Idea for town control and housing removal

[Mojo-X]

So many people want town control to become a part of Darktide again, right? And, like them, I think housing ruined many aspects. So get rid of housing, right?

Well, personally, I like the convenience of being able to access storage. So how about this: add banks in towns. You use the bank, and it opens up what is essentially a storage chest. Obviously, a player can access only her slots.

And if banks were town specific (meaning that a player could only use one bank at a time, and only access those slots from that town bank), we would have a reason to identify ourselves with certain towns.

And if certain towns had (much) better sell rates than others, wouldn't these two things help to reintroduce wars over town control?

Or would the banking thing be too complicated to work well?

[Jida]

This concept was banged around a year ago.

Remove housing and put the chests in towns.

No barriers and no crystals. Just walk up to a chest, feed it some items and it is yours. By IDing the chest you can see who owns it.

They then add the @chest commands to give people access or set it to open for everyone.

These chests would be in the backs of the business' in all of the various towns. No @chest recall either, you need to use a tie to get there. You could also crank up the amount of sacks in the chests if needed in a few of them to simulate villa/mansion style storage.

Now with no housing anywhere people will gravitate to towns.

Well I don't know about you but if I want to get a chest I want it to be in a friendly-ish town. This then leads to towns grouping around like minded individuals.

To disable housing they can,

1) Remove everyone's current rent cycle.
2) Set all of the houses to an item that does not exist or if tied to all of the other homes on the other servers then don't allow PKs to buy them (current PKs that own homes on other servers will not be effected).

Of course you let everyone know a month in advance.

Once everyone is out of the houses a % of the lag will be gone since the housing items will be gone or can be wiped. If the lag is tolerable then they can leave the houses themselves since nobody can buy them anymore.

Anyone who wants to be out near them gains and loses nothing since they have no value.

Now the chests are the place to do as secure storage as you can possibly do on DT. Since there are no force fields you are always going to be an accessible target.

Later on they can add that if you have a chest in the town you get better sell/buy rates or possibly better items available to you, "Psst hey buddy, you are from around here, take a look at my private stash."

Seems like a fairly simple first step.

Like the levers, you do not add these things to the other servers.

[McVigor]

well, as much as I may agree with these ideas - and wish them to be implemented

Housing is here to stay.

We're going to have to find a common-ground, or compromise if you hope for any traction on this issue.

Leave cottages/apts alone. Allow 'single' players their place of relative safe-haven for muling - whatever.

Villas, Mansions, and places where entire groups can port to *should* be made to remain 'high risk' on Darktide. Safe havens for large groups of people totally erode on what Darktide was built on. (Clan warfare!)

One possible solution - which shouldn't be too-far-out, or too hard to implement could be :

Forcing villa's and mansions where the Monarch is PK to the 'Open house' status. (Already a built-in mechanic!)

The drawback to this, is that the monarch will have no ability to mule safely, as a regular cottage/apt owner could. (conversely, allowing a monarch a 'Domestic' house, and 'Allegiance Guild-house could resolve this, but it would also strain house availability further.)

A way to off-set that disadvantage would be to lower the price/upkeep - noting the risk included for the purchaser/caretakers.

Even in 'open house' mode, people can't loot the inner-chests, etc anyway.

Yes, I submit that people will start trying to camp enemy allegiances at their mansions/villas. This is as it was prior to housing in towns. This is how it *should* be.

I, personally, share the ideal that there should be NO safe havens anywhere on Darktide. But that's because I still have my old play-habits of the early days too. (muling in BFE, having people help me xfer stuff, etc.)

IF there were no safe zones - I'd like to see people be able to purchase locks for their 'housing' and buff them/beef them so that attackers have to **gasp** pick a lock before they can gain entry. (Door being Lockpickable - Lock tinkerable -AND have the ability to be smashed down AND healed.)

ex: Enemy at the gates with a battering ram trying to gain entry, while the defenders try to reinforce the door.

