Severe Packet Loss! [Archive] - Asheron's Call Forums

KirillHuntersun

02-19-2004, 03:10 PM

Just as a note, running a traceroute from your computer to AC's server IPs is only going to tell you that there IS a problem. It is NOT going to tell you WHERE the problem is. In order to find that out, you would need a traceroute from an IP on the same subnet as the AC servers back to your IP address, because the Internet does not route the same going one way as it will going back.

For example - and I'm making this up off the top of my head for the most part, so just roll with it - a traceroute from your computer to AC's IP block could go from your ISP, to UUNet (MCI's backbone division), and from UUNet to AT&T's backbone, where the servers appear to be hosted (based on IP address ownership). And, you could see a HUGE spike in latency between the last hop in UUNet and the first one in AT&T's network, and it could have absolutely NOTHING to do with UUNet or AT&T. How? Well, say AT&T knows your IP block through SprintLink, so once you get your trace into AT&T, the packets are going to go back through SprintLink, then possibly to another provider, THEN to your ISP, and the actual latency you're seeing from AT&T is the fault of something being overloaded in SprintLink's network, or even your ISP's connection to SprintLink.

For those of you who're dizzy from this, basically, it very well could be like taking a highway to get there, and then through the vagaries of internet routing, being forced to take residential backroads to get back. And a trace from one end is only going to tell you if there IS a problem, and it certainly won't help you figure out where it is without a trace back the other way.

Hey Turbine, any chance of you guys setting up a simple web-based script to run traces from the game servers' datacenter back to the IP address that's requesting the trace? Then you could really figure out if the problem's with the datacenter's transits or if it's some mom-and-pop backbone that's screwing everything up.

I gotcha

02-19-2004, 03:39 PM

Well it definately seems to be my ISP...as other people that are on charter communictations seem to have the same problem as me.

I will try the trace route but like you said it is not going to tell me where the problem is...just that it exist.....Is there anyway for an admin in the game to look at my packet loss and see if it is coming from them? I am assuming that would be able to do that? Thanks for the ip's it will help in a small way.

Jessica

02-19-2004, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by I gotcha
Well it definately seems to be my ISP...as other people that are on charter communictations seem to have the same problem as me.

I will try the trace route but like you said it is not going to tell me where the problem is...just that it exist.....Is there anyway for an admin in the game to look at my packet loss and see if it is coming from them? I am assuming that would be able to do that? Thanks for the ip's it will help in a small way.

If the problem is Charter, then this isn't going to tell you anything you don't already know. If no one else around you is experiencing it, as you noted before was the case, you can be pretty certain it is either your ISP or some router along the path.

Since other people that use Charter are having the same problem, you probably don't need to look any farther. Have you called them up and asked for help in cleaning up the line at your house?

I gotcha

02-19-2004, 04:17 PM

Yeah but the problem is....I am getting 1600K speed from my ISP so they are a bit confused...I am clearly getting my bandwidth would you not think?

Lutieus

02-19-2004, 04:26 PM

You're getting the bandwidth between Charter and your home, yeah. But past their local central office, there may be a router or trunk line between you and the AC server farm that's having problems. Since a lot of other Charter customers have complained of similar issues, odds are it's their facilities....

KirillHuntersun

02-19-2004, 05:05 PM

Like I said in my post, it could very well be a problem with one of Charter's upstream providers that's choking off traffic coming in (or going out) over Charter's link to them. If this is the case, they MAY be aware of it, but there's really not much they can do. You can't really fix a problem like that without wholesale changes to the way their routing works - something they will NOT do for a "handful" of customers who are only having problems with one particular application - or seriously upgrading their upstream links.

And that assumes that the problem is actually with an upstream link between Charter and someone else, and not a problem buried somewhere on the route back to you that you can't see.

Tyndall

02-19-2004, 05:39 PM

Not being sarcastic at all here, but if your ISP (Charter) won't help you, then time to look for a new DSL or CABLE ISP. You are paying their freight, they better give you the service you are paying for.

Same T'ing

02-19-2004, 05:53 PM

Don't know if this is GOOD or FAIR or POOR ....

Tracing route to 12.129.18.177 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 9 ms 10 ms 9 ms xx.xx.xx.xx
2 14 ms 18 ms 14 ms xx.xx.xx.xx.xx.client.insightBB.com
3 21 ms 19 ms 21 ms xx.xx.xx.xx.xx.client.insightBB.com
4 19 ms 20 ms 23 ms gbr1-p20.sl9mo.ip.att.net [12.123.24.210]
5 21 ms 21 ms 22 ms tbr2-p013502.sl9mo.ip.att.net [12.122.11.113]
6 27 ms 59 ms 26 ms tbr2-cl7.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.122.10.45]
7 71 ms 68 ms 67 ms tbr2-cl1.st6wa.ip.att.net [12.122.10.62]
8 76 ms 68 ms 67 ms gbr2-p100.st6wa.ip.att.net [12.122.5.170]
9 68 ms 70 ms 71 ms gar1-p370.st6wa.ip.att.net [12.123.44.62]
10 71 ms 68 ms 75 ms mdf1-gsr12-1-pos-7-0.sea1.attens.net [12.122.255.150]
11 69 ms 66 ms 68 ms mdf1-bi8k-1-eth-1-1.sea1.attens.net [12.129.0.250]
12 68 ms 67 ms 68 ms 12.129.18.177

Trace complete.

I gotcha

02-19-2004, 06:31 PM

C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator>ping 12.129.18.164

Pinging 12.129.18.164 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 12.129.18.164: bytes=32 time=87ms TTL=50
Reply from 12.129.18.164: bytes=32 time=83ms TTL=50
Reply from 12.129.18.164: bytes=32 time=82ms TTL=50
Reply from 12.129.18.164: bytes=32 time=82ms TTL=50

Ping statistics for 12.129.18.164:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 82ms, Maximum = 87ms, Average = 83ms

C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator>tracert 12.129.18.164

Tracing route to 12.129.18.164 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 10 ms 33 ms 10 ms 10.82.0.1
2 10 ms 9 ms 13 ms 66.189.0.65
3 9 ms 10 ms 9 ms oxf-swtch01.ma.charter.com[66.189.0.2]
4 10 ms 10 ms 13 ms 66.189.0.230
5 11 ms 12 ms 11 ms 12.125.39.13
6 12 ms 12 ms 22 ms gbr1-p70.cb1ma.ip.att.net [12.123.40.98]
7 12 ms 14 ms 56 ms tbr2-p013501.cb1ma.ip.att.net [12.122.11.201]
8 37 ms 36 ms 36 ms tbr2-cl5.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.122.10.106]
9 77 ms 87 ms 77 ms tbr2-cl1.st6wa.ip.att.net [12.122.10.62]
10 123 ms * 76 ms gbr2-p100.st6wa.ip.att.net [12.122.5.170]
11 73 ms 74 ms 78 ms gar1-p370.st6wa.ip.att.net [12.123.44.62]
12 77 ms 78 ms 77 ms mdf1-gsr12-1-pos-7-0.sea1.attens.net [12.122.255
.150]
13 95 ms 75 ms 85 ms mdf1-bi8k-1-eth-1-1.sea1.attens.net [12.129.0.25
0]
14 83 ms 84 ms 82 ms 12.129.18.164

Trace complete.

Ok I don't think that its charter at this point? Or am I wrong?

Yusuki

02-19-2004, 08:42 PM

No, it ain't Charter; it's hop 10, that att.net node.

I gotcha

02-19-2004, 09:06 PM

C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator>ping 12.122.5.170

Pinging 12.122.5.170 with 32 bytes of data:

Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Reply from 12.125.39.13: Destination net unreachable.
Reply from 12.125.39.13: Destination net unreachable.

Ping statistics for 12.122.5.170:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 2, Lost = 2 (50% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 0ms, Average = 0ms

C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator>tracert 12.122.5.170

Tracing route to gbr2-p100.st6wa.ip.att.net [12.122.5.170]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 9 ms 9 ms 11 ms 10.82.0.1
2 9 ms 9 ms 10 ms 66.189.0.65
3 9 ms 10 ms 12 ms oxf-swtch01.ma.charter.com [66.189.0.2]
4 10 ms 15 ms 10 ms 66.189.0.230
5 12.125.39.13 reports: Destination net unreachable.

Trace complete.

Terlis

02-20-2004, 03:19 AM

Well, I was reading this thread (3:15am) and was going to do a tracert to see how my connection is to ac servers. At the same time I was looking at this url http://asheron.is-a-geek.com/serverstatus.php for server status. All night the servers would be either offline or 500+ ping. So there seems to be some major problems.

So no matter what IP/Server I did a tracert on, it looked like this.

1 15 ms * 13 ms MyIp (edited)
2 12 ms * 14 ms MyIp(edited)
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 * * * Request timed out.
6 ^C

I play other games, and it only happens with AC.
This would be the main reason I don't play. Buffing with the lag and packet loss takes a long time and fighting is tedious.
*swing* *swing* *pause 15 seconds* *swing* *swing* *pause 15 seconds* ect

I gotcha

02-20-2004, 08:38 AM

Seems to me that Att.net is messing up the whole damn system! Is there a way to make them aware that they have a crappy router on there network? or hub ? or whatever is causing this packet loss?

riaf_nayr

02-20-2004, 01:08 PM

I also have noticed the same lag/packet loss, and I also have Charter as my ISP.
My work place has 2 T3 lines so I did a trace from work not sure if this helps but here it is...

Tracing route to 12.129.18.164 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 1 ms <1 ms 1 ms xxxxx
2 6 ms 5 ms 5 ms xxxxx
3 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms xxxxx
4 16 ms 16 ms 16 ms xxxx
5 16 ms 8 ms 7 ms s6-0-4.hsa1.bos1.bbnplanet.net [xxxx]
6 7 ms 8 ms 7 ms ge-6-0-0.mp2.Boston1.Level3.net [xxxx]
7 14 ms 15 ms 13 ms so-0-1-0.bbr1.NewYork1.Level3.net [64.159.1.41]
8 13 ms 13 ms 14 ms ge-6-0-0.edge1.NewYork1.Level3.net [64.159.4.146]
9 13 ms 13 ms 32 ms att-level3-oc48.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.68.127.6]
10 13 ms 14 ms 14 ms tbr1-p010401.n54ny.ip.att.net [12.123.3.57]
11 35 ms 36 ms 35 ms tbr1-cl1.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.122.10.2]
12 69 ms 68 ms 40 ms tbr2-cl2.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.122.9.134]
13 92 ms 94 ms 86 ms tbr2-cl1.st6wa.ip.att.net [12.122.10.62]
14 81 ms 82 ms 82 ms gbr2-p100.st6wa.ip.att.net [12.122.5.170]
15 135 ms 130 ms 125 ms gar1-p370.st6wa.ip.att.net [12.123.44.62]
16 153 ms 122 ms 121 ms mdf1-gsr12-1-pos-7-0.sea1.attens.net [12.122.255.150]
17 107 ms 133 ms 134 ms mdf1-bi8k-1-eth-1-1.sea1.attens.net [12.129.0.250]
18 158 ms 171 ms 164 ms 12.129.18.164

I will do a trace when I get home also..

I gotcha

02-20-2004, 06:28 PM

so basically the reason for the lag is because of Turbine! My packet loss is with att.net that is where the bottle neck is and this is what it says on this page at the bottom! Would this be a correct assumption? Is this something that turbine has control of?

http://asheron.is-a-geek.com/serverstatus.php

**On the new AT&T network.
Page updates every 15 seconds to prevent DoS attacks.
Last build: Fri Jan 30 14:49:14 2004

Jessica

02-20-2004, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by I gotcha
so basically the reason for the lag is because of Turbine! My packet loss is with att.net that is where the bottle neck is and this is what it says on this page at the bottom! Would this be a correct assumption? Is this something that turbine has control of?

http://asheron.is-a-geek.com/serverstatus.php

**On the new AT&T network.
Page updates every 15 seconds to prevent DoS attacks.
Last build: Fri Jan 30 14:49:14 2004

OK, once again: MS and AT&T still control the datacenter, not Turbine. We won't take it over for another 6 weeks. We're transitioning as fast as we can.

Also: If the AT&T datacenter where the servers reside is the bottleneck here, why are you the only person in your group that is experiencing the issue? I'm not trying to duck responsibility here, but if the AT&T datacenter were a major bottleneck in general, there would be thousands of players experiencing this, and we just don't see any evidence of that. Believe me, and I mean this sincerely, I wish we WERE responsible for this; at least then we could jump all over it and fix it.

What I can do, anyway, is ask our NetOps shop to investigate what is happening with Charter and AT&T. We don't have any control there, but we can at least point it out. It might be something as simple as a bad peering arrangement.

In the meantime, if you're with Charter, expect some lag.

Liaya

02-21-2004, 01:52 AM

I have cox cable and notice my traceroute also shows some issues as it goes through att.net.

Fri 02-20-2004 23:49:48 (MST)

1 xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx (xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx) 15.861 ms 20.751 ms 13.193 ms
2 xxx.xxx.ph.cox.net (xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx) 9.483 ms 13.836 ms 9.056 ms
3 xxx.xxx.ph.cox.net (xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx) 8.481 ms 10.671 ms 7.849 ms
4 xxx.xxx.ph.cox.net (xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx) 8.419 ms 10.146 ms 11.962 ms
5 chnddsrc02-gew0304.rd.ph.cox.net (68.2.14.17) 27.981 ms 7.915 ms 10.690 ms
6 chndbbrc01-pos0203.rd.ph.cox.net (68.1.0.160) 9.733 ms 10.809 ms 15.296 ms
7 fed1bbrc02-pos0102.rd.sd.cox.net (68.1.0.167) 16.370 ms 18.374 ms 16.822 ms
8 12.118.229.13 (12.118.229.13) 19.057 ms 17.342 ms 15.952 ms
9 gbr2-p100.sd2ca.ip.att.net (12.123.145.58) 15.967 ms 18.932 ms 19.789 ms
10 tbr2-p012701.la2ca.ip.att.net (12.122.12.1) 19.208 ms 26.435 ms 20.732 ms
11 tbr1-p012501.la2ca.ip.att.net (12.122.9.145) 21.413 ms 21.494 ms 22.708 ms
12 tbr2-cl3.sffca.ip.att.net (12.122.10.25) 36.993 ms 29.964 ms 31.297 ms
13 tbr1-cl1.st6wa.ip.att.net (12.122.12.114) 43.667 ms 43.034 ms 43.351 ms
14 gbr2-p40.st6wa.ip.att.net (12.122.12.162) 52.566 ms 80.021 ms 47.046 ms
15 gar1-p370.st6wa.ip.att.net (12.123.44.62) 45.399 ms 45.598 ms 44.057 ms
16 mdf1-gsr12-1-pos-7-0.sea1.attens.net (12.122.255.150) 45.565 ms 43.156 ms 55.431 ms
17 mdf1-bi8k-2-eth-2-1.sea1.attens.net (12.129.0.238) 45.966 ms 68.513 ms 48.348 ms
18 12.129.18.203 (12.129.18.203) 46.497 ms 42.656 ms 44.724 ms

KirillHuntersun

02-21-2004, 11:48 AM

Liaya, you have no issues on the trace. Realize that all the intermediate hops are routers, which are by nature optimized to pass traffic onwards, rather than reply to traffic sent directly to them which is what a trace reply is.

You're tracing from somewhere in the Philadelphia area according to those traceroutes, and you're going to Seattle. Anything less than 70-90ms transit time to the final location is a GOOD connection.

Spikes along the way on a traceroute will simply mean that either that router is generally busier than most (and probably isn't as powerful as it should be for that level of volume, but that's a relative sort of thing), or that the best available route back to you changes at that point to something less efficient.

As a note, bad peering arrangements are rarely simple, though I expect you know that Jessica. Doing something about it usually requires ordering a new circuit - DS-3 or bigger, usually - or a LOT of grunt work changing the way BGP announces routes to peers. Hopefully, it's something on AT&T's end of things rather than Charter's, because it's going to be far easier for Turbine to get the problem looked at than for a single cablemodem user on Charter.

On a bright note, however, all traffic from AT&T back to Charter appears to stay in AT&T's network until it gets to the peering point closest to the final destination in Charter's network, so there's nothing asymmetrical about the routing, and only AT&T and Charter will be involved.

