Hmm, so sword doesnt do enough damage?

[CouchAttack]

[14:50] Yuriko Oyama frosts your lower leg for 87 points of cold damage!

http://www.angelfire.com/dragon/couchattack/originalhit.JPG




[14:52] You cast Icy Blessing on yourself, surpassing Icy Blessing

[14:52] You cast Executor's Blessing on yourself, surpassing Executor's Blessing


http://www.angelfire.com/dragon/couchattack/Armorisbuffedand600plus.JPG

http://www.angelfire.com/dragon/couchattack/pantsarebuffedandbaned.JPG






Thats ALL THE PROOF that I was fully buffed and baned, thru AL 600+ armor. And you guys say this kind of hit isn't possible?!?!? YOU ARE WRONG. THIS IS A LOW POWER HIT.

Can you devs/biased sword (people) that think this isn't possible ACTUALLY think this is fair?

[Ayatollah]

I agree. I got hit in the foot for 140+ points of dmg on 1/4 power by sword and I was buffed and fully baned. Oh yeah did I mention I was wearing walking boots, which are 520 al?

[Virindi Clown]

OMFG. You are sure that was speed? I mean, I have heard people say that they've been hit on speed for that, but that is bs.

Is there some kind of damage "wi flag," or weird random bug? I used to full power CRIT people in gsa for 80 damage with barely not maxed out str on my melee until they upped the slayer mod on melee weeping weapons.

I have NEVER hit someone that hard on speed. From all the varying reports I have seen, damage somehow doesn't come out constant. It seems different for different characters or something like that.

My melee has maxed out str and a mod str rainment so it's easy to find people to compare to. Numerous times I've seen people on our meginjarder pasting messages of other max str melees hitting them for like 200 or something in fully baned and tinkered armor. I've never done that to anyone, so I have a lot of trouble trying to understand these things.

I crit a guy with a major ward against my element in al 580 solls on full power for 121. This was AFTER the slayer mod was increased. It all seems really weird to me.

Personally, I was happy with that, because I can actually one on one a mage pretty good, but some of the damage claims I hear of are outrageous. If I'm somehow gimped and I'm OK with it, then sword damage really does have something wrong with it.

[Virindi Clown]

I'd like to add that I have seen screen shots with stuff like that before, and I have a lot of difficulty trying to figure out what I am reading.

All of those hits landed on the leggings. Sword's damage variance is 50%. Notice how one hit is for 10, then another is for 25? Well, going by the minimum, 10 X 2=20.

That already went past the limit. On top of that, the crit should have been 40. Instead it is 87?!?

Something is fishy there.

[CouchAttack]

lol yeah, i know if i had just posted the hit, people wouldn't believe me.

thats 100% truth :)

[Vehementi]

It's more likely that after the first weak hits, he switched to full power and had a low hit of 25 then a crit of 80.

And to be ultra devil's advocate, there's no PROOF that you had your cold buff on when he hit you (you could have cast it in those two minutes between the hit and screenshot 2, then re-cast it to show the 'suprassing' message.) Go spar with him and show the entire log.

Edit: In fact, you cast a level 6 arc spell, and he only got one hit in between you saying that and the spell being cast and hitting him. There's no way he was on low power, he'd have hit you several times.

Edit: Level 7!

[Paraduck]

I'm not sure how many people know about this, but it's possible to briefly switch to a full (or semi-full) power attack and back to low power on the next hit without moving the power bar at all (or causing any extra delays.) It's nice to keep people on their toes.

I think that's what the problem is here.

Try this:

Start attacking someone on low power.
Hold the keyboard key down for the attack height you wish to attack at -- you will see the charge indicator charge up as if you're doing the full power attack.
Release key to do a higher power swing.
Your next attack(s) are back on low power.

Easy to mix in a high power swing or two in with low power attacks.

[Virindi Clown]

I'm not going to doubt his buffs and stuff. With no pros, would he get hit for 10? Yeah right...

The huge, IMPOSSIBLE variance in damage is what the issue is.

The one thing no one can ever prove or possibly even know for themselves is if every hit really was on speed.

Couch, are you 100% positive that he was still hitting on speed? I mean, the change in damage literally is not possible. In the time you casted the spell, you were only hit one time, and it looked like it was a continuous, repeated attack because you hit him with the war. That suggests he switched from full speed after the first two hits and hit you sort of close to full power, criticaled, and then made a lower end hit at the same power level.

