When will you balance out pre-order gems?

[shizzuh]

It's probably been posted earlier, but the only thread I could find regarding the issue had been spammed by kids passing by and locked, so I'll post what I have to say in a new thread instead.

For returning Darktiders, or Darktiders that thought they could just go to a store and buy the expansion instead of purchasing an item on the web, this pre-order gem (or lack of thereof) is a huge issue. There are two main reasons:

Lack of tank ability in comparison to the existing playerbase
Lack of damage potential with Raven's Fury in comparison to the existing playerbase (which is a BIG deal on Darktide)

Now I don't mind Turbine offering their loyal players an extra treat. Hell, give them all the MMD-notes, Pyreals and sunflowers you want. But what I mind is when you unbalance PvP as a result of this. I must confess I'm a tad disappointed that you didn't think of this before you implemented it - especially since the rest was pretty well thought out!

Come again!

A constructive suggestion from the other thread was that you could make these health gems obtainable as augmentations. An awesome suggestion, since doing that would've given the loyal pre-order players roughly 4 billion free XP - a GOOD prize that is DEFINATLY worth having, but won't unbalance PvP.

[max_evil]

Agreed in pvp, thouse that have the pre-order gem have a big advange over thouse that do not.

It means the difference between one hit from Raven's Fury and surviving with minimal health.

-max

[Elminster']

Well for the people that kept into AC should have a advantage against the people who left for a long time.

[Thadda Al-Munik]

I think an aug for a gem to cast this should be in order. This way, those who pre-ordered, still have an advantage, and those who haven't still receive it at a cost.

[Dread_Og]

Just give everybody both gems. You are at a huge disadvantage in pvp without the hp gem, and this is quite possibly turning players away.

[HadleyBrin]

The reason behind this perfect example of AC's poor implementation is Jessica Mulligan, who is now long-gone thank god. She more-than-once expressed her dislike for pvp, and, I believe, is the single most detrimental thing/person to AC's past.

Something should definitely be done to balance this hp issue; especially now that Raven's Fury/Super CB crits are the hot items in pvp. That extra % of hp has decided the outcome of thousands of fights in which it could have been very different.

[ChildoftheKoRn]

Well for the people that kept into AC should have a advantage against the people who left for a long time.

Thats called xp/power.

And besides you didnt have to be playing when you got TOD you couldve just pre-ordered and got that. Havent seen such a worthless reply in awhile.

Yes pre-order gems are supposed to be super special because you paid x extra amount of $$$ in order to get the game, but they also got to play sooner, what else did they get? Yes Augmentation gems would be the best fix for this, it would not make the preorder gems worthless seeing how the people would have to work to earn them. balances out pvp, gives people something else to strive for, and makes ravens fury that much more powerful/survivable. They've had the gem now for quite a few months so its time to release it to the world, just like every other item thats ever been in the game.

[Hearth Beric]

Well for the people that kept into AC should have a advantage against the people who left for a long time.

QFT

[Hectorb911]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elminster'
Well for the people that kept into AC should have a advantage against the people who left for a long time.

QFT


The only truth here is that loyal customers like me who did stay around and payed during the extended times of no patches actually got Nothing.

anybody could have pre-oredered ToD. I did not preorder because I wanted to see what was actually being delivered.

So what is loyalty, paying for known times of no new patches or paying for a free month to try out the new uknown game?

[Hearth Beric]

The only truth here is that loyal customers like me who did stay around and payed during the extended times of no patches actually got Nothing.

anybody could have pre-oredered ToD. I did not preorder because I wanted to see what was actually being delivered.

So what is loyalty, paying for known times of no new patches or paying for a free month to try out the new uknown game?

Loyalty is sticking by a game company and not adopting a "wait and see" attitude. Trust me, if management caves in on this issue, they may as well never put out a "pre-order special item" again, because it will be worthless down the road. Further, if they say "Well, you can have the similar thing for 4 billion XPs, then they may as well start offering XPs for IRL $$ because that will in effect be what they retroactively gave the people who did pre-order ... a bauble that they paid money for to get, while the people who didn't pay IRL $$ have to spend XPs for.

That is my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

[Hectorb911]

Loyalty is sticking by a game company and not adopting a "wait and see" attitude. Trust me, if management caves in on this issue, they may as well never put out a "pre-order special item" again, because it will be worthless down the road. Further, if they say "Well, you can have the similar thing for 4 billion XPs, then they may as well start offering XPs for IRL $$ because that will in effect be what they retroactively gave the people who did pre-order ... a bauble that they paid money for to get, while the people who didn't pay IRL $$ have to spend XPs for.

That is my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.


Sticking by a game company?- like PAYING for months without content?

So by not waiting and seeing first you advocate to blindly give my money to whatever crap they may have decided to do with the game, whether I like it or not.

You, my friend, have a twisted view of loyalty. I see that my 6 months of payments which more than paid for the expansion pack twice over means nothing to you.
You also have not addressed the issue that ANYONE- new or returning player, could have pre-ordered,
That is the price of loyalty to turbine- Buy the new product. So by that definition, none of us here are loyal customers of turbine as we are not moving on to their newest game.

Believe me, If i had any idea that that was the way Turbine would repay my loyalty of remaining a paying customer- I would have unsubbed and returned when and IF ToD was released and to my liking.

I could still have gotten pre-order boxes months after ToD went live.
The cost was the same AFAIK so why penalize new or LOYAL players who did not or could not get the pre-order?

As for it meaning nothing, how about the DM upgrade given away free to all players? does that mean that new expansions mean nothing? C'mon...

[OldSchoolACPVP]

"Further, if they say "Well, you can have the similar thing for 4 billion XPs, then they may as well start offering XPs for IRL $$ because that will in effect be what they retroactively gave the people who did pre-order ... a bauble that they paid money for to get, while the people who didn't pay IRL $$ have to spend XPs for."



I paid 5 bucks a copy for pre ordering, and they subracted the $5 off the total price when I actually purchased the game. Didn't cost me any more money than it costed the next guy I don't think. What are you talking about?

[robthehand]

i have the pre order and im all for 4 bill aug gem for nonm pre order accounts.

giving people a extra edge in pk is dumb balence the field for all.

[ChildoftheKoRn]

i have the pre order and im all for 4 bill aug gem for nonm pre order accounts.

giving people a extra edge in pk is dumb balence the field for all.

GIVE THIS MAN A GDMF'IN MEDAL!

unbalance = unfair = unfun = more dropped accts

[Hearth Beric]

i have the pre order and im all for 4 bill aug gem for nonm pre order accounts.

giving people a extra edge in pk is dumb balence the field for all.

Honestly, I could care less what they do on DT. Give people the gem if it will stop the whine. Just don't do it where the vast majority of people play.

[robthehand]

hows this then. make the health gem a 4 bill aug and give all the people who pre ordered some stupid looking muliti colored robe thats no drop no give to so all the carebears are happy.

then i'll TC mine and go on my merry way with some balanced pk action!

[Frank The Knife]

I am all for the 4 bill augment to get the health gem.

It should be obtainable now. Think of it as a free 4 bill for preordering.

[OldSchoolACPVP]

hows this then. make the health gem a 4 bill aug and give all the people who pre ordered some stupid looking muliti colored robe thats no drop no give to so all the carebears are happy.

then i'll TC mine and go on my merry way with some balanced pk action!


Haha.


True.

[Buff Master B]

I pre-ordered and got screwed out of my gem because I "did'nt migrate all the way". Now they will do nothing about it. So I paid the extra $$ for what exactly? Between that, and all the people getting away with using GEAR, I'm ready to try out WoW.

[Shadow Spectre]

I for one purchased the pre-order and had faith in Turbine. I as many other received the benefit for our faith in them. Those of you who did not lost out on something good. Get over it. Don't ask for a balance to something you gave no faith in. You will just leave again when ever you get bored with things because you don't know how to enjoy the game. I don't think I should be penalized for sticking with the company and keeping the faith in what they do. If they offer the rest of the unfaithful the ability to get these gems then they have just spit in the faces of all those who have remained with them from the beginning. THis might cause those people like me to not stick with them like I have. I have and will remain with them through the years to come if the keep the game fun and reward those who have faith in them. Thanks Turbine for the great game and job that you do. Keep the faithful in a special place as we will continue to support you.

[robthehand]

yah great idea reward the faithful with a extra advantage in pk and piss off any new players or returning players the chance to have some fun. *sarcasm off*

alot of people have had to cancel accounts for some reason or another in the last 6 years. You ever hear about anything about the war in iraq? I know numerous people that I met IG who played AC the had to go over and serve.

Why is turbine punishing those people? I agree that people that pre ordered should get something as a bonus but lets not make it game unbalencing.

[Shadow Spectre]

Yes and I was one of them. I also had someone purchase the pre-orders for me while I was gone so I would have them when I returned. If you had faith in the game then you too would have purchased the pre-orders. Now you are mad because you did not get them when they had the chance and now you see the benefit we have. Why should they make it available to you? I even kept my accounts open when I was gone to help support Turbine with keeping the game going. Thats what I am talking about. Turbine rewarded those who had seen a future for AC and TOD, and thats what we recieved. I purchased pre-orders for three accounts I have. Turbine please don't deminish the reward I was given for staying with you. New players don't have something to complain about either. They had just as much time but did not purchase the pre-order either, so they missed out too.

[robthehand]

my point is i DO have the pre order. I think it's great. My complaint is on Darktide (the only server i have ever played) it unbalences the game.

AC pvp is a SKILL based game, though items and levels come into it the number one reason people are considered good pks is because they are SKILLED players.

If you have two lvl 200 mages and one has 470 health and one has 420 skill will make a big difference who wins but the 10% health increase has a huge impact as well.

People have been templating competing for years and high health mages vs lower health other chacters isnt my complaint. Its the rewarding people who were just lucky enough to be subscribed to AC at the time the preorder gem was offered.

Basically you do not see people who are runniong around with pre tod accounts anymore. Anyone who is playing pretty much has TOD by now. Make the pre order health gem a aug and even the playing field. Maybe give the pre order people a item they can only get or flagged for a special quest that they can only do as a thanks for pre ordering but not something as foolish as unbalencing the game just so people with a unfair advantage can continue playing without hurt feelings.

[ChildoftheKoRn]

Yes and I was one of them. I also had someone purchase the pre-orders for me while I was gone so I would have them when I returned. If you had faith in the game then you too would have purchased the pre-orders. Now you are mad because you did not get them when they had the chance and now you see the benefit we have. Why should they make it available to you? I even kept my accounts open when I was gone to help support Turbine with keeping the game going. Thats what I am talking about. Turbine rewarded those who had seen a future for AC and TOD, and thats what we recieved. I purchased pre-orders for three accounts I have. Turbine please don't deminish the reward I was given for staying with you. New players don't have something to complain about either. They had just as much time but did not purchase the pre-order either, so they missed out too.

