Tell us what you think of the December event!

[Ibn]

Use this thread to let us know what you think of our December event, Waking from the Abyss.

[kgober]

Regarding Crafter Stamping, specifically the change from character name to ID for activation purposes, the rollout article says 'These changes affect all pre-existing items as well as newly created items.'.

Does this mean that if you previously used the 'same-name' trick to delete and reroll a character (on a different account no less) without losing your Imbued Helm and Shield of the Simulacra, that you will no longer be able to activate it as of this patch?

Or does it mean that the 'same-name' trick will no longer work from this point forward, regardless of whether the item was crafted before or after this patch?

-ken

[Ibn]

If you used the 'same-name' trick before, the item will still be useable by the character who currently has the name listed on the item.

The 'same-name' trick will no longer work from this point forward.

For example, if you have an Imbued Shield of the Simulacra, the character who currently has the name listed will be able to use it. If you delete the character and create one with the same name after today's patch, he will not be able to use it. If you had done it two days ago, he would be able to use it after the patch.

I think this is clear, but it's still sort of complicated, please ask if there are further questions.

[mjayg]

Were players warned this change was coming?

[Solan]

Nope, not until the worlds were down.

[mjayg]

Ugh.

[Paraduck]

Incidentally, it is important to note that we did not make this change just to prevent the behavior described above. Rather, we are working on long-term plans for some exciting new functionality and we need to standardize how character names are used.That's the best part. =P Hmm, name changing?

[Idhitit]

I think the December event will be great, but I'm still ticked by the weeping weapon changes being added despite a rather negative response to it...

Meh, anyway other than that, another very cool patch (no pun intended)...

[smaweet]

on paraducks topic

deception <3???

[Ibn]

Originally posted by mjayg
Ugh.

I'm not sure why you feel this is a problem... this causes no problems for existing characters. It just means you can't use this loophole in the future.

[Mimir]

I noticed this now that the patch is up
With the option to cast atlans accuracy on weepings,
for the same skill credits weeping Axe now buffs to:
30 - 60 Dam Speed 0
and weeping mace now buffs to:
28.5-57 Dam Speed 0

so I'm thinking a little mace boost might do the trick

[Brader]

This obviously won't come to any surprise to you, but melees are already running for the hills on DT. A couple hours into the patch & bload Loather is already in vogue, and once again melees are pure gimps.

The frustration level for melees is just starting to build into a large crescendo.

How you guys so flagrantly refused to listen to what the players didn't want is way beyond me.

Welcome to MageTide once again.

[Abdula]

Thank you for killing off the ENTIRE MOOD OF AC.

Giant apes

bolts of fire flying around

killing the undead and giant bugs

BUSINESS SUITS?!?!?!

Thanks for bringing in a little bit of what we try to get away from into AC.

Thats what I want to see portaling into marketplace, the same thing I can see by turning on CNN.

Why not add in cars next patch.

I'm going to log in every day now and feel like im playing the sims.

[-Strike-]

I can see some people take a little bit of humor a wee bit too seriously.

[Bad_Seed]

Besides the weeping weapons change, the patch looks good. The only thing I could suggest to you, turbine, is to act upon the decisions of the playerbase. I'm not saying what we want is always feasable in a coding sense, but what I am saying is that you asked what people thought about a few things and they had no problem with anything you were about to implement EXCEPT the weeping weapons change. In our opinion, you ruined something that we felt was great.

In response to you wanting us to test it out, we knew what was going to happen. Mages are going to do what you gave them the power to do, and it results in the old pk balance that everyone has pleaded with you to fix for three years now. Please act on player feedback or do not ask us for it at all. I think you all made a lot of people feel no reason to ever post here again.

upset,
Todd Taylor

[Julian's Touch]

The 'Pimp Suit' looks very good imo , and i will wear it for a long time. And the hat is excelent.

Old robe started to be too old, and except armor, we didn't really had outfit to wear to hang around in Marketplace or so.

[Virindi Clown]

That's my problem with debuffable weeping weapons. It's just frustrating. You have to watch for guys who just click you and cast a spell to disarm your weapon and become powerless for a moment trying to avoid a -22 damage spell to your weapon you cannot do back to them in any form.

It also really changes nothing with group fights, so I just completely do not understand.

Just seems to be frustrating, ruin archers for good, and put melees back where they have been for years in small fighting right when it was looking good.

[DT_Dude007]

What would be nice:

Please at least let us know where you are trying to go with all these changes (like debuffable weeping weapons)...

All this has done is to make alot of (DT) players angry.

If there is a point to these changes (ie something grand happening in the future) Please give us a hint.

Otherwise.. we dont see it getting better.

Thanks for an otherwise good patch.

[Jin Saotome]

LOL! I just fought someone with my weeping weapon! They debuffed it, and I took the stone out of it, put it back and and started beating on them again. I got "WTF! You can't do that, that's cheating!"

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guess everyone who jumped on the "Elemental weeping weapon" bandwagon feels a little silly now, eh?

[Brader]

Originally posted by Jin Saotome
LOL! I just fought someone with my weeping weapon! They debuffed it, and I took the stone out of it, put it back and and started beating on them again. I got "WTF! You can't do that, that's cheating!"

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guess everyone who jumped on the "Elemental weeping weapon" bandwagon feels a little silly now, eh?

And where did you find somebody that was so asleep at the keyboard that they did not heal to full health while you did the above, and then they also were dumb enough to not debuff it AGAIN just as soon as you wipped it out one more time after that excercise in futility?

And BTW: Now that you saw how easy it was for him to make your weapon a noddle cutter, please share with us the technique you used to cause the same effect on his weeping wand.

[sylphia]

The problem in regards to the Weeping Weapons change and apparently ignoring our feedback:

It has been mentioned bfore that the Devs start working a patch approximately 6 weeks or so before its due to go live. For Example, They should be approximately 2 weeks into working on January's patch already. They waited until about 2 weeks before the December patch to announce the change, which means approximately 4 weeks into the process. Pretty much too late to change anything at that point.

Turbine really droppped the ball on this one. What SHOULD have happened was to have asked for feedback a month or 2 prior to when they planned to implement the change...assuming they actually cared about our input and planned to act upon it, that is. Whats the point in asking what we think of an upcoming change, if the feedback comes to late to affect that change? The PKL is a good example. Turbine asked way in advance what we wanted, so they were able to adapt to that. Asking what we think of proposed Weeping Weapon changes 2 weeks before the prop is rather pointless. Might as well not have asked us at all.

Since removing the change from the prop at that point would probably have meant a massive recoding and restesting, etc of the prop, their only choice was to stonewall and try and convince long-standing players of this game that we basically have no clue what we are talking about. We, of course, know better, and our predictions of the results are holding true.

We can't really be upset that Turbine "didn't listen to us". They were pretty well locked in by the time they asked us what we thought. What we CAN be upset about is that Turbine didnt ask us for input on this change when our responses actually would have been useful to them. Hopefully, after we spend the whole month being guinea pigs, they will have the good sense and humility to admit they were wrong and change it back.

I can agree that group battles can get pretty nasty, but the current change to weeping weapons did nothing to aleviate that, and only made 1v1 battles more lopsided than they already were. Find a different solution, Turbine; the one you came up with did nothing to alleviate the problem, and only adds to other ones. I know that finding a way to balance classes that were created to be inherantly different is a difficult task, but its better to change nothing than to change something that aggravates the situation.

Now, all that aside, the rest of the patch seems to be going fairly well. I wish to god that Turbine would get the thumb out of their...ears...and make it easier for Decal to update, though. Everyone knows that Decal is almost an integral part of the game, now. The develpers for these plug-ins "fill a niche" to quote a Turbine Dev from a couple years back. They make it possible for you to put certain features on the back burner, as long as we can get them via plug-ins. So quit making it so hard for them. Work out something with them, and do what you have to do in order to let them do thier "job". I detest patch day, because the plug-ins I use to remove alot of the tedium in the game simply arent available. Sure, I can lpay without them. I can also type with my feet if i really want to...

[Sidhestorm]

as part of the assassin quest.

I rec'd the gem and the other items, used the gem - and was portaled right back to where I was standing...which was in front of him. Can't seem to get another gem from him.

Not sure if I did something wrong - but sure looks like somehow the actual move provided by the portal gem didn't happen for me.


Sidhestorm
TD

[Avaton]

I'm a level 110 "classic" Battlemage and I almost never PK in any form. It's just not fun to me (probably because I suck at it like a black hole on steroids). However, I know that others really enjoy it and I do like to watch them go at each other.
The few PvP fights I saw after the patch so far have been very "lopsided" towards mages now that the weeping weapons are debuffable. Look at it this way:

Pure Mages have attributes and skills that fully support their fighting style both in PvP and non-PvP (self buffs, debuffs, vulns, very powerful attack that ingores armor, and magic resistance). They usually lack a strong melee or missle defense since their attributes don't support them.

