Tell us what you think of the March Letter to the Players [Archive]

DarkLegend

03-02-2004, 08:07 PM

Ok..

I'm about sick of this game as of late..ban me or not, I don't [care]..

Ok, As stated above, and i'll give all you little sword newbs a ss if you shall need...gimme your email addy and you can see it....I sword character ALREADY crits me for 140 atleast, and have a few times for 175 through BANED armor.

Now, you can debuff my armor? Thats just plain out stupid.....

If thats not bad enough, and they can ABOUT 1 hit me, and i'm not going to be able to heal with stam to health....my Health VII is only gonna give me AT MOST 100 health....they hit me again for double that.....

I'm dead, mages are dead..

However, if thats STILL not bad enough, it takes ALL The skill out of casting, and making it impossible for a mage to kill anything...Bolts are VERY easy to dodge, if, and only if you know they are coming...

You're not putting ANY skill in this, 3rd party apps simply convert the spell names from "Zojak " to "Bludge War"....we can just edit the programs to tell us Arc / Bolt and know how to dodge...making it IMPOSSIBLE for a mage to do [anything]..

Ok....We still aren't that bad, I don't guess, but lets give melee's a bit more, lets get them some better weapons and hell, why don't we just add a spell to nerf all mage buffs? That seems practicle enough saying any lvl 200 melee, can pwn a lvl 200 mage if the melee has any clue on what to do.....i've seen it done to many times before....

Mages are going to [do horribly], they will only be able to support and simply support melee's.

Why don't we just do away with buffs, and lets up the gd price of this game by about 20 $ more a month? Lets add a little more lag, and guess what u got? HELL.

This is what this game is turning into. I'm not going to get in a argument vs melee's and mages, although I know swords are WAY to powerfull vs any other melee, and not to mention high lvl melee's can own a mage easily if the melee is smart, reads his spell words, and just full swings, hell he can't heal werf [anything]....

AzulDrakkon

03-02-2004, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by Poozer
You also removed the quick recovery stam/health 1?

People used that, PKs and white dots alike while hunting. What was the point?

ha, exploit BE GONE!

Saratoga

03-02-2004, 08:08 PM

Wow thanks for ruining PK more than it already is. You totally just nerfed mages. (no).

How do you expect mages to ever get a kill?

Melees know how to dodge each type of war. I can't get my health back quickly enough to help. And worst of all, I'm going to be killed in one hit by swordsman/other melees depending on how you change their damage.

With your moronic idea of luring working on people's armor, how do you expect me to survive?

Way to think this one through.

Saratoga

03-02-2004, 08:09 PM

Azul, how is that an exploit? It's in the game and was widely used by everyone to gain back health quickly.

sylphia

03-02-2004, 08:09 PM

Well the treasure portion has vindicated the stance I have taken all along. Thank you Ibn.

Now about the transfer changes. This is something you REALLY shoudl have asked us about before tossing it in as a given. I can agree with the transfers that give HP; I rely on them alot in PvM, but I know they give mages a huge advantage in PvP; I can live with those. But the ones that give mana. Please DO NOT put caps on the transfer amount. Many of us rely on that for buffing. It is currently possible to use life mastery spells or wands to allow our toons to cast the level one transfers (and it has been stated by Turbine before that this is intended and perfectly ok). For melees who cant afford life magic due to its exorbitant cost, this is the only practical way to buff your toon. Limiting the transfer rate of mana SEVERELY cripples these toons. The system as is already provides an advantage of life-trained toons over untrained, in that they have acces to higher lvl transfers and the vulns and pros that come with life itself. If you change this dynamic, you are goignt o make life alot more difficult when it comes to buffing, when you have professed many times you want to EASE the pain of it.

Make the necessary change to transfers, but leave the H2M and S2M alone PLEASE. If it is simply something that cant be seperated in current tech, then postpone this change until you add in MANA HEALING KITS that are reasonably easy to acquire and effective as a substitute. A melee should not have to train life magic just to be able to buff himself in a reasonable amount of time. A life wand and mana conv should be more than adequate. It comes with its own limitations; no need to make it worse.

Fires

03-02-2004, 08:10 PM

i stronhly dislike what u did with the armor debuffing thing. im mean melees hit me with fully tinkered armor al 420+ for 120+ with crits.. with inepted weapon its 80+ when they inept well that damage goes higher than when its buffed even with an inepted weapon. IMO ur over powering melees. just max out a melee and ur now an uber pk

and the s2h 1 thing

everyone used that.
pks used it most. with out it i highly doubt there will be much mage pk anymore on the white servers

HeXt

03-02-2004, 08:10 PM

Woohoo this sounds exciting

Mistikal

03-02-2004, 08:10 PM

The changes to converting attributes is by far the biggest changes.

Stam to health is an emergency spell that allowed you to live or not in an *emergency*

The spell still made you recover in normal ways, but at least it allowed you to have an emergency route when needed.

I can see where the pvp scene is going to go sideways with the future of the dynamics.

You have done absolutely nothing to help return the red scene on white servers as *looting* is the # 1 reason people do not go red.

Debuff armor? big deal, people can do that pink.

If infact you make that dynamic related to *magic D* you have just made maxed resistance people basically immune.

Silifi Of Death

03-02-2004, 08:12 PM

...What are you talking about? When was the last time you PKed? I've seen a lvl 80 mage kill a lvl 126 swordsman without even draining. It takes skill these days for a melee to bring down a mage. IMO, good changes, except that we need more balancing on the Archer/Melees, but it seems you're already looking into that.

As for the loot, GIVE ME MY PEAS BACK.

Or 20k loot daggers and katars..

Poozer

03-02-2004, 08:12 PM

lol, its not an exploit, they said it was unbalanced.

How is it unbalanced if everyone in the game uses it and enjoys it? Mages are gonna die a hell of a lot more when they hit stam/health and get 50hp.

sandman

03-02-2004, 08:12 PM

I understand the difficulty map for the mainland. I just wish there was a corresponding map for ML. I can realistically handle mobs up to level 95 with my own buffs. I'd like to know what area these mobs would be likely to be found in on the mainland.

Saratoga

03-02-2004, 08:14 PM

I hate you Turbine. You guys ruin everything good about the game.

Chrystania

03-02-2004, 08:17 PM

I thought one of the reasons sing trove loot was the best was because there was very little reason to have lockpick trained. Now you are taking away that reason again. How are you going to ensure that lockpick remains a viable skill to have?

Lonsgard

03-02-2004, 08:19 PM

About the loot changes (as you state they will be, not how they are right now)

1) Singularity Keys should have the highest loot profile. Singularity Keys have always had the highest loot profile, and as such are stockpiled as currency. While I only have one or two singularity keys, there are many players who have tons, and if they no longer correspond to the best loot, they will be worthless.

Lower level players who get sing keys aren't running to Singularity Troves and then getting frustrated that they can't use the loot, but rather, the save them and trade for appropriate loot.

An MMO needs a reasonably stable economy, which needs one item of high and constant value. You could create a new key that corresponds to the highest loot profile - but that would anger a LOT of people who once had many sings. You could also change sing keys to drop at harder levels only (and keep them at the highest loot profile), but that would make it harder for lower level players to gain wealth in order to trade - since you can't trade low level weapons for higher level ones. So it seems best to leave sing keys as they are, the highest loot profile.

2) When a player is hunting at the level 40-60 level, they aren't looking for equipment for the 40-60 level, they already have that. They want equipment that they can use later, say 60-80, or 80-100. And since at roughly levels 50-60, they will already be using 325 / 290 wield weapons, they want the same weapons that they will be using at level 126. At those 'mid' levels, anything short of a 325 / 290 wield weapon is useless.

Summary: Make Singularity Keys the HIGHEST loot profile

Silifi Of Death

03-02-2004, 08:19 PM

PK was unbalanced with mages at the top. It's been rebalanced and NOW the mages complain because they have to deal with what I've been dealing with for a year.

Get used to it. Maybe My Axer can finally do something in a PK battle.

Parkstool

03-02-2004, 08:21 PM

Wow way to ruin PVP turbine

S2h is fine where it is making it give 50 back is not very smart.

and the armor debuffing.. ok thats (a bad idea)

Saratoga

03-02-2004, 08:21 PM

Maybe you just [don't play that good].. I could kill most of the best mages on a level 90 sword character with aegis and a ward suit.

Ibn

03-02-2004, 08:22 PM

Originally posted by DraconisUmbra
Hmmm would have been nice to see some of that stuff before the last patch.

You're referring to the treasure system details? Yes, absolutely, that was my mistake in not presenting it properly prior to the February event.

Astral_Dominae

03-02-2004, 08:22 PM

Beginning in March, Item Enchantment armor buffs or debuffs cast upon a player who is not wielding a shield will redirect to whatever armor is worn on that player’s chest

did you read that?

it only affects the CHEST

Skir

03-02-2004, 08:22 PM

What is this?

"Many types of Olthoi had been given loot well above their target level. This was good for players who just wanted to loot a lot of peas easily, but was annoying for the players who were intended to fight these Olthoi. These low-level players tended to get weapons and items as loot that they wouldn’t be able to use for some time."

HELLO TURBINE.

SHOW ME ONE PERSON WHO EVER COMPLAINED ABOUT BEING ABLE TO GET AN ITEM OR A PIECE OF ARMOR THAT WAS REALLY NICE BUT THAT THEY COULDNT USE FOR ANOTHER 10 LEVELS. NOONE COMPLAINED. WE ALL SIMPLY STORED IT AWAY UNTIL WE COULD USE IT, OR TRADED IT IN THE JUST-FINE-AS-IT-WAS PLAYER ECONOMY FOR SOMETHING WE COULD USE.

And changing the Health to mana limits?

WOOHOOO!!!! THANK YOU TURBINE FOR FORCING ME TO BE A BUFFBABY FOR ANOTHER 30 LEVELS.

Now I cannot self-buff unless I have life magic as well.

I was planning on getting that at 105. I use Ulgrim's Stein to cast S2M 1, and I buffed that way.

Now I cant.

Bring back the original devs.. you new guys are ruining the entire game. It was so much better 3.5 years ago when I started, and its [not so good] now.

Parkstool

03-02-2004, 08:23 PM

"PK was unbalanced with mages at the top"

Not true. Its really close to equal where it is now.

Any skilled melee can take down a mage.

Ibn

03-02-2004, 08:23 PM

Originally posted by jaclin
Looks like you guys are really listening to the fans IBN... and thanks for that! I really like the idea new quest dynamics. Diversity is a good thing so keep us guessing and finding new ideas. Though I don't know how you will let us "fail" the quest if we have to leave the fellowship.

Well, these quests are not tied to you, the are only tied to the fellowship. So if you leave a fellowship that is involved in the quest, in general you could immediately form a new fellowship and start it again.

Binky

03-02-2004, 08:23 PM

Honestly, while your "intentions" with the changes are generally in the right direction (I like your future plans MUCH better than next months plans) the actual changes are horrible.

1) As stated above a melee with a bl'ed weopon hitting on debuffed armor will hit harder than a non bl'ed weopon on non debuffed armor. So a swordsman hitting for 170+ on crits just went into the 250+ on crits range (aka ALOT of one hit kills are going to happen).

2) Stam to Health changes. Going directly with the above problem the melee will now be swinging faster even at full power than a mage can cast heal self VII (which does around 100 hp of healing while the melee will hit for more than that). This was an emergency spell. You couldn't abuse it as you had to refill your stamina to make it effective (so you couldnt just spam cast it to stay alive etc). In the time it takes for a melee to swing on you at full power three times (with the new changes this will probably be the MAXIMUM ammount of swings necessary to kill anyone) you can cast Stamina to Health VII ONCE and MAYBE get in that second Heal spell. Aka ... Instead of balancing melee to mages you are just about to way overpower them.

As for the complaint that a melee wont be able to get an Armor debuff on someone that's just garbage. Any skilled player can just dodge wars, and since I'm SURE this debuff wont be dispellable just like BL on a weeping, the melee can just stand back casting it over and over and over until lands. Then commence the SERIOUS beatdown.

Silifi Of Death

03-02-2004, 08:24 PM

Well, It's really more of an Archer advantage, Archers usually have much better potential with Magic than most non-grief melee temps.

Ibn

03-02-2004, 08:24 PM

Originally posted by Ling Mei
I'm sure it will be asked, so I'll ask it first. You don't specifically say in the LttP if the Armor Debuffs will be affected by your opponent's Magic Defense, i.e. if my Item is 300 and my opponent's Magic Defense is 360, they "should" resist the Armor Debuff, correct?

I assume so, because you state they are "Similar" to shields, but I'm sure the people who PK would want this clarified for them :)

That is correct, your chance to succeed in the debuff will be your Item Magic skill vs. your opponent's Magic Defense.

memphocat

03-02-2004, 08:25 PM

Turbine you have single-handedly ripped to shreds everything that made Asheron's Call on a higher level than any other MMORPG out there.

There was a time when this game was nearly perfect. That time has long since passed. The deterioration has come in leaps and bounds.

It saddens me to see Asheron's Call in its current state.

Poozer

03-02-2004, 08:25 PM

The only thing unbalanced about PK currently was melee weapons like dagger/staff/spear, and missile weapons, which are a joke because they are so easy to dodge.

Lokania

03-02-2004, 08:25 PM

I don't know to express my reaction to how this was addressed in the LttP. Disgusted? Yes. Frustrated? Yes. Angry? Yes.

You are telling us that the one area on that map where we, those of us who are 100+ in skill or level, can hunt for uber loot is VoD? That is the only white area I see. I am not sure about the other 500 people who posted on the thread complaining about the loot distribution but I for one thought our complaints would get a little consideration. Foolish me.

I will probably brood on this tonight and have a lot more to say tomorrow about what I think of it.

AzulDrakkon

03-02-2004, 08:26 PM

Originally posted by Saratoga
Azul, how is that an exploit? It's in the game and was widely used by everyone to gain back health quickly.

Use a 5 then...I'm tired of fighting level 200s who with one click are instantly fully healed. on a high level mage this easily gave them 250+ health...exploit.

Ibn

03-02-2004, 08:28 PM

Originally posted by sylphia
Make the necessary change to transfers, but leave the H2M and S2M alone PLEASE. If it is simply something that cant be seperated in current tech, then postpone this change until you add in MANA HEALING KITS that are reasonably easy to acquire and effective as a substitute. A melee should not have to train life magic just to be able to buff himself in a reasonable amount of time. A life wand and mana conv should be more than adequate. It comes with its own limitations; no need to make it worse.

Something that should be kept in mind -- if you cast stam to mana I in March and only get 45, it only took away 50. If you're buffing -- just cast it again.

Dargo

03-02-2004, 08:28 PM

Ok, the transfer spell changes. I'm not sure what you are intending, but you have just about made it mandatory for someone to train life magic now. I have an Axer that has both creature and Item magic trained. I use Health to Mana 1 so that I can buff after casting a Life mastery on myself. Now you are telling me I can only get up to 50 mana back every time I do this.

I'm sure I'll hear all the things about how I shouldn't have been able to do it at all, yeah, yeah. Sure, there is the casting stien, but I need a HP to Mana spell so I can heal. Also, others in this situation often need the Focusing stone to get that little bit extra spell skill to cast VII's in the first place.

At the very least, can the X to Mana spells be left alone?

If you must do this, please consider something for those of us who do not wish to train life magic. It has often been a joke that everyone is a mage, it just depends on if you train war, bow or a melee weapon, this change could make that a lot closer to reality.

Alissa

03-02-2004, 08:28 PM

Another month to sit out and wait for your loot changes, hopefully they will have the desired results.

I tend to agree though Inever heard people complaining about your looting prior to the Feb patch. >just shakes head<

Now your changing the drain/regain spells again, did the ranges change also or is there a stealth thing there lurking?

I think your going to have many of your PK folks up in arms with those changes and wonder really what is going on up there in Mass and if the cold weather did not freeze some brain stems.