Thanks for serving our country.

Now to the game. not every soldier could have someone buy it for them. And jsut because you pay for a game alittle earlier than others doesnt mean yous hould get a permanent bonus that can make an imbalance to pvp. And whose to say that people that were subscribbed since the beginning didnt care about the future to ac? 12.95 a month is different than 40 dollars in a lump sum. add them together 52.95 not countinng tax or shipping. in that one month thats a pretty good chunk of change for college students, kids tthat have cheap parents, or even non alchoholic peeps trying to find another escape.

Either damn way that doesnt mean that you should give anyone anything that would create an imbalance. They couldve done things like giving a bonus to how much slaavage you can get, or hell even a maxed out salvage skill cause that could contribute to the community or allegiance as well but only certain people could use it. They couldve given a % more loot per monster you've killed or something, they just didnt think about the repercusions that were to be created with this item.

[Shao Majii]

I've been gone quite a while, and am heavily considering coming back... Only this thread depresses me...

This has been an issue since before ToD's release, and here it is, many months later, almost a year even, and this is STILL an issue?

OMG. This is quite littereally the most broken factor in PvP, litterally the most unfair, and NOTHING has been done yet? Are there even patches? I mean, holy [explicative]! Has even an attempt been made, failed or otherwise?

Has anything been fixed at all, I wonder? What is so wrong at Turbine that nothing is done about this? Don't they realize this affects returning players, as well as new ones?

I shouldn't be stunned considering the track record (which is why I left) but I am. Who's in charge of balance over there? Fire them. They should be jumping up and down on everyone else's heads by now.

[ChildoftheKoRn]

I've been gone quite a while, and am heavily considering coming back... Only this thread depresses me...

This has been an issue since before ToD's release, and here it is, many months later, almost a year even, and this is STILL an issue?

OMG. This is quite littereally the most broken factor in PvP, litterally the most unfair, and NOTHING has been done yet? Are there even patches? I mean, holy [explicative]! Has even an attempt been made, failed or otherwise?

Has anything been fixed at all, I wonder? What is so wrong at Turbine that nothing is done about this? Don't they realize this affects returning players, as well as new ones?

I shouldn't be stunned considering the track record (which is why I left) but I am. Who's in charge of balance over there? Fire them. They should be jumping up and down on everyone else's heads by now.

Actually this isnt the worst part about balance, Tinkering in its entirety is. But this is a big problem, adds about 45 or so health when you have max health, that may not be a huge # but its still the difference between an extra hit(s). Not to mention we dont need to keep adding health to this game.

[max_evil]

This isn't about taking away a reward from pre order people.

This is about balance.

This particular reward breaks PvP balance.

Had they gotten a different reward that did not break the balance, to PvP. I wouldn't mind them having it, but in this case +10% health means a lot.

-max

[Krazed]

They should make the health gem tradable.

[Kid]

They should make the health gem tradable.

But who would actually be willing to trade theirs? The health gems would be like 2,000 MMDs to get thru trade and/or people would be selling it on ebay for $20.00. It's like economics class: the supply will be very low but the demand will be very high creating a shortage.

[robthehand]

i would trade the gem on my salvage mule for 2000mmd. That actually raises the question if I delete a chacter now to reroll that has the pre order gem does my reroll recieve the health gem?

[max_evil]

robthehand,

u know i would be ok with that.
at first they would be hella expensive.

It would even out the pvp field, while not taking away the reward pre-orders have. They could decided if they want to trade it away or not.

*Allow the pre-orders to reroll to recreate a new gem.*
but only them.

Think about it supply and demand.

At first they would be hella expensive,
as demand falls they'll come down in price.

-max

[Krazed]

i would trade the gem on my salvage mule for 2000mmd. That actually raises the question if I delete a chacter now to reroll that has the pre order gem does my reroll recieve the health gem?

I always thought the health gem should have been just bonded and only 1 per pre order account. this way the owner of the account could trade it away if he wanted to since it would be his own loss.

Maybe create a salvage that allows us to make the gem unbonded, but the account then loses the ability to recreate the gem when a new char is created on that account.

[Shadow Spectre]

Well I issue is with the reward Turbine choose to give. Yes they could have given something else to balance things out and if they offeren something else like tinkering or salvage increase that would be good too but Turbine needs to make the adjustment in that way. I still prefer the increase health and protection but would be willing to trade off for other benefits that are equal to this in another skill or attribute. Just to keep htis balance in your PvP game. I think the people who are palying mostly PvP have forgotten a big part of things. There is no such thing as a fair fight only winners and losers. You have to adapt and change to the changes in this game as they come. That the tough world of DT or as I have been told many many times. It's a hard world and balance in not an issue, survival is.

[Monster]

Shadow 99% of the people running around the hotspots on DT pvping have the gem. The other 1% are new players or returning players who weren't around when ToD came out. Anyone playing at the time knew they had to preorder or get perma gimped. They could make it cost a rediculous amount of xp or charge rl money for it but there's no reason everyone can't have a chance to get it at this point.

[max_evil]

Monster,

I agree

-max

[shizzuh]

I'd just appreciate to know if this issue will be fixed at some point in the future. Certanly the Dev team must have interest in supporting their game to newer costumers as well??

[ChildoftheKoRn]

This has come up before but I will say it again for those of you who might have missed it.

There are no plans to let others get the pre-order gem. While we are exploring options to give players something similar, we do not want to punish those who did go out and pre-order. Nor do we want to punish those players who could not get a pre-order box for whatever reason.

It is a fine line for us to tread on and as soon as we feel we have a solution, we will let you know.

That was takin from the general discussion by an o.0 thread thats talking about the imbalance it has on pvm. At least they got a reply and I can forward.

Although turbine does seem to be taking a greater interest into AC after ac2/ddo flopped. lets just hope LOTR fails so that we can get all the devs in ^_^.

We need a survey, we need to see how many people would outright quit AC if all aspects of pvp were takin away. Im sure if the % was high enough Turbine would see that there is a chunk of revenue that would go away if people didnt even play if there was no PVP that way they can see DT is more than just a s*** talk fest. Treat the PVP community right for we're paying customers 2 damnit!

[Jida]

I have said this before, if you are on DT you should get the GEM by default period.

Making it 4 billion to get? I don't know about a lot of you but 4 billion is not easy for everyone. I know in some fellows some people macro 1 billion a night but for the rest of us 4 billion is not something that grows on trees.

I just got 10 billion EXP total and Jida has a born on date of 03/00.

All arguments aside, why would you want to fight the same 20 people over and over again as the server dwindles?

Anything, and I mean anything, that can increase our numbers is = good.

Just give everyone the gem and tell all the pre-order folks that we paid $100 for it to make them feel superior.

Either do that or sit with a few folks and admire a number as the server shuts down from low population.

[DarkCard]

just make pre-order gems tradeable, but only one gem per character slot.

dont allow people to just keep rerolling characters in order to get more gems for trade.

[beecherhg]

...turbine...doesnt...care...

[Shadow Spectre]

Well back to this again but isn't DT suppose to be a harsh world where getting your butt kick was the norm, or is that only for the noobs. I guess I am confused about things. DT is not a normal world where things are fair for everyone. That was the draw of it. It was a hard life and people loved it that way. Now I hear people complain about those who have something they don't and also can't get. Well tough I hate to say but isn't that the way of things? I prefer to see things being unfair and hard. Make it more challenging. If you expect a fair and level playing field play somewhere else. I guess those who do not have the gems will have to use team work to defeat thsoe who do. Think about tactics people not about it's not fair. I think I have said enough about this and I hope people understand where I am coming from with this one sided view. Then again I don't care if anyone does, it a tough world out there and thats what everyone loved about DT.

[Shao Majii]

DT, the place to earn your keep. If you play DT, you've probly earned almost everything you ever had.

Earn your XP
Earn your loot
Earn your DI's
Earn respect
Earn your reputation
Earn your friends

DT is about two things: Competition and Earning. It has a price and if you work hard enough, you can have everything anyone before you has or had, with a few rare exceptions like certain pre-patch items... And even those can be earned if you have the power to take them or buy them...

But, this one thing is something that no matter how hard you try, no matter how much you earn, you are unable to earn it.

Why is this one thing the only of it's kind? It wouldn't be such a big deal if it didn't have the kind of impact on PvP that it has the potential to have.

Let's take another such example: Pre-patch GSA. What do we have now? An equal substitute that is forever doomed to never be as cool because it's not the golden PPGSA. But, it's no longer a balance issue like it once was (if only slight).

I would have to say the gem is almost exactly like the Pre-patch GSA was. That's why I have a problem with just "letting this slide."

The biggest difference: It is impossible to earn after the fact, and there is nothing even remotely compareable to it like there was with the GSA.

Oh and Hoary Robes, and Nexus Armor, and Shadow Stones for Atlan weapons.... The list is funny when you think about it. For everything but the Nexus armor, there is a relatively equal or similar item everyone can obtain... And all in the name of balance because people missed the chance at the original item. This gem shouldn't be treated any differently as the rest of the items in the game.

[max_evil]

Shao Majii,

well said.

-max

[Fyacin]

Just make a gem that adds 8% that doesn't stack with the preorder, and is some long involved quest/or you have to pay alot of xp. The preorder people get their extra 2% health (which is like 10 health with maxed health) and don't have to do the quest/pay xp for the 8% gem. Even in PvM it's a pain, when everyone has higher health than you because they ordered first. *shrug* Just an idea :) .

[MiraDT]

All my accounts have preorder and after stating that:

I think they should do something for people who dont have the gem. Make it an aug. Make it cost a lot (definately more then an extra pack slot cause it is far more useful), make it give a lower % (but not by much) like 7-9% and dont make it stack, or allow they giveable idea. I have had a year of having a distinct advantage over characters without it. That was well worth the 5 minutes and $0 Dollars i spent to preorder for my accounts. Most people who have a problem with this either bought the ToD keys for massive money and/or need the advantage to get kills so they dont want it to go away.

As for the comment about 1 gem per account... bad idea. I have 3 level 200+ characters on both my accounts and i would only have one gem to use on them? Lame.

It has been a year, as some have said, and about time that the distinct advantage for a small amount of work disappeared.

[Jida]

Why?

It makes no sense for it to exists on DT in any form.

Why raise the ability to survive on DT when damage is out of wack now? If you give everyone this gem then they will have to raise damage again.

Which is a stupid way of balancing content.

Get rid out it, it is poorly thought out, poorly desinged and poorly implemented.

There is no need for it to exist for anyone except for people who think Tugak is the best thing to happen to this server.