I gotcha

02-21-2004, 12:30 PM

Ok this is what charter is now telling me....That they do not control the backbone of this problem...as they control my gateway, which is over 16ook per sec.

They said they can not do anything if ATT has a slow connection, I even went as far to ask them if they could route me in a different direction and they said they have no control over it once it leaves charter. Which would make sense to me, but if you look at all these traces everyone of them get really high when it hits ATT? at least that what it looks like to me from all those tracers.

I have a question for you Jessica....when you do take over the data centers will you be moving them to the east coast? perhaps a lot closer to Turbine? It would be great if they ended up in Framingham!

ScarletSorsha

02-21-2004, 12:48 PM

I am having the exact same problem. Packet loss, packet loss, and more packet loss. These things did not happen before the move, quite this bad. I would lag but not get kicked out. Now, I get kicked out about 90% of the time. My boyfriend and I have the same computer (slight difference is video card, same chip set, different company) and we run off broadband connection from a router and he is having as many problems with packet loss as I am. We have tried it both with and without Decal and the same amount of packet loss occures with Decal as it does without. So we don't believe that it is a Decal issue. There are days that Asheron's runs fine with and without Decal but other days it's just bad. There will be problems all day. I don't know if it may be a traffic issue. Too many people on at the same time but as this being a MMORPG this should not be an issue. I'm really not sure what to do about this. I really can't play the game as it was intended. I end up sitting at the mansion chatting instead questing because of the fear that I will crash again and die. Any advise would be helpful. My death count is going up and item count is going down :)

DadgaSilverhand

02-22-2004, 09:31 AM

there was a link that shows ping rates on each server, it said average pings in range of 105 to 150 per 15 seconds.
unfortunely for me, as i get on to play my Ac game, i get 800 pings to 3,000 pings per 10 seconds, sometime it hit over 20,000 pings and went yellow linked every 3 to 5 mins.
i check my computer, it is high enough to play Ac2 and Horizons.
i installed Nvida video card last year and added 512mb ram to total of 768mb ram recently.
so it look like there is some bottlenecked 3rd party relay servers somewhere along the routers.

I gotcha

02-22-2004, 06:23 PM

yes I will have to agree...and unfortunately I can not play AC with this amount of packet loss...and it seems no one wants to take responsiblitly for this....I guess I have no choice but to let my subscription run out if this continues to be a problem...I hope by next month it will be ok..if not I will have to do something.

Delwic

02-22-2004, 08:40 PM

riaf_nayr

02-22-2004, 09:29 PM

I called charter also.. they said that they will file a report to AT&T as the issue is over there network.. if this happens it might get fixed....

If it does not get fixed there will be 7 accounts that will be canceled as I WILL NOT pay for something that I CAN NOT use.......

DadgaSilverhand

02-22-2004, 10:04 PM

i still wondering about Turbine's new online games coming pretty soon, MEO and DDO.
this ms pings and package losses hadnt be taken care while other clients is complaining about not playable.
this will make MEO and DDO look bad and no one want to play the unplayeable and also make other think it is only for the "Elitist's Game".
it look bad as ever increasing and over-crowding online clients when the older computers are selling at dirt cheap prices. this make it more and more bottle-necked and cutthroats.

we need solution by open up the Turbine's regional local servers to ease the relay station's load or volume. this way will cut several "3rd party providers" stations. their equiptments are hopeless outdated.

Evil Ash

02-23-2004, 11:48 AM

Its odd that no one has mentioned the /a chat in this thread (at least not that I have seen).
I, like many others, have been experiencing unplayable lag since the January patch but if I "/filter -allegiance" amazingly the lag goes back to the "normal" amount of pre-janurary patch lag.
Hope this can help some people as much as it has helped me.

riaf_nayr

02-24-2004, 11:38 AM

Thank you Evil Ash, I will give that a try.

I do not think that will take care of our issue, as of last night I have a packet loss of 3 to 12%. Server lag is not as bad as what we are experiencing right now. For instance I will be running to the entrance of a room and stop in the hallway to clear the room before entering, I lag and the next thing I know I am in the middle of the room and down to less than 25% of my health. Questing is impossible, basically the game is unplayable.

I called Charter last night also to see where my ticket stands. As of now it as been passed down to the local area they did some checks on my connection and found no problems. From there they passed the ticket up to the regional area, (East Coast Region) and there it sits.

I will be calling Charter everyday until the problem is fixed. The squeaky wheel gets the oil... and I am squeaking..

Question for you all, how many have Charter as an ISP?
or better yet what ISP do you have and do you have a problem?

Just so you know if you call Charter they will say that they do not support gaming. My answer to this was "I am not asking you to support my game I am asking you to support your network"

They also said that the lag and packet loss I am having is server side.
My response was "If that was the case then everyone would have this problem, so why is it only people on the Charter network is having the problem."

*Edit
Charter also tried to say it was my home network and my router. I shot that down also.

After about 30 min they finally decided to open a ticket. So if you decide to call Charter, do not back down. If enough of us call they will fix it.

My next step if Charter will not fix it is to cancel them as my provider. The unfortunately part is I will have to get dial up so there for I will not be playing AC either. I hope it does not come to that.

Ambersun

02-24-2004, 05:28 PM

This is what I am currently experiencing as well. I friend at work (who is not having the problem) pointed me to this thread.

History:
About three weeks ago Thursday I could not log onto the game. I would get to the Character screen and launch one of my people and never connect fully to the Game Server. I would get in partially, enough at times to see the Allegiance message of the day but the character would not filly load. I would start at 5% packet loss then go to 100% toward the end when it would
finally disconnect. This was in the evenings. At lunch time I could get in game with packet losses anywhere from 5-30% loss.

After a week of reformatting my PC and downloading every known driver available I contacted my ISP. On the next day (Friday, after a week of no play) I was in game again, no packet loss at all. All I got from the ISP Tech was that they had changed a setting (or something) and it had solved the problem. Foolish me, I didn't ask anything more.

Fast forward to last Thursday. I was entering Lacuna to pick up a tusk and BOOM. The exact same thing happens. This happened almost exactly at 6pm. Ever since I have experienced the exact same problems. Packet losses at 100% in the Evenings and 5-30% during the noon time.

I made the call to the "help" desk. *Laugh* no help. No call back so on Friday I made the call again, this time to the Tech dept. They took all the correct info and said it would be at least Monday before anything was likely to be done. Monday (yesterday) comes and I make another call. According to them the problem is not with them but "an AT&T server and they are trying to coordinate a fix" with them.

All I know is that over the course of the last month I have been without access to the game for almost two weeks. The rest of the internet works fine, I have no troubles on any other sites.

I live in Michigan and have Cablespeed internet cable service. Could this be related to Service packs/Patches to Windows Servers to fix all the virus and Windows problems Microsoft is having?

lop-ibn-sung

02-24-2004, 06:37 PM

I live in MA, with Charter as my ISP, and I have had all the same experiences people are describing here.

I have spent over 8 hours on the phone with charter, and 2 hours on the phone with microsoft. Nobody wants to admit there is a problem or take responsibility for getting it fixed.

I have a 2 MB connection that checks out fine on all speed tests. I ping to just about any site out there just fine, but as soon as I get in game, I have anywhere from 3-35% packet loss...with a 174 ping.

I have tried it with and without firewall, with and without decal, I have re-installed AC 3 times now, asked for a new IP address, released and reacquired an IP address countless times, tried mucking around with the MTU protocol or whatever the heck it was...used search and destroy to find trojans or other missed hacks and defragged my hard drive.

Tonight after I downloaded the new patch, I logged on to 35.54% packet loss.

I share the feelings of the people on this board, I can't justify paying for a game that I can't play. The lag is too great.

Delwic

02-25-2004, 07:26 AM

Jessica

02-25-2004, 07:48 AM

Originally posted by Delwic
<sarcasm>

I appreciate your concern Turbine. Thanks for the input on this problem affecting a decent amount of your players. Your interest in this problem is about to cost you all of our accounts, not to mention a few potential new players from the multi-game guild we belong to who recently asked me about AC. They have chosen to stay elsewhere, and you have just about convinced us to go elsewhere as well. Thank You!

</sarcasm>

I know you're frustrated; so are we, since we don't control most or even all of the issues posted in this thread. I can accept being hung for our own missteps; the evidence to date doesn't suggest this is one of them.

We'll ask that the set-up at the datacenter be checked again, which is about the only place we could have an effect on packet loss. To date, there hasn't been an issue there; the majority of the people playing don't seem to be having a problem with this. I'm 3,000 miles from the datacenter, for example, my ISP is RCN, I log in through the Zone just like everyone else and I have zero packet loss when playing.

There is nothing we can do about any packet loss you experience before hitting the datacenter, except make the people that own that hop aware of it. That's cold comfort, I know, but I'm not sure what else we can do at this point except keep the issue at the top of the list.

pacesetter

02-25-2004, 10:17 AM

It would seem to me that SOMEONE would check on how the AC server is staying in contact with the our ISP's. If so many of us are having problems, doesn't it seem that the servers are not talking enough? the constant yellow and red links make the game unplayable.

I have ping rates of 15-16K. my connection speed is "up to 3 mps." and I can't stay connected??????

We get " it's not us". When will it be "us" so that we can get this resolved????

Delwic

02-25-2004, 10:23 AM

riaf_nayr

02-25-2004, 10:56 AM

I agree with you Delwic, it is nice to know that Turbine is concerned about this also. I also agree with you on that AT&T needs to get pressure from all sides until the problem is fixed and if Turbine is giving AT&T pressure that will way more then us as individuals doing the same. On the other hand we as individuals also need to give pressure, the more people that call on this problem the higher priority the problem will get.

Like I said before I will be calling Charter every day to check the status of my ticket. I will be doing all I can to keep the pressure on.
As of last night Charter did say that they will be letting AT&T know that there is a problem with there backbone.

It might be helpful to post your ticket number here so when one of us calls Charter we can tell them to look at the other tickets so we can have solid ground when we tell them that there are multiple people that are having the issue. I know they will not give us the information on the other ticket as they shouldn't. But at very least the tech that we are talking to will now that many of us are having the issue.

Well while I was typing this I called home to get my ticket number and my wife told me that packet loss on 4 accounts that are currently logged on are at 0 to 1% packet loss. So we may already be fixed but I will not put a final word on that until tonight during peek times.

In any case my ticket number is 1400171.

Lets hope it is fixed.. :)

Delwic

02-25-2004, 11:54 AM

I was just starting to eat some lunch when I saw your post riaf...I was hopeful after I read your post, but I logged in on 1 account and still had the packet loss and high ping time issue. Hopefully yours will stay good :) If yours does stay good, I would wonder if Charter made a settings change to your connection. I came across this board http://www.dslreports.com/forum/charter this morning showing some people having similar problems. Hmmm

Well, I'm home now and the Charter Tech should be here sometime between now and 4 hours from now. I'll post if anything comes of it.

riaf_nayr

02-25-2004, 01:55 PM

The over all packet loss is better, I think it may be the time of day because we are seeing spikes in the packet loss from time to time..
It is spiking up to 19% but very shortly after that it goes down to <1%.

One thing is when I do a tracert the first hop it to ip address 10.80.0.1 which is a server in California, which seems odd as I live in Mass. Charter also has this information.

I am going to hold out judgment if it is fixed until I can see the low packet loss at peek playing times..

Good Luck to you Delwic.

Oh also I found that board very interesting we are not alone.. :)

Let me know how your service call went..

Delwic

02-25-2004, 03:24 PM

Just finished with the service call. He was pretty thorough and put things through the same paces I did. My throughput is 1500-2000k through a router, no problems there. Tracerts to IPs that don't have AT&T routers in their path were fast and without packet loss. Only problems we saw were with AT&T right before you hit the Wintersebb hub. Specifically

mdf1-gsr12-1-pos-7-0.sea1.attens.net [12.122.255.150]
mdf1-bi8k-1-eth-1-1.sea1.attens.net [12.129.0.250]

...both reflect high ping time and/or packet loss on every tracert I run from here. According to the tracert, they are the last 2 hops before the WE hub. In game, I'm seeing the same thing you are, every now and then 0-1%, majority of the time is 5-8%, but frequent gusts up to 20%

::hearty sigh::

riaf_nayr

02-25-2004, 03:35 PM

Delwic, What did Charter say there next step is?
Also what is the IP of the first hop after your router to?

Jessica, Knowing that the packet loss is on the last two hops to the servers is there anything that Turbine can do?

Kreez

02-25-2004, 03:38 PM

AT&T picked up some dated equipment from the old @home cable internet comany that went bankrupt a couple years ago. If they also picked up the @home backbone equipment at that time, they may have some overtaxed or dated equipment routing internet connection.

For those unfamiliar with how the internet backbone works, its kind of like the State Departments of Highways.

You want to drive from Delaware to Chicago, so you do a trace-route to find out what the best route to take is, and where any delays may be. If you find there is a large traffic jam in Illinois, just outside of Chicago, and traffic is slowed to a crawl, you can't really call up the Delaware Dept. of Traffic and have them fix the problem. The Delaware Dept. of Traffic CAN help you contact the Illinois Dept of Traffic and advise them of the problem (if they weren't aware) or help up the severity of the problem report as it begins to affect more and more commuters.

In this case, AT&T may have some traffic/routing issues that they need to address for some incoming customers. Hopefully with enough escallation reports they will be able to re-route through more robust equipment or fix the problem.

Delwic

02-25-2004, 04:29 PM

The tech gave me the company line officially, that the connection is fine and based on the tracerts he saw no evidence that Charter had any influence on the problem. He recommended I call Charter's help desk again and try to get them to open a ticket along the lines of what you did. He was very nice about it, in fact, he is a former AC player...he only stopped because his wife got tired of how much time he spent playing it LOL (Glad my wife plays AC with me:D ). Anyway, a call to Charter and they wouldn't open a ticket...I even gave them your ticket number from above, but to no avail....

I've been fighting this problem for a week now and have had enough of it. We've pretty much decided to give it until the weekend, then if things are still the same and there's no status update, we'll probably move on. As they say, life does go on.:D

riaf_nayr

02-25-2004, 05:16 PM

Well Delwic that stinks.. and you are right life does go on.

If it was me I would stay on the phone and climb the management tree until I got someone to help me, or at very least get a ticket open.

They may say is we do not support games, but we are not asking them to support our game but there network.

Also they may say the problem is AT&T, which I do agree with them but, they are my internet service provider, and I am having a problem with the internet so provide me some service.

We are not asking them to take over AT&T we are asking them to open a ticket to help us take care of our problem and to have some kind of documentation on the issue. I now just as well as you do that there is nothing that Charter can do but let AT&T know that there is a problem, and opening a ticket allows you to track that problem.

Believe in me that I will not be giving up on this.

With all that being said I do understand where you are comming from when you say that you have had enough.

I will keep you posted on my progress.. :)

lop-ibn-sung

02-25-2004, 05:35 PM

Since I don't know much about the internet and how it's structured, maybe someone can explain this to me:

If I am trying to connect to a server in WA, and a guy 25 miles from me is trying to connect to the same server, how come he gets through with no packet loss, and I get a ton?

I understand he starts at a different point then I do, but we end up at the same place. If his ISP is smart enough to go around the trouble, why isn't mine? Now, if it's not a question of smart enough, then it must be a question of choice...if it's a question of choice, then my ISP has chosen poorly, and needs to choose again.

Did any of that make sense...I know I left out all the techy talk!

riaf_nayr

02-25-2004, 07:25 PM

lop-ibn-sung who is your ISP, and who is the ISP for the guy that is 25 miles away from you..

I have lots of packet loss and I am on Charter,
but 12 miles from me, my friend who is on Com Cast has 0 loss.

so the quick answer to your question is your ISP makes a difference, but more importantly is what is the route you connection is taking?

I was hopeful this morning that my problem was solved. But it is not, as of now my packet loss is at 5 to 20%.

Well I have to go call Charter again....

riaf_nayr

02-25-2004, 10:26 PM

Ok here is the latest..

