Extinction's Opinion on PvP Fixing.

[Extinction]

Extinction's Opinion on PvP Fixing - Part I

First of let me open by explaining the difference between the 3 main classes in AC.

Mages
Mages were always thought of as 'the most powerful' class in AC, which I guess was true at times.

Mages have high damage using War Magic, but alot of war spells miss their target. I have shot over 50 wars in a few minutes at some people without one hitting them.

Mages cannot move too far while trying to attack/cast a spell, or the spell will fizzle and not cast at all.

Mages use alot of expensive spell components to fight with.

Melees
Melees were always thought of as 'the worst' class in AC, which was also true at times.

Melees can inflict alot of damage using their Weeping weapons, and generally all their attacks will hit their targets.

Melees have great defense against mages due to their Aegis, which combined with Major Wards can reduce even the highest level mages damage to double digits.

Archers
There was a time where archers reigned undisputed in Dereth, but that was long ago.

Archers can inflict decent damage using their Weeping Bow, but at the same time alot of their attacks will miss their target - not only by the target dodging it themself, but also missle defense which is a popular choice of skill these days.

Archers can dodge war spells with ease - with no fear of 'fizzling' their attack, and by setting their attack bar to the lowest, it takes but half a second to shoot an arrow.

The Problems
Here I would like to explain the main problems, in my opinion, in PvP today.

Lack of Skill
The biggest problem I see today is the game being geared more and more towards those with uber levels, uber items, and uber characters.

There was once a time when a level 126 mage had next to no advantage over a level 70 mage - there was no skill based war damage or maxed out skills and next to no unique spell casting items such as Helm of Knorr, and also Nuhmudira's Bestowment, not to mention Major/Minor spells - let alone no drop, major ward casting shadow armor

These days is alot different. Now War Magic damage increases significantly with skill, with 350 base war magic inflicting average 150-180 damage (granted the target is not wearing any wards, or aegis etc), compared to 381 (maxed) war inflicting an average of 200-230 damage.

Those who can afford, and also carry, a full suit of Greater Shadow Celdon armor, with extra girths with different major wards in them clearly have an advantage over the normal player, being able to switch to the element the enemy is using, and reduce the damage by 15% (consider a level 80 mage fighting someone with 409 Health, and major wards, it's nearly impossible for the level 80 to win.).

Then there is the Melee Factor - a class that has without a doubt the most advantages over the other classes, which includes The Big Three
- The Aegis: A much needed melee item, which was implemented quite well by itself.
- Weeping Weapons: These babies can cut through al 600+ double baned (Impen+banes on the armor itself, and also impen+banes on the targets underclothes) tinkered armor doing over 50 damage each hit (remember, you can't dodge these attacks)
- Sticky Melee: Also a much needed addition to the melee class, although not implemented quite as well as the Aegis. A melee with say, 300 run, can sticky to a character with say, 400 run, with no problems whatsoever, chasing them off the edge of Dereth if need be.

Now, by themselves these advantages would be perfectly fine, however they aren't.

Not only do melees have great damage that is not dodgeable but they also have the best defense against magic in the game, combined with the fact you cannot escape a melee without using a poorly 'fixed' exploit, it's safe to say Melees are now the top dogs of Dereth.

Let's not forget the Pink Factor - Part I - yes I'm talking about PKLite.

PKLite is in my opinion a good idea, but like some of Turbines other game additions, was not implemented very well. I'm talking about the effect PKLite has on Regular, Red, PK with fixes for PKL game play also affecting RRPK gameplay.

Last of all we have almost lost our ability to Fight the Numbers, a contribution from PKLite, changes in the game have increased characters abilities to fight 1 versus 1, which unfortunatley also affects their ability to group fight, overpowering certain classes in many cases.

Unlike the past where someone could take on as many as 10 (ten) people and come out on top, taking on the odds these days usually ends with vitae.

The main things contributing to this problem is arcs, and super powered melees.

These are just the main problems I could think of, there are many more, minor problems that I wont go into.

The Fixes
There is not an easy way to 'fix' PvP and make it once more a fun, enjoyable activity in which individual skill reigns supreme, rather than who has the levels, numbers, and items.