Vlad Morbius

03-02-2004, 08:29 PM

Ok if i'm looking at this map correctly, you have just confined the majority of players (100) plus to an area of about 1/100th of the world which will contain Uber loot! What you mean is VOD, which normally cannot be solo'ed is the only area which will contain the quality of loot we expect. So not only have nerfed loot on creatures you're planning to nerf chests, and compensate us by giving us mana stones and the right peas?
You obviously have not listened to the players and are not doing what we are asking you too do and that was fix your mistake but instead plan to carry out further changes and even take longer doing so?
In case you are not aware of this let me point it out while it's still a fresh thread. The majority do the new quests at the start of patch then go about the business of hunting and looting until the next patch comes along. You have taken away a much needed fun part of this game and I will be among the many not waiting to see how badly you can fubar AC. It has become painfully obvious that you people don't play this game, No one who loves AC would do this to the game!
You've learned nothing from your customers and it will be reflected in your bottom line in the next few months!

anna_x

03-02-2004, 08:29 PM

These proposed changes are a bad idea, in every way imaginable.

First, lets start with armor debuffs. Pvp for the most part on DT has become mass group fights, it is just the way it is, with many people running around all over the place. To BL every weapon is just impossible, I am a melee and I for one carry extra weepings for the case of being Bled. I hit extremely hard on buffed armor, and if someone is dumb enough not to bane, then they die unbelievable fast. Now my mage friend can drop a lure on their chest, and if I hit there they are going to be hurting. This is a bad fix, make other melee weapons better, but weepings and AR and things like this were put in because everyone always baned and melees did awful damage. Now we hit just fine and your providing us a nother boost? Balance the rest of the melee weapons but dont make it a joke.
Also, this fix doesnt hurt melees at all. I always pvp in an aegis, which is unenchantable, so all spells meant to weaken my armor will be directed to my unenchantable shield. This is by no means fair.

Arcs were put in because of the inability to hit people with war spells. Yes for the first month or so it was awful on melees, but you know what, we adated. Part of the skill of pvp is knowing how to mix up your arcs and bolts. Both are easy to dodge, but the difficulty arises when you dont know whats coming. Just like a hitter in baseball, they can hit a fastball or curve if they know it is coming, the skill of the pitcher is mixing up his pitches.

Finally the stam to health changes. THIS IS INSANELY STUPID. Ok, its a level one spell, you know what. WHO CARES!!!! A lvl 7 war does usually between 150-250 with a weeping wand wear as a maximum heal is like 150 points if your lucky. This is a problem, even if i hit my heal before the second war hits, i may die anyway, and since i cant really move when i cast, i cant dodge and heal at the same time. Please please please listen to Darktiders on this one, this patch will destroy one server.

Ibn

03-02-2004, 08:30 PM

Originally posted by sandman
I understand the difficulty map for the mainland. I just wish there was a corresponding map for ML. I can realistically handle mobs up to level 95 with my own buffs. I'd like to know what area these mobs would be likely to be found in on the mainland.

We expect to adjust ML in the future as it's currently not in line at ALL with the monster rebalancing. When we do that, I expect that we'd be able to provide a map like you describe.

Silifi Of Death

03-02-2004, 08:31 PM

Mages were way to powerful, again, lvl 80 mages killing lvl 126 swords? They go through all armor, and if the melee dodges you just have to BL, and then drain once they start attacking.

Just remember, a Melee can't fight while he's dodging, so if he's dodging those wars he isn't gonna hit you. If you cast Blood Loather and Swift Killer 7 (What's it called?) he'll be hitting for very small amounts, and slow enough for you to drain.

Xantcha

03-02-2004, 08:32 PM

I'm really trying not to overreact here, but I feel these are the worst pk-related changes ever proposed in the history of AC. Both the arc/bolt issue and s2h 1 are large parts of the skill inherent in mages. Just as a baseball pitcher is most effective by mixing up his pitches, the mage pk mixes up arcs and bolts and by doing so lands a much larger percentage of them as well as catching his opponent off guard. As it is most mage v melee 1v1 fights are only won by the mage if he is able to land an arc followed by a bolt. These changes totally get rid of those aspects of pk combat. In addition, the s2h change eliminates much of the excitement and fast-paced nature of pk combat, and makes Darktide even *more* about numbers and groups. Is this really what you, the devs, want for the game? I'm not overly concerned about the armor debuffing as that's just a balance issue that can be revised if incorrect, but by directly reducing skill-based abilities of mages you directly reduce the skill and fun involved in pk. I urge you, if at all possible, to not implement the s2h and arc/bolt changes this patch so that you can further study their ramifications on what, apparently by accident, many of us think is the best pvp game currently available. I assure you far fewer people will play if that no longer is the case.

Sangria

03-02-2004, 08:33 PM

There was a lot of information there. I dont know yet if I will like or hate the changes - or be totally indifferent.

I think most of this effects the PvP and dont really pertain to me.

As for sing keys? I have a bunch of those and if they become worthless... oh well. I imagine I will live to see what the next economy measure is. Plats I imagine.

I do miss picking up all those peas - they were a mages best friend.

Oh, on the armor buff and de-buff. How will buffing someone elses armor work?

If my friend is not holding a shield will I simply end up buffing his breast plate or coat? If so - that wont be much help to me ever. Can you explin the buffing part better for me?

Ibn

03-02-2004, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by Alissa
Now your changing the drain/regain spells again, did the ranges change also or is there a stealth thing there lurking?

We didn't touch the drain spells.

Dargo

03-02-2004, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by Ibn
Something that should be kept in mind -- if you cast stam to mana I in March and only get 45, it only took away 50. If you're buffing -- just cast it again.

Just cast it again? Ibn do you actually play and go through a buffing session? I cast attribute buffs, skill buffs, and then weapon buffs, I rarely, if ever cast imps/banes. I find this to be about as low magic as I dare to be able to go out and have fun (as far as self cast magic anyhow). I probably have to cycle mana about, I dunno, 6-8 times (wild guess, could be more, maybe less), so now I'll have 6-8 more spells cast in each buff session.

Don't suppose you could move X to mana spells under the Mana Conversion skill could you?

Ibn

03-02-2004, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by Vlad Morbius
Ok if i'm looking at this map correctly, you have just confined the majority of players (100) plus to an area of about 1/100th of the world which will contain Uber loot!

Note that a character who is 110, for example, would fall both the 80+ and then 100+ categories.

Ibn

03-02-2004, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by Dargo
Just cast it again? Ibn do you actually play and go through a buffing session? I cast attribute buffs, skill buffs, and then weapon buffs, I rarely, if ever cast imps/banes. I find this to be about as low magic as I dare to be able to go out and have fun (as far as self cast magic anyhow). I probably have to cycle mana about, I dunno, 6-8 times (wild guess, could be more, maybe less), so now I'll have 6-8 more spells cast in each buff session.

We have some major improvements to the buffing process in the works.

Saratoga

03-02-2004, 08:36 PM

I'm still in awe at how much stupid this is. I'm gunna sell my acct I think.. Look me up on Ebay.

Silifi Of Death

03-02-2004, 08:36 PM

the 100+ area is just VoD...

Dargo

03-02-2004, 08:38 PM

Originally posted by Ibn
We have some major improvements to the buffing process in the works.

OK, I guess I'll have to trust you. Don't suppose these improvements will happen at the same time you change the transfer spells will they?

How about 1 mana costing Self buffs? Sounds good to me. :)

Ranador

03-02-2004, 08:39 PM

The only thing keeping my account active since you borked up hunting for loot has been PK/PKL on my mage...

Mage's won't even stand a chance now, with vulns and buffed armor you can already get critically hit for 100 hp, with armor debuffs and sticky melee, mages are toast. They'll be killed before they can even finish their casting animations.

This patch is gonna be [bad].

Adagio

03-02-2004, 08:39 PM

Thank you guys for giving me a reason to QUIT AC. I feel that you guys are screwing up my favorite server DT and making us all want to quit cause you hate us as a whole.

1) Sword users own mages 75%of time now atleast due to wards and majors all over the place. They crit for 120+ and you hit them for 100 maybe and the resist you all the time with aegis. Aslo the can use healing kits to heal from 2 life to 300 while a mage is now gimped cause of stam to health 1 being brought down and heal self 7 usually only heals you for 90 points of damage on average.

2) Nerfing of everything that makes this game reasonable. I haven't hunted for loot 1 day since patch since all that I found on anything was 5k items. now I find new ua's daggers bows and x bows with higher than usual attacks which tells me that all the ua's i just imbued and are using are out of date once more and that if I want to keep up I have use what salvage i have left to try to imbue somethign better till you guys nerf ac again.

I feel that this game is ruined and I will not pay for any of my accounts from now on and that is 3 to be exact and I believe my friends are going to quit also and the monarch will fall that we put together so you just killed 8 accounts atleast gone. thx and I feel like telling you guys all off but I will save that for later

Dushman

03-02-2004, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by Ibn
Note that a character who is 110, for example, would fall both the 80+ and then 100+ categories.

Yes but the quality of loot in the 80+ region is well ummmm lower :(

Azooln

03-02-2004, 08:40 PM

Azul if stam to hp 1 is an exploit so is gemming.

In other news:

I'm outright disguested with the recent changed made concerning PvP, how does this balance anything?

I know all the people on white servers are saying, "Hahaha i'm glad i don't pk look at those losers"

But honestly, do you expect melees and mages to be balanced? Right now is about as balanced as they are going to get.

If a melee could hit as hard as a mage (90-300) a pop, it would make it ludacris, seeing how a melee can hit about 5 times faster than a mage, and melees can also heal faster without as much of a chance of getting hit.

Just my opinion but i think that you're going to [annoy] alot of people off, whether or not they are PK's or PKL's.

-TIM BRIGGS

Pigroast

03-02-2004, 08:40 PM

My other two accounts run out the 10th and 13th, that letter really does not do anything to make me want to renew them.

If the devs really want to be honest, tell us exactly when the loot changes will be finished.........such as month and loot level addressed.

"Some of these issues will be resolved in this month; others are pending for April and later."

To be honest, it really sounds like the devs have not read any of those 41 pages of comments.

Lionhart

03-02-2004, 08:41 PM

congratulations on (ruining) up AC.

you just finnaly got the game back....and this is how u start??? no.

u'll be happy in 2 weeks when everyone on DT quits, everyone on the white servers quit, and this game goes bye bye

u just screwed up PvP in the WORST possable ways.

#1) EVERYONE uses stam 2 hp 1...even NPKS. its the only good way to heal. without it, PvP will never be the same.

#2) u just killed mages. not many even inept a melee weapon. but every melee will inept armor now.

you killed this game. have fun being broke.

hell...even AC2 might be better now.... :mad:

Genji-Glove

03-02-2004, 08:41 PM

Ibn, with the upcoming pvp changes, I think mages are going to get the shaft because all 3 changes that were in the lttp hurt mages.

Please please please!! Think about allowing mages to slide cast without movement disrupting their spells. I mean unlimited casting distance like we used to have. That way mages could atleast be able to hit other people ( which they wont be able to do with the upcoming changes to spell words of arcs and bolts ).

I say this hoping you could include something like this , this month.

I don't feel like playing for a full month when pvp is out of whack, Ive done that many times, including when hollow weapons were nerfed due to natural protections.

Gouru

03-02-2004, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by Skir
Now I cannot self-buff unless I have life magic as well.

I was planning on getting that at 105. I use Ulgrim's Stein to cast S2M 1, and I buffed that way. Now I cant.

Ummmm...Ulgrim's Stein casts S2M IV, which is NOT changing at all. Not sure of your point.

Silifi Of Death

03-02-2004, 08:42 PM

...Is there even a DIFFERENCE in lvl 80/100 loot? You get 325 weapsin both, prolly just a little bit better in 100+. Somehow I doubt the loot in VoD will be any better than the 80+ area, there are only 6 lvls of loot anyway.

Tibow

03-02-2004, 08:42 PM

1st that's like 3-4 years I'm playing on dt and if u plan to do this I'll probably stop giving ya any $ coz :

1# I got a lvl 188 archer , a lvl 175 mage and a lvl 165 sword : guess what : my archer is a mule atm, archers are totally useless in pvp xcept if u fight a noob or if u fight someone without missile and u'r bowbugging him ( but with ur great tinkering patch every mage/archer/melee are training missile to use majors coz it's cheaper than melee ( skillcost)

==> are u planning to take care of bow bug or u prefer to nerf something else ?
==> are u planning to boost archer speed one day or u waiting a year ? someone with missile trained vs an archer with bow spec and maxed will shoot war ( if it's a mage ) faster than an archer will fire arrows , not mentionning hit the environnement hit the environnement hit the environnement hit the environnement hit the environnement hit the environnement hit the environnement hit the environnement hit the environnement hit the environnement hit the environnement hit the environnement
This was about archery ( class where nothing has been done since a year or more )

2# My melee lvl 165 , it's a 100 endu/str/focus spec res/sword
I got 382 hp , full wards and major str , nowadays I can alrdy tank like 3 wars or 2 wars + 2 streaks without much problems ( without trying to dodge ) , I hit as crit for 170+ in the runic helm ( trough banes) that means I'll hit for 300+ as crit if brittelmailed ( and as I alrdy said : I can tank up to 3 wars without much problems )
==> Do u Think it's fair ?
==> Do u think it's BALANCED ?
==> Do u realize ppl are alrdy having fellow with 6 Melee and 3 mages and noone can do a sh*t about it alrdy ? Imagine those 3 mages landing vulns + brittelmail +etc... ( In case u aren't aware , sword are hitting for 13-26 trough al 400+ armor (baned )while sticking , 6 melee hitting u = 78-156 dmg every sec or so ) So instead of killing someone in 5 sec they should kill him in 2 ?

3# My mage is 175 with 400 hp maxed res/war
==> U can't dodge melee if u'r in magic mode , xcept if he's lvl 20 ( btw everyone pking on dt is lvl 90-100+ when they are not in the 150-220 range ) so basically u don't evade, as I alrdy said I'm being critted for 170+ in head , which can be ok with the use of stam to h1 : IT S A WAY TO ALLOW PPL TO SURVIVE TO UNBALANCED THINGY , remove it = a mage will die w/e he's doing
==> Melees running around u are alrdy a pain to hit but now u want that they know what sort of war u are casting ? Basically U Don't want mage hitting others ?

4# Conclusion :

Ask around, if ppl play or come back to dt : it's because pvp system is one of the best coz it's preventing the 3 sec fight u can have in ac2/daoc/diablo etc... Stop nerfing that on focus on real problems
==>We have asked to fix Bow-bug ( even if it 's the only to kill someone with an archer nowadays )
==>We have asked to remove Housing barriers
==>We have asked to reduce lag
==>We have asked to rebalance melee ( to reduce power so don't overpower 'em more )

It's maybe time to take care of ur customers instead of doing retarded nerf, I though the turbine takeover would be good, from day to day it's looking like it's worse and worse

Maybe time to sell back to Microsoft ( they weren't doing much but at least they weren't dumb )
I won't pay 3 more dollars to play something retarded

anna_x

03-02-2004, 08:43 PM

I would like to point out how many first time posters are appearing on this board, many of whom are from DT.
This should tell you how strongly we feel to these proposed PVP changes. I predict you will lose at least 50% of the accounts from DT if you institute these, and it will probably reach upwards of 75- 80%
PLEASE
PLEASE
PLEASE
Stop this insanity before you ruin the best PVP MMORPG on the market. There is a reason that many of us have come back, even after we swore we wouldnt, and its because AC PVP is the most fun out there. These changes will destroy that.

Lokania

03-02-2004, 08:44 PM

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Vlad Morbius
Ok if i'm looking at this map correctly, you have just confined the majority of players (100) plus to an area of about 1/100th of the world which will contain Uber loot!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note that a character who is 110, for example, would fall both the 80+ and then 100+ categories

So, Ibn, are you saying there will be a chance of finding uber loot in the 80+ areas, too? I know I can hunt anywhere I want, I can hunt in the Hebian-To mossie fort if I want. You stated the loot would be divided into levels along the lines of the map. 100+ was uber loot.

The question in a nutshell was... are you saying there will be a chance of finding uber loot in the 80+ areas, too?

Shadow of Lokania
Morningthaw

Gouru

03-02-2004, 08:47 PM

Originally posted by Ibn
Something that should be kept in mind -- if you cast stam to mana I in March and only get 45, it only took away 50. If you're buffing -- just cast it again.

True, but that would burn more mana. The S2M/Revit cycle is based on gaining back more mana than you burn with your revits. I do hope you are looking at the ability for young mages (lvl 30 or so) to use the s2m/revit cycle that is the bread and butter of mage life. Or let us know that that is no longer an option...