After being on the phone with Charter for over 2 hours and fighting with the Tech, I then ask to talk to his supervisor. At this time I am put on hold for 20 min, the tech came back on the phone and said that they found a problem on one of there servers. hmmmm.. now was that to get me off the phone or is he telling the the truth. So at this point I asked him how long will it take to get fixed. He said within two days.

I will be calling back tomorrow....

I will not give up...

He did say that I am the only one with an issue.. so if you called get a ticket number and post it.. I need proof that I am not the only one...

lop-ibn-sung

02-25-2004, 11:08 PM

I am in the Springfield MA area with Charter, and I have friends with Comcast.

riaf_nayr

02-26-2004, 09:37 AM

lop, there is the difference between you and your friend.
Charter = Packet Loss
Comcast = no Packet Loss.

Did you call Charter on this? if so did they open a ticket for you?
The more people that call the more attention it will get.
The biggest thing if you call is not to back down.
Hopefully if Charter can not fix the issue, once Turbine takes over there data center they can do something. As there are many of us that are at our wits end..

lop-ibn-sung

02-26-2004, 10:50 AM

I have talked to Charter at least 5 times now, spending in excess of 8 hours on the phone with them. Last night my ticket got escalated to a supervisor.

I informed them that as my ISP providor, I expect them to represent me (the customer) to AT&T. I told them since they are the ones that interface with AT&T, they need to go pressure them to fix the problem. They assured me they would.

riaf_nayr

02-26-2004, 11:23 AM

Lop, Thanks for the info, at least I now know that there are 2 tickets open.

I also read the other post on this,
Packet Loss and High Ping Times (ingame) (http://forums.ac.turbinegames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2717&perpage=15&pagenumber=2)
Which I saw after I posted earlier.

My ticket number with Charter is 1400171, feel free to tell them so they know that there is more than one ticket open for this.
Last night they were claiming I was the only person with an issue.

Nemmy

02-26-2004, 01:47 PM

Well i have called Charter my self and from what they told me that everything is good on their side. They are working with AT&T to try to figure out the problem. I even gave your ticket info. Humm now to make a phone call to AT&T and try to give them my 2 cents ( like that will matter ) and see what they say. :)

riaf_nayr

02-26-2004, 02:10 PM

good to know Nemmy,
The more people we can get to call and the more tickets we get open the more priority this issue will get.

lop-ibn-sung

02-26-2004, 05:19 PM

My ticket number is 1401304 with Charter.

riaf_nayr

02-26-2004, 05:27 PM

Thank you lop,

Nemmy did you have any luck with AT&T?

Opti_Silmara

02-26-2004, 06:36 PM

Sheesh... all you guys are having problems due to the same ISP???

Hmm looks to me it's pretty obvious what all you guys should do!

You create a nice huge list - a 'reverse petition'.

Like this:

"We left ***** because of poor service. Signed:

Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature
Person's Signature

Oh.. and might help if each person adds their Ticket number so this comapny can start firing incompetent staff. ;)

Then you flip a bird, and move to a better ISP! ;)

Opti :cool:

Nemmy

02-26-2004, 06:42 PM

After staying on hold just to talk to someone at AT&T I hung up and said " **** this **** ". I'm sure you can figure it out :) Just hope that the problem will be fixed by the end of the week end at least

riaf_nayr

02-26-2004, 07:55 PM

Opti - for me it is Charter or dial-up. with 5 people that play and like to play at the same time dial-up is not a choice.

As far as ticket numbers go, we have two so far, but Charter has refussed to open tickets for all of us.

I am on the phone with Charter right now. I will let you know...

riaf_nayr

02-26-2004, 08:31 PM

ok Charter is going to contact AT&T, well that is what I was told.
We will find out...

lop-ibn-sung

02-26-2004, 08:44 PM

Just to let you guys know, I elevated mine to a supervisor, and when I followed up on it today, the CS rep told me they are contacting AT&T.

I will give it till next week to get fixed...then I start escalating this till I get a supervisor's supervisor's supervisor...

Sol Kanar

02-26-2004, 09:13 PM

Well. Im in Mass also, outside Worcester. I use charter and have been getting CONSTANT packet loss for almost 3 weeks. It makes it impossible to do anything that takes good timing because of lag....easy stuff I survive but its annoying and is..well annoying.

Constant 4-10 % packet loss.

My friend lives down the street adn also uses charter. Same problem.

Two more people to add to the list

Sol Kanar

02-26-2004, 09:44 PM

My Ticket Number is 1401645

I just called. Told him the problem and gave him someone elses ticket number. Saves tons of time and makes it easy.

He said that they were calling att tommorow but for more people to place official complaints with charter since its not a charter issue and teh more complaints the more power they have to get att off their arse.

Also Jessica. Im aware that this is not a Turbine problem but if Turbine could also call att and push them from another end then maybe this can get resolved. I would hate to have to cancel my ac accounts and charter because I cant play Ac.

Sol Kanar

02-26-2004, 10:00 PM

well I pretty much spammed it over VN boards cause this must be wide spread. It hit a guild mate today and my friend who Ill have call tommorow had been suffering too.....

I didnt hear about this until today when a link was posted from VN

StunnedGrowth

02-26-2004, 10:11 PM

I have charter (st. louis) and I am not experiencing the problems others are. Everything is running fine from here. If I'm getting lag, its from the seattle area.
I ran a check vs td and dt, they are about the same.

Report for 12.129.18.145

Analysis: Node '12.129.18.145' was found in 13 hops (TTL=51).

0 -
1 - 8ms
2 - 3ms
3 - 1ms
4 - 9ms
5 - 4ms - gbr6-p40.sl9mo.ip.att.net - St. Louis, MO, USA
6 - 3ms - tbr2-p013601.sl9mo.ip.att.net - St. Louis, MO, USA
7 - 15ms - tbr2-cl7.cgcil.ip.att.net - Chicago, IL, USA
8 - 62ms - tbr2-cl1.st6wa.ip.att.net - Seattle, WA, USA
9 - 56ms - gbr2-p100.st6wa.ip.att.net - Seattle, WA, USA
10 - 56ms - gar1-p370.st6wa.ip.att.net - Seattle, WA, USA
11 - 52ms
12 - 61ms
13 - 52ms

lop-ibn-sung

02-26-2004, 10:19 PM

Seattle is where the AT&T network is causing the trouble that we are all reporting.

Sol Kanar

02-26-2004, 10:26 PM

There is a problem. More people then charter customers are experiencing it.

Im trying to spam VN to get more people to complain. this seems to be affecting a good percentage of people.

Not the majority but trust me enough.

Shomeurs

02-27-2004, 12:02 AM

I'm in Virgina and I use Charter as well, I never had a real bad problem with Packetloss before except on occasion. However for the past week & 1/2 I like most of yall have really bad packetloss. And yes I have also did a trace and every time ATT has been the problem. I did call Charter & they can't do anything because its not them, it is happening some where between them & the HG server, I honestly think its ATT but I could totaly be wrong. Either way, I wish whatever the problem is will get fixed ASAP. I will not sit here & say that if it doesn't get fixed within a certain amount of time I will quit playing AC, I will just find another ISP. My husband did call and spoke to a Tech @ Microsoft tonight, She also said that she will look into the problem. I guess we all have to grin & bear it until its fixed

*tweddles her thumbs*

Geomancer

02-27-2004, 01:11 AM

First I find out from my buddy with cable that his provider blocks incoming ports like FTP. Now this. Thank goodness for Verizon DSL:

1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms (my own router)
2 24 ms 26 ms 27
3 32 ms 39 ms 30 ms
4 24 ms 24 ms 24 ms
5 26 ms 24 ms 24 ms
6 42 ms 42 ms 42 ms
7 43 ms 43 ms 47 ms
8 44 ms 43 ms 42 ms
9 44 ms 44 ms 43 ms
10 48 ms 46 ms 46 ms
11 66 ms 64 ms 61 ms
12 59 ms 59 ms 62 ms
13 59 ms 60 ms 61 ms
14 60 ms 60 ms 60 ms
15 62 ms 60 ms 61 ms
16 63 ms 62 ms 61 ms (The AC server/hub)

riaf_nayr

02-27-2004, 09:48 AM

Sol, Thanks for the info, if it is not fixed soon I would see if you friend get call and get a ticket open also.

From the info that Shomeurs and StunnedGrowth gave it looks like people from the east cost are having the problem, if you from the west coast and on Charter you are not having a problem.

It also looks like it is just not Charter customers that are having a problem, from what Sol Kanar said "There is a problem. More people then charter customers are experiencing it." . I would like to see tracerts from people that have the issue and are not on Charter.

lop, I will be doing the same thing, give them some time to get it fixed then escalate until I can not go any higher.

Jessica, I know that at this point in time, Turbine's hands are tied, but it would be nice to hear you thoughts on this and if Turbine has placed a call to AT&T or anyone else.

Charter ticket number so far.
1400171
1401304
1401645

Opti_Silmara

02-27-2004, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by riaf_nayr
Opti - for me it is Charter or dial-up.

Ugh.. been there. So you guys have the one cable-company choice?... and the guy 10miles down the road doesn't have to rely on the local carrier you do. Is that correct?

If so.. I've been there and know the headaches... and please don't listen to the excuses of 'AT&T' is in control of this. I read up on Charter's aquisition. It's been happening now for 3yrs you know? Charter is responsible to make sure you have a technician out there, because it's Charter you pay! Whether AT&T handle the tech side or not, Charter has to get the ball rolling!.. not wait for AT&T to get it rolling. Who told you this is passing the buck.

What you need to do is what one did here.. GO UP THE CHAIN!! Don't stop. Call every day and insist on the manager.. not the customer rep, not even the supervisor.

Every single one of you call.. and make sure you say your name and the area from which you are calling, and also say: "If you can't handle it, then give me the person who can!" If they say it's in AT&T's hands, then say, "So then I want the number you have to call for them! I want to be able to yell at the person who won't get off their butt!" If they say, "I can't give you that number" then say, "Well then give me someone who can!"

You're getting sidestepping answers.. and you want to gt something done. Remember these are people who probably hate being in the office dealing with customer complaints, paperwork and calls. Easier for that CSR to give you some sidestep and hope someone else has to attend to it! So don't let the ball stop there.. push push push!!

Here's something too that might be helpful.. not sure:

games.divo.net is informing it's gamers of why an interruption last year:

March 20, 2003, 5:18PM NorCal Customers Only: It appears MFN has saturated their peering at PAIX, resulting in large busts of lag to AT&T Broadband, SBC DSL, and other ISPs that use MFN. We've already contacted our ISP as well as MFN to try to have this resolved as quickly as possible. Resolved: 8:28PM

If it's through AT&T as you say, then perhaps your company also uses MFN and PAIX? Perhaps this may also be a reason for the poor service right now, and you can ask Turbine to look into it too?

*****Please note I am not saying Turbine can resolve your problem, or that is it Turbine's place to do so. You can only ask them nicely if Turbine can look into it on your behalf. They may not be able to.

If Turbine can look into it, they may be able to find out what is causing interruption for you guys, and they may not be able to. If it's an intentional interruption to Turbine services, Turbine may also be able to breath down the necks of whoever is stopping Turbine customers from using Turbine services... even if it's just a call to Charter and AT&T. It could be perceived by Charter and AT&T that now they've upset bigger fish.

If Charter doesn't resolve this issue for you based on 'they don't support gaming', then it is also against better business practices. Your provider may not 'support gaming' but they're not legally allowed to interfere with Turbines customers either. If you look at the report here for last year of games.divo.. it's not a rare occurrence - http://games.divo.net/status.html

You guys might want to know this too....

Charter Pipeline's Backdoor to Your Network

As one of many who has recently fought with my conversion from the @Home cable network, I wanted to share a disturbing discovery related to my switch to Charter Pipeline cable modem service. It seems that Charter Communications is quietly installing remote administration software on its customers' computers, providing themselves with a backdoor, and
permission to retrieve any file from customers' computers.
In accepting the EULA for this software, you give them permission to copy any information from your computer. This customer support software is based on the popular VNC....

more here: https://lists.wi2600.org/pipermail/2600/2001-December/009654.html

Software like this, that's been altered as this article states, could be slowing you down, and it's intrusive. It means they can see everything on your desktop any time they choose to. You may want to make sure you don't have it.

I've also posted this link on my clan website, incase any of my guys are having the problem you are.

Hope that all helps!! My apologies if I upset anyone with my last post. I didn't realize you were stuck with these guys.

Opti :cool:

I gotcha

02-27-2004, 06:38 PM

Jessica's quote:.There is nothing we can do about any packet loss you experience before hitting the datacenter, except make the people that own that hop aware of it. That's cold comfort, I know, but I'm not sure what else we can do at this point except keep the issue at the top of the list.

This does bring some comfort, I am glad that I am not the only one...I would also urge everyone to call this number below: This is AT&T number that is supposed to control that backbone of the internet....I have gone in circles with these idiots to no avail, they say things are fine! Please call them and complain!

Last Response Time: None

Highest Response Time: -----
Lowest Response Time: -----
Average Response Time: -----
Total Number of Packets Sent: 7

Dropped/Lost Packets 6
Dropped/Lost Packets %: 85 %

Registrant:
AT&T Corp. (ATT2-DOM)
55 Corporate Drive
Bridgewater, NJ 08807
US

Domain Name: ATT.NET

Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
GNMC (VXGTRUVDOO) rm-hostmaster@ems.att.com
424 S. Woodsmill Rd
Chesterfield, MO 63037
US
800-325-1898 fax: 281-664-9975

riaf_nayr

02-27-2004, 10:05 PM

Opti,
Very good Info.. thank you..

So you guys have the one cable-company choice?... and the guy 10miles down the road doesn't have to rely on the local carrier you do. Is that correct?

yes that is correct, one choice. it sucks, I can not even say I am droping you can going with them...

Can you post a link to the Charter's aquisition?
I would like to read to see what it says.

As far as the back door, I do not have it here. I did not let Charter or did I install any of there software. Not needed to connect to the internet.... But that was great info.. Thanks again... I also checked the Registery on all my PCs.

One thing to note, my packet loss is better down to 1 to 8% that is down from 5 to 15%.

It would be nice to here from Turbine on this issue, more importantly after Turbine takes over all aspects of AC, can/will Turbine help with these types of issues.?

Ambersun

02-28-2004, 12:09 AM

I have no idea - yet - what they did but I am back in game after a week off. Yesterday I contacted my ISP and the CSR said the tech had discovered that 'the problem was at their end'. Lord only knows what that meant. I am going to follow up with them though and find out.

This noon I was still getting huge lag, but when I logged on at 9:30 pm est this evening, the game kind of hiccuped with a brief lag spike/packet loss at connect then went back to no packet losses at all.

War-Wizard-HG

02-29-2004, 01:12 AM

Very simple for Turbine to fix.

Jessica have one of your NetOps contact the Charter NOC, once they have them on the line, get one of the ATT DataCenter techs on the line or if you can a ATT NOC Tech.

Let them fix the problems.

-Wizzy

Delwic

02-29-2004, 09:00 AM

Shaolin

02-29-2004, 10:46 AM

Same issues here, and i am in the uk!

I gotcha

03-01-2004, 09:49 AM

Yes...I play Team Fortress on line through Sierra games and my ping time averages between 42 and 130....Then again I am not going through att.net! This problem is now about 3 weeks old and nothing.....Its really too bad as I like ac a lot but can not play with all the packet loss!

lop-ibn-sung

03-01-2004, 07:18 PM

I just got off the phone with a Tier II supervisor at Charter, and there's good news and bad news.

Good news is, AT&T has admitted there is a problem and is going to fix it.

Bad news is the maintenance is scheduled for March 11th.

So I guess that means 10 more days of hell in Dereth or not playing AC....gosh, nothing like a price increase followed by a month of not being able to play.

Shomeurs

03-02-2004, 08:13 AM

Well I guess another 10 days of sitting around on my butt won't hurt, concerding I've been doing it for the past 2 weeks.
About time someone admitted to the problem. Thing is everyone knew it was ATT.

Thanks for the info :)

I gotcha

03-02-2004, 09:56 AM

Unfortunately I do not believe them.....I guess I will wait and see what happens on the 11th or the 12th.