[Shao Majii]

Clue for you Jida: Damage was upped. In fact, it is supposedly the best it's been. Most of DT already has the gem and people generally seem happy with damage (at least here on the forums) as it is now.

Nope. The problem isn't about fights taking too long anymroe so that arguement doesn't fly in this case. Besides, damage will get boosted a touch down the road again anyway.

another note...
How are the Dev's supposed to balance PvP when some people have more health than others? Boost damage so people with more health die faster, and suddenly everyone without the extra health is basically dead reguardless.

Everyone needs the same oppritunity in order for there to be balance. That's why all that other stuff was changed, and part of why the nexus armor was removed from DT. It was supposed to be one person, but it got duped making it an issue. One person doesn't hurt the server really, but it became a have/have not issue-- just like PPGSA.

You've missed the point, or are ignoring it because you have your gem and want to keep it for yourself. This isn't about damage, it's about balance.

[Hearth Beric]

Here is a realistic idea.

Give everyone who pre-ordered a token so that they can get a free Augmentation Gem every 30 days. Then the next time you log in, the token is replaced so that you can use it again in 30 more days. This Augmentation Gem will be in addition to the one that you CAN get by killing Bellas.


THEN, give EVERYONE the pre-order gem.


Poof! The whines about unfair health advantage because they were greedy and didn't want to part with their money when everyone else had faith in the game will be dispelled, and the people who did have faith in the game still retain an advantage ... just not the same advantage.

[Shao Majii]

While I could care less, and that does't sound like a bad idea... But how long does that last, really?

For some, that will last forever (they'll never make 275 as it is and are happy that way) but for those who are already 275 and waiting on timers... It just gets them to the end of the road faster. It doesn't solve the problem really...

Now they can get Augs 2x as fast (correct me if I'm reading what you're saying incorrectly)... So, what benefit do they gain when they have all the augmentations, or at least have all the ones they want?

They sit and twiddle their thumbs, waiting for content... kinda like they do anyway, only now they have nothing else to look forward to, except giving that token to a TC every time they login so they can have their packspace back. Not that one space is a big deal, but it now just takes up space while they wait for more augmentations to be added to the game.

It's not really an equal replacement, imo.

[Hearth Beric]

Then pick some other thing that people who had faith in the game and pre-ordered the game would get. I just said the Augmentation Gem as an idea.

Heck, make it so that it gives you a +x% chance of finding a Rare. Make it so that you can recall to a dungeon that is nothing more than a room full of portals (like the 3 subways, and Ayan, Sanamar, and Bore) ... something, anything.

[Shadow Spectre]

It's not about balance or equal playing ground for everyone. It's about having something others don't. A reward for being faithful in the low times. When they were going to put out TOD they wanted to see how many players they could expect to stay. The pre-order was their way of doing that. For that they rewarded us with something signifigant in game terms. Now after people realize they should have taken the chance we did to get the reward we got they complain about balance and unfair. Well DT is going to be a hard unfair unbalanced place to play. If you don't like it too bad. You choose the play there. It's not suppose to be a fair place or balanced enviroment. Learn new tactics and use overweilming numbers to overcome these problems.

[ChildoftheKoRn]

This game is extremely difficult to balance out. Just think most games its people with most health have some of hte lowest damage (Other than support classes) whereas most high damage yielding classes have lower health.

But in AC's case Mages had the most health able to wield the highest al armor (as is everyone) as well as some of the most damage (Even DOT seeing with fast cast etc etc)

Melees have some of the fastest attacks ability to dodge missile (as well as mages with the slide casting) and depending on the build defenses go either way.

Archers some of the highest damage ( now a days) and most diverse with arrows (when it comes to weepings) and 2nd easiest to switch up fighting style (arced arrows)

But witht he diversity between health defenses and damage output its extremely difficult to manage how it all works together. Adding the health gem just threw it even furhter out of wack since only some get a +45 health and others dont (besides cantrips). They didnt think of hte repercusion that would come about when the gem was released since 60% have it and the rest dont (Guestimations) but it still, none the less, throws balance out of wack.

If you give people at least the ability to get a gem or something other that adds 10% but make them sacrifice something for it whether its exp, augmentation, or some other form in order to make it not completely "free".

[Shao Majii]

Oh it should certainly not be free. Some (not all) people went through quite a bit of trouble to get their gem. My only arguement is that everyone should be granted the oppritunity to put forth the effort, reguardless of when they started playing or luck of the draw or what have you.

Some folks were busy in the big sandbox serving our country with very limited internet access, which they would use for their family-- not for a game. Others had more important things to worry about than a game and missed the chance. Some never knew any different.

None of those people were afforded a fair chance to put forth the same effort. I could care less if it wasn't such a balance issue, but it is. It is now a reason NOT to buy the game, especially for anyone who would mainly be interested in playing on DT. And that isn't good for the health of the game.

That's my stance, that's all I want- people to not be afraid that they'll be perma-gimped, so they'll give AC a shot.

[DualityDyad]

An envoy just told me that my pre-order key cannot be used anymore and that they might be adding a gem that is worse than the HP one but similar. Unfair eh.

[ChildoftheKoRn]

An envoy just told me that my pre-order key cannot be used anymore and that they might be adding a gem that is worse than the HP one but similar. Unfair eh.

Lol just think about those people who pre-ordered but hten got shipped overseas. no good either way.

[shizzuh]

I've just had a fight that would've fit as a perfect example of why this is a major issue. During the groupfight (a rather large one), I cast the Tugak Quati (lifering) on another melee, and he was easily able to survive even though I hit him twice with it. Later on, I got stuck on him in sticky melee, and he was able to cast the very same spell on me. Of course I died in one spell. My character is a level 210 melee with full majors, encrusted bloodstone jewel, hematite-imbued jewelry and so on. I even had my aegis shield equipped. And it still wasn't balanced.

Bottom line is this: no matter how well I prepare for PvP-combat, my character will never be able to get equal opportunaties. This is called imbalance, and it's absolutely devastating to PvP combat. Please, please fix it now - it's a major issue for every new Darktider, and we do need more players on our server if we are to keep up the steam.

[Jida]

I will repeat what I said before.

Make the preorder health gem not work on Red PK players.

Done.

[justinhutchins]

As i posted before, the argurment of it being obtained due to a level of loyalty/faithfulness or knowledge of its effectiveness has been reduced to absudity because someone who had never played the game and therefore knew nothing of its effectiveness nor anything about the company could just as easily have bought the preorder. It was not limited to only those that played the game and knew about the company. Similarly, there are many players today that have been playing longer(the game had been around for a long time before the gem) than some who possess the gem but do not have it because they were not playing during that year.

As i posted before, the argument is about being at the right place at the right time and weather or not that denotes recieving an item that throws off the underlying mathematical balance of the game and entitles one to have an innate advantage(before any template is made, before any armor is aquired, before any ability or skill is gained) than anyone who does not have it and can "never" get it.

My view in a nutshell - Before templates are made and knowlede of the game obtained, there should be a mathematical balance(or the potential for one) that makes everyone equal. I do not mean that all players should have the same skill and abilities, that is based on one's own comprehension and application of successful methods of playing. This company has, for the most part, repremanded any customer who came after or was not playing/did not have enough money at the time of its incorporation and i believe that is a mistake. Pretty much all players that have the gem start out the game with +10% health. That is expierence later that they do not have to put in to it or can use on other skills or simply have more health once skills are maxed out. Because of this(and the fact that the only criteria for recieving it was being at the right place at the right time), i believe that all players should be given it, without having to use anything that would decrease the capabilities of their template(I.E. augmentations that use experience points that could be used on attributes such as health or other skills which would only take away from that character and continue the mathematical unbalance). The only acceptable solution would be to make it only able to be recieved through a quest but there is even a logical argument for why that would still be giving an advantage beyond the year that the players with gems have had it but i will not go there....unless you want me to. =P

I'll admit that i did not read many of the new posts on this thread because i have read it all before. I did on the other hand read your post Shadow Spectre and i have to say that is one of the least thought out ideas that i have read on the subject. I am sick of people stating that no one should get it without clear reasoning behind it. You said yourself that it is about "having something that others do not", that statement alone implies an imbalance. The question is, is that imbalnce worth the deterioration of this game's future? I will say that in order for this game to progress for years to come, the answer is no. If you do not see why, please read this post over and over until you understand. =P

[OldSchoolACPVP]

I still don't understand how you people 'paid more money by pre-ordering'.

I gave EB games $5 to hold my copy. When they had the game, they subtracted $5 from the $29.99 cost.

Let's not forget people were able to PRE-order months and months, and months after Asheron's Call: Throne of Destiny was released. People stockpiled copies and sold them for $60 a pop.

The whole idea of this gem was a damn joke. And yes, I have the gem on all of my unsubbed accounts. So I'm not whining that I need one.

[Pimpinsins]

shut up about this already in mage vs mage just streak the mage with the hp gem at the start of the fight. melee vs melee well melee vs melee sucks and its going to come down to who can lifering which in that case if you know anything about casting the lifering you know you can get it to hit 2 times in a row easy and 3 if you know what your doing and you dont need the hp gem for a lifering to kill someone with 2 hits back to back.


Melee vs mage well if the mage has the hp ring who cares the melee can do like 200+ a hit with one crit with a cb so all he has to do is run in hit run away and keep doing this until he crits. If its the melee with the hp gem and not the mage again streak the melee. ;)

Also I dont have the HP gem

[Silvias_Moon]

just streak? ok why doesnt the preorder mage just streak you, then you are a DEFINITE two shot and he still has a pretty solid chance to tank.

[max_evil]

shizzuh makes the best point.

Bottom line is this: no matter how well I prepare for PvP-combat, my character will never be able to get equal opportunaties. This is called imbalance, and it's absolutely devastating to PvP combat. Please, please fix it now - it's a major issue for every new Darktider, and we do need more players on our server if we are to keep up the steam.

[Jida]

I do not have the gem, I have 360 health, I would have 396 health, I would survive more fights and win more battles.

FACT.

Ever since the first days of people figuring something out and not wanting others to know about it, we as the total population evetually figured it out or were told.

There has always been some kind of '1 time item' that threw off balance. These items were fixed in the long run.

It always takes a long time to do.

PPGSx
PP Tinked Armor
Getting Num Necklace instead of Encrusted Jewel
Etc.

(Well the last one is still not fixed so I still cannot get the encrusted jewel).

There is no reason why that the gem needs to exist in PvP, there is no reason to not eliminate it for Red PK players.

[Fyros]

Bottom line is this: no matter how well I prepare for PvP-combat, my character will never be able to get equal opportunaties. This is called imbalance, and it's absolutely devastating to PvP combat. Please, please fix it now - it's a major issue for every new Darktider, and we do need more players on our server if we are to keep up the steam.