Aztek

03-02-2004, 08:47 PM

So if the Armor debuff goes to the chest what happens if your wearing:

A robe?

Amuli top?

Haulberk?

Coat of some type?

Imguessing it impacts the piece therefore All the above items are going to be worthless as you would have be insane to wear one.

Lionhart

03-02-2004, 08:49 PM

not only are u messing up PvP in the WORST way, but screwing up the loot to??

i dont think i wanna pay 3$ more for this

and i think everyone else that has ever been even DECENT at PvP, or hunts for loot alot, will agree

LugianWarlord

03-02-2004, 08:49 PM

If you're going to allow debuffing (or even buffing) of another person's armor - I suggest an alternate method.

A successful ID'ing of an individual lists their level, stats, monarchy, etc...

I suggest a successful ID also gives a listing of the armor the person is wearing, with selectable icons which can be targetted for item spells - either positive or negative.

This would give people another reason to train Deception, to help prevent against possible assessments... and of course Assess Person would assist against this defense.

(Yes, I know, this gives Aluvians and unfair advantage in PK)

Silifi Of Death

03-02-2004, 08:50 PM

Good Idea Lugian.

Zeds

03-02-2004, 08:50 PM

I just read it

Nothing new

just BS and the general notion that we dont have sense enought to try to kill other critters to see what they are dropping

insulting

NO I am not going to get used to it or accept it , wave bye bye to the accounts I have that were waiting for you to fix your ERROR

you do not listen and are going to reap the harvest

hunting is not fun now , the loot is not right for the level of critters

lets repeat that for the apparently very slow Turbine folks , The LOOT is not right for the level of the creature

drop me a email when you guys pull your collective heads out of your arses.
If I am feeling generous , I will think about giving you a chance to convince me to resubscribe

Sadly , I must conclude that MicroSoft was the Good influence in the past workings of the game instead of the other way around as we had thought

Drakul

03-02-2004, 08:51 PM

It looks like it TIME TO LEAVE. Since you are making this game like Everquest. I tried it did not like it. SO i guess this is your only way to make use group hunt and quest. I AM SORRY THAT YOU ARE TURNING THIS GAME INTO EVERQUEST.

darkfire

03-02-2004, 08:51 PM

How could you screw up so bad? By the next few patches there wont even be PvP.

Good job.

sylphia

03-02-2004, 08:51 PM

Originally posted by Ibn
Something that should be kept in mind -- if you cast stam to mana I in March and only get 45, it only took away 50. If you're buffing -- just cast it again.

Ibn, I amaware of that dynamic...and it will also cost me 10 mana to cast that spell again--which will be subtracted from my gain. It will cost me more and take longer to buff than it did already.

With my current stamina of 250, I receive 94 mana, minus 10 for casting = 84 mana each time I cast it. Under the new system, I would get 45 mana, minus the 10 for casting = 35 per cast. in order to make as much mana as the old way, I have to cast the same spell 2-3 times, risking fizzles (and more lost mana) each time, as well as taking more physical time to cast due to more spells being cast. In theory, I COULD castthis spell 5 times and net a total of 175 useable mana, which is a good thing. But thats 4 more spells I have to cast per mana cycle--each one risking fizzles due to very low life magic skill.

I have created a template that allows me to have speced sword and melee, trained item, trained creature, speced arcane, trained healing, and I even sprung for mana conv to help offset the cost of buffing a bit. I chose this OVER life magic, because rending weapons give me equivalent to vulns, and items can provide me with all of the pros I need up to lvl 6 (especially since dual spells came out). I am almost to the point where creatur isnt needed either. That means that the ONLY thing life has left for me is making mana, and at 12 skill credits thats just not worth it. very soon, my melee was going to be completely independant of all magic skills except item; the way a melee SHOULD be. This change will make life necessary just for buffing--or rather for buffing in a reasonable amount of time.

I can see the need for the HP changes, like I said; they DO offer too much power for their level. When a lvl 1 S2H can heal me about as much as a lvl 6 Heal spell, thats just broken. But the mana part doesnt hurt game balance, even in PvP. If it simply cant be seperated, then give us the mana kits we have been asking for years to get. It would be a univeral boon to all players who have healing and would help decrease the bufftimes. It would certainly prevent myHAVING to train life just for it mana making properties; and thats all it would really change on my toon at this point.

Genji-Glove

03-02-2004, 08:52 PM

"If you're going to allow debuffing (or even buffing) of another person's armor - I suggest an alternate method.

A successful ID'ing of an individual lists their level, stats, monarchy, etc...

I suggest a successful ID also gives a listing of the armor the person is wearing, with selectable icons which can be targetted for item spells - either positive or negative.

This would give people another reason to train Deception, to help prevent against possible assessments... and of course Assess Person would assist against this defense.

(Yes, I know, this gives Aluvians and unfair advantage in PK)"

Good idea

Saratoga

03-02-2004, 08:52 PM

You don't realize how hard this is for me not to get banned right now.

Tyrion

03-02-2004, 08:53 PM

I like all the changes but one.

Armour debuffing.

This is some kind of early april fools joke right?

My sword melee will be able to kill any mage in 2 or 3 swings. I'd like some competition left please.

lazy-dt

03-02-2004, 08:54 PM

If your a lvl 80 mage and kill a 126+ melee, the only real answer is the melee just plain sucks.
"1) As stated above a melee with a bl'ed weopon hitting on debuffed armor will hit harder than a non bl'ed weopon on non debuffed armor. So a swordsman hitting for 170+ on crits just went into the 250+ on crits range (aka ALOT of one hit kills are going to happen)."
that is great

Ryori

03-02-2004, 08:55 PM

Well, I will start off by saying thanks for giving us lots of detail on the treasure this time. And thanks for the statement about not describing it well, IBN. Communication has always been a big minus for Turbine in my opinion and while it can be time consuming it can be the cheapest thing to do sometimes.

When I study the treasure changes more, I'll make my suggestions.

I can't comment on the PK issues as I do not PK or PKL with any regularity. Apparently I am out of the loop as I didn't realize swords caught up with mages. If that is the case, then the armor debuffs don't make a lot of sense. But seems like if the melee is that close the mage should be able to tag him... like I said, I'm out of the loop so I'll shut up here.

Mixed feelings on the low level XtY spells. What would typical math be here? 50% of 300 is 150; 75% of that is 112 at loss of 150 stam. New way would be loss of 55 stam for 50 mana. So 165 stam would be 150 mana? Right ?? so 2 extra button presses for 38 more mana if I read it right. Seems ok if you're using level 1 spells as a freebie. Seems like it would help a true newbie out more as they won't have 300 stam - more like 100 so instead of 50 giving 37 it will be 50 giving 45 to them.

Side Note: I will agree that I never liked how life was needed to resupply your mana pools with spells. Life was too intermixed I thought with the casting process.

Side Note #2: There are mana elixers. I use them for emergencies on the mages... not a perfect solution, but again, if the problem is that a non-credit costing spell gets nerfed, then sorry... no issues. And YES... I use it too... my trade toon restocks his mana that way.

Zeniv

03-02-2004, 08:55 PM

(worst) CHANGES YOU COULD EVER MAKE TO PVP.

Silifi Of Death

03-02-2004, 08:55 PM

It's a good idea, he's saying it's unbalanced, and giving some kind of solution that works for more people. That's an advantage for mages anyway. No reason to start getting mad over an online computer game..

Azooln

03-02-2004, 08:56 PM

Although i do play both FF and DT...oh no here it comes.... I agree that DT has gotten SHAFTED for everything, and that the game favors "o.O's" over r337 p\/\/3|?'s such as myself...

Please stop making this game terrible.

BRING BACK GOD MODE!!!

KvasDT

03-02-2004, 08:58 PM

Ibn, why not just get rid of all Darktide? seems like that's what turbine wants... this is pathetic, please let us know shortly if these armor defuffing/item magic/stam to hp changes will be canceled so I know if I should cancel my AC subscriptions this week.

Genji-Glove

03-02-2004, 08:59 PM

just cancel and you can still play till it expires

Hazok

03-02-2004, 09:02 PM

Please do not implement these things, all of them ruin pk completely. Pmed you Ibn.

Meri

03-02-2004, 09:06 PM

Goodness...

Lots of unhappy people...

:)

Mostly about the armor debuffs, it appears. I dunno... but I doubt that my item magic skill is enough to do a lot of harm to a mage... since I can barely debuff another melee's shield. ;)

On the other hand... if Kela (my non-macro "pocket mage", aka my best friend both in- and out- of game) starts debuffing for me again... I might just do a little more PKL. ;)

/e sharpens her sword

Tibow

03-02-2004, 09:07 PM

ok Ibn , as u aren't replying , I'll probably quit , so here's some blance u can do in teh next patches ( I won't care a lot as I won't be playing ) :

1# make sword free to train and to spec
2# get ride of fast cast : easy solution : just set a spell timer on war spellz like 10-15 sec with a good msg like : "You have already casted a war spell , wait 7 sec to cast another one !"
3# allow ppl to hilt weeping sword so they'll triple strike with it
4# allow also ppl to imbue weeping swords ( with up to 4 imbues ( ar + cs + cb + a the rend of the sword )
5# add a 3rd arm on melee so they can wear 2 extra wards and another sword or another aegis
6# remove spinjump , if someone casted a war spell ( or any spell ) he can't jump at all for 2 minutes
7# Consider someone with less than 347 strengh can't wear heavy armor : so only leather and robes )

These tweaks should achieve ur way of "patching" the game

Solan

03-02-2004, 09:08 PM

Health to Mana I cost 10 mana to cast. net gain (without Mana C or if your luck is bad) 35.

ick.

Alissa

03-02-2004, 09:10 PM

Ibn,

I and apparently others now are questioning what thoughts are going on up there in Turbine land.

This rebalancing of almost many underlying systems that has worked rather well or that had been adapted to by many, if not all, of your playerbase are now being fundamentally changed.

Yet we are told to hold out until it gets better, its a work in progress, etc etc.

We are not unintelligent, however we are beginning to wonder what prompted all of this and just what we are waiting for.

Will it truly be better? Or will many of us be paying out money until April or later to see that we still can not play, or of we do play we have had to change the fundamental thing, how we enjoy the game, to fit this new vision?

Give us a bone, explain to us what prompted all of this, what this vision is and how it will be.

Give us an idea to look at and decide if it will be good or bad for us and the game.

As it is now it smacks of the AC2 release and all the changes that were made ( and still being made) and all of the heartache and bad feelings over it.

Show us a picture of the vision and maybe we will not be so distraught waiting for these changes.

If you can not give some words and ideas beyond the its a work in progress and wait it will knock your socks off (gotta love KK for that one) I think you are doing the intelligence of your customers a disservice one which will leave them only one way to show their frustration, taking their money elsewhere.

ts383

03-02-2004, 09:10 PM

Who are you talking to that said these changes would be a good idea? Transfer spell adjustment, I'll give you that one. Debuffing armor? Better idea, why not let melee's have Mage Rending that they can imbue with 100% success that just ignores all the armor a mage has. That way, when they whap you with their weeping sword, they only have to swing once. After all, its not fair to make them have to wait for their combat bar to charge all over again.

If these are the march changes, then in April War Magic should be 4 to train, and an additional 2 to spec, because all mages are going to need Melee D to compete.

In the beginning, mages were overpowered. Full-radar drains, etc...congrats, you've finally managed not to correct the problem, but swing the pendulum to the other extreme. You all are not very good game developers.

Hazok

03-02-2004, 09:10 PM

Ibn, you have to consider these posts....i have never seen this many bad things said, and they are all true, about PK, you are ruining it. Don't make me quit again please, reconsider leaving pk alone....you already put PKL in!!!!!

Hunter-of-Tears

03-02-2004, 09:11 PM

I dont understand it... is Turbine trying to shut darktide down??? Lets see, YEAH THIS BALANCES PK WOO!

hrm lets see

first off, lets add more damage to melees, YEAH

now lets let armor be debuffable! UBAR

next lets take away mages way of healing so melees can still heal for 250+ with a kit but mages cant use s2h! COOL

now lets let melees always know what type of spell mages r casting, thats sounds GREATTTTTTTTT

this is possibly the worst ideas u could ever think of, leave us dters alone, we like our pking

pacesetter

03-02-2004, 09:11 PM

once again pk love ( or hate as the case may be) is ruling dereth.

As for the xfer spells, you gonna take away the baddies drains like this too?? They hurt as much or more than ours, but now we are limited in our response spells.

When ya get hit with 2 or more lvl 7 drains, the drain health 1 is a lifesaver. 2 lvl 7 drains and a war can take 250 health right now! Drain health 1 can be cast 5 times in the time it takes a 7 to fire. Same with lvl 7 wars, they zap us for up to 180 hp. With no melee to counter attacks, and without a very quick response a mage is goin down.

can't these PK things be limited to PK's?? Why do we hafta die so PK's can hit something? and now from my PK side........WHAT???? no now the mage without the benefit of either melee or shield can get battered even better?? DUH! what are you thinking?? this is a skill based game. we hear this constantly. so why bust our chops cause the melees hit for less if we bane?? isn't that what banes are for?????

why don't you stop beating around the bush and hand us all a survival knife and sewing kit so we can give ourselves stitches on our death bed??

God, I wish I knew where this game was going before I spend more months and much more dollars only to finally get fed up enough to delete what is left of my accounts.

TimetoDie_WE

03-02-2004, 09:14 PM

[WHAT] DID U GUYS DO TO PVP???

DEBUFFING ARMOR???

MELEES ALREADY HIT FOR 170 on CRITS!!!! (410 armor with full banes)

And changing it so that you can see arcs and bolts? How the hell can a mage surprise a melee or an archer now?

I'm overall very sad about this letter :(

Solan

03-02-2004, 09:15 PM

Pacesetter, they are not touching the drains. just our transfers.

Hamilia

03-02-2004, 09:15 PM

Once these changes are implemented pvp is dead in this game. Why don't u guys listen to the people who actually have experience in pvp? the pvp server... it makes no sense that you would ruin the game for our whole server to appease the rest of them.

all in all, from darktide straight to you guys, we effing hate these changes. dont implement them PLEASE

Jin Saotome

03-02-2004, 09:17 PM

After reading about the buff/debuff Armor changes, and everyone's replies, I'm still confused.

Beginning in March, Item Enchantment armor buffs or debuffs cast upon a player who is not wielding a shield will redirect to whatever armor is worn on that player’s chest.

Eh? So we can debuff someone's chestplate, ok. What's the point?

This allows for several new options for players. NPK players can assist a friend with armor buffing, so long as their friend is not wielding a shield. However, we expect these changes will be most useful to PKs and PKLs, who can now debuff the armor of their opponents.

Huh? Wait, they can assist with buffing his chestplate only, or does this mean ALL armor he's wearing? Can I finally cast Impenatrability VI and have it cast on my 4-piece Yorio suit all at once?

What happens while I'm wearing my al 590, all unparr/Exc Coveant BP (and suit) the spell fails or my Cov armor gets debuffed? If it gets debuffed, can I actually buff my Covenant armor now?

HEEEELP!!!!

Drakul

03-02-2004, 09:17 PM

Here is turbine's contact info

Turbine Entertainment Software
60 Glacier Drive, Suite 4000
Westwood, MA 02090

PHONE: 781-407-4000
FAX: 781-329-5463

CALL THEM, FAX THEM, OR SEND A MAIL TO THEM

JEFFREY ANDERSON
President & CEO

CHRISTOPHER DYL
Vice President of Technology

JUDITH HOFFMAN
Executive Director of Product Development

MICHAEL HOGAN
Executive Director of Online Services

JESSICA MULLIGAN
Executive Producer

MARK POVER, CPA
Chief Financial Officer

CONTACT THESE PEOPLE SINCE THEY ARE THE ONES IN CHARGE

Ranador

03-02-2004, 09:17 PM

Expiration Date: 3/8/2004 11:45:04 PM
Time Remaining: 6 days 5 hours

You're not convincing me to re-subscribe

Drive

03-02-2004, 09:18 PM

Is this honestly how businesses are run today?

When you unveil your plans and the entire playbase is against it, is there no notion that what you are planning is not what the costumers want? Players complain about lack of material, but this is not what the majority mean. Quests, new items, this is all fun and great. Drastic changes in gameplay is not what players want.

