IBN Please Read: Levers

[Zinh The Noble]

IBN,
Can you guys please remove these from our server? I'm pleading with you guys to do this. You guys have made a huge mistake by implementing this. In all honesty you should just put a button on the log in screen to put you at lvl 50 or something. This hasn't affected UCM at all. It hasn't given us anything to fight over. Nobody fights in there because they are peacing to get xp. The fact is no one wants to fight in there. So now you are nerfing hunting for everyone under lvl 109 because to compete now you have to go use these lame lever dungeons. I truly believe you guys have made a huge mistake. Please please remove them from our server....I cannot tell you enough how much this is affecting people and dumbing down this game. If you want to really make people come to DT you need to keep working on low level content to make it possible for new comers to level up. Sure they are way behind, but don't penalize us for that. New people come all the time to games and they have to start just like we did. Make a town that only people under 30 can access like Xarabydum was at one time. Make sure that low lvl dungeons are level restricted so that low level characters can hunt in peace....and make the xp worth a lot for their level. Make unique low level weapons etc.... BUT please don't leave these levers in. I've been playing DT for 4 years...I'm pleading with you guys to remove this mistake.

[ElronOfDarktide]

"nobody wants to fight in there"

YUP!!!!

thats the problem. They clearly didn't design the dungeons with PVP in mind!!!!

IBN says "we designed it with ramps in order to include a variety of pvp environments"

IBN my responce to that is "any dungeon with ramps is that ONE kind of pvp environment, a dungeon WITH RAMPS! Any mage can run to their precious ramps any time you try to kill them in there"

The players illustrated what we desired in a pvp environment , it got ignored. You could change these dungeons at the very least if not remove them. The changes perhaps could have PVP in mind , unlike the dungeons original design. Again.... when you say you are going to communicate more that does not mean ask what you should do and then ignore the players.

repost the "what should we do to fix things threads" that IBN himself has started. YOU WILL LAUGH YOUR BEHIND OFF. The post for pvp changes is the one right before the gem of stillness pvp removal patch. Remember ??? when rak and myself and others all posted a ton about how Gem's of stillness were terrible. IBN had a thread where that issue was illustrated to the dev's by tons of people. Look what else those same people were saying in that post back then. Its hillarious.

Elron

[PsycoOrca]

on a side note, were gems of still so bad? it sucks when you voln a person and he removed it. but that person hunted for 5+ mins for that 1 gem. or paid a D note for 1 gem, 5 mins of hunting vs having recast a spell does seem abit even. =/

back to subject, Remove the levers, Everyone likes geting free stuff but the lever os hurting DT more then helping. why not give 5 random loot items every pull, Who cares if it damages DT when people could have Free stuff! :mad:

Leveling is already easy, jerking off a npc to get xp is just stupid.

[Zinh The Noble]

Well for some reason IBN will respond to me at work but not here on the boards so I will post his response and I hope that you continue to respond to me at work IBN. I just want people to know what Turbine's stance is on this stuff since you don't seem to post here much. This is what IBN wrote to me after I sent this exact same message to him via email.


######,

We'll take your suggestions under consideration, but there are
no plans to remove these at this time. We've given the DT community
exactly what they asked for -- quick leveling and a place that would
draw everyone together, creating a natural combat area. If DT players
would rather powerlevel than fight, that is their choice.

---
Alex "Ibn" Beckers
AC1 Online Community Relations

This is what I just sent back to him via email:

How exactly did you decide that this is what we asked for? I don't remember being polled or asked. How many did you ask? How many complained and suggested this? What were your methods for deciding that the majority of DT wanted this or was it just a few people on the boards that made it look like we all wanted this? I would suggest you guys put together a better method of understanding what we want. This is just a suggestion but it would help. Maybe you can make a place on the boards or on the main website that announces potential changes and allows players to be polled on whether they would like to see the change or not and have it a secure log in with your name/password from the world of DT. Then you could put a line when you log into the game that directs you to this location to be able to vote on this feature. Did you do any of this? I don't remember it if you did. I'm just trying to give you some constructive feedback.

Best Regards,

[PsycoOrca]

a poll on stuff would be cool, or some way to have the poll in game would be nice aswell.

tho im sure there will be more votes for Yes then there are people playing DT. :confused:

so a IG poll & level reg be great to see what DT wants.

[Zinh The Noble]

Here is the thread that "I guess" was the basis for them deciding to go ahead on this. The thing that irritates me about this is that I was never asked for an oppinion...and how many others weren't? Basically if you don't use these boards there is no flag for you to know if something is going to change or that you need to provide any feed back to them. So if a bunch of dumb!@#!@ are posting stupid ideas here and all those people say yah make force fields on mages or something...does that mean Turbine will do it?????????????????????

I mean come on. IBN do you honestly believe that you obtained an accurate polling?

Here's the thread: http://forums.ac.turbinegames.com/showthread.php?t=17032&page=1&pp=15

[-EtG-]

I know the majority of Darktide has ASKED for UCM to be made legal

I know the majority of Darktide has ASKED for housing / mansion barriers to be removed

I know the majority of Darktide has ASKED at one stage for movement fizzle & stamina penalty to be removed

Howvere, I know the majority of Darktide NEVER ASKED for Exp Levers.

Btw, people who only have a level 5 on Darktide complaining about not being able to level don't count as Darktiders.

[Virindi Clown]

We've given the DT community
exactly what they asked for -- quick leveling and a place that would
draw everyone together, creating a natural combat area. If DT players
would rather powerlevel than fight, that is their choice.

---
Alex "Ibn" Beckers
AC1 Online Community Relations [/COLOR]

We never asked for something to that would get everyone crammed into one place. That wasn't mentioned as a goal when this idea was brought up, but it was mentioned many times as a big problem because it isn't what we wanted. We asked to make stuff worth fighting over again, and that's exactly what we were told these xp levers were for, even if they clearly have nothing to do with that. So which is it?

I love the last line. If DTers would rather powerlevel than fight...lmfao. Yeah, I'm sure most of the guys standing around peacing are DT veterans.

[PsycoOrca]

thought DTers want to powerlower to fight.

tho I like PvPing/questing/group work when im on and leveling when im not on.

hunting != fun, hunting = fun later, jerking npc while holding hands = stupid.

[Ibn]

Nobody fights in there because they are peacing to get xp. The fact is no one wants to fight in there.

I just did a quick check of all 5 Mausoleums. All 5 had either active combat going on or fresh corpses or both.

I'm not sure how to respond to your request. Was this just a fluke? I'll check again tomorrow, but it appears that at least some people are getting into fights inside the dungeons.

[Ibn]

The two most frequent reasons for requesting that UCM become legal have been:

- It is too hard to catch up to high-level players, so post-chain players will never be able to complete.

and

- Having dungeons where people UCM is fun because it means we can attack those dungeons, it's something to fight for or try and defend.

We are not going to allow UCM, so we introduced the Mausoleums to try and address these two requests.

Obviously the first one is only half-addressed at this point as you can't get to the true top plateaus through the Mausoleums. We've said all along that this would need to wait until after AC:TD.

With regards to the ramps, I see your point with regards to chasing people down when trying to kill them. It would not be too difficult or time-consuming to remove the ramps and alter the architecture of the Mausoleums for a future monthly event, this is definitely something we can do.

I'm not entirely sure that I understand the complaint. If I am reading this right, the "true" DTers are upset because bunch of o.O's have started new chars on the server and are powerleveling to 109? Is that correct? You are upset because there is new blood on the server and the characters are leveling too fast?

[MannyCalavera]

As it stands now, the system could use some tweaking, like making it something only usable by a fellow so people actually HAVE to fight over the exp and can't simply peace. If you make them much higher, however, I think it will be a huge mistake. MAYBE take them up to 126 or 130 or something. Taking them to 200+ would be a huge mistake IMHO and have the potential to run a lot of people off in the long run. They will get to 200 fast and quit. 130ish is decent and competable (that a word?), especially for almost free experience.

[Ibn]

130ish is decent and competable (that a word?), especially for almost free experience.

Is it? Frequently I've seen folks demanding we allow UCM because they are only effective 150 or so and thus can't compete with the chained effective 200+ characters.

I'm not arguing with you, I'm just trying to get clarification. Pinning things down in the DT community is a challenge -- for any given "fact" someone else will claim the exact opposite. And then insult your family history. :)

[MannyCalavera]

Well, I think it is. As expensive as it gets to raise skills, there is a difference, but it's not HUGE. I think if you guys want to give everyone a lvl 200+, you might as well just hand them over and get people out of these carebear dungeons and out fighting and hunting. I have taken my noob to them several times and it's usually 20-30 who have declared peace. Then, if anyone dares fight, they get 20 hollows on them ;)

Especially, if higher levels are added, they need to be limited somehow so people can't peace and have to fight for the exp. Make them only usable by one person every five minutes. Course this would only work if you can adjust the exp based on the size of the fellowship. Is this possible?