Pure Melee and Pure Archer have good melee and missle defense and an attack that does NOT completely ignore armor regardless of the weapon. They do not possess the ability to buff, debuff, vuln (except through a rending imbue which still hits the target's armor), or resist magic. Their attributes just don't support them.

This basically results in Melee/Archer vs. Melee/Archer is a good fight. Mage vs. Mage is a good fight. Mage vs. Melee/Archer is not really fair since the Melee/Archer can't debuff the mage's wand, can't ignore the mage's armor, and can't resist the mage's attacks with their armor.

Weeping weapons leveled the playing field a bit in that archers and melee's could attack so powerfully that mages were forced to heal themselves a lot more that they had to in the past. This enabled the melee/archer to give the mage a taste of their own medicine so to speak.
Now that only mages can benifit from the ability to debuff weeping weapons it makes PvP a mage's game once again.

I realize that there are hybrid templates that negate some of what I just said. This is based on my observations of usually "pure" level 50-120 characters that I know and not on level 220+ hybrids with all their stats maxed out (which are basically unstoppable killing machines lol).
Anyway, that's my feedback. If you are going to make weeping weapons debuffable then there should be some way for a melee/archer to debuff a mage's weeping wand. A gem or something. I dunno.

[HeXt]

Originally posted by Jin Saotome
LOL! I just fought someone with my weeping weapon! They debuffed it, and I took the stone out of it, put it back and and started beating on them again. I got "WTF! You can't do that, that's cheating!"

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guess everyone who jumped on the "Elemental weeping weapon" bandwagon feels a little silly now, eh?



LMFAO

[HeXt]

The gumshoe quest is pretty fun. Didn't really expect the dame to talk forever like that. It didn't play out well for a good patch day, but we all know once the rush is over it's fun. :)







It's pretty cool you guys got new tech in there to scan sex/skill and give loot based upon that.





:)

[mjayg]

Well I do have items from characters I deleted and planned to remake, now I'll just have to throw those items out.

Ah, I see. Yes, these items are now pretty much useless now. Holding on to items from deleted characters, with the future goal of creating new characters with that name, was not a scenario we thought of.

[Lurky]

I was just a tad bit curious. For most of the year it rains ALOT in AC. Now there is snow on the ground but somebody forgot to turn on the snowflakes. Last I knew raindrops don't make snow on the ground, unless you guys cast some very powerful frost spell on the ground of Dereth that I am not privy to? Hehe :)

Please give us snowflakes again for a couple of months, I'm tired of rain :)

[sylphia]

Well I am in the middle of the suit quest, and I gotta sk you:

Didnt you guys learn ANYTHING form that fiasco with the giftbox last year? The bottleneck at the Dame is ridiculous. Again.

I LOVE the chat-poses and interaction and the cheap gumshoe novel theme. HUGE props to whomever did all that. But it takes 3 mins+ just to get through the yapping with the Dame. There is a line of ppl standing on TD right now that is 15-20 ppl long. Assuming you are polite enough to wait your turn, thats about an hour just to talk to her to START the quest. And then you have to go through it AGAIN to turn in the items! At the very least, there shold have been seperate NPCs to start and finish the quest. Even then, it still needs a way to get through that silliness faster.

I loved the layout of the dungeon and the whole aura of the quest. Watching my toon beat up (or get beat up) by certain NPCs in the quest was hillarious! The "acting" portion of the quest gets top notch as far as I am concerned. But seriously, the bottlenecks at the main NPC ruin the whole thing. :(

[Ifuritah]

Originally posted by Virindi Clown
That's my problem with debuffable weeping weapons. It's just frustrating. You have to watch for guys who just click you and cast a spell to disarm your weapon and become powerless for a moment trying to avoid a -22 damage spell to your weapon you cannot do back to them in any form.

It also really changes nothing with group fights, so I just completely do not understand.

Just seems to be frustrating, ruin archers for good, and put melees back where they have been for years in small fighting right when it was looking good.

Anyone remember that thing that reduced war spells dependant on skill... oh what was it...oh yah...

an Aegis....

Anyone ever fight "O.o with no skill"? Man I land a level 7 vuln on that guy then start landing L7 wars, I'm hitting him for 100-120.... him? He's landing 130's on me... runs behind me then whack again... runs behind me ...whack... anyhoo... just thought I'd remind some of the melee folk that there is a way to lessen the damage done by war spells... without using the same method a mage would use to reduce damage done by melee weapons. Perhaps Turbine should make Blood loather start at level 3 or 4 like portal spells and then just have the L7 version of the spell be the same as what a level 4 BL does now. That's at least a viable option so you can't make their weapon useless.

Archer's.... well they don't get an aegis, but if the changes mentioned above were made to blood loather then this would help them out too. :)

[Ibn]

Originally posted by DT_Dude007
What would be nice:
Please at least let us know where you are trying to go with all these changes (like debuffable weeping weapons)...


I am looking into the possibility of an article on this topic, sort of a Letter to the Players solely on PvP and what our goals are for it. I can't promise that I'll be able to get this up soon, but I am working on it.

[Ibn]

Originally posted by sylphia
Well I am in the middle of the suit quest, and I gotta sk you:

Didnt you guys learn ANYTHING form that fiasco with the giftbox last year? The bottleneck at the Dame is ridiculous. Again.

We do try to avoid bottlenecks in general, however frequently in quests like this there are lines for the first few days, and never again after that. So we could focus the design of the quest on the first few days, or we could make it as fun as possible for the years and years that the quest will remain in the game after patch day.

In this case we chose the latter.

[Flynn]

She's smart enough to detect the avatar's gender and skills.. why can't she tell how many people are in the area and act accordingly, being a little quicker if there's a crowd?

[sylphia]

Well like i said i liek the rest of the quest, but this part is just plain silly.

Planning a little better for day 1 prop doesnt mean youhave to bork it for the rest of the time it is in the game. The wait could at least have been cut in half by having one NPC to start us (say, the guard) and another to collect (the Dame) or vice versa. Or do what was done on the Elysa's Favor and have multiple starting points. Yes, you would lose a little uniquness in the NPC, but you would cut down on the frustration level, and reduce the number of RUDE ppl that intentionally cut the line.

Some of us would actually like to experience new content on patch day, rather than being forced to wait a week or more to even think about trying a new quest, until after the craze dies down. I notice there isnt a bottleneck at the other NPCs in the quest, though they take about as long to do their thing. The problem is coming to the same NPC 2 times for lengthy chats.

Its obviously too late to fix this one, but consider this and the giftbox next time you guys ad in a quest.

Seriously though, great job on the REST of it :)

[Virindi Clown]

Mages don't ever hit me for 100-120. I am often shot for over 200 with 300 buffed magic defense while I have my aegis out. Your war must be low or something, and are you even using a weeping wand?

Ifuritah, that has nothing to do with skill. The aegis basically does not even have an effect on melee vs mage 1 on 1 in most respects. I'd say 95% of people still die in two wars. It matters more with streaks so people don't just shoot you up when you are near them, and makes sure you don't get one hit charging in their face.

You are almost making it look like just having some magic defense means you can stand in front of a mage and tank their wars with an aegis. That is entirely not the case at all.

And 130 from a melee would be a crit. They have a 10% chance of doing that, otherwise it is anywhere from 25-50% of that damage. Most mages would have to be crit 3 times in a row to die fast, and they can drain or do stamina to health to quickly save themselves.

If you just keep shooting wars, no melee is going to be darting around you hitting you between every spell. I couldn't manage that on half power, much less full, and half does not crit for 130. It is a lot different than what you described.

Debuffable weeping weapons shouldn't be there at all. It was in no way necessary, and I never saw anyone ask for that to solve anything. All I saw were a select few who heard of it and then tried to make it look like it was needed so they knew they would have the advantage on their mages. It's pretty obvious that would happen. I certainly don't think weapon debuffs should last longer than they already do, and I don't care for them to be weakened, just out entirely.

[Trai]

First, let me say that I enjoyed the Sam Spade quest. Even with the wait. Everyone was being very polite and having a great deal of fun. So now I have the dress on my lore based meleer and will be getting the suit on my mage at some point in the near future.

I especially appreciated seeing trees with which we could interact. In the future, I expect to see trees that we can chop as a part of a trade skill farming (mahogany trees, anyone?) and other sundries of similar nature.

The fishing pole was especially clever. Good job on using not-so-old tech in new ways.

Second, I love the login screen even if I do wish that the smiley would hang around just a tad longer or perhaps show when you do a rollover. He's almost subliminal now.

Third, the table's either need to be fixed in a hotfix or you're going to need to start slapping people with temp bans if they use them more than once to "grief" others.

[Ivanhoe]

Bloodloather on weeping is horrible.

melees and archers get reduced to crappy damage

why was this put into the game?
Please hotfix and remove it.

[purple]

Ibn,

Could you please explain why these (not very useful) weeping weapon changes were put in? I'm sure every single melee player on darktide (along with pklite melees on other servers) are dieing to hear the answer to this question.

thanks,

purps

[Ivanhoe]

and archers too!

