Loot Generated Wands vs Weapons

[Kane99]

Why is it that x10 tinkered wands do crap damage, where as x10 tinkered swords/UAs are what melees must use to kill?

Green Garnet should add +3% damage, or allow for a Human Slayer Imbue.

PvP is so lame, long, and drawn out.

[Mythrandia]

I agree Oo

[Pasky]

War mages are pretty powerful as it is. The only class that can one hit (Tugak). Just about every top PK player is a war mage. I can't comment on the damage wands do though, I don't have a mage.

[Bealzebuv]

Elite pks mages are best hands down for alot of reasons.
1v1 they are able to fight any kind of character and the very best mages beat all.
They fight odds better then all.Melees cant really fight odds ( except a few people with tugak) Only mages kill with tugak i smiled irl lol.

[Passing-Time]

Some quick personal opinions on Pvp as it is now:

(1) Mages are the template that made this game. It is the only template in this game that is unique from any other character type in other MMOs. Throwing lighting bolts, cold arcs, and other spells is not what is unique. Its the skill it takes to slide during cast effectively enough to dodge other wars that makes this template unique. I am sure if any other game were to purchase rights to any part of AC when things are finally done it would be the movement system only. Because that is the part of this game that takes skill to control.

(2) Melees/archers are extremely overpowered considering the lack of credits spent to build a template. Sure melees needed a bit more power then they had back in the day, but what they have now is far to much. Endless quest items and imbues to add to their weapons makes them nearly impossbile to kill. Assuming the person playing the melee has no idea how to play. Melees/archers simply run around a mage (whos wars are very easy to dodge when in fact your not casting a spell in sequence w/ the mage) and wait for CB crits and chugg non stop in the meantime.

To address this post a bit closer...a Human Slayer property would serve no purpose except to promote inepting in game more then it already has been. I can see the only advantage to having a human slayer property on a wand would but a wand w/ melee defense. Sure at first thought this seems great. However once the wand is debuffed, its no different then wielding a weeping wand. With that being said it would phase out the use of a weeping wand all together. Why use that in a mage v mage fight when you could use a wand that has Human slayer prop and a ele bonus.

What needs to be addressed is the aegis bonus that melees and archers hide behind to no end. I would propose an AEGIS IMPALING property. It wouldn't completely penetrate the aegis property but it would make a signfigant difference. Perhaps on par w/ the damage a war would normally cause on a melee w/o an aegis...but the mage wielding a wand other then weeping. If that makes any sense. This way two wars and a streak would be a gauranteed kill on a melee w/ 450 HP and full wards. If a mage choose to keep PvPing with the weeping wand the melee would benefit from the full protection from the aegis.

Also to make sure that this AEGIS IMPALING property is not overpowered a secondary special property(s) would also be added to the wand upon application.
(1) A -200% to melee defense property....an automatic debuff reducing melee defense to 0....
(2) COMPLETELY removing the melee D property
(3) Unenchantable
(4) Mana con buff

[Kane99]

Green Garnet on loot generated items needs to be addressed.

CB crits do less than Weeping crits. CS average hits do less than Weeping hits.

Yet, weeping swords/UA's do less than loot generated, fully tinkered, weapons.


I'm thinking, that because Weeping Weapons are shield hollow, then Weeping Wands should be Aegis hollow.

I'm not trying to say it's impossible to kill melees, I'm saying it may be the most boring process I've ever experienced in my life aside from sitting through a 3 hour Calculus class.

Turbine messed up PvP when they increased everyones Health by 80 points, while leaving the damage, with the exception of CB Swords, basically untouched.

Like I said before, PvP is too long, drawn out, and a bore fest since ToD.

[Kane99]

To address this post a bit closer...a Human Slayer property would serve no purpose except to promote inepting in game more then it already has been. I can see the only advantage to having a human slayer property on a wand would but a wand w/ melee defense.

People wouldn't be tinkering the melee bonus on a loot generated wand to get it's full PvP effect, they'd be tinkering the Green Garnet.

Even a max wand of +15 base melee would not even matter vs a melee, especially with Ash/Salt Pages.

[Passing-Time]

People wouldn't be tinkering the melee bonus on a loot generated wand to get it's full PvP effect, they'd be tinkering the Green Garnet.

Even a max wand of +15 base melee would not even matter vs a melee, especially with Ash/Salt Pages.

Tinkering Green garnet on a wand gives 19+7...whatever it is...it wouldn't be a very big increase to really make an effect in PvP. There really is no point in my arguing about this..because this is not the point I was trying to get across in my post.

The true problem w/ mage vs Melee/archer is the fact that Melee/archer have a benefit of the aegis affect. Adding human slayer to a wand that gave you a 50% ele damage increase (impossible) would probably be what it would take to notice any difference through an aegis. The problem here is the aegis affect...and the fact that mages have no way of getting through that (a mages defense = shield....melees just use hollow).

Above someoen posted that weeping should be aegis hollow. Id say no....I think weeping should be the pref weapon in mage vs mage...but I don't think it should be granted such an affect (aegis hollow) because it is pretty simple to get.

