exist.

The DAMAGE people do on ANY char is not unbalanced now. That needs to be left alone. It's the limiting factors inherent in certain classes that are now messing it up.

[CouchAttack]

Nya, thats 100% correct in 1 v 1.

Gb2ff

[Ros]

Basically - you cannot have a Legitimate debate about balance without dicussing the "History" of what has been done already.

and if you think what has been done already is "Adequate" enough - you are sorely mistaken.

All we've ever had were "Bandaid fixes" that gave us the "Illusion" of balance.

But its had more negative Repurcussions to the entire player-base.

It seperated PK from the Mainstream of AC-play so that when they add a new "Bandaid" Artifact to improve PK - the NPK players get miffed about "Useless content"..

Likewise for DT - when they add any Quest item that is useless in PVP - The DT'ers get pissed about "Useless content"


and both sides complain about the other when it comes to suggestions for New content.


Now am I just freakin Crazy?? Or am I the only one who actually reckognizes this MAJOR shortcoming??

Splitting the player base in such ways- is akin to trying to produce 2 Seperate games at the same time....which is a recipe for failure.

We need to bridge the gap- AC is AC no matter what server you play on, or what playstyle you prefer (PVP or PVM). There should be NO DISCRIMINATION - its NOT that trivial, if they would actually go to the HEART of the problem, rather than "tweaking" Items that effectively "Break" some part of the Systems as a very short-sighted approach to "fixing" things.

I wouldn't describe them as a "Fix" at all, actually, but rather a form of "Appeasement" from someone who was totally unmotivated to do the REAL WORK required.

Ros

[Nya13]

:eek: Ros You are Wrong
All this upgrades (Hollow/Weeping/level 7...) are the result of the players level and "new quests" interest in game.
Now very a lot of people are 126+

level 6 => 7
Hollow weapon => Deadly Hollow weapon
Atlan weapon => Weeping weapon
...
= Stuff/upgraded + better to pvp

Drain fix was maybe the best thing they did
Doesnt matter if we cant make the old life template anymore.

Banes aren't a problem
you guys are crazy
the problem = No auto buff option! thats why lot people are using NB2
and they need to perma ban all the "GEAR" users in game

[Nya13]

I am glad to see all the change coming soon in game
Turbine is doing a good job now
But they can't changes all the features base in game

They now just need to upgrade the balance PvP a little more
(dont listen all this whiners)

And give someting about the Guilds War interest in game (PvP)

INCREASE THE TIMER NPK AFTER A DEATH (PvP)
5 minutes is too smart
15 minutes should be good

a lot of Players wearing "no dropable stuffs" come back to the fight constantly after a death.
and it will bring away all the Newbie's Killers at outpost...

[Ros]

rofl WRONG?!

Banes aren't the problem?? *WE'RE* Crazy?!?!

I would have you go back and do some research into the Older Dev Chats, hon.

You've got it all wrong - you've got ME all wrong.

Thats actual history babe. AS WE WHO HAVE BEEN HERE ALL KNOW!!!

How do we know? Thankyou for asking:

Jesse (aka Devilmouse) who was part of the ACDev team used to actually PLAY on Darktide. He demonstrated several "flaws" and his reasons for not being able to fix them were, and I quote:

"Lack of Resources"

That CLEARLY isn't the Case now - Though Jesse has since moved on - leaving the game in the hands of a Dev team that might even be UNAWARE of the nuances involved in "Past solutions"

That is why the HISTORY is so keenly important to the issue.

I strongly urge you to get your FACTS straight, before you go meddling in a vocal effort to further screw up the game.

Thanks very little.
Ros

[Nya13]

like the exploit (slide cast) that made the game fun lol
Aye so true.
Don't see any problem about banes.
Removing it will be stupid

It's Original Spells.
This Item Magic Spells make AC particular also

[Ros]

Noone said anything about removing banes - I just all for making LURE's work on something other than a Shield.

Ros

[CouchAttack]

Thats removing banes, and sword is overpowered as it is, I don't feel like being one hit by them, which I am if im not baned. In fully tinked armor.