So its not 'safe' persay - but could be 'relatively safe' providing a 'chance' to safe-mule, while preserving the 'chance' to be invaded.

there I go with that 'chance' thing again... perhaps I'm too old in my years - being too fond of this thing called 'chance' that pushes us to be better players, try harder, live freer, use our imaginations more, explore more, hope more .. etc etc etc....

and perhaps I'm wrong to dislike the many '3d' games that don't allow my character to perform the most simple instruction such as a 'jump' (why bother constructing a Y/Z axis (left or right-hand UCS configurations) if we can't, as players, even use it? -- i dunno, mebbe its me but I think many devs miss the p oint of why we wanted 3d games to begin with. ;p (this is a blatant jab at Vampire: the masquerade)

possibility (chance) is a large part of 'immersion' - its a player-hook that works like crack in the hands of the right people. heh

[Jida]

My list of what DT was supposed to be,

1) Free for all - this meant that anyone can attack anyone else anytime.
2) No safe zones - there were no places to hide where other players could not get to.
3) Open system - all classes and class combos were allowed and encouraged.

My list of what DT actually is,

1) Expected conflict - you go to certain spots in the game expecting conflict. Other than this you are limited to dueling and peacing in hunting spots.
2) Safe zones everywhere - it seems that if you do not have an appointment for a fight you can complain enough to get a personal force field.
3) Closed system - one path leads to PvP glory while all others are experiments to try to beat that one path.

There should be no safe zones on DT, ever. This sets the server apart. Anyone that wants to pick and choose what they like from the NPK servers and apply it to DT should rethink their strategy.

I know this is out of most people's control however if you did not play on old DT and stay you missed out greatly.

Looking back on my old secret muling spots,... hell just getting my mules to those spots with friend's help are fond memories.

Knowing that everywhere you went individuals are going to be ready to fight you to the death if you didn't match up.

You also knew who the 'bad guys' were since back then there were a few and the rest of us were more nuetral.

By leaving in housing you are sanctioning everything else wrong on DT.

Harsh statement?

Possibly a little however housing leads to security which leads to people playing that shouldn't which leads to them changing the server to their liking.

Just like when yuppies move in to your town and now you have 9 Starbucks and an Ambercrombie and Finch.

All housing and safe spots need to go.

Then, you give unsecured storage spots to the populace.

This leads to people going back to towns.

Which leads to lifestones being more important and well as recalls.

Now you go onto the other issues like randomizing player's GUID (to stop detections) dynamically, removing 50% of the available recalls, making deception work properly, etc.

Phase 1 will always be collect underpants.

[Mojo-X]

I'm glad to see someone else is at least thinking along those lines. What a shame that's it's probably only a minority of us, though.

A lot of people complain that Darktide will never be like the good 'ol days (most of which I missed, sadly) again, and that's obviously true. You can't reexperience this game for the first time.

But you can make it fun again. Near-epic warfare... Sigh..


Phase 2 will always be ____.

[Jida]

Asheron's Call 1 has the best PvP engine available today. It is the reason why people are so attached to it and also so explosive in their comments regarding mechains/balance.

They know that this is the only real game in town.

It is not what DT 'is' right now though, it is what it was and what it could be.

The dynamics that could be put into place on DT would overshadow all fo the issues that people complain about now. Mainly because all they have is the conflict in pre-determined hotspots.

If there was a reason to be in the towns (i.e. they nuke housing), if they removed 50% of the lifestones, if they removed 50% of the personal recalls, if they removed all of the @recall commands, if they added chests for storage in towns, if they removed any duplicate dungeons (i.e only one BSD, only one Metos) and if they did a few other things here and there they could revitalize the server.

Making things easier and more convenient is what the playerbase thinks they want however it is the last thing they need.

The original Dev team had an almost demonic glee about how challenging the game was. Their attitude was seen as "Adapt or quit you little crybaby."

Even though I am speaking out about the vit changes, I agree with this mentality.