Shomeurs

03-02-2004, 10:06 AM

Nothing we can do but wait & see what happens

riaf_nayr

03-02-2004, 11:27 AM

I got the same thing as lop-ibn-sun did from Charter last night. But they did not give me a date when it will be fixed. I also do not believe them, if it is not fixed on the 11th then we all should get back on the phone to Charter.......

Flesh b

03-03-2004, 12:45 PM

Yep I am on Charter also and my Account ends on the 17th for AC and if the lags not fixed they are not getting paid...Then I will look into other way's to connect to the internet possibly a satalite connection...I do promise you I will be calling charter again if its not fixed..and worse come's to worse They can kiss my ass.I pay 114.00 a month for cable and the 10 or 12 bucks for AC...and if I cant play I dont pay....AC is the only reason I pay for 2mg line to my house.I could care less how fast I can check my email....I am glad to see other's are calling them as often as I..stay on them maybe we can get it fixed...

P.S. Maybe trubine will give us two more piece's of the that sing loot for our trouble's uh (I have found better loot on rabbits)

Flesh b

Hunter

03-03-2004, 01:24 PM

i did a huge survey on lag

can find a link to it from my website link (should be somewhere below)

haven't updated it in about 2-3 years, but info is still good

I gotcha

03-05-2004, 07:31 AM

where is the link?

Hunter

03-05-2004, 09:20 AM

Its in the

"Quests Guides, Hunter's Phatlewt and BS2 profile, ubar link guide and more!"

or www botton ;)

I gotcha

03-05-2004, 09:45 AM

TY....Unfortunately I have updated all drivers and my firmware and all that good stuff! Just going to wait till the 11th or 12th to see if ATT.net fixes there problem I guess.

I gotcha

03-09-2004, 02:08 PM

I would like to keep this bumped until March 11th to see if people's packet loss gets better after the so called fixed.

Delwic

03-11-2004, 07:12 AM

I gotcha

03-11-2004, 08:36 AM

Hopefully when i return home it will be fixed...if not, then I guess I will play team fortress for a cpl of months and check back.

riaf_nayr

03-11-2004, 10:41 AM

Once the worlds come back up I will have my wife check to see if our packet loss problem is fixed.....

lop-ibn-sung

03-11-2004, 11:01 AM

I just got off the phone with Charter, and the rep said that AT&T is actually working on it as we speak. They have confirmation that the problem is being worked...and they are going to call me back shortly with an ETA on resolution.

riaf_nayr

03-11-2004, 11:20 AM

nice Thanks for the info
Keep us posted if you can........

Shomeurs

03-11-2004, 12:25 PM

Sweet! Threw them a cheeseburger & let them eat as they work
Today is the Day they'd better have it fixed or I'm gonna really lose my kool..

Yes please let us know a ETA

I gotcha

03-11-2004, 03:10 PM

Yes I would be interested in knowing also!

Shomeurs

03-11-2004, 03:11 PM

I was playing ingame for a few mins because I was lagging so bad so as of 2:00pm est..It hasn't been fixed

riaf_nayr

03-11-2004, 03:16 PM

My wife said the same thing as of now it is not fixed.. :(

I gotcha

03-11-2004, 04:34 PM

Yea...I kind of figured no one would fix this problem!

Flesh b

03-11-2004, 04:52 PM

Well as of 4:50 pm eastern time I still have a Packet loss.It doe's not look like a Fix took place....My Account is up on the 17th so if thier is not a fix soon,,Well it was real nice playing with ya guy's

Flesh b

riaf_nayr

03-11-2004, 05:07 PM

It is looking like I am in for a fight with Charter when I get home.
Has anyone called Charter yet?
The more calls that Charter gets the more attention this will get.
I get home about 7pm est, so I can not call untill then..

I am not saying this to be mean or to get a repsonce from anyone but there are 5 people that play in my house we have 7 accounts. Non of us want to play now and I will not pay for something that we can not use. I will also be droping Charter if they are unwilling to hep us. I have no problem checking E-mail by dial up.

lop-ibn-sung

03-11-2004, 05:36 PM

Well, I logged in and had 0% packet loss for the first time in a long while. I do get intermittent packet loss, but I don't know where this is coming from.

A Charter rep left a message on my machine, so I am going to call him now.

riaf_nayr

03-11-2004, 05:37 PM

Let us know how the call went....

lop-ibn-sung

03-11-2004, 07:20 PM

I stand corrected, I logged in tonight with 15% packet loss...and was told that the maintanence was going to happen over night tonight...I told that service rep that if it wasn't fixed tomorrow I would be calling the executive offices and heads would roll for the run around I have received.....Sorry guys, it's not looking good ATM.

riaf_nayr

03-11-2004, 07:26 PM

I am on the phone right now with Charter waiting for a Superviser..

I will let you know..

riaf_nayr

03-11-2004, 07:28 PM

do you have the number for the executive offices?

riaf_nayr

03-11-2004, 07:41 PM

well the story I got is that AT&T says there is no ETA when this will be fixed... I will be calling back tomorrow...

Ibn

03-11-2004, 08:22 PM

Moving this to our tech support forum as it's most appropriate and useful there.

I gotcha

03-12-2004, 08:38 AM

well I think that Turbine should be putting pressure on ATT as that is where the servers are! IBN why can't you guys put pressure on them? Having charter do it is great.....BUT your SERVERS ARE ON THEIR NETWORK REALLY NOW!

KirillHuntersun

03-12-2004, 09:18 AM

Okay.

MESSAGE FOR EVERYONE MAD AT TURBINE:

Turbine can't do anything about this. Literally, cannot.

Not, will not. Not, don't care enough to bother. Literally CAN NOT DO ANYTHING.

If Turbine were to call ATT and say, "Hey, we've got a lot of customers on the East Coast with Charter (among others) who are having an awful lot of packetloss, and it looks to be in the ATT network, somewhere East of St. Louis", ATT would say, "You're not our customer. Please contact your provider on this issue".

Microsoft, until the end of the month, was the customer of record for ATT. It appears that Tech support and possibly NetOps may have transitioned early, but that doesn't change the fact that, when Jessica made those statements, it was a fact that they couldn't do anything. Hence why she said to contact Microsoft, because THEY are the customer of record. Legally, ATT is required to ignore a request from Turbine until their name is on the customer list.

Jessica, as an FYI, the reason you're not seeing this packetloss, but everyone in MA on Charter is, is because unlike Charter, who peers directly with ATT, RCN's peering arrangements on the East Coast are all through MCI's UUNet backbone. If I remember the routing correctly, you either will go out through UUNet in the RCN South Boston or New Your City PoPs, and enter AT&T out near Seattle, or you're going to stay in RCN's network all the way to the San Francisco area, then transit out there, so you're missing the issue Charter has. It HAS to be in the east-coast ATT transits, and that's where they're probably looking.

Anyone seeing any improvements today?

I gotcha

03-12-2004, 09:33 AM

Well I do not agree with THAT! Turbine should be held responsible for this problem! They are a customer of ATT.....if you check out the status of the servers look at the bottom it says this

*On the new AT&T network.
Page updates every 15 seconds to prevent DoS attacks.
Last build: Wed Mar 10 12:00:33 2004

SO that means Turbine should tell att to either fix the problem or they will go somewhere else where they can get good service! This may only be affecting charter people, which by the way runs from Mass all the way down to South Carolina!

Charter has been doing something ....VS turbine who has done NOTHING! They chose their servers to be on the NEW att network then they should be able to tell ATT to fix their problem...how does that not get through to anyone?

sharpy-sc

03-12-2004, 02:33 PM

WOOT!

Flesh b

03-12-2004, 04:13 PM

I have to agree with I gotcha.If they are in fact using ATT and then they should be able to ***** at them the same way we have been complaing to charter...I filed a complaint agaist ATT and they gave me a ID# and I am calling them back to day to check the outcome of my Complaint...

Maybe I will talk to my buddy that is a lawyer maybe he might know a way to find both turbine and charter liable because we PAY them both and we cant get to the bottom of this problem...Hell class A lawsuit we could all end up with Free AC for life LMAO

Flesh b

riaf_nayr

03-12-2004, 04:34 PM

As of now no improvement...

KirillHuntersun I will also disagree with you all indications is that Turbine is a customer of AT&T so there is something that Turbine can do.
The way that I am looking at it I have just paid over $100 for something that I cannot use. For the past 3 weeks not one of us here have not been able to enjoy doing something we all love to do… I am still holding out hope that some one will step up to the plate to get this fixed, I have done all that I can do, I will continue to apply the pressure the only way that I can by making phone calls to Charter. But I am near the end of my rope.

Gregory_WE

03-12-2004, 05:32 PM

The amount of people on this thread that have no clue how the internet and the ISP's operate makes baby jesus cry :(

riaf_nayr

03-12-2004, 05:57 PM

well Gregory_WE ... enlighten us........

Delwic

03-13-2004, 08:31 AM

Delwic

03-14-2004, 10:41 AM

Turbine, would you please do me a favor? If this isn't an issue you are concerned with, please just say so so I can stop checking the boards and the game :(

Be up front with me as a customer, if you don't intend to take any action on this problem, then have the decency to say so and put me out of my misery.

Thanks,

Del

Shomeurs

03-15-2004, 03:19 PM

Well it is now March 15th & I still no NO improvement on my packetloss. Unfortunely, I can not get DSL and I really do not want to go back to dial-up, althou I may have to. Anyone heard from ATT on what is going on or Charter for that matter?

riaf_nayr

03-15-2004, 05:24 PM

The latest from Charter is that AT&T is working on the issue.
A superviser from Charter is going to call me tonight to give me a status. I will let you know..

Shomeurs

03-15-2004, 06:29 PM

K..Thank you :)

riaf_nayr

03-15-2004, 08:40 PM

it is now past 8:30 and no call.

Shomeurs

03-16-2004, 09:05 AM

This stuff is getting outta control. If you say your going to do something then freekin do it, That was directed towards you. You can't say one thing & do another, Its bad for business.

Hmm should we strike?Hehee

riaf_nayr

03-16-2004, 10:04 AM

well no call from Charter last night, when I get home I will call and let you all know what happens.. :)

Shomeurs

03-16-2004, 10:07 AM

I was playing Gurly Gurl ingame & went out to the east Dires...Needless to say, I wasn' out there for long. Even during the morning its still bad.

Shomeurs: yells, Get off ur butts & fix this problem

lop-ibn-sung

03-16-2004, 08:19 PM

Well, I tried to play again tonight...it seems to have only gotten worse. I was at a constant 16.2% packet loss...and now my ping has gone to 4000+.

Needless to say I have logged off. I will not be returning until I get confirmation this is fixed. At least before I could almost play my melee toon or archer. Now I can't even do that. There is so much packet loss that I stop attacking between every swing/shot, have difficulty breaking animation to heal and by the time I realize that I am low on health, I'm kissing the lifestone.

Can someone please help us...

riaf_nayr

03-16-2004, 08:20 PM

everyone start calling....... Charter now...

riaf_nayr

03-16-2004, 08:21 PM

they are now telling me that there is no problem..

Everyone call.....

Shomeurs

03-16-2004, 08:24 PM

No Problem my butt!
I will call tmw since I'm off & see what they tell me

riaf_nayr

03-16-2004, 08:26 PM

shomeurs, ask to speek to a superviser.... I am on hold waiting for him...

Shomeurs

03-16-2004, 08:39 PM

This **** has been going on for a month now...They say It will be fixed by March 11th....LIES ALL LIES

If I didn't have 2 puter that were networked, I would go back to Dial up & say Screw Charter & AT&T! This getting totaly out of control & something needs to be done about it. Turbine is not willing to give or offer any help in this matter. I don't want to quit AC, I've been playing it for to long to up & quit over this.

I'll be up for a while, Let me know if you find anything out

riaf_nayr

03-16-2004, 08:42 PM

are you on the phone with Charter right now...?

I am holding for the manager..

riaf_nayr

03-16-2004, 08:44 PM

one other thing Charter did confirm that the servers are on the AT&T network..

Shomeurs

03-16-2004, 08:47 PM

What is the number..I'm sure there is a 1800#, I can't find my bill

riaf_nayr

03-16-2004, 08:56 PM

1800 634 1008

riaf_nayr

03-16-2004, 08:56 PM

ask for tier 2 support.. first tier sucks.. they do not know anything.. pager turners...

Shomeurs

03-16-2004, 08:59 PM

calling now

lop-ibn-sung

03-16-2004, 09:06 PM

Here's a direct line to tier II...I've called enough to have a direct line now:

1-800-568-6259

riaf_nayr

03-16-2004, 09:12 PM

lop call now if you can and ask to speek to the Superviser..
there are only 2 on tonight,,
better thought ask for the Manager after you get the Superviser...
let me know how it goes..
still waiting for the Manager to call back...

Shomeurs

03-16-2004, 09:23 PM

Well, I just got off the phone with Charter, The guy was a great help & knew what I was calling for. Charter is aware of the problem and They have contacted AT&T about this probelm. AT&T is not their their job which in return we call Charter & vent out on them which isn't fun nor what we really want to do. Once I said March 11th, the guy knew exactly what and why I was calling. He did give me a Email addy to use and he told me to post as much as I could about this problem including this site. So they know what people are experiencing & what is goign on. He also gave me the number to AT&T.
Riaf, If you can get in game & contact me..Shomeurs.

riaf_nayr

03-16-2004, 09:27 PM

what server?

Shomeurs

03-16-2004, 09:28 PM

riaf_nayr

03-16-2004, 09:35 PM

omw

lop-ibn-sung

03-16-2004, 09:37 PM

They are assigning the supervisor Karen Reed (spelling may be off) to the case. She will be handling this personally from my discussion with them. They are going to open another ticket to try and pull all the information into one place. I also pointed them to this thread.

They will be e-mailing me the ticket number once they have all the data gathered (he said later tonight)

Lastly, the AT&T phone number is:

1-888-613-6330

Shomeurs

03-16-2004, 09:55 PM

I have a number for AT&T also

1-800-488-5580

Between us, I hope we can get this problem solved before Turbine loses alot of money as while as valuable customers

riaf_nayr

03-16-2004, 09:56 PM

I just found several other peeps having the same problem..
I will see if they will also post here...

