It's obvious that they never had a melee swing at a mage with a + melee D wand

[ElronOfDarktide]

before they put melee d wands into the game would you not expect any reasonable dev team to MAYBE have a mage hold one and have a melee swing at them????


or even just crunch the numbers and see what a mages melee d would turn out to be and subtract what a melees skill can reach??? THEY DIDN'T EVEN DO THAT!!!! (who remembers ibn saying " I crunched the numbers and i see the problem" AFTER the complaints rolled in AFTER it was already in the game)

do you deny NOT testing this at all IBN? Because that would make you look worse wouldn't it??????????


i mean... if you tested it and still put it in then WTF!!!!

Can we get a new policy where you have to test stuff before you put it in? I'd feel a lot more comfortable from now on if i heard this was your new "OFFICIAL" policy .......

Elron

[Cezium]

If loot weapons didn't suck a melee could velvet a weapon a few times.

[Paraduck]

A big part of the problem is that melees need iron/granite to improve their damage. Mages CAN'T improve their damage in any way through tinkering (other than imbues.) This frees up the mage to tinker their wand 9 times with brass. Mages are the only class that gets it this easy in regards to weapon tinkering/effectiveness.

[Virindi Clown]

Melee d mods on wands came out in April last year. And look what we're just a few days away from: April of 2005. Just forget that they didn't test or think about this stuff, or listen to us when we warned them. It's been a FULL YEAR and they have not done ONE LITTLE THING about it.

If loot weapons didn't suck a melee could velvet a weapon a few times.

I don't think that would even help. Then melees' attack mods would just be on par with the mage's defense mods.

If a decent level, properly equipped mage NEVER evades a decent level, properly equipped melee, the fight is still not balanced. If you even cut evades down to something like 20%, it would still be completely impossible for the melee to win.

[Mystic-Rogue]

I ran into the most odd template yesterday on Dt, it was a 100coord,quick, focuse melee speced mage, I thought he was a archer. Would have rather fought a archer w/ my melee =/ I can hit archers.

[ElronOfDarktide]

The point is being missed

regardless of what they do..... the dev team clearly didn't test it yet still added it to the game

i want an explanation of how they can be such a bad company to put something into the game without testing it at all.....

Elron

[Mystic-Rogue]

Their busy w/ other games and don't care about ac?

[Virindi Clown]

Mystic, that might make sense if they weren't putting out an expansion lol.

[Cezium]

I think they(or a non pk player) said melee mods on wands would be cool. They fired up their test server. made a +15 orb and buffed it on a melee type toon and said cool I can evade and buff in a spawn like a mage can buff in a spawn. They probably threw some tinks on it and said even better I have a 0 chance of dieing while I buff. Maybe they logged off here and started putting it in the loot system and code.

Maybe they logged on a mage, gave it spec/trained melee and stood in a dungeon taking 0 damage and said hey thats awesome it lets you play a mage like a melee. They logged off here for sure because it is definite that no one thought about pvp.

[Virindi Clown]

Cezium, I'm sure it started off something like that. They rarely seem to test stuff for PvP. What's crazy is that we warned them ahead of time, they responded, and then they went ahead with it just the same, and low and behold, it became a huge problem that they apparently can't handle!

When they first put it in, it was said that the mods were for melees and archers with melee defense so that they could evade as they were balanced to with a normal weapon out against monsters of their level. I can't find where that was said (I think it is in the LttP that explained the treasure system revisions a year ago), but now they have told us that they wanted every class to be able to use every defense skill...

Whichever one it actually is, there were better ways to handle it initially, but they didn't change a thing.

[JJC]

> i want an explanation of how they can be such a bad company to put something into the game without testing it at all.....

They don't test for bugs. What makes you think they would ever test for balance?

JJC

[Cezium]

turbine is very bad at listening to customers. I think it comes with the fact that they are lucky no one has made a game with similar pvp yet.

[Virindi Clown]

Lmfao I just went into the "Player Feedback" forum for no good reason, and look what I found:

http://forums.turbinegames.com/showthread.php?t=8820

That's the thread asking for what we think of the PvP balance changes made last June. It's STILL up there, even though the forum only has one page and it's almost all very recent stuff. It's up to 21 pages now, with 314 replies.

And they still don't get it...

[Davy_Hall]

Don't you have Item Enchantment? Don't you know any blade lure spells? I've never had a mage evade me in PvP. A max melee with all the majors has 529 weapon skill, plus 22% for weeping which means you effectively have 645 attack.

I'm suspicious that most of the people that get evaded by mages are not maxed melees, but rather some sort of hybrid who sacrificed some weapon skill for magics or hp.

The highest melee % wand you can get is 41% unless they didn't even imbue it, then it could be 42%. But a non-imbued wand hits like a wet noodle so the highest % dangerous wand is 41%. Meaning that a mage would have to have 457 skill to evade 50%. If a mage has 457 skill, then they are probably wearing melee def majors (odd for a mage, because it probably means they aren't wearing wards or magic majors, which makes them vulnerable to other mages) or they put attributes into quick/coord, which again, makes them vulnerable to other mages. Also, just as easily as they can tink up a wand, you can also tink up an AR weap. Find a +15 attack weapon, AR it, tink it for max damage, cast HS 7 on it, and bam, you've got a +32% attack weapon. Suddenly the mage has to have 495 melee D to evade you half the time. There are no mages with 495 melee def, not even close. Even if they spec'd melee D and went 100 quick/focus/end instead of putting points into end or strength, they'll be below that number unless they have full coord/quick/melee def majors. If you're going to tell me about a mage that went 100 coord/quick, then save it. That's not a mage. That's a melee who trained war magic. If they run into someone with magic resistance, they won't even be able to land. And don't complain about the damage an AR does. Remember, if the mage is using a melee def wand instead of weeping they're not exactly doing great damage either.