It is precisely this issue which has put me off making a DT toon. What is the point when I know people have an advantage that I can never claw back? I can accept the struggle and being killed by more skilled or higher level players. What I can't accept is that against an equally skilled similar level player I will lose the fight if they have the gem.

I've been playing AC on and off (mostly on) for 6 years and most of the time with multiple accounts. I guess my loyalty means nothing because I don't live somewhere where Turbine bothered to distribute to. My subscriptions over the years total over $1500, but I don't get to have balanced PvP because I didn't spend a fraction of that on the pre-order.

Turbine have 3 options to fix this problem. In my order of preference - 1) Make the hp gem available as an augment; 2) Eliminate the effect of the gem for pk and pkl; or 3) Open a new PK server for non pre-order players only.

Failure to address this will only mean that when I get bored of PvE again I will unsubscribe instead of PKing. The irony is their loyalty bonus will cause them to lose loyal players because they implemented it in such a crappy way - where some noob could get the gem because they live next to Wal-Mart but players in the wrong countries that have been playing since 2000 are SOL.

[Satain]

Well, since turbine upped the dmg on melee's, the lower lvl pvp's or the pvp's who dont have the gem and are not 100 innate end have a real hard time killing someone who does have the gem. Here's a scenario(sp): A lvl 200 melee with 410 hp (pre order) is dueling a mage who is lvl 160 and has 100 innate with no melee and no pre order gem with roughly 350 hp. The mage stands no chance.

[Endrin]

I would say they should impiment a quets that will get people a gem that casts a spell to raise health by 7.5%. Thats way things would be much more balanced out for people who didn't bother getting it when they had the chance but the people who do have it wont be totaly upset either because they will still have an ample reward for their earlier investment.

[Frank The Knife]

Best thing to do is make it an augment. 4 billion should do the trick.

[ChildoftheKoRn]

The sensible peeps of DT that do and do not have the gem believe it should be made into an augmentation gem that is worth 4 billion but is willing to work out any other amount, 6 billion 8 billion however much. We just want the damn gem!

Balance out the health!

[Flandamier]

Your prayers have been answered.

Carraida’s Benediction on you, surpassing Asheron’s Benediction.

Unfortunately this sucks for those of us who did pre-order. :mad:

[max_evil]

it seemed jacked though.

from what i understand its 3 peaces of jewlery.
that go together.

meaning u can't wear the +30 health necklace with it.
and what ever majors u had on your other 2 spots.

-max

[hektikdt]

so basically turbine screws up again.

[justinhutchins]

Is that serious?

If so, all they did was perpetuate the problem. Now, instead of being hindered 10% health, we are out 2 slots for majors and one more that potentially adds 30 health. There is no way that can be their resolution. It would be more beneficial not to even wear any.

Am I the only one that believes it should just be given to all the players on DT without having to spend any exp or money? The other players have had it for a year. That is one year of a complete advantage over every paying customer without one. I think it is obvious that the gem does more harm than good to AC, atleast on DT.

I would not complain if they implemented an augmentation but it is still my conjecture that they should simply add an intricate and challenging quest that, once completed, renders the gem.

Enough is enough.

[Dread_Og]

So, you can go from 423 hp to 445, and people are still bitching? If you can't afford to build a suit around the new set, too bad; at least the opportunity is there. Also, the set provides other advantages such as a 20% pierce ward. Get the set, elysa's favor, a double major, and you will only be one major and 10 hp short of what I have; not to mention one of your wards will be stronger than mine.

Oh and I'm at a perma-disadvantage because I can't get Essence Glutton, but I'm not constantly crying about it.

The real reason you guys aren't good at DT isn't because you don't have the pre-order gem, it's because you are too stupid to make things like this work to your advantage.

[max_evil]

Dread og,

how did u come up with 423?

-max

[Dread_Og]

417 was max before TOD, and now there are potions and hook items to raise it by 6 more.

[justinhutchins]

Dread, there is two obvious points I would like to make regarding your post:

1 - Where did you get the idea that everyone that plays AC wants to be comparable to you?

If I were to choose to go through the hassel of not only collecting all 3 pieces required for the +10% health increse but also building an entire suit around them, i would be shy 10 health and major of that which YOU have, but what about those with essence glutton? Would I have 40 less health? That does not make much sense. The three items combined give you +10% but also take away the ability to use an item that gives you 30 health. Considering the preorder gives you the same thing but also allows you to have an extra 30 health denotes that one would still be at a loss of more than merely 10 health and a major. I believe it is common knowledge that most everyone, especially those on DT, have the encrusted bloodstone jewel and even if one did not, they could still create a new character that would have the capability to get it. I, on the other hand, cannot just create a new character or account that contains the preorder gem. There is no way that these items even remotely make up for the 10% loss of those without the preoder.

2 - No one said they were not good on DT because they did not have the preoder, that is not the issue and i find it childish that you must resort to demeaning ones intelligence or skill to push your perspective.

The primary issue is the innate advantage no matter how much health is at concern that is given to those that did nothing but order the game at the right time. I can think of no company that has implemented an item in to their game that is so harmful to PvP as this one. There should be a mathematical balance when starting the game that allows each player to differenciate themselves in skill and ability. So how else does it harm the game besides manifesting an imbalance? I have read many posts from players detailing their lack of will to join DT due to preoder gem alone. Now, lets add this issue in with the plethora of other poorly thought out ideas that have been incorporated and that allows for a potentially negative view of the game from an outside reader or current player with an open mind and desire to be at the same level as everyone else. I read these forums thoroughly before returning to the game and expressed my disgust for this item and after coming back, i think even worse of it. Fortunately, i had played the game before and knew that the core concepts of the game were untouchable and that any problems such as this could be resolved with reason and understanding on Turbine's side but what about those without such faith or knowledge of the game? Would they come to the same conclusion to join a game littered with so many problems? Just look at how many arguments have taken place about this one item alone. Do you not see the need to fix the problem?

As a side note, I would like to add that no one from Turbine has confirmed that these items are their solution for the preoder gem argument. I believe, in a prior thread, they stated they would be listing the ideas their team has come up with to get feedback before making the final decision as to what they would do. That thread has not yet happened so it is safe to assume that this was in no way their fix.

[Pent]

It was even stated by a DEV on another thread that these items were NOT intended as a fix for the preorder gems.
You guys need to read the rest of the board.

[Dread_Og]

Dread, there is two obvious points I would like to make regarding your post:

1 - Where did you get the idea that everyone that plays AC wants to be comparable to you?

2 - No one said they were not good on DT because they did not have the preoder, that is not the issue and i find it childish that you must resort to demeaning ones intelligence or skill to push your perspective. \

1. LOL, you really think that was the point I was making? I was showing how close you could get to somebody with the pre-order gem by taking advantage of the new set. Isn't that what everybody wants?

2. Yes, they were, just reread some of the posts on this thread. Then when something like this comes along, they just complain about it, instead of seeing how it can work to their advantage. If your first reaction was "turbine effed us over again," "this is even worse than before," etc., then I would call it being stupid. And like the previous poster said, this wasn't even intended as a fix.

As for your big blocks of text, I didn't read, but as I'm glancing it over, it seems that you have no idea what you're talking about. Max possible hp (obviously not counting rares or burning coals) is 460; for those of us who can't get the Encrusted Bloodstone Jewel, it's 455. You complain about the new set not letting people use the jewel, well gee, some of us have had to deal with that for years. Take away the jewel, and replace it with Elysa's favor; it's only a 15 pt loss in health, a considerable boost to what was previously possible.

[justinhutchins]

My issue with it still stands. So what you are saying is one would only be out 15 health if they have the max endurance and health that is possible but that is forcing a template on DT considering 460 is the uppermost health achievable (which I will be honest in saying i am not sure of). Not everyone wants to start out their character with 100 endurance. If that were the case they could just do away with it and give everyone 100 less points to distribute when making their character. The key idea is that a person without max innate endurance can still be just as compitent as those with it considering they have the preorder gem. Not only that, but as i said in my prior post, it is not about how much health is awarded to those that bought the preorder but instead the innate advantage that is given that throws off the underlying mathematical balance. Even if i had the gem i would still have a problem with it because i want to know that when i kill someone, its because i have created either a better template or i have more skill. I do not want to have the possibility out there that the only reason i won or lost was because either I or my opponent had an extra 30 health.

I would also like to make it clear that you must wear all three pieces to get any added health bonus.

[Tusky]

I am for the Four Billion Augment to get the health gem.

It should be obtainable now. Think of it as a free 4 bill for preordering.

Would give both parties what they want ;)

[Inferno-Mage_TD]

Go To Penguin Ice Cave, Collect Eggs Once Every 24 Hrs, Then Turn In After You Have Many Go Turn In To Chef Martam For A +10% Drink.

Now Please Stop Whining About Unfair Advantages Where You Were Too Lazy Or Unfaithful To Get The Preorder

Also It Stacks So Have Fun Dueling 500+ Hp Ppl

EDIT: LET THE HATE FLOW NOW THAT I REVEALED A GREAT SECRET... I CANT WAIT TO SEE WHICH CLAN TAKES OVER THE DUNGEON FIRST

[justinhutchins]

Even though your argument has been made nonsense already Inferno, I will go ahead and give you the quick overview as to why it is.

Too lazy

- Some did not have the money even though they were paying active customers.
- Some were not playing during the one year when it was released (i.e. some were over seas, some took a break, some had not yet begun to play)
- Some did buy it but were not able to activate it.

Not faithful

- The preorder was not limited to only those players that had played before.
- There are players that have been playing for close to 6 years but were not when it came out even though there are players that just started when it came out and have only been playing for 2 or so years.
- The preorder was not limited to only those that knew about the company or the effectiveness of such an item.

The imbalance

- Those with the gem recieve an innate 10% health increase before any template is made or any skill is obtained. In other words, it throws off the underlying mathematical balance that all MMOS and most any game strive to achieve.
- Even if someone did care enough about your penguin spot to waste time everyday collecting eggs, it would not stop someone who had the preorder from getting them as well, thus continuing the imbalance.
- 30 health does make a difference.

If you need me to continue, I will but I suggest you go back and read some of the prior posts and threads regarding the subject before you intrude with poorly thought out fallacies.

[Arch Magi]

The imbalance

- Those with the gem recieve an innate 10% health increase before any template is made or any skill is obtained. In other words, it throws off the underlying mathematical balance that all MMOS and most any game strive to achieve.
- Even if someone did care enough about your penguin spot to waste time everyday collecting eggs, it would not stop someone who had the preorder from getting them as well, thus continuing the imbalance.
- 30 health does make a difference.

