If weeping weapons are debuffable, archers are 100% dead

[Virindi Clown]

Instead of fixing them, they just bite the dust completely?

So tell me, when archers have so many problems in PvP, now their damage will be taken away?

And on top of that, mages just go free of it? Omg I might debuff your mana con mod, watch out!

That's not -22 damage.

I don't really see what is so WRONG with any damage. Archers are just left out, so everything just goes mage to melee, mage to melee, and the changes just keep going with no point.

It's been turned into a one way battle that can never be balanced because of the different natures of the two. You put something in that has an entirely different nature in a group fight, and THEN you can see what needs to be done. My bet is, nothing.

[MomentofClarity]

If you debuff a mages mana c %, its not going to really do much. I do agree archers are going to straight into the ground.

[HeXt]

Debuffing a mage's weeping wand should bring down their casting damage of some sort. :/

[MomentofClarity]

Yeah but it wouldn't do much though. Mainly if their mana c is maxed or really high.

[HeXt]

Originally posted by MomentofClarity
Yeah but it wouldn't do much though. Mainly if their mana c is maxed or really high.


Which is my point of why it SHOULD hurt them in some way, but that doesn't hurt them much at all.


"Oh no, you debuffed my wand...in that case let me bring out...THE BAUDREN (invoker in my case..)"







What I'm really wondering is though, if someone untrains lore, and uses the base stats of the weapons, and gets a bot/buffs the weapons up with 7's, will they be higher damge because they are not active? in that case run them out of mana 100% and boom you got the best weapon in pk.

[MomentofClarity]

"Oh no, you debuffed my wand...in that case let me bring out...THE BAUDREN (invoker in my case..)"

Lol! that was funny

[Virindi Clown]

The only thing would be making the mana con inept make the weeping wand unable to cast spells.

Then they WOULD have to get out something different, and a cs or cb wand would be in line with that.

It's just a horrible idea and CANNOT be allowed to happen.

So melees hit so hard they have to be debuffable as well? That's funny, because people being hit for 200+ are running around in al 100 armor from stores. You don't crit shadow armor, and sure as heck not tinkered armor for near that.

That's the lazy person's fault, and they can pay the price for it, not the rest of the game.

[Kieoto]

Yeah but it wouldn't do much though. Mainly if their mana c is maxed or really high.


lol...


remember wands BEFORE no Mana C bonus?? It wont effect anything, it only takes 2 shots to kill off someone with a Weeping wand anyways. Weeping Weapons should just totally be removed, They are too powerful and make PK(L) fights very short and you end up buffing more then being able to fight someone. And besides, with mages, all that PK fights really come down too is "Who can bug out the casting animation first". Pointless imo, i'd rather use my comps for finding items and getting xp!

[MomentofClarity]

Weeping weapons kill the skill in this game. Lag and Hp are the main factors.

[Paraduck]

One of the POINTS of Weeping Weapons were to speed up PK fights. I'd say it worked and it was fairly balanced before making them enchantable and buffing the human slayer mod on melee weapons.

[FeralthioMT]

Archers were basically dead anyway. We can do maybe 30 dmg a shot but now since of these dbuffs we can do like what 10 dmg to mages or melees? First the radar **** change and now this. I wonder what is next?

[Televangelist]

This is why inexperience in PvP results in uninformed opinions.


Archers are not "100% dead". A good archer will never get hit by pacification.

[FeralthioMT]

Who cares if they are hit the spell or not? Archers still cant deal out the damage before a mage can easly heal it back. Its also easy to dodge arrows and just get like 200 missle def and we have to put our bars half way up or even more to even hit them.

[Virindi Clown]

You can post about this on the player feedback forum.

When we ask ourselves the questions like "Now this, what's next?" just go there and make sure there is no this and we can stop what comes next as well when it gets here.

Say no to this. It will ruin any chance of DT recovering to a circular balance with every character type included.

It's a step in exactly the WRONG direction and that must be made aware of.

Everyone go post.

[Televangelist]

Archers aren't a 1vs1 class. They're a group class, and I'm not sure why people try to play them as a 1vs1 class.

[Virindi Clown]

They are a dead class as is, and will be all but gone.

That's exactly what I am talking about. Everything works in a group sense.

