Asheron's Call Empyrean vs Isparian Discussion.

[Renegade Knight]

A simple question, are we more advanced then the Empyrean at our current state?

In my opinion, we are equal to them, because we have achieved things they could not, yet they have also achieved things we cannot. A few examples of things we've done:
-Defeating/warning off the Ancient Olthoi Queen.
-We've managed to mantain peace between the ethnic cultures in Dereth currently, we don't see the Aluvians raging war against the Sho for example.
-We've defeated Gaerlan, one of thier most powerful mages.
-Killing Bael'Zharon's mortal body.

Things they've done:
-They have 14 schools of magic, we have 4.
-The ability to augment themselves using blood magic, and the gems. (I believe we'll overcome this one with the expansion with the augmentation gems)
-Enslaving the Burun, or other native speices of Bur (if you can call that a accomplishment)
-Lifestones

I'm sure there are many more, I did not wish to list them all, yet in my opinion, we balance out with them pretty well. Feel free to now flame me, or discuss this, either will do. :cool:

[Uzi-El]

A simple question, are we more advanced then the Empyrean at our current state?

No.

-Defeating/warning off the Ancient Olthoi Queen.

With the help of Falatacot magics and devices/power of Viriindi origin.

-We've managed to mantain peace between the ethnic cultures in Dereth currently, we don't see the Aluvians raging war against the Sho for example.

Well, since the Millennium War left the Dericost and something left the Haebrous as minorities, while the three Isparian heritage groups are presumably a more balanced mix, it's not a fair comparison. And we'll see how well the peace lasts when the Viamontians get here in a few months.

-We've defeated Gaerlan, one of thier most powerful mages.

After Martine (a Virindi-altered mutant) severely damaged it and Asheron gave us the means to enter. To top it off, Nuhmie had to come along and use her Blood Magic to finish him off instead of letting us. And anyway, it's Gaerlan. What sort of accomplishment is it to defeat the man single-handedly responsible for the downfall of his race *and* who managed to blow up Yanshi? I'm surprised the moron didn't trip over his own feet and impale himself on Iasparaluun.

-Killing Bael'Zharon's mortal body.

With the help of Asheron, the Virindi, the Dericost, and the Shadows. That's roughly equivalent to hitting a T-ball--hardly an insignificant feat, but hardly significant either, since someone else took most of the challenge out of it.

Basically, to paraphrase a famous quote, we can see far only because we stand on the backs of giants. And because someone handed us a telescope. Most of our "accomplishments" were still due to Dear Uncle Ash, Wacky Aunt Nuhmie, or any of our wonderful cousins here on Dereth. Take away all the Empyrean and alien leftovers we've accumulated over the years, and what would that leave us? (And just once I'd like to see us overcome an adversary through our own work and intellect, not because someone just happened to find some ancient Empyrean MacGuffin that we can luckily adapt to our present needs.)

-Lifestones

Asheron created the Lifestones as we know them, not the Empyrean as a whole. They were originally just some navigational beacons, until Asheron turned them into devices that are able to transcend little things like death itself (unless your name happens to be "Morgluuk", anyway...) Chalk it up to Ash's singular gift for innovation (read: conveniently coming up with **** relevant to the story at hand).

You also left out the most important thing: Empyrean are simply stronger than we are. They have abilities and levels of power we can't even begin to touch right now, and we have limitations we're unable to overcome (outside of sacrificing a few handy Zharalim). We won't even begin to approach their sheer physical and mystical power until at least AC2, and even then, the only real Empyrean we'll have for comparison will probably be a bunch of portal refugees who've allowed the last few thousand years turn their complexions into something resembling Legolas by way of Smurf Village.