Shomeurs

03-16-2004, 09:58 PM

The more people we can find with this problem, Hopfully the more helpful it will be to us.

lop-ibn-sung

03-16-2004, 10:13 PM

For AT&T, you can e-mail them your specific tracert data with a description of the problem here:

rm-awmis@ems.att.com

They said they will look into any issues if we can provide some data that gives them specific pathing and problems.

riaf_nayr

03-16-2004, 10:30 PM

take a look at hop 9 on this trace..
http://www.tworocks.com/download/12.129.18.177.png

lop-ibn-sung

03-16-2004, 10:35 PM

What program generates that output or what website. I know in MA we can't directly do tracert and we have to go to a website to do it.

riaf_nayr

03-16-2004, 10:41 PM

Ping Plotter (http://pingplotter.com)

-Ald-

03-16-2004, 11:26 PM

I'm on Shaw Highspeed networks in Calgary, Alberta, Canada and am experiencing the same problem

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 1 | | | | | | | | |
| 2 | | xx.xxx.xxx.x | - | ?(Canada) | -05:00 | 48 | -x----- | Shaw Communications Inc. SHAW-COMM |
| 3 | | xx.xx.xxx.xx | rd1so-ge1-0-2.cg.shawcable.net | Calgary, AB, Canada | -07:00 | 45 | -x-- | Shaw Communications Inc. SHAW-COMM |
| 4 | | 66.163.71.129 | rc1so-pos14-0.cg.shawcable.net | Calgary, AB, Canada | -07:00 | 42 | -x-- | Shaw Communications Inc. SHAW-COMM-BLK |
| 5 | | 66.163.76.10 | rc1wh-pos12-0.vc.shawcable.net | Vancouver, BC, Canada | -08:00 | 41 | -x | Shaw Communications Inc. SHAW-COMM-BLK |
| 6 | | 205.150.222.125 | POS5-0.GW3.VAN1.ALTER.NET | Vancouver, WA, USA | -08:00 | 55 | -x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. UUNET-2-A |
| 7 | | 152.63.137.130 | 0.so-1-0-0.XL1.VAN1.ALTER.NET | Vancouver, WA, USA | -08:00 | 38 | -x-- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. UUNET-BACKBONE |
| 8 | | 152.63.138.74 | 0.so-7-0-0.TL1.VAN1.ALTER.NET | Vancouver, WA, USA | -08:00 | 30 | x-- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. UUNET-BACKBONE |
| 9 | | 152.63.1.138 | 0.so-1-2-0.TL1.SAC1.ALTER.NET | Sacramento, CA, USA | -08:00 | 81 | -x-- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. UUNET-BACKBONE |
| 10 | | 152.63.53.249 | 0.so-7-0-0.XL1.SAC1.ALTER.NET | Sacramento, CA, USA | -08:00 | 53 | x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. UUNET-BACKBONE |
| 11 | | 152.63.52.225 | POS6-0.BR5.SAC1.ALTER.NET | Sacramento, CA, USA | -08:00 | 70 | x-- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. UUNET-BACKBONE |
| 12 | | 204.255.174.178 | - | ... | | 62 | x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. UUNETCBLK252 |
| 13 | | 12.123.13.70 | tbr2-p013202.sffca.ip.att.net | San Francisco, CA, USA | -08:00 | 48 | x- | AT&T Worldnet Services ATTSVI-12-122-0-0 |
| 14 | | 12.122.12.114 | tbr1-cl1.st6wa.ip.att.net | Seattle, WA, USA | -08:00 | 53 | x---- | AT&T Worldnet Services ATTSVI-12-122-0-0 |
| 15 | | 12.122.12.162 | gbr2-p40.st6wa.ip.att.net | Seattle, WA, USA | -08:00 | 72 | x- | AT&T Worldnet Services ATTSVI-12-122-0-0 |
| 16 | | 12.123.44.62 | gar1-p370.st6wa.ip.att.net | Seattle, WA, USA | -08:00 | 65 | x-- | AT&T Worldnet Services ATTSVI-12-122-0-0 |
| 17 | | 12.122.255.150 | mdf1-gsr12-1-pos-7-0.sea1.attens.net | - | | 47 | x | AT&T Worldnet Services ATTSVI-12-122-0-0 |
| 18 | | 12.129.0.250 | mdf1-bi8k-1-eth-1-1.sea1.attens.net | - | | 54 | x- | CERFnet ATTENS-SEA1-1 |
| 19 | | 12.129.18.151 | - | ... | | 89 | -x------- | TIG/Microsoft Corporation ATTENS-009262-002819 |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Roy_DeMeo

03-16-2004, 11:40 PM

I was having the exact problem since the last patch, and I could not figure out why. I even called my cable company and ran tests to their center and nothing. I asked around and people around me didn't have any problems yet I was going backwards in game lol. Well now I know it's nothing I can do personally, it's obvious MS has to take it up with AT&T but I doubt it will be a priority on thier part since they are giving the reins over to Turbine in less then 6 weeks. If I was MS I wouldn't care either, let Turbine take the fall basically. Gotta love corporations.

Roy

riaf_nayr

03-17-2004, 11:10 AM

I believe that if we keep digging we will find that there are many people that are having this issue.

I would like to get solid numbers on how many.
This is who I know of so Far

1. I gotcha -Charter
2. Terlis -not sure on ISP
3. riaf_nayr -Charter (ticket 1400171)
4. ScarletSorsha -not sure on ISP
5. Delwic -Charter
6. Ambersun -Cablespeed
7. lop-ibn-sung -Charter (ticket 1401304)
8. pacesetter -not sure on ISP
9. Nemmy -Charter
10. Sol Kanar -Charter (ticket 1401645)
11. Shomeurs -Charter
12. Ambersun -not sure on ISP
13. Flesh b -Charter
14. -Ald- -Shaw Comm.
15. Roy_DeMeo -not sure on ISP

That is the list just for the people that posted to this thred. There are others that posted to other threds. I just do not have the time to go out and find them now.

We all have done tracerts, if you all have time can you do them again and E-mail them to me. (I do not need the first few hops if you are concerned about security.) E-mail address is riaf_nayr@tworocks.com.
Also we all know someone that is not having the problem, getting them to do a tracert might be helpfull to see if they are hitting the same servers. My guess is No they are not, but it might help.

lop-ibn-sung

03-17-2004, 11:13 AM

Ok, here's some more Info:

Charter opened a new ticket to try and pull the information together under. The supervisor's name is Cathy Reade. She will be our advocate.

I need everyone to send some tracerts showing the problems to the following person:

TJennette@chartercom.com

Refernce the new ticket number 1405729.

You may also want to include your original ticket number so they can start to link these together.

riaf_nayr

03-17-2004, 11:17 AM

will do when I get home.. :)

lop-ibn-sung

03-17-2004, 08:12 PM

BTW, can someone give me a crash course as to what i'm looking for with regard to tracerts and packet loss? Is it generally indicated by abnormally high rates or some other indicator?

I gotcha

03-19-2004, 04:04 PM

High rates of information that is lost i believe.....not for sure, but you can ping anyone from your dos prompt window all you need is there ip

BTW any one having any luck yet? I am still at 12 %

riaf_nayr

03-19-2004, 04:31 PM

no luck here,

Charter is sending a Tech out to my house next Friday..
They now think it is my modem, they are saying it is "flapping", I say it is not my modem, so there will be hell to pay after they come and the problem is still there..

I think they did this to keep me quiet for a week.... what they do not know is I will be much louder when this does not work...

The problem is AT&T, I say this as there are other people having this problem that are not on Charter but are hitting the same AT&T servers.

Like I have stated before, I will not give up on this..

Edit,
have you all sent your pings to the address that Lop posted.. ?

Jessica

03-19-2004, 05:58 PM

I spoke to our Director of NetOps and asked him to write up a brief explanation of what we (Turbine) can and can't accomplish in this situation with Charter and possible angles of attack:

"We’re an AT&T customer and if we were having problems with our uplink to AT&T, we could pressure them to get it fixed. However, we can’t do much to pressure them to fix someone else’s uplink. For one thing, although the information you’ve provided is very comprehensive, we simply don’t have the right tools to conclusively demonstrate where the problem is. Charter, as the company which is actually having the problem, does have the right tools. They can run exactly the tests AT&T needs to see, and we can’t.

There are too many variables between a cable modem and our servers for pin-point troubleshooting. As AT&T and Charter work on this issue, AT&T will need Charter to run pings, traceroutes, and other troubleshooting tests from the Charter routers. We can’t provide AT&T with that level of detail. We also can’t make any necessary changes to either the Charter routers or the AT&T routers.

You’re our customers and we take that very seriously. You’re also Charter’s customers, and Charter clearly also takes that very seriously. The best avenue of attack is to engage Charter’s customer support and make sure they’re pushing the issue up to AT&T."

KirillHuntersun

03-19-2004, 08:10 PM

Except that, if Charter tells AT&T that they have several customers complaining of an issue getting to someone on their network, AT&T WILL, not may but in fact WILL push this back to Charter, and you see what has happened above - that Charter is now claiming its a problem with peoples' modems, when it's pretty clear that if that problem is there, it's secondary.

If you go to AT&T and say, a lot of our customers are having issues staying connected to our servers, and the majority of them are in the East Coast region on Charter cablemodems, and Charter is treating this as an individual issue, AT&T MAY be able to contact charter on this as well. At minimum, you will get AT&T to stop claiming their network is clean as a whistle and actually look at the problem objectively.

And if whoever you've got over in NetOps tells you that that won't help, you should check their resume to see if they've ever worked at an ISP's NOC. Because if it does, then something's fishy. EVERY NOC guy on the planet knows the tendency to see their own network as clean, and they ALL know they're guilty of it to some extent. Turbine requesting AT&T to investigate issues to Charter customers on the East Coast prevents the "Not My Problem" attitude from interfering in the process.

riaf_nayr

03-19-2004, 09:43 PM

ok Jessica, it is not just Charter customers that are having a problem... As stated in my previous post...
So with that in mind you should presure AT&T, if you want the Tracerts then I will get them for you...

riaf_nayr

03-19-2004, 09:59 PM

Also I have been engaged Charter’s customer support for the past 4 week and over 20 calls to them, In total I have spent over 35 hours on the phone trying to take care of this.. I am doing all that I can, are you..? hmmmm

stafia

03-20-2004, 06:53 AM

your packetloss is not all about your ping or how fast you download information from the net it's all about sending and reciving packets from the net . this game is sending and reciveing many small packets so beter check first if your modem is good at negiciating with many small packets or spoke with your admin to put higher priority to the packets that are send and recived by ac

haved same prob here and from 15% loss drop to 2-3% maxim

sry my bad english .. :(

Avaton

03-20-2004, 09:39 AM

This smells like a duplex mismatch somewhere up the line.

lop-ibn-sung

03-20-2004, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by Jessica
I spoke to our Director of NetOps and asked him to write up a brief explanation of what we (Turbine) can and can't accomplish in this situation with Charter and possible angles of attack:

"We’re an AT&T customer and if we were having problems with our uplink to AT&T, we could pressure them to get it fixed. However, we can’t do much to pressure them to fix someone else’s uplink. For one thing, although the information you’ve provided is very comprehensive, we simply don’t have the right tools to conclusively demonstrate where the problem is. Charter, as the company which is actually having the problem, does have the right tools. They can run exactly the tests AT&T needs to see, and we can’t.

There are too many variables between a cable modem and our servers for pin-point troubleshooting. As AT&T and Charter work on this issue, AT&T will need Charter to run pings, traceroutes, and other troubleshooting tests from the Charter routers. We can’t provide AT&T with that level of detail. We also can’t make any necessary changes to either the Charter routers or the AT&T routers.

You’re our customers and we take that very seriously. You’re also Charter’s customers, and Charter clearly also takes that very seriously. The best avenue of attack is to engage Charter’s customer support and make sure they’re pushing the issue up to AT&T."

I wonder...how many customers would it take for you to get off your A$$ and do something? I know that only about 7 or 8 of us are posting here, but would you be able to pressure AT&T say if this affected 50 of your players? How about 500?...no not enough? How about 5000? At what point would you begin to feel the pain enough to actually attempt to contact AT&T on your players behalf?

If the answer lies somewhere between say 8 and all of your customers, then I will assume (I know it's bad form to assume) that means that individual customers mean little or nothing. Once again, it'a all about the mighty $. Unless you feel the sting financially, it's easier to ignore us or placate us with responses like the ones above then it is to actually do something....Great customer service, you will certainly go far with a philosophy like this.

I will let this be my final post on this topic, as wasting my time and my breath asking for assistance from people who just don't give a damn no longer seems like a good use of my time.

Sho Yu

03-21-2004, 08:15 AM

I have the same problem, i noticed it began recently when the ac data center moved from microsoft to the Turbine place.Think this was the january patch, sometime in jan anyway.

I play on Thistledown, how would i do a traceroute or ping to the server to see where the problem lies? Does TD have an ip?

BTW i use Telus high speed dsl

Delwic

03-21-2004, 09:39 AM

:rolleyes:

-Ald-

03-21-2004, 11:46 AM

Hey Sho Yu.. I never knew you were from Alberta.... although St Albert is kind of in a class of its own I hear ;)

IP's of AC servers
----------------------
LC - 12.169.18.126
DT - 12.129.18.139
TD - 12.129.18.151
MT - 12.129.18.164
HG - 12.129.18.177
FF - 12.129.18.190
SC - 12.129.18.203
WE - 12.129.18.213

My route log was posted earlier. You'll probably get a similar log. Run it several times and see where the general lag spikes are.

Its also funny that I noticed the lag when they moved the data centers too. I remember I went out to buy Need for Speed Underground while the servers were down. I thought that my installation of that game had caused me lag. After several reformats and upgrades to my system, I can safely say that its AC that is laggy.

Tidal

03-21-2004, 10:26 PM

I used NEOTRACE to see some more details about this problem and there is huge packetloss over the at&t routers

Here is a link to a screenshot of the trace:

Linky (http://webpages.charter.net/jayjr/file/packetloss.jpg)

EDIT: now i dont know if im reading that correctly, but thats alot of packetloss to be having ...

EDIT: is it possible to play this game through a proxy server? that may be temporary fix if its possible to reroute the data

Tuff Howard

03-21-2004, 11:38 PM

I ran neotrace express 5 times on the Solclaim server which has severe lag tonite and at hop 14 the results were all the same.

# IP Address Name RT(ms) Network
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 xxx.xxx.x.x. --- my cpu --- 0 -----
2 xxx.xxx.x.x --- my router --- 0 -----
3 64.230.254.6 ------- 28 --BELLCANADA-5
4 64.230.235.81 -- dis5-windsor12vlan101.in.--bellnexxia.net --22 -----
5 64.230.235.105 core2-windsor12-gigabite4-1.in.--bellnexxia.net --27 -----
6 64.230.235.117 -- core1-toronto63-pos6-15.in.--bellnexxia.net -- 24 -----
7 64.230.242.97 -- ----- -- 29 --BELLCANADA-5
8 64.230.242.118-- ----- -- 23 --BELLCANADA-5
9 207.45.198.1 -- if-7-0.core2.scarbourough.teleglobe.net -- 24 -- GLOBEINTERNET
10 207.45.222.182-- if-3-0.core2.chicago3.teleglobe.net -- 41 -- GLOBEINTERNET
11 207.45.220.45 -- if-7-0.core1.chicago3.teleglobe.net -- 39 -- GLOBEINTERNET
12 216.6.16.18 -- ix-8-0.core1.chicago3.teleglobe.net -- 38 -- TELEGLOBE-BLK
13 12.122.11.209 -- tbr2-p012702.cgcil.ip.att.net -- 38 -- -----
14 12.122.10.62-- tbr2-cl1.st6wa.ip.att.net -- --103 -- -----
15 12.122.5.170 -- gbr2-p100.st6wa.ip.att.net -- 99-- -----
16 12.123.44.62 -- gar1-p370.st6wa.ip.att.net -- 97 -- -----
17 12.122.255.150 -- mdf1-gsr12-1-pos-7-0.sea1.attens.net -- 97 -- -----
18 12.129.0.250 -- mdf1-bi8k-1-eth-1-1.seal.attens.net -- 98 -- -----
19 12.129.18.203-- ----- -- 99 -- -----

Tidal

03-22-2004, 01:15 AM

anyone with charter should also post their results from doing a

pathping xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx

where which the xxx... is you server, this tells packet loss over the network and helps troubleshoot where the problem is

and this isnt a turbine problem , its a chater problem so lay off turbine. this issue with charter cusomers isnt just for this game, try and to a pathping to microsoft.com or fsu.edu, they all have sever packacetloss over the at&t nodes

riaf_nayr

03-22-2004, 10:13 AM

Tidal,
I am assuming that you have seen the packet loss over the AT&T nodes. Are you a Charter customer? Can you email your pings to TJennette@chartercom.com ? and refernce ticket number 1405729 in your email...
Thanks...

I gotcha

03-22-2004, 10:14 AM

Well tidal you do NOT know what you are talking about! IT IS NOT CHARTERS FAULT! it is ATT.nets problem.....

Please do not post on this thread if you are too damn lazy to read the entire thing! Turbine DOES have some responsiblity here! They have their servers on ATT's new network!

Charter DOES have responsibility also as my ISP....they are harrassing att.net about their poor service, WHICH BY THE WAY IS MORE THAN TURBINE HAS BOTHERED TO DO!

I am not renewing my subscription as this has been a problem for over a month now! Too bad turbine does not have ANY customer focus at all! IF you would have tried to do something I would not have to cancel and leave a game I enjoy playing!

I gotcha

03-22-2004, 10:22 AM

Ohhh yeah....SO don't be telling me it is my cable modem as it is the SAME modem I have been using for the past 3 YRS to connect to AC! you guys ask for trace routes....LOOK AT THIS POST! I have posted them many times, along with others!

Tidal

03-22-2004, 10:34 AM

im not going to bother, go ahead and quit, your not hurting my feelings

riaf_nayr

03-26-2004, 03:48 PM

Ok here is the latest,

Charter came to my house today and did not find any problems here. The Tech did call me back to ask what time of day I have the packet loss problem and what are the IP address of the servers so Charter can monitor?

Has anyone noticed that the packet loss is less now then it has been in the past?
I am down to around 0.5 to 5% with it going up to around 12% from time to time. So something has changed as I was never below 5% with spikes to 25%....