When I say give them power and see how it goes, I mean watch what happens when you see HUGE groups of people of 1/3 mages, 1/3 melees, and 1/3 archers.

If every class has some viability, they appear proportionally on the battlefield.

That evens out ANY balance issues between melees and mages, because you can turn around any arguement and look at it in a million other ways with tons of advantages and disadvantages for both sides that just come about in different cases.

[AzulDrakkon]

Group or solo should not matter, skill and preparation should be the only factors, and giving mages ANOTHER easy out is NOT skill, quink, you're dead wrong bud, I like ya but you gotta be kidding me....archers have fallen off the face of dereth, many of my guildmates have changed to sword, bundle of joy changed to sword apparently too and if archers can be so magically skilled while their arrows will hit the eviroment at the slightest movement, and hit for 30s which is not even a tenth of a mages health (which is easily healed) its common sense that they aren't powerful...the only easy way an archer can heal a war is if they have plentiful kits...hard to get (sing keys in timaru or bobo...), or if they pull out their wands and StM or heal...which the archers I've seen can't slidecast worth ****, and they shouldn't have to...they are ARCHERS, that is also the reason they should be able to hit halfway decent from afar, and making another excuse for mages to whine (omg you shouldn't be able to have more than one weeping, or you shouldn't be able to put away your weapon, its just a sad state of affairs when we have switch or gear multiple times.)

why doesn't turbine just make it to the point where archers and melees cannot move so it'll be a little easier on you guys? I suppose that would be good too :)

[Televangelist]

If every class has some viability, they appear proportionally on the battlefield.

Not necessarily, no.

[Andiglo]

Originally posted by Televangelist
Archers aren't a 1vs1 class. They're a group class, and I'm not sure why people try to play them as a 1vs1 class.

A group of mages will take out a group of archers any day.

[MomentofClarity]

Hilary Duff incinerates your foot for 156 points of fire damage! <------- full banes and 520 al wtf is this??? And this was on full speed too.

[AzulDrakkon]

Thought she was mage, when I killed her at AL she was.

[Andiglo]

Originally posted by MomentofClarity
Hilary Duff incinerates your foot for 156 points of fire damage! <------- full banes and 520 al wtf is this??? And this was on full speed too.

That's a crit. Now you get to reduce that damage by half next month.

[AzulDrakkon]

Unless shes level 305 now, I don't see that happening, you must have forgot a bane or it must have been full power.

[MomentofClarity]

I didnt forget a bane nor was it on full power. He was piercing with fire too so it wasn't a slash at my feet.

[Virindi Clown]

Moment, that just isn't possible. Literally, it CANNOT happen. That is within the exact range of a power crit on that armor. Speed would have been like 50.

Televangilist, if classes have viability, they might not appear in exact proportions, but they will be apparent.

How many melees did you used to see? How many do you see now? Think about it. You give archers the correct amount of power and atleast you will see them in every large fight.

And seeing them in every large fight would be a very good thing. It wouldn't be the "mages vuln, melees gank" game. It changes a lot.

[Genji-Glove]

Overall I really don't care if they make weeping weapons debuffable or not, but when they do it's not going to make a hell of a lot of difference.

When a mage says 'Equin Aeril', pull in your weapon.
If that doesn't work try carrying 2-3 weeping weapons or an AR bow.

[Andiglo]

Originally posted by Genji-Glove
Overall I really don't care if they make weeping weapons debuffable or not, but when they do it's not going to make a hell of a lot of difference.

When a mage says 'Equin Aeril', pull in your weapon.
If that doesn't work try carrying 2-3 weeping weapons or an AR bow.

Great I pull it in, only for them to abort the spell, and cast a war spell on me while I get inand out of attack mode, and switch weapons.

If could debuff the attack damage on a weeping wand the mages would be up in arms.

[Brader]

Hext you have stated this numerous times in numerous threads. And we have tried to explain to you why it does not work this way. Here is your theory:

"What I'm really wondering is though, if someone untrains lore, and uses the base stats of the weapons, and gets a bot/buffs the weapons up with 7's, will they be higher damge because they are not active? in that case run them out of mana 100% and boom you got the best weapon in pk."