If you need me to continue, I will but I suggest you go back and read some of the prior posts and threads regarding the subject before you intrude with poorly thought out fallacies.

You are incorrect in assuming that all MMOs want to achieve a "perfect balance" between their classes. In other games, a Mage != Fighter != Thief != Cleric != Bard != Monk

They all have their advantages and disadvantages. Everyone whines and wants all the advantages in AC, but no one is willing to take the disadvantages.


Yes 30 Health does make a difference. No kidding. So I guess that means that Turbine should rename the server from "Darktide" to "Don't play here unless you have a base 100 Endurance and max it out first because unless you have maximum health, you will never win here". Or maybe that is too long.

[Sizlunt DT]

Arch. You don't PvP and pretty much hate PK's from what I can see in your posts. That being the case, please dont go spam here, your input is neither constructive nor necessary nor helpful.

[Arch Magi]

Arch. You don't PvP and pretty much hate PK's from what I can see in your posts. That being the case, please dont go spam here, your input is neither constructive nor necessary nor helpful.

As I have said before. Since the code doesn't allow for "Server Divergance" or "Alternate Rule Sets", anything that you discusss here, effects me on my server.

So don't sit there and tell me that "this doesn't effect you because you don't PK", because you and I know that is a lie.

Further, unless I missed something, I don't see the word "Moderator" next to your name. I have every right to post suggestions that effect me as a paying customer who has an active account as you do.

If you want to say "Turbine, please remove the pre-order gems" from JUST Darktide, then I will agree to stay out of that suggestion, but short of that, ANY CHANGE to pre-Order gems effects me directly, and thus I WILL comment on that.

[Shadow Spectre]

I guess this issue is big for those who do not have it. I for one love that I had the for thought to get this when it came out. It has been sometthing I enjoy as being part of AC for a long time and consider it a reward for staying with them for so long. I was given something for showing how much I loved the game and was willing to take the chance on a game that was old.

Now for the DTers. You talk about player balance. The game is never balanced with Decal and all the programs added to it. If you want a balanced game get rid of the TPA that people use or create to make them better in the game. It causes more problems than the gems. Talk about unfair and unbalanced. If they would get rid of Decal and all TPA's then I would give up my pre-order gems. Fair trade I say. If you think about it why do I have to play a game they way other people think it should be played. All those programs are someone elses idea of how the game should be played not Turbine. I have more trouble with TPAers than Aug gems. After all balance is just that balnaced. Play the game for what it is and not outside influnces.

[Pimpinsins]

all of you stfu and let this die already you cry about everyones health being to high then you cry for something that gives you more health then you cry that you need to do more damage o.O's all of you.

[Dread_Og]

So what you are saying is one would only be out 15 health if they have the max endurance and health that is possible but that is forcing a template on DT considering 460 is the uppermost health achievable (which I will be honest in saying i am not sure of). Not everyone wants to start out their character with 100 endurance. If that were the case they could just do away with it and give everyone 100 less points to distribute when making their character. The key idea is that a person without max innate endurance can still be just as compitent as those with it considering they have the preorder gem.

Huh? Who said anything about having to start 100 endurance? The new set gives you the same boost in hp regardless of your starting attributes. I was just using 100 endurance as an example . . .

Let me break it down in crayon: Maxed possible hp without the pre-order gem is 423, as opposed to 460 with it. Big difference, huh? Now with this new set, somebody without the pre-order gem can get to 445 hp.

This has nothing to do with having to start 100 end, because even the 10 end guy will get the same boost to hp. Maxed possible hp for 10 end without the pre-order gem is 378, as opposed to 415 with it. Now with the new set, you can get to 400 hp.

I'm of course assuming the 10% benefit caps at 370 hp like it does with the hp gem.

[Inferno-Mage_TD]

Dread dont forget about essence of the cave penguin, stock up on tons of those its another +10% heath for 30 mins and stacks

[justinhutchins]

I'll briefly go over each of your arguments as most of them have already been responded to several times. I would like to ask a question first though, one that could change the focus of the argument quite a bit, Is 460 the maximum allowed health (by this i mean if i had 460 and a new item came out that added 20 health, would it be possible to get 480)?

Arch - I did not say balance between the classes, I said that all MMOS strive for balance with no context implying reference to class types being perfectly equal. Please read the lines in question again. In alot of games, the most difficult or complex templates to play are potentially the best; so in that sense there is a balance (i.e. those with the skill to play them have a slight advantage but not one that allows them to dominate the other classes). Although i could go in to each individual game that i have played and show you the balance (please take in to consideration that every game creates a different balance such as that between a template being good at PvE but not as efficient in PvP) but my main point in saying that was not to draw focus away from AC but to show its similarities to the very core concepts necessary for all games especially MMOs. AC itself has been striving for a balance between the classes but once again, that has nothing to do with health. Health or endurance has become a universal attribute, one that is required to be high in order to be competitive on DT. The problem with the gem is that no matter how high your innate endurance, one with the preorder will always have higher health assuming they too feel the need to have increased health and act accordingly in the items they choose to use. As for your rant regarding how much this would effect you on a white server, I do not see how it would unless you are referring to PK and PKL. There has never been any serious discussion of removing the gem so i believe it is a safe bet that it will not happen.

Shadow - I can see where you are coming from but I have to disagree from a logic standpoint on alot of what you said. First off, the loyalty argument has been demolished several times over. There are many with the gem that were not loyal customers and there are many loyal customers now that still do not have it. Do not quote me on this but i believe it is obvious to see that they were merely attempting to bring people in to the game regardless of what they expressed their intentions as. It is a horrible idea all around and now they are paying for it literally. As far as getting rid of UCMing and all TPAs, i agree but as it has been said before, many would quit because the level grind is so rough now. Players have used them as their clutch to dismiss the many problems plagueing AC. It is my belief that they should focus on fixing some of the more "mondane" problems such as the preorder gems, town populations, and new leveling methods before they attempt to fix the TPA problem. The idea here is that many would quit because they now have to sit in a dungeon pecking away at the same monster all day long to efficiently level their character. Many newcomers on DT would say it is not worth it to spend so many months getting their character to a sufficient PvPing level only to be at a disadvantage because of the preorder. These problems must be fixed because they were not created by some solo program developer but instead Turbine and the AC staff. You cannot compare the preorder gems to TPAs for this reason alone.

Inferno - Your post is one that is simple to respond to. Do you want DT to become a frenzy based soley on how many eggs you have stacked on? It is a decent item but stop acting like it is the greatest item in the game because it could potentially ruin PvP from a certain perspective. I would hate to see the player base turn to this item as an only resort to get an edge in PvP. Sure every once in a while stack a few on like one would do with rares but if it got beyond that, trouble would be ahead on DT.

Pimpsins - The only person whinning is you unfortunately. I consider what i am doing as putting forth an argument because i am using logical premises and my own morals to construct these posts whereas all you are doing is whinning about people whinning for no reason. As i have stressed before, these forums are market research for Turbine. They heavily rely on our imput to choose the heading of their game, so when something is wrong, we will let them know until they respond or do something about it.

Dread - I feel like we have not been communicating well over this issue, perhaps because of your defensive language tactics or perhaps mine. Before i continue, I would like to stress one thing that i do not believe you read in one of my prior posts; the encrusted bloodstone jewel is allowed to any player regardless of when they started playing. You can easily create a new character whereas I cannot just create a new character that contains the preorder gem. I am going to relay this argument to the best of my abilities in numbers because words apparently are not working too well and this should be pretty simple. Please take my question at the beginning of this post in to consideration here (my numbers may be wrong if Turbine will not allow anyone to get over 460 health without using a rare or coal).

*Assumption - The 10% items do not figure in health past 370, that is +37 is the highest addition one can recieve.

Lets take someone with max innate endurance in to account.

423 + 10%* (preorder gem) = 460
423 + 10%* (new three piece set, all must be worn) - 30 (encrusted bloodstone jewel) = 430

That is an increase of 7 health but the loss of one major spot. Probably worth it considering you have the time and money to build a suit around them but i fail to see how you do your math. Any item that can make up for that loss of 30 health would also be able to be worn by someone with the preorder gem, thus continuing the imbalance. All three items, including the necklace, must be worn to get any added health bonus. If turbine will not let you go beyond 460 then it could become an issue of having max endurance or not. Lets use your example of someone with innate 10 endurance just to show that based on the assumptions, nothing would change between someone with 10 or someone with 100.

378 + 10%* (preorder gem) = 415
378 + 10%* (three piece items) = 415 - 30 (encrusted bloodstone jewel) = 385

This seems very simple to me but of course I could be wrong. Regardless of whether or not I am, the issue is not always about the amount of health given but the fact that it is given and not based on paramiters other than being at the right place at the right time. One could even argue that 15 health could very easily be the deciding blow in a battle. Could you prove otherwise? Anyways, i'm tired, i will wait to see all of your responses to continue further.

[Pimpinsins]

wtf did I just say

I mean really you are crying about something like 30 Hp that is NOTHING I dont even have maxed health war or really anything and I kill people all the time just fine with the stupid health gem.

I am getting sick of seeing all these new players asking for crutches to play ac with rather then just learning how to play the game. I mean lets say they did give everyone the health gem ok you still cant pvp and you die then your going to run here saying something else is bs and they need to nerf this or upgrade that.

I for one like the fact not EVERYONE has 460 health and dont want it to change.

[Dread_Og]

Justin, you aren't taking into consideration Elysa's favor (ring), which adds +15 hp. And no, it doesn't layer with the bloodstone jewel, or the +25 necklace I wear. Since the new set more than takes care of your pierce ward, and you are using elysa's favor, you will have 2 fewer major slots than everybody else. It's a question of whether you want 22 more hp, or those 2 extra slots.

[Arch Magi]

Justin, you aren't taking into consideration Elysa's favor (ring), which adds +15 hp. And no, it doesn't layer with the bloodstone jewel, or the +25 necklace I wear. Since the new set more than takes care of your pierce ward, and you are using elysa's favor, you will have 2 fewer major slots than everybody else. It's a question of whether you want 22 more hp, or those 2 extra slots.

... or how you should have spent a few bucks and got the Pre-Order gem (which anyone who paid attention in school would know that pre-order bonus is for a limited time).

Life is about choices.

Peace.

[Cingular]

... or how you should have spent a few bucks and got the Pre-Order gem (which anyone who paid attention in school would know that pre-order bonus is for a limited time).

Life is about choices.

Peace.

the ebgames and gamestop stores near me didnt have a pre order(and this is the day tod came out) at all so i realy didnt have that choice :confused:

[Thadda Al-Munik]

wtf did I just say

I mean really you are crying about something like 30 Hp that is NOTHING I dont even have maxed health war or really anything and I kill people all the time just fine with the stupid health gem.