[EtG]

Let me explain it for you: Before levers, Darktide had nothing to fight over. People were getting banned left & right so leveling was impossible.

Population dropping.

Yes, now we have more people on the server. But, whereas UCM dungeons were something to contest over, to fight for, to SECURE, exp dungeons are "Hey if you don't peace this coalition of guilds with 5 full fellowships is going to kill you". The fighting is because it's the novelty affect - new dungeon, 'course you're going to fight for a bit for fun. Even now most of the time I go into any of the dungeons theres peacing.

I don't care if we get people form other servers on our server, but I DON'T want people given a "free ride", Darktide is MEANT to be a harsh existence, meant to be challenging, you're giving ppl a free trip to 109 without any hard work or any PvP experience, all they need to know how to do is type "Peace!".

With UCM dungeons it wouldn't be a lot of people just migrating over from carebear servers, it would be a lot of the old Darktiders coming back - the ones you chased away when you promised to listen to DT more, then when we collectively asked for barriers to be taken down you did nothing.

UCM'ing is not as easy as you might think - it's not just press start & you're level 200! You have to fight for your spot, kill people so EFFECTIVELY that it's a safe spot.

Yes, people need a way to catch up, but the old chain/allegiance system or UCM'ing would work perfectly. I've mentioned it before - you seem so anti against UCM & the chains that you're willing to do anything just to come up with an alternative. Don't like UCM & Chains? Fine, settle for the next best idea, make every monsters worth 2x or 10x the exp they are now. Don't like that idea either? Then make Player vs Player kills worth exp, like 500k per kill. Don't like that idea, then as a LAST RESORT modify the exp dungeons to make them promote fighting not peacing. & maybe something to stop mass guilds peacing as well.

Level wise to be able to compete, for a mage it's at least level 126.. though you won't have magic d (or enough for it to be useful), but you get enough war skill to be able to compete. Melees it would be 150 so you can at least max your strength skill for the damage. But, it's hard to pinpoint a level.. I'm a level 180ish mage, & the only guys I have trouble with are fully maxed out mages or melees IF they have full wards & 400+ health + good magic d. It's frustrating hitting mages with 2 wars & watching them never die, even with a crit, & watching melees tank 3 wars without healing. *shrug* thats more of a balance thing, I'm getting off track.

IMO level 150 with skill should be able to kill anyone.

[MannyCalavera]

I could agree with 150. Try making two characters of the same type, IBN. One 130-150. One 200ish. The difference with most skills will be 15-20 at best. While these points definitely help, maybe it's more of a status thing or just not liking the idea of EVERYONE being 200+ with little effort.

[Darid]

The XP lever dungeons are a great idea, it brought more people to DT.

The peacing that is occurring is just part of an age old battle on DT. People go there and peace, and people go there and PK, so there are both anti's and PK's and as usual PK's are loners.

There is something to fight over, fight for the right to be in the dungeon itself to get your xp. Some people don't wanna fight, some people don't want to roll a newb, but they have a problem with more people on DT?

UCM dungeons aren't really a thing to fight over anymore, ever since the nerf, there have been auto log off programs. You raid there dungeon they log, re log in 15 minutes later, if your still there they log off, log on another character and organize a way to boot your ass from the dungeon.

THe annoyance factor is next to nothing, you expect it, no point in legalizing UCM anymore since envoys dont even roll through anything on DT unless you report them. 90% of dt will not report a UCM, they would rather kill it or attempt to camp it.

New people are on DT, I have had friends from 0.o who would never have even stayed on DT, are now in there 100's and having fun.

As for base levels, that is arguable, for a melee its 170. At level 170 a skilled melee can take out anyone(this was pre UA and weeping nerf).

For a mage its 130.

Thx for the levers.

[Televangelist]

I'm not entirely sure that I understand the complaint. If I am reading this right, the "true" DTers are upset because bunch of o.O's have started new chars on the server and are powerleveling to 109? Is that correct? You are upset because there is new blood on the server and the characters are leveling too fast?

While you hear people bash the lever-users from white servers as 'not true Darktiders' and probably (rightly) conclude that it's mostly just bravado, there is a kernel of truth to what they're trying to say. The levers give such an incentive to 'peace' one another that through their experience on darktide, a lot of these new lever-users will have a very different mindset than the 'traditional' Darktide, loot-your-stuff-just-to-drop-it-in-the-lifestone-and-make-you-cry players. Whether this is good or bad is open to debate, but it's very much a change. (Just as, with the advent of mansions after ACDM and 'safe zones' existing for the very first time on Darktide, there was a big influx of new DT'ers who didn't accept the fundamental DT maxim that you can be attacked anywhere, anytime -- and many still feel the server's overall quality suffered from that, too.)

[EtG]

Darid has played majority of his life on carebear servers, should his opinion really count for a Darktiders opinion?
"I have had friends from 0.o who would never have even stayed on DT, are now in there 100's and having fun."

We don't want the people who couldn't cut it till the levers. What Darktider has ever said they want an easy way for people to begin on the server? Wasn't the complaint that without UCM & Chains you can't catch the level 200 people?

Having a way to catch the high levels is not enough, there needs to be a CHALLENGE to it, as I said, not just being able to type "Peace!" & voila, instant 109.

What you're asking Darid is for people to "make up a purpose", fight for the right? Talk about cliche, people fight for REASONS on Darktide, not made up reasons - if that were the case we could organise town defense & fighting for lifestones like the old days. But we can't.

[Caffeine]

So basically they polled a bunch of carebears who were excited about the idea? (hrmm that sounds wrong in the worst possible way)

I love to say "I told you so" so here it is. I TOLD YOU SO!

Let's have a poll to fire Ibn and make me public relations for DT instead.

Dont mind me...im just here for the entertainment value.

[Dox]

I love the levers.
It is bringing new life to the server
more people are giving DT a try, and that is a good thing.

Lots of battles are going on in the levers
sometimes there are a ton of corpses ( I know I lost quite a bit in DI's some nights)
sometimes there isn't much fighting as only a few are there.
I made friends there talking to people whom I would never had the chance to meet.
Some already have + 126 lvl chars, so even old time DTers are using them and enjying them.
I even seen tinker mules in there.

There are some that don't like them or feel threaten or even cheated by them.
But you can always organize raids.
won't be long before guilds have chars right at the lvl edge (lvl 89 for example) just to control the dungeons for thier guild and friends

It's still early, the more organized guilds will be the ones to control them and fight over them.

Edit:
Let me add this as well
The lever dungeons are the reason I resubbed now and playing on DT now.
I was going to wait for expansion and play on a white server, if the expansion got decent player reviews.

[EtG]

Dox is the prime example of a player we don't want. "I even see tinker mules in there". WTF, yea DT is so harsh now even mules with no weapon skills can level to 109 in peace..

Thanks for proving my point Dox, obviously you aren't an old DT player coming back.

Again I'll say it, Turbine chased off all the old school DT'ers who came back when Turbine lied about listening to us, & we requested one thing, ONE THING, one VERY simple thing that EVERYONE on Darktide wanted & wouldn't affect carebear servers - HOUSING BARRIERS - did they deliver? No they didn't. So instead of trying to attract the old players (because they could, they just won't) they attract people like Dox bored of his 0.o. world but too lazy to fight for his right to exp on Darktide.

[Televangelist]

What Darktider has ever said they want an easy way for people to begin on the server?

Hi!

Wasn't the complaint that without UCM & Chains you can't catch the level 200 people?

I don't think so. I've been level 130 for 3 or 4 years now-ish, as best I remember? I can certainly compete.

Really, past level 100ish, you can compete to some meaningful degree or another.

[Dox]

Far as I know DT isn't an exsclusive server
this isn't a club, it's a business
You don't pay more than anyone else.
You pay 12.99 just as I do.
and what Turbine wants is more people playing.
Thats good business and good for the server.
Everyone was n00b at one point, including you

Those mules I see are players with 126 chars, just leveling thier mule
So you are in a very small minority that don't like the lever dungeon.
As other old timers are using the dungeons

People come and go in every Game, you can't keep the playerbase
turbine wants to attract players, you want to keep players away.
This is a good way for Turbine to increase revenue and to replace playes that have left for newer games.

You may not want new players, but turbine does.

The Pros far outwiegh the Cons.


Dox is the prime example of a player we don't want. "I even see tinker mules in there". WTF, yea DT is so harsh now even mules with no weapon skills can level to 109 in peace..

Thanks for proving my point Dox, obviously you aren't an old DT player coming back.