I will try to explain it to you again in the simpest of terms:

1: Weeping weapon BASE damage is far inferior to any tinkered weapon

2: Therefore you would not be wanting to buff a....... for example +80 Mod Weeping bow with 7's as opposed to a 166 Mod AR Bow.

3: What makes weeping weapons work in PvP is their special built in spells that no other weapon has. You can not cast these spells.

4: The built in PvP spells will not stack with any castable spell. The built in spells are far superior to anything you could cast. That means even if you did drain it of mana, you would be killing yourself, and end up with a weapon that is useless.

5: Even if you did cast BD7 / SK7 / HS7 / Defender 7 / you would be casting that on a untinkerable weapon, that is far inferior to any tinkerable weapon.

The bottom line is that a weeping weapon, without the built in spells that are designed exclusively for PvP, are entirely useless in PvP, even if you cast a full set of 7's on them.

[Virindi Clown]

Carrying multiple weapons is not a solution, and is basically unfair. I don't see mages having to carry around 5 wands. Carrying an AR bow doesn't do anything either, because they're debuffable just the same.

The fact is, the damage is fine the way it is. BL would not be used strategically. Everyone would cast it first thing for every melee or archer they see. That's exactly how it was with ARs, so I just used phantom 90% of the time.

If you disarm when they cast BL, then you are weaponless, and they can cast a war while you rearm. They can repeat this endlessly if they want.

What in the world is the point of ANY of that?

[Genji-Glove]

OMG, You have never played PvP before weeping weapon's were in the game so stop posting on something that you have no clue about.

The time it takes to cast a item debuff is equivalent to the time it takes to pull in a weapon. (Plus the mage has to manage to click on the melees weapon as he is swinging it)

If you suck too bad to pull in your weapon like the rest of us have done for years, go and get a second or third bow as alternative weapons.

[Virindi Clown]

Oh that's a funny joke , seeing as I've played DT since Nov '99.

Also funny how YOU have no idea what you are talking about with clicking swinging weapons. Funny how you don't have to target them anymore and can just cast the spell on the person.
Even when you didn't, people just used Alert to click the weapons.

That changes things Mr. Carebear, wouldn't you say?

And it DOES take longer to disarm your weapon and rearm it than for them to cast. You also CANT RUN while you are doing it if you are not in peace mode, which you cannot switch to and still disarm in the time they take to cast BL. How many PKs do you see running around in peace mode while they fight? Therfore, you disarm your sword, then move to the unarmed stance, then rearm your sword and switch back to the combat stance.

[Krazed]

I already started changing my archer to a sword......I like being an archer, but if you cannot compete 1 v 1 with the other classes why even bother trying.

I trained missle on my level 90 mage and with his 330 buffed health I have yet to be killed by an archer.

[MomentofClarity]

Some of you people need to actually play DT or pk alot on a npk world to know whats going on. And I don't mean 5 months, I mean like 1-3 years of hard knock life.

[Andiglo]

It doesn't take 2-3 years for people to know how much mages dominate PvP. If it takes 2-3 years for a melee or archer to figure out how to PvP, then maybe something is wrong with it too. Imagine if I said to mages, it takes 2-3 years to figure out how to be competative... would say something wouldn't it.

BTW I do think that PvP is different on DT.

[MomentofClarity]

^ you personally with some of the ideas and thoughts you stated, YOU need to play a DT char lol.

[Andiglo]

actually I did

[MomentofClarity]

I mean something above 80+ not 30

[Genji-Glove]

Sorry but you guys are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Debuffable weeping weapons isn't the end of anything, it just brings a little bit of skill back into PvP.

[MomentofClarity]

I am all up for it. Most of these melees who thought they were realist killas are going to whine like puppies now.

[elf]

If weepings become debuffable archers and melees with just do what they did before weeping, carry multiple weapons and unwield. Mages are better than archers and melees 1v1, but you are whining like this is something new. Most mages take the inconvenience of casting a minimum of 20-36 bane spells, preventing them from being 2 shotted. You only need to cast around 12 spells (assuming you have meleeD and are just fighting a mage) for three different weapons. This combined with timely gems and unwielding will still give you a decent chance to win. Additionally, most people complaining about how weak melees and archers are in pvp do not know how to play them effectively.