[Virindi Clown]

They said its supposed to make large group fights less melee oriented. That doesn't say anything about why archers were destroyed or why a spell that targets one person at a time is supposed to balance out a bunch of people tearing at them while they cast it.

That to me, involves no logic. You can't do a spell like that to mages either, so it's unfair.

[Guna]

Ok no offence to the people who worked hard on this but, the game is like fugged up now, me and my group who normaly go to the vod fine have 1 or 2 deaths in the whole group, now have about 7-8 deaths in the first few hours and that is each.

[Avaton]

Originally posted by Guna
Ok no offence to the people who worked hard on this but, the game is like fugged up now, me and my group who normaly go to the vod fine have 1 or 2 deaths in the whole group, now have about 7-8 deaths in the first few hours and that is each.

Haven't been to the VoD in a while. What exactly changed with this patch that's causing so many deaths?

[Kilmor]

It is a sad but true story that the melees and archers of DT (and the reds or pinks on the other servers) get thrown a bone once a year, just to have it janked back one or two months later. Remember 2002? AR weapons were introduced and melees or archers could actually kill a mage for about one month. Everyone was quite happy, because fights against a melee (or A) could be a challenge. Then, seeing DT move away from magetide a little, tinkered armour negated any hope of the melees again. Magetide was back. 2003: Enter the weepings. Again, DTs classes entered somewhat of a balance just to lose it again with this prop.
The given reason was to improve group-PvP balance. Sorry to hand it to you, but you can never ever hope to balance group fights. Simply because you cannot define "group". There are an endless number of possible match-ups and combinations.
So if you cannot ballance something, why not go for the one thing that you can do: 1v1 ballance. You came very close, but now you lost it again.
History is repeating itself on DT once more. I left AC last year when I saw that melees (and A) where rendered impotent once more and I find myself in the same situation now. Funny thing is: I made this little pic for my signature on another board back then and it has come back to haunt me now:

I called it the future of AC (http://home.t-online.de/home/Rodemund/misc/Future_of_AC1.jpg)

Greetings Kilmor

[purple]

also, who ever came up with this idea?

i'm sure no player base ever suggested this...

[The Juggalo Dt]

I am a melee on Darktide. Extreme melee's are so TOTALY pointless now. We are complete jokes. Want balance, go back to only ppgsa, no arcs, nothing but ppgsa and hollows.

Sad to announce that I am having to reroll a effing mage! I HATE MAGES. But, it is the only way to be competitive and accomplish ANYTHING in this game now. Once again, MAGES are the topdog. Rerolling a mage is the only way to become nerf free.

The Juggalo of DT level 127 is now a mule. It took me over a year to level him. Never macro'ed and was barely ever chained. Like 2 weeks at most total of like 100mill.

[Extinction]

Hi, to all the people complaining about debuffable weeping weapons, I played a melee today in PvP for the first time ever, and I was able to unequip and re-equip my weapon every time a mage tried to BL me, and it took about 1 second to do it with the right timing.

Please learn to play the game, and then see if it's really that bad.

[Kilmor]

This might be an option for an UA, but everyone else is slowed by the animation. Besides, every such move is subject to your ping. Lag could be a killer all the time, this is just another instance it can take hold.

Greetings, Kilmor

[Televangelist]

The weeping changes are balanced just fine on Darktide.

Grow some skill.

We do try to avoid bottlenecks in general, however frequently in quests like this there are lines for the first few days, and never again after that. So we could focus the design of the quest on the first few days, or we could make it as fun as possible for the years and years that the quest will remain in the game after patch day.

In this case we chose the latter.

Agreed -- plus, this kind of quest is one that's really meant to do solo, without anyone around, anyways.

Did it on Darktide last night during primetime, though, with my friend and I -- while he didn't understand the idea of *not* attacking the bandits, all in all it went great and there wasn't too mcuh wait (only two of us).

[Brader]

Originally posted by Extinction
Hi, to all the people complaining about debuffable weeping weapons, I played a melee today in PvP for the first time ever, and I was able to unequip and re-equip my weapon every time a mage tried to BL me, and it took about 1 second to do it with the right timing.

Please learn to play the game, and then see if it's really that bad.

Extinction, do you even play DT? And just because you spent some time on a melee, I am betting you are a Mage (like me), only problem is you are only looking out for yourself, and are probably happy with the ability to make your opponent completely gimped in just one spell.

Yes, melees could hide their weapon all day long if they wanted. And that is what is now required of them since every mage on DT has b/l hotkeyed.

I'm wondering though... how would ya like it if melees could cast one spell on our wand & make us be doing the equivalant of level 4 or 5 war damage?

If you were having problems with melees prior to this patch, maybe it was YOU that needed to learn how to play if you need to rely on this kind of complete melee nerf in order to fight them.

Again, I'm a MAGE on DT, been there for 3 years, and all this patch did was make PvP completely lopsided in favor of mages.... once again.

[pacesetter]

Originally posted by The Juggalo Dt
I am a melee on Darktide. Extreme melee's are so TOTALY pointless now. We are complete jokes. Want balance, go back to only ppgsa, no arcs, nothing but ppgsa and hollows.

Sad to announce that I am having to reroll a effing mage! I HATE MAGES. But, it is the only way to be competitive and accomplish ANYTHING in this game now. Once again, MAGES are the topdog. Rerolling a mage is the only way to become nerf free.

The Juggalo of DT level 127 is now a mule. It took me over a year to level him. Never macro'ed and was barely ever chained. Like 2 weeks at most total of like 100mill.


please don't make an effing mage! you won't like it either.

[purple]

Originally posted by Televangelist
The weeping changes are balanced just fine on Darktide.

Grow some skill.

you have no clue whatsoever.

first of all, UA has an obvious benefit when it comes to putting away weapons. ua you can get rid of quickly enough to avoid the loather, other weapons have hardly any chance, especially if you're already hitting. also it only boils down to a debuffing game anyway... the mage will just sit around and wait till the player brings back the weapon, causing stupid deadlocks.

secondly, it is not balanced at all televangelist - i play a sword character, before the patch i was able to solo (bad) mages, good mages with excellent fastcasting skills i just had to pray for the lucky crit, otherwise i had no chance.

now i might as well just delete the char...

group pvp as it currently stands cannot be balanced, so why not stick with the best possible solution.

[Extinction]

Originally posted by purple
you have no clue whatsoever.

first of all, UA has an obvious benefit when it comes to putting away weapons. ua you can get rid of quickly enough to avoid the loather, other weapons have hardly any chance, especially if you're already hitting. also it only boils down to a debuffing game anyway... the mage will just sit around and wait till the player brings back the weapon, causing stupid deadlocks.

secondly, it is not balanced at all televangelist - i play a sword character, before the patch i was able to solo (bad) mages, good mages with excellent fastcasting skills i just had to pray for the lucky crit, otherwise i had no chance.

now i might as well just delete the char...

group pvp as it currently stands cannot be balanced, so why not stick with the best possible solution.

So UA has the benefit of the animation changes, but also does less damage - it's called pro's and cons.

You complain about mages being the best, wanting everything etc - look at you all now :(

[Tahlisa]

I love the quirky assasination quest, it really made me laugh. I just wish all my characters weren't female :-( but still, thats life.
The snowman/scold quest is great too, what a great idea to have a choice of rewards. I love getting pretty trinkets and stuff. The last few patches have been some of my favourites Stuff like the new leather armour and the chicken hats are things that really make the game enjoyable for me.

[Kuan-ti]

Im disapointed these are even in the game with this patch or any patch. I really think they are a far to modern an item for this type of game. Next you'll add tommie guns and kevlar vests LOL. I understand that its all part of the assin thing, I think, but why the zoot suit ect. you should have gone with the Yakuza thing in my oppinon. I guess what Im trying to say is that I dont think AC should have had the Modern mobster look added to it. I think this look takes away from the AC atmosphere. Just my lame 2 cents. We have given up pyreal and opted for a more modern curency for AC.

[Zalliun]

I havent been out to explore since i been busy working so i only been in VoD

Mystics with normal drudges are a big turnoff , the new undeads i average slightly less than 300 in damage on.

Personally my favoirte hunting please is close to runied now , fireing wars at undeads was bad enough before patch with hits around 500 but 300 in average on a 5k monster is just painfull.

New drudges are the same before packs of drudges were fun and amazing xp if you had a melee or bow char with you , now its just yet another pack of monster to avoid.

Same goes for banderlings hardly anyone bother to attack them before now you added yet another slow to kill monster to the pack of bandies.

Dont know about the rest of the patch but the place i spends 3/4 of my ingame time at have hurt badly

[purple]

Originally posted by Extinction
So UA has the benefit of the animation changes, but also does less damage - it's called pro's and cons.

You complain about mages being the best, wanting everything etc - look at you all now :(

i don't want everything - i just want a chance vs mage players.

[Kilmor]

Originally posted by Extinction
So UA has the benefit of the animation changes, but also does less damage - it's called pro's and cons.