The Pink Factor - Part II
The first thing I would do with PvP in Asheron's Call would be to seperate Player Killing Lite patch updates from Regular Player Killing updates.

Red and Pink PK'ing are two completely different things. Here is a breakdown of the differences;
- PKL is, as it's name implies, a lite, less 'hardcore' version of PK.

This means no looting, which in turn allows people who choose to turn PKL to carry their most expensive, best items with them, which obviously give them a huge advantage compared to a regular PK who is forced to carry low value, less 'uber' items, due to the fact they would most likely drop and lose more expensive, better items.

- PKL is a temporary state, which means a player may spend an hour as a PKL whenever they choose.

This means they can be 100% fully prepared before running into a fight, whereas a regular PK will not necessarily be as ready as their PKL counterparts.

Obviously this creates an advantage for PKL players, for example they will most likely not be caught out without banes (perhaps even double banes) and get surprisingly 2 shotted by an unfriendly melee.

This also means a PKL can turn NPK and level up, find new items, or quest, alot quicker and easier than a regular PK, giving them the advantage of being able build alot of levels and items to use in combat.

- PKL is used only on NPK servers, which are proven to have better lag than the PK server. Obviously lag affects PvP a great deal.

- There are many people who use PKL that have had little, to no PvP experience before. This increases the amount of suggestions to make it 'easier' for them.

Again, this is just the tip of the ice burg, there is an endless amount of differences between the two PvP modes, but this short list should show that clearly the two modes are different and do require different updates.

One of the possible changes to both would be to gear PKL more to 1 versus 1 combat, and gear regulary PK to group and 'fighting the odds' combat.

[Extinction]

Extinction's Opinion on PvP Fixing - Part II

Changes to Regular Player Killing Combat
Here is a short list of changes I would make to Player Killing combat.

Melee Combat
To fix, or at least improve balance with Melee PvP combat, I would nerf either (NOT all of them, only one of them)

a) Melee damage.
If a class has an inescapable, undodgeable yet very powerful attack, while having the best defense against magic in the game, it makes things worse for everyone. Lowering melee damage by alot, perhaps cutting it in half, would definatley balance things out alot.

b) Melee players defense against war magic.
If a class is going to be able to do such powerful damage, they should for no reason have such a powerful defense such as the Aegis. Again, removing this shield completely would definatley balance things out alot.

c) Sticky melee.
A class with a powerful, undodgeable attack, on top of awesome defense, wouldn't be overpowered - if they were escapable! This would be my last choice to fix melee, but it is a valid choice nonetheless, and would also help balance things out a bit.

Knocking just one of these out of the game would make it alot more enjoyable, and fair for everyone.

Increase Power Bar speed
This would help melees take more powerful swings, thus getting out of a mages face that little bit sooner.

Mage Combat
To help balance Mage Combat, first of all I would

Reduce Arc 'Target Area'
Meaning, make the area an arc 'covers' smaller than it currently is, this would mostly help when 'fighting the odds'.

Increase how far a mage can move while casting
I know this was already done, but in my opinion it is still not enough. Not only would this help with lag, but also in fights where alot of movement is necessary (lag is a big factor in this, running to a spot, stopping for a second, casting, then still fizzling is a big disadvantage in a fight)

Reduce War Magic skill effect on damage
Cut the modifier in half, perhaps into a quarter of what it is currently. This would make high levels a little less dominant, while keeping their advantage, also while bringing the game back down to more of an even playing field.

Archer Combat
To give this almost dead PvP class a hand, I would do the following

Archer Aegis
While not as powerful as the melee Aegis, something that would lower war magic damage just a little bit would help archers alot.

Attack Animation Based on Base Quickness
This would give benefits to archers who have higher quickness, compared to those who sacrifice quickness for other stats. Increase the speed of the animation gradually until 290 base quickness where it caps with 100 starting, making it roughly twice as fast as someone with 200 base quickness.

Slightly Bigger Attack 'Area' for missle ammunition
This would make it harder for people to dodge missle attacks.

Change Missle Defense Forumla
Changing this to Quickness+Coordination/7, compared to the current Quickness+Coordination/5 would greatly help archers - remember, increasing the power bar for archers doesn't increase damage, while a benefit some times, at other times it is a huge disadvantage.