The old saying, "The Costumer is Always Right," should truly be analyzed and taken into consideration. The last patch, and now this coming patch, have only received a negative response.

Work on the marketing, Turbine. This does not bode well for your beginnings apart from Microsoft.

DarkLegend

03-02-2004, 09:19 PM

Originally posted by Silifi Of Death
PK was unbalanced with mages at the top. It's been rebalanced and NOW the mages complain because they have to deal with what I've been dealing with for a year.

Get used to it. Maybe My Axer can finally do something in a PK battle.

Dude, you DO NOT GET IT.

Go vs a gd sword guy unbaned,

YOU
WILL
DIE

Simple as that....If i can inept armor, its not even worth baning, melee's will be able to 1 hit folks...wtf? You've been going against it this long, are you just to ****en stupid to relize that sword is by far the best melee skill,a nd I believe to be equal to mages?

I lvl 200 Melee will crit my AL 630 armor (buffed of course) for OVER 150 on a crit. 150, then a few quick hits of 50 - 75 and i'm dead. Not to mention they did that 150 in 1/3 of the f u c k e n time it takes me to cast a spell that they CAN, let me say that a bit more..

CAN
CAN
CAN
CAN
C
A
N

dodge. Can you dodge a melee swing? BETTER YET , can you get away from a mage?

Thanks you and please shut up....

Lionhart

03-02-2004, 09:19 PM

if this patch gets implimented as intensioned...

i WILL quit. as will MANY others. you will se..maybe 5 people logged in to DT at one time.

the new Pk arena on white servers will be useless, as will the weeping quests.

because...NOONE WILL PK ANYMORE

Alltu_Tru

03-02-2004, 09:19 PM

Drains were NOT changed, read it again....

as far as totaly nerfing mages?? ROFLMAO!!!! what a pathetic joke!!

show me a melee that has enough item magic to overcome a mages magic D without casting the spell 5 to 6 times (all the while trying hard not to get hit with the mages ***ITEM MAGIC DEBUFFS*** LOL, jeeze, that was REAL hard wasnt it ;)

and the transfer?? OH NO THE SKY IS FALLING!! :D ya, I got a melee without life magic, so what, casting stine is lvl 4, so I wont see a change ;)

and a mage casting s2h 1, will now have to cast s2h FOUR and get 180 health while only losing 200 stam ;) (wasnt that SO hard to figure out?)

also, a lvl 4 spell can be cast FASTER than a full power sword swing ;) (ya, thats right ONE full power swing)

EVERY single time there is a change or balancing attempt, the ones that got a slight nerf YELL AND SCREAM LIKE LITTLE BABIES :)

I'm betting I see just as many people logged into DT next month as I do this month ;)

Ibn

03-02-2004, 09:19 PM

Originally posted by Lokania
The question in a nutshell was... are you saying there will be a chance of finding uber loot in the 80+ areas, too?

Yup. Your chance will be slightly higher in 100+, but the 80+ loot can spawn all the same high-spells max-mod stuff that the 100+ loot can.

Emeritus

03-02-2004, 09:21 PM

once again you've decided to (aaa) over PK
due to being banned for use of "foul language" (aaa) will now be substituted for "foul language" and i think you can figure out what it means

Nice going Turbine!

Arcs have different words than bolts? so... you want to make it 99% easier for a melee to be hit by a mage? not to mention the nice little armor debuffs you've so greatfully decided to implement. Oh yeah. it was hard enough AS IS to kill a 'good' melee who knows how to dodge wars 1v1.

Probably another great idea coming from those who decided to make a new white server.

And whats this about “Loot Weapons” vs. “Quest Weapons” – Re-examining PK-oriented quest weapon suites to provide viable choices between the different types of weaponry

Just taking a guess at it... judging by Turbines history of (aaa)ing things up, that means you'll now be allowed to imbue weapons with a "human rending" or something. Great idea! definately not overpowering melees to the extreme^2

Definately balancing out the system there guys! keep up the good work!

edit: oh yeah, the three levels were fine and dandy, but the 2 pieces of "uber quality loot" you gave us for taking away 1 week's worth of wasting our time turned out to be a great uber 5 units of salvage for my half completed bags.

can I get a WORTHWHILE?

Lenin

03-02-2004, 09:21 PM

[gee golly]

Ranador

03-02-2004, 09:22 PM

Originally posted by Ibn
Yup. Your chance will be slightly higher in 100+, but the 80+ loot can spawn all the same high-spells max-mod stuff that the 100+ loot can.

Maybe you should answer the real questions and complaints.

Xantcha

03-02-2004, 09:22 PM

Ibn, I know you're reading all this negative feedback. Please tell me something that will stop me and the majority of my guild from cancelling our accounts. We, as well as most of Darktide, have no desire to play the game of your 'vision', and if you insist on implementing it over the wishes of your customers, go ahead and let us know now so we can get it over with.

Drakul

03-02-2004, 09:23 PM

SO WHAT about the loot these other changes are what we want to know about

DON"T DO IT

DarkLegend

03-02-2004, 09:23 PM

Ya know, i hate to say it

I've been with AC from the start

But right now..I'm done, this is just plain BS...

Can you say "unsubscribe"

Ibn

03-02-2004, 09:24 PM

Originally posted by Alissa
We are not unintelligent, however we are beginning to wonder what prompted all of this and just what we are waiting for.

What prompted this -- we realized that the loot system was broken, particularly badly in a few places, and that if we ever want to add cool new stuff at the high end, we'd have to make these changes.

Will it truly be better? Or will many of us be paying out money until April or later to see that we still can not play, or of we do play we have had to change the fundamental thing, how we enjoy the game, to fit this new vision?

Yes, it will be truly better. We all play the game too, we have no intention of ruining it.

-Arlyn-

03-02-2004, 09:24 PM

So, I now have in black and white that I basically won't be finding much in the way of majors, and that I'm going to be working full time just to make ends meet.

Wonderful.
It's been a nice 4 years.

Parkstool

03-02-2004, 09:24 PM

Some people just dont get it. Maybe pvp wasn't balanced for melees FOR YOU because YOU [aren't good] AT IT. If turbine is going to do this to mages they should make it so melees cannot break sticky thats only fair isn't it?

A good melee is a equal match to a mage.

Pigroast

03-02-2004, 09:25 PM

ibn, that is all good and well about the loot but alot of us are not going to wait around until june or july until it is fixed.

you really could be honest with your players with a timetable of the loot changes.

Lenin

03-02-2004, 09:25 PM

Oh by the way, thank you to an above poster for my new MSN handle:

no_stril says:
nicec name lol
Turbine fails to apply anything useful(100) to PvP. Darktide is destroyed. says:
ty

Zedon

03-02-2004, 09:25 PM

Thanks, I like these changes, now my dagger toon will have a chance at actually hurting a mage in PK.

Keep up the good work.

Maybe mages won't be so pwerful after all, even though they can probably still kill me in one shot.

Emeritus

03-02-2004, 09:25 PM

HOOAH for Lion-O he's on cue

unlike those (aaa)s over at turbine

Azooln

03-02-2004, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by Ibn

Yes, it will be truly better. We all play the game too, we have no intention of ruining it.

Yeah? You're sure about that one?

Perhaps in your own opinion it will be better.

This isn't your game is it?

You don't own this. Turbine might. But the Devs do not.

The only reason AC has lasted so long is because (of course) the popularity of it. Drasticly changing the way a large aspect of the game is insane.

The people are what keep AC alive.

Why don't you listen to the people?

Alltu_Tru

03-02-2004, 09:30 PM

what makes ya'll think that a large portion of the player base hates these changes? just because of a small VERY vocal and profanity ridden minority starts a flame fest??

Kanok

03-02-2004, 09:30 PM

Im an archer ingame, and all a mage has to do to kill me is vuln, drain hp 7 me, then bolt me.

OR

AT BEST an archer can get 2 arrows off when a good mage gets 1 shot off. On tinked armor archers hit for mabe 35 or so at best. thats 70 damage when mages do 250 a hit.

When you get a mage down to low health, all he has to do is stam to hp 1 to get all his health back, Archers dont have this option, and when getting hit for 250, its often very hard to heal, even with great healing skill.

Trajectory of Arrows and Arcs are the same, making it no harder for a mage to dodge arrows than it is for an archer to dodge Arcs.

AS OF RIGHT NOW, PvP is horribly unfair,

After the patch, it looks like things will be a lot more balenced.
We will have to see.
=)

darkfire

03-02-2004, 09:32 PM

"Yes, it will be truly better. We all play the game too, we have no intention of ruining it"

Good god, tell me you weren't being serious.

Retread

03-02-2004, 09:34 PM

Well I'm disappointed that the one issue I cared about was passed on. The value of loot. I'm just not willing to log into a "game" to do work in order to play. I really don't care what you do about majors, armor, weapons or spells in the loot system. I want to be able to explore and quest without spending hours of boring hunting to buy comps.

You say you will continue to watch the situation. So will I. And maybe I'll re-subscribe my accounts when you take some action.

Maybe I'm too old to undertand how simulating work is supposed to be fun. I don't remember thinking it would be fun to work, when I was a kid. But if other players accept your vision, I'll accept the possiblity that I'm just out of touch with what most people consider fun.

GraceMolloy

03-02-2004, 09:35 PM

ya thanks green is hard to read .. stop thanks bye

as for an acutal question ..

Ibn .. in regards to
NPK players can assist a friend with armor buffing, so long as their friend is not wielding a shield

is this "just" the chest piece? that would be a little useless. I hope you're honestly meaning I can buff someone's armor (all of it) just by casting on them while not wearing a shield

please respond b/c it will drasticly change how a few of us in the Bot community write our BuffBot

Thanks for the Info
Grace

Emeritus

03-02-2004, 09:35 PM

holla at hunter of tears

because he knows what hes talking about

Azooln

03-02-2004, 09:35 PM

Originally posted by Alltu_Tru
what makes ya'll think that a large portion of the player base hates these changes? just because of a small VERY vocal and profanity ridden minority starts a flame fest??

Well if you want your voice to be heard, you need to speak up.

I take it from the lack of responces backing this new system, that people could really not care what they do. Since the only people who are being vocal are the ones who like the game the way it has been for the past....4 years?...... I think that their opinion should be seen as higher.

Khanivore_DT

03-02-2004, 09:36 PM

Im done with AC and DT with these changes.

Kanok

03-02-2004, 09:36 PM

Ever ask yourself why the GREAT majority of pks are mage??

BECAUSE THEY ARE SO OVERPOWERED RIGHT NOW.

Im so glad they are evening it up finally.

Right now, the majority of players who are archer/melee never go pk, due to the fact that its almost impossible to win against mages of significantly lower level, unless its a gang of melees attacking 1 mage.

Lionhart

03-02-2004, 09:37 PM

Yes, it will be truly better. We all play the game too, we have no intention of ruining it -IBN

TOO LATE

YOU JUST RUINED IT

now how about replying to all the bad imput about PvP instead of just the loot?

Jet-eye-nite

03-02-2004, 09:38 PM

I have never PK'd and am sure glad I don't . My question which hasn't been posed here as of yet , will mobs have the ability to cast armor de-buffs ? If so then "pfft ". Not to be a SA but turbine is always talking of great changes down the road but when we get there they never have been . I have been around since beta 2 and have enjoyed this game so much . But , with all the changes you state taking 3-5 months of 0 enjoyment I wonder if it wouldn't be better to just turn the game off until you tweaked everything you want to and then turn it back on .
As far as the "intended level" no one plays that way , most fight 1 1/2 times their lvl ( I have a 47 sword hunting 100-115 mobs) . Why because of poor loot and lousy xp in the lower lvls . If the game revolves around hockey don't show up with goalposts,grass and a football and wonder what the guff is all about . I just wonder why the players requests are put by the way side ? Like the major request for a single item spell(s) that would bane all weilded armor. I like most came to have fun and maybe even escape the **** of RL for awhile ,but since Feb patch I get more & more upset playing than just not. Please don't run me off I don't want to go :confused:

Pigroast

03-02-2004, 09:39 PM

"Yes, it will be truly better. We all play the game too, we have no intention of ruining it."

WOW, could have fooled me...........

that is all well and good ibn, but it will be pretty sad if you lose all your players before it starts to get better.

If I were increasing the price by $3 an account, I would think you would want it to be smooth as possible. Instead you are losing that 3 dollars AND the 9.99 multiplied by at least dozens.

edit: too many games on the horizon to be playing russian roulette. I thought you guys were smarter than this.

DarkLegend

03-02-2004, 09:39 PM

out of curosity

If you are against the March Patch..

http://d2z.ownith.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=39

ichiro mvp

03-02-2004, 09:40 PM

Pk is a joke if this happens. When a melee debuffs a mages armor the mage is done with. Its aready hard enough to kill a 126+ melee. Your doing this to make things even because you can debuff melee weapons? Well, its very very very rare that in a duel youll see a mage debuffing a sword or w/e.

Please dont make a misteak and screw up pvp.

Tibow

03-02-2004, 09:42 PM

KANOK , THE MAJORITY OF GREAT PKS ARE MAGES BECAUSE IF U ARE A MELEE , PRESSING DELETE KEY IS NOT LOOKING-LIKE SKILLED MOST OF TIME ( even if sometimes it's hard )

Aztek

03-02-2004, 09:42 PM

IBN I suppose you can both lure and brittlemail the armor as well?

And if your wearing a Haulberk is your abdomen/arms/shoulders impacted by this change?

RedSeptember_WE

03-02-2004, 09:43 PM

I personally dont like anything Ive read in the March letter, & Last month was a Major shock as well. Why the need to completly turn AC as we know it upside down?

Im not saying the changes are bad or good but your throwing them at us in mass quanity now with no time at all to adjust.

If your plan is to continue to make major changes untill youve managed to get every player to quit, your headed in the right direction.

DadgaSilverhand

03-02-2004, 09:45 PM

try wearing the olthoi armors and olthoi shields, they are unenchantable, it goes either way, cant buff or debuff.
just carry few death items to prevent the drop of olthoi armors.
even Knorr helms is no drop.
having very high magic defense skill can resist and break up the strings of debuffs or war spells.
try undead mechanic to do the alloy quests to get the boots, they are no drop.

Heideggar

03-02-2004, 09:47 PM

I really can't express in words how [annoyed] I am right now. Why don't you just unplug the servers and be done with it.

Lets screw with creatures, their loot, chests, PK'ing, and almost every worthy dynamic that makes this game tick ALL at once.

I feeling more and more like a beta tester, and I'm paying for this game. How do I put it... [it is horrible].

Ban me, I don't care.

Ugh! I'll make a more detailed analysis of that LTTP.

Lets let people decrease another's armor class so they can do 140+ damage more often and then give those people most susceptible to that damage an even weaker means to regain health.

[What] are you guys doing during the day at your offices?

I coulda drank drano and came up with something better.

TWO months before you take out AL 20 leather. How hard is that? lol o m g.

I'll post later, this is just rediculous.

I'm really really disappointed. I see very little reason for me to even play anymore with all this going on. Why bother? I could save myself the NOW 13 bucks a month for 6-10 months until things get fixed.

You guys sure aren't improving MY gameplay experience. I can assure you that.

DarkLegend

03-02-2004, 09:48 PM

http://d2z.ownith.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=39

Post if you have not, and oppose the March Patch..

Youd on't have to sign up, just do it as a guest...make sure to include your IG name and server....

Paraduck

03-02-2004, 09:49 PM

I think that a better thing to do than start loading up the PK changes would have been to post the collective "vision" of PvP combat. That way, players know where these changes will hopefully lead us. I know that some of the concerns raised by players in the PvP feedback threads resulted in some of these changes, but putting out some of the changes before the vision is putting the cart before the horse, IMO.

I also agree with those that say that these changes seem to be killing PK (red) combat on NPK servers. The PK Battlefield this month was a step toward getting players to go red, but now I expect to see even less red dots than before with the upcoming changes. There needs to be more reasons to go red -- not less. :)

I'm intrigued by the fellowship dynamic as well. Perhaps it's a precursor to those fellowship-effecting spells.

As far as March loot changes go, I'm not going to comment much on them, as I haven't played them yet. However, I do hope there are level 100+ intended chests, as it sounds like Singularity Troves are now intended for 80+. True, there's not much of a difference between 80+ and 100+ loot, but a 100+ chest would be very nice to have.

