Melee D wands are overpowered.

[Frank The Knife]

Please fix it.

:mad:

Can I have a 90% war resist wand to counter the melee wand?


Sounds stupid? Cause it is.

[ElronOfDarktide]

I believe i heard IBN 100% agree with you over a year and a half ago. Or was it 2.5 years at this point???

this was right after he said "hold on let me go crunch the numbers" WHEN THE DAMN WANDS WERE ALREADY IN THE GAME. shoudl dev's not "crunch the numbers" BEFORE they put something into the game?????

wtf

Elron

[DracheDesAngst]

Please fix it.

Can I have a 90% war resist wand to counter the melee wand?



While you're at why don't you IT wannabees at turbine remove the Aegis and Wards, then we can all be equal again.

DDA

[Return of VC]

While you're at why don't you IT wannabees at turbine remove the Aegis and Wards, then we can all be equal again.

DDA

True dat. The wands, aegis, and wards are all total BS, in both PvP and PvM.

[Chon of WE]

For those who dont belive MeleeD wand is overpowered, lets do some math.

429+60=489

489*.42=205.38

489+205=694

That is 694 MeleeDefence without majors. That means you can evade a sword guy with maxed sword, buffed up to (without majors) 489 100% of the time.



Now lets figure in majors. Forgive me if I make a mistake in this part, I dont use majors.

429+60+20?=509

509*.42=213

509+213=722

[Frank The Knife]

While you're at why don't you IT wannabees at turbine remove the Aegis and Wards, then we can all be equal again.

DDA


Those are band-aids put into the game because melees were getting smoked in one shot from mages when CS and CB wands were put into the game. Melees had AR weapons.

I am sure turbine is not done with band-aid fixes. They still have not figured out what to do about melee d wands. Now I wonder if the shoe was on the other foot and melees had 90% resist shields... hummmmm 48 hour hotfix?

[Yew Wan Sum]

Turbine doesn't care. Suck it up.

[Frank The Knife]

Turbine doesn't care. Suck it up.

Yeah you took the words right out of my mouth. :D

[Dread_Og]

Here's a way to 'nerf' it: Debuff the wand and if that's not enough try debuffing his melee d. I think the only thing overpowered is your lack of reasoning ability.

[Frank The Knife]

So when I pull out my wand and put away my sword what do you think the mage is going to do?

A) Stand there like a dumb ass with the melee wand out while I try to debuff it.

B) Put away the melee wand and whip out the weeping and begin fireing.

[Return of VC]

Here's a way to 'nerf' it: Debuff the wand and if that's not enough try debuffing his melee d. I think the only thing overpowered is your lack of reasoning ability.

How ironic. You tell him that he has a lack of reasoning, and then you say that that's because he doesn't use his ITEM MAGIC on a MELEE to debuff a MAGE?

I had to spec life on my melee just to vuln mages. My item was only high enough to buff with 7s. I don't know how in the world I wouldn't get resisted even if I did manage to find a mage dumb enough to not get out a weeping wand if they saw me pull out a wand.

And even if you did debuff their wand, they'd still evade a little, which is completely unnecessary.

[Dread_Og]

Who said the situation had to be confined to a 1v1? I can go a month without finding a melee that fights 1v1, and now melees are whining about something that causes difficulty in a situation that rarely occurs? In a typical situation the melee will have support that can easily debuff the wand or force it away.

Also, you think the average mage fears melees so much that they greatly reduce their damage output by hiding behind a wand in a 1v1? If they pull it out because they are low on hp, pull out your wand and life bolt them. If they are pulling it out because they want to hide from the melee, you could at least start by inepting their melee d, quick, and coord. As I said, reasoning may not be your strong point.

[Dread_Og]

"How ironic. You tell him that he has a lack of reasoning, and then you say that that's because he doesn't use his ITEM MAGIC on a MELEE to debuff a MAGE?"

So the mage with maxed melee d, also conveniently has maxed magic d? Yes, yes, I almost forgot these hypothetical situations always involve mages that conveniently have everything maxed. Also, who said using melee d wands were confined to mages? In my experience, the biggest abusers of melee d wands are other melees or mages with low magic d, since I land just fine with 360 item magic.

"I had to spec life on my melee just to vuln mages. My item was only high enough to buff with 7s."

Whose fault is that for not investing in magics? Maybe you should try yielding first?

[Return of VC]

Good lord, you just keep spewing more BS on top of BS.

First, where the hell did I say that the mage had everything maxed out, or even talk about how much xp they had invested in anything? Seriously, what did you even get that from, and how is it relevant at all to what you are saying?