Changes to General PvP and Asheron's Call
There are some general changes I would make to the PvP playing experience as a whole.

Remove the 'Stamina Penalty' on Jumping
This did not fix the jump spin exploit, it just made playing a whole lot more annoying.

Fix the 'Jump Spin' exploit
Possibly try to make sticky melee also 'sticky' through a persons jump, so when the target jumps, the melee gets 'pulled' into the air following in their footsteps, I have no idea if this would work, but it is worth suggesting.

Make Run Skill based
After a while run becomes whoever has the best connection and best lag. Not fun playing from Australia like this.

Change the Death Item System back for Player Killers
I haven't really looked into the new system, but in the past it was alot harder to lose items, this made people less scared to fight. The way it is now, I believe the fear of losing items is one of the main reasons people are scared to fight at all, even in groups.

Prismatic Pea's
I've been using the old style components recently and I love not having to restock at the mage for days at a time.. this would benefit everybody, not just Player Killers.

Change the CoC on Darktide
Part of being on the 'hardcore' PvP server is getting alot more heated over the game, it's a natural thing people do. Sometimes they express their heat by abusing their enemies. I believe the warning of Darktide being a harsher world should be enough for anyone who is offended by little things like cuss words, to take their ball and go home.

Then there is UCM - Unattended Combat Macroing. The idea of UCM bans were to stop people from griefing others who are in their area, AFK, and earning experience. Well, on Darktide you can kill anyone who is doing this, that nullifies that point. On top of that, it is alot more difficult to gain XP on Darktide compared to gaining XP on an NPK server, you have to deal with raids, 'call to arms', etc, so being able to UCM on Darktide would be basically on-par with the NPK servers ability to gain experience.

Stop Adding Unrecallable Dungeons!!!!!
On top of this request, I would also like you to make alot of dungeons tieable, or at least recallable for PK's.

This would add to the value of certain places, and create more PvP action.

Thankyou for reading this, I hope I got some good points across

Note to NPK/PKL players: These changes were designed for regular PK, not PKL, so if you do not regulary turn red, or are not always red, please don't comment on these changes. Also if in the future you are making a post of your own with changes to PK(L) suggest to separate the two, this would make us get along much better, and basically make us both enjoy the game alot more.

Thanks

[Paraduck]

Nice post. I could live with what you proposed if it was all implemented. It touches on the largest issues in PK combat and provides reasonable solutions. :)

[MomentofClarity]

"Change the Death Item System back for Player Killers
I haven't really looked into the new system, but in the past it was alot harder to lose items, this made people less scared to fight. The way it is now, I believe the fear of losing items is one of the main reasons people are scared to fight at all, even in groups."

Only thing I drop is scarabs, tapers, and al 75 gloves on my char. I r braveheart :D

[Genji-Glove]

I agree with most of your post except one thing.

The idea that you can kill all UCM players on DT is false. Players now have programs that will log off when a PK player is near them and will log back on/off until the area is clear. This makes it impossible for someone that is macroing to be killed.

The one thing that you definately missed is the housing issue.

Ever since housing was implemented with Dark Majesty, players on DT have had 'safe zones' which was not the case before Dark Majesty's release. These safe zones ruin one of the most enjoyable things there is on a pvp server, raiding other guilds and defending your own guild.

My proposed fix for having safe zones is to either take out the ability for PK players to recall to mansion's and guild housing, or to remove guild housing entirely.

This would make guilds start to use lifestones and dungeons as meeting spots again.

[Extinction]

Originally posted by Genji-Glove
I agree with most of your post except one thing.

The idea that you can kill all UCM players on DT is false. Players now have programs that will log off when a PK player is near them and will log back on/off until the area is clear. This makes it impossible for someone that is macroing to be killed.

Yes, but if you want to hunt in that area the player will continue logging off and back on, therefore not hunting and not disrupting you.

Originally posted by Genji-Glove
The one thing that you definately missed is the housing issue.

Ever since housing was implemented with Dark Majesty, players on DT have had 'safe zones' which was not the case before Dark Majesty's release. These safe zones ruin one of the most enjoyable things there is on a pvp server, raiding other guilds and defending your own guild.