You complain about mages being the best, wanting everything etc - look at you all now :(

Ahm, Extinction dear, when we are talking about weapons being BLed and the chance to put them away/out again, the smaller damage is not important. (BTW, does "4 Skillpoints" ring any bells?) UAs are the only weapons than have a chance to be unreadied in time. But that does only mean that UAs are slightly less screwed than the rest.

I find it rather funny that there are still people out there that are in denial about mages ruling DT, they did so forever. There were some months that melees stood a fighting chance, but mages have always ruled supreme. If you are a mage that feels otherwise, I'd say we are all clear who needs some skill.

Greetings, Kilmor

[HeXt]

The weeping weapon change wouldn't have been a big deal had you guys not announced it. It should have been discovered in battle.

[AzulDrakkon]

I love how certain people here look out for themselves, and lie or exaggerate or use twisted logic when they know they're wrong...oh I got hit for 127 on speed fully baned and proed, oh those, oh no, 2 melees can kill one mage, although 2 melees can also kill one melee or archer, and when anyone brings up an actual point they miss it or give it a weak counter. I'm really sick of trying to make people agree with me because certain people on this board don't care and say "well they have no skill!" Have you ever heard of animation breaking? Mace, axe, sword, bow,xbow,thrown weapons, and spear all take longer to put away than it take to fastcast a 8-minute level 6, and oftentimes no one has item dispels handy...even if they they did, they'd have to pack the weapon in question, cast a level 6 dispel (which takes awhile compared to a war) and in the 10 seconds the mage could war-war-streak if they wished.

Obviously some of these people enjoy talking trash because of their obvious lack of respect for other posters, and yes I've been caught up in it too, mainly because I'm tired of hearing them blame their problem on others ~*"lack of skill"*~....I'd accent that even more if I could. Yet meanwhile the obvious mage exploits run unchecked and all the mages can say is "machinegun....and sticky is unbreakable" sticky is breakable, and quite easy to regen stamina...jumpspin then kneelstrafe/eat a ration and you're good to go, and machinegun meanwhile is only used at advocate towers and is very easily evadable (I haven't seen it used in forever) Then they just keep complaining...although they have DELAY/SPAM CAST, animation breaks, the jumpspin-combatmode exploit, and many more, including skill imbalances like missile defense.


Btw, just to prove that their is no intentional PvP archer-only love...

Patch Love History (1 Year: not counting spawns, just items and general changes PvP-wise; admitting mages were top dog back then)
-January: Mana Conversion (All-Hermetic Link)...not that big a deal
-Febuary: Aegis (Melee-Magic damage reduced based on Magic D)...Great for melees.
-March: Nothing.
-April: Sharded GSx (All- Major Wards)
-May: `Jumpspin Penalty (Melee mainly-kills stamina faster than StM from 20 mana.)
Overkill, but necessary to help melees hit
`Wands Updated (Mainly mage- mana C added to quest wands, many wands with minors/moderates, awakener usable by those with trained critter)
`Hieromancer Armor Update (Mage- not that great but I've seen unbaned mages run and change into this to fight me...so I'm listing it)
-June: Weeping weapons (All-Wand one-shot anyone, far more overpowered than anything introduced to Asheron's Call to date.
Missile weapons overpowered compared to melees.)
-July: Weeping Missile/Wand weapons nerfed (Missile more than wand...)
`Moderate Gaunlets (Mage- allow me to explain...archers and melees using these in PvP don't care...+10 War is much better than +10 sword on someone you won't miss anyways.)
`Asherons Raiment (all)
-August: Missile human slayer dropped again (Missile nerf- I think it was this patch)
`Olthoi Armor (Anyone who is afraid of hollows or doesn't have 10x.)
-September: Auto-buff item by targeting (Mainly mages- auto-debuff as well)
-October: Melee Weepings buffed (Melee)
-November: Elemental Weepings (Melee...well everyone else could do any damage...)
-December: Weepings debuffable (Mainly mages- Screw over an archer today!)

People who tell Archers to get skill need to learn how the game works, Turbine gives Mages and Melees alternating pimpsmacks, and we get backhanded "unintentionally"

[AzulDrakkon]

Originally posted by HeXt
The weeping weapon change wouldn't have been a big deal had you guys not announced it. It should have been discovered in battle.

Maybe wrong, maybe right, but once we found out...and its not like people just don't submit certain things to maggies......................;)

So everyone would have found out and we'd be madder then because we were nerfed without warning.

[Mimir]

Originally posted by The Juggalo Dt
I am a melee on Darktide. Extreme melee's are so TOTALY pointless now. We are complete jokes.

Now that's not true, you can spend a year and a half transfering points from Str/Cord/Quick to Focus and Self and unspec any melee skills and spec war, then you'll be as good as new

[smaweet]

Learn some skill...use your phantoms
archers, yea you guys are screwed =/


I love the gumshoe quest, especially the part when you get portalled to ves isles, the view you get. If only you could have the screen get blurry and shake for a second it would make it be just like a movie. Loved that quest and the rewards =)

[HeXt]

If weepings are made debuffable they should make targetting harder again. Or make mages have debuffable armor since the coding is there among the mysteries of AC.

[boneyard]

Originally posted by Avaton
Haven't been to the VoD in a while. What exactly changed with this patch that's causing so many deaths?
olthoi sentinals i think, those are really dangerous.

a day after the patch i went in with a few people of my normal group and we were killed like we were n00bs. but after being a little more careful again its fine.

i also believe the xp on the bandies was upped which was certainly a good change.

in general not much really changed, it got a little harder for sure. but i already didnt like the fact of so many low levels running around there anyway :)

[Birinair]

First the good:

I love the Assassination Plot and the Suit and Dress you get as a reward. They look awesome. The Snowman village was a cute bit of content as well. The new housing decorations are a nice addition as well.

Now for the thing I don't like about this patch. Changing it so that you have to have melee defense trained to avoid stamina loss has made it virtually impossible for a mage to solo any large mobs. It isn't bad enough that I get hit for damage by almost every single swing they take, but now my stamina bar disappears almost as fast and I suddenly have no way to recover mana so that I can continue fighting. The only way it may be possible for me to keep up with a mob is to burden myself with potions or food to recover stamina and mana. Was it your intention with this change to make soloing mobs impossible for a mage?

[Avaton]

Originally posted by Birinair
First the good:

I love the Assassination Plot and the Suit and Dress you get as a reward. They look awesome. The Snowman village was a cute bit of content as well. The new housing decorations are a nice addition as well.

Now for the thing I don't like about this patch. Changing it so that you have to have melee defense trained to avoid stamina loss has made it virtually impossible for a mage to solo any large mobs. It isn't bad enough that I get hit for damage by almost every single swing they take, but now my stamina bar disappears almost as fast and I suddenly have no way to recover mana so that I can continue fighting. The only way it may be possible for me to keep up with a mob is to burden myself with potions or food to recover stamina and mana. Was it your intention with this change to make soloing mobs impossible for a mage?

Hmm... I understand your point as I saw my stamina disappearing rather quickly myself since the patch (I'm a mage with no melee or missle def). I wouldn't say soloing stuff is impossible though. I've fought in the Shallow Hive (probably the nastiest place for making your stamina vanish I can think of) since the patch several times by my self without to much trouble as long as I was careful. This was the case before the patch though so not much changed and it's not unusual for me to run around with 0 stamina in there. I mainly rely on my armor for protection as do most mages I know that have no defenses trained. An eye on my mana bar and a quick Revitalize in a corner usually does the trick when I need to regain mana. Just don't get surrounded. That was a quick way to die even before the patch.
What are you fighting mainly? Are you refering to fighting in a dungeon or in the open?

[LordShadowz]

Regarding the weeping weapon changes. A lot of people (11 pages worth) responded to the proposed changes at the following URL:

http://forums.ac.turbinegames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=179

As well as many other fan run sites like the vault and COD. A huge majority of the responses were negative. We all predicted exactly what would happen and so far, a lot that was posted has come true. The change should never have been made. There is no balance at all. The only thing that has occured is that people either play gimped and neutered melee and archer characters, or play the all powerful mage. Group combat is not balanced. It was more balanced last month than it has ever been. Yet instead of fixing problems in the game, IE mansion Bug, animation problems, Gear detection problems, lack of customer service in game (just examples), they choose to fix something that was not broken and actually as close to balancing that it has ever been. This patch is one of the most flagrant disregards for player opinion Turbine has ever done imo. To me, they snubbed their nose at us and said just wait. Why ??? It doesn't take a brain surgeon to know what was going to happen. Have they come back and said "We were wrong and we will change it back" ?? No.. They have said nothing. This was one of the worst decisions the AC1 live team has ever done and its compounded by the fact that they totally disregarded a majority of the player base in doing it. They always say " Oh were listening" but their actions with regards to this months event show thats just a bunch of hot air. Why do they ask for feedback ?? After this month why are we bothering to even give it ?? If this month shows what our future is going to be like now that Turbine has repurchased the game, then I would be afraid of AC's future.