I am getting sick of seeing all these new players asking for crutches to play ac with rather then just learning how to play the game. I mean lets say they did give everyone the health gem ok you still cant pvp and you die then your going to run here saying something else is bs and they need to nerf this or upgrade that.

I for one like the fact not EVERYONE has 460 health and dont want it to change.


What you fail to see is that the bonus is real nice, and a great way to fix this is to reward players with a 4+ billion augment. Therefore, those who preorderd, do not have to worry about this augment.

[Pimpinsins]

Then 90% of the people I fight will have 460 vs 15-20% of the people that have it now no thanks. Fighting someone with 460 hp in full wards sucks not the hardest thing just takes a lot of time to kill when a mage does like 160-200damage a hit.

[justinhutchins]

Once again I will respond to your posts:

Pimpsins, I will no longer be continuing this argument with you after this post unless you can do something other than make your personal animosities known. It has gotten to the point where I do not believe I need to. Your posts speak for themselves. You have made your perspective in to one that is both based on assumptions and based on attacking people rather than using intelligence, common sense, or logic to formulate an argument. As far as your attacks on me, I will clear up any problems you may have.

1. I am not a new player but a returning one. Together, I have played for nearly 3 years.

2. I am not asking for a clutch, just a level playing field; something that was taken away based on foolhardy thoughts.

3. I have skill in PvP and I am not arguing this because I have to be better or because I die often. In fact, as I have said before, even if I had the preorder gem I would still argue it because I do not want to think that I have killed someone only because they had 30 less health than me. I would prefer the outcome of my fights to be indicative of skill, a well formed template, and good strategy instead of 30 or however much health.

4. I am not asking for Turbine to nerf anything, nor would I unless it was hindering the games progression or completely against my own morals. Personally, I would be fine with the game as it was in 99' with an exception to a few things, namely the life drain spell that was a tad too powerful.

As for your recent post, I find it funny that your "argument" is that 90% of people would have 460 health (which, by the way, is a complete assumption) and you do not want the added skill or time it takes to kill a mage with max health and full wards. That is the exact same thing as saying you enjoy being in little league baseball at age 25 because it is easier to play. You, yourself have just stated it is more difficult and time consuming to fight someone with the preorder, so would it not be easier for someone with the preorder to fight someone without it? Could that person not be as skillful but still win because of the advantage? The answer is yes. Fights between those nearing the peak of the game should be long and should be difficult. I have brought this issue up many times in game with my guild and everyone believes it should be incorporated except there are various opinions on what should have to be done to get it ranging from nothing, to augmentations, to paying for it, to doing a quest that requires many months to complete. What is your problem with everyone having the preorder gem; it will only level the playing field (and not even in terms of health but in terms of potentialities when starting)? As I said before, this will be the last time I respond to you until you construct a well thought out post. Your posts have become increasingly less relevant and full of more assumptions than arguments.

Arch, I appreciate you for one reason; that you are now not trying to argue anything except that it was given to those that were at the right place at the right time not based on loyalty, faithfulness, or knowledge of its effectiveness and should continue to be that way considering the observable intentions of its incorporation. Finally, after tons of threads, you have seen what it is really about or what my primary argument has been. The problems occur when you ask why Turbine decided to give this item to those that were capable of playing and paying for this item. There is no good reason for them to incorporate such an item. The loyalty argument has been ruled out along with the intention to make more money. Many players right now have been playing for longer than some with the preorder gem and several more were not capable of getting it. What about someone that just started playing, do they have no chance of ever being considered a loyal customer? I believe it is obvious that was not their intention. They are spending time and money right now trying to figure out what to do about this issue and implement their solution. So maybe it was to bring back people but from what I see, all it is doing is making people argue, quit, and create threads here that are accessible by people interested in joining the game. This item hurts the game a lot, especially DT. Many people have expressed their lack of will to join DT because of the advantage given and, as I said before; many have quit or never joined because they do not see the reason in being loyal to a company that is not first loyal to them. Away from other games, AC is a game that strives for balance and it is necessary because of the way the game is setup (i.e. there are no set templates, for the most part, thus leaving a wide range of possibilities). There must be an underlying mathematical balance in order for this game to survive. What if they did it with another attribute or skill like melee defense or war magic, do you not think it would create an imbalance? What if they gave the people that bought the game on one particular day an increase of 100 to any skill, would that be too much? That may be an exaggeration but it holds the same concept; why implement such an item? Possibly, considering the arguments I have seen here, they did it to give just a few people an edge but that is against the necessities of the MMORPG world and most importantly PvP. If they did it for that reason, why are they trying to correct it now? The idea here is not that I should have the exact same health as someone else but I should have the potential to have it. This gem affects the game in a blatantly negative way and there is a legitimate reason why so many people are complaining and Turbine is responding.

Dread, you are right but 2 majors and 15 health seems almost as bad as before. It is a little better but considering the criteria for our argument, it does nothing unless I (without the preorder) can achieve the same health as someone with the preorder. As I said before, 15 health can still be the sole reason I kill someone or someone kills me. I am curious though, what made you change your mind. I was reading over the posts on this thread when I came across one where you said something along the lines of, "Just give it to everyone that will solve the problem". It might help us come to an agreement if your intentions as to why this should not be implemented are known. I believe I am going to stop arguing the amount of health given by the preorder for a while and shift back to my original intentions. You can read my response to Arch or some of pimpsins to see the basics of that argument if you wish.

[Pimpinsins]

[QUOTE=justinhutchins]Once again I will respond to your posts:

Pimpsins, I will no longer be continuing this argument with you after this post unless you can do something other than make your personal animosities known. It has gotten to the point where I do not believe I need to. Your posts speak for themselves. You have made your perspective in to one that is both based on assumptions and based on attacking people rather than using intelligence, common sense, or logic to formulate an argument. As far as your attacks on me, I will clear up any problems you may have.

1. I am not a new player but a returning one. Together, I have played for nearly 3 years.

2. I am not asking for a clutch, just a level playing field; something that was taken away based on foolhardy thoughts.

3. I have skill in PvP and I am not arguing this because I have to be better or because I die often. In fact, as I have said before, even if I had the preorder gem I would still argue it because I do not want to think that I have killed someone only because they had 30 less health than me. I would prefer the outcome of my fights to be indicative of skill, a well formed template, and good strategy instead of 30 or however much health.

4. I am not asking for Turbine to nerf anything, nor would I unless it was hindering the games progression or completely against my own morals. Personally, I would be fine with the game as it was in 99' with an exception to a few things, namely the life drain spell that was a tad too powerful.

As for your recent post, I find it funny that your "argument" is that 90% of people would have 460 health (which, by the way, is a complete assumption) and you do not want the added skill or time it takes to kill a mage with max health and full wards. That is the exact same thing as saying you enjoy being in little league baseball at age 25 because it is easier to play. You, yourself have just stated it is more difficult and time consuming to fight someone with the preorder, so would it not be easier for someone with the preorder to fight someone without it? Could that person not be as skillful but still win because of the advantage? The answer is yes. Fights between those nearing the peak of the game should be long and should be difficult. I have brought this issue up many times in game with my guild and everyone believes it should be incorporated except there are various opinions on what should have to be done to get it ranging from nothing, to augmentations, to paying for it, to doing a quest that requires many months to complete. What is your problem with everyone having the preorder gem; it will only level the playing field (and not even in terms of health but in terms of potentialities when starting)? As I said before, this will be the last time I respond to you until you construct a well thought out post. Your posts have become increasingly less relevant and full of more assumptions than arguments.

/QUOTE]

1. I have no clue who you are and wow you played ac for 3 years did you play on darktide? If so what was your name?

2. whats your ig name now I would like to see these "Skills"

3. I never said anything about a clutch this isnt a driving game

4. if you did have the gem and you wanted to fight someone with out the gem on even terms dont use the gem?

5. the days of ac being what it was like in 99 are never coming back get over it

6. If you READ what I posted I said it wasnt any harder to fight someone with a gem vs with out I just said it takes more time

7. Its like 20 hp that means nothing in a fight and if you think it does then should every melee be able to have the same health as a mage that started 100 has when he started 10?

8. learn to dodge

[justinhutchins]

Pimpsins, even though your post hardly meets my standards for an intelligent response, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and clear up, once again, the assumptions and attacks on me. The problem here is that you are arguing based on personal attacks instead of the main point of my posts. You are not even attempting to respond to the abstract idea or principle nor are you trying to form any logical conclusion. For this reason, I will respond to your post but I am not doing so because it is necessary but instead for the sake of continuing the argument and not condemning this thread to a final post consisting of nonsense. Although, I will suggest that you go back to your previous threads and read them with more than a wandering eye and then read my entire response to see the main point. If you cannot do this, it would be in both of our best interests If you would stop posting.

1. Not relevant.

2. Not relevant.

3. It is called a figure of speech, you used one in your post as well. I tried to use a similar metaphor and I believe i accomplished that. You know very well that i was not referring to a racing game.

4. The Hp gem lasts for 24 hours, it cannot be switched off at a whim. There would be times that it would be necessary such as when I was fighting someone else with it.

5. I never stated I wanted things to be like they were in 99', I merely stated I would be content with it. You made the assumption that I would ask Turbine to nerf anything that made me die in a fight and I responded by saying I am not that type of person considering the latter of my comments.

6. I did read your post and even though it is possible to draw a logical deduction from your choppy language in that post considering you provided a subject, a quality, and a quantity that tended toward the implication from my last thread, it is not even necessary. The more time a fight takes, the more skill is required. Similarly, the difficulty also rises with every passing moment. The reason for this is that the more time a fight continues, the more possibility there is for a mistake to be made. The more time it takes, the more each of you adapt to eachothers' playing styles and must think in short time how to counteract the frequent changes that your opponent makes. This denotes that the battle requires skill and actually becomes more difficult or more demanding of skill until nothing further can be done should such a limitation be possible.

7. No one ever said that two people should have the same health considering one started with 10 and the other with 100. The idea here, as i said in my prior post, is that they should have the same potential when starting (i.e the one with 10 health COULD have started with 100 but chose not to).

8. Not relevant.

Before you begin questioning why 1, 2, and 8 and actually most of your responses are not relevant; I will add that I am not here to prove some ego driven conversation. I am here to argue principle, something you have yet to respond to. You keep looking at the shallow side of this ongoing argument instead of the underlying like dread and arch have tried to do. I will ask one last time for you to do something other than attack me or even respond to what I just said. Look back in to the posts or even simply at my last one and find the argument and continue from there.

[Jin Saotome]

Justin.... tsk.

You should of supported Turbine. 'Right time, right place' my rumpus. I could of ordered ToD from Iraq if I really wanted it. You could of too.