My proposed fix for having safe zones is to either take out the ability for PK players to recall to mansion's and guild housing, or to remove guild housing entirely.

This would make guilds start to use lifestones and dungeons as meeting spots again.

Yes, I did miss out on this as I was trying to focus more on the actual combat, but this is a valid topic.

I think the best way to fix this would be to allow PK's to 'ignore' the barriers, meaning they can walk inside, cast over, pretty much act around houses as if there was no barrier.

[Paraduck]

Originally posted by Extinction
I think the best way to fix this would be to allow PK's to 'ignore' the barriers, meaning they can walk inside, cast over, pretty much act around houses as if there was no barrier. That opens the possibility for griefing on white servers. Perhaps a special option would be for the code to check the motd file for the world "Darktide (PK Only)", and if that's the case, then disable barriers entirely. Whether it's feasible or not is another question.

[Extinction]

Originally posted by Paraduck
That opens the possibility for griefing on white servers. Perhaps a special option would be for the code to check the motd file for the world "Darktide (PK Only)", and if that's the case, then disable barriers entirely. Whether it's feasible or not is another question.

Or just make it so PK's can go through other PK's house barriers, even if they're npk due to dying.

[Paraduck]

Originally posted by Extinction
Or just make it so PK's can go through other PK's house barriers, even if they're npk due to dying. That seems like a much more complicated solution, imo.

[MomentofClarity]

Make it on DT only, problem solved. It wouldnt cause much griefing on npk servers because you are not pk all the time.

[thecookie]

I havn't played for like 5-6 months now so I don't know if this issue has been fixed.

A big issue is Archers vs. Sheilds. A melee is unkillable by an archer with a buffed sheild, the shield dosn't even need to be tinkered. A fully tinkered shield is a nightmare.

I think I can live with that. The issue is that any class can take up a buffed shield and reduce the damage alot. If an archer has done some damage on a mage the mage can take up a shield and heal up without risking to be killed.

I don't know how to solve this, maybe add a skillcheck on shields?

[Paraduck]

Originally posted by thecookie
I havn't played for like 5-6 months now so I don't know if this issue has been fixed.

A big issue is Archers vs. Sheilds. A melee is unkillable by an archer with a buffed sheild, the shield dosn't even need to be tinkered. A fully tinkered shield is a nightmare.

I think I can live with that. The issue is that any class can take up a buffed shield and reduce the damage alot. If an archer has done some damage on a mage the mage can take up a shield and heal up without risking to be killed.

I don't know how to solve this, maybe add a skillcheck on shields? Weeping Weapons ignore shields, but even so, the missile classes are vastly underpowered and melees and archers will have lots (more in the case of missile weapon users) of damage issues now that Weepings are going to be debuffable this coming patch.

[Andiglo]

Extinction: thanks for the well verbalized post.

I think the assumption you had is that melee's rule PvP.. I don't think this is true.

While it is true melee's have the best defense against war magic, a melee's defense won't kill a mage. A mage can take a few hits from melee with no trouble at all, and just cast a simple heal or stam to health, never needing to change to a wand. A melee can never get hit more than once, and sometimes needs to run around until he can properly heal, which can take a bit more work.

Melee weeping does do a lot of damage, but mages have weeping too, and they do a lot of damage as well. Now that melee and archer weapons are debuffable for damage, it adds even more abilities for mages to be on top of PvP.

Regarding sticky melee, it's not important. A mage who is running away, is a fool, and should instead cast a war spell, or cast a heal spell. I can see if the mage is nearly out of health, but if that's the case, the problem was created long before a mage gets to that point.

Nearly everybody I know agrees that PKL is highly weighted to mages. DT, its' a bit different, but then my focus isn't for DT.

[Extinction]

Originally posted by Andiglo
Extinction: thanks for the well verbalized post.

I think the assumption you had is that melee's rule PvP.. I don't think this is true.

While it is true melee's have the best defense against war magic, a melee's defense won't kill a mage. A mage can take a few hits from melee with no trouble at all, and just cast a simple heal or stam to health, never needing to change to a wand. A melee can never get hit more than once, and sometimes needs to run around until he can properly heal, which can take a bit more work.

Here is the usual scenario when I go out to PvP.

Recall to Aphus or whatever, choose a target, usually a mage, vuln him and start warring.