Again I'll say it, Turbine chased off all the old school DT'ers who came back when Turbine lied about listening to us, & we requested one thing, ONE THING, one VERY simple thing that EVERYONE on Darktide wanted & wouldn't affect carebear servers - HOUSING BARRIERS - did they deliver? No they didn't. So instead of trying to attract the old players (because they could, they just won't) they attract people like Dox bored of his 0.o. world but too lazy to fight for his right to exp on Darktide.

[minimafia]

Keep the levers at 109.

By level 109, people can hunt for them selves.




Ibn, THINK about what you added, XP LEVERS, this is now the JOKE of MMO's


Just make a hunting spot or two that is IMPOSSIBLE to UCM, and makes 100+ mil an hour at lvl 126+.

[ChildoftheKoRn]

Why not make it that if you kill x amount of players you get xamount more exp whether it doubles each time you kill someone then use the lever or just you get a % more added on, if people start macroeing that you can ban them to keep you guys (turbine) busy.

If they die they lose all the bonuses.

[Virindi Clown]

Ibn, you apparently missed it in the beginning when there would be 20 people standing in the lower level dungeons peacing.

That's done with now. They got their 100% free xp and have moved on.

The damage is done.

The problem is with the concept. It does not promote fighting. You were far better off joining the people peacing instead of making them all attack you because that was the ONLY way you would make xp. That aspect of it is very flawed.

DTers do not have a problem with new people coming in, regardless of where they come.

Most people who play DT and call themselves DTers started on other servers and possibly even played them for years. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

What a lot of people have a problem with is that this is basically a free ride at the lower levels, where you don't even need it. You can level up so ridiculously fast now that this wasn't really necessary. The ONLY problem with leveling, reasonably and legitimately being able to go beyond 126, remains completely unaddressed.

And you don't need xp levers to address that, either.

I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY don't understand why you don't just put in more VoD-like places. Why did you nerf VoD in the first place? That was one way to legitimately gain a lot of xp at higher levels. It had some problems, like how your xp rate would go down significantly if you didn't kill only certain monsters, but instead of fixing them, you COMPOUNDED them when you updated VoD by introducing more monsters that reduce your xp rate into the spawns of the only monsters that were worthwhile!

You say the xp levers were to address the problem of leveling quickly on DT. Well, what about the other servers? Their VoDs were nerfed too, weren't they? This is a problem with the game itself, not DT specifically. Since DT is a different server, there are some additional problems, not just special ones the other servers don't have at all.

Right now, every dungeon has been made "uber" for the level range it is directed at for people below about level 100. Beyond that, there really isn't much of anything.

The additonal problem this leads to on DT is that nothing is worthwhile to use, so nothing is worthwhile to fight over. When there are worthwhile hunting places, people actively playing go there to use them. Other people go to raid them. Other people come to fight the raiders. The process comes full circle and makes the server more active.

When something stuck out, like the Black Spawn Dens and Halls Of Metos back in the day, people used them, raided them, and defended them actively.

There is now NOTHING in the game like that. Xp levers do not address this problem.

[Que2]

Level 109 is not that high.

At level 109, you are still lower level then 80%+ of the population that plays. And by that I do not mean mules. Furthermore, most of the sub 100's you see are either new to DT, or they are a rerole and they have a much higher toon as there main.

As long as the levers stay they way they are and they do not add higher, I do not see how it even effects 80% or more of the population. Just makes it easer to get a rerole started.

If you are sub 126 then there are only a few reasons.

1. You don't really care about leveling anyways.

2. You have been playing less then 2 months.

3. You do not understand the game enough to level.

4. You only get to play 2 hrs a day and do not macro.



In short, the levers do nothing but help noobs and reroles. If they just do not add any higher level levers then I do not see the problem. Some of you just sound afraid to have a few extra level 100's running around. Pre-Lever patch, I hardly ever saw anyone sub 126. Since the patch, everyone is either makeing a rerole or starting on DT. I fail to see how this is a negitive thing for DT.

Basically, DO NOT ADD HIGHER LEVERS IN!!!!

[Darid]

Originally posted by ETG
Darid has played majority of his life on carebear servers, should his opinion really count for a Darktiders opinion?
Wrong I started on DT. My first level 20, 50, 100, 126 were all on DT. I do however play 0.o, its fun to PK there, it sharpens your skills, and its just fun to do.

You need to realize that the DT player base is the maximum 10% of the overall player base of AC.

[EtG]

Proof you're a carebear & obviously bias towards balancing lower levels:
http://img235.exs.cx/img235/4466/13th.jpg
http://img229.exs.cx/img229/6599/23gu.jpg
http://img227.exs.cx/img227/3328/39dy.jpg


Plus my brother fought you I heard, you weren't impressed with his cast you said previously right??

"have ye ever herd of such a thing as MMMMMMMMMMMMMM butterrrr? smooth to the touch and yellow in colourr says:
he /tell me
have ye ever herd of such a thing as MMMMMMMMMMMMMM butterrrr? smooth to the touch and yellow in colourr says:
says its important he needs to duel
have ye ever herd of such a thing as MMMMMMMMMMMMMM butterrrr? smooth to the touch and yellow in colourr says:
on etg
have ye ever herd of such a thing as MMMMMMMMMMMMMM butterrrr? smooth to the touch and yellow in colourr says:
im like lmfao
have ye ever herd of such a thing as MMMMMMMMMMMMMM butterrrr? smooth to the touch and yellow in colourr says:
tell him im not u etc
have ye ever herd of such a thing as MMMMMMMMMMMMMM butterrrr? smooth to the touch and yellow in colourr says:
then fight him on twk when running with comps
have ye ever herd of such a thing as MMMMMMMMMMMMMM butterrrr? smooth to the touch and yellow in colourr says:
hesucks so bad
I'm at work, you're at the beach, **** you says:
you killed him?
have ye ever herd of such a thing as MMMMMMMMMMMMMM butterrrr? smooth to the touch and yellow in colourr says:
yes
I'm at work, you're at the beach, **** you says:
lol"

[Darid]

I am seriously curious as to whether or not your on Acid.

I am one of the top ten melees in this game.

Why would I not want lower level PvP balanced? Lower level PvP balances, mean the system itself is balanced.

When vt opened and I was pvping at level 60 I realized its not balanced like it was on DT 4 years ago. A n00b mage could one hit my melee with the weeping wand. Or hit for all but 50-70hp, which with a harm or a streak your dead.

There is seriously something wrong with you IRL, like a chemical imbalance that has been wrong since birth, or maybe your an incest survivor, I don't know but your seriously fruity.

***Edit***
Your bro isn't that great, I was really rusty, and none of my **** was fastcasting. If you want to fight me again all you have to do is msg me.

[Virindi Clown]

Eh, I got one hit by mages quite a few times back in the day, and I wasn't running around on a newb. :confused:

[Darid]

Back in the day I was Life/UA/MagicD 100 str/foc/self, melee so I didn't have too run around barely being able to cast 6's in one school at 60.

Those were mostly temp concerns, and the Resist spec didn't hurt either.

However being one hit is not cool if your fully buffed with 7's, especially by someone your level. That isn't balance, just like no one noticed how much a 20-40ish hollow is unbalanced at level 30. Or a 150 mod hollow bow is at 25.

These are things that need to be addressed, with the expansion coming out, and new players coming to the game.

[Virindi Clown]

It's not really a problem with the low level range. It's a problem with PvP damage being screwed up, period.

[EtG]

Your own monarch laughed that you thought you were one of the top 10 melees in the game ROFL

You died, displaying a pathetic play style, to my brother while he was running 3 clients on his ISDN connection, that basically sucks even more than most Aussie connections (I'm on ADSL).

I have proof you have played more 0.o. than Darktide, you admit it yourself talking about all your high level carebears!

Rofl, I'm on acid? Take a look in the mirror, you've been lying about anything you can to make your argument stronger & I smashed it by discovering the truth.

[Darid]

Marshal isnt in BRN anymore.

I guess if you played you would know that.

As to how I play on a mage, I was trying to just straight FC at him, but none of my **** was fastcasting, I don't know why, but I said I was rusty, and your brother even admitted to me he knew I was better than that.

I play 0.o but I have played DT far more hours than i have played 0.o, which once again doesnt matter, until the majority of the pvp happens on DT which it doesn't.

Goto Ayan or marketplace at peak time on every white server(exception is vt), count the people there then run through every recall you have on DT and start counting.

[EtG]

"Marshal isnt in BRN anymore.
I guess if you played you would know that."

Those screenshots were taken when he was co-leader of BRN. One week is that big of a deal? Please, he knows you, he knows you suck & he also knows you've played the majority of your life on o.O.

"As to how I play on a mage, I was trying to just straight FC at him, but none of my **** was fastcasting, I don't know why, but I said I was rusty, and your brother even admitted to me he knew I was better than that."