Kanok

03-02-2004, 09:50 PM

Tibow, obviously you have never pked, you dont just stay stuck on a mage the whole time, you have to dodge his wars..

Archers, same.

Pigroast

03-02-2004, 09:51 PM

"If your plan is to continue to make major changes untill youve managed to get every player to quit, your headed in the right direction."

well said.

Roadkill

03-02-2004, 09:56 PM

From reading the march LttP, as far as the loot changes...the basic message I am getting is tuff ****. So you are saying that a person killing level 95-100-110 monsters should be getting lvl 3 & 4 **** loot worth about 2-3k pyreals?

edit: I can't believe you cencored that word. To clarify this to everyone, it was not a swear word. I'm not quite that dumb. It started with the letter c and ended with the letter p, with ra in the middle. That got cencored?

Jas-of-HG

03-02-2004, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by sylphia
Well the treasure portion has vindicated the stance I have taken all along. Thank you Ibn.

*SIGH*

Not in my eyes, Sylphia.

In the LTTP, Turbine acknowledges the value nerf and the pea nerf. They make no commitment to addressing either.

Level your mage to 50... then watch him or her rot. You won't be able to afford components ever again. You won't be able haul your measley 2k armor loot to the shop fast enough to pay for the plat rate.

It's great that Turbine is going to address the availability of scrolls in the loot system... but until I can SELL them for what the Scriveners charge, it doesn't help me at all.

Here's the thing... running to the shop to sell loot is not fun. It's part of the game, but it is not fun. I want to play, not be forced into running back to the shop every 10 minutes to turn in junk I found on monsters to pay for my plats.

Look... my main is a level 126+ mage. I've spent about 4 billion on mana conversion and the attributes that contribute to that particular skill. After 4 billion XP, my main still burns a couple plats an hour in hunting & buffing.

Even for the Pollyanas... it's not going to be possible for a level 60 mage to play. It's just not feasible.

Bring back a little value. Bring back some peas. Just a few.

*begs*

Shadowjack

03-02-2004, 09:56 PM

Hello
I have been a player since beta 2.....and am in for the long haul.
The loot change patch is the first time i have been disappointed to an extreme in the game. Most likely since i am a loot junky...hehe. The letter helps somewhat and i will adjust as best as possible. I would like to make one comment though. The letter stated that a 325 wield weapon would not be useful to a low level character and that a hi lvl would not want a no wield weapon. I disagree with this......the 325 weapon found by the lowbie could be traded or horded to be used later...i for one always loved finding uber items even ones i could not use...it provided great incentive for me to increase my skills so i could use the item. The second part about hi lvls not wanting to find no wield weapons..........well i like to play characters i like to play lowbies and play a variety of lvls....a good no wield weapon is always a good find for me......anyway my point is i think that having a small percentage chance to find uber items and nonuber items should be included in all lvls....ty and hope to see ya all at the fifty yr celebration.........hehe

KF_AC

03-02-2004, 09:57 PM

Armor Debuffs are GOOD ... but we need Dispel Item VII at the same time as the debuffs are in.

shouldn't be that hard.

Add Dispel VII for Life and CE while at it, what logical reason not to have them?

Alltu_Tru

03-02-2004, 09:58 PM

read it again roadkill, they said they found some bugs in the new stuff and it will be fixed, in other words, you should start seeing true lvl 6 loot in the 80+ on up areas again IE: more value for selling :)

Sparkitup

03-02-2004, 09:58 PM

letting chest pieces get debuffed = moronic idea that will ruin pvp on darktide.

removing stam to health 1 means everyone needs healing, no big deal. It just changes the dynamice of mage fights and mage vs melee. Is a huge hampering effect on all around gameplay of a mage.

these are terrible changes and if they are actually implemented I will 100% cancel my subscription until they are removed(at least the stupid idea to debuff armor pieces)

I would like to thank turbine for running a great gam up until this point. I hope you guys wake up and see how ridiculously stupid this idea is. Seriously, you will see a huge decrease in subscriptions if this idea is implemented

Mr_Fred

03-02-2004, 10:01 PM

I can safely say, I'm skeptical about these changes. Not happy about the PK stuff with mages...It could over all change things for the better (i suppose). The adjustment for everyone is going to suck BIG TIME monkey stones.

I'm not too happy about the transfer thing. I know we'll adjust.

LOOT

I hope...I HOPE.....

You put your money where your mouth is on this. Right now as it stands. I don't have any reason, what so ever to log in. Everything that I used to do, has now become obsolete.

You've alienated your customer base on this one, Turbine. I hope you have the brass to make this right.

Lycentia

03-02-2004, 10:02 PM

Well the letter was a lot more informative about the changes than the last letter.

I have some comments and a few questions. Questions in bold and italics so that I can be sure to get a reply if it's something you can answer. Thanks.

1. Armor: The type and qualities of armor found in the various levels of loot are out of whack. This is one of the reasons why you’re finding AL20 leather at much higher creature levels than you would expect. We’re aware of this issue and are working on it, but the changes will not be in March, nor are they likely for April.

This is pretty dissapointing to me. I really wanted to see the armor loot fixed faster. It is always more valuable to me, as a mage, than the weapon loot is. Waiting until June is going to be a struggle. Couldn't this be fixed any sooner than that?

2. Starting in March, the first three levels of transfer spells will have their percentage returned increased, to improve their value for low-level characters. In addition, to reduce the imbalance issue, the first four levels of transfer spells will have their maximum transfer capped.

Yuck! Now When I will have to take on smaller mobs when I hunt, or hunt a little more carefully rather than being extremely dangerous liek I used to, because I won't have this spell to fall back on in case of a bind. Well, we will see. Maybe it will still work out ok in case of a bind..... I know this was done for pvp though, but from the looks of the pvp players they arn't too happy about any of the changes made for them. I can deal with this change though. It's not that bad, well at least I don't think so yet.

3. One of the new quests this month has as a key part of it a quest dynamic that you’ve not seen before – fellowship quests and “locked” fellowships....................in certain special circumstances or for specific quests, we may use these new features to ensure that the quest be tackled by a group of players

What if I can only find a small group at the time I want to go? Will these quests be able to have any size of fellowship, or does it have to be a full one? I'm sure I can find a full fellow most of the time but what about those that can't?

4. The Singularity Trove deserves its own comment. The Singularity Trove used to be in the class with the best possible loot in the game – but the troves and keys could be found by characters at a lower level. The Singularity Trove is now in the 80+ target range of loot.

Uggg, so all those sings people saved up are going to go down in value now. I feel sorry for the guy on our server that worked his butt off making trades and hunting for sings to end up with over 5,000 sings and then be hit with a change like this. Will these chests still weild Majors? Also, are the chests in the VOD going to be 100+ loot or will they be equal to sing troves? And will those 2 chests be equal to each other or will on ebe better than the other still?

5. How do you know where to find creatures for your level? The best place to look is at our Creature Distribution Map, which can be found on our Download page. This map shows how the creatures were laid out during the landscape redistribution last year. The levels given are suggested player levels, so that gives you a place to start hunting and see how it feels.

This is the most dissapointing to me of any of the letter. Does this mean the the level 100+ loot will now only be on VOD and Caul monsters that have 6k-50k health? Will there be any new monsters added for level 100+ characters that are just meaner with attacks and spells, and fight in mobs, but have less health and still weild 100+ loot? Are level 100+ characters going to be forced to hunt these high health monsters in order to find the best loot?

6. The Invoker, or Portalspace, quest will also be updated.

Will this quest be even more difficult than it is now after the patch or will the updates and changes applied to it make th equest easier to organize and complete? I have yet to complete this quest, but I have been holding my ember since the baudren first came out. I would like to finally get my invoker but it was always too difficult to get a group good enough to help me finish, well I finally have a group now to go. But I need to know if I should do the quest before patch or if I should hold onto my ember until after the patch? Will my ember even be good anymore if I wait until after patch?

7.In the past, there has been no means of buffing or debuffing another player’s armor. Negative armor Item Enchantment spells such as Lures or Brittlemail were only useful on a target wielding a shield. PK and PKL players have never had a means of countering, or “breaking through,” the positive effects cast upon an opposing player’s armor. Starting in March, you will now be able to do so – with some limitations.

Will monsters also be able to do this to players? I sure hope not, because it would be dreadfull unbalancing to mages. Without melee defense we depend on the AL of our armor, and we sure can't carry a sheild to help us not get debuffed while we cast. I ask this because there are monsters on Caul that can debuff your shield atm.

Sabu

03-02-2004, 10:03 PM

Heh last time i try pkin with my lvl 101 mage... any Melee than can debuff is gonna eat me up.

How did you guys come to the conclusion that Stam to Health needs to be changed? I doubt very many people before pkin have actually bought the scroll.

Tibow was sarcastic i assume.

DarkMarcsun

03-02-2004, 10:16 PM

Sorry if this has been asked and answered already:

Is New Caul considered in the 80+ or 100+ zone?

Emeritus

03-02-2004, 10:16 PM

Let me explain how the matchups went before this patch and after on DT.

Melee v Melee
Archer v Archer
Archer v Mage
I'm not too experienced at these but I don't see a whole lot of change as a result of the patch. However...

Mage v Mage
Before: Very much skill dependent. One of the best mage PKs on DT wasn't even 126 (Parazi). It required a combination of luck and skill, where you'd second guess your oponent and try to land the war type he wasn't expecting. Still, very easy for someone to escape.
After: LOL. I can't see even moderately skilled mages dying in these any more. They could last for an hour before you knew what was coming at you before it hit. Please

Mage v Melee
Before: Having played a mage, I'd say it was really quite even. I could beat unskilled melees about 95% of the time, but against good melees, it was more of a matter of whether they landed the crit often.
After: Don't even bother with the armor changes, they won't matter, because a melee can kill you quickly enough that it's not worth it. Instead of having to back up 15 feet and dodge, they can dodge from 3 feet away because they know what is coming. There is no chance of you hitting them with a regular war when they are trying to dodge, because those are simple even from 3 feet if you know they are coming. Likewise they can circle you if an arc is coming. They land a crit and you're dead. You don't even have a chance to stam to health and recover. Just quit. I am.

Roadkill

03-02-2004, 10:22 PM

ok, i'll re-read LttP...but my previous post raises the question...if that word got censored here, will it be considered profanity in game? How about heck? darn? fiddlesticks?

ArtilexOfDarkti

03-02-2004, 10:24 PM

I'm sorry to say, but the changes you are making to PvP are very illogical. Some of the worst things I could possibly thing of, every class is balanced right now. Drains are even as are melees and mages. If anyone needs work it is archers... I get hit for 70 on crit by level 126 archers... they need improvement. But making armor debuffable is horrible. It ruins pvp as a whole, people hit for hard as it is and doing this completely un balances things. One of the most important things to mages was the quick ability to regain health seeing that they attack the slowest, destroying stamina to health is another killing blow to the mage population. I highly suggest you rethink your ideas on PvP before you change them.

http://vnboards.ign.com/Darktide/b5152/65235707/?46

Most of the people on the post may be lying... but a lot of Darktide players are very upset by this and are canceling their acounts.

-Artilex of Darktide

Delupin

03-02-2004, 10:25 PM

An unequivocal thumbs-up from me with regard to all of these proposed changes.

Did any complainant here present ever stop to consider that Turbine might be pursuing the honourable and judicious goal of opening up PK[L] to those who aren't "level" 150+ with near maximum Strength and unevadeable weapon skill?

Mirin

03-02-2004, 10:26 PM

Originally posted by Lycentia
6. The Invoker, or Portalspace, quest will also be updated.

Will this quest be even more difficult than it is now after the patch or will the updates and changes applied to it make th equest easier to organize and complete? I have yet to complete this quest, but I have been holding my ember since the baudren first came out. I would like to finally get my invoker but it was always too difficult to get a group good enough to help me finish, well I finally have a group now to go. But I need to know if I should do the quest before patch or if I should hold onto my ember until after the patch? Will my ember even be good anymore if I wait until after patch?

Hi Lycentia,

The Portal Space quest will be easier to organize for and complete once the March changes go in. You'll still be able to use your Ember afterwards, so it's up to you as to when you'd like to go on the quest.

Lilkinsly

03-02-2004, 10:27 PM

Ok, I have always at least pertly supported everything that you all have ever done. Thinking that you at least thought out things first. Often, something needed changed.

That being said, wth are you guys thinking? Seriously. Right now, a skilled melee person can kill a mage one on one. A well built skilled one doesn't even need to didge, they just tank and heal swinging away.

In a group fight, 2 melee can kill a mage easily.

Yes, I could debuff a melee weapon, they could hide the weapon, or they could switch to a different weapon.

Now you have made it where all a melee (or their friend) needs to do is bait and brittle your BP, now hits on that BP will kill you. A melee wont need a group anymore, they can destroy you solo.

What should a mage do, take off his armor when he sees the words? Switch to another BP? Yea right.

It's not like it will now be easier to hit people with War Magic, or that a mag can evade melee now. You have taken PVP from almost being totally balanced (with archers needing a little work) to destroying it.

Now at the same time you nerf the S2H transfer spells? Not only does that have an impact in PVP, that has a huge impact in PVM as well. Mages take FAR FAR more damage against monsters then other classes do, this can't be new news to you. Now you nerf a mages emergency healing? Why why why?

I really can't believe this. I have loved this game for over 4 years, resisted all efforts by friends to try a different one. This is the first time that I honestly feel like you guys really don't have a clue or care anymore.

The debuffing armor and s2h nerf is wrong, 100% wrong.

Lycentia

03-02-2004, 10:28 PM

Thank you Mirin :)

Something I can be happy about. :D

Lionhart

03-02-2004, 10:31 PM

how about responding to the PvP negativity instead of just the other stuff??

please

Hazok

03-02-2004, 10:32 PM

yea why havent you ..

Cuttler

03-02-2004, 10:36 PM

there should be no creatures that always drop “useless loot”

--There was a time that food and parchment dropped often on creatures. Someone wised up one day and removed that annoying feature. But now we have to deal with inferior heal kits and lead and iron peas on creatures that level 90's are ment to kill. That is annoying and basicaly "useless loot". I'd rather the corpse be empty. You can ID it to determine that and not waste your time opening it if that is the case.

Right now, if a creature is intended for level 60 characters, it will have loot for level 40-60. This can make it very challenging to “break in” to the next level of creatures – you can’t fight stronger creatures without getting better equipment, but you can’t get better equipment without fighting stronger creatures!

--ah...that's what a patron is for. And since you are now giving patrons ridiculously high amounts of passup they had better be getting there vassals what they need since the grand patron and monarch have no insentive to help take the burden off the direct patron now.

Another issue that has resulted in a great deal of feedback is the value of items – many players have reported difficulty in making enough pyreals through hunting to pay for their components, mana charges, and other consumables. We are watching the situation closely, but at this time we have no plans to directly change the value of loot items.

--All you need to do is put the peas from copper on up back on the corpses to pay for consumables. For anyone who just needs to make some cash, that is the best type of loot. It's light and it stacks...'nuff said.

Armor Debuffing

...I dont PK so this matter doesn't concern me much. But I do agree with Lugian Warlord's suggestion. If something like this could be implemented my suggetion would be to increase Assess Person to 4 skill pts, take it away from aluvian's, decrease assess monster to 2 ponts, and replace that for aluvians. That gives everyone who wants to ID and debuff people the same cost factor.

Please, don’t take these changes as an indication that we are removing Asheron’s Call’s soloability! The ability to advance while playing alone is one of Asheron’s Call’s strengths, and we have no intention of removing it.

--Once again AC's "soloability" is mainly for mages, especially at the "Uber" level. There is NOWHERE I can take my level 148 sword (by earned xp standards) alone and make deceint xp for what her skills cost to raise now. To play her I have to wait till enough of my family is on to go to the VoD. The "uber" levels need some dungeons to hunt it that caters to there skills without having to rely on a mage to smack it with a vlun and/or a imperil. Yes the rending feature "helps", but not to the extent that allows one to kill natural spawns fast enough to generate very good xp like a mage can. By good xp I mean like 5 to 8 mill per hour, which ins't much considering the 22 or more per hour that can be made in fellows.