I agree when everything is difficult and challenging and not just some thrown together patches to simulate toughness.

When Splitpea and Spiltbeans came out it was the beginning of the end for DT. It was the curve of ease that followed that made most people leave.

The game was supposed to be tough and not handed to you.

[xaxei]

I always dreamt of this game when I first started playing, because, well, I was like 9 or 10 years old, and I thought that it was the realist game in the world.

I always had visions that one day, you could craft storage chests, and have only 1 storage chest per character, and go out and find a dungeon and make it your home, like a real bandit. put up permanent walls, ect. (with limit, of course) but I guess that will never happen... it's too much work =/

I also kinda hoped that, when housing came out, you'd be able to build your own house... or at least have some sort of ability to choose what it looks like... by buying a plot of land and building a house using materials you quest for or buy in town, and that the lots would be around the town, like.. litterally right outside town.

If the devs would like to see an example of a truely evolved RPG, look at the housing system on Ultima Online. If you can achieve something anywhere near that, then I shall salute you.

My next phase is to make a game like AC and see for myself just how hard it is to create a personalize-able world.. where you can research and create portals and dig dungeons and tame pets.. build castle's and enslave other players, only to fight down their rebellions later on. Mayby It'll never happen... because the direction games are going in seems to be headed away from the RPG and more towards the Chatbox and first-person shooter.

*sigh*

[Mojo-X]

Completely agreed, Jida... If ideas like this actually gained popular support, do you think the dev's would consider it, though?

What if they set up a site to poll Darktiders, active or otherwise? They could announce it on the forums, in the launcher screen, or even when you just first log on. Concentrate on one or two issues at a time (such as housing and safe-zones), presenting alternative strategies to implement changes (like your ideas) or not, and see where everyone stands.

If they found out that a large percentage of current, or potentially returning, Darktiders wanted a certain kind of change, perhaps they'd be motivated to actually work for us for once.

[Caffeine]

Makes no difference, the server is dead. Noway you are gonna get new or past customers to play on Darktide again. It would take a whole hell of work to get me back and even then I would say "give me a 10% health gem or kiss my @$$!"

best thing to do is quit giving up all your good ideas for free to a company that has been screwing you. Maybe if they were paying you for these ideas, but they're not.

[Jida]

It is not about what would be cool, it is what would be monetarily feasible to do.

In the computer industry AC1 is what is called "A legacy product in maintenance mode".

This means that it has run the course of its expected lifecycle and now all changes to it are meant to keep the status quo.

The fact that Turbine does patches and put out the x-pack at all on this product shows that they are breaking the software model based upon the player's demands.

The issue with Darktide though has always been that it was not the money maker. Add to this that the issues on Darktide are always hot and front burner.

This wears on you after a bit.

If you think that working on AC would be super fun just imagine working on it for years and years.

Not playing it, working on it.

It is not going to be something that you are going to see as a labor of love. When 5:00 hits you bail out rather than put in another hour to finish something up.

New blood could get past this however new blood costs real money which is a serious no-no in a legacy product.

So the changes that I used to suggest were very big, wide ranging concepts with lots of dev time and work involved. Now though, all of the ideas that I try to put out have time/money considerations and bang for the buck.

many of the older posters and players here have left or burned out. Folks like Virindi and Caffeine are starting to become just as discouraged as they were fans of the game.

One thing my Mom used to always say, "Just cause you can't move the mountain it doesn't mean you shouldn't sweep around it."

It is true of DT as well.

Even though the product is in maintenane mode it does not mean that you cannot shake things up with simple concepts.

Imagine a test month where they removed all movement limitations from all actions on characters. I do not know if it would be the best idea, it would be a good testbed to see how the playerbase reacts.

Godmode would be back, all the animation breaks, etc.

I hated Godmode however I kinda miss it too. Those mages were the bad guys and taking one down was so satisfying.

Do that for a month.

Then either in that month or otherwise make all life protections +10% and all debuffs -10% and all major prots +2% and all minor prots +1%.