And by any chance, did you find out if that person's hit on you for 87 was a crit, or if they stay on full speed the whole time or not? If something like that happens to me and I can't figure it out I just ask the person.

[CouchAttack]

Vehemeti(sorry if i mispelled), but the lag was bad and I was fast casting since that was my first war it was about 1/2 the time a normal spell normally takes.


Also, do you seriously believe that I casted it twice? Seriously, thats sad dude.


As well, in the situation, there was a melee behind him too. AND, after I fastcasted the first war, he broke off as fast as he could. He was down to like 119 health (melees hurt from behind heh).


Also, I know there is no proof, but he was stabbing the whole time.

Ive been hit for 93 low power too by a different person. And that time it was DEF low power cuz I was running the whole time.

[Paraduck]

I've hit on higher powers when chasing people too. It's harder to do, but I can do it occasionally with the above method.

[Al Neo]

that wasnt low power

[CouchAttack]

it was within the very little stabbing range

[Paraduck]

Originally posted by CouchAttack
it was within the very little stabbing range I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.

[CouchAttack]

you know how once you get the attack bar past 1/4 of the way, that it swings? well, since the person stabbed me, MAX it was 1/4 of the way.

[Paraduck]

and they hit for 93 with you fully baned and protected? I honestly find that hard to believe. I wish I suffered from this. =P

[CouchAttack]

i swear to god its only some ppl who do this kind of damage too. its like they found a glich, or something


and lol, yeah, that would just be a HORRIBLE ailment for a sword guy :p

[Ayatollah]

I probably forgot a bane on my boots.


But there is a bug in the game where the game doesn't detect your buffs and debuffs.

[CouchAttack]

that only happens when you just log in tho, id been logged on for 9 hours when that happened.

[Virindi Clown]

I wish I could watch myself attack and just look for that so I could figure out exactly how all of it works...

Like I said, this damage stuff really confuses me, because I really did honestly have some kind of bug until the mod went up that made me do terrible damage compared to other people I knew. I'm pretty sure I still have screen shots of full power crits on shadow armor that did like 85 damage and some hits of 9 on speed after full level 7 debuffs.

I've heard several people say they would be running and being hit for normal damage, then suddenly would take a massive crit like 150+ while they were still running. I've never done that myself, but all this stuff together just leaves me with no clue.

I know for a fact I crit buffed store bought plate gaunts (al 100 base) for 253 on full power with max str and mod str rainment on a sword char with over 400 base sword. That's the only constant damage I've ever sat there and attacked anyone to figure out.

[CouchAttack]

couldnt of been too constant, because with a crit for 253 that facker is dead.

[Virindi Clown]

It is constant. Crits can't change because they're just automatically your max damage times two. A weeping sword with its spells activated against buffs and debuffs that balance out to 0%, max str with level 7 str and moderate str, and over 400 base sword will always do 253 to al 100 armor buffed with level 7 impen and to a 2.0 armor mod.

[Ros]

There's a modifier to damage if the attack is from behind.

Every Melee knows this. Mages *should* know this too.

Running from a melee is pretty dumb ;P

Try backing into a corner facing them head-on, like you would any other monkey.

head-on, Melee's are weak. They are stronger from behind.

That is the wisdom. Tactics are everything.
Ros

[Virindi Clown]

Uh I didn't know that and I've played for more than four years, are you sure about that?

I feel like people have always been saying that and that they got the idea from shields only covering your front somehow, because I've never noticed any truth to it myself. My crits are always the same on monsters.

[Al Neo]

Originally posted by Ros
There's a modifier to damage if the attack is from behind.

Every Melee knows this. Mages *should* know this too.

Running from a melee is pretty dumb ;P

Try backing into a corner facing them head-on, like you would any other monkey.

head-on, Melee's are weak. They are stronger from behind.

That is the wisdom. Tactics are everything.
Ros


there is no damage modifier from behind ..... the chance to hit some1 in the back is higher, nothingelse

[TerrorScout]

You Know I think the Weeping Bonus to Damage is based on skill could the extra Damage in Pk fights not just be from max Strength but from Max Sword Skill.