I worked for the MS/Zone as a independent Contractor in 1998 and 1999 as an events specialist under a premium game. When the majority of players spoke on an issue, we listened and made the appropriate changes. If there was a reason we couldn't, we came out and frankly explained our reasonings. We never gave half answers and never disregarded a majority of opinion that was collected. We never asked the players to test our theories and told them to wait. They were our customers. They paid my salary. When I made a mistake on an event, I apologized and made changes to correct it. I was in the game lobbies daily and responded to every question posted on our MS run Bulletin Boards. This is why this has made me so upset. I really feel that this is not the way to good customer service or relations. I have been playing since this game since 1998. I have paid since day one that it went live. I would like to know my opinion counts, especially when so many others agree. Right now I am very discouraged. I post this frank and hard response in hopes that perhaps someone at Turbine will get it through their heads. I care about AC, and I care about having fun. This month it has been ruined for me, and for no reason at all.

As to the rest, The wait time and the new Zuut Suits are terrible. They are too modern looking for this game. Remove them.

Change the weeping weapons back so that I can once again play with my UA and have fun.


Very upset,
Billy

[Birinair]

Originally posted by Avaton
Hmm... I understand your point as I saw my stamina disappearing rather quickly myself since the patch (I'm a mage with no melee or missle def). I wouldn't say soloing stuff is impossible though. I've fought in the Shallow Hive (probably the nastiest place for making your stamina vanish I can think of) since the patch several times by my self without to much trouble as long as I was careful. This was the case before the patch though so not much changed and it's not unusual for me to run around with 0 stamina in there. I mainly rely on my armor for protection as do most mages I know that have no defenses trained. An eye on my mana bar and a quick Revitalize in a corner usually does the trick when I need to regain mana. Just don't get surrounded. That was a quick way to die even before the patch.
What are you fighting mainly? Are you refering to fighting in a dungeon or in the open?

Okay, maybe the term impossible is a bit strong, but it is definitely going to take a major change in my play style and it will be much more difficult to play solo in any mob dungeon. At least two places I was hunting solo that I found nigh-impossible (you like that term? :-) ) were the Armored Tusker dungeon (trying to get my tusk) and the new 80+ Olthoi Chasm ( I got into a room where there were a bunch of Armored Skeletons that just kept hammering on me. ) I will definitely need to start carrying some Rations around.

[sylphia]

I would much rather Turbine did NOT return to the old manual targeting of weapons and shields. This is an improvement that serves as a great assist when trying to debuff critter wpns and shields, esp out in VoD. The better solution is to switch the WW back, like we have asked them to do before they even did it. Starting down the road of trying to balance what they broke will just lead to a snowballing chain of nerfs and screw-ups. Make the wise choice and put WW back the way they were. The changes did nothing to help balance PvP group battles (just as we predicted), and have only hurt PvP 1v1 (as we ALSO predicted). As I said before, one would think that Turbine would have learned from the AC2 fiasco and realize that LISTENING to player feedback and doing what WE want is more productive and beneficial to the game. I believe the majority of the player base can be trusted not to want to totally screw over other players just to get a slight advantage. Whats more, we backed up our portests with solid proof and testimony, and reasons why we didnt want this change. Seeing as how we have been proven RIGHT, its time for Turbine to grab a slice of humble pie and do what they should have done in the firts place, before they irrevocably piss off the folks that have been so loyal to them over the last 4 years.

But what do I know? I am just a paying customer, nothing more...

[Setolc]

Originally posted by boneyard
olthoi sentinals i think, those are really dangerous.

a day after the patch i went in with a few people of my normal group and we were killed like we were n00bs. but after being a little more careful again its fine.

i also believe the xp on the bandies was upped which was certainly a good change.

in general not much really changed, it got a little harder for sure. but i already didnt like the fact of so many low levels running around there anyway :)

Also -- it seemed that the hollow weapons that the lugians carry was upgraded. Or the change to missile attacks (at half bar) also effected melee weapons? I did not change my armor or skills and this time I had to be careful about watching health while fighting the melee lugians. They seemed to be hitting harder with their weapons. I did not notice a big change from the hollow rocks, I still seemed to get nailed if I did not side-step them.

Love the new K'nath! The drains and vulns certainly added excitement to those fights.

We avoided the bugs & bandies (but we tended to skirt them before too).

Yes we had more deaths, but once we realized that the new critters needed to be treated with respect, it was fine.

Our group had a great time and the changes to the spawns added excitement. Also VoD was relatively 'quiet' so we enjoyed not having to avoid other people hunting.

[Guna]

Yea it is more empty cause the groups will not let in anyone under level 70 in fear of having to pick up there corpse every few seconds.

[Frank The Knife]

Please put Weeping Weapons back the the way they were.

We all make mistakes its how we deal with them that makes us shine.

Thanks

[Chromium Golem]

What I like about this patch so far are the new braclet and the dungeon you have to go through to get it, and the Olthoi Chasm.

The Olthoi Chasm is awesome, it kind of looks a bit like Olthoi Aracde but that's alright. I like the mixture of monsters and the bugs!. Bring on the bugs! Only thing that could make this better would be some new higher level minions and some virindi in there.

I had great fun doing both of these new quests.

[Flynn]

Regarding the high level spawn that was remove from Aphus Lassel.. There seems to be another one at 3.2s 96.8e, right in the middle of the low level area. There were a few devastators and assailers surrounded by male & female tuskers, reedshark striplings and blue wasps.

[Brader]

*

[LordShadowz]

Brader,


As much as I totally agree with you on the issue of the weeping weapons and Turbines response to a huge outcry against the changes, I think you've made a mistake in thinking they deleted your post. You are active in 2 threads.. The Feedback on the letter to the players, and this one. Your post was not deleted, its right there in the other thread where it was last night when you posted it (I had read it before I left for work). Here is the link:

http://forums.ac.turbinegames.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=5491#post5491

[Brader]

Lord Shadowz,

You are right.. I will delete, or edit out my post. Thanks.

I was wrong & will try to correct my mistake. Lets hope others are big enough to do so :)

[Ibn]

Originally posted by Flynn
Regarding the high level spawn that was remove from Aphus Lassel.. There seems to be another one at 3.2s 96.8e, right in the middle of the low level area. There were a few devastators and assailers surrounded by male & female tuskers, reedshark striplings and blue wasps.

Thanks, I'll check this out and send it over to QA.

[Virindi Clown]

Did you post something and it not show up? Every once in a while that will happen to every post I make. It will say they are there but I can never view them on the thread until like an hour later.

[Andiglo]

Originally posted by Extinction
Hi, to all the people complaining about debuffable weeping weapons, I played a melee today in PvP for the first time ever, and I was able to unequip and re-equip my weapon every time a mage tried to BL me, and it took about 1 second to do it with the right timing.

Please learn to play the game, and then see if it's really that bad.

It is that bad. If a mage is getting hit hard, just cast BL, and watch the melee either put away a weapon, or loose all offensive ability. Seriously, why should a melee or archer be required to learn this. If I could debuff 30% of war damage by casting a spell, and landing it nearly 100% of the time, mages would be crying foul, ESPECIALLY IF THEY COULDN'T DO THE SAME.

The Dec 2003 patch reduced the melee and archer offense to a point where the mage cannot be killed unless he makes some stupid mistakes.

[Mageman]

The level 100+ portion of the Olthoi Chasm is way too difficult. Even with 30+ people, we could only get about 1/2 way through the dungeon on one set of buffs. Even then, at least 4 people died.

[Ifuritah]

and landing it nearly 100% of the time

UH...isn't that part of the whole skill thing? Ya know....playing the game... learn how to fight....


...and watch the melee either put away a weapon, or loose all offensive ability...
Seriously, why should a melee or archer be required to learn this.


Again... UH.. If your not already doing this as a melee you (a)don't have much skill (b) just started playing ac (c) don't play DT/just started going red.


I have both a mage and sword melee on dt. Before the patch and before I had my weepings back when Tinkered was the way to go, you had to do this all the time....

I do agree Weeping should NOT be debuffable though.

____
Oh yah, thought of a small improvment to ac. Make it a toggle so that you do not change stances when you unequip a weapon. Would make protecting your weapon from someone trying to BL you a little easier.

OR

How about a Blood Loather protection spell. Would fancy up Item magic a little too. :) Have the spell have its own HP so that when they cast BL it takes off <x> amount of HP. So they either try to BL your weapon and get beat on or ignore your weapon and fight you.

[sylphia]

This pretty much proves the point I was trying to make before the BL on WW was added. Now there is a race to find ways to counter the the BL, requests to add tech changes to the game that get around it. Requests for spells to nerf mages similarly. When it could all be rendered MOOT by simply removing the ability to affect the WW in the first place. Instead of trying to find a way to make the horse look like a cow, try putting the cow back in the barn while you still can.

[AzulDrakkon]

Best reply ever sy.

[Ifuritah]

Even a bad change now can be a good change later.
Without change, AC would die..fast. Nothing more added = boring. It would be ok for 5-6 months then it would get really lame.