Like I posted the first time I'll restate my idea not to be bias...but I and alot of my friends think this is a pretty good solution. But like any idea could use imput to tweak it....

Aegis Impaler (hollow)

*A quest like undead/mukkir slayer...which requires a player to make some type of an effort to gain it. And also makes wand only wieldable by the person who did the quest..and put it on a month's timer.

* Adds the following special properties: Aegis Impaler; Melee Mod removal; -100% melee defense skill d buff; unenchantable; Mana con mod buff

note: I left out the ele dmg bonus buff....but that could be tweaked along with the amount it cut through the aegis protection to make it fair...not overpowering.

I think its fair to assume 2 wars and a streak should kill any melee considering a sword char swings full power slightly faster then a mage casts a war...2 cb crits and another swing would = death to any mage.

[Kane99]

Tinkering Green garnet on a wand gives 19+7...whatever it is...it wouldn't be a very big increase to really make an effect in PvP. There really is no point in my arguing about this..because this is not the point I was trying to get across in my post.

You can only get +4.8% vs Players on a x10 Tinkered, Imbued Wand, and +6.5% buffed. If Green Garnet were to add double or triple the damage, then a damage increase against other players would be very noticeable.


Above someoen posted that weeping should be aegis hollow. Id say no....I think weeping should be the pref weapon in mage vs mage...but I don't think it should be granted such an affect (aegis hollow) because it is pretty simple to get.

The Weeping Wand, and any Weeping weapon, is more of a task than getting the Aegis...Now if the Aegis actually was a hard quest I probably wouldn't mind.

[Midgar]

Mages are still the most powerful class ig if you are really skilled at it. If I meet a mage that can break animation and drag me around I'm pretty much screwed unless I get incredibly lucky. The damage on melee weapons isn't overpowered, all the people who whine just have crap armor. For 28 credits though I find it pretty hard to believe on the crap damage that mages do against melees, the bigger problem is most melees just back off after getting hit by even one war and heal instantly. I've even seen some backup 3/4 of a radar away just to heal heh. Although if I fight a melee like that I'll just pull a shield and start tugaking, it's really the only way to kill melees like that.

[Pimpinsins]

It should be all about the quest weapon's for pvp that way I have something to fight over.


Quest items being best=something to fight over in AC

[Kane99]

Mages are still the most powerful class ig if you are really skilled at it. If I meet a mage that can break animation and drag me around I'm pretty much screwed unless I get incredibly lucky. The damage on melee weapons isn't overpowered, all the people who whine just have crap armor. For 28 credits though I find it pretty hard to believe on the crap damage that mages do against melees, the bigger problem is most melees just back off after getting hit by even one war and heal instantly. I've even seen some backup 3/4 of a radar away just to heal heh. Although if I fight a melee like that I'll just pull a shield and start tugaking, it's really the only way to kill melees like that.

Mages are still the most powerful...but melees are almost if not near as powerful for 1/2 the credits. And now I hear they can cast war spells using their weapons?

This thread was to tell that Loot generated wands should be as powerful as loot generated weapons. Melees can escape death so easily and really have no chance of dying, and that should be changed.

[Kane99]

It should be all about the quest weapon's for pvp that way I have something to fight over.


Quest items being best=something to fight over in AC

This was the case when motes/Atlans were introduced, but hasn't been the case since.

Quest generated weapons have only been the 'best' weapon for mages, not melees. They need to make Mages wands more viable in PvP, simple solution.

Everyone talks about lowering Health, getting level 8 spells, etc. Well, upping the bonus that Green Garnet adds would probably be the easiest solution I can think of.

Bottom line.

And Midgar, I'm not saying Mages aren't the most powerful class overall, I'm saying that PvP in general blows because melees do way too much damage(on par with mages and half the cost), and melees can run around and frolick at will and survive and get lucky with 2 undodgeable crits in a row. Silly.

[SilentDrainer]

Mages are still the most powerful...but melees are almost if not near as powerful for 1/2 the credits. And now I hear they can cast war spells using their weapons?

This thread was to tell that Loot generated wands should be as powerful as loot generated weapons. Melees can escape death so easily and really have no chance of dying, and that should be changed.
Have you ever fought a melee with a good PvP template? Something that involves 100 innate focus and spec magic defense. A player like that with full wards and an aegis gets hit for 140 top damage. Melees hit me for 200 damage in al 665 armor, some for 230.

[BG1337]

SD get better armor and use your weeping.

Mages Weeping own vs melee weeps.

665 is good al but 690+ makes a BIG difference imo. Try respecing your temp to react better vs melees. Remember 630al which is crap is only 35 al away from your armor. Your 665 al makes a big difference when fighting melees and using 630 al. Now imagine 693 al armor which is almost 30 more al than what you are wearing. You'll see a difference.

IF you have war spec and melee trained use Weeping in pvp

IF you have meleeD spec 100 coord 50 quick... then you have other options.