Err obviously you know nothing about mage PvP. Straight FC at him? wtf rofl you sound like an outpost newb. He told me you sucked. I even posted what he said about you. So you're not a terrible PK, you're below average? WOW.

"I play 0.o but I have played DT far more hours than i have played 0.o, which once again doesnt matter, until the majority of the pvp happens on DT which it doesn't."

From everything I've heard about you, how much you like levers, & how little you know about PvP, I think you're straight out lying.

"Goto Ayan or marketplace at peak time on every white server(exception is vt), count the people there then run through every recall you have on DT and start counting."

Already said along these lines before, I played War on WE for a short period of time. PvP is dead there, I saw a total of 2 red PKs & most people who were pink were mucking around. There was not even anyone to fight a lot of the times I logged in, at Aphus, Sith, Ayan, MP or Candeth.


Look honestly I don't really care much about you, you've proven you're a liar & that means anything you say in the future is suspect. Your opinion does NOT count as a Darktiders, so don't try to play yourself off as one. You play carebear mainly = you're a carebear. Stop offering your opinion on stuff that concerns DT - we don't care about balance for your o.O. duels, which is what you've obviously been pushing for saying melees aren't balanced 1v1. SCREW 1V1 DUELING. Fix group pvp balance.

[Darid]

Already said along these lines before, I played War on WE for a short period of time. PvP is dead there, I saw a total of 2 red PKs & most people who were pink were mucking around. There was not even anyone to fight a lot of the times I logged in, at Aphus, Sith, Ayan, MP or Candeth.

The majority 99% of the pk on white servers are Pink.

Look honestly I don't really care much about you, you've proven you're a liar & that means anything you say in the future is suspect. Your opinion does NOT count as a Darktiders, so don't try to play yourself off as one. You play carebear mainly = you're a carebear. Stop offering your opinion on stuff that concerns DT - we don't care about balance for your o.O. duels, which is what you've obviously been pushing for saying melees aren't balanced 1v1. SCREW 1V1 DUELING. Fix group pvp balance
How am I a liar?

Just curious.

I have not had no other person besides you, post something below mine saying I am wrong. You have had this happen over 10x.

If what I say is suspect then your like the grand dragon puuba at a ku klux klan rally, has all us rational people going, "wha?".

[TRuthSeer]

Thx for the direct attention to our server (DT), this was actually implemented faster then I would have anticipated since it is just for our lone server.

All ideas, no matter how well thought out, are going to be exploited as much as possible for it is in many a gamers nature..... using the old addage "the shortest path between two points is a straight line", people will always be trying to take that short path. Personally, I would like things to be like they were before nodrop items and mansion barriers myself, but if we cannot move back lets move forward (tho we can still get rid of barriers already :cool: )

For the most part, I havn't read anything so far that makes these new levers a 'bad' idea. UCM ban is not going to be lifted and the old exp chains are gone, some people will just not let that go.

Sure, when ANY major guild takes over a lever dung and there isn't a sufficient opposing force to stop them, there is going to be alot of people 'peacing', but that is true with over half the dungeons in the game right now. Every 'large' guild on DT has had some people ALWAYS lvling in complete peace.... this is not limited to the new dungeons.

When was the last time you seen 20-30 people together at once fighting for the same place on DT?
There are sooo many dungeons (and lvl restricted dungeons) to lvl in that it is easy to lvl forever (even fellow in mules) without ever seeing much action if any.
So now there are lever areas that ANYTIME of the day or night you log in there are people IN those dungeons ripe for the killing..... that can't recall there or even log out then back in.... and this is a bad thing?

The levers at the same time only address a couple of things and not the majority of problems on DT.
VClown and many others have illustrated/broke down many of our problems in different threads and my question about these new levers would be:
Did the hard work that was put into these new dungeons... in the end... take resources away from the devs working on some of our greater long term problems?

PS. I put 10+ hours a day this weekend into AC.....been more then a year since that has happened and as far as 'peacing' goes: I seen a full group holding off 3-5 strays and mostly standing around (in the under 69 dung's) at like 6 o clock in the morning on sunday.
Other then that there has been almost non stop fighting of fellowed groups + strays..... I really should out lvl the dung I am in into the next 70+ dungeon already, but have been having 2 much fun with all the pvp action.... which until this patch was scarce and far between....

[EtG]

"So now there are lever areas that ANYTIME of the day or night you log in there are people IN those dungeons ripe for the killing..... that can't recall there or even log out then back in.... and this is a bad thing?"

Oh, really? Guess what was happening in the levers the last 4 hours?

http://img199.exs.cx/img199/2585/p33n6pm.jpg

That's right, the novelty wears off & everyone goes back to UCM'ing. There's not POINT to the levers, you fight & you make bad exp. You don't fight & you're bored. You have to be AT the computer to do it (until someone writes a macro for it).

Seriously, stupidest idea *ever*.

[Ophar Kabitaki]

All I can say is..yup..told ya so. Same thing happened on DT as would happen on white servers..peace and use the levers. Everyone said no..people play DT to fight other players. They don't fight until competitive..so everyone peaces the levers to reach the levels where they feel comfortable AND competitive. They should slap them onto every server as PK-only and leave em there. And leave them at the level they are at. 109 should be plenty of a jump start for any new players.

[Zinh The Noble]

Screw this game. Obviously IBN doesn't seem to have a problem giving people a free ride to lvl 109. It pisses me of knowing I have invested the last 4 years playing this game getting my characters where they are and obtaining the wealth they have. Now we are given some stupid lever that people use to get to lvl 109 in a week and most likely they will add 126+ levers meaning I should have just waited 4 years to play...it's all a waste.

I truly hate the Turbine team. They are completely retarded and don't take anything into consideration when making changes. All they do is add what they think will work for the moment not looking at any ramnifications. I worked hard for what I have...now some little ashat noob that comes here gets a free ride to 109 pulling a monkey lever. What has this game come to? You're all fired.

[Wide Camel]

I agree. I have worked hard for my levels to. If they take this past lev 109 then DT will be ruined.

[vicster]

yeah i go whit it, i reactivatet my account 5 days ago BUT... it was not becouse of XP LEVERS it was for the feeling but if you confirm the fact that you didn want me back and i wasted my time the last 4 years i played before i quittet then why shoulden i just quit again ???? go questing Right and get killed by 9 man fellow that reached 109+ in a week that i used a year on great invetation thanks you once again prove careless to your loyal DT players.

(no english is not my primary language)

best regards
vicster

[Virindi Clown]

I'll bet that really does piss off people who didn't already have level 126 chars, but around 100. Gd, you invest all of that to hit the point where it becomes difficult to level, then all of a sudden an army of people brand new to the server are the same level as you. :eek:

That really did come out bad. It made the lower levels, which are already a joke, into a love fest, the mid levels way easier, which really doesn't hurt that much, but then it just stops so that the people who had previously done the work are cheated, and then it doesn't address the actual problem area with leveling. :confused:

[TRuthSeer]

What you are saying is both true and at the same time I feel it is not entirely so. Of course there are people that will be very upset with there actual hard earned chars..... How many of those chars are there now? Really? How many chars are still around that lvl'd there chars without UCM and Chains? Truthfully now?

Other then playing on green beta server (a white server) for a week and then Black beta (pk) I have never been anywhere but on DT (why only play half a game on a white server?).
Right now I have a lvl 111 char that I lvl'd by hand, no UCMing, no chains, just good old lvling.... happens to be my oldest char also born 2 NOV 99. The point of it is I was furious when chaining and UCM ran rampant and everyone who didn't whore themselves out got left in the dust. Hordes of people (it was mostly Blood and TLS at the time) all became stupidly high lvl chars without ANY or little effort (rem pumping UCM'd exp thru a chain wasn't banned then). Yes I was mad but eventually got over it and rolled a new char on my 2nd account and jumped on the bandwagon and now have a char that not only passed my main but I have put almost no time into the char AT ALL. It was both a test and a means of defense. I still don't play the char much as I have better memories with the one I 'earned'.
UCMing got banned and Exp Chains got revamped, but the damage is already done. Majority of the server is now 126+, most of whom did almost no work in the leveling process.... its understandable there was no need to work for what you could get free. Now we have a lever system for those that wish to semi catch up to the rest of us. They don't get free gear and they don't get PVP experience from this process so it should not be as infuriating any more then all the 100's of people who have gotten free rides in the past.

[TRuthSeer]

At the same time, the levers in advertantly brought back a very old piece of DT.... a really really old part of it. If only for a brief moment....