[AzulDrakkon]

NO...The Simple truth is, BL kills the weapons damage, now stop being mages for a second...I CAN'T KILL YOUR WAR DAMAGE WHY IN THE WORLD SHOULD YOU BE ABLE TO KILL MY DAMAGE OR MAKE ME TAKE THE FREAKING TIME TO PUT AWAY MY WEAPON(EASY TO TARGET NOW...WOOHOO), GOD FORBID I SHOOT BE SHOOTING AND SOMEONE FASTCASTS IT...while meanwhile you're sitting pretty on your friggin 200+ damage, no, stop crying, not everyone has major wards and aegis, just nerf melees damage and it'll be near balanced again...and thats all that needs to be said, I didn't hear anyone complain in august. (except for the melees who wanted elemental damage...the smart ones used their ARs and surprised the **** outta anyone who thought the gank was going slash/pierce.)

Now guys, I respect your opinions but if you saw this from an archers (or a non-sword/ua melee) perspective you'd see why this is way overboard.

and suddenly just because we are melees or archers we don't have to bane?
I get hit as hard as any mage does even with my 340 base melee (trained)

The point is, it should be balanced, mages shouldn't be a "1v1" class everyone should, and mages should stop mouthing about melees ganking them 2+ v 1...same thing happens to me or any other player unlucky enough to recall to them, and until they make a way to break a sticky.....other than jumpspin...

[Genji-Glove]

OMG !!!! MELEES ARE GETTING WEEPING WEAPONS THAT DO 2 TIMES THE DAMAGE OF AR WEAPONS, MAGES ARE 100% DEAD!!!

OMG!?!?!?!?! MELEES ARE GONNNA BE INVINCIBLE WHEN THEY GET MAGIC RESISTING SHIELDS AND MAGES WILL BE 100% DEAD!!!!

OMG ?!?!?!?! NOW THAT MELEES ARE GETTING MAJOR WARDS MAGES ARE GONNA BE DEAD BECAUSE THEY WILL DO 15% LESS DAMAGE!!!?!?!!

Melees are whining about nothing.

The last 3-6 months have been making them better and better in PvP and now that turbine realizes they have made melees over powered in group fights they are toning them down a bit.

EDIT: oh yah, and don't try to say that weeping weapons and major wards were just as good for mages as they were for melees. Weeping weapons bring up a mages damage by about 10-15% over top of critical strike and critical blow orbs while they bring up a melee/archers damage by about 30-50% over AR weapons.
For major wards, they do nothing for a mage because we already had tinkered armor which still does better than gsc with wards in it.

[Virindi Clown]

This thread is making me sick. Half of it is carebears who I don't want to say another word. Another 25% are ridiculous arguements.

Debuffing weeping weapons adds SKILL? HOW THE HELL DOES IT DO THAT? You click the person and cast the spell? THAT'S SKILL?

Oh so maybe you're talking about disarming the weapon to avoid it, and carrying more than one? Yes! I'm forced to make TONS AND TONS of weapons while mages have ONE! That's SKILL!

Make archers do zero damage! SKILL! Make mages untouched by the change! SKILL!

SKILL SKILL SKILL SKILL AND MORE SKILL FOR 0.o CAREBEAR IDIOTS WHO CAN'T PLAY AND HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT!

[elf]

Congratulations at making a completely irrational arguement.

[AzulDrakkon]

Originally posted by Genji-Glove
OMG !!!! MELEES ARE GETTING WEEPING WEAPONS THAT DO 2 TIMES THE DAMAGE OF AR WEAPONS, MAGES ARE 100% DEAD!!!

OMG!?!?!?!?! MELEES ARE GONNNA BE INVINCIBLE WHEN THEY GET MAGIC RESISTING SHIELDS AND MAGES WILL BE 100% DEAD!!!!

OMG ?!?!?!?! NOW THAT MELEES ARE GETTING MAJOR WARDS MAGES ARE GONNA BE DEAD BECAUSE THEY WILL DO 15% LESS DAMAGE!!!?!?!!


Melees are whining about nothing.

The last 3-6 months have been making them better and better in PvP and now that turbine realizes they have made melees over powered in group fights they are toning them down a bit.