[Perhaps they have something coming that requires it to be this way, would be nice if they'd share some info though.]

My point is just this, they could change it back, easy fast fix.
Then it's back to the way it was. [I wish they could take another step back also, take out the WW (not likely) and then we would be back to the (IMO) golden age of AC.] But if there is a way to possibley make the game better/more fun using other methods then why not try it. I'm always up for something new.

But because I have a mage my point is considered invalid....or that seems to be the way people think here.

P.S. Don't forget I do have a sword melee I play on dt as well.

[Chromium Golem]

Originally posted by Birinair
First the good:

I love the Assassination Plot and the Suit and Dress you get as a reward. They look awesome. The Snowman village was a cute bit of content as well. The new housing decorations are a nice addition as well.

Now for the thing I don't like about this patch. Changing it so that you have to have melee defense trained to avoid stamina loss has made it virtually impossible for a mage to solo any large mobs. It isn't bad enough that I get hit for damage by almost every single swing they take, but now my stamina bar disappears almost as fast and I suddenly have no way to recover mana so that I can continue fighting. The only way it may be possible for me to keep up with a mob is to burden myself with potions or food to recover stamina and mana. Was it your intention with this change to make soloing mobs impossible for a mage?



I have a sword/melee character. It has always been a great burden for me to carry 50+ stamina potions. Even with the new braclets and stamina potions/elixers/foods, I still have to carry more burden in stamina elixirs than what all of my armor weighs.
I usually carry about 4000 BU for stamina restoration.
Carrying stamina potions has always been a great burden for the past 4 years I have been playing. Why should a mage with no melee be able to play without carrying any stamina elixirs? I was surprised when I read your post since you are complaining about the possibility of having to carry stamina potions.

I would jump for joy if they made some stamina foods that were much lighter.

Carrying these heavy stamina potions/elixirs is just a fact of life if you're going to play the game I think. :D

:)


Edit: Just looked at the Dev Notes and it says:
"You must now have Melee or Missile Defense trained to have a chance at avoiding stamina loss after a successful evade. See the Rollout Article for details."

However, you are saying you get hit by almost every swing, so you must not be evading, why should you lose all your stamina?

[Ibn]

Originally posted by Chromium Golem

Edit: Just looked at the Dev Notes and it says:
"You must now have Melee or Missile Defense trained to have a chance at avoiding stamina loss after a successful evade. See the Rollout Article for details."

Unfortunately there is a mistake in this. Please see my post on the Announcements forum (http://forums.turbinegames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=490).

[sylphia]

You lose stamina with every attack, whether you evade or not. Folks with defenses trained have a chance of losing LESS stamina on a successful evade.

I personally always carry a small stack of each elixir as a "just in case". What you ahve to remember, though, is that a mage has much lower streangth than the average melee. And unlike melees, its not a primary stat for our attack, so raising it is only a priority for burden issues, which means it only gets raised if we are having problems being burdened. Having to caryy larger stacks of stamina elixirs only aggravates the situation. Not to mention that if you are fighting any kind of mobs that swarm (such as olthoi), your stamina depletes so fast, it is almost impossible to keep up with it for the S2M combo. Sure, it can be done, but it is MUCH harder now.

But as usual, mages adapt; we are used to being smacked with a nerf bat, even when its not done intentionally :)

[Andiglo]

Don't for get the regen bonus. If you have high strength, AND high endurance you get killer regen bonus, which makes a difference.

Melee's have high Str, mages (most) have higher endurance.

If you have base 10 on both, it's VERY tough regarding stam loss.

[Davidge]

Here is a summary of my clans feedback on two of the new quests, and on one old quest:

Olthoi Chasm

We love this quest! Provides good hunting and group activity for all levels (something that needs to happen more often imo.) Kudos to the designers and devs that made this happen.

The translated notes are givable, thus allowing patrons to donate XP to vassals. We really like this dynamic, seems like a great way to return XP back to vassals and a neat way to reward clan members for special recognition, or just to help pump up a trade mule.

My only gripe is that the reward in the 100+ dungeon for a lvl 126 character is pitiful . . .

Question: Will the ability to give the translated notes be retained? We hope this was by design, and not a bug that will be fixed in the next patch.

Refulgent Bracelet

Another very cool addition to the game, not to mention a useful quest reward. Poor Twitch, ever the victim of circumstance and poor choices. I can hardly wait to see where Twitch ends up next. Suspect that he is the new protagonist in a comic plot arc, like Ulgrim used to be . . .. ( you ever going to move Ulgrim around again? )

And the old quest:

Bobo!

It happens from time to time that a fellow will lose someone to the lifestone during the final battle with Mowen Uduan. The fellow kills Mowen, then they generally try to recover the lost items for the people that died. The problem is that the portal spawned on Mowen's death only lasts for what seems 30 seconds.

This is not enough time to recover the deceased's DIs, or worse, armor or weapons when they have insufficient death items. Performing a rescue requires that one volunteer sacrifice their final reward - since the paw from Bobo is triggered by stepping through Mowen's portal.

Question: Would it be possible for Turbine to look into Mowen's portals duration and perhaps consider a tweak? Two minutes is about what I recommend . . . ;)

Thanks Turbine!

[Chromium Golem]

I don't think the trigger for getting a paw is stepping through the portal after Mowen is killed. Once I killed him and actually missed the portal by a second or two and got stuck in there. I had to recall out. The next time I did the quest when I got to Bobo he handed me a 3 finger paw instead of portalling me in to fight Mowen.

I do think the timer timer on the portal should be increased by at least 10-15 seconds if not more.

[Ibn]

The translated notes: This is not a bug, but it may be changed next month.

Ulgrim: Probably. :)

The Bobo quest: I'll add that to my suggestion list.

[kryptik]

Very nice update. I had my doubts about being able to buff/debuff Weeping Weapons, but it really turned out alright. The assasination quest was very nice aswell :)

[LordShadowz]

ZKryptik,

What do you mean it turned out alright ? You must be a mage to be saying that. Please explain so the rest of us who think it hasn't understand.

I have been so upset over the issue that I haven't even logged into AC for 2 weeks. Its not even about the issue really. It's that when I go to log in I get this disgusting feeling because here a huge majority of the player base spoke when asked for feedback, and our feedback was cast aside and we're used as guinea pigs. Everything we said would happen negatively has and still they won't change it back.

As Sylphia posted, now what will happen is they have to make changes to counter the debuff changes, and then more changes after that. They had it as close to perfect as they ever had it prior to the change.. But do they listen to the players, nope.. they do as they want and tell us to wait and try out their theories.

It's been over a month and I am still pissed. I find myself now looking at other games to play.

A paying customer from 1998 who's opinion doesn't matter,
Billy
LordShadowz

[Shao Majii]

Please avoid anything like these suits in future. When I first saw screenshots of them, I thought it was a twisted joke. I even laughed. Then I was restocking spell components and saw one. I was stunned. Shell shocked is more the proper description. I didn't know what to think. I couldn't believe it was real. They recalled out and just after, someone else showed up in one.

I actually stopped to think about it. I admit to having friends in real life that do wear fedoras. They'd love it just for the novelty of being able to wear one. However, they would not agree to it's presence in a medival fantasy game. I first bought AC back in summer 2000 because of the swords and sorcery fantasy basis. I'm certain that many who bought AC did so for the same reason. I didn't start playing a mage to turn around and watch people in suits casting spells and swinging swords. It's bad enough I have to put up with metallica T-shirts in a LARP. (nothing against Metallica, they rock. But not on my field. Just not the place for it)

This is a medival fantasy game. Please keep it that way. I could never in my wildest dreams (or nightmeres in this case) have imagined such a thing entering AC. Should this continue, I shall be forced to seek another Medieval fantasy game. And one to beat what AC has been so far (overall anyway) will be difficult. This has been a fun game and I have enjoyed it and hated it. While I still don't think mages should be wearing armor, I didn't think I had to worry about seeing such an extreeme non-fantasy element. I am truly disappointed.

hoping for better things to come. I hope the suit is not some evil form of fore-shadowing.

Here's my two cents on items for the future: if it will earn a nickname like "pimp suit" it's probly a bad thing. Think about it.

As for WW: I know that you know what you're doing to some degree, but please face this fact: The playerbase that is interested, one way or another, have already tested all kinds of ideas, theories, etc. Why? Because they want to be better at it. They will infact, spend weeks just trying to find a way to be better.

Many have been playing so long, that they have just as much time invested in this game as you, the current live team. Many of them know the math that makes this game run. And they have learned to deal with lag on top of this. If they can present "this is what will happen if" then it's not just talk. It comes from experience.

Group battles on DT are not something to play with IMO. Let the players balance the numbers out. They will travel in groups that complement eachother to the average battle. They will fellow up however they have to. That will balance itself in just the way the DTers play. They've always adapted like that. They always will. However, they have to rely on you to balance 1 on 1 fights as best you can. They can control how many and who, but not how the game works.

[HeXt]

Nobody complains about the Police box, the gift t-shirts, and various other things that would be concidered modern day.