When was the last time you fought groups of people on DT WITHOUT Nodrop gear, Hollows, Phantoms, Weepings, Gems, Potion Chugging, Instant UCM logout, lvl 7 spells? Can you even remember that time? Everyon talks about DT good old days but refuses to actually do it. Don't understand? Let me explain:

DT opened. Mercs and a few other (like G) exploited tuskers and lvl'd to 20+ before anyone was even in there low teens. HUGE battles insued and it took pure skill to stop the higher lvls... there was no LS protection... you could not just die but you could die until you lost your BACKPACK. You didn't venture to nanto alone for OG would come out of nowhere to eat you. Bane? whats that? Archers pwn'd.

Fast foward. Atlans, Shadowarmor, LS protection, Barriers, Movement fizzle, Hollows, weepings, more exploits and UCM + Chains, blah blah blah whos got the highest lvl'd chained chars and the best gear and can exploit the most?ever so slowly down the toilet pvp becomes.....

Levers came out. At first, we rushed there with a mid lvl chars (only have one the rest are high lvl) and the place was either empty or a few people standing there sheepishly, so I came to the forums and read about all the low lvl noobs peacing like stupid old AB days.... Damn I hated that CB place. But it made sense, Rerolls and Noobs wouldn't be high enough to be in the higher dungeons just yet.
So I took the initiave and grabbed a couple old AC PVP friends, activated there accounts for em and had a LAN party. Rerolled some chars lvl'd em up silly fast and took on the sheeps. Oh yes hordes of noobs peacing....... ppppeeeeeerrrfffeeeecccttt just as I had hoped.
We didn't bring our no drop gear, or went and got some hollows, or even bothered to break out tinkered gear... lets go back... back to the old days and do it old school style.
Don't get me wrong I took the proper precautions and went and bought all the spells and regs we would need and walked in and got into position.....

When was the last time you fought with rings and IMP/VUNL'd using regular weps like the old days? Holy Crap it turned out better then we had plan'd. Sure after the first dungeon it became a little more standard with hollows and phantoms and rerolls breaking out there tinkered gear... but the death match is still on... even now... At least in the under 69 dungeons...

Yes this was only short term fun and doesn't address many long term problems of DT, but this patch has given more life to DT then it has taken.

Yes it burns to have all your hard work passed up by these levers, but I got over that a LOOOOONG time ago when Blood and TLS formed UCM Chains and did the SAME EXACT THING to everyone else. At least now you have something to fight and know where they are. No instant UCM loggers either.

Take a moment, quit patting your lvl 200 decked out char on the back, make a reroll and go raise some hell. If YOU allow CB's to lvl there in peace that is on YOU not them for that is there sheepish nature.

PS. I havn't mentioned the ramps that shouldn't even be there because IBN already addressed that it will be easy to fix :cool:

[Que2]

Sorry, 109 is aprox 2 billion XP. And almost everyone on this thread has logged into 2 billion XP for free. Many of you have made reroles in rerole chains and basically Logged into a level 126.

Not many if any of you worked "Hard" to get the toon you have.

[Virindi Clown]

I'm not complaining about myself being cheated. No one with a level 126+ char is really complaining that I know of.

However, the people playing now who have toughed it out without xp chains or macros really did get cheated.

Maybe that wouldn't be a big deal, but they gain NOTHING because the xp levers do not address the real issue with gaining xp. Their work becomes almost meaningless, as they gain no signicant advantage for it.

If you want to bring macroing and chaining into it, then why would the levers take people through the range where you DON'T need to macro or have been in an xp chain to hit, but not even touch the range where you COULD NOT POSSIBLY have not macroed and chained with macroers to hit?

It all just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

[Sizz-Lorr!]

I am of the opinion that levers have if anything given us more ppl to fight. Chars under lvl 20 dont drop anything, so killing them for crappy armor and less than 10k pyreals is not worth the effort. all of em are almost guaranteed 1 hit on mid power for a sword char and a 1 hit for a lvl 6 war from a rend wand. not all that entertaining imo.

a lvl 109 fresh outta levers is interesting tho. mages can cast 7's so they have a chance. meeles and archers are to the point of being effective in groups or with a mage to vuln. A horde of sub 126's who have to recomp macros will eventually come out of their holes and leave the monotony of whatever mob they kill for hours on end, and the battles will come.

[EtG]

Free exp? I never heard of a Blood chain without passup, except for cores & admins.

"Really? How many chars are still around that lvl'd there chars without UCM and Chains?"

You say that like UCM'ing & Chains took no work. ROFL, to get a good chain spot you had to UCM every hour of the day. UCM'ing wasn't easy either, someone had to defend you know.

UCM took a hell of a lot more work & added spice to the game, than levers ever will.

[Darid]

Yes you did have to work and defend in blood chains, at least I had too.

But the damage has already been done to that old school system because why defend when I can macro some obscure dungeon solo for 5m xp/hour and have an auto log program log me off when anyone comes by?

I mean seriously, there are more dungeons on DT than people. Even 40+ olthoi armor hive can net u 4-6m/hour+salvage with NO ONE messing with you.

With an auto log off program easy to write(source for miniPK is easy to get), you can't expect it to absolutely be like it was in the old days at all.

[Zinh The Noble]

You guys are missing the point here.

The point is they added a way to get xp w/o doing anything other than talking to an npc/statue and at a rate where you can lvl to 109 in a week if not less. They basically just alienated the whole server who actually had to do something to get their levels where it is UCM/Hunting/Chaining or whatever. Point is those things take a lot of time compared to this. Hell not everyone had a leet chain or a leet macro spot.

Turbine fixed nothing and after a month goes by you will understand just how pissed everyone will be when they realize all the hard work they did was for nothing. It's like waiting in line for something and the guy way in the back cuts in like 5 people behind you...wouldn't that piss you off if that was considered ok, or maybe he cuts in front of you (if you don't have a character over 109 for example). Do you see the point now? Has UCM stopped? Do we actually fight over these stupid dungeons? Come on...what have they really fixed? NOTHING!! AS USUAL...they just create more problems.

IBN says they wanted to give us something to fight for...HELL IF HE HAD A BRAIN he would listen to all of DT when we have been saying to remove housing or remove barriers...to make LSs important again. YOU want to see massive fights? HELL if you do this you will see massive fights at lifestones again like the AB wars.. Towns will be important. THIS LEVER IDEA IS AN EFFING JOKE of a solution!!

peace..

[Darid]

What is the point, that because they didn't get 40vp 3x, lose there matty coat and have to wait a month to get a new one, trade everything but there soul for motes.

THat was our experience and it separated us as players, its a loss to them not to have had that experience but it will never happen again.

Lets move forward, lets let people who have played on 0.o for 5 years, move to DT level to 109 and CONTRIBUTE something new. Even more di's would be acceptable.

[Shon_Tsu]

Couldnt care less how hard I had it or how easy they have it. Give them easy levels and get them out fighting. Majority of people on DT these days are O.o anyway, regardless of where they came from or how long they've been here.

Hell, I want the levers to go higher, get them to 150 so we have a challenge from them.

[Zinh The Noble]

You're all stupid noobs. This game is getting dumbed down and you don't even care. Oh well I'm out.

[Shon_Tsu]

And you're just pissed that your "hard work" is being caught up on by people more easily. I'd mention something about wanting to own it up by not finding anyone else on the server, but since you never come out and raid I guess you'll be stuck in your macro hole as normal regardless of how many people are on the server.

Worried all these 109s are going to come kill you?

Dumbed down? I can list half a dozen 4-5 mill p/h spots that never have traffic. Thats 100 mill per day without needing to defend it. Most guilds currently on DT have dungeons ranging from 10-20 mill p/h they macro with zero to minimum defense required. A number of people are holding down 20+ mill p/h dungeons with only sporatic defence, or with the backing of their whole guild. Where exactly is the intelligence and skill going into that? How much more dumbed down can you get than recalling to a dungeon, hitting start, going away for 20 hours. Recomp and sell once per day, mule your salvage and loot. Whole lotta skill/effort gone into that. Worried about Pks? Use a pklogoff plugin, macro in complete safety. Dont want to hurt your xp too badly, use a script to log you back on again. Only skill in either of those is coding them and 99% of people use something someone else wrote.

Give them their levels, get them out fighting. At worst they'll be stuck in some dungeon somewhere like all the Zhin the Nobles who complain about the game being dumbed down.

[EtG]

You're both idiots Shon & Darid. You talk as if you are Darktiders, but one of you have played more o.O. than DT, & the other is in Solar Shadow - no one in that monarch has played more than 3 years I believe, & they are all newbs without skills anyway (I've offered before, any SS or TLS who wants to duel for 100 plats on my half, versus your DI's is welcome to challenge me - I haven't lost one of the fights yet).

Sad thing is Ibn might listen to you. Now I know after reading these forums when everyone says, when Turbine impliment something like debuffable BP's, WTF did that come from> & Ibn says you asked for it - it's idiots like you guys pretending to be Darktiders.

