Either you guys don't care, or you're impossibly dense.

[AzulDrakkon]

I honestly believe that no one can be this stupid. You guys are enforcing rules that don't belong on the server. Even WoW has no rules against training on a PvP server. Curses are words, not justification for a permaban, you have a mute command, use it. Fine...no one can macro, but you put in pointless levers? I've come to the conclusion that you guys are trying to clear the server so you can use the extra boxes for frostfell.

If you listened most of the server is saying the same thing, I understand how lazy your programmers are, and don't give me an excuse about "messy code" please, you change numerical values or/and add new code, the last real change was tinkering (probably had some base code in the game knowing you guys), You think we hate you? We don't hate you for no reason, we hate you for ignoring us. Alot don't even hate you, they are just disgusted paying a monthly fee for a game in which we get treated like second class citizens. You want to know the easiest thing you can do?


Envoys:
1. Remove the griefing restrictions that you enforce on the white servers.
2. Swearwords are not a justification for a permaban, however a permamute. Theres enough outside communication tools that if a person has that bad a mouth only their friends have to listen.

XP
1. Get rid of levers, increase monster xp by 3x-4x (bring back old chains?) ...people won't feel that they have to macro in a dungeon for 8 hours to get a few mill.
(A PvP leveling system would be nice, but wouldn't work as it'd be way too much work for you. Fixing monster AI...hahaha, nevermind.)

PvP
1. Remove don't add. REMOVE WEEPING WEAPONS, with your current track record they'll never be balanced.
2. Bring back the AR era...

Archer (AR bow for mages/archers, phantom for melees)
Melee (AR weapon for mages/archers, Phantom for other melees)
Mages (CB for lucky one shot kills, and CS for consistant damage.)

Weapons were treasured back then. instead of a vanilla quest item that makes everyone the same.


EVERYONE POSTING HERE PLEASE MAKE CONSTRUCTIVE COMMENTS ON HOW TURBINE CAN FIX THE SERVER WITH A MINIMUM OF WORK! (Since they don't like work anyways)

[Yeti]

this been posted a hundred times before and was ignored a hundred times.

[Cpl_Punishment]

haha, gl with that

[UA of DT]

I just unsubscribed my last account. That is about as constructive as it gets right now.

[AzulDrakkon]

I know its been clarified 100 times, but I figured one last try wouldn't hurt, haha.

[ElronOfDarktide]

remove the /house guild recall commands

remove housing barriers

simple changes that take next to zero work

result : AC goes from a total and complete waste of time and POS to arguably the best mmo on the planet again.

Elron

[Ibn]

As I have said many, many times:

Training is not against the CoC.

Harrassment is against the CoC. If training is part of a pattern of harrassment, the Envoys will act on it.

How many times do I have to repeat this? Training is not against the CoC.

[Cezium]

So is camping a LS considered harassing(by the CoC) and banable?

[AzulDrakkon]

Its a TACTIC Ibn. I don't care if a person drags a monster on me a hundred times, if I'm annoyed I have an option to send him or her to their respective lifestone. How is it harassment when you have a perfectly fair action you can take against the person.

[osirisd3t]

everything's harassment if you look at it that way.. buying prismatic tapers from a mage could be harassment if some idiot was crying about it.. it's dumb, take envoys out of the game and everyone will be happy

[JJC]

Replace "training" with "killing someone" and see how little it changes meaning of the words and how little sense remains.

JJC

[Eggburt]

I agree.



Someone last night on darktide got banned for luring monsters to another PK.

WTF is this? Cmon TURBINE. This is absurd.

AC is total crap now. It's like you're trying to ignore all of our ideas to make AC better.

I unsubbed all my accounts and I am quitting AC.

Way to ruin a game with potential.
:mad:

-E

[Fizzle Nut]

When I first heard that someone was banned for luring monsters onto another player, I thought it was a joke. I can't believe anyone could possibly get banned for using the environment to your advantage in PvP combat. So how about we start banning for ganking too? God if you don't want the monster on you, kill it, if you can't kill it, you shouldn't be there.

I thought Darktide was a 'Harsh Existance' ? What happened to that? I've been playing this game for 5 years, just ATLEAST remove housing barriers, please, make towns and lifestones useful again.....