[Shao Majii]

Originally posted by HeXt
Nobody complains about the Police box, the gift t-shirts, and various other things that would be concidered modern day.

You are correct. However, you have to go looking for them. T-shirts are not done in such a way that you can't ignore the "futuristic" look. The phone booth is 1 object. You have to go looking for it. The suits come to you weather you want them to or not. They will find their way into your screenshots wheather you want them to or not, etc. You cannot avoid them. They are everywhere and aside from the phone booth, are the most obvious non-medieval object in the game. Prior "suits" have at least had a unique look that very well could exist etc. I'm upset that this could not be done in the same fasion, while it is obviously possible to have done so. It could have been done in a way that wouldn't look so modern.

[Shao Majii]

OK. Lemmie put it another way.

Here you are playing a game for about 4 years and it stays pretty consistant. Suddenly, something changes. Lemmie give a non-AC example:

Let's say you're playing SWG. And suddenly, the devs decide to add hobbit clothes and gandolf robes and pointed mage hats. How cannon is that? It's not. It's also insanely not consistant with the concept of starwars. Who would get them? lots of people. but there would also be an uprise of really mad players who role-played and cared about starwars.

Same here. This has been a 99% medieval fantasy game. The only elements that aren't are a challenge to find. Untill now. The story, concept, etc has been messed with by adding a super-mundane object that can be seen anywhere, anytime. It's like adding swords and sorcery to a Bogart detective movie. It just doesn't fit what has been for years.

[Fiction_LC]

good about time they added some super hard quests

[Aaryna]

Majii, I agree with you on the suits. While I applaud the Devs on the creativity of the concept, they do not belong in Dereth. We pay our $10 a month to enter and participate in another unique world, not a low poly version of our own. I am really disappointed and put off when I see things that are just blatant rips from reality, with absolutely no attempt at an even slightly within-canon spin. This is the equivalent of having Bruce Willis show up in one of the LotR movies, and start blowing away Uruk-hai with a machine gun.

The dress, is even worse. Not only is it a great example of the beginning of the trend towards the objectification of female avatars that I feared, it's also quite ugly. And on top of it all, just as outside the game world as the suit.

I am once again going to have to rationalise the content of a patch to make it acceptable within canon. I'm getting tired of having to do that...

EDIT: I've changed this post several times, because I want to say what I mean, but I don't think I have. I think the Devs are being very creative with this, and I think that's a good thing. However, I think they have crossed the line between fun quirk and brick-in-the-head one too many times.

Example: Calling the new housing item a Shrubbery, is funny. Watching someone run past me wearing a pink suit and tie, with a pink chicken on their head, holding a frozen carrot, is NOT funny. It's dumb. Seeing that kind of **** pulls me out of the game - a game I love, and don't want to see ruined like this.

We have enough stupid content. We have WAY TOO MUCH stupid content. If you're going to release patches that are light on content because you're working on improving things, I applaud that, but don't add in this 'filler' drivel too. I would rather see a patch with only one or two actual additions to the game, than see a patch with a chicken hat.

In short: if your goal is to make the game fun, remember that some people have fun feeling like they're actually in the game, rather than sitting outside of it and laughing at it.

[HeXt]

Originally posted by Shao Majii
OK. Lemmie put it another way.

Here you are playing a game for about 4 years and it stays pretty consistant. Suddenly, something changes. Lemmie give a non-AC example:

Let's say you're playing SWG. And suddenly, the devs decide to add hobbit clothes and gandolf robes and pointed mage hats. How cannon is that? It's not. It's also insanely not consistant with the concept of starwars. Who would get them? lots of people. but there would also be an uprise of really mad players who role-played and cared about starwars.

Same here. This has been a 99% medieval fantasy game. The only elements that aren't are a challenge to find. Untill now. The story, concept, etc has been messed with by adding a super-mundane object that can be seen anywhere, anytime. It's like adding swords and sorcery to a Bogart detective movie. It just doesn't fit what has been for years.




If they added clothes there they' still fit, there are many poor galaxies, and many civillizations in the SW lore.

::Shrug::

[smaweet]

Your defense to stopping BL is called magic defense, no ones (sparring maxed chars) item skill is high enough to land on most weapons.

And no, stance change is worthless, you have enough time halfway through a spell to get out of attack mode and switch/unequip your weapon, if you don't want to leave mode, go ua. UA's damage is gimped for the ease that it has in other areas. Why do sword users think they have so much room to be uber just for 8 credits, I do not know. But deal with it, it's balanced.

[Ifuritah]

no ones (sparring maxed chars)

Oh, so at least we know your not talking to 80% of darktide. :P

Why do sword users think they have so much room to be uber just for 8 credits, I do not know. But deal with it, it's balanced.

And so by that logic Mages are balanced as well...
Ok, enough of this subject before it becomes a flame war or something.

[smaweet]

The game is balanced, but maybe not to your play style, I can't stand people who cry to make the game change because of it.

I like turbine how they balance the game to a normal play, not to what the exploits have changed, except when it comes to the economy of items in the game...sometimes :p

In making a good game, you sometimes have to forget the exploits, waiting for when the game can get a 'fix', as good as the 'fix' can get

[Shao Majii]

It seems to me that you missed the point of what I was saying and took what I said exactly as I said it. What I was doing was giving an example. Perhaps it sucked considering the vast expanse of the SW universe.

However, players would realize it was a gandolf hat. They would still be upset and cries of "quit making stuff up just so your stolen, out of place ideas fit" would be heard (read) all over their boards.

What I'm saying is this: If you have to make up a run-around reason that something exists then there's something wrong. You should not have to justify something's existance in a good story. It should fit into the story.

How would a lightsaber be taken in AC?(please don't ignore this example and say "that wouldn't happen due to a lawsuit" I'm making a point. If you can't see it, I'm sorry. I don't know why so I can't give it to you so you'll get it.) I'll tell you. lots of people would love it simply because it's a lightsaber. Lots of people would hate it even though it could be explained in a logical fasion. Here's how it would be explained: It's a magical weapon. Now, that may not be a huge stretch, but it's a recognized starwars thing. There is no way that it wouldn't bring starwars to mind when you saw it in game. It would yank you out of AC and into SW quotes and conversations instantly. Just like seeing someone in a suit that looks exactly like your boss/teacher would remind you of work/school.

The suit and other wide-spead items like it, Aaryna gave some good examles, are a total recall back to the fact that you're a real person sitting in front of a computer connected to the internet through thousands of miles of cables, wires, buttons, switches, diodes, and resistors, etc playing a game that is really nothing but a bunch of code stuck in the form of a huge series of "IF X, THEN do B." Now granted, a game like AC is a lot more complex than that progaming wise, but that's what a program breaks down to.

Lag does that enough. I don't need content to do it too. I am here to spend time with friends and play a game. I don't know any real RPers in AC but I like to have the feel when I do come across one so I can at least try to keep the in-character feel for them if not for me.

I don't play for just me. Every pyreal I trade, monster I kill, etc has some sort of effect on everyone else. I try to be mindful of that. That is why there is something wrong with these items. For role-players who made a toon and gave them life, a 20th century suit is not exactly going to help them stay in that life.

Just like a rainbow-colored punk-rock hairdo isn't going to work on the set of a movie about something in medieval society. Like the tennis shoe in the desert with C-3PO and R2-D2. Like a car in LoTR. It won't work. Ok, so it worked in back to the future and Bill & Ted movies.... That's what the story was about. Thats why it worked. But this is AC. It has back story and 4 years of history that have nothing to do with time travel or even Earth for that matter.

PLEASE stay with the story. Space fillers suck. I'd rather you made a dull dungeon, a new monster or emote than something that doesn't fit. Artist not inspired with something cool? So what... If it's not important to the story of the prop, wait on the idea and do it later when you do have some art to match. If nothing else, spend the time fixing bugs and making code work better. But no more junk please.

I've tried to be constructive on this, Devs. If I need to add anything say something. I'd be happy to help. Personally, I would have avioded adding things to the game that lead in the direction of this suit. Why? It gives the story a fist in the face, and gives players the idea that more of it is on the way, thus forcing you to pick a side and choose who you want to upset. This is the position you have put yourselves in. You can add more and the Role-players and lore lovers will be upset and might leave. Or you can hope there is enough of this stuff to please the players that want it and stop adding these kinds of items.

I personally would like to see a position on these kinds of things. Why are they done? Will it continue? Is this part of M$ being removed from the picture? Please give us a statement on these items so we can respond to it and tell you what we like and don't. How we think that statement should change.

I am making my stand by not doing the suit quest and by posting here. But not everyone knows about this board. Not everyone feels comfortable opening up and typing long stuff up like this. Some of them feel like it's pointless to do so thinking that you feel like gods and won't listen instead of as servants doing a great service for people and having a ball doing it. The fact is, a lot of people quit... Perhaps you should find out why by asking the ones who are left. Perhaps it wasn't just the draw of some other game. For some of them, it might have been the constant reminders that they are just playing a game.