[Ayatollah]

How can you lure someones armor? If it was possible to click armor just to cast a lure 1) you will be done in gangs 2) people would quit 3) more people will hide 4) will take too much time trying to click their armor (that's enough)

[Ros]

Thats all true of course, which also addresses another bandaid.

They raised dmgs to address their shortcomings against banes.

Sounds radical, but they *would* have to take most melee weapons down a few notches more towards their original damage values.

otherwise, yah - you're right. Melee's would one-hit everything.
Ros

[Virindi Clown]

I've always said PvP and PvM have been separated for no good reason. It's stupid because it's so easy to fix. Let's see...make loot weapons the main form of PvP just like they are in PvM, and stop making quest items have insane values that serve only one purpose-to keep DT from using them.

People don't play red on NPK servers because they can't use half the items they are used to.

Banes, as they are, do need to be taken out. More debuffs isn't the answer. That just makes it worse.

Like I said, damage just needs to be rebalanced so banes aren't required to keep you alive, and then banes should have a very small affect so everyone isn't running around in them. The only purpose they should serve is if you are fighting something like devastators where there will only be one damage type and you are going to be hit hard while making a lot of xp. Another exception might be the same situation, but for a good quest instead of xp.

[CouchAttack]

Nya, get all AL 400+ armor, dont buff it, have your melee friend imp and vuln you and do tests of damage.

[Phat-DT]

mages will suck if war dmg is reduced like that...

mages will hit for 60-150 on melees

mages wont be able to godmode because of stam loss, they will be able to diemode.

mage vs mage will be mad fun, but melees will crush mages in seconds

[Nya13]

Originally posted by CouchAttack
Nya, get all AL 400+ armor, dont buff it, have your melee friend imp and vuln you and do tests of damage.

aye and we can say samething about WAR SPELLS

Vuln 7 + War 7 on somone using life protect 5- or none = once shoot death.

Originally posted by Phat-DT
mages will suck if war dmg is reduced like that...

mages will hit for 60-150 on melees

mages wont be able to godmode because of stam loss, they will be able to diemode.

mage vs mage will be mad fun, but melees will crush mages in seconds

How is the melee vs melee fight PvP
Or Archer vs Archer?

U guys are just whining coz u like Mage PvP system only.

Ur whining coz ur mage template atm ll such if War spells damages is decreased a little.

use ur brain and dodge it! god mod will give more fun to mage in game and it doesnt matter if War Spell damages is decreased a little. It's still uber and u can still kill somone with 2 shoot or 3 shoots if he got 350+ healt (with average damages)

All mages in game got same template atm
Spec War + Magic DEF + (Life?)
base 100 endu + 100 focus + 100 self.
and getting it to max
isnt it boring?

[Ifuritah]

Vuln 7 + War 7 on somone using life protect 5- or none = once shoot death.

DUH!

ANyone using lower level spells is going got thumped on by someone using higher level spells. I thought that was obvious...

Why are you trying to retort? Your just posting stuff that everyone knows already...



- Maybe this is just miscommunication?

This doesn't make sense to me... *pulls hair out*

[Nya13]

doesnt matter :o

just giving my ideas about PvP system

Add this :

I hear lot of people asking why There are few Items/quests made in game to pvp!?

What's they mean?
No drops stuffs? stuffs dropable in game are too expensive to wear? If They asking no-dropable stuffs in game to pvp why they like the drop/loot system in pvp? or are they scared to wear stuffs that can be droped in fight? or they asking not expensive stuffs (almost no dropable unless they have no "Death Items")?

I suggest to remove all the non-drop stuffs in game.
losing stuffs is part of game when we die.
On PK server (or PvP) being looted by an other PK is the danger.

u got loted by a PK? Worried? Then dont play PK
Lost ur stuffs? go remake it / redo ur items/quests :D

On the NPK servers monsters dont loot ur corps!
it's all fine.

[Ibn]

This thread is being closed due to personal attacks.