Yes, people other than mages use melee d wands, which is still stupid, but they can't ATTACK with them.

That last line is just absurd. Yeah, here, let me take xp out of my sword skill and put it into life magic. I guess it really is my fault I didn't think to do that. And you know what? I invested a hell of a lot of xp into magics. My life magic was nearly maxed out, and that was the only one melees needed for fighting people until Turbine royally screwed up. Oh, and thanks for suggesting that I use my significantly lower creature enchantment after I just said that I had to spec life to debuff mages. That just makes lots of sense, especially since I'd just have to cast an extra spell for no freaking reason at all. Think about what you say before you post it.

[Dread_Og]

"Good lord, you just keep spewing more BS on top of BS."

Most players consider fighting running around like a chicken with it's head cut off, so it isn't surprising that they view the opinion of a skilled player as BS. They just can't conceive that most of their 'issues' are not as severe as they have led themselves to believe.

"First, where the hell did I say that the mage had everything maxed out, or even talk about how much xp they had invested in anything? Seriously, what did you even get that from, and how is it relevant at all to what you are saying?"

Would it be from this quote? "How ironic. You tell him that he has a lack of reasoning, and then you say that that's because he doesn't use his ITEM MAGIC on a MELEE to debuff a MAGE?" You seem to be implying that it would be impossible for a melee to use item magic on a mage. Why would that be? Would it be because the melees magics are too low and the mage's magic d is too high? So yes, this does seem to be about how much xp is invested in various skills.

"Yes, people other than mages use melee d wands, which is still stupid, but they can't ATTACK with them."

They can cast life bolts and harms with them, but that isn't considered attacking? Do you honestly think a mage can do more damage with a cs or cb wand?

As for not having high enough magics, you seem to assume that every mage will have high enough magic d tol prevent you from landing on them. It's not that difficult for a melee to develop reasonable enough magics to land on a maxed out magic d mage with majors. At level 190'ish a melee can easily have 400 creature which is more than high enough to land on 390 magic d. Again, if you want to land on mages, maybe you should start designing templates that will enable you to do this?

[Monster]

I think we can all agree melee defense wands are unnecessary in pvp. Other melees actually use them more then mages which is equally pathetic. That was my original problem with them since they were originally added to help mages with melee defense yet melees were using them to hide behind. Now that more mages on Darktide are using them it is equally pathetic.

They were added to help mages in pvm and pvp wasn't even considered. I accuse anyone who uses them of hiding. Melees will use them to vuln and pull them out when they get low on hp. Melees think it is a perfectly viable strategy to pull out an item which makes them evade 100% to heal up. A mage who uses one isn't going to do enough damage to kill anyone the only reason they would have it out because they can evade every time.

Dread has a point. If the mage is a high enough level to make melee defense useful without changing their temp then an equal level melee should be able to inept back (to be maxed out like that you would have to be about lvl 210). A lower lvl mage who goes 100 quick or coord and specializes melee defense is going to have alot of disadvantages (inlcuding low hp and vulnerable to inepts). Then again once both parties are fully inepted you are back to square one and the mage could always pull out another melee defense wand.

Someone who goes 100 strength and coord, specializes and maxes out their weapon skill should be able to hit a mage without having to rely on magics which their obviously going to be at a considerable disadvantage compared to a mage.

I can't comment much on pvm balance but why was it even nessecary for a mage to be able to to evade everytime? I thought part of a mages fighting style was having a wand out for easy heals/drains so why do they need to be able to evade with a wand? It seems kind of silly to be able to evade with a wand out.

The best fix would be to remove the melee defense bonuses on all wands without a war requirement. I'm sure this would put all the carebear servers into an up roar. Then adjust the melee defense wands with a war requirement to still be useful in pvm without being overpowered in pvp. Even if a mage could only evade 50% of the time in pvp I doubt a mage would even waste time with them. Then again it should be up to Turbine to admit that these wands are causing a problem in pvp and crunch the numbers accordingly. I gaurantee even if they did try to fix it this is the kind of thing a carebear would quit over. Maybe the best solution would be to up the attack and defense modifier on weeping weapons to +42% which doesn't seem like a bad idea except it would make loot weapons even more useless.

[DracheDesAngst]

Those are band-aids put into the game because melees were getting smoked in one shot from mages when CS and CB wands were put into the game. Melees had AR weapons.

I am sure turbine is not done with band-aid fixes. They still have not figured out what to do about melee d wands. Now I wonder if the shoe was on the other foot and melees had 90% resist shields... hummmmm 48 hour hotfix?