[Davy_Hall]

Yeah I think maybe we're just not understanding what you're meaning Ibn. Are you saying that "part of a pattern of harrassment" means that you are dragging creatures repeatedly in an attempt to disrupt the leveling of another player with no obvious intention to kill them? (because I think 99% of DT would say that's a perfectly legitimate tactic). Or are you saying that luring creatures on someone, swearing at them, calling them names, etc, etc constitutes a pattern of harrassment? (many of us would agree with that statement)

I can't see any scenario where dragging monsters on someone 1 time or 1,000 times would be considered harrassment in and of itself. The goal on Darktide is to kill your enemy or disrupt & frustrate his ability to level to give yourself an advantage. I think where we're struggling to understand is how luring monsters could be "part of a pattern of harrassment", unless you mean the player is being banned for swearing, excessive trash talk, or something else and the training of creatures was merely anecdotal to the entire incident. In which case, it's puzzling as to why the luring would be part of the discussion at all?

If you could clarify with an example or something what sort of circumstance you believe training creatures might be considered part of a pattern of harrassment, I think it might clear some things up and put an end to some of this speculation on what Turbine's official position on this issue really is.

[VanDane]

I agree.

Someone last night on darktide got banned for luring monsters to another PK.

WTF is this? Cmon TURBINE. This is absurd.

AC is total crap now. It's like you're trying to ignore all of our ideas to make AC better.

I unsubbed all my accounts and I am quitting AC.

Way to ruin a game with potential.
:mad:
-E
If you all could read....you might understand

As I have said many, many times:

Training is not against the CoC.

Harrassment is against the CoC. If training is part of a pattern of harrassment, the Envoys will act on it.

How many times do I have to repeat this? Training is not against the CoC.
This means there was some other reason that the person in queston was baned.....

Something that person does not want to admit doing...so they are not telling you the whole truth and tring to make it look like Trubine is at fualt when they are not.

The Guy who is claiming to have been Banned "for using the environment " and "Training mobs" is lieing to you and not telling you the whole truth.
He was doing more.... something he does not want to admit to because then noone would stick up for him.


P.S. think and read before you post...it could be a good thing and not make you look like total morons

[Davy_Hall]

That's a good suggestion VanDane, except that the guy who did the reporting admitted that the only reason he did so was because of the creatures being dragged on him (and seemed to think there was nothing wrong with that even after those of us who've been on DT more than 2 weeks let him know what a coward and useless part of DT's society he was).

[JJC]

Van, go read the thread on the DT board. The guy who reported him made no mention of any other behavior than training monsters.

JJC

[Hope-Slayer]

This game has gone to crap! We all ask for just little, easy programming changes for DT... but no that's too much to ask for because there is only 1 RED server.

It is possible for you to change just housing restrictions on DT only, don't say it isn't.

Also, being banned for luring monsters... all I have to say is wow... I thought you could even do this on white servers considering they have no way of kicking out other guilds from their dungeons.

Turbine you guys give the crappiest responses ever, do yourselves a favor and tend to the requests of your customers before you go out of business.

[Pinto]

Im scared to raid dungeons now with lvl 2 mobs in it, might cry caus he got stuck in them and i killed him.

Oh and dont increase monster xp, thats just stupid. So now those uber macro spots for 20mil/hr become 80mil hr? I agree with all his ideas but that 1.

[Ftuoil_Xelrash]

IBN wtf are you talking about "Harrassment"
Darktide IS and always should be about griefing other players in any way possible.

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?


MY GOD THIS DAMN GAME HAS GONE TO HELL!

Quick everyone, pull out your colored dresses and lets CONGO!

[VanDane]

Van, go read the thread on the DT board. The guy who reported him made no mention of any other behavior than training monsters.

JJC
All I know is that there was more going on with the guy who was banned than just that.

My son and his friends (all age 17 to 18 with level 140+ chars and who are some of the major grifers on DT) were on at the time and have a better idea of what happened, and they said there had been allot more going on than has been mentioned.

I find DT to be to immature to play on any more so have long since moved off it.


As for proof as to the immaturity of DT ..... well my son and his friends are considered by many of the players on DT to be mature (and no matter how much I would like to believe that, I have to live with my son and I can tell you, mature he is not) ... when his friends come over for the weekends and play together, I can hear them laughing and trash talking (from the other side of the house) as they gank people after they think I have fallen asleep....