EDIT: oh yah, and don't try to say that weeping weapons and major wards were just as good for mages as they were for melees. Weeping weapons bring up a mages damage by about 10-15% over top of critical strike and critical blow orbs while they bring up a melee/archers damage by about 30-50% over AR weapons.
For major wards, they do nothing for a mage because we already had tinkered armor which still does better than gsc with wards in it.

Melees, you say?...and don't act like war wasn't overpowered before, I'm sorry but hitting me for 4/5s of my health is totally bunk, and especially atop the animation breaks, arrow glitching, delay-spam casting that I see already...not to mention the hordes of other glitches that mages abuse to stay on top, and their defense to this is "chaingun"...

chaingun is an exploit but a VERY pathetic one... first off the archer needs a sloped wall but not sloped enough to walk up it, advocate buildings are a great example! But this is exactly why you won't see this trick outside of newbie towns and very rarely on the landscape, and often the archer's need to set the attack on speed makes it easy to evade....even with untrained missile.
(yes I know how to chaingun...I thought it was the coolest thing ever when I was a nooblet.)

I believe that your wars are still viable even after the sharded armor goes on...if they don't hit for enough drain the melee...thats simple enough...its what drains were made for.

BTW maybe 30%-50% is right, but no one uses an AR 98% bow now do they...if I saw someone chasing me with one I'd laugh, turn around and use my blooddrinkered gauntlets to kill them

[elf]

Archers are probably the easiest class to dodge wars in. Granted missileD is quite overpowered, this is probably the only thing keeping archers from doing fine.

Edit: It takes 4 wars to kill a melee in an Aegis and major ward. Even if all 4 wars hit and arent resisted a mage is going to still be dead by then. Too bad mages cant evade or dodge melee attacks.

[MomentofClarity]

"Melees, you say?...and don't act like war wasn't overpowered before, I'm sorry but hitting me for 4/5s of my health is totally bunk, and especially atop the animation breaks, arrow glitching, delay-spam casting that I see already...not to mention the hordes of other glitches that mages abuse to stay on top, and their defense to this is "chaingun"..."

What an o.0 LOL. When it came to 2 melees vs 1 mage, the mage was 90% dead if he didnt think fast. If it was 2 mages and 1 melee, the melee can skip away like a little girl late for her flower picking. Melees have wards, aegis, weepings, etc. What more do you want, a pony to ride in battle so you can hit and run away faster?

"I believe that your wars are still viable even after the sharded armor goes on...if they don't hit for enough drain the melee...thats simple enough...its what drains were made for."

Drains are a waste of time sometimes. They drain for dumb damage 1/2 of the time due to a persons resistant bonus.

[AzulDrakkon]

I don't even have O.o characters bud, I'm hardcore Darktide...My melee doesn't get away from melee ganks, and btw sticky isn't the same as friggin damage, they are trying to fix sticky and make it more fair, but atm its gimped up...not my problem, and I've never seen a mage hit for less than 100, I've seen them hit for 130...but thats the lowest I've seen...and with maxxed health and 10 endu like most melees have thats 3 shots not four. Bloodloather is not the way to fix it, maybe you guys aren't listening to me when I say they should nerf the damage on melee weepings to prepatch...because melees did fine and hardly anyone had a right to complain...aside from archers (btw its easier to dodge wars on mage than an archer elf :) ) not being able to hit and when they did, have to bust through someones 300 missile which about nullifies their speed to that of a war or even slower. (loading arrow animation, firing sequence, reloading animation...in which its difficult to put your bow away!)

Btw my main is a friggin archer ...I'm not asking for melee love, I'm asking for them to stop nerfing us as a side effect :eek:

[Krazed]

They should add a new item magic spell, it should be a spell for higher resistance on weapons and shields to keep them from being debuffed.

[Paraduck]

Originally posted by Krazed
They should add a new item magic spell, it should be a spell for higher resistance on weapons and shields to keep them from being debuffed.
There is -- it's called Magic Resistance.

But seriously, if they go through with this, I agree that magic resistance and how it applies on item spells should be tweaked some. The simplest and best solution to all is to just pull it out of the prop.

[Krazed]

Magic resistance is a creature spell...

I was talking about adding a new spell to the item mastery ones. The spell would add more resistance against debuffs on weapons and shields.