Eventually they will call their fellow on me, imp+vuln me, then I will get 1-3 melees on me.

In AL 600+ double baned armor they will crit for over 100 damage, which I cannot dodge.

I try to fight the melees, but they simple run off and heal if they get hit.. a luxury I don't have when they hit me.

Originally posted by Andiglo
Melee weeping does do a lot of damage, but mages have weeping too, and they do a lot of damage as well. Now that melee and archer weapons are debuffable for damage, it adds even more abilities for mages to be on top of PvP.

Not at all, it just means melee will have to unequip their weapon while a mage is casting Blood Loather - and in group fights, you can't debuff 2-3 melees before they've killed you.

Originally posted by Andiglo
Regarding sticky melee, it's not important. A mage who is running away, is a fool, and should instead cast a war spell, or cast a heal spell. I can see if the mage is nearly out of health, but if that's the case, the problem was created long before a mage gets to that point.

If you get left alone fighting 7 people who have 1-2 melees, you want to run away, but obviously you can't. If this was 7 mages, you could run away with no problems.

Originally posted by Andiglo
Nearly everybody I know agrees that PKL is highly weighted to mages. DT, its' a bit different, but then my focus isn't for DT.

Then you didn't read the last part of my post, where I kindly asked people who aren't RED to post here, as PK and PKL are two completely different things.

Your post is invalid, due to the fact you were talking about PKL the whole time. Sorry.

[Andiglo]

I'm not talking about you vs 3-4 melees in your example to my reply above.

I'm talking about 1 vs 1, which is most of PvP on non-DT worlds.

[Virindi Clown]

You can escape for melees any time you want. It's called spin jump. That's how everyone escapes from me non-stop. People love to use the little trick where you hit ~ and lose no stamina so they can spin jump infinitely.

[Extinction]

Originally posted by Virindi Clown
You can escape for melees any time you want. It's called spin jump. That's how everyone escapes from me non-stop. People love to use the little trick where you hit ~ and lose no stamina so they can spin jump infinitely.

As I said you can't escape them unless you use an exploit

Besides, alot of the time if I jump spin they catch up right away anyway, because as I said, run is all connection based..

But like I said, they do need to fix jump spin, and then remove the stupid stamina penalty, or even remove it now because it's 100% useless.

[Paraduck]

Originally posted by Extinction
Besides, alot of the time if I jump spin they catch up right away anyway, because as I said, run is all connection based..I wish that were so. =\

Originally posted by Extinction
But like I said, they do need to fix jump spin, and then remove the stupid stamina penalty, or even remove it now because it's 100% useless. Agreed that it should be fixed and then removed, but not removed now. Even if it's pretty ineffective, it's still a band-aid that does help to a small degree.

[Extinction]

Come to Darktide Para, you could kill me all day long :)

I did jump spin twice and the melee got shaken for about 3 seconds before he was back on me.

There are also ways of minimising down time from jump spin like this, I think mashing on delete helps alot, I don't play melee though so I wouldn't know.

[Paraduck]

It helps some, as charge speed is faster than running, but there's no way to do it easily. 90% of the time they get away from me after jump spinning.

[Extinction]

When it comes down to it, if melees were nerfed back to something reasonable, we wouldn't need to run.

I would rather stay and fight than run off, but as it is now, melees basically have a 'kill button' so it's no point fighting.

[Andiglo]

Originally posted by Extinction
When it comes down to it, if melees were nerfed back to something reasonable, we wouldn't need to run.

I would rather stay and fight than run off, but as it is now, melees basically have a 'kill button' so it's no point fighting.

Why don't you cast a war spell and hit him for 200 then, if he's attacking or heal?

[Extinction]

Originally posted by Andiglo
Why don't you cast a war spell and hit him for 200 then, if he's attacking or heal?

1. With 360ish base war skill I'd be lucky to hit for over 150.
2. There's a thing called dodging, I don't know if you use this in PKLite, but in PK we sure do.
3. You cannot out heal a melees damage using life magic.

[Andiglo]

Stam to health. If he dodges he's not attacking, so you can heal when he runs away.