Oh Frankie.. you have a selective memory. These weren't fixes.. they were stupid mistakes made by some shortsighted idiot. The don't plan anything for the long term or at least the history of the game indicates this since 1999.

We had massive mage death when you guys could buff your weeping weapons. Mages were pretty scarce back then. Face it.. Turbine doesn't know how to equalize it with all the damn stupid hacks and bandaid fixes they've performed on the dead beast. Frankly, Frank.. I think mages should be top dog given the effort we put into our characters, but thats pretty much mute with levers and quick change of character type now.

The game is pretty much dead.. the sooner you realize it the better you'll feel. :D

DDA

[Frank The Knife]

We had massive mage death when you guys could buff your weeping weapons.

When was that? Which patch?

I think mages should be top dog given the effort we put into our characters

Humm in my opinion its much harder to lvl a melee. For my mage I just turn on (macro program) hit start and watch tv till the alarm goes off. Not a lot of effort there.

[Return of VC]

The game is pretty much dead.. the sooner you realize it the better you'll feel.

No kidding. I only came back here today because I got bored before and after work. Seriously, how can they fix this mess? They literally just pile insane problems on top of eachother at an increasing rate and don't even bother to fix them. The server populations are completely worthless since the expansion broke Decal, and it has now been a full month since that happened, but Turbine still isn't catching on. At this point, even if it is fixed very soon, tons of people still won't be coming back.

At level 190'ish a melee can easily have 400 creature which is more than high enough to land on 390 magic d. Again, if you want to land on mages, maybe you should start designing templates that will enable you to do this?

You're not talking about templates at all. You are talking about LEVELS. It's COMPLETELY different. You're practically saying, "Stop complaining if you have a level 150 template and switch to a level 190 template."

[ChildoftheKoRn]

While you're at why don't you IT wannabees at turbine remove the Aegis and Wards, then we can all be equal again.

DDA

Ok if they remove the melee wands, then remove aegis and wards, Then remove tinkered armor, then lower hollow weapons to something to where deadlies are to the nromal hollow damage then i'll be happy. Then they fix jump spin and yaddah yaddah yaddah, If they just remove melee wands then aegis wards, thats not gonna make us equal. Cause then we still got the 400+ base al armor we got all the tank mages wearing which brings all melee AND bower damage down. How would that solve anythign besdies you getting 5 % health dropped before you kill your target? (and yes i know its an exaggeration ont he 5% thing.)

[Cezium]

Humm in my opinion its much harder to lvl a melee. For my mage I just turn on (macro program) hit start and watch tv till the alarm goes off. Not a lot of effort there.it's the same for everyone. melees can be macroed the same as a mage. It is abit more buggy but can be done. alternatively swear a mage to your melee.

You're not talking about templates at all. You are talking about LEVELS. It's COMPLETELY different. You're practically saying, "Stop complaining if you have a level 150 template and switch to a level 190 template."not as much of an issue since they added dungeons with base xp's of 140 million an hour. A single spot in one lets someone solo around 70 an hour(so I've been told)

[Ftuoil_Xelrash]

The best way to fix this is add a melled trained requirment to the wands.
At least in this way, a mage usign them will have earned the bonus by haveing the skill trained.

[Death on Arival]

The best way to fix this is add a melled trained requirment to the wands.
At least in this way, a mage usign them will have earned the bonus by haveing the skill trained.

Yeah, but then that would encourage mages to train melee D. :eek:

[xaxei]

...What mage would use a melee D wand without having melee D at least trained???

I am level 130 and have melee D and war spec'd.... it costs 1/3 of the xp needed to level to raise my melee D once... so every level i get 3 more melee D...

ATM i have like 544 modded (with a 39% wand) melee D, and i get hit by any melee over level 120. (because they have like 430+ buffed skill, and weeping gives them a +12 or so bonus.. so they hit me.)

But, I do evade Insatiable Eaters 50% of the time, and that makes me happy... cause they **** me up since i don't have a shield like melee's do.