Make life magic and the buffs/debuffs needed very minor players in a fight.

I am not saying that any of those concepts are sound or should be done. I am illustrating that with a few tweaks here and there (some drastic) you can breathe life into the server.

You want people to complain about fights and enemies and not concentrating on your possibly flakey code or mismanagement of resources.

Smoke and mirrors would go a long way with DT.

[Caffeine]

Jida, FYI I like your posts. You use your brain, I like that. btw dont think I was trying to pick a fight with you yesterday. I am merely trying to get people to wake up cause the sooner they do that, the sooner we as consumers dont have to put up with this junk from game developers.

For everyone: Do you realize there are games comming out now that require no subscription fees and they are almost completely bug free?

Do yourselves a favor and stop taking the abuse!

[Virindi Clown]

Jida, FYI I like your posts. You use your brain, I like that. btw dont think I was trying to pick a fight with you yesterday. I am merely trying to get people to wake up cause the sooner they do that, the sooner we as consumers dont have to put up with this junk from game developers.

Jida is one of the smart ones that Turbine chased off of here. It is nice to have him back. :)

Just look at the names of the posters on the pages way back on this forum. The people who posted here then were completely different, but most everyone has since given up.

I'm about to. This is going nowhere. I really tried to get Turbine to catch on to the stuff they did wrong in the expansion BEFORE it hit, but as usually, it's now too late, and they can't simply fix things.


For everyone: Do you realize there are games comming out now that require no subscription fees and they are almost completely bug free?

Do yourselves a favor and stop taking the abuse!

Yeah, I'm thinking about trying Guild Wars, myself.

[Jida]

Nothing beats AC for PvP though ;)

Guildwars is a very well done game however it is the Country Club Boxing League for EQ folks more than a retirement home for DTers.

Capturing the hearts of DTers again is key to success.

In my opinion, debating a set of changes in an open forum, prioritizing each accepted change, setting milestones/gates for each change, writing up the whole proposal and then implementing it on time will go a long long way.

If you know what is being cooked for dinner you won't be anything other than hungry.

Until something like this happens no voice can be heard on these boards above the general disapproval.

[Caffeine]

Guild wars is an exciting and totally new idea. It's a completely different type of game and you have to open your mind up to that.

However the PvP is VERY fun and if nothing else the PVM aspect of the game is entertaining enough to make it worth the $40 I spent on the game.

It really is a revolutionary idea though and would easily take the place of Darktide if and when someone makes a game like it with a FFA server.

GW is a very well balanced and solid game, and the developers are on the ball. They update the game almost once a week.

Best part is, it's free after the initial cost.

It starts getting really good around 15th level.

[Mojo-X]

So, Jida, how do you get the masses interested in a forum to debate changes?

I agree that introducing even small changes could have a large impact. If we did much of the work (we, as in a significant enough portion of the server to represent more than a few individuals) in developing the ideas, I wonder if the dev's would actually consider implementing them.

[McVigor]

monarchs need to mobilize their troops. Get them to come have their say.

If we can actually find points/issues/solutions that we can all agree to, we'll get a lot more traction. What we have to control - is the threats/whines/complaining that offer/propose no alternatives or solutions.

Every time that starts, we see Turbine back away from the forums entirely.

Since the tone around here is changing 'some' - We're actually seeing Ibn posting again.

Thats already a pretty solid start. Monarchs gotta step-up, though- and try and convince their people to keep the flames and fighting on the fan-sites and try and keep this board as 'serious community business'. Make it policy, or something...

*if* we can pull that off, I'm almost POSITIVE that Turbine will be more open (feeling less threatened) when dealing with us directly. I'm sure they don't like coming here and having to constantly defend themselves for past mistakes they had nothing to do with, as the case is in many cases. (most of those responsible for our major woes are already long-gone.)

we *need* to try to take a more conciliatory approach, and be a lot-less vindictive if we want *any* traction on our issues at all.