Just like I don't feel sorry for mages when they lose to 417hp max magic D melees (mage busters), I also don't feel sorry for melees that lose to mages who have transformed themselves into melee busters.

99.5% of mages don't have 457 melee def which means you can still use your most potent weapon, weeping. If you happen to run into one of those that do, adapt, cast a lure on their wand, pull out an Armor Rending weap. I think turbine balanced the melee def wands just about perfectly. If you're running into trouble with it, maybe you just need to rethink your strategy and/or template.

[ElronOfDarktide]

on darktide the mages are competent enough to put their melee D wand away if you take out a wand......

what are they going to evade melee swings while you cast on them ???

if you have a melee weapon out you can't lure blade..... if you have a caster out they put their melee D wand away.

funny that this concept eludes you and you assume people posting on the pvp boards are noobs.... but you clearly don't play darktide if you think lure blade is a viable pvp option.

and another thing. even if lure blade would work....

what kind of melee is going to break thru a mages magic D with item magic?????

AND .... they could just pull out another melee D wand... its not like brass is hard to find.....or wands weigh a lot....

AND that would also have nothing to do with the fact that they put the wands in .... then realized it was a mistake and admit it.... proving that they don't test. The fact that they didn't test it at all and simply threw it in the game is obvious...... if you really think melee D wands are not an issue because of lure blade .... well then ...... im proud to disagree.

Elron

[Davy_Hall]

Again, I play a melee on Darktide and I've NEVER been evaded by a mage. Not once. Not sure who you're fighting but there are very few decent level mages that have that kind of melee D.

I have however been evaded by melees & archers using melee D wands. I've also successfully lured those wands. You'd be surprised how many people aren't quick enough at putting them away. And honestly, do YOU buff 3 or 4 melee def wands before each fight? I don't. And yes, my item is high enough to get through the magic D of 95% of the mages out there. If yours isn't, might want to raise it a little.

The other points are all still valid also.

1. You can always use an AR weap and never be evaded by a mage.
2. A mage wielding a melee wand instead of a weeping is doing reduced damage anyway.

[Virindi Clown]

Don't you have Item Enchantment? Don't you know any blade lure spells?

Don't you have a brain? Please use it and think before you speak.

And so what if a mage loses some damage if they pull out a CS wand? Do you really think it is that much of a loss, or near a big enough one to balance out having invincibility to melees? Melee vs. mage fights take long enough as it is. There's no way the mage is going to die if they can evade.

Lol and you suggested using AR weapons on top of that. Oh boy, as if weeping weapons weren't pretty much bad enough, why not use a weapon that crits for like 60 on full power? Mages would still evade you in the first place. Just because they evade you LESS with an AR than a weeping doesn't mean they NEVER evade you. It's not like a mage needs to ever evade a melee even once with the way things are right now. It doesn't balance anything out. A melee using an AR against a mage without a melee d wand would be making them invincible. There's no way in hell you are killing a melee d wand wielding mage with an AR weapon.

I can't believe you honestly don't think it is a problem at all and that all that stuff is a way around it.

Since you've never been evaded by a mage, I suggest you put your money where your mouth is and find one with melee defense and a melee d wand and fight them with the tactics you suggested before coming here and questioning everyone else's skills.

[Baishi Joss]

About item magic and lures, etc.

I was under the imression that items didn't have magic resistance and have never heard that the wielders magic resistance comes into play. Where have you read this? Have you got a citation for this? Is it only effective in PVP or in PVM also?

Baishi Joss

[Paraduck]

About item magic and lures, etc.

I was under the imression that items didn't have magic resistance and have never heard that the wielders magic resistance comes into play. Where have you read this? Have you got a citation for this? Is it only effective in PVP or in PVM also?

Baishi Joss
A while back, it was changed so that items have the same magic defense as the wielder.

Here it is: http://acvault.ign.com/View.php?view=PatchNotes.Detail&id=46#lttp
Enchanting Wielded Objects

In the past, casting Blood Loather on an enemy’s sword or Brittlemail on an enemy’s shield was quite easy. If the item had no inherent magic resistance—and as long as you could target the object and cast the spell—you didn’t have to worry about being resisted. Unfortunately, this had the side effect of making high levels of Item Enchantment skill less valuable than high levels of other magic schools, as there was no resistance that you needed to overcome.

Starting this month, however, wielded objects that do not have their own inherent magic resistance will now be able to benefit from the Magic Defense of their wielder. This will only affect negative spells cast by an outside agent, not beneficial spells or any spells innate to the object. In addition, if an item is unenchantable, it remains unenchantable.

[jameskong2]

I have max coord\str\ua spec and mages with 40% wands evade me about 1\5 which reduces my damage to the point of not being able to kill them...
Hell I have a hard time killing anyone with fastcasting skill and havnt died to a solo melee on my maxed out mage with melee sence the wands came out...

Also Ive had plenty of mages outheal me while they wore gsc and they didnt even have melee while I used hollow.

[Abukkubuk]

with my old char maxed sword,str,coord and all majors! so 345 str coord and more then 515 sword skill, i got evaded by a mage with my hollow, which i cant land lvl 7 vuln on him! he evaded my 1/3 shots, that was real fun and i started thinking about going mage/melee at this time!