Example: What happened when they left Beast out of X-Men? Fans were upset. What happens when Star Trek breaks Cannon? Fans get upset. What happens when comic books break cannon? Fans get upset. If these things happen enough, fans stop being fans, companies that pay for advertising stop because it's not getting them exposure like it used to. Same thing here. Break cannon and fans will quit. Hurt the story and fans will quit. Having a story and such puts you in this same position. Please be mindful of it.

[Renegade]

Its good but. I mean im not sure Ibn if you play Darktide or not. But is almost to point where you physically cannot fight. People now are ending duels because the lag is so ridiculous. Any hopes of fixing this lag?

[Ibn]

We are always looking at ways to cut down on server-side and AC client-side lag, however there are many forms of lag that are beyond our control, such as generic Internet lag. So all I can say is that we are working on the situation but cannot guarantee that you personally will see an improvement.

[Mat Icefalcon]

I really love the login screen with the snowman thing. Very colorfull and detailed and it showed some creativity. I hope to see more of this in the future. I actually thought I was going into a different game when I first saw this and took me by surprise.

Weepings weapons: The duffable part is very depressing. Prior to the change, it was finally fun to go pk and have a chance at killing others. First thing a mage does now is BL the WW, making it just as effective as a phantom weapon. There are more than enough threads and posts on this subject so I'll not rant on about this anylonger.

Melee D Imbues: When these first came out I thought this was awesome. Almost like a free tesserae for us high levels. Then this last update yous made them even a little bitty better. I was hoping for a bigger boost to make it comparable to the risk of the weapon imbues.

The Suits: I have seen them. Don't care for them. Seems to be in the wrong setting. I've heard that the quest was fun though, so I may yet just do it, just to do it.. but then give the suits to the local town crier. Ohh since Suits are now in the game.. Can ya implement a tank from WWII so that I can hop in and take out the drudge mafia leader???

Things I would love to see:

More armor imbues much like the jewelry ones. Except these imbues would produce a random minor/mod spell on the armor.

Make it possible to find wands/staffs/orbs with majors on them.

Incorporate Dolby Surround or some type of EAX tech into the game.

A built in interface for buffing. Everyone knows that this is tedious/time consuming especially on patch days when decal mem locs need to be updated.

Fix the trade bug to desktop thing.. It's so darn annoying.

How about implementing forges into towns much like in ac2 had??? This would bring life back to the towns and also give the tinkerers a bonus.

Keep up the good work. I'm sure alot of things happen that we don't even see up front. Looking forward to January's update.

[introp]

Olthoi Chasm: Very good fun. I'm a level 74 non-tank archer and have only been playing for six months. This is the first hard dungeon I've run without hearing a ton about from people. New (unexplored) dungeons are a blast, it turns out, and I like the mix of creatures inside. *Please* leave the translated notes givable if the potential for abuse is low. The first three notes (the only ones I can get at my level) are worth 1.35 million XP. I can earn more than that in fifteen minutes of hunting, so I can't see too much abuse happening, but it is *very* nice to have some form of givable XP for my vassals... a small token, but a visible 'thank you' to the people who are really helpful and kind. It's nice. :)

Suits, dresses, hats: The quest was really fun... good acting, good pulp writing, and good visuals. The suits and dresses are neat, but I could live without them if they left. Yes, they're OOC for role-players, but I don't see Dereth as being set in any particular part of Earth history. It's another world, another universe, and I'm willing to suspend my disbelief and adapt to the world, not force it to adapt to my ideas.

Missile attack changes: Pleasant.

Refulgent Bracelet: Cool quest with good visuals and an interesting story line. It leaves you hanging, wanting more.

All packs holding 24 items: Small, but nice.

[Ifuritah]

It's another world, another universe, and I'm willing to suspend my disbelief and adapt to the world, not force it to adapt to my ideas.

Very well said, I just hope this doesn't turn into Final Fantasy XXIII.

[Shao Majii]

Originally posted by introp
Yes, they're OOC for role-players, but I don't see Dereth as being set in any particular part of Earth history. It's another world, another universe, and I'm willing to suspend my disbelief and adapt to the world, not force it to adapt to my ideas.


This is my point: Dereth isn't Earth. It is another world in another universe. Therefore, elements of earth should not be present. The reason we play this game is to get away from Earth for a while, not to live an alternate Earth. If we wanted to do that, we'd play SIMS Online.

I don't particularly want to be reminded of work or anything of the sort when I play a game. This is why I don't play SIMS anything. I'm playing a game to get away and forget that I'm a computer junkie on the surface of Earth. The suits don't help that goal. They remind me of Earth. They remind me that I have to work for a living and that makes me think about salary, bills, outragously long phone calls on my cell phone and those people I really don't like at work. And people I run into at work. I don't want to think about those things. I want to think about that next quest, how I can help my friends, what's going on in Dereth, not Earth. So, your statement is well said, but I fail to see how it backs the suits. It furthers my point.

Perhaps you are willing to ignore it. That's fine. That's you. But what about those who play to get away from their work place's dress code? People who want to forget they have an interview for a job in the morning (hopefully they don't want to forget for too long :P ). We are playing to participate in a fantasy. The suits are the largest, most wide-spread, and most obvious steps towards adding content that comes from Earth; that place we are getting away from.

This is why I've decided to comment. The other items that remind us of RL are not so obvious or have an interesting and unique feel or appearence that don't drag us back to RL so easily. The suits however, are a direct use of something that exists in RL that could not be overlooked as something that makes sense to have on Dereth. There is no progressive design chain that works towards the classic "suit and tie" look that we have in RL. All prior elements of the game that were as wide-spread have been done in a unique way. For example, the wedding Rainment has it's own look that you don't find anywhere on Earth (people making them in RL patterned after the Dereth design doesn't count).

Ok, so snowmen are exactly like real snowmen other than the fact that they are alive. That's not so big a deal because it's kind of a joke. So the suits are a joke too you say? Not to people who wear them alot. It's a part of RL, everyday for some people. Snowmen are from Earth, but it's not everyday, it's not common and it's part of a fantasy and fun anyway. It brings about a grin when you see one IRL. A suit might do this if you don't wear one, but for those who do, it gives them a chance to role-play themselves in a game! Oooo... But I was under the impression that we aren't trying to be us on a different planet... I thought we were being someone ELSE on a different planet. Thus, my line of posts.

I do like other elements of this patch. Leather armor, long gloves, and the launch page stuff is nice. Love the Pack changes. But I have to bring up my point. I don't want this suit to become a trend in future patches. I have seen better things in prior patches in the past. I've been playing since mid 2000. I've seen lots of patches and lots of cool things. And lots of things that didn't please me that much. But of the things that I don't care for, the suit is the button pusher. Never before has something been so mundane that couldn't be ignored or reasonably explained. T-shirts at least have things on them that say "dereth" and don't really say much else. The suits don't even have that much. If you took them as they are, and showed them to someone who knew the lore, but had never played AC, they would ask what game it came from simply because it doesn't say Dereth other than the graphics engine. It has nothing to do with Dereth. So why is it here?

[PyroElf]

For a low content patch, this was very well done.

<3 the snowman quest especially =)

[Boaseter]

I am still waiting for some response as to why the VoD-changes took place.

For me, alot of fun got sucked out of VoD when these new creatures appeared..

people were allready avoiding bandies because they were slow to kill and didnt give the xp that other critters that took similar ammount of time to kill, gave, far from it.

[Paraduck]

Originally posted by PyroElf
For a low content patch, this was very well done.

<3 the snowman quest especially =) Low content? I think this is one of the largest in the past few months. :p

Elysa's Assasination Investigation
Olthoi Tunnels
Snowman Quest
Refrugent Bracelet

[Paraduck]

Originally posted by Boaseter
I am still waiting for some response as to why the VoD-changes took place.

For me, alot of fun got sucked out of VoD when these new creatures appeared..

people were allready avoiding bandies because they were slow to kill and didnt give the xp that other critters that took similar ammount of time to kill, gave, far from it. Personally, I think it stems from Aerbax's increasing involvement with Ler Rhan. He's a shadow, after all... Look at what Aerbax did to the Masters and Observers. Doesn't it make sense for Ler Rhan to do the same with his shadow minons?

BTW, loot on the Banderlings has been updated... I got about 5 pieces of loot off one. Worth it? Not really, but it's better than it was.

[HolloTip]

You guys are really killing the pvp in this game. Ask almost anyone on Darktide and they will tell you that they perfered the old days over all the new changes to the pvp system in the last year.

Letting weepings be loatherable really swung the advantages to the mages. I'm not sure what I should have expected, Darktide has always been the Red-headed step child of AC.

[Chainfx]

I took my noobie spear toon to get Tibri's Fire Spear anad Tibri wasn't there. and the fire spear itself isn't on a timer so I was able to pick up multiples for good money.
This was on the LC server. just thot I'd let you know.

I don't know how long it's been broken seeing as there probably aren't very many people that go in that dungeon.

Otherwise Great Patch! :)