I will be calling Charter tonight when I get off of work.. I will let you all know...

I gotcha

03-26-2004, 04:11 PM

the lag is better during the day...from around 9am to 3 pm eastern time.....but after that it spikes to 12% again...sometimes between 9 and 3 I get no lag..0 packelt loss for like 4 hrs....

I gotcha

Delwic

03-26-2004, 04:36 PM

An excerpt from Turbine's home page
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But, Turbine is much more than a business - it is about our passion and commitment. Like many of you, we are game players and enthusiasts. We love online gaming and the communities that it forms. We are fascinated by the way it draws people together and builds real-world relationships. Everyone at Turbine is very excited to be a part of this great company and to pioneer online games. We plan to release news about our upcoming projects in the near future. In the meantime, I would like to express our sincerest appreciation to our fans and shareholders whose support has directly contributed to the company's growth and prosperity.

Because of you, Turbine truly is "Powered by Our Fans."

Sincerely yours,

Jeff Anderson
CEO, Turbine Entertainment Software
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LOL...mere words sir. Please show me some passion and commitment from Turbine in this thread. There's passion from your fans who supposedly power your company, but no commitment from Turbine's tech support.

::heads out in search of contact information for Mr. Anderson::

I gotcha

03-26-2004, 04:46 PM

LOL that is a good one!

D X Mage

03-26-2004, 05:18 PM

You have to have a good number of people on your leg of the network that report the same problems before they start to take notice and apply any resources to it. At least that is what I have gathered from Mediacom. In talking with their support people even though we had determined that it was a network issue and that I could prove that other people were having the same problem they wouldn't do a thing till there were enough calls on the same issue before they would dispatch network personel to fix the bad piece of network equipment. How dumb is that? Most people here just say will this sucks and flip to the other broadband provider.

riaf_nayr

03-26-2004, 11:19 PM

I am still working with Charter, I finialy got a tech who knows what he is talking about and he actually cares...
I know we all have done tracerts but I am going to ask you all to do some more. When you post your tracerts include some info, ie are you using a router, State where you live, average packet loss, and if Charter is your ISP?

I am just going to put all the tracert's in an email to him...

I gotcha

03-29-2004, 11:05 AM

ok i will do it tonight and post results again!

riaf_nayr

03-29-2004, 09:03 PM

now Charter is telling me that my ticket has been resolved..
But it was resolved on March 18th.. then why did they send someone out to my house on March 26.. I am pissed now, getting the run around all over the place...

Hannibal

03-29-2004, 09:18 PM

I am not a member of Charter Cable but I have been experiencing some of the same connectivity problems as the rest
of you. I submit my tracert results for your consideration.

Things to note: I live in North Georgia, I use a dial up ISP, time of
this trace was 9:10 pm EST.

Tracing route to 12.129.18.225 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 222 ms 218 ms 221 ms xxx.xxxxxx.xxx [xx.xxx.x.x]
2 199 ms 221 ms 218 ms xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [xx.xxx.x.x]
3 264 ms 239 ms 299 ms atl-edge-15.inet.qwest.net [208.46.0.241]
4 204 ms 218 ms 218 ms atl-core-02.inet.qwest.net [205.171.21.29]
5 207 ms 218 ms 218 ms atl-brdr-03.inet.qwest.net [205.171.21.102]
6 227 ms 221 ms 218 ms 205.171.1.26
7 256 ms 239 ms 278 ms tbr2-p013702.attga.ip.att.net [12.123.20.254]
8 255 ms 260 ms 257 ms tbr1-cl1.dlstx.ip.att.net [12.122.2.89]
9 299 ms 299 ms 320 ms tbr1-cl2.la2ca.ip.att.net [12.122.10.50]
10 287 ms 338 ms 320 ms tbr2-cl3.sffca.ip.att.net [12.122.10.25]
11 320 ms 299 ms 338 ms tbr1-cl1.st6wa.ip.att.net [12.122.12.114]
12 294 ms 320 ms 299 ms gbr2-p40.st6wa.ip.att.net [12.122.12.162]
13 287 ms 317 ms 302 ms gar1-p370.st6wa.ip.att.net [12.123.44.62]
14 297 ms 299 ms 320 ms mdf1-gsr12-1-pos-7-0.sea1.attens.net [12.122.255.150]
15 284 ms 299 ms 479 ms mdf1-bi8k-2-eth-2-1.sea1.attens.net [12.129.0.238]
16 289 ms 320 ms 317 ms 12.129.18.225

Trace complete.

P.S sorry about the choppy format, but Im new to forum and have no clue how to expand width of text entry screen ;p

Jessica

03-29-2004, 09:50 PM

This is hardly a fair statement of the situation, but I understand where you're coming from. We talk to both of these companies regularly and the fact that the top guy in NetOps here is paying attention to the situation and that it is on my radar, too, should tell you something about our committment. Yeah, it is only 8 or 9 people having consistent problems, as you noted, but it still matters to us.

The problem is, we can scream until we're hoarse, but if Charter and AT&T won't cooperate, there is only so much that can be done. I say again that I truly wish the problem WAS with our hardware or set-up, because then I could at least get it fixed for you in a timely manner.

In the end, if you want them to fix the problem, you just have to keep doing what you are doing; numbers talk to these guys.

Originally posted by lop-ibn-sung
I wonder...how many customers would it take for you to get off your A$$ and do something? I know that only about 7 or 8 of us are posting here, but would you be able to pressure AT&T say if this affected 50 of your players? How about 500?...no not enough? How about 5000? At what point would you begin to feel the pain enough to actually attempt to contact AT&T on your players behalf?

If the answer lies somewhere between say 8 and all of your customers, then I will assume (I know it's bad form to assume) that means that individual customers mean little or nothing. Once again, it'a all about the mighty $. Unless you feel the sting financially, it's easier to ignore us or placate us with responses like the ones above then it is to actually do something....Great customer service, you will certainly go far with a philosophy like this.

I will let this be my final post on this topic, as wasting my time and my breath asking for assistance from people who just don't give a damn no longer seems like a good use of my time.

KirillHuntersun

03-29-2004, 10:15 PM

Jessica, I think that everyone understands that Turbine can't fix the issue. And you're right, numbers do speak to these guys.

But if the problem is in the neighborhood of AT&T's transit with Charter, ESPECIALLY IF IT'S ON THE AT&T SIDE, then AT&T is going to NOT push as hard on the issue and will naturally see the problem as being with Charter.

YOU can provide the numbers on the AT&T side far better than Charter or the players can possibly do, because YOU are AT&T's customer. Talking to AT&T and saying, "Hey, look, our customers on Charter are having massive issues getting to us, and Charter can't find a problem in their network. Will you put a bit of a higher priority on looking into this? It's starting to cause real problems for our customer base."

On the other hand, if you've done this, let us know so those of us with problems can hound Charter on the issue. The problem has to be either in Charter's East Coast area, or right near AT&T's transit to them. Ask them to take a look and things will get done with a bit more attention to detail.

I gotcha

03-30-2004, 10:55 AM

It is more than 8 or 9 people....that is what is really irritating me! IF turbine is saying something to AT&T then let us know! get a ticket number from them and we can let charter know on our end! Or perhaps you guys are not doing anything! If you have a ticket number I would really like to see Turbine post it up here! Then I would see that you are trying! until then I just feel used and abused by all this packet loss!

Jessica

03-30-2004, 10:57 AM

Oh, we've provided them with this thread and will do so again, :D. And we'll continue to make it an issue from this side.

Originally posted by KirillHuntersun
Jessica, I think that everyone understands that Turbine can't fix the issue. And you're right, numbers do speak to these guys.

But if the problem is in the neighborhood of AT&T's transit with Charter, ESPECIALLY IF IT'S ON THE AT&T SIDE, then AT&T is going to NOT push as hard on the issue and will naturally see the problem as being with Charter.

YOU can provide the numbers on the AT&T side far better than Charter or the players can possibly do, because YOU are AT&T's customer. Talking to AT&T and saying, "Hey, look, our customers on Charter are having massive issues getting to us, and Charter can't find a problem in their network. Will you put a bit of a higher priority on looking into this? It's starting to cause real problems for our customer base."

On the other hand, if you've done this, let us know so those of us with problems can hound Charter on the issue. The problem has to be either in Charter's East Coast area, or right near AT&T's transit to them. Ask them to take a look and things will get done with a bit more attention to detail.

riaf_nayr

03-30-2004, 11:53 AM

Ok, I was on the phone with Charter for 3 hours last night. Charter said that my ticket was resolved. This is when I flew off the handle, and asked to speak with the supervisor. I asked the supervisor to look at ticket 1405729, after reading this ticket he said that the problem is on the AT&T side. At this point I asked to have this information sent to me in an email, the supervisor said that he could not do that, but a teer 2 tech would be able to. I talked to a teer 2 tech again who tried to put me in contact with Cathy Reade a supervisor at Charter who is our advocate on this issue, at the time she was in a meeting. So the tech said that she would call me back in 15 min.... well I never got the call.

Charter also did say that there are many ISP's that are having this problem going through the AT&T backbone. How true that is, I do not know.

I also know that this problem is affecting far more than the 16 people posting to this thread, as you all know only a fraction of the people that play read these boards. I am also sure that many people that have this issue have not noticed the packet loss they just chalk it up to normal lag..

Also, I have found many posts of packet loss to other game servers and many of those post are also going through the AT&T back bone. So knowing this it looks like Charter is telling me the truth that many ISP's are having this problem with AT&T.

What do I do from here I do not know, but I will be calling Charter again tonight..

Jessica

03-30-2004, 12:02 PM

If I may, I'd like to use your ticket number during our own efforts here.

Originally posted by riaf_nayr
Ok, I was on the phone with Charter for 3 hours last night. Charter said that my ticket was resolved. This is when I flew off the handle, and asked to speak with the supervisor. I asked the supervisor to look at ticket 1405729, after reading this ticket he said that the problem is on the AT&T side. At this point I asked to have this information sent to me in an email, the supervisor said that he could not do that, but a teer 2 tech would be able to. I talked to a teer 2 tech again who tried to put me in contact with Cathy Reade a supervisor at Charter who is our advocate on this issue, at the time she was in a meeting. So the tech said that she would call me back in 15 min.... well I never got the call.

Charter also did say that there are many ISP's that are having this problem going through the AT&T backbone. How true that is, I do not know.

I also know that this problem is affecting far more than the 16 people posting to this thread, as you all know only a fraction of the people that play read these boards. I am also sure that many people that have this issue have not noticed the packet loss they just chalk it up to normal lag..

Also, I have found many posts of packet loss to other game servers and many of those post are also going through the AT&T back bone. So knowing this it looks like Charter is telling me the truth that many ISP's are having this problem with AT&T.

What do I do from here I do not know, but I will be calling Charter again tonight..

riaf_nayr

03-30-2004, 12:50 PM

I have no problem with using that ticket number or anything else that I have posted here. One thing to keep in mind is that is a Charter Ticket Number.. I will see if I can get the AT&T ticket number that Charter has with them...

Delwic

03-30-2004, 01:04 PM

...and if you need numbers to provide to AT&T Ms. Jessica, you might want to stress to them that this is affecting your income. I have cancelled all of our families accounts over this issue once it stretched past 1 month. I work hard for my money, and I like to play hard with it. Once I paid for an entire month where I couldn't play, I decided it was time to stop paying.

I don't blame Turbine for the problem, but I do blame you for taking so long to champion the cause of your customers (and if you have been, then the communication to us as customers is lacking). Since it's been over a month and a half that we have been able to play AC, we've discovered other online RPG worlds, and I can't honestly say that even if this problem is fixed that we'll reactiviate our subscriptions. We tend to be very loyal to companies who appreciate our patronage. Having been driven away from AC over this issue, the chances of us trying either of your new offerings are now slim. By then we anticipate being firmly rooted in our new world, and uninterested in starting somewhere else. There are some real numbers for you...maybe we are the only ones who have decided not to spend hour upon fruitless hour on the phone getting nowhere (my hats off to those of you who have), but I'd be willing to bet there are others (I knew nothing of this board until I started researching this problem). I stopped fighting when I was required to take a half a day off of work so the Charter tech could come to my house and tell me what I already knew. When a customer feels the companies don't care what difficulties they are experiencing, the only thing left to do is to stop paying for the service. So there are some numbers for you m'lady, 4 customers (my family) who thoroughly enjoyed AC since beta and had no plans on leaving, now former Turbine customers, and becoming satisfied customers of a rival company.

I wish you nothing but the best, it was just too little too late for this consumer.

Regards,

Del

KirillHuntersun

03-30-2004, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by Jessica
Oh, we've provided them with this thread and will do so again, :D. And we'll continue to make it an issue from this side.

Thanks Jessica.

Guys, this is all they can realistically do on the issue. Once AT&T knows that one of their own customers is seeing problems and starts pressuring them to do something about it, it stops being "the other network's problem" and becomes their own problem that they need to look into.

Especially in the case of a customer that I expect is as large as the Turbine datacenter properties. (That's a LOT of servers, folks. :) )

Lethol-HG

03-31-2004, 03:37 AM

Ok, I am with Charter to. I am in So Cal. I just got cable about a month ago and everything has been great up till i switched from the rented modem to one I bought. As soon as the new modem was in and working I was have the same problem that was talked about here. I could log in but after about 10 mins or so i would get mad packet loss and ping spikes in the 30000. Then I would lag out and could get back unless I reboot computer, and that was only work sometimes. Well I call charter and they did some check and said there was nothing wrong. but after they check into things its been pretty much fixed for me. I am gonna include a trace route for ya. If you have any other questions I will check back here. I also did some tcp tweaks and asked to be put on a different ip block to see if i could get hopped around the att hops.

Lethol

NeoTrace Version 3.25 - TRIAL Trace Results
Target: 12.129.18.177
Date: 3/31/2004 (Wednesday), 12:29:20 AM
Nodes: 15

Node Data
Node Net Reg IP Address Location Node Name
1 - - xx.xxx.xxx.xx Sunnyvale bgd-vqwsr60ljhd
2 1 - 10.227.192.1 Unknown
3 - - 0.0.0.0 Unknown No Response
4 - - 0.0.0.0 Unknown No Response
5 2 1 67.72.116.5 Los Angeles so-6-0-0-0.gar2.losangeles1.level3.net
6 3 1 209.247.9.221 Los Angeles so-0-0-0.gar1.losangeles1.level3.net
7 4 1 64.152.193.82 Los Angeles att-level3-oc48.losangeles1.level3.net
8 5 2 12.123.29.2 Los Angeles tbr1-p014001.la2ca.ip.att.net
9 6 2 12.122.10.25 San Francisco tbr2-cl3.sffca.ip.att.net
10 7 2 12.122.12.114 Seattle tbr1-cl1.st6wa.ip.att.net
11 8 2 12.122.12.162 Seattle gbr2-p40.st6wa.ip.att.net
12 9 2 12.123.44.62 Seattle gar1-p370.st6wa.ip.att.net
13 10 3 12.122.255.150 Seattle mdf1-gsr12-1-pos-7-0.sea1.attens.net
14 11 3 12.129.0.250 Seattle mdf1-bi8k-1-eth-1-1.sea1.attens.net
15 12 - 12.129.18.177 Seattle

Packet Data
Node High Low Avg Tot Lost
1 0 0 0 1 0
2 10 10 10 1 0
3 ---- ---- ---- 2 2
4 ---- ---- ---- 2 2
5 13 13 13 1 0
6 18 18 18 1 0
7 43 43 43 1 0
8 41 41 41 1 0
9 41 41 41 1 0
10 56 56 56 1 0
11 48 48 48 1 0
12 70 70 70 1 0
13 47 47 47 1 0
14 72 72 72 1 0
15 73 73 73 1 0

Network Data
Network id#: 1

OrgName: Internet Assigned Numbers Authority
OrgID: IANA
Address: 4676 Admiralty Way, Suite 330
City: Marina del Rey
StateProv: CA
PostalCode: 90292-6695
Country: US

Network id#: 2

OrgName: Level 3 Communications, Inc.
OrgID: LVLT
Address: 1025 Eldorado Blvd.
City: Broomfield
StateProv: CO
PostalCode: 80021
Country: US