[Death on Arival]

I have to say this lol, Your only lvl 130 instead of 129 becouse im sworn under you! Bwahaha sorry had to say it. Yeah, I figure the eater things would tear you up, thats something you should have to deal with for haveing extreme godliness power that all mages are granted. I think it's total bs that a mage can evade a melee with a 50-60% chance. Melee should beable to atleast stand a chance on a mage.. I meen im not a lvl 200 character but im lvl 82.. If I can get killed by a lvl 62 mage I think im PATHETIC. Which I did die to earlier becouse why? I got stuck. :mad: They should atleast give you a fair chance to fight them honestly, they already deal about 200 damage so why do they need to kill you when your stuck? Oh.. its DT yeah yeah yeah I know that im not a dumb ass. I can see all the reply's rushing in now. "Stop complaining and go lvl noob." "Your just a little ****en noob who's mad becouse of 1mage killed him." My replys to those are. Ive been killed by im guessing.. 20 different mages. About the noob thing.. simple stfu. Go and lvl? Id love to if mages didnt camp all my hunting places. Find a new hunting place? Well surely I can but then id make about 6million exp an hour, that just doesnt cut it. I'll stop rambling now.

[DracheDesAngst]

The best way to fix this is add a melled trained requirment to the wands.
At least in this way, a mage usign them will have earned the bonus by haveing the skill trained.

FX.. I'm trained in melee d and started with 40 quickness and 0 coordination. I'm (lvl 198 mage) routinely hit in my 10x tinked armor even with a 36% melee-d wand on a buffed 411 melee-d. How are 200+ swords and UAs cleaning my clock? I probably will spec melee-d to stay alive, but I think we're seeing a new template out there with less focus and self, but more coordination and quickness.

As some of you melee's are discovering, being a mage doesn't make you an overpowering character type. Frankly, all characters are suffering from a poorly designed implementation where we can barely kill each other. Additionally, we're working with a management structure that hides rather than openly discusses the issues to everyones benefit.

DDA

------------------------
Darktide RIP
One server can only take so much abuse.

[Dread_Og]

"At level 190'ish a melee can easily have 400 creature which is more than high enough to land on 390 magic d. Again, if you want to land on mages, maybe you should start designing templates that will enable you to do this?" -- Dread Og

"You're not talking about templates at all. You are talking about LEVELS. It's COMPLETELY different. You're practically saying, "Stop complaining if you have a level 150 template and switch to a level 190 template."

I'm just sort of assuming that if you plan on taking the mage with maxed melee d and maxed magic d (which would require being around level 200) that you would do it on a similar level char. A level 150 mage would have just as much trouble beating the level 200 mage, so why is it so unreasonable to assume that the melee would also have to be a similar level? Now with that assumed, you should be able to pump up your magics enough and spec creature to land just fine. But again, this is more directed at group fight situations, since the mage would be able to easily return inepts 1v1 or keep the melee d wand away until needed.

[Extreme]

Lets compare...

When playing a melee with an aegis, the wielder can negate up to about 30% of the damage from a war spell with 10/10 focus/self and spec'd magic D and no majors. If the melee has over 380 hp it is likely that he can tank at least 2 wars not factoring in resists, giving him time to do a fair amount of damage before having to heal.

With archers, you are able to adjust how much you hit and inversely how fast you hit. If whoever you're fighting has missle D, you need to fire at a higher accuracy to hit them, but you can still hit them.

With mages and the new skill credits, you can train missle D and train melee D, and like some mages are, switch out the 100 end for 100 quick and count on the ability to dodge spells not to die.

Now, if a melee is fighting a mage who has 480 buffed melee and the melee has 523 UA/Sword/whatever with a +22% attack mod giving him 638 skill total, the mage wont evade much, however, if the mage takes out a melee wand with a +42% mod when he has 15 hp and is about to die, he has 691 melee, allowing him to evade long enough to s2h and revit and heal a few times before taking a weeping out and having full stats again. Whats wrong with this?



The problem with melee wands is that unlike the aegis, the melee wand COMPLETELY negates damage done, while the aegis only PARTIALLY negates the damage done. Make an aegis negate 90% of all damage from war spells like the melee wand does (average hit is 1/10 for a melee vs a mage with a melee wand)

You want a real solution? Take out melee and missle D so that while you can negate SOME damage with an aegis, you can't COMPLETELY negate the damage by simply taking out a wand.



P.S. Any melee who has 400 creature magic at 190 either has 100 focus/self or has it spec'd or maxed, and lets be honest, is item magic really on the priority list for maxing skills out?

[Gudrun]

Easy to fix this.

make the meleewands useful to PVM only, shouldnt affect pvp.

and for dread og.. it looks like he is scared to death to lose his melee wand.

im lvl 204 maxxed melee all majors 528 buffed sword and i cant hit melee mages. AND if i debuff them.. they debuff back... so we are back at the beginning.

i have also tryed to use a good AR with better mods.... totally usless against melee mages the first thing they do is debuff it so i cant hit them.

The only one who still think this wands are good are mages that are scared of melees who only crit 100ish at top.

LMFAO @ dread