[dod]

A good way I see to fix melee player's defense against war magic is to make it so minor/major wards cant be stackable with the aegis shield. I don't wear any wards on me at all and only use aegis shield and I get damage of around 150-200 none crits and get crits of around 220-240. With just aegis shield alone it would seem to make melees a bit easier to dispatch.

[Extinction]

Originally posted by dod
A good way I see to fix melee player's defense against war magic is to make it so minor/major wards cant be stackable with the aegis shield. I don't wear any wards on me at all and only use aegis shield and I get damage of around 150-200 none crits and get crits of around 220-240. With just aegis shield alone it would seem to make melees a bit easier to dispatch.

That is a great idea, but I'm not sure if it is able to be done.. unless you made the Aegis cast a spell on you, depending on skill level you got a different level Aegis spell, this would also show you what % you would be protected by.

[Andiglo]

I think that's a great idea. How much protection is the aegis giving, nobody knows?

[Paraduck]

I think it caps at 20%?

[Frank The Knife]

One think you don't take into account are the mage exploits. You can't balance melee when mages can exploit the animation the way they do.

A mage with 375+ health and enough skill to exploit the animation is still hard to kill even doing crits of 170+.

With your changes these lvl 200+ super mages will be next to impossible to kill. I dont think anyone wants to revisit the days it took 3 melees to kill one mage.

[Som|Blood]

3 melees? no...but you think having two melees on you should mean insta-death?

how many mages does it take to kill a melee that doesn't want to fight? 3^23342433? Well you'll need people to chase him to the edge of the map and people at all his recall points. Seeing as how likely THAT is...I think you get my point.

[KroLeXz]

Its very simple, a devastating weapon should not be questable. If they remove weeping all together it would fix a lot of the problems.


Mage Damage
Melee Damage

If you want a hard hitting weapon, than u need to make a good AR and spend time doing it. NOw any lvl 50 can do the quest and become an asset an another number. DT is very unbalanced when it comes to numbers and guilds, which is fine. Tho when you turn lvl 50's into killing machines than it becomes a problem.

[smaweet]

They need to fix exploits at first priority

A mage who knows how to exploit can ALWAYS run away ALWAYS get a melee to get stuck and have no chance of running away/healing and can ALWAYS attack at superhigh speeds

fix the exploits, lower melee damage a wee bit, get rid of stam jumping penalty, and do something about the difference in the highers level players (ie 80's being able to compare with the 180+ macro/chainers)

[Andiglo]

I don't think you can make a leve 80 every compete with a level 180, that's life.

When I loose to a mage, it's not because of exploits, it's because as a melee, I cannot do enough damage, in comparison to a mage. I have to hit, then run, and avoid every war spell. If you lower a melee damage, I won't hurt at all.

Maybe maxed strength sword guys can, but I have major strength and it's pretty high, and unless I crit or they dont bane, it's a long battle, that I usually loose because eventually they will hit me with 200 war or so, and it's hard to dig out from that (since if I try to heal or drink a potion, I get hit again, I have to run and hide to heal after any war spell lands on me.)

[KroLeXz]

sorry I was refering to Darktide, where we don't have 1 v 1's, its all about group battles - and a lvl 50 with a weeping added to a group is just as affective as a lvl 180.

[KroLeXz]

also, I feel mages should be more powerful. It does cost the most to spec war. Regardless I was not talking about 1 v 1 - cuz frankly u can never balance 1 v 1 and group fighting. Thats why for pinkies they should add their patches for them. And try to rebalance DT - RPK.

[Andiglo]

Originally posted by KroLeXz
also, I feel mages should be more powerful. It does cost the most to spec war. Regardless I was not talking about 1 v 1 - cuz frankly u can never balance 1 v 1 and group fighting. Thats why for pinkies they should add their patches for them. And try to rebalance DT - RPK.

I think the argument of skill cost is BS. A mage with max self and focus need only spec War to play a melee. A melee has to spec his or her skill AND must spec life magic, AND if you want the most from your Aegis, you should either dump a huge amount into a Magic D, or you also spec Magic D.

For me I also spec healing so I can heal after getting hit for 200.

[smaweet]

a level 80 mage won't land a single spell or hit for nearly enough damage on a level 180, you try landing on max end/foc/magic d chars

btw weeping is lvl 60+ ;)

[KroLeXz]

than that mage suks, u want me to name 10 lvl 80 and even lower mages that destory lvl 200+?