Network id#: 3

OrgName: Level 3 Communications, Inc.
OrgID: LVLT
Address: 1025 Eldorado Blvd.
City: Broomfield
StateProv: CO
PostalCode: 80021
Country: US

Network id#: 4

OrgName: Level 3 Communications, Inc.
OrgID: LVLT
Address: 1025 Eldorado Blvd.
City: Broomfield
StateProv: CO
PostalCode: 80021
Country: US

Network id#: 5
AT&T WorldNet Services ATT (NET-12-0-0-0-1)
12.0.0.0 - 12.255.255.255
AT&T Worldnet Services ATTSVI-12-122-0-0 (NET-12-122-0-0-1)
12.122.0.0 - 12.123.255.255

Network id#: 6
AT&T WorldNet Services ATT (NET-12-0-0-0-1)
12.0.0.0 - 12.255.255.255
AT&T Worldnet Services ATTSVI-12-122-0-0 (NET-12-122-0-0-1)
12.122.0.0 - 12.123.255.255

Network id#: 7
AT&T WorldNet Services ATT (NET-12-0-0-0-1)
12.0.0.0 - 12.255.255.255
AT&T Worldnet Services ATTSVI-12-122-0-0 (NET-12-122-0-0-1)
12.122.0.0 - 12.123.255.255

Network id#: 8
AT&T WorldNet Services ATT (NET-12-0-0-0-1)
12.0.0.0 - 12.255.255.255
AT&T Worldnet Services ATTSVI-12-122-0-0 (NET-12-122-0-0-1)
12.122.0.0 - 12.123.255.255

Network id#: 9
AT&T WorldNet Services ATT (NET-12-0-0-0-1)
12.0.0.0 - 12.255.255.255
AT&T Worldnet Services ATTSVI-12-122-0-0 (NET-12-122-0-0-1)
12.122.0.0 - 12.123.255.255

Network id#: 10
AT&T WorldNet Services ATT (NET-12-0-0-0-1)
12.0.0.0 - 12.255.255.255
AT&T Worldnet Services ATTSVI-12-122-0-0 (NET-12-122-0-0-1)
12.122.0.0 - 12.123.255.255

Network id#: 11
AT&T WorldNet Services ATT (NET-12-0-0-0-1)
12.0.0.0 - 12.255.255.255
CERFnet ATTENS-SEA1-1 (NET-12-129-0-0-1)
12.129.0.0 - 12.129.63.255

Network id#: 12
AT&T WorldNet Services ATT (NET-12-0-0-0-1)
12.0.0.0 - 12.255.255.255
CERFnet ATTENS-SEA1-1 (NET-12-129-0-0-1)
12.129.0.0 - 12.129.63.255
TIG/Microsoft Corporation ATTENS-009262-002819 (NET-12-129-18-0-1)
12.129.18.0 - 12.129.18.255

Registrant Data
Registrant id#: 1
Registrant:
Level 3 Communications, Inc
(DOM-395996)
1025 El Dorado Blvd
Broomfield
CO
80021
US

Registrant id#: 2
Registrant:
AT&T Corp. (ATT2-DOM)
55 Corporate Drive
Bridgewater, NJ 08807
US

Registrant id#: 3
Registrant:
AT&T Enhanced Network Services (ATTENS3-DOM)
POB 919014
San Diego, CA 92191-9014
US

_____
NeoTrace Copyright ©1997-2001 NeoWorx Inc
406a8156
97 34

Widsith

03-31-2004, 11:58 AM

Just out of curiousity, does everyone who is having problems have Charter's 2 meg service? I read through the posts and it looks like most people have that. I have Charter's slower service and have never had a problem with packet loss or ping times. Is it possible that Charter's 2 meg connection does not mesh well with a slower backbone and that the problem is similar to the kind of problem you would get going from a 4 lane freeway to a one lane 25mph road? I don't know enough about the way this stuff works, but it seems logical to me that connecting a fast system to a slow system could cause bottlenecks. Particularly in an online game where a lot of information has to go back and forth across the interface.

lop-ibn-sung

03-31-2004, 12:29 PM

I did just switch to a 2 meg system. I don't know for sure if the trouble coincided with the change or not.

Perhaps I will work on trying the lower rate tonight and report back.

riaf_nayr

03-31-2004, 01:54 PM

Do not bother with that Lop... as I had the problem with no changes to my cable service in over a year...

I gotcha

04-01-2004, 04:01 PM

I had the problem before I upgraded...I called to complain about the problem and ended up doing the 2 meg by the end of the call to see if that helped with the packet loss!

riaf_nayr

04-06-2004, 09:02 PM

I am on the phone right now with charter,, they are telling me now that there is not a problem..

I got to teer 2 support but there is a note on my account not to let me get to teer 2 and not to let me talk to a suppervisor... Hmmmm They do not want to deal with me anylonger,

If this is going to get solved we need to get as many people together and let both Charter and AT&t know that there is an issue....

I am currently on hold again...

-Ald-

04-06-2004, 09:05 PM

I have since quit playing ac because the lag has been atrocious. I log on every other day or so, test it out and then find myself logging off because I simply cannot function in-game. I tell my character to heal, and I sit taking damage.. waiting for my guy to heal... waiting.. waiting. ... waiting... oops, dead.

riaf_nayr

04-06-2004, 09:27 PM

Tell me about it -Ald- , I am not giving up, but I am at the point to where I am paying for 7 accounts and only 2 are being played and I have to ask my self why pay for something you are not using... :(

Well The Supervisor is going to call me back in the morning.. We will see if that happens..

It looks like Charter is not going to do any more on this. AT&T is not doing anything... Looks like no one cares...

Jessica, The Packets being sent back and forth are UPD. Right?

Well enough for me tonight, I will once again take up this fight tomorrow... Night All...

lop-ibn-sung

04-07-2004, 08:00 AM

I too am being told that I am not allowed to talk to the tier II support any longer either.

Interesting side note:

I got in contact with AT&T...They informed that since I am not a direct customer of theirs, I couldn't request anything from them. Even if I could prove there was a problem, they would not/could not act on it unless Charter called them and requested it. Now here's where it get's interesting. (The guy from AT&T was actually quite nice) The AT&T rep asked what IP address I was having trouble getting to. I gave him the HG server IP address. He said "Let me run a tracert"....the problem is, these morons run tracert's from their location...guess what....they don't even go through the same HOPs that we do! In other words, they take an entirely different route, then say "We don't see a Problem!" well duhhhhh!

Now, here's where it get's sticky. Charter no longer wants to help us, because it's "Just a Game issue", and they have taken a new stance that they don't guarantee game related performance issues. So even though they are the only ones who can request AT&T to fix the problem, they are refusing to act on our behalf.

So let me recap. The problem appears to be with AT&T. Unless you are an AT&T customer, you cannot ask for them to do anything. Charter no longer has any interest in helping us, since it's "not their problem" and Turbine also doesn't appear to want to get involved.

In short, find a new game!

riaf_nayr

04-07-2004, 11:48 AM

Well, I just called Charter again and for some reason I went right to teer 2 support.
Well I did manage to get my origional Ticket re-opened (1400171).
Charter at this time is contacting AT&T to once again get my ticket solved, and his supervisor is going to call me back. We will see if this happens. I will let you all know....

riaf_nayr

04-07-2004, 06:07 PM

well I waited all day for a call from Charter and guess what.....

NO Call.... :mad: :mad: :mad: Should I expect anything different....

lop-ibn-sung

04-07-2004, 07:41 PM

I too was supposed to get a call from two different Charter representatives...neither called.

I did however learn something interesting. When I asked ibn if Turbine was going to help us or not, and also pointed out the fact that this all started about the same time the servers were "moved" aka Turbine took over control...here is his response:

Ibn wrote on 04-07-2004 04:44 PM:
Yes, that's when we moved onto AT&T's backbone, and the problem as far as we can tell is with AT&T and Charter.

Interesting little factoid don't you think?

Drexx

04-10-2004, 01:50 AM

I am also having severe problems ... ran a trace route and it seem for me to be coming fron Alter.Net ... who are these people ??

Playing in Canada.

-Ald-

04-10-2004, 01:54 AM

Calgary, Alberta

Shaw Highspeed Cable

Drexx

04-10-2004, 01:59 AM

you too Ald ?

With a new trace route I got high 100's and one line was 250+ at att.net

So it seems AT&T is at fault !!!

-Ald-

04-10-2004, 02:03 AM

yeah.. after many many traceroutes there is definitely a problem with the AT&T lines. Some spikes every now and then at other places too, but more often than not with AT&T. I swear thats where the packets are dropping =/

Drexx

04-10-2004, 02:08 AM

so what is your in game experiance like ?
you gettin the RD light on your modem flashing and thats it ?
Frozen !!

Thats all I see .... I can't hardly play. Let alone fight anything .... I die very quick !!

This SUX

Check you PM's -Ald-

-Ald-

04-10-2004, 02:13 AM

honestly I couldn't tell you. Its so trying at times I just want to delete my toons.

Going from 80-200ms ping and 0% packet loss without fail. Its been like that for years. Now its 10% loss and 2000 ping =/ I will stand there and try to heal, or cast a war spell with my mage and it just doesn't take effect. =/

460 buffed run and I'm being passed by people with 250 run. I can't take my clan questing. I am a liability =/

Drexx

04-10-2004, 02:19 AM

check your PM's

Drexx

04-10-2004, 10:14 PM

This in game lag is horrendous !!!!

FIX IT !!!
I have checked with everyone at my ISP. They are telling me the problem is at ALTER.NET, AND at ATT.NET !!!!

Trying to playing in Canada here !!!

lop-ibn-sung

04-11-2004, 08:39 AM

If it's on AT&T, there is nothing you can do. Unfortunately only your ISP can contact AT&T on you behalf and request that they fix the problem. They won't even listen to you unless you are an AT&T customer.

Curious enough, this issue all began when Turbine took over responsibility for the servers and put them on the AT&T backbone...

According to ibn, they are looking into this, but that and a dollar seventy five will get you a cup of coffee at Dunkin Donuts. While many aspects of communication have improved, getting updates on what Turbine is doing to resolve this situation is proving to be somewhat more difficult.

Perhaps you should PM ibn and or Jessica and ask for a status update on what is being done to identify the packet loss issue and when we can expect to have it fixed...

riaf_nayr

04-11-2004, 06:31 PM

Drexx and Ald,
If you can contact you ISP and ask them to contact AT&T, as the more people that we can get to contact AT&T the more they will listen. As of now AT&T does not think there is a problem.

riaf_nayr

04-12-2004, 09:39 PM

Tried to play tonight, went to Olthoi North and it was hell trying to do anything took 5 sec for my first arrow to shoot and running any where was like running in mud.. packet loss was up around 12+ % and ping times were at 2000ms and spiked to over 6000ms at times...
I will be back on the phone tomorrow with Charter But I already know what they are going to tell me... "there is nothing that we can do, and we do not support your game servers." At that point the fight will once again begin..
I will let you know.

-Ald-

04-13-2004, 10:08 PM

http://internetpulse.keynote.com/1/AT_T_to_Level3/

fun stuff.. AT&T going through San Francisco is rated at critical.

=/

-Ald-

04-13-2004, 10:41 PM

For all you Shaw Highspeed Internet customers, please contact

internethelp@sjrb.ca

with a detailed description of what is going on as well as trace logs and whatnot. If we have a significant number of people contact this address with the same problem, they will contact AT&T and put pressure on them as well.

Chainfx

04-14-2004, 10:29 PM

I've been having the same problems; except that I can log in but as soon as I click a character to log in it gets stuck in portalspace and eventually redlinks and loses server connection. I replaced my portal.dat with one a couple months ago and it just loses server connection once it gets to about 8%.

So I'm getting extremely upset with Charter Communications, I didn't start having these problems until around the time Turbine moved; same as everyone else.

I'm in Washington state tho, unlike the majority of you being on the east coast.

/me shrugs

I gotcha

04-16-2004, 10:19 AM

Well as you can tell....This only affects a few of us...maybe 20 people that have posted! LOL Turbine will not do anything about as they think this problem will go away! IT WILL NOT GO AWAY UNTIL THEY FIX ATT.NET!

Turbine you are crazy if you think this only affects a few people! As I bet more and more folks are going to leave your game because of high pings and packet loss! MOST players do not even know about these forums, and even if they did....YOU don't listen to your customers anyways! I am done paying my 13 bucks....2 and half years I have been playing Thanks for nothing! I will not be renewing my account this time around....it has been over 2 months now!

lop-ibn-sung

04-16-2004, 11:50 AM

I too will be unsubscribing when I get home. I realize nobody cares...and that's ok I guess.

I am terrribly disheartened by the lack of concern....or the complete and utter lack of communication regarding the efforts being made, if any actually are.

It's summer and it's time to go outside. Good luck to all those who continue to struggle with this issue. I hope that it gets fixed soon, but I have my doubts. 4 months of poor quality and a complete and utter lack of response is unacceptable. I only wish there was a way to get back my $50.00

riaf_nayr

04-16-2004, 02:44 PM

Hmmm Ok What do I do.

I had a call from Charter today, I spoke to a manager and he gave me the whole song and dance that Charter does not support on line game issues, and I am able to connect to the internet so there is nothing that Charter can do.. Well, I do not take no for an answer so after about 30 min, he decided that he will look into it a bit more. He is also getting me the ticket number that they had opened with AT&T so I can give that to Turbine.

With that being said I think he just wanted to get me off the phone.

I think if we want Charter to listen to us then we will need to get together as a group then contact Charter. If we take this route then we need to find as many people that we can that has this problem, and not only people connecting to the AC servers.
If you want to take this route then let me know so we can get organized.

Drexx1

04-17-2004, 02:50 AM

Me and Ald are here in western Canada, so you are not the only one in the west with this problem there Riaf....

I also am dishearted by this .... I have 2 accounts in which I have now cancelled the subscriptions !!!

Goodbye AC, and Goodluck Turbine.

This game is DEAD ! :mad:

shlinky

04-17-2004, 04:11 AM

its not just charter.

I am with comcast in IN and have had several problems with latency issues, massive packetloss and overall poor performance...

there are only 4 people on my hub so its not like bottlenecking is going on here.

Drexx1

04-18-2004, 06:04 PM

Still not Fixed !!!!

:mad:

Sholan

04-18-2004, 06:59 PM

This is sad, ya'll need to stop blaming Turbine for this. In all honesty I've been in their shoes and what they are saying is correct. They've done the most anyone can do, which is contact their provider who will contact the system with the issue.

Call your cable modem provider and explain to them the issue daily, hourly if need be.

Using an analogy to help explain things, telling the company that stocks soda that the soda doesn't taste like it use to isn't going to get you anywhere.

lop-ibn-sung

04-19-2004, 07:52 AM

Well Sholan, what you don't seem to comprehend, is that the entire problem started when Turbine moved the servers onto the AT&T backbone. So, since the vast majority of us didn't have problems before the move, and all of us have trace the issue to AT&T, and since none of us are AT&T customers...but Turbine is an AT&T customer... it most certainly is their responsibility to get this fixed.

PS> I have been on the phone every day for the last 3 1/2 months with my isp trying to work it from that end...what has Turbine been doing? It certainly would be nice if they could post something now wouldn't it?

I gotcha

04-19-2004, 10:13 AM

Sholan.....shut the hell up! Turbine DECIDED to switch their servers to ATT.net! They are a customer of them, a mighty expensive customer I would gather! If turbine does not have the power to make them fix outdated routers(more and likely the problem, or too much traffic for them to handle) then they should move their servers!

ALOT of people are having this problem! More than turbine will admit too! They are losing a loyal customer base because they can not handle one situation with their ISP provider!

How you think that it is my isp is beyond me! They are providing me internet....with NO problems, except one! Servers on att.net are losing packet loss...DO you honestly think that charter can get them to fix it? I believe this issue may go beyond them, this is basically a isp which is part of the internet backbone! They are not providing the service to accomodate the traffic they have!

They will not listen to charter, as they will not listen to any of us! The only real customer here is Turbine! They can threaten to move their buisness to someone else....BUT I am guessing that turbine has no plans to stand up to them and make them fix it or move to someone else! This problem is 3 months old....and all Turbine gives is a bunch of lip service!