Magik Brute of

03-02-2004, 10:38 PM

Ibn,

I have read nothing but NEGITIVE feed back on the Letter to Players for the month of March. Let me give you a little history lesson, I have been playing AC since about April/May of 99 like so many other players. I have watched most of my friends leave as they were mages and they got tired of the MAGE HATE that has gone on over the past 2.5 years. I have stuck with it in the hopes that it will get better but it's become very clear to be over the past 2 months that Turbine no longer deserves my hard earned money. If you can PROVE to myself and the rest of the player base that Turbine is SERIOUS about keeping customers and actaully listing to them the NOW would be a good time to speak up on all of the Negitive feedback.

1. Let's say that you have 10000 people playing a day. Of that 10000 say 15% are PK's or PKL's that's only 1500 people. The rest are (or 8500) are White NPK's (I am amonge them). And we finally have them agreening that the changes are BAD. Are you going to listen to the Player Base on this?

2. The Loot Changes. BAD for everyone or Bring the price of Plats done to a more resonable level to reflect the value of loot, say 10k a plat. I think we could all live with that? But a warning before you do it. Some of us have "money" stored in plats and it would be nice to convert that to MMD's or Pryeal Scrabs Peas before the change happened.

3. AC has alwasy been about solo play for me. You are taking that away with this "locked fellowship" quest. There are plenty of QUEST I do not go on becasue of (excuse the phrasing) stupid people. I like nothing more than having no white/pink/red dots on my radar as they tend to interfeare with my hunting.....I am a solo hunter.

Ibn, I eagarly await your comment's/respones to this.

pacesetter

03-02-2004, 10:38 PM

IBN said:Something that should be kept in mind -- if you cast stam to mana I in March and only get 45, it only took away 50. If you're buffing -- just cast it again.

something for devs to think about,

mage vs melee, mage is dying, mage is out of mana and needs 2-3 more spells to win or a quick mana recharge to heal, stam to mana 1 = 2-3 seconds; stam to mana 5 = 7-10 seconds, plenty of time to get hit several more times.

you made this for lil guys, did you take into consideration bigger mages? Do we count?

I really fail to see how this is going to help the little guys. I know of no big mages that grieff lil guys.

makes it level oriented; bs it is already level oriented, you did that in the last drain nerf, remember???

Drakul

03-02-2004, 10:39 PM

IBN WHY HAVE YOU NOT RESPONDED TO THE PVP CHANGES
I GUESS WHEN I START CALLING YOUR COMPANY TOMARROW WE SHALL SEE. ALSO I AM TELLING EVERONE I KNOW TO DO THE SAME.
THANK YOU

sylphia

03-02-2004, 10:40 PM

Jas,
Funny, I DO have a mage in that range, and guess what? I CAN make more than enough to support her. I also have mages MUCH higher than her, with more expenses, and I fund them just as easily. I employ the same tactics I did before there ever were peas: I check all corpses and pick up high value/low BU items, focusing mainly on magical jewelry and select pieces of armor and weapons, due to their tendancy to yield good profits. Its not as easy as peas, but its still quite viable.

Just as I predcted, the loot tiers are being adjusted to be more in line with the levels of the mobs/players themselves. They even covered my only real concern with the new system: mobs at the top of each level range will share the NEXT level range's loot tier. So you can hunt at your current level for any gear you currently need, and for slvage and cash; ewhen you are ready to start prepping for the next tier of mobs, you hunt the highest level of mobs in that tier to start getting loot to prepare yourself for it. Not coincidentally, you start getting lloot for the next tier of mobs when you are approaching the level of the mobs in your current tier that wll actually drop it. The new system makes sense, and it means you wont be as apt to get a wield 300 item when you can barely get into a wield 250 one. That 300 item would be tossed on a mule or in a shop and otherwise uselss to you at your current stage of development.

They are adressing the issue of scroll levels, another major concern in particular to mages, with the March prop. Sing troves may not be THE BEST item sources in the game, but they will be no worse off than they were before the Feb patch. If they are dropping the same quality of loot as before, then they havent been nerfed. Just because there is now going to be something better, that doesnt equate to a nerf.

I agree that I would like to see peas dropping at a better rate. I think my suggestion to change how they are handled in the loot system would do that: make them drop as level-appropriate components, rather than value-to-loot-tier items. They would return to being a good and reliable source of income. But they are not mandatory in order for you to provide yourself with enough cash to supply yourself AND bank some in the process. I am doing it all right now, even without the improvements coming next month.

Scrolls being worth what they cost in the scriveners would certainly be a boon too. But they still save yo umoney if you collect the ones for spell levels you dont have yet. On my nwbie toons on my alt server, i have one mule full of scrolls just waiting for the toons to level into them. A Creature Self 5 scroll that I need still saves me the cash I would have had to spend on it at a scrivener. I just cant sell and extra one for any real cash is all. Would be nice to be able to do so, but it STILL saves me money regardless. When my newbie mage hit lvl 5 spell level, I was able to learn over half of her spells for free because I had them saved from looting. Same thing when my melee hit lvl 5s. No matter how you look at it, thats money I didnt have to pay a scrivener for the same spells.

All in all, the loot changes laid out in the LttP are what I predicted they would be. Seems to me that confirms what I have said multiple times and received a bunch of lip and flames over. All those insults and accusations of being a Turbine fanboy--despite the fact I also stated my own dissatisfaction on many points--have been proven baseless. But I doubt I will see any apologies for it.

Alissa

03-02-2004, 10:40 PM

Dear Turbine,

Please for the general pacification, for lack of a better word, tell us what your vision is.

Do not side step answering parts of posts or questions.

We want to know why such fundamental things are being changed.

We want to hear, "see", your vision and know it is worth the wait or hassle of playing through all of the seeming nerfs.

That is all we ask, to know that it will be worth all the effort and heartache.

If you can not, since it is so seemingly secret, then why not save them for your update/upgrade/expansion and prepare us in the mean time for the changes before hand?

What is burning people up now is not that there are changes, we all know they come in this game after 4 plus years, however the speed and seeming changing of FUNDAMENTAL parts of the game.

Several people besides myself on other threads and forums on this board and others have asked the same question and you always just pick a small insignificant thing to answer which then just angers people even more.

Feb's patch and now the March patch seem doomed to cause a loss of revenue for you as you are angering many who have been around quite awhile.

We have been here through thick and thin and yet does this not seem too much too fast?

Or is this a case of not looking out the castle window and seeing the peasents with the torches and pitchforks?

We have had more faith in Turbine over the years then with MS, we rejoiced when you got AC back, please do not make us lose the faith let us see the vision.

Jheran

03-02-2004, 10:40 PM

Turbine fails to apply patch(100) to game engine, AC is destroyed.

Would have been more appropriate.

For years I have passed along the good word, come try AC you'll like it. I don't do that anymore, haven't in some time. I had hoped with the changing of the gaurd that Turbine with full dominion would be able to improve the game. I have so far only witnessed one thing, they'll continually promise you the earth, drop broad encompassing changes then apologise after for not telling us all about it sooner. Please stop apologising, LEARN from your mistakes and start letting us know whats happening before it is at our doorstep.

The loot changes...
I went out for a cashloot run yesterday, that would normally have netted me around 800-1mil in pyreals, sure thats probably heaps but the deal is this is a game, its supposed to be fun and making money isn't one of my favourite passtimes. How much did I make now? Nothing! Less than nothing because I didn't even cover any of the spellcomps I used. Yet, Turbine tells us this is not a nerf so I must be playing the game wrong, clearly I'm met to sit in town and stare at their pretty skyline.

I went out hunting for nice loot, I'd been buried in a dungie trying to passup XP to my trademule all January, and last weekend my tradebot was ripped off so I was somewhat short on everything. Unfortunately I found nothing of value, I thought maybe if I use this full steel key ring, but I found nothing worthwhile there either.

Oh sure, there was some good. I can find armor tinkering things more commonly. If only that had happened before I turned my archer into a bowmage because it was pointless otherwise. Baning for 20-30mins, or finding Cov that had me anywhere remotely (not as good, just able to do more than spam heal if I was debuffed - pure extreme tank bow with alot of melee d) as effective as baned magemelee's was just impossible to put together, espescially as a critter suit. I'm glad I switched over though, before they ruined health2mana I.

Guess I'll have to hunt VoD or Caul, too bad I like to solo places and all those spots can do is chase me (and stay) well off radar, hopefully find a clearish spot and pray that 3-4 new spawn points (not creatures, points where multiple creatures arrive) don't drop on my head at once. Yeah fun fun.

The Armor debuffs...
Its funny, I was asking my PK sword friend about this just the other day and his response was a most fervent NO, he did not want this to ever happen. I don't PK much but I can see this entering the PvM world soon, if not already with those shield debuffing Marguls. Wow, so the mages one defence armor is now almost a liability. I'd better switch into one of those amulidon suits to limit the DEFECTS of it.

The Conversion changes...
I always thought it strange that the lower stam2health was better than any of the highers too, ofcourse I thought it sort of balanced out when you considered mages cop the damage of all melee and missile and war hits, with not much ability to evade the first two (except perhaps in pk, but then I don't pk much). Perhaps having the spell cast durations in reverse would have been a better idea here... I can jsut use a IV now sure, but thats a fair bit slower but not too much of a nerf, I can live with that.

There are a lot of exciting new games coming out, or just out and Turbine really should be doing something to keep their playerbase, not encourage them to look elsewhere for fun - lately I have been having trouble dragging myself into game and now instead of improving things your just making it worse? I am so utterly dissapointed in everyone who has put into place these descisions... if I worked there I would have Quit in protest.

ArtilexOfDarkti

03-02-2004, 10:41 PM

Pvp has been open to all levels... just more difficult than others. If you don't have the xp your pk experience will still be extremely difficult. The changes that are being done are opening lower level targets even more. Mages can't do stam to health anymore... so if do not have over 400 hp you're dead anyway. Along with being able to attempt to debuff other people. Unless you have the XP pvp will still be very difficult. It will give you something to strive for and maybe a reason to hunt.

-art

Traum

03-02-2004, 10:43 PM

I have one concern about the comment that the invoker/portalspace quest is being upgraded/changed similar to frore: If the Invoker is upgraded or improved, I hope turbine considers that for those of us who already have one, the quest was very hard to organize and undergo. Being able to turn our current invokers into an NPC for the new one, like for instance, one of the Aun at the camp that starts the buadren/invoker quest, would be very much appreciated. If the invoker itself isn't being changed and I am in fact just jumping the gun, then feel free to ignore me :D

Lionhart

03-02-2004, 10:44 PM

you said this a game for the players, made by the players.

that means that u should listen to the players

or u can kiss my now THIRTEEN$ a onth...goodbye. as well as many others

rakiner

03-02-2004, 10:49 PM

Hmm. Not good. Not good at all.

pacesetter

03-02-2004, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by Kanok
Im an archer ingame, and all a mage has to do to kill me is vuln, drain hp 7 me, then bolt me.

OR

AT BEST an archer can get 2 arrows off when a good mage gets 1 shot off. On tinked armor archers hit for mabe 35 or so at best. thats 70 damage when mages do 250 a hit.

When you get a mage down to low health, all he has to do is stam to hp 1 to get all his health back, Archers dont have this option, and when getting hit for 250, its often very hard to heal, even with great healing skill.

Trajectory of Arrows and Arcs are the same, making it no harder for a mage to dodge arrows than it is for an archer to dodge Arcs.

AS OF RIGHT NOW, PvP is horribly unfair,

After the patch, it looks like things will be a lot more balenced.
We will have to see.
=)

vuln drain and bolt huh? drain does NO good if our health is not down and we can only drain what we need. now if ya said force bolt martyrs drain I might believe you pvp.

archers get off 4-6 arrows for each of my spells.

Nerice

03-02-2004, 10:54 PM

Dang, you guys are ******* more and more of your player base off. Month after month.

You are putting your AC franchise at risk. Very rapidly.

Jheran

03-02-2004, 10:56 PM

Oh, and one more point which is really about the 'Madness of Turbine' patch last month but I had hoped would be fixed in March. Ruining the value of Sings, one of the few relatively stable components to the player economy for all these years. Just go to market and look at how many of the tradebots have dropped the value on sings, or outright refuse to accept them as currency anymore. A good economy, is a stable economy please consider that.

Tomahawk

03-02-2004, 10:57 PM

Another nerf for non-life characters. My Lvl 1 transfer spells will work much worse for regaining mana.

Why not just put life magic as a required skill in every character??? Let all templates start with 38 pts.

It's already very painful to do any signficant buffing without life. You've now made it about twice as bad.

Forget any variety in templates. I'm saddened that for the 2nd month in a row, you didn't think through the ramifcations of a signficant change.

Lonsgard

03-02-2004, 10:58 PM

Ulgrim's Stein casts Stamina to Mana IV.

Vlad Morbius

03-02-2004, 10:59 PM

In short i think the community wants straight answers, stop dumping on our cupcakes and calling it frosting. We need something positive put in print giving us hope that you are not trying to kill this game off to make room for any of your upcoming projects.

There is nothing to be gained and a lot to lose by proceeding with all the unwanted changes. I really think a live discussion or dev chat is necessary before you've completely lost any allies to your regaining control of AC. It's not enough to say there will be good things coming, specifics are whats needed, not to the smallest detail but it has to be concrete enough for us to hold onto. A little sharing with the masses may go a long way to salvaging your dwindling support!

Emeritus

03-02-2004, 11:02 PM

Originally posted by Delupin
An unequivocal thumbs-up from me with regard to all of these proposed changes.

Did any complainant here present ever stop to consider that Turbine might be pursuing the honourable and judicious goal of opening up PK[L] to those who aren't "level" 150+ with near maximum Strength and unevadeable weapon skill?

Please tell me how making it so that anyone who can't resist a brittle/lure or evade 429 base sword dies in 3 seconds opens things up for lower levels. A lower level (90) mage could compete before this except against high level spec magic d chars. As they can't resist well, melees will just brit/lure and be done with them. High level mages don't even have to worry about other mages because (decent) mages can't kill eachother anymore with the advent of knowing if a streak or arc is coming. Not to mention that anyone with under 350 hp can't tank 2 wars anymore because they can't s2h. Lower level melees will only be more dependent on groups, as mages are now going to be loather happy. Yes, this sure is honorable and judicious.

Toxeus

03-02-2004, 11:05 PM

Okay, this letter has me cautiously optimistic (I don't PK, but the concerns of those who do is noted), but there is one thing that is distressing and that is the continued move towards a "fellowship" model MMORPG, just like every other game out there. What makes AC so engaging for me, a working professional, is that I can log on for 1-2 hours a day and get something done. I don't have the time, or the inclination to wait for groups, or put them together, unless its for something I really want to do.

This specifically scares me, and reminds me of my short time playing (and quitting) AC2:One of the new quests this month has as a key part of it a quest dynamic that you’ve not seen before – fellowship quests and “locked” fellowships. A fellowship quest means that your whole fellowship is on the quest, not just an individual. If you drop out of the fellowship, you will not be able to complete the quest. A “locked” fellowship is one in which new members cannot be recruited for the length of the quest. Fellowship members who leave the group have 15 minutes to get back in before they are unable to rejoin. This sounds like folks are forced into fellowships rather than just following the good old Bobo/Aerlinthe/Queen's Quest model of making it so darn hard that it's impossible to solo!! What was wrong with the old way, and why a change to the fundamental game dynamic?

As for loot: I hate the VoD, I despise the competition out there and I don't want to be forced to hunt there. Is there any reason to believe that I will not be compelled to fellow to find good loot??

I'm also a bit disappointed that my Item only archer appears to be out of luck with regard to ever buffing himself, but that's another story...

KPD157

03-02-2004, 11:05 PM

3 Words :)
I :)
Love :)
It :)

NiSSe

03-02-2004, 11:06 PM

WHY STAY
YES WHY ,,,,, why stay when not able to play , i guess server admins know nothing of playing on a pvp server, this is going to kil mages on the server and this is after the finaly made a balance system where a good melee had a good change vs a mage but now all mages will die for sure.

well turbine i cant say it help AT ALL u buying back the servers first of there where no change to the lag and all i saw is a change to the cost of playing, and now u do a retarded thing like this and letting all mages get owned by melee without having a chance.

well wave goodbuy to my 4 acc aswell and this is after over 4 years of playing and enjoying the game. bye bye

SCM

03-02-2004, 11:06 PM

I have only one wish & one question.