[Paraduck]

It's a spell with the same effect.

[Andiglo]

Originally posted by MomentofClarity
[BMelees have wards, aegis, weepings, etc. What more do you want, a pony to ride in battle so you can hit and run away faster?
[/B]

Mages have wards and weepings too. Mages can run too. Are you saying that melee's are equal because they can run away?

And about the shield, pull the aegis out, reduce a hit from 200 down to 180, WOOT Now I can die in 2 war spells instead of 2 war spells.

[MomentofClarity]

"Mages have wards and weepings too. Mages can run too. Are you saying that melee's are equal because they can run away?

And about the shield, pull the aegis out, reduce a hit from 200 down to 180, WOOT Now I can die in 2 war spells instead of 2 war spells."

Of course mages have weepings and wards but melees can prance away from wars. We dont have sticky war spells when we get close enough lol. On that last paragraph you just proved you are a noob who has no idea what he is talking about. For example, lightning ward + aegis = instead of hitting for 200 you hit for like 120-140 regular hit. Stop being an o.0 kthx

[AzulDrakkon]

Btw, this post isn't about melees...its about archers

We are seriously getting the short straw in this melee/mage war, mages complain their wars don't bother melees because of aegis...we don't have aegis, and meanwhile we can't hit anyone on speed because how jacked up missile is...even if it wasn't, a little elevation kills the chance to hit anyone or even attempts to kill a person are difficult because its too simple to glitch out arrows, meanwhile the mages who are vested in exploits are complaining about the overpowered melees and meanwhile the archers are looking at this and collecting despec gems because this patch will be game over.

[MomentofClarity]

Yeah archers are done next patch. LOL

[Genji-Glove]

*****Melees, you say?...and don't act like war wasn't overpowered before, I'm sorry but hitting me for 4/5s of my health is totally bunk, and especially atop the animation breaks, arrow glitching, delay-spam casting that I see already...not to mention the hordes of other glitches that mages abuse to stay on top, and their defense to this is "chaingun"...******

Sorry but mages do not hit for 4/5 of your health.

The most a mage is going to hit for is 200 if a player has no wards or aegis shield on and almost all people that play on DT these days have 320+ health.

********************************************

The only thing that I will agree with you on is that archers are under powered. They have been ever since the weeping bow's damage was brought down.

[Krazed]

"The most mages will hit you for is 200"



Krazed Lunatic blasts you for 220 points with Alset's Coil

I would say thats a bit more than 200 and was not even a critical hit.

[AzulDrakkon]

War damage goes up with skill genji, and usually I wind up fighting lvl 200 bloods (ouchies...ban UCMers prz!) , and often I get oneshot with 265 health and its not a rare occurence for me lol, the only thing that keeps my archer going in pk are plentiful kits, since you might as well /die if you think you can whip out an orb, get into copmbat mode...without glitching mind you...and cast StH or heal before a mage can harm ya or blast ya with a streak :)

[Virindi Clown]

Lol Andiglo, your last comment in that post was quite true. People who say aegis makes it impossible to kill a melee are nuts. I have 300 health and I'll die in two hits guaranteed. VERY VERY VERY often one war and one streak. How exactly do you dodge a streak when stick is trying to run you back into your target all the time and you are just breaking away at point blank range? Sure a second one won't hit me, but the first one is basically 99% going to land.

Four wars, screw you for even thinking that. That's impossible. NO ONE can survive four wars. Not even with HUGE luck. It's not going to happen.

Man people need to have played ONCE before they can post here. That needs to be some kind of rule.

Archers are completely dead, and it looks like that's the way the devs want it, seeing as there has been no comment about making weeping weapons debuffable not happen.

Congratulations. Right when it was starting to shape up you ruin it again. The same old cycle PvP has been running for four years straight.

[Ophar Kabitaki]

September rollout...excerpt about the item magic changes allowing you to cast on wielded items held by your target.

Please note that this does not allow you to cast spells on the armor or clothing worn by a player or creature, nor does it change the existing NPK/PK/PKL rules for casting on wielded items.

Still have to actually target the weapon in PK sounds like..not sure..haven't used the spells when I PKL.

[Max the Macer]

Can Someone please explain to me, (obviously a pkl noob)
Why Mages need a further advantage?
It is pretty much impossible to one on one a mage, he just drains and shoots, and bang you dead.