Turbine said they were going to open a ticket and get this resolved, I asked if they would please post their ticket number so we could see if they were actually doing something.....THEY POSTED NOTHING!

I honestly believe that Turbine is stumped on this issue and they don't know how to get att.net to fix their problem! Their are clearly enough trace routes on this post alone to send to an att rep and have them look into it! BUT that would mean a Turbine rep to actually read this entire thread, CARE ABOUT THEIR CUSTOMER AND ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING rather than just more lip service! I am disgusted that I can no longer play a game that I truely love and miss! *AMN YOU!

Kai Arwensun

04-19-2004, 12:25 PM

Since this thread has been viewed well over 7,000 times it seems to me that more people are having problems than the number of posts would indicate.
I too am getting fed up with the way I have been forced to play the game that I love. Not a packet loss problem, but lag and freeze and I can barely move the cursor at times. It all started for me about two weeks ago (beginning of April) after several years of relatively trouble free playing. I logged out one day because of worlds coming down for whatever...and when I logged back on later that day- this problem was there and has been ever since with varying degrees of severity. I don't know what a normal roundtrip "ping time" is supposed to be, but when mine is over 2000ms my game comes to a standstill.

Orkin_Lady

04-19-2004, 01:50 PM

Ok. I read the boards every day but I have never posted before. However, my husband and I are having the same issues with our ac connection. I don't know much about all of the technical stuff but I do know that I have died five or six times from this. All in difficult locations. When it takes me an hour to log back on and I get stuck in attack mode unable to move, heal, log out, or chat and die on the way to a corpse retrieval you can guess that I get pretty frustrated. My husband and I BOTH died last night at Tusker Holding while I was leading a fellow. It took an hour and a half for us to get a solid connection long enough to do a corpse retrieval. I guess. I am just gonna check boards daily till something is done. This has been going on since a few days before the patch and I am really tired of logging on and fighting connection rather than getting to play. I guess orkin lady and arian will get a long rest till someone comes up with something to fix it. Just wanted to post so that someone could see there are other people out there having the same issue.

Nova_Cat_HG

04-19-2004, 04:09 PM

HG player from Denmark, i have same the same problem as most of you describe. Lag, packet loss ect.

I did a traceroute

Date/Time: 19-April-2004 21:48:06

1---- 0 ms [xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
2----0 ms [ips local network]
3----0 ms [ips local network]
4----0 ms [ips local network]

5----1 ms__kbn-b1-pos4-0.telia.net [213.248.101.53]

6----1 ms__kbn-bb2-pos0-2-0.telia.net [213.248.65.17]

7---93 ms__nyk-bb2-pos5-0-0.telia.net [213.248.64.34]

8---96 ms__telia-gw.n54ny.ip.att.net [192.205.32.49]

9---96 ms__tbr1-p011601.n54ny.ip.att.net [12.123.1.122]

10--119 ms__tbr1-cl1.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.122.10.2]

11--120 ms__tbr2-cl2.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.122.9.134]

12--171 ms__tbr2-cl1.st6wa.ip.att.net [12.122.10.62]

13--170 ms__gbr1-p40.st6wa.ip.att.net [12.122.5.162]

14--170 ms__gar1-p360.st6wa.ip.att.net [12.123.44.58]

15--171 ms__mdf1-gsr12-1-pos-7-0.sea1.attens.net [12.122.255.150]

16--173 ms__mdf1-bi8k-2-eth-2-1.sea1.attens.net [12.129.0.238]

17--173 ms [12.129.18.177] (HG)

riaf_nayr

04-19-2004, 05:21 PM

Nova_Cat_HG Thank you for your tracert,, You are hitting the same AT&T nodes that the rest of us are.

Orkin_Lady next time you are in game check to see if you are having packet loss. Most of us if not all of us are having anywhere from 5% to 30% packet loss during peek playing times. I have this packet loss just standing at my villa. Also if you could do a tracert and post it would be helpful. If you do not know how we can tell you step by step.

Chainfx you are on the west coast, Could you do a tracert also, I am very interested in seeing how you get to the servers, if you come to the east coast before going to the servers.

Our problems did start when the servers moved to AT&T.

At first we thought it was a Charter issue, but others not on Charter are having the same issues and they take the same AT&T hops as we do.

In all of my searching I did find other posts of packet loss issues to other servers and they also are going through AT&T.

With that being said I am convinced that this is an AT&T issue.

Edit for spelling...

Same T'ing

04-20-2004, 10:31 AM

Duplicate

Same T'ing

04-20-2004, 10:43 AM

It's not juist charter, people ... I can no longer even
play AC ...

Jessica, you need to DO something ... Time for talk is well past

Same

Here's my mid morning trace ... But the lock up issue
is much more damaging ... This is just to compare the servers
on the AT&T that I am going through

6 30 ms 11 ms 10 ms gbr1-p55.sl9mo.ip.att.net [12.123.198.6]
7 30 ms 40 ms 30 ms tbr2-p013502.sl9mo.ip.att.net [12.122.11.113]
8 10 ms 20 ms 20 ms tbr2-cl7.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.122.10.45]
9 60 ms 60 ms 70 ms tbr2-cl1.st6wa.ip.att.net [12.122.10.62]
10 80 ms 61 ms 60 ms gbr1-p40.st6wa.ip.att.net [12.122.5.162]
11 60 ms 60 ms 50 ms gar1-p360.st6wa.ip.att.net [12.123.44.58]
12 60 ms 50 ms 60 ms mdf1-gsr12-1-pos-7-0.sea1.attens.net [12.122.255
.150]
13 50 ms 60 ms 60 ms mdf1-bi8k-1-eth-1-1.sea1.attens.net [12.129.0.25
0]
14 60 ms 70 ms 60 ms 12.129.18.177

Trace complete.

SwampFoxGB

04-20-2004, 03:43 PM

:( Hello one and all...I am not sure if what we are experiencing is the same as what you all are speaking about or not but here goes.
We have Charter as our ISP with a RCA cable modem. We have 2 pcs and use a Linksys 4Port Cable/DSL router....

Mine............................Hubby's

Dell Dimension..............Dell Dimension
XPS T700r........................XPS 8200
P3 700............................. P4, 1.3
128.......................................128
Win98SE.............................WinME
Linksys Fast Ethernet....CNet TPro200WL
Bandwidth..................Bandwidth
down: 1837kbits/sec...down: 350kbits/sec if lucky
up: 228kbits................up: 27kbits/sec if lucky

Charter is suppose to use "Proxy" and "Port 8080" but the router doesn't use any "proxy".

The only way I can get the higher bandwidth on my hubby's pc is if I remove the router and hook just his pc to the cable modem and use the Proxy Port 8080....but that doesn't help me cos then I don't have any internet.

All the settings on both pcs are the same(as they can be) except for the fact that I have duplicate Fast Ethernet adapter and duplicate TCP/IP....the tech that set mine up originally made a mistake but it works just fine.

How can I get that fast bandwidth on my hubby's pc without removing the router with mine attached? I've been working on this problem for months now......

Any ideas or help would be greatly appreciated..........

tribol

04-20-2004, 06:31 PM

Believe mine started on the first patch after data center move. Constant packet loss.

Tracing route to 12.129.18.139 (Darktide) over a maximum of 30 hops

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 8 ms 8 ms 8 ms cr1ge2-2ldsal.lds.al.charter.com [24.196.0.117]

4 9 ms 10 ms 8 ms er1ge2-0ldsal.lds.al.charter.com [24.196.0.1]
5 15 ms * * 65.90.64.17
6 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms 216.140.12.66
7 15 ms 13 ms 14 ms tbr2-p013402.attga.ip.att.net [12.122.12.49]
8 33 ms 30 ms 32 ms tbr1-cl1.dlstx.ip.att.net [12.122.2.89]
9 68 ms 68 ms 70 ms tbr1-cl2.la2ca.ip.att.net [12.122.10.50]
10 66 ms 68 ms 67 ms tbr2-cl3.sffca.ip.att.net [12.122.10.25]
11 91 ms 92 ms 92 ms tbr1-cl1.st6wa.ip.att.net [12.122.12.114]
12 91 ms 92 ms 92 ms gbr2-p40.st6wa.ip.att.net [12.122.12.162]
13 82 ms 82 ms 82 ms gar1-p370.st6wa.ip.att.net [12.123.44.62]
14 83 ms 82 ms 81 ms mdf1-gsr12-1-pos-7-0.sea1.attens.net [12.122.255
.150]
15 91 ms 92 ms 92 ms mdf1-bi8k-1-eth-1-1.sea1.attens.net [12.129.0.25
0]
16 * * * Request timed out.
17 * * * Request timed out.
18 * * * Request timed out.
19 * * * Request timed out.
20 * * * Request timed out.
21 * * * Request timed out.

Here is a sample of my 1024 ping to darktide.. Don't seem to be dropping any packets here.

Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=97ms TTL=48
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=101ms TTL=4
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=97ms TTL=48
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=96ms TTL=48
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=97ms TTL=48
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=97ms TTL=48
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=96ms TTL=48
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=97ms TTL=48
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=98ms TTL=48
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=197ms TTL=4
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=97ms TTL=48
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=98ms TTL=48
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=96ms TTL=48
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=98ms TTL=48
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=99ms TTL=48
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=563ms TTL=4
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=95ms TTL=48
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=96ms TTL=48
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=135ms TTL=4
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=97ms TTL=48
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=96ms TTL=48
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=98ms TTL=48
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=98ms TTL=48
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=97ms TTL=48
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=97ms TTL=48
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=98ms TTL=48
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=106ms TTL=4
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=116ms TTL=4
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=122ms TTL=4
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=98ms TTL=48
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=96ms TTL=48
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=97ms TTL=48
Reply from 12.129.18.139: bytes=1024 time=97ms TTL=48

Ping statistics for 12.129.18.139:
Packets: Sent = 104, Received = 104, Lost = 0 (0%
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 95ms, Maximum = 563ms, Average = 104ms

-Ald-

04-20-2004, 10:34 PM

NeoTrace Trace Version 3.25 - TRIAL Results
Target: 12.129.18.151
Date: 4/20/2004 (Tuesday), 8:42:20 PM
Nodes: 20

Node Data
Node Net Reg IP Address Location Node Name
4 1 1 64.59.130.66 51.000N, 113.750W rd1so-ge1-0-2.cg.shawcable.net
5 2 1 66.163.71.129 51.000N, 113.750W rc1so-pos14-0.cg.shawcable.net
6 2 1 66.163.76.10 Vancouver rc1wh-pos12-0.vc.shawcable.net
7 3 2 205.150.222.125 Vancouver pos5-0.gw3.van1.alter.net
8 4 2 152.63.137.134 Vancouver 0.so-1-0-0.xl2.van1.alter.net
9 4 2 152.63.138.90 Vancouver 0.so-7-0-0.tl2.van1.alter.net
10 4 2 152.63.8.2 Sacramento 0.so-2-0-0.tl2.sac1.alter.net
11 4 2 152.63.54.9 Sacramento 0.so-7-0-0.xl2.sac1.alter.net
12 4 2 152.63.52.229 Sacramento pos7-0.br5.sac1.alter.net
13 5 - 204.255.174.178 Sacramento
14 6 3 12.123.13.70 San Francisco tbr2-p013202.sffca.ip.att.net
15 7 3 12.122.12.114 Seattle tbr1-cl1.st6wa.ip.att.net
16 8 3 12.122.12.158 Seattle gbr1-p10.st6wa.ip.att.net
17 9 3 12.123.44.58 Seattle gar1-p360.st6wa.ip.att.net
18 10 4 12.122.255.150 Seattle mdf1-gsr12-1-pos-7-0.sea1.attens.net
19 11 4 12.129.0.238 Seattle mdf1-bi8k-2-eth-2-1.sea1.attens.net
20 12 - 12.129.18.151 Seattle

Packet Data
Node High Low Avg Tot Lost
1 0 0 0 1 0
2 ---- ---- ---- 8 8
3 35 23 27 4 0
4 35 14 16 4 0
5 19 12 13 4 0
6 36 25 27 4 0
7 95 27 60 4 0
8 58 23 30 4 0
9 102 29 75 4 0
10 72 47 55 4 0
11 104 41 43 4 0
12 63 41 52 4 0
13 76 48 58 4 0
14 102 102 102 7 6
15 48 48 48 5 4
16 43 43 43 5 4
17 43 43 43 5 4
18 52 52 52 5 4
19 75 62 67 3 0
20 190 71 119 3 0

Network Data
Network id#: 1

OrgName: Shaw Communications Inc.
OrgID: SHAWC
Address: Suite 800
Address: 630 - 3rd Ave. SW
City: Calgary
StateProv: AB
PostalCode: T2P-4L4
Country: CA

Network id#: 2

OrgName: Shaw Communications Inc.
OrgID: SHAWC-2
Address: Suite 800
Address: 630 - 3rd Ave. SW
City: Calgary
StateProv: AB
PostalCode: T2P-4L4
Country: CA

Network id#: 3

OrgName: UUNET Technologies, Inc.
OrgID: UU
Address: 22001 Loudoun County Parkway
City: Ashburn
StateProv: VA
PostalCode: 20147
Country: US

Network id#: 4

OrgName: UUNET Technologies, Inc.
OrgID: UU
Address: 22001 Loudoun County Parkway
City: Ashburn
StateProv: VA
PostalCode: 20147
Country: US

Network id#: 5

OrgName: UUNET Technologies, Inc.
OrgID: UU
Address: 22001 Loudoun County Parkway
City: Ashburn
StateProv: VA
PostalCode: 20147
Country: US

Network id#: 6
AT&T WorldNet Services ATT (NET-12-0-0-0-1)
12.0.0.0 - 12.255.255.255
AT&T Worldnet Services ATTSVI-12-122-0-0 (NET-12-122-0-0-1)
12.122.0.0 - 12.123.255.255

Network id#: 7
AT&T WorldNet Services ATT (NET-12-0-0-0-1)
12.0.0.0 - 12.255.255.255
AT&T Worldnet Services ATTSVI-12-122-0-0 (NET-12-122-0-0-1)
12.122.0.0 - 12.123.255.255

Network id#: 8
AT&T WorldNet Services ATT (NET-12-0-0-0-1)
12.0.0.0 - 12.255.255.255
AT&T Worldnet Services ATTSVI-12-122-0-0 (NET-12-122-0-0-1)
12.122.0.0 - 12.123.255.255

Network id#: 9
AT&T WorldNet Services ATT (NET-12-0-0-0-1)
12.0.0.0 - 12.255.255.255
AT&T Worldnet Services ATTSVI-12-122-0-0 (NET-12-122-0-0-1)
12.122.0.0 - 12.123.255.255

Network id#: 10
AT&T WorldNet Services ATT (NET-12-0-0-0-1)
12.0.0.0 - 12.255.255.255
AT&T Worldnet Services ATTSVI-12-122-0-0 (NET-12-122-0-0-1)
12.122.0.0 - 12.123.255.255

Network id#: 11
AT&T WorldNet Services ATT (NET-12-0-0-0-1)
12.0.0.0 - 12.255.255.255
CERFnet ATTENS-SEA1-1 (NET-12-129-0-0-1)
12.129.0.0 - 12.129.63.255

Network id#: 12
AT&T WorldNet Services ATT (NET-12-0-0-0-1)
12.0.0.0 - 12.255.255.255
CERFnet ATTENS-SEA1-1 (NET-12-129-0-0-1)
12.129.0.0 - 12.129.63.255
TIG/Microsoft Corporation ATTENS-009262-002819 (NET-12-129-18-0-1)
12.129.18.0 - 12.129.18.255

Registrant Data
Registrant id#: 1
See Registrant Pane for registrant contact information.

Registrant id#: 2
Registrant:
WorldCom, Inc. (ALTER-DOM)
2400 North Glenville
Mail Drop A-4133
Richardson, TX 75082
US

Registrant id#: 3
Registrant:
AT&T Corp. (ATT2-DOM)
55 Corporate Drive
Bridgewater, NJ 08807
US

Registrant id#: 4
Registrant:
AT&T Enhanced Network Services (ATTENS3-DOM)
POB 919014
San Diego, CA 92191-9014
US