The wish:
All of those who have posted they are quitting please do so & don't bother returning until you mature a bit.
You all really do sound like spoilt little brats who cannot get their own way.

The question:
Will the questing fellowship changes allow for an increased number of members in the fellowship.
I have had several instances where we have needed to make 2 & sometimes 3 fellows to do a quest. (Due to the popularity of the quest)

pacesetter

03-02-2004, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by sylphia
Jas,
Funny, I DO have a mage in that range, and guess what? I CAN make more than enough to support her. I also have mages MUCH higher than her, with more expenses, and I fund them just as easily. I employ the same tactics I did before there ever were peas: I check all corpses and pick up high value/low BU items, focusing mainly on magical jewelry and select pieces of armor and weapons, due to their tendancy to yield good profits. Its not as easy as peas, but its still quite viable.

Just as I predcted, the loot tiers are being adjusted to be more in line with the levels of the mobs/players themselves. They even covered my only real concern with the new system: mobs at the top of each level range will share the NEXT level range's loot tier. So you can hunt at your current level for any gear you currently need, and for slvage and cash; ewhen you are ready to start prepping for the next tier of mobs, you hunt the highest level of mobs in that tier to start getting loot to prepare yourself for it. Not coincidentally, you start getting lloot for the next tier of mobs when you are approaching the level of the mobs in your current tier that wll actually drop it. The new system makes sense, and it means you wont be as apt to get a wield 300 item when you can barely get into a wield 250 one. That 300 item would be tossed on a mule or in a shop and otherwise uselss to you at your current stage of development.

They are adressing the issue of scroll levels, another major concern in particular to mages, with the March prop. Sing troves may not be THE BEST item sources in the game, but they will be no worse off than they were before the Feb patch. If they are dropping the same quality of loot as before, then they havent been nerfed. Just because there is now going to be something better, that doesnt equate to a nerf.

I agree that I would like to see peas dropping at a better rate. I think my suggestion to change how they are handled in the loot system would do that: make them drop as level-appropriate components, rather than value-to-loot-tier items. They would return to being a good and reliable source of income. But they are not mandatory in order for you to provide yourself with enough cash to supply yourself AND bank some in the process. I am doing it all right now, even without the improvements coming next month.

Scrolls being worth what they cost in the scriveners would certainly be a boon too. But they still save yo umoney if you collect the ones for spell levels you dont have yet. On my nwbie toons on my alt server, i have one mule full of scrolls just waiting for the toons to level into them. A Creature Self 5 scroll that I need still saves me the cash I would have had to spend on it at a scrivener. I just cant sell and extra one for any real cash is all. Would be nice to be able to do so, but it STILL saves me money regardless. When my newbie mage hit lvl 5 spell level, I was able to learn over half of her spells for free because I had them saved from looting. Same thing when my melee hit lvl 5s. No matter how you look at it, thats money I didnt have to pay a scrivener for the same spells.

All in all, the loot changes laid out in the LttP are what I predicted they would be. Seems to me that confirms what I have said multiple times and received a bunch of lip and flames over. All those insults and accusations of being a Turbine fanboy--despite the fact I also stated my own dissatisfaction on many points--have been proven baseless. But I doubt I will see any apologies for it.

the ravs I hunt on my lvl 39 mage drop lvl 2-3 loot. who hunting ravs uses lvl2-3 loot? oh wait we have to wait for months for them to drop lvl 5-6 loot if they ever will. Right now I am picking up and selling junk that is unusable for anyone over lvl 20 and getting MAYBE 30k for 1 1/2 packs of this junk.

my lvl 39 mage and my lvl 126 mage are losing money on every run unless I go to specific areas and hunt specific baddies.

Xantcha

03-02-2004, 11:09 PM

"You all really do sound like spoilt little brats who cannot get their own way."

I'm sorry, but you have very little idea what you are talking about. What if, for example, Turbine instead posted that the maximum value for loot was now 3k? Or that plats would now cost 250k? Or that UCMs were now allowed again? There would be just as much of an uproar from your camp, and it would be just as justified as this. Simply because you aren't personally affected by the problems doesn't mean that they don't affect a *lot* of people.

Helbereth

03-02-2004, 11:11 PM

"Starting in April, creatures that are designed for characters within 5 levels of a difficulty break will have the treasure intended for the next highest difficulty. For example, creatures that are intended to be fought by level 36 characters will have loot intended for characters from 40 to 60."
-----------------------------------
Ok if I take that into account does it mean thet if I'm a level 96 Mage and I decide to take on a lv 100 Drudge that there's a chance I could find level 100+ loot? How about a level 110, 120 or 130 monster?

-----------------------------------

In PvM I've always used S2H VII (Rushed Recovery) since I can take my Mage's 80 health and use his 477 stamina to bring it back to 346(max) in 1 cast while still having enough stamina remaining to refill my mana bar. So it won't effect me on that front.

In PvP there's a much greater urgency for getting that health back. A melee weapon - as stated above - can inflict 140 damage or more in a single hit. If you take into account the amount of time between strikes - which is quicker than spellcasting regardless of power level - the mage only has mere seconds to regain health and break away long enough to put out an offensive. That 346 health becomes 206, 130, 70, dead rather quickly.

If you force mages to use a level 5 spell in PvP(which doesn't take 7-10 seconds, but is still an eternity in a heated situation), and make it possible to debuff the mage's armor (which is a secondary vuln that a mage cannot inflict on the melee), the mage has virtually no chance of survival. That same 346 health quickly drops to 150, 20, dead. I'm not sure about you but I'm pretty sure a melee can strike 3 times at full, half, and half power quicker than a mage can S2H V. The mage would either spend all his time healing, die immediately, try to run and die or just type /die and click 'y' before the melee gets there. Conversely it will make using physical attacks boring for the melee since it will be far too easy to topple what was once a formidable opponent.

Turbine has a lot of problems. Most of them seem to involve the higher reasoning and problem solving centers of their collective brains...

Drakul

03-02-2004, 11:11 PM

The best way for us to be heard is by actualy contacting them. SO LETS JUST BOG THEIR PHONE AND FAX SYSTEMS.

Here is turbine's contact info

Turbine Entertainment Software
60 Glacier Drive, Suite 4000
Westwood, MA 02090

PHONE: 781-407-4000
FAX: 781-329-5463

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CONTACT THESE PEOPLE SINCE THEY ARE THE ONES IN CHARGE OF THE GAME THEY MAKE THE FINAL DECISION ON THIS GAME

Nabs

03-02-2004, 11:12 PM

I am going to vote with the loudest voice I have, I am cancelling accounts.

Drakul

03-02-2004, 11:13 PM

2 accounts canceled
2 left

fanatic_j

03-02-2004, 11:14 PM

In reference to "fixing" jump-spin, I would like to suggest something factored into a "critical hit" that breaks sticky melee for some short duration. This would allow archers and mages especially to "break free" and run, reposition, heal, etc.

Lutieus

03-02-2004, 11:15 PM

SCM's signature:

Opinion.
I have mine & you have yours.
We are all entitled to have one.

Follow your own damn advice.

Vorth

03-02-2004, 11:19 PM

You all wonder why the devs have made few posts regarding the PvP changes, but I think I can understand why they havn't. Most of this thread is flame after flame with few of them giving any well thought out reasons for why these are bad. I can tell you that I would not want to be the one to jump in and try and keep up with all of you yelling about this, complaining about that. This is our game and I know many of you feel very strongly about it, but you have to realize that this is their job, their income - and I truly believe they do not want this game to fail.

I have talked to many people about this patch who have also played this game for 3+ years and they believe that the game is going in the right direction. Yes, there have been some hard times, and things are going to be a little different. But if Turbine is going to try to bring new life into this game, I believe these changes are needed. We are the old, the veterans who are set in our ways, not wanting change. Change is what will bring this game the new life that it needs. You may not see it now, but Turbine is only trying to fix what has been wrong for so very long.

Aside from the PvP aspect of the game, many have complained about the fellowship quests. I love AC for many reasons and one of them is being able to go out and thrive on my own. Just because they add a quest here and there that requires us to fellow and work together does not mean we can no longer solo.

Dealing with the loot, I must say that at first I was mad at the fact that I didn't start hunting for majors a bit sooner, hehe - But that's how it goes. From the looks of it, it seems to me that once the loot upgrades are done it will work very much in our favor, and I can't wait to see what you have planned for the higher levels later on.

I have played this game for 4 years, hours upon hours and I will not quit because I am a unhappy with a few things in a patch. I believe most people who cancel their account were looking for someone to force them to quit. They were ready to leave Dereth, and so Turbine gives them something to blame.

Yes, there are those who do not agree with this patch, but I will assure you that they are many who believe in what Turbine is doing for the good of our game - It is just that many of those people are playing the game or unwilling to get inolved with all this mess. I dought this is the last of the changes that will anger some and bring back old blood at the same time. This is not the end.

Change must happen for things to grow and continue, that is how it has been and will continue to be. For those to say, listen to the players they know what they want. I would hate to think what our world would be like if everyone got their way.

Just my 2 pyreals.

Sabu

03-02-2004, 11:19 PM

Sylph i've seen you going on and on about how you find enough loot. Please share! You can trust me ; I dont play on TD.

Saratoga

03-02-2004, 11:20 PM

I still hate you guys.

Lion-O

03-02-2004, 11:21 PM

You guys are geniuses. Thanks for deleting my posts.

GraceMolloy

03-02-2004, 11:22 PM

What if, for example, Turbine instead posted that the maximum value for loot was now 3k? Or that plats would now cost 250k?

like the children's tale says, the diligent ones who save up during the plentiful times do just fine during the cold harsh winter. And the lazy grasshopper starves to death :D

So those of us that invested our time and wealth wisely have nothing to fear except people asking for a handout.

Lenin

03-02-2004, 11:23 PM

14 pages in a little over 4 hours, damn good Turbine. ;)

ts383

03-02-2004, 11:23 PM

somewhere in the neighborhood of 120+ accounts from DT have been cancelled, meaning over $1200 /mo will be lost...M$ might have been able to watch the money walk out the door, but not Turbine.

Toxeus

03-02-2004, 11:23 PM

As it is now it smacks of the AC2 release and all the changes that were made ( and still being made) and all of the heartache and bad feelings over it. Actually, if the sweeping changes continue, the heartache and bad feelings will be MUCH worse. Most AC players have years invested in this game, not just months or weeks.

MIdnightFire7

03-02-2004, 11:29 PM

Turbine,

1) *Please, don’t take these changes as an indication that we are removing Asheron’s Call’s soloability! The ability to advance while playing alone is one of Asheron’s Call’s strengths, and we have no intention of removing it. However, in certain special circumstances or for specific quests, we may use these new features to ensure that the quest be tackled by a group of players.* From March Letter to the Players.

So those of us who solo hunt cant do this quest unless we happen to know someone else to go threw it with us. Nice. Your forcing us to fellow and not solo hunt as we chose to get a quest item..if the item is worth getting.

2) Since your nerfing the ammount of peas that drop what are you gonna make drop for Archers and Mages who dont have alot of strength? Anything? Are we expected to have someone who has alot of strength make money for us?

3) I dont PvP much. Maybe once every 2 or 3 months. I do not like the new PvP changes.

well theres my 2p worth.

Emeritus

03-02-2004, 11:30 PM

http://dual.50megs.com/Subscriptionpwned.jpg

yeah if only they had released the LttP yesterday =[

Gordian

03-02-2004, 11:34 PM

On the loot issue.

Thank you for listening to and admitting the negative feedback. One of the things I most hopeful about is the future change you are adding for creatures 5 levels below the next grouping.

Although you didn't mention this specifically, I hope this will mean that I can get loot-category-6 items from the toughest content in the 80+ areas.

Since my lvl 100+ toons can't solo much of Caul or any of VoD this will hopefully allow me to get the good loot again.

I will likely reactivate my accounts if this pans out though the XP changes still leave a sour taste.

Pure

03-02-2004, 11:37 PM

Thats kinda funny how you say they shouldn't listen to the players.

You think good sport teams don't listen to the fans? come one you very well know a good team will have a bigger fan base then a none winning team, its logic.

Either turbine do something about this or you can say bye bye to ac and pking, I know most monarchies are quiting and so is everyone else, ever monarchies vassels and followers are canceling, everyone on DT will be gone, damn thats great lose a huge chuck of profits because of some stupid lame patch they took advise on from pkl people because you didn't listen to the true players the DT players.

This is not beta, you do not make changes this bad without even having a feel on the players thoughts and views.

Only good business sense is listen to the customer.

Now the best thing to do is just don't even come out with a patch this month or come out with one later when things get answered before you place any patch.

Seems like you guys don't watch the player base on DT much, and listen to PKL people that have no sense on what DT is, just remember we are on DT they are on some whiteserver.

Just like hockey, you think the ref will call a play thats on the other side of the rink when they have one on the play?

Same goes for DT and whiteservers, same damn sense and I think we diserve a response soon.

If this goes through my 3 will be canceled, and I bet the one I am lvling up for a friend will be canceled to.

So all in all you will end up losing huge money and most likely firing someone because they never got any insight of whats right and wrong for DT, thats a big chuck out of a company trying to make money.

Just put it this way, the last patch was bad enough, now you are making it even worse.

Once things get this bad its almost better to get out then stick around to get shafted worse and sucked into another month of $13 a month for one account and saving 13 on 4 per month is alot of money per customer.

Nabs

03-02-2004, 11:41 PM

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malevolentmage

03-02-2004, 11:41 PM

mark an 'i quit' down for me.

NiSSe

03-02-2004, 11:44 PM

i know for sure i am going to e-mail / fax / mail the adminitstaation of turbine tomorrow cause that migth wake up those stupid developers when there boss start to beat them in there head allso. i never seen anythink more stupid that this not even when they ruined UO and had all pvp's leave there servers

Solarch_Arcar

03-02-2004, 11:46 PM

The whole debuffing or armour is so STUPID!

You might as well gave us weepings in the first month of playing on DT. This is like bringing nukes to the 12th century!

Sabu

03-02-2004, 11:47 PM

pkl is still gonna feel this. Doubt very many mages will pkl then. Pity though... On DT its impossible to "safely" hunt.

Solarch_Arcar

03-02-2004, 11:51 PM

The whole debuffing or armour is so STUPID!

You might as well gave us weepings in the first month of playing on DT. This is like bringing nukes to the 12th century!

Oh and this change will affect everyone and not just Mages. Weepings ignore shields, so melee's AND archers will be totally screwed over, just as much as mages.

EDIT: Added other reply to this post because i have top of page.

ElronOfDarktide

03-02-2004, 11:51 PM

Why would you "make up" new pk fixes while ignoring the ones people ask for?????

You are "focusing on chests" but all you are changing is the scrolls + bonuses from sing loot???? Last patch you changed like 1000000 things about the loot.... this patch.. just those 2 things about sing loot? I guess mohog and marble chests will be ubar now???

I think this will be the worst patch ever.

Why don't you add a gem timer for Gems of stillness use while pk flagged? There is overwhelming support for this idea.... you mention gems.. but i heard you ask someone why they thought this would go in ... It has OVERWHELMING support and desire to have it implemented.

Why dont you make it so you can't "repeatedly" jump spin. and instead make it so you CAN jump spin to "escape" but not OVER AND OVER. Then it would be skill based..... like you want.... but still able to be used to escape... like you want. Make it so GOING TO ZERO stam from jump spinning actually makes it so the melee can attach....

Elron

`Lita

03-02-2004, 11:58 PM

Powered by our fans? U folks dont have very many fans atm. Turbine has really Efffffd up this game ever since they took over. Promising a new server, new grafix engine, n fer what? Not to back it up or even say anything about it. Then they have the SACK to up the Efffing price. They WILL go broke rather quickly. I have 3 accts n all 3 are going POOF. Tnx Turbine fer ****! U guys really know how to Eff up what WAS a really good game.

aeroliticus

03-03-2004, 12:01 AM

I just want to know where are all the players that complained so much about low level transfer spells that it had be changed.

Some overly linear concept that low level spells should only be useful to low level players is just plain misguided and goes against the rich complexity that makes Asheron’s Call interesting to play.

I thought the difference in speed is what made the lower level spells a useful part of a mages spell book and we always hear AC is a skill based game and not a level based game so why start making generalizations about how things should be based on level?