[Extinction]

Originally posted by Andiglo
I don't think you can make a leve 80 every compete with a level 180, that's life.

When I loose to a mage, it's not because of exploits, it's because as a melee, I cannot do enough damage, in comparison to a mage. I have to hit, then run, and avoid every war spell. If you lower a melee damage, I won't hurt at all.

Maybe maxed strength sword guys can, but I have major strength and it's pretty high, and unless I crit or they dont bane, it's a long battle, that I usually loose because eventually they will hit me with 200 war or so, and it's hard to dig out from that (since if I try to heal or drink a potion, I get hit again, I have to run and hide to heal after any war spell lands on me.)

Come on man, I said these changes of for RED PK not PKL, it's obvious you only PKLite so please stop yapping on this thread.

[smaweet]

Also, he is too used to fighting people with 410+ hp and tinkered armor.

A mage with a good 250-300hp can easily be taken down by a melee if you get a crit or two in. It is very very hard to make up for mistakes with little health.

[Andiglo]

Extinction's world at DT, max level required, 80.

[Extinction]

I played a melee the other day, first time since beta, tanked 2 wars and finished the mage off basically by pressing Delete.

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[Virindi Clown]

Was he level 3 lol? Honestly, I've never been able to do that to anyone unless they were a newbie or unbaned. I don't exactly think melees are overpowered. I think they're perfectly fair, but the game has become too gank oriented, just because of the way everything is done now. It wasn't that way in the beginning, and the way PvP should be moving is not to make melees or anyone less powerful, but to make it less focused on huge group fights.

It works very strange now. Everything hits quite hard, but there are a zillion ways to save yourself in an instant, so you have to be in groups to attack one person with more than one at a time to win a fight without everyone just trading attacks between eachother until their buffs run out.

[Andiglo]

Originally posted by Extinction
I played a melee the other day, first time since beta, tanked 2 wars and finished the mage off basically by pressing Delete.

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Tell the mages to bane next time.

[Virindi Clown]

I'd like a non-sticky attack for melees, and either a weaker one that stickies, or for the range of power from the meter to be increased so speed does less and power does more. That solves the ganks and makes the 1 on 1 better.

Full power could do a load of damage, but you really don't actually fight someone using that, you might just get one hit in and it would happen to be a crit, so people say it does too much damage. That's just good timing, and wars always do more, anyhow. It would make right above medium power better, and that's about the best spot to set it on for small PvP fights, because it gives you the time to dodge and come back in when you get a chance, instead of standing there winding up all year.

[Andiglo]

Yes. Melee's that use Full Power swings usually get hit with war. You have to go part power.

[Virindi Clown]

I was testing every way I could to figure out how to stop an attack that was already going. Sticky and charge together make it a real chore when you cannot actually just stop them. For example, my friend would start winding up a war, and I would already be running at him, so I would move sideways to stop myself. That keeps me from being hit because I can move where I want, but then your power meter is stuck red for almost 10 seconds, and you cannot attack until it changes back. If that isn't what happens, then the attack actually happens anyways, but I see myself running around, then when the attack goes off I suddenly appear in front of the person and swing at them, taking the war I just seemed to have dodged right in my face.

I don't understand why we are limited to this. Attacks lock up in all sorts of ways if you move. I am often stuck not able to move, attack, or use anything until I jump straight in the air, which usually takes 100+ stamina at that point. The stuck red bar thing is the same thing.

Why can't we just move freely? People god mode elixirs, and that seems cheap when you look at all the restrictions you have with other actions and movement. But it makes sense to be able to run around and drink something, just like it makes sense to be able to run around and then attack again after you were running in to attack and then move out of the way.

Why not change it so that there is an animation for when you are running and drink or use something? That makes perfect sense. If we could change weapons without stopping in a fight, or strafe and shoot arrows, what reasoning would there be to actually say that is wrong? Certain things, maybe healing kits or a certain few spells, should probably be limited since they might be unfair or should require concentration (you don't exactly run around mending your own wounds lol), but otherwise, what is wrong with unrestricted movement? That's how every video game works, but in AC half the stuff makes you just stand around.