Darktiders (i.e. not you) want more people, YES, but there are 10 other GREAT ways to attract THE RIGHT KIND OF PLAYERS, without scaring off the existing player base as well. There are 100 other decent ideas other than levers as well.

Levers-are-not-what-Darktiders-want
Levers-are-CRAP

[Shon_Tsu]

And I've told you before, msg me and we'll fight ETG. Yet to receive a tell. I believe Darid has made the same offer, best you could do was send your brother. Funny how whenever the heat comes on suddenly you turn to your brother for examples. I dont know about Darid, but I've been on DT over 3 years, and you're in no position to talk about coming from O.o originally. I'm still trying to work out your "I'm a hardcore DTer" approach.
" WTF did that come from> & Ibn says you asked for it - it's idiots like you guys pretending to be Darktiders."
You're on crack dude. Now you're just making **** up.

"Darktiders (i.e. not you) want more people, YES, but there are 10 other GREAT ways to attract THE RIGHT KIND OF PLAYERS, without scaring off the existing player base as well. There are 100 other decent ideas other than levers as well."

Lol, ok, start listing ETG. Lets see your 10 ways to attract the right kind of players and 100 decent ideas other than levers to level them up.

Oh, and make sure they fit in with the current Tech since that was one of the reasons behind going with levers.



As for your constant comments about skill, who the hell cares. You refuse to group fight, that automatically should rule you out of any conversation on group PvP since you dont have experience. Some of the best 1v1ers around are from O.o, do they know whats best for Darktide? The people who have a right to comment on Darktide are those who play regularly and who the decisions affect. Last I looked, that aint you. Noone could give a **** how good you are 1v1, its irrelevant to the conversation, and a pisspoor way to try to justify your position.

[EtG]

10 Great Ideas to attract old players, keep current players happy & hopefully some new Blood:
1. Remove all housing barriers
2. Allow UCM on Darktide
3. Halve major & minor wards effectiveness
4. Much as I hate to say it, but put a level cap on some lower level dungeons... like Tusker pits, don't allow anyone over 120 or something.
5. Remove weeping weapons, or nerf them, make tinkering weapons "the thing" to use in PvP - but make sure damage does NOT go down
6. VC's idea about melee damage - full power more damage, low power less damage
7. Nerf 3/4 of the high exp dungeons - make the good ones have more fighting over them
8. Remove movement fizzle - perhaps leave stam penalty in to lessen the effects of God moding
9. Log off timer of 15-30 seconds
10. Perma ban all HoS / SS allegiance members accounts



"And I've told you before, msg me and we'll fight ETG. Yet to receive a tell. I believe Darid has made the same offer, best you could do was send your brother. Funny how whenever the heat comes on suddenly you turn to your brother for examples. I dont know about Darid, but I've been on DT over 3 years, and you're in no position to talk about coming from O.o originally. I'm still trying to work out your "I'm a hardcore DTer" approach.
" WTF did that come from> & Ibn says you asked for it - it's idiots like you guys pretending to be Darktiders."
You're on crack dude. Now you're just making **** up.

"Lol, ok, start listing ETG. Lets see your 10 ways to attract the right kind of players and 100 decent ideas other than levers to level them up."

the 100 was an exaggeration.

"Oh, and make sure they fit in with the current Tech since that was one of the reasons behind going with levers."

What's that mean, you mean what Turbine classify as Justified Resources?


"As for your constant comments about skill, who the hell cares. You refuse to group fight, that automatically should rule you out of any conversation on group PvP since you dont have experience."

I stopped group fighting a few months ago, when I'd already stopped actively playing. Group fights aren't that anymore, they are ganks. Waste of time, no use fighting. If I have 0% chance of winning, why fight? I should hope all my enemies lag out? I've got a lot more group fighting experience than you ganker.

"Some of the best 1v1ers around are from O.o, do they know whats best for Darktide? The people who have a right to comment on Darktide are those who play regularly and who the decisions affect. Last I looked, that aint you."

I exclusively play Darktide. I have for the past umm quite a few years. So has my brother. My ideas & thoughts much more accurately represent Darktiders views than you. Solar Shadow? Seriously your whole guild is a joke, just as bad as Adnan or TLS or Mad Taz. All of you (no exception) are ganking newbs, who press delete & go take a sandwich & watch people die in circled drops. Nothin wrong with all that except it doesn't take skill like it used to (well apart from the circled drops, they always sucked). I AM playing atm btw.

"Noone could give a **** how good you are 1v1, its irrelevant to the conversation, and a pisspoor way to try to justify your position."

Not irrelevant. Not the most important thing, but if you're crap at PvPing but act as if you aren't.... I'll give you a tell next time I'm on & see how we go anyway.

[Shon_Tsu]

I count 2 that might attract new players.

2. Allow UCM on Darktide
4. Much as I hate to say it, but put a level cap on some lower level dungeons... like Tusker pits, don't allow anyone over 120 or something.

Some of the others are good and might win back old players, however some of them would make it less likely new people would join. Some of them would result in less people playing. Others:


Good for current, get old players to return"
1. Remove all housing barriers
3. Halve major & minor wards effectiveness
5. Remove weeping weapons, or nerf them, make tinkering weapons "the thing" to use in PvP - but make sure damage does NOT go down
6. VC's idea about melee damage - full power more damage, low power less damage

This one would win some people back but would risk losing exising people, I'd prefer to keep current dungeons and add new better ones to fight over.
7. Nerf 3/4 of the high exp dungeons - make the good ones have more fighting over them

This would drive most melees and archers off the server, few people might return for it, but not many
8. Remove movement fizzle - perhaps leave stam penalty in to lessen the effects of God moding

Done, everyone hated it, imagine muling (especially without housing borders) if you have a 30 second logout timer. A combat logout timer would be nice though, might win some people back, doubt it would attract new ones.
9. Log off timer of 15-30 seconds

Very funny.
10. Perma ban all HoS / SS allegiance members accounts

"What's that mean, you mean what Turbine classify as Justified Resources?"

No, it means they could implement Levers with basically art changes, placing items in world, setting values on items, etc. No coding changes were neccessary. They wouldnt give us anything that required tech changes.


"I stopped group fighting a few months ago, when I'd already stopped actively playing. Group fights aren't that anymore, they are ganks. Waste of time, no use fighting. If I have 0% chance of winning, why fight? I should hope all my enemies lag out? I've got a lot more group fighting experience than you ganker."

You stopped group fighting a lot longer ago than that. Ganks happen yes, 9v1 is a gank. 9v9 is a group fight and is still great fun. 9 melees in a fellow will be ripped apart by an evenly spread fellowship. The majority of my group fights are against odds, and I spend a fair amount of time solo. When you decided you know how I play I dont know, I've seen you like 4 times ig, and to you everyone not solo must be a ganker.


"I exclusively play Darktide. I have for the past umm quite a few years. So has my brother. My ideas & thoughts much more accurately represent Darktiders views than you. Solar Shadow? Seriously your whole guild is a joke, just as bad as Adnan or TLS or Mad Taz. All of you (no exception) are ganking newbs, who press delete & go take a sandwich & watch people die in circled drops. Nothin wrong with all that except it doesn't take skill like it used to (well apart from the circled drops, they always sucked). I AM playing atm btw."

And, so do I. Havnt played another world for about 4 years now. I've played the gamit from anti through to basically RPK. I've spent the majority of that time Solo due to timezones (never once been in a guild with another aussie), but have plenty of experience in groups. I think I've circled a drop once in the last month. Whats your point? You only 1v1, whereas I 1v1 and group fight. Who has the better outlook on DT as a whole?


"Not irrelevant. Not the most important thing, but if you're crap at PvPing but act as if you aren't.... I'll give you a tell next time I'm on & see how we go anyway."

Unlike you I dont pretend to be better than I am. I'm decent 1v1 and one of the best group melees around. Thats not my opinion, thats been said by my enemies as well as my friends. I'd say I'm top 30% of melees solo, and thats fine with me, its enough to get more kills than not and doesnt require putting time into perfecting my skill or needing to hunt for uber equipment.

You dissed Sopron as being a noob in the other thread. I'm almost sure he's been on DT longer than you, definatly longer than 4 years. The fact he's level 100 doesnt change that. His opinion matters even if people like you and I can kill him easily. He's still fought the best and the worst on the server for 4 years now and fought them solo and in groups. His skill level and his char level is irrelevant to the experience he can bring to the table.

[EtG]

"They wouldnt give us anything that required tech changes."

I'm stating changes for a perfect world, not for a 5 year old game with limited resources.


"You stopped group fighting a lot longer ago than that."

Nope. However, I never would fight 9v1 in the last 2 years, wtf are you stupid? which is usually when you would see me, since all SS does is gank insane odds & refuse fair fights.