How bout some parity?

[Andiglo]

For a melee to kill a mage:

The mage can:

(1) not bane
(2) lag
(3) run out of mana

and the melee must:

(1) Crit often
(2) have weeping weapons (more than one after Jan)
(3) have major wards
(4) have aegis
(5) high magic D so you can use aegis
(6) Run around and NEVER get hit, between your 20 health point hits, per their cast.
(7) Spec Life Magic so you can imp/vun
(8) Have blue kits


It's simple. See how melee's are so powerful?

[Virindi Clown]

What Andiglo said is true. Even with maxed out str and mod str, the only way I ever kill a mage is to crit them a bunch and get lucky.

Every time I kill a mage I get two crits really close and it takes them by surprise when they're getting stamina and mana or something.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to just jump in and out of non-stop wars and kill a mage outright like that.

You don't HAVE to have major wards, but you are going to die in two shots guaranteed or a big war and a streak many times if you don't.

My melee has life speced, and it buffs to 385 at 148 mil/pt. I basically cannot get it much higher, as it costs a ridiculous amount, especially considering he is a MELEE.

Yet I still see myself resisted even four times in a row, while the mage just casts one vuln and shoots. I have to land imp and a vuln between being resisted.

I am not saying there is anything wrong with any of that. I am just saying that shows melees are not tremendously overpowered like every newb carebear who gets killed once PKL is so eager to rant about.

It's hard enough just to start a fight sometimes. Melees are NOT overpowered in 1 on 1 or very small fights. They are PERFECTLY balanced compared to how the game was for four years.

This is by far the absolute best it has ever been. Debuffing weeping weapons just ruins it.

Everyone will debuff in very small fights, not huge ones. You almost don't have time in a big one, and THAT is supposed to be what this is about.

Making weeping weapons debuffable when there are lots of melees makes large battles balanced, and DOESN'T completely ruin small fights with melees and archers?

THAT IS RIDICULOUS

[smaweet]

Maybe they should update hollows/phantoms and give a bonus for having melee spec? I frankly don't like melees always having to be magic-oriented to be a good fighter =/

[Genji-Glove]

Maybe more of you players that play PKL should make a template that's made for PvP if you are so concerned about it.

Melees with spec weapon skill/life/magic d with 100 str will focus are definately the best template in the game when a player has wards/aegis.

[Andiglo]

Maybe more of you players that play PKL should make a template that's made for PvP if you are so concerned about it.


They're called War Mages

Melees with spec weapon skill/life/magic d with 100 str will focus are definately the best template in the game when a player has wards/aegis.

Until you fight another melee.

[Virindi Clown]

Genji, that temp will get you completely eaten alive.

I used to run into a sword guy with that temp in the town I sell at all the time. He was high level but he wouldn't even fight me.

You can't hit guys with good melee defense, and you get hit by them every shot. That's a quick fight. You both hit attack and you just die in seconds.

Extreme melee temps let you actually fight it out with other melees AND give you the chance to kill mages as long as you are good enough at it. That's how melees are meant to be. You don't see mages with speced melee d.

Why not just use war magic with that temp? I never understood those high focus and self resist chars that weren't mages.

[elf]

...or do you just change sides when you find someone who can agree with you?

Umn hi the magic school melee can just debuff the extreme temp, oh and good luck trying to land on a mage with an extreme temp if you're under level 200.

The reason people have high foc/self temps as a melee is so that they can actually pvp solo unlike the gank-only gimps. Additionally it helps aegis tank more damage, no wonder you think aegis isn't very good.

Please learn how to play your melees people, sorry but you need to do something besides hit the delete key =(

[Virindi Clown]

I play solo on my extreme melee. Like I said, I speced life magic, so I land vulns good enough. It just becomes completely impossible sometimes when people manage to keep resisting, when I can't really do anything to get my life up more to stop that.

[Som|Blood]

those 100 str/end 55 will/foc sword chars are brutal actually

[Virindi Clown]

That temp makes more sense to me. Can't say I've ever run into one, though.

And a char with 100 starting focus and self only gets 26 more points of magic defense than one with 10. That doesn't make just a huge difference with the aegis.