So what would your pvp damage be with?
Max Str, Cord, Sword (Stats)
Level 7 Str, Cord, Sword (buffs)
Major Str, Cord, Sword (Majors)

Also are there any Quest items that give more then +15 to any Sword stats

[Al Neo]

Originally posted by Binky
Neo/Couch this isn't VNboards take your arguement to pms =P


As for the critts, I play both a melee and a mage (melee is max str around 410 base sword and 10 pts from max cord). I hit people ALL THE TIME for 100+ on SPEED, and I highly doubt they were ALL in **** armor =P


I'll do some testing tonight (logg the SS's for like 100 swings on speed against my al 447 base legging and al 450 base sols with underwear also baned).


yeah unbuffed people maybe

[CouchAttack]

naked unbuffed ppl

[Ros]

It's true, damage from behind gets a mod.

There used to be a description in the Q&A- but it seems its no longer there.

This is where we ask the Dev's to confirm or deny-

Playing since Beta means I've been playing for 4.5-5 years. Unlike others, I've never quit, and come back - either. Its been constant.

Devilmouse had done a LOT of explaining about Melee Damage to us - wish someone still had a log up.

Ros

[CouchAttack]

I don't care if someone does 6 extra damage if they are hittin for 80+ on low power lol. At that point it don't matter.

[Paraduck]

Originally posted by TerrorScout
You Know I think the Weeping Bonus to Damage is based on skill could the extra Damage in Pk fights not just be from max Strength but from Max Sword Skill. That's true, but it doesn't explain why I don't hit for that much (I have spec'd/maxed sword, strength, and coord with majors.)

[CouchAttack]

lol Para, hitting for less makes no sense :/

[Virindi Clown]

Obviously I've hit people in the back, and I haven't done anywhere near that much damage.

Obviously the mod isn't like three times the damage, either.

Damage from weeping weapons IS skill based. At 400 base, just like with imbues, slayer bonus on slayer weapons cap. Buffs will not change it, and anything past 400 base will not change it. Just strength.

And Binky, I'd tell you to go back to your o.0 homeworld, but I am basically speechless, because obviously if you are finding anyone you can hit for 100+ on speed you are already there.

I've said this a million times. I don't care if you really do play only on an NPK server or if you play on DT. You don't say anything unless you know what you are talking about.

That's like people who don't vote and go whine about who was elected.

[Preka]

I don't really see what the complaint is...mages are still > melee.

[CouchAttack]

Preka, do you even play this game?

[wintergale]

1v1 in a straight up similar level fight a mage should win every single time. If not then you as a mage simply haven't mastered all the mage exploits but dont worry I am certain you will soon.

Oh yes I agree sword is overpowered. Mage can move around too much. The only Template that is even remotely challenging is an archer underpowered and can easily be evaded. Try playing an archer these days.

[Binky]

"And Binky, I'd tell you to go back to your o.0 homeworld, but I am basically speechless, because obviously if you are finding anyone you can hit for 100+ on speed you are already there."



1) I have been on DT and only on DT since I discovered AC =P

2) Just tested out this "impossible" damage from sword last night with my melee and someone wearing my al 450 sols al 447 legs and Just gsc bp/sleeves (for comparisons)......

After 100 "speed" shots on him with an imp and a vuln I crit 23 times. 9 of those crits were between 90-120. This was with 415 base sword and maxed str. There was no "noticeable" difference when he turned around and I hit him from behind. The non crit hits ranged between 25-45'ish with a few around the 60 range.

After the higher al testing we switched to the celdon bp/sleeves/(and his gloves were only 248 base al to be right around gsx).

After 100 "speed" shots on him with an imp and a vuln I crit 36 times. 25 of these crits were over 120 and 2 times I popped him for over 200. The non crit hits ranged from 40'ish-70 with a few NON crits hitting in the upper 90's.


On both top and bottom there was about a 5-8 point shot per swing difference if he was wearing a baned Rainment.

[Virindi Clown]

How about baning the armor next time?

[Ayatollah]

Originally posted by Preka
I don't really see what the complaint is...mages are still > melee.


Do you even pk?

[Ifuritah]

quote:Originally posted by Preka
I don't really see what the complaint is...mages are still > melee.




Do you even pk?

Hmm, perhaps they PvP naked?

[Ayatollah]

More like going PK(L) naked and going afk just to come back wondering why they died.

[Binky]

Heh, not complaining about sword damage (me melee is .... A SWORDSMAN). Just showing that it does way outpower other melee type weopons (yes it costs more but mace/spear are near what it costs....)

Virindi, armor was baned freak =P I'm not an idiot.


Too much time on my hands? The testing took a total of 10 minutes?

[CAB]

sword just does so much dmg :/

[Virindi Clown]

Binky, its rare that I even get in power hits on people that go over 100.

I have NEVER seen a speed hit over 100.

I have maxed out str.