"9v9 is a group fight and is still great fun."

Rofl \, new age group fighting hasnt got ISHT on old school, you are such a newschool carebear if you believe it does.


"I spend a fair amount of time solo."

Not if you're in SS


"Unlike you I dont pretend to be better than I am. I'm decent 1v1 and one of the best group melees around. Thats not my opinion, thats been said by my enemies as well as my friends. I'd say I'm top 30% of melees solo, and thats fine with me, its enough to get more kills than not and doesnt require putting time into perfecting my skill or needing to hunt for uber equipment."

I am always willing to back my mouth up, unlike you & darid, he got owned against my brother & cried excuses. You'll do the same.

"You dissed Sopron as being a noob in the other thread. I'm almost sure he's been on DT longer than you, definatly longer than 4 years. The fact he's level 100 doesnt change that. His opinion matters even if people like you and I can kill him easily He's still fought the best and the worst on the server for 4 years now and fought them solo and in groups. His skill level and his char level is irrelevant to the experience he can bring to the table"

nah not really, he's missed a lot of the fighting he would have seen higher. Not to mention, who plays for 4+ years & is level 100? Plays DT primarily? Sorry, he's lying. Don't be so naive & take everyone at face value. Take yourself for example, it was 3 years before, now its 4? The best liars are the ones with great memories.

[Shon_Tsu]

Read Etg. I said I'd been on DT for more than 3 years, and I said I hadnt played on another world for 4 years. Both statements are true. Hmm, I'll go find the day I started Shon Tsu (from which I never went back to O.o). Started Jan 02, hadnt played AC for about 6 months before then, so if you want a more accurate count I havnt played O.o for around 3 years, 8 months, give or take a month or so.


"I am always willing to back my mouth up, unlike you & darid, he got owned against my brother & cried excuses. You'll do the same."

Last time you challenged me was how long ago? Couple of months I'm guessing. I replied immediately telling you to msg me and I'd come fight you. Still no msg, so as far as I'm concerned all I've heard is talk so far. Oh, and theres you going to your brother again, is that who you're going to send to fight me too?


"nah not really, he's missed a lot of the fighting he would have seen higher. Not to mention, who plays for 4+ years & is level 100? Plays DT primarily? Sorry, he's lying. Don't be so naive & take everyone at face value. "

Sopron I trust implicity. I was in a guild with him for a few months and he's old school. Too oldschool in my opinion, which is why he's refused to ever macro and hence not levelled. However you can still find him hanging out in Sawato defending it from the RPKs if you drop by while he's around. Because he doesnt macro doesnt make what he says any less relevant. No he cant comment on High level PvP, but he can comment on low level PvP, on group PvP, on ideas to bring new players to the server, stuff like that.

""I spend a fair amount of time solo."

Not if you're in SS"

Once again you seem to think you know me. Delusional perhaps?

First thing I do when I log on is run through 4 or 5 macro spots either trying to kill targets or ensuring our macroes are fine. Then I'll ask in allegiance what everyone else is doing, if anyones bored I invite them to join me, otherwise I head out solo for a buff or two. Sometimes that results in a full fellow running around, sometimes it means I hit the hotspots solo and jump into the fights alone. Talk all you want, but theres plenty of people, even targets, who'll tell you they find me solo raiding a fair bit.


Oh, and I dont do excuses. Not once has anyone heard me complain about Lag, or locking up, or suchlike. Pity the same cant be said about you eh? The only comment I make about my ability is that I suck with my wand out and freely admit that. Anything else is just the way it goes, some people are better than me, some people arent, and sometimes **** just happens.

"I'm stating changes for a perfect world, not for a 5 year old game with limited resources."

Oh well, I guess we'll just sit back and wait for this perfect world to come along then.

[EtG]

"Read Etg. I said I'd been on DT for more than 3 years, and I said I hadnt played on another world for 4 years. Both statements are true. Hmm, I'll go find the day I started Shon Tsu (from which I never went back to O.o). Started Jan 02, hadnt played AC for about 6 months before then, so if you want a more accurate count I havnt played O.o for around 3 years, 8 months, give or take a month or so."

Alright, I made a mistake, didn't bother checking & went from memory. I've still been playing & PKing longer than you.


"Last time you challenged me was how long ago? Couple of months I'm guessing. I replied immediately telling you to msg me and I'd come fight you. Still no msg, so as far as I'm concerned all I've heard is talk so far. Oh, and theres you going to your brother again, is that who you're going to send to fight me too?"

I wasn't playing then, no accounts subbed, atm I play limited hours but I'll give you a tell asap. Going to my brother again? What do you mean again? Darid @tell'ed my character, that my brother was playing. My brother killed him. I wasn't even home at the time.

"Sopron I trust implicity. I was in a guild with him for a few months and he's old school. Too oldschool in my opinion, which is why he's refused to ever macro and hence not levelled."

You refuse to macro & you're old school? lol, before the first person even hit 126 there were private drain macros for the AE quest in that room with the golems. Macroing itself is old school. If you're against macroing morally, you're a little weird - morals that strong over a game? hmmmm...

"No he cant comment on High level PvP, but he can comment on low level PvP, on group PvP, on ideas to bring new players to the server, stuff like that."

Balance PvP for lower levels & you completely skew high level PvP.

"First thing I do when I log on is run through 4 or 5 macro spots either trying to kill targets or ensuring our macroes are fine. Then I'll ask in allegiance what everyone else is doing, if anyones bored I invite them to join me, otherwise I head out solo for a buff or two. Sometimes that results in a full fellow running around, sometimes it means I hit the hotspots solo and jump into the fights alone. Talk all you want, but theres plenty of people, even targets, who'll tell you they find me solo raiding a fair bit."

You might be the exception to the "All SS members have to gank" rule, but I doubt it. Whenever I've seen you, you've talked isht in a fellow of 5+ people.

"Oh, and I dont do excuses. Not once has anyone heard me complain about Lag, or locking up, or suchlike. Pity the same cant be said about you eh? The only comment I make about my ability is that I suck with my wand out and freely admit that. Anything else is just the way it goes, some people are better than me, some people arent, and sometimes **** just happens."

Excuses lead to trash talking, a very valuable & old school part of Dartkide. Being in SS, formerly HoS, allied with BRN, who was/is lead by Al Neo, you should be able to appreciate that right? Since he's the biggest trash talker ever (I think!).

I live in Australia, I get frustrated when I die to people on 100-200 pings but more importantly people who don't have a huge ocean between them & the server. My little brother went to America, jacked a wireless internet connection on his laptop & had about 250 ping... I'm normally at 350 ping... anyway, he was saying how its just awesome over there. Not a huge ping difference, but obviously thats not the only thing that matters if it was such an improvement. He's able to do AP's cast on o.O. servers over here, but can't do it on DT because of lag. Over there he could duplicate it with a little difficulty, with practice he'd get it down pact.

[Shon_Tsu]

I live in Australia too, until about 18 months ago I played on Dialup, for a few months there I was playing on a laptop out of hotel rooms. I've still never used lag as an excuse for dieing.

Like I say, sometimes I'm with groups sometimes not. Generally when I see you, you're running around a hotspot with 10+ people all fighting trying to get 1v1s and *****ing about ganks when you get targetted. Wouldnt surprise me if I've said something about that at the time. But again, given I've seen you like 4 or 5 times that I'm aware of, making judgements on how I play seems strange.

[EtG]

Playing a game is for fun correct?

I find the currect group fights pathetic, & not fun at all. Why fight a full fellow with 0% of winning?

When theres maybe 20 people pvping at the one time, turning down a fair fight offered by someone is as good as admitting you suck.

[Shon_Tsu]

Thats your opinion. Mine is that if I go into a place in a group of 5 and theres 3 other guilds there with 5 people each then my goal is for our guild to kill the other guilds. Wandering off doing 1v1s doesnt do that. To me, being in the middle of a big group fight and asking for 1v1s is pansyass, everyone who gets targetted in a fight like that will likely have more than one person targetting them, but noone else whinges and complains about "ganks". If its 9vs1, yes, thats a gank. If its a few groups of multiple people all fighting each other than its just plain group fighting, if you happen to be there solo then deal with it.

"Playing a game is for fun correct?"

Exactly, and when I'm in a group its because I enjoy fighting with my friends, not because I have some bizzare wish for them to see my stats while I'm 1v1ing or something.

[EtG]

"Thats your opinion. Mine is that if I go into a place in a group of 5 and theres 3 other guilds there with 5 people each then my goal is for our guild to kill the other guilds. Wandering off doing 1v1s doesnt do that. To me, being in the middle of a big group fight and asking for 1v1s is pansyass, everyone who gets targetted in a fight like that will likely have more than one person targetting them, but noone else whinges and complains about "ganks". If its 9vs1, yes, thats a gank. If its a few groups of multiple people all fighting each other than its just plain group fighting, if you happen to be there solo then deal with it."