Just give me a way to cast level 6 and 7 spells as fast as level ones (new wand mods?) and I’d see it as a balanced change instead of what it seems to be.

The solution to cash strapped mages would be to make sure good peas are in the loot profile sooner rather than later, like... this patch.
Maybe this would be a good time to make prismatic taper peas available in the loot system too.

/rant off

Lion-O

03-03-2004, 12:02 AM

At this point it seems clear to me that they raised the price of AC because they were expecting to lose alot of subscriptions. Makes perfect sense now in hindsight. Just raise the price to make up for the people they pi55 off and make the people who are happy pay for it.

Blau

03-03-2004, 12:05 AM

You guys are insane.

Before you allowed Mages to debuff weeping weapons, we were just screwed. Giving us the ability to debuff weepings didn't imbalance things, it restored balance. That month after you introduced the weeping changes and while we couldn't debuff them, we mages spent the whole month just running away from gank squads. Even in 1:1 situations, it was difficult.

The problem is that PvP isn't mostly about 1:1. It's mostly about Many:Many. What ends up happening is you don't end up fighting one guy - you end up fighting a group. Even if it's just 2:1, a mage is going to be hosed.

Killer_threat

03-03-2004, 12:05 AM

Crazy............. absolutly crazy.

Just take mages out of the game, they are obviously nothing anymore due to the fact we haven't got jack in like 6 months.
Swords and other melees can hit for 40-60+ in buffed fully tinkered armor, and crit for over 100...... and same with archers BUT they hit on lowest power. So it's basically fighitng a machine gun. I luckly have missile so I get some kind of helping tool that makes them shoot at 25% accuracy....

Aegis for archers? Most ridiculous thing I've heard. You know why. They already get GSC and ****. If mages run around in that stuff melees and archers hit for even crazier dmgs. Like 160 crits.

Getting rid of S/H 1.... Just make things one shot mages.

More damage for toons not with sword? Why! they didn't choose sword, they're dicision, so screw em.

Debuff armor.....Another death wish for mages and somewhat archers. Melees can just whip out a different weapon everytime and hit u once with debuffed armor, 5 weepings = 5 shots because they buff when taken out.

Arc words getting changed? Helping melees and archers again, they know when they can run in circles to dodge arcs, or slide to dodge bolts. Not hard to dodge then.

Solution, make my Mage a Sword toon plz, he's obviously gonna get ripped up by a meleer half his level soon. Even an archer. Or make war and **** less to train and spec. Let us have higher skills. GIVE US LEVEL 8's! Melee's so far have all they're damages uped severel times, and same with archers and the dmg mod. Mages have been stuck with 7's for years now. Not one thing uped. Allow mages to have a thing to help defend against physical dmg.

Sigh PK ruined, back to Call of Duty.

Adagio

03-03-2004, 12:07 AM

max level axer against 381 armor 247 crit with bait thx have a nice day

Saratoga

03-03-2004, 12:09 AM

Call of Duty... Good game. The devs actually listen to their customers.

`Lita

03-03-2004, 12:11 AM

And still NO EFFFING response from anyone from Turbine C'mon. they must know we are pissed

SCM

03-03-2004, 12:13 AM

Originally posted by Lutieus
SCM's signature:

Follow your own damn advice.

And where have I said noone is permitted to have an opinion?

Please show me & I will publicly apologise & correct the post.

Deven-Kenyon

03-03-2004, 12:16 AM

IBN:

I have not read all of the posts here, 15 pages of mostly pk whining is a lot, so if someone has already asked, and it has been answered, pardon me. But will you at least be making the 100+ area larger and accessible to solo players as it is to groups of fellows? I like a good fight as much as anyone, but 6 or more k'nath's would be a bit much for "one" person to handle. Especially those solo players that do not have life magic spec’d or a high enough trained life to land a vuln.

I’d also like to know a bit more about Sing Troves. By “lowering” them a level, does that mean 100+ loot will get a boost and sings will go back to the way they were before Feb’s disaster patch, or will they stay relatively the same, i.e., level 6 scrolls, crappy loot, and not even a minor let alone a major?

If I want level 6 scrolls, I’ll go to AB and purchase them. The troves should bestow something that cannot be gotten from the shops. Having level 7’s was stretching it a bit. Seemed kind of fruitless to have sik chests yet still loot 5 or more level 7 scrolls from the troves per pull.

What I’m really hoping is that the sing trove was a victim of an incomplete makeover that’ll be put back to the way they were or made just a bit better.

Thanks for reading, and I sure as heck wouldn’t want to be behind your keyboard during these changing times. I truly admire your level of restraint in lieu of some of these posts.

Zeds

03-03-2004, 12:18 AM

they havent fixed , or even admitted that they screwed up the loot from the last patch yet, and they are messing up PvP now ( i dont PvP)

I gave them til my subscriptions go inactive to fix what they messed up last patch.

account one is inactive effective tomorrow , its cash revenue will be forever lost to AC/Turbine effective tomorrow.

account 2 goes inactive on the 14th , you get the idea.

my sons acounts will be lost too because I will not pay for them and he isnt financially able to

Everyone , simply unsubscribe and do not resubscribe until one month AFTER they have fixed these problems , perhaps then they will think before destroying the playability / fun of this game.

I go forth now to spread word of how Turbine doesnt listen to the playerbase and how the whole "powered by the players" theme is just BS

Adagio

03-03-2004, 12:21 AM

I don't know what i am going to do with my time then **** thats 28 bucks more i get to spend WOOT

Pure

03-03-2004, 12:21 AM

See these are the things that needs to be answered.

-Why the hell take out s2h when its something we need.

- to tell a melee what we are casting is worse, why? well lets see, a melee with magic d speclized agis shield and wards = lucky to hit him for over 80.

Oh take into account the melee can swing faster then our lvl 7's can cast, 2:1 ratio, with the melee hitting for 100's.

now the BP ****, thisi s way out of hand.

Oh then you have UA people with a weeping come up as you loather he puts it into his inventory, which causes weapon not in range, then the melee pulling it out again and wack yea few more times and etc.

You gota put in timered for weapons being wielded, I think this is **** if we get screwed with stamina jump lose same principal.

All you should do this patch is fix the damn loot to what it was, whats wrong, us Dter's know what we want and we where happy till you started to get your idiotic thoughts on this ****, like really.

Deven-Kenyon

03-03-2004, 12:25 AM

Pure go back a few pages and read what alltu true had to say regarding melee's being able to cast on a mage. It made sense to me, why are the DT people so up in arms?

robthehand

03-03-2004, 12:25 AM

i will be canceling my account if these new changes go into effect. in your lettert you say ac is a skill based game. why take all the skill out of it with these new changes?

Lilkinsly

03-03-2004, 12:32 AM

Ok I calmed down a little, and thought about it some. I can understand now why you think it may be "fair" that now a mage would need to watch for somebody brittlemailing or baiting his armor. I can see how you may think that.

Here is why you are wrong.

If I am BLing a melee's weapon, if he is slow in pulling it away, he can switch to another weapon, or wait it out. It doesn't get him killed, it simply cuts down on his offense.

If the mage is slow, he is dead. Crits are being reports of 270+, you can't live through that, even with normal hits of 100.

Plus, let's look at group fights.

A mage somewhere starts casting BL. The melee's can keep their weps out, or pull them in. Either way they still live.

Now if somebody starts casting Bait or Brittle, the mage has no choice. He cant take his armor off, if somebody hits him with it off he is dead. Keeps it on, it gets debuffed.

Dead, not reduced offensivly, or an option to wait it out, dead.

Adagio

03-03-2004, 12:33 AM

you have never made a sword char on dt when you say a sword cant' land on a mage

dt sword chars 100strength 100 focus 100 willpower = High item and magic d as a mage + the account of critting for 120-150 + new system criting for 200+ = dead mages everywhere

Adagio

03-03-2004, 12:35 AM

its gonna take me exacty 18 weeks to change over to a sword

Helbereth

03-03-2004, 12:37 AM

Fellowship quests might work if the servers could be counted on for stability. Big quests suck enough already without making them completely frustrating by adding "You get booted, you lose, try again in 2 weeks" to the mix.

Change isn't necessary, it's inevitable.

Inevitability is liable.

Liability is a question of perspective.

My perspective is that this patch will suck.

Deven-Kenyon

03-03-2004, 12:39 AM

The smart thing would be to just get a cov or olthoi 80 BP *shrug*

Why all the stink? Above poster mentioned skill, well would one not need more skill to wield and un-wield their bp/berk etc when they notice a melee with his wand out? Or simply shoot the lil bugger with an arc. geesh. I don't get it, sorry

GraceMolloy

03-03-2004, 12:42 AM

people will have 15 mins to get back into the fellow. they already said that .. and Frankly if you are on a quest I run I will wait up to 10 mins .. if you're not back I will leave you behind.

Nuff' Said

Lutieus

03-03-2004, 12:44 AM

Why all the stink? Above poster mentioned skill, well would one not need more skill to wield and un-wield their bp/berk etc when they notice a melee with his wand out? Or simply shoot the lil bugger with an arc. geesh. I don't get it, sorry

Wielding and unwielding only works in duels. Which are rare at best on DT--most of our fights are group raids. Shooting wars wouldn't do much good, as they're quite easy to dodge from any significant distance, and a meleer attempting to brittlemail/lure would surely put some space between himself and a mage he's casting upon.

Nerice

03-03-2004, 12:49 AM

Ok, have having went back and watched TV for a while rather than log in to actually play AC I will try to comment sensibly.

It has been a while since I have pk'ed, and I have never pkl'ed. Due to the fact there is no risk, or rush from pkl.

This is about pk only, and more or less about the pkl changes.

You have tried to balance all classes, you have come close to acheiving that. While doing that you have taken into consideration that not being able to brittlemail/lure worn armor into account.

No I know its only one piece, and to help counter that now melee's must swing high, with a slower animation to help bring it back into balance.

That will not work to help balance it, because of the higher amount of damage that is going to be done due to the brittlemail/lure.

Personally, I really take these changes as a small scale test for the new buffing system you want to implement. If that is the case, it is wrong, dead wrong to do so.

Why would I care if I dont pk much at all?

Because this is a game I like, enjoy, and love. I honestly see some of the changes as being a threat to the survivability of the game. The less subscribers you have, the more likely you are to have to shut down/merge servers. Not because of the change in and of themselves.

Lets face it, between the new loot changes, armor debuffing changes, and transfer spells, you are changing aspects of basic gameplay we have all been accustomed to. Some of the basic gameplay of why people have been so loyal to to you.

I know you think some stuff is broke, parts of the loot gen I whole heartedly agree was broke.

You are making very large and sweeping changes at too fast of a rete. The game we play next month, will be nothing like the game we played two months ago, with no time to adjust to them. These changes are in BASIC gameplay. Not something that was just added, the way gameplay has been for mostly the entire history of AC.

If you intend to make these changes, no matter what the players say, I ask you to slow them down. The loot changes are already being done. There is no way not to continue and finish them off.

Put the brittlemail/lure, and transfer spell changes on the back burner for a little bit longer.

Forcing groups is not a route you want to go down. Many people I talk to, that is one of the biggest single reasons they prefer AC over any other MMORPG.

Pure

03-03-2004, 12:50 AM

Plain and simple a melee has the ability to kill a mage 1 vs 1.

The other thing is when you hit a melee they always have that damn agis shield out that cuts down alot of war damage and wards with that = imposible, let alone with magic d speclized and they have max focus and self and started with 100 in both its kinda hard.

When sword only costs 8 and war 16 makes no sense, skill creidts where based on overall skill power.

Things where ballanced but not they just screwed up the game worse.

Jack Sparrow

03-03-2004, 12:51 AM

altering the transfers is a bad idea. Then again u guys are fulll of half wit ideas lately.

Alltu_Tru

03-03-2004, 12:52 AM

if the melee puts space to cast, the mage has time to put away his bp without fear of getting hit ;)

there WILL be ways found (and a lot already have been mentioned) to work with the new system

Saratoga

03-03-2004, 12:54 AM

Good luck getting them to listen to you.

Lutieus

03-03-2004, 12:56 AM

if the melee puts space to cast, the mage has time to put away his bp without fear of getting hit ;)

I fear you miss the point....That would work in 1v1 fights, but in anything beyond that, unequipping isn't an option. The majority of fighting on DT is done in group raids, so by and large unequipping simply will not be viable.

Sabu

03-03-2004, 12:57 AM

Ya... make a melee

Helbereth

03-03-2004, 12:59 AM

Dev do you Pk at all? Observe PKs or anything to that effect?

The vulning stage in a battle is the safest few seconds. Neither competitors are shooting anything at or attacking the other. And it's just as easy to evade wars while casting item debuffs as it is to evade while vulning.

The mage isn't going to be landing any wars on the melee in the vuln stage unless he just stands there and tanks it (an act of blatant stupidity). Now with that said, the melee finally produces his weapon. The mage, by now, is firing off wars trying to catch him between animations, but some good 'c' and 'z' skills easily dodge the wars.

The mage is now vulned, imperiled and has brittlemail - and perhaps even a bait or 2 for good measure - on his BP. In an attempt to counteract this, the mage might try tossing blood loather on the melee's weapon. This merely reduced the damage back to the weapon's base - unbuffed - level, which is still very damaging even without the brittlemail.

The actual battle ensues and the mage scores a hit on the melee, who quickly recovers using a well timed healing kit.

Frustrated, the mage continues throwing wars as the melee darts around - toying with the prey - avoiding wars and quickly healing if any damage is incurred.

Now the melee begins taking an offensive stance, circling the mage forcing him to turn when he shoots to open up a window for a full power swing of the weapon.

The mage changes tactics and uses some spread shots to do some damage and push the melee away.

Quickly healing, and undaunted by the lightshow, the melee resumes his attack landin g a critical hit. In one attack he cut the mage's health in half with a powerful blow to the chest.

The mage sputters and begins casting S2H V. The spell kicks un just as his health drops to 40, renewing his health to 320. Unfortunately the melee is still attacking. He fires a bolt... 240, 160, 90... and causes 200 points of damage. He starts casting S2H V again... 30... dead...

The melee exits melee mode and heals back to his normal 280 health, loots if he feels like it, then continues on whatever he was doing.

The mage hits the lifestone like a rock where he starts working off his vitae penalty on Umbris Shadows. As he Sets a Panumbris smoldering before him, he sees the message "The Spell Brittlemail VI on your Bronze Amuli Coat has expired." Followed by "The Spell Slashing Lure VI on your Bronze Amuli Coat has expired."...

Khao

03-03-2004, 01:06 AM

^^^^^
time to rest khao the mage and go with plasma'golem the sword =(

Adagio

03-03-2004, 01:06 AM

^
that is the best thing i have ever read
*bow*

Khao

03-03-2004, 01:07 AM

Originally posted by Sabu
Ya... make a melee

do i see wintersebb in your sig, OH My i do!!! come to dt and try to lvl a melee THEN tell us to make one

Aerichk

03-03-2004, 01:08 AM

Why are the devs evading all questions pertaining to PK/L changes, but answering loot questions? ive us what the 17 pages want, PK/L answers.

Deven-Kenyon

03-03-2004, 01:10 AM

I've went red once in my entire ac life, so no, I do not PK. As for pkl, I like to kill my vassals, does that count?

Seriously though, I DO love watching pk's fight, but it is a turn off with the excessive language and bad tempers about. I certainly would never consider ever going to DT perma. And I do understand you all are upset, but rather than pull off childish stunts like trying to take down care bear servers, and all out attacking the game creators/designers, find other alternatives to make your point. The game will always change, for the better or for the worse is one person’s opinion verses another's. But to make this much commotion over it is a bit much. I also understand DT has had a couple rough months, but they have had it pretty good most of the time. Mages have been catered to far more than any other player character in this game, no matter what the world they play on, and now that they're taken down a peg, as what most of you believe, you guys go crazy.

I'm just as unhappy as the next person with the past patch, and I rarely log in these days if just to conclude auction trades or help vassals with CR's or quests. There is no enjoyment anymore for me. I loved hunting solo, and I loved doing it around the outskirts of VOD, but now those area's as well as most have been (imo) changed for the worse.

But I keep the faith that the designers will even it all out in the end, how much patience we'll all be left with remains debatable. I won't cancel my accounts just yet, at least give them a chance and TRY the changes before you attack (not you personally).

Just my two py