Now you'll pay the price and grovel at the mercy of the 'xxtreeeem' template players who have the gems. They were smart enough to preorder.

If you really wanted a level playing field, and didn't just like to see yourself talk for paragraphs upon paragraphs, you'd be out there asking for spear and staff users to be upgraded, or why Life Magic still rules the upper class.

Just a quick note, I'm against PK and always have been. If there was a way to screw all of you over and eleminate PK (and PKL, heh) from the playerbase, I'd trample you all in a heartbeat to obtain that option. (the banana peel on the loading dock when they were moving the DT server hardware didn't work too well, I shall step up my plans) I just wanted you to know, so I wouldn't be labled as biased for one side. I hate equally in this case.

[justinhutchins]

Sure, I'll take some spear and staff upgrades but why have so many different types of weapons? Why make all the weapons perfect hunting or PvP tools? Some may enjoy taking out a creature with a less effective means of hunting. It does not bother me that you can effectively PvP with an axe, sword, and UA weapon and not anything else, assuming of course that is even true, because anyone starting the game can use those weapons. If Turbine does not want the other weapons to become efficient, than that is their decision. Some weapons might not even be intended for use in competitive fighting, they might just be an item that exists to make the lore and roleplaying more realistic. The idea here is that the gem cannot be obtained by someone entering the game now and it does create an imbalance that, regardless of how much health is awarded, is a slap in the face to any new or returning player because it was given to new and returning players when it was released. Many people have expressed their negative feelings towards this item and I feel like it could be preventing AC from progressing. Why do things like this that could potentially steer players away? I do not get the same feeling about spears being less powerful than axes. Your assumption that anyone could have bought the preorder is just that, an assumption. There are several legitimate reasons why someone could have had difficulty in getting one or been completely unable to, I am sure you are capable of utilizing some of the wit you used in your prior post to think of atleast one. The problem occurs when you ask why Turbine decided to implement such an item and why they will not just give it to the rest of the player base. Even though you showed signs of reading my posts, I do not believe you read them all. I covered the premise of this argument in another post and have yet to get a reply. Maybe, you should read that one.

As far as your personal attack on me; I write so many paragraphs in hopes of being extremely clear in what I am saying. Unfortunately, that has gotten me nowhere on these forums because I have had to repeat the same things several times over several threads just to get someone to consider it much like I am doing right now. I post so many lines so that when Turbine reads this, they know I am serious and I am not just some whinning player; they can see how much thought I have put in it. Then again, I believe with the same conviction I have just shown that you have been living in my body for the entirety of my life and know me a lot better than I could ever know myself.

[ChildoftheKoRn]

Why dont we just let this pass as well as the next things that give certain people an advantage over others.

[Sizlunt DT]

Justin.... tsk.

You should of supported Turbine. 'Right time, right place' my rumpus. I could of ordered ToD from Iraq if I really wanted it. You could of too.

Now you'll pay the price and grovel at the mercy of the 'xxtreeeem' template players who have the gems. They were smart enough to preorder.

If you really wanted a level playing field, and didn't just like to see yourself talk for paragraphs upon paragraphs, you'd be out there asking for spear and staff users to be upgraded, or why Life Magic still rules the upper class.

Just a quick note, I'm against PK and always have been. If there was a way to screw all of you over and eleminate PK (and PKL, heh) from the playerbase, I'd trample you all in a heartbeat to obtain that option. (the banana peel on the loading dock when they were moving the DT server hardware didn't work too well, I shall step up my plans) I just wanted you to know, so I wouldn't be labled as biased for one side. I hate equally in this case.

Ohh stab to the heart, a pathetic guy who plays with dolls in his spare time away from playing AC nearly non-stop doesn't like my kind. I started to get irritated, but then I just clicked on your dangerous toys link, and figured you own yourself so hard on a daily basis that there wasn't much of a reason for me to do anything but laugh.

[justinhutchins]

If you have not gotten the idea yet, I will not be letting this pass. It is the only item that I can think of in any game, most importantly AC, that has given an innate advantage to players based on nothing more than buying the game at the right time. It is not right and I believe it is deterring new or returning players. I want AC to thrive while at the same time enjoying a level but challenging playing field. Please do not attempt to push my morals aside without, at the very least, giving an argument. And stop acting like Turbine has yet to take any of this in to consideration, they have made several posts regarding their contemplation, limitations, and expectations of their solution to this problem.

[Sizlunt DT]

If you have not gotten the idea yet, I will not be letting this pass. It is the only item that I can think of in any game, especially AC, that has given an innate advantage to players based on nothing more than buying the game at the right time. It is not right and I believe it is deterring new or returning players. I want AC to thrive while at the same time enjoying a level but challenging playing field. Please do not attempt to push my morals aside without, at the very least, giving an argument.

The thing that sucks about it is we told Turbine well in advance of the release of ToD that it would be a problem, and they flat out ignored it. Worse, actually, they said, as usual, we know better than you, so bugger off. Why they didn't make the armor one, as was suggested, the pre-order bonus is beyond me, thier refusal at the time was nothing more than supremely arrogant, stubborn behavior.

[Jin Saotome]

Ohh stab to the heart, a pathetic guy who plays with dolls in his spare time away from playing AC nearly non-stop doesn't like my kind. I started to get irritated, but then I just clicked on your dangerous toys link, and figured you own yourself so hard on a daily basis that there wasn't much of a reason for me to do anything but laugh.

You went to my site? Woohoo! Thanks for the support. Many people don't even click, they see the word 'toys' in the link and are just turned off. You've shown that you have some love for toys and figures (we do try to leave the word 'dolls' for Barbies and such) afterall, taking the time to see what the site was all about.

Yeah, I own myself a lot unfortunatly. When you cut yourself with a wolverine made with bladed, steel claws, how can you NOT laugh? Or take a chunk out of your palm with a high-speed rotary tool? Fortunatly the hundreds upon hundreds of dollars I make selling them supplies me with many band-aids and gauze.

Ah! Back on topic tho... The dreaded HP gem. See, there's been soooo many things that 'could' of been done to enrich the game, that haven't because of the PK factor. How something could effect PK, how we have to accomodate one server over all the others, etc. Things were changed, weapons nerfed, and time spent solely over PK efforts that made AC less of what it is for everyone else.

And ya know what? The PK players STILL aren't happy with the game. They STILL demand Turbine change everything and think of themselves over others. Well guess what, you snooze, you loose. I'm rather happy with my 10% health gem, and I know should I ever decide to go PK, I can crush my non-gem opponent that much easier. And the Raven Fury spell isn't bad either.

Was... there.... anything else you all wanted to complain about?

[justinhutchins]

*For those interested in continuing the arguement of the preorder HP gem, you can read my previous posts and/or the second paragraph of this one.*

Your post made me angry Jin and typically, for me, it takes more than a few meager words to manifest such an emotion. At first, I wanted to jump right in to it and give you my logical response that negated your entire post and be done with it. I wanted to do this so that we could continue with the real argument but then I really thought about what you were saying and I realized why I was angry. I realized that half of your post consisted of a personal defense regarding your interest in action figures, something you enjoy, and the other part of your post was a personal attack against what someone else enjoys, namely PvP. I believe that ability to completely disregard something that makes other people happy and truthfully has no effect on what you enjoy is what bothered me the most. You do not seem to be looking at AC in the big picture. PvP is a part of AC and always has been, it is not some fire in the downstairs lobby of Turbine's office that requires money to be fixed. It is a part of the game, a game that you say you enjoy; the game that Turbine created. PvP also brings players to this game and keeps interest alive for those that have had their fill of lore and role-playing. It provides much needed profit so that the game can continue and more additions can be made (not only to PvP might I add). You do not have to participate, nor do you reap any major loses by it existing, in fact; I will argue that it makes your situation in to a better one. I cannot see your logic when you say Turbine has incorporated changes in to DT that have negatively affected PVE such as weapons being "nerfed". In my opinion, weapons have only gotten stronger since the game began not vise versa. If you are complaining about a weapon getting weaker, would you do the same if it got stronger? Would a weapon that one-hit your enemies bother you? Should there be a challenge what-so-ever? Moreover, I would contend that a majority of the game environment is geared towards people that PvE, is it that you want more? They do incorporate ideas, items, and rewards in to the game that are meant for PvE players. Are quests that yield titles and lore put in to the game for those most interested in PvP? What about the giant landscape filled with NPCs that cannot wait to warn you of approaching danger; is that to a gift from Turbine to those that play to PvP? I have never argued to get something added to the game, only changes to those changes that have made PvP difficult and unappealing. Everybody plays the game for a different reason, are you so self-righteous that you cannot acknowledge that? Here is a question: if Turbine keeps a majority of the player base happy, what happens? Does the game progress and thrive for years to come and what happens if they do not? Maybe DT has gotten more focus than it is used to lately but that was because it was necessary. Turbine did ignore that aspect of the game for the first years of its arrival and I can guarantee you that they have not made their primary goal to make PvP the uppermost playing style of AC.

So let us continue on because we really have gotten off topic. First, I would like to say that I really love how you attacked me for writing too much on the subject, when all you have done is ignore my posts and conjure topics not related to the argument. All you have done is stated that we are "complaining". Well, what are you doing might I ask? Here is a more appropriate question, when Coke changed its traditional flavor back in the early 90's, a formula that had stood the test of time since the beginning of the 1900s and riots almost broke out amongst their consumers, what did Coke do? They changed it back. Why did they do it? To keep Coke from going under and to let the taste live on for years to come? The point here is that people complain for a reason whether it be for morals, logic, justice, or freedom and to me this gem, however mundane or superficial it may seem to you, has violated all of them. All that is necessary for DT to exist is a level playing field from the start. Not only has the HP gem created an imbalance, one that undeniably has an effect (you even stated so in your post) on PvP, but it also affects the population. I am a loyal customer to Turbine but right now Turbine is a not a loyal company to me. They have incorporated an item that literally insults me and almost kept me from returning, one that could potentially do the same to any new or returning player and for what? What was their reason? If it was so good, why will they not tell us and why are they trying to fix it? Most importantly, why not give it to everyone? Would the PvE players on the white worlds without the gem enjoy getting it? Would those that got it when it came out be losing something if we were required to do the same thing they did or even more? Even though I have probably reiterated myself nearly fifteen times on this thread alone, I do not mind doing it for you as well Jin. I have given you just an angle here, if you really want to jump in to an argument that does not affect you when your complaint is that I write too much, then I can only hope you hold the capacity to at least give me the respect of reading my posts before you respond so I am not forced to repeat myself again. Just to be clear, I have covered this premise more thoroughly in other posts.

[Moxie]

LoL don't worry to much Just, he still thinks life magic rules "the upper class" eh!