Ummm I don't wander into a massive free for all & start crying I'm not getting a duel. If 5-9 Solar Shadows are after me, which I remember you doing at least on one occassion, I'll ask for a duel. If I interrupt a group fight between guilds I pay the price of being ganked. Usually if I get involved in a group fight nowadays I pick the side with the lower numbers to make things more even.

You just describe this perfect situation that makes me look like a fool, which never happened.

[Shon_Tsu]

Last time I remember seeing you was at Sith. I was in a fellow of 4 (at least one BR), and there were 2 groups of 3 or 4 and you by yourself. Every time we targetted you you'd run around until half health calling out "I dont do ganks!" and then you'd jump off the cliff, heal up and recall back. If it had been just you then thats fair enough, but there were about 10-12 people there besides you and you were just being randomly targetted. Sticks in my mind because after about 3 times you recalled back and fully debuffed me and kept trying to backshot me. As soon as we targetted you, off running and complaining about ganks you went before jumping off the cliff again.

[nstync]

it's funny how only 126's complain about the lever dungeon calling everyon'e O.o's. There isn't that much peacing and the exp is actually pretty crappy with chains and caul nerfed. They need high level dungeons screw pvm it will be all pvp like darktide should be. Make the xp good too.

[Darid]

Don't listen to ETG, and the only thing I remember of Zinh the noble is a level 50 or so spear I killed in yanshi 3 years ago.

One doesn't even play and the other is spear, and they consider themselves pvp "know-alls".

[Zinh The Noble]

Darid & Shon... go eff yourself. If you are going to sit there and talk crap about me because I haven't fought you or you think I hide in a macro hole all day just because you don't want to face the real issues on the server then go ahead. That is a classic o.O approach. I've been on DT for well over 3 years and it's pathetic that you think levers are a good idea. Only a carebear would think that. You have no clue about DT. Get off my post you damn noobs.

For all I know you two sit in Market place with Pk Hunter running and kill mules as they come in while emoting comparing each other's armor. Yeah now that's DT for ya huh... gb2ff or keep your damn comments to yourself. I'm here posting because I'm sick and tired of this vicsious circle jerk Turbine has put us into where we are spiraling down to the end of AC. If you look at all the changes over the years they basically are in the neighborhood of increasing AL, then increase damage, increase AL, increase damage until they nerf a complete class of weapons or armor. So then they go back and revamp everything, then they realize oops.... need to increase AL, then they inrease damage. Then they get a brilliant idea and bring in tinkering, but in the process they nerf some things... okay revamp time. oops...need to increase al and damage. Then came weepings, oh no we just nerfed tinkered weapons...we must make new tiers of weapons, wait lets make some more tinkering effects....I mean this is just insane. Now we are at the point where we have tons of high levels around due to the age of the game which is natural and some flaws in the allegiance xp passup system and macros. So they bring in Levers so that yay..we can all sit around and talk to a statue until we hit lvl 109. AND YOU SIT THERE AND TELL ME THIS GAME ISN'T BEING DUMBED DOWN? How old are you anyway. How much effort do you think it takes to talk to a statue to level? NONE. You don't quest, you don't use anything they put in place and spent so much time revamping, you don't interact with any of the dungeons/towns...etc. It's a pathetic fix ...hell it's not even a fix. It's a problem.

The fact is Turbine does not have an adequate way to gauge what we want...so a handful of o.Os like yourself come here and ask for these idiotic changes. It's just sad to see this game beginning to suck like it is. I really really like this game because it doesn't have a lot of limitations..but at some point I will leave because it will not be any fun anymore. I'm not there yet, but I'm very close. The only reason I haven't left is because of my friends on the server...the game dynamics itself are not keeping me here. ..

...and you can throw all the pointless insults you want about my clan, my template, or whatever. The fact is I'm still here and I still have my clan. What do you have?

..peace

[Shon_Tsu]

Lets see, I'm still here and I have my Clan? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

I read that post and I still dont get anything more out of it than "Wahh, the noobs will start to catch up on all my hard work of hitting Start in eltank".

The reason you dont know anything about me, is because you're never anywhere the action is.

[Darid]

Who suggest muling at marketplace and calls themselves a DTer?

I am in BRN btw.

[EtG]

Marshal Law himself trashed out Darid, gotta be a valued member for your own monarch (at the time) to basically say you're a carebear who sucks.

Shon, just because you don't comprehend a post doesn't mean theres nothing there - you're just too close minded / stupid to see it.

EXP-LEVERS

THINK about it for a second. Levers that give EXP.

omg anyone who doesn't just hear the concept & laugh is a complete carebear moron.

Do I care if people catch my level up? Yes, if they don't work for it. DT is about struggle, not a free ride & then just do whatever. You guys don't know this, because you're carebear.

[Shon_Tsu]

I dont disagree that the game is being dumbed down. I just personally dont see xp levers as much more dumbed down than hitting start on a macro in a dungeon noone else ever comes through which is how a large proportion of DT has been levelling for the last couple of years.

I just dont see DT as being the struggle it once was. Yes when I started it was hard, and you had to have what it takes to perservere. Levers or not, thats barely there anymore. People have been coming to the server, finding an O.o guild within 10-20 levels, using that guilds buffbot to hunt until they're high enough level to macro viably. Few high levels raid noob dungeons anymore, and theres not enough noobs for them to do a heap of fighting over hunting spots amongst themselves.

I can see your and Zhin's point about wanting DT to be harsh again, I just think its gone past that and wont return. We might as well accept that and get new people in here so at least we have people to fight.

Do I care if people catch my level up? Yes, if they don't work for it. DT is about struggle, not a free ride & then just do whatever. You guys don't know this, because you're carebear.
Thats where you and I differ, I couldnt care less if they caught up with my levels. I'm interested in tomorrow, not yesterday. There are nights I can log on and not find a single person to fight for a whole buff. Compare that to 3 years ago when I could raid through places like the tou-tou/khayaban/etc loop, or the qal/crag/etc loop and find plenty of fights, let alone the hotzones.

[Zinh The Noble]

Shon... I agree with what you just said. It's just hard to see it come to this is all.

... peace.

[EtG]

I guarantee I could attract more of the right people if I had a say in what Turbine did. If they implimented even HALF of what we post here it would STOP people quitting, bring back old schoolers & attract people to start on DT as well.

Levers are a novelty, novelty will wear off. It won't keep players here at all.

[Wide Camel]

Hell I saw this comming way back. The DT population was turning to crap so i even tried to bring in players from other servers just to help the population.

If theres no one around what fun will it be. All recruitment post I made were deleted or locked. Until turbine blaintly askes the DTer's what do you want this game will continue to fall..........

we also need more people from DT posting here, id say mabey 15% if that post here!

[Virindi Clown]

Turbine doesn't seem to have much of a grasp of the concept that you stand a good chance of attracting people simply by not scaring them off all the time.

[Zinh The Noble]

If I write a macro for each lever dungeon and post it, do you think Turbine will care then? Then we will have macros macro'n the very thing that was designed to stop macros.... LOL and I bet they still won't take them out.

Why can't these guys just !@#!$# take down housing barriers and make a log out timer for pvm? That solves all their so called macro issues and it make it so we want to actively defend places. Also makes ls's valuable again along with towns because you can't hang at the mansion for safety or anywhere else...


COME ON IBN you POS! Do something or fire yourself.

[PsycoOrca]

Taking down housing barriers is to complicated, they spent all of their DT time on something only o.O's and low levels could use. :mad:

Just think what happens when they add more levers for the Xpack. people will macro from 20-200 at a rapid rate. going from 20-200 in 3 months would be crazy eh?

bold = edits

[Virindi Clown]

I just thought of something very odd. I assumed they were going with the levers instead of taking down housing barriers and all that other stuff because it didn't take time away from what other guys were doing to implement, as no "engineering" was involved. It was said that taking down housing barriers for DT could not be done because it requires "engineering."

However, these xp levers are a DT-only content change, just as taking down housing barriers and/or disabling allegiance housing recalls would be.

Uh, what am I missing here? Something isn't right.

If I write a macro for each lever dungeon and post it, do you think Turbine will care then? Then we will have macros macro'n the very thing that was designed to stop macros.... LOL and I bet they still won't take them out.


I think you just answered your own question, but someone actually did that the other day and I don't think anything happened.

[racer05]

ok....

all you guys that say the levers are bad and there is no pvp. i just hav eot say that i have never even pulled a lever withought killing someone first. all the levers i have gone to have always had a fight to get to them first, and i think its awesome.