[Gouru]

Speaking of 'patterns of harassment', camping a noobie lifestone and constantly killing the same level one people over and over and over again is clearly harassing. But it somehow is within the rules as Ibn stated in the other thread. If I do the exact same thing by making sure the lifestone is camped by unfriendly monsters though.

Apparently 'how' you kill someone is the determining factor. Now we just need to make sure that all the weapons we use are considered non-harassing.

[Hope-Slayer]

AMG! WATAF! HE HARASSED ME AND KILLED ME AND I DROPPED MY DYED PINK FARAN ROBE AND 10x TINKD 80k MATCHING GAUNTS!

[osirisd3t]

i want 20 people to camp sub for 24 hours and see what happens.. if they get banned i'm leaving permanently

[Ftuoil_Xelrash]

Same here.
all 4 accounts

IBN you SERIOUSLY need to re-think what you just stated.

[JJC]

That's all well and good Van but what Turbine has done is make the act of getting someone killed a violation of the CoC on a PK world. This has nothing to do with the maturity level of your kids or of anyone else. You don't have to play on DT to be indignant over such a policy.

JJC

[Fizzle Nut]

Loud Noises!!!!!

[Ftuoil_Xelrash]

hmm kinda sounds like 600 people clicking un-subscribe to me.

[-EtG-]

Agree with basically everything.

I'd settle for changing how UCM tests are conducted, basically only done when someone reports someone & the person reporting MUST be in the same dungeon as the person they are reporting.

[VanDane]

That's all well and good Van but what Turbine has done is make the act of getting someone killed a violation of the CoC on a PK world. This has nothing to do with the maturity level of your kids or of anyone else. You don't have to play on DT to be indignant over such a policy.

JJC
I think your wrong I do not think that Turbine did anything of the sort.

I am just saying that there is a lot more to this than is being said.

I think your all getting upset over a red herring.

No matter what you say Turbine did not make it a violation of the CoC to kill or cause a person to be killed on a PK world.

All they did was in-force a policy that said Harassment is a violation of the CoC.

Harassment comes in many forms sexual, racial, etc. what ever the form it took this time, I would bet it was pretty bad if a bane was handed out.

And anyone in their right mind would be indignant if there was not such a policy in place

[Ibn]

I just spoke to Katahdin and we have no record of the initial incident having occured in the last three days. So unless I'm given specific details on who was banned and when, I am starting to wonder if the entire thing was a hoax intended to rile up the DT community.

[Ibn]

That's all well and good Van but what Turbine has done is make the act of getting someone killed a violation of the CoC on a PK world.

This is simply not true.

Let me point out again that training is, on its own, not a violation EVEN ON THE WHITE WORLDS.

Why on earth would we make it a CoC violation on Darktide? Answer: We wouldn't, and we haven't.

[Hope-Slayer]

VanDane, stop trying to sound smart and use big words such as indigent if you cant spell enforce right please...

[Some Guy on DT]

This is simply not true.

Let me point out again that training is, on its own, not a violation EVEN ON THE WHITE WORLDS.

Why on earth would we make it a CoC violation on Darktide? Answer: We wouldn't, and we haven't.


why the hell did you say somethingelse then ? shall i quote you ? i dont think this about krevy anymore this is about how you IBN said that training is a pattern of harassment and therefor against the CoC .....

[ElronOfDarktide]

He said it "could be part of a pattern of harassment"

I'd like an explaination of how that could possibly be?

Something is either harassment or its not

It can't be part of a pattern of harassment unless it IS harassment

Or else how is someone supposed to know what they are allowed to do and what can possibly get them banned?

So IBN do you refute your own statement that training will sometimes be considered harassment? or do you want to explain how we are supposed to know when its ok and when its a violation of the coc?

Elron

[Hope-Slayer]

I'm sorry but you guys should offer us a poll or something for a request on DT's behalf. Barriers, No Envoys, etc... Also allow us to macro, that's bull people can kill us if they want.

[VanDane]

VanDane, stop trying to sound smart and use big words such as indigent if you cant spell enforce right please...
HaHa you funny... (almost that is)

For the fun of it (but mostly because you brought it up) I went back though and starting counting the spelling mistakes made by those who are screaming bloody murder.

While I got to a little over 20+ and then saw that it was time that I could leave work and go home, so stopped counting.