Maybe he just feels the need ta talk tuff like so many others here?

[Pimpinsins]

ok guy if you wont even give me your ig so I can see what level you are on darktide or how good you are at pvping you should in no way ever talk about what they should do to fix pvp

[justinhutchins]

*To those taking place in the argument; this post holds very little, if any, perspective regarding the preorder gem. It is advised, considering your will to take place in it, that you read a previous post that seems relevant to the argument.*


Pimpsins, I do not mean to sound condescending in this post and I appologize ahead of time, but this is about the tenth time I have responded to you about the exact same thing and it is getting old. I am anticipating here that If I meet you on your own grounds, we can put an end to this preventative conversation. Do you believe you hold the knowledge to tell someone what they should or should not do? If you do, I once again hope you can read my last post directed towards you because I have already relayed that I am not here to prove some ego driven conversation with you. In fact, you have done absolutely nothing to prove or disprove any of my arguments except for a few poorly thought out posts that did nothing but help the cause that much more. All you have done is attack me, which makes you seem less credible. I am here to argue the overwhelming and unnecessary effects of the HP gem; something that anyone with a little intelligence, knowledge of business, morals, and a clear view of games as a whole can do. Even if I had no skill what-so-ever, this gem would still be affecting me, the same as it would if I was the best player on the server; if I was level 10 or level 200. It seems that you have yet to read the argument or even comprehend it. Why is it that I must have skill to argue common sense or business? Do the corporate executives that give their "okay" for major changes to be made to the game have this so called "skill" you deem necessary to take place in the argument? What about the programmers that implement such advised changes, do all of them have level 275 characters? What about every developer that Turbine has working on AC, do they all possess it? I think not. This gem affects both players that have been in the game for several years and those just returning or starting their adventures in to Dereth, it only makes sense that anyone that this gem affects can take place in the argument. This is just to let you in on the big secret; I am not the first person to "complain" about this gem, nor will I be the last. I, along with many long time players, players with the gem, and players without have put forth the argument, just because you have a personal vendetta against me does not mean you are doing anything other than making that fact known. This gem does affect the game play, the population, and Turbine's reputation; it was a horrible idea and Turbine has made it known they are negotiating a fix for it. Anyone that cares about the game's future and how they are treated by a company can take place in this argument even if they have only been playing for a day.

As for your curiosity, I enjoy my privacy on these forums and the main reason for that is there are people like you that are ready to take advantage of my prudent nature. I would most likely get a headache if you were ever to message me in game because of your inability to write clearly and with purpose and I dislike headaches. I have nothing to prove to you. Like I always do, I will now bow my head in prayer, in hopes that you can and will see the point of my posts and respond accordingly. I do believe I am developing the ability to predict the future and I see many repetitions of already stated material in the future. I believe a previous poster on these forums said it best when he declared, "I have just come to the realization that I literally type thousands of characters on these forums everyday and for absolutely no reason".

[tarmacevo]

Okay lets face it, turbine, and 99% of the people on this site do not care about pvp... Let them all run their course and run pvp and this game into the ground


ps. like omg we need new dyes and can we get a ac pet like paris hiltons...

[shizzuh]

Dear Turbine Developers,

We (the entire Darktide server) need an update on this issue. Please compile one in the nearest future.

Thanks in advance.

[Scathe]

They added their version of a balance. A ****** three piece jewelry set that takes up room and doesn't allow you to use the +30 health necklace.

GG.

[justinhutchins]

Read through the thread. We have already talked about that.

Not only does that not balance out the health but it was not intended as a fix from Turbine and will no longer be available after the story arc is over.

[Circa Survive]

cool another Hey i have this and you cant get it anymore thing

[Aquilis]

Something should definitely be done to balance this hp issue; especially now that Raven's Fury/Super CB crits are the hot items in pvp. That extra % of hp has decided the outcome of thousands of fights in which it could have been very different.


The players who were loyal to the game deserve it.

[Thadda Al-Munik]

If I could earn this in any fashion, I would own any mage on my server.

[justinhutchins]

The players who were loyal to the game deserve it.

Aquilis, your post did not even respond to the quote you used in it. All you did was make an opinionated statement of entitlement; I hope you realize that. Furthermore, I really appreciate how you have completely disregarded the last eight pages of this thread merely because you did not have the patience to read it before you responded. Let me fill you in about your "loyalty" argument.

Anyone with a little knowledge of business and the market today would describe the "golden" or loyal customer as someone who is willing to recieve the desired product or service from one company over all the others regardless of price or changes in the market. As it applies to AC, that is someone who has refused to change games just because the graphics, content, or lore of another is better or percieved as better by the general public. One could also consider a "loyal" customer as someone who donates a majority of their playing time to AC even if they play other games, or one could even be described as a person who simply is paying for Turbine's game and plans on continuing. There is a varying definition for the word loyal as it applies to the game industry but I believe any of the latter could be considered as recognizable definitions.

Now, let us apply it to the current problem or situation. Is someone who stopped playing for a year, or even five years still a loyal customer if they did not have the money or time to play games? Of course, just because someone stops playing games does not mean they are not loyal. One could easily have the will to play games again and go right back to playing that company's game without giving attention to any others because they are a loyal customer. What about a player who joined or rejoined the game right after the gem was no longer released and plans on playing this game until it stops, are they not loyal just because they had no prior knowledge of the game? I am afraid they are too. How long must someone play in your eyes to be considered loyal? Is one or two years not enough because if that were true, than anyone who had only been playing for that amount of time before the gem was released would not be a loyal customer? The same applies to any player who has played the game for many years but was taking a break from the MMORPG world. These are all "loyal" customers that missed the chance to get the gem and there are quite a few of us.

The real question, which brings me to my next point is, were there customers that were not loyal that also recieved the gem? I think it is quite obvious that the expansion containing the gem was not limited to only those players that had been playing for several years and in fact had little, if any, to do with "loyalty". Many brand new players just started when it came out and had no credibility with Turbine, yet they still got a gem. If you do not believe a player returning today or someone who returned shortly after the gem was taken out of the package is loyal, then how is someone who returned at the exact same time as the gem implementation a loyal customer? Moreover, I am sure there were many players that quit shortly after beginning because they did not like the game or because they were not loyal customers but still got the gem. If you want to argue that the customers were loyal merely because they bought the game at that time then what about the masses that have bought it since, why do they not hold it? Ultimately, I believe it is clear that many loyal customers did not recieve the gem and even more non-loyal customers did. This would make it safe to assume that rewarding "loyalty" was not Turbine's intention.

That brings me to the next question; is the gem doing harm to AC and Turbine's reputation? Well, let me answer that question by posing another;how do you think it makes a new or returning player feel that Turbine gave new and returning players an advantage but will not do the same for them? The point is that the preorder gem does throw off the underlying mathematical balance of the game. Anyone joining the game should have, at the very least, the same potential as anyone else when starting the game. That does not mean that someone starting with an innate endurance of 10 should have the same health as someone with 100 innate endurance but it means that they should have that choice. Thirty health does make a difference and has been the deciding factor for thousands of fights, even the considered "best" PvPers on DT will agree that thirty health makes a huge difference. People are able to build better templates that dominate soley based around the gem.

Even if I had the gem, and I have heard many people give the same argument that actually have it, I would still have a problem with it. PvP is about competitiveness and no player with a little integrity enjoys winning a fight that required no challenge. To give you a metaphor; when I am playing pool, I do not enjoy beating someone who is at a far lower skill level than I am but I do enjoy the challenge of playing someone at my level. To tailor that metaphor to the exact problem, I would say it is the exact same as playing someone who has an equal amount of skill but does not have a tip on their pool stick; I am sure to win but not because I am better. The point I am trying to make is that many people that have the gem also have a problem with the imbalance it creates or will agree that something needs to be done. Some people do not like the idea of winning a fight because they had an advantage of health.

Does everyone expect to just be handed the gem? No, there is no reason why a player should not be capable of earning it though, whether it be through money, augmentations, required play time, or long and complex quests. I guess what I am really trying to say is that allowing the playerbase to earn the gem will not take it away from those "loyal" customers that recieved it or any customer for that matter, it will allow all the loyal customers that were missed an oppurtunity to achieve it. It will level the playing field and allow skilled players, once again, the ability to beat those opponents who had less skill but an overall advantage because of the gem.

I will stop here, because everything has already been said. I encourage you to read through this thread to find of all the problems this gem creates and then answer the question; why should it not be accessable to players given the amount of problems it causes?

[Kool-Aide]

it's like 20 HP's big whoop i have it but i am not gonna cry about it if i lost it. It doesn't unbalance anything. If somebody hits you with a dagger your back to the regular amount of health your back at. It's 20 HP's big whoop. Your all crying over something you didn't get when they offered it you all had a chance. They will probably end up putting a quest for a gem if not 10% it would be like 5 or 8% it's really not that big of a deal guys seriously. You might think 20 points could save your life... it might. It might not. If your good at pking you won't need it. Sorry about being so blunt but i hear so many people complain about not having it but everyday i get killed by somebody who doesn't have one. It doesn't make them more powerful having it. You are just as vulnerable if you have it than don't have it. My 2 cents...

[ChildoftheKoRn]

it's like 20 HP's big whoop i have it but i am not gonna cry about it if i lost it. It doesn't unbalance anything. If somebody hits you with a dagger your back to the regular amount of health your back at. It's 20 HP's big whoop. Your all crying over something you didn't get when they offered it you all had a chance. They will probably end up putting a quest for a gem if not 10% it would be like 5 or 8% it's really not that big of a deal guys seriously. You might think 20 points could save your life... it might. It might not. If your good at pking you won't need it. Sorry about being so blunt but i hear so many people complain about not having it but everyday i get killed by somebody who doesn't have one. It doesn't make them more powerful having it. You are just as vulnerable if you have it than don't have it. My 2 cents...

10% of 200hp is 20. 10% of 300 is 30. 10% of 400 is 40.

So your quite a bit off. But that still has the 1 to 2 hit difference between a kill or not as well as quality of assurance seeing that their are people out there in countries that they would not sell too at the time that wanted to get not only the pre-order but the gem as well but couldnt, not only that but people couldnt exactly spend the time to gt it cause they were possibly dodging bullets in a place called the middle east.

[N Oo B]

too long, didn't read anybody else's BS


when do we get any official response as to the course of action?

[ChildoftheKoRn]

Turbine did make an announcement on it.

They said there is no course of action.

[woz]

Turbine did make an announcement on it.

They said there is no course of action.

Where and when? They stated about a month ago that they were considering their options and stated a few possible ideas (I think it was 8% aug and a fee for the gem)

[N Oo B]

bump for a good cause




turbine needs to see we're still hounding them about this.