Funny ….now how does that unspoken forum rule go…something like this I think

“If you know you are losing a agreement on the board go for the last ditch effort and trash their spelling or attack them 1337 flames of d00d”

So try harder that last shot was not even worthy of the lowest base troll

[Hope-Slayer]

Anyways,

Ibn any chance you can tend to some of DT's requests for once instead of just white servers?

[Shon_Tsu]

What you seem to be missing Ibn, is that the only way to take over territory is to grief the people there. That by definition is harrasment. The goal is to make the gaming experience of the other side so unenjoyable that they'd prefer to go elsewhere. If you're fighting at the hotspots, go ahead and play nice and have enjoyable fights, when you're fighting over a hunting spot then anything goes, the more grief it causes the opponent the better. Thats the only way to get them to leave.

[Jojji]

How many times do I have to repeat this? Training is not against the CoC.

Ibn,

Unfortunately, as I explained to you in a PM, this issue sorta brings to the front exactly why the dev's just dont get it when it comes to DT.

I've read the comments by both people involved in this incident. Twice a solo raider runs into an area, vuls those there agianst the mobs, and runs. A tactic that has been in effect on DT since the servers opened.

For that, he was banned. No matter how many times you make the statement above, it doesn't change the fact that you did in fact ban a player for harrassment via training mobs. I could careless how many different ways you try and dress it up or side step the issue. It still boils down to, you did in fact ban someone for training mobs.

For those not on DT, this raises a huge issue for you as well. An act that the dev's claim is not a violation of the COC, can in fact become a violation of the COC...

We the players are suppost to know when that line is crossed, how? Do we get notified once we are placed on double secret probation?

Ya'll screwed the pooch, agian.

I'm not sure what it's going to take for you to stop dumbing down the game and more importantly, DT. For years the server population regulated itself via the noob campers. The snivling masses, that you seem to be catering to, stayed on the Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy servers and those of us who enjoyed a Harsher existance, had DT.

Please hold your, no divergence between servers comment, as there has been as designed, since day one. It's called Darktide and was the original intent of the original designers to have that divergence.

Paul

[JJC]

> Let me point out again that training is, on its own, not a violation EVEN ON THE WHITE WORLDS.

That's all well and good but, if the accounts are accurate, the effective results is that someone felt harassed in part because someone else was trying to kill him through an indirect means and you banned them for that part of the act on a PK world.

You've labeled the efforts to kill another character as harassement on a PK world. It's as simple as that.

> Why on earth would we make it a CoC violation on Darktide? Answer: We wouldn't, and we haven't.

Again, if the accounts are accurate, then the answer is that you did. You labeled the act of getting someone killed as a harassing act. On Darktide.

JJC

[Drakier]

Wow.... all I can say is ... "waaah"...

I understand that DT is upset about this...

but I see an aweful lot of whining on both this thread, and the VNBoards thread...

I thought that Ibn's response was perfectly fine. I also agree that without more details, you're all getting fired up over nothing. Harassment in and of itself is gray area.. what someone considers harassment, someone else might not... what you think is fair, someone else might not..

It has to be handled so. And yeah.. I'm sure you all making jokes about cancelling your accounts, or really cancelling your accounts is holding serious weight.. as if that hasn't been threatened enough over the last 6 years... AC is still here..

anyone remember when Sticky Melee was added? I do.... and everyone "said" they quit... I don't know the numbers, but it seems like AC is still doing fine after that.

I think all parties involved need to get more facts and information. (no personal attacks)

[Nerice]

I havent PVP'ed in AC for a while now, but....

I dont see any way training mobs on a pvp player could earn a ban. Maybe something else being done while training them (cursing and such) would, but the training of mobs shouldn't play any part of a ban.

PVP means you against me, you do what you can to kill me (or try to run), I do what I can do to kill you (or try to run).

There are many tactics to kill someone involving other factors than the toon, getting into an advantaged positions, ganking etc... Using mobs is just another. When I did pk here, I have and have had others train mobs. Ok, its time to deal with them, run, or die.

"Let me point out again that training is, on its own, not a violation EVEN ON THE WHITE WORLDS" -IBN

Let me point out, its a tactic, and even not on its own should it be used to help justify a ban. Ban for whats wrong, not what is ok here, and what is not ok here.

Bold part confusing to you IBN? Thats pretty much what you are saying here.