Tell us what you think of the March event! [Archive]

Elare

03-10-2004, 01:13 PM

Awful, simply awful for PvP.

You've heard it all during our Dev chat and I want to know what you're going to do about it.

1) The Lures. WAY overpowered. Im sure you've seen the logs and what not. There isnt much to say about this. Dispells in April? Why wait that long? Who in their minds wants to use a Dispell? Shouldnt mages have an alternate spell that increases war damage that melees would HAVE to dispell in order to survive longer than 30 seconds. As is, with our vuln, a melee with Aegis, Magic D, warded GSC and health elixers can just plow through mages.

2)Spell words changed. Awful idea. Who is the genius behind these PvP implementations? PvP is yet again screwed. It is now impossible to kill someone now as a mage (yes impossible), unless you're a melee. Ohhh arc, Ill slide one direction, ooh a bolt is coming, time to fast strafe. With the predictability of this it just makes PvP become, boring, predictable, and monotenous.

3)S2H Nerf. Awful. While you may see it as an "exploit", it was needed just to keep people alive. Especially with this patch where melees hit like tanks, its a necessity. On Darktide where combat is close quarters or often massive group fights, the ability to gain back part of your health relatively quickly is without question needed. The penalty should be the stamina loss, not the time it takes to cast. If you want us to use the level 7, decrease the time.

I seriously hope the Dev Team takes into consideration what was talked about in the Dev chat. Next time, maybe we could get their "PvP Expert" to come join us and enlighten him.

L R

Wizz_FF

03-10-2004, 01:14 PM

I had a short spin in Vod before the restart, and the creatures I killed dropped loot I can live with, both to comp and build assets.

Also low WS high damage weapons. So far so good Ibn. :)

Just get the servers back up! lol

Defiance

03-10-2004, 01:17 PM

Patch is horrible. PVP is ruined. Mage vs Mage fights are (not fun) because now its easy as hell to dodge wars and would take your apponent falling asleep at his keyboard from bordom to actually end the fight. Absolutely no point in it. Group fights are pointless because once your lured your dead. More dispels wont fix this. It needs to be hotfixed and if anything all dispels taken out. Dispels dont add anything to the game besides more longated fights because you have to stop to revuln all over again. Your "pvp specialist" is (wrong) and should be shot.

Thanks for your time.

Erinyes

03-10-2004, 01:23 PM

For all the people complaining about the Lures, try a Blood Loather 7. Melees still can’t dispel those just like a mage can’t dispel a Lure 7. When level 7 dispels are put in game, mages will have the advantage again anyway since they don’t need to change what they have equipped. For those that just think I’m saying this because it benefits me, I play a Mage as well as a Melee.

Seriphyn

03-10-2004, 01:29 PM

It'd help if you read the complaints. Most of the damage being shown here is with a loather.

Kiril, you're silly. Lures were IG before this patch, plenty of thorough tests were done to prove our side. However, they were ignored and you simpletons cannot seem to wrap your heads around this concept.

Even a PK from MT was posting on how horrible this was and he was fighting in the one on one situation. I'd love to see how people deal with this in group pvp where Melees cannot be lured and hit for that kind of damage with loather, that's if you manage to get it off in time.

Influ

03-10-2004, 01:29 PM

i agree Def and maybe turbine should get someone in darktide to join there team the Ac devs seem to be let me put it nicely clueless :confused: *** smack**** now lets take out the problem the only reason this game is hard for melees is because of the dispells it is so easy to get Gems of stillness or and awakener and on a running mage it will be hard for a melee to hop out of combat mode pull out a wand back into combat mode and hope the mage hasn't already recalled to try and land a vuln SO TAKE OUT THE FREAKING gEMS GOOD GOD!

-iNFLU
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

ancient

03-10-2004, 01:30 PM

i was brittled and lured, but i lothared back, and STILL owned me.

(bad idea), what was the point of darktide-resistance irc chat...

You obviously ignored like 200 people.... OH WELL, looks like all my friends are quitting from AC.

Ibn

03-10-2004, 01:34 PM

Two comments so far: Regarding not getting any notification when a lure is cast on your armor, I am discussing that with the team right now.

Two: I'm not sure how you can relate Jason Bell's hiring to anything going on with AC at the moment -- he doesn't work on the live team.

Seriphyn

03-10-2004, 01:37 PM

I don't know who Jason Bell is, but who do you want us to be mad at. Obviously you guys can't tell your arse from your head considering all the time people put into doing cohesive damage tests and relating to your our concerns.

Funny how group pvp is destroyed just like we said, funny how things work out like that. Flat out hilarious that we know something about pvp on this server, I mean quite a few of us have only played there for 4+ years.

The worst part, which isn't funny, is that the players understand more about balance than you devs do and that is just disheartening.

Som|Blood

03-10-2004, 01:41 PM

Just got one timed wearing my gsc and baned rainment....

and I was lucky enough to get off a blood loather....

rebuffed...

started fighting again.....

got hit for 211 (after not even knowing I was lured)

stam to health...er **** I should have taken taht off the spell bar I forgot

dead again

See you all in a month or on hotfix day

Wizz_FF

03-10-2004, 01:50 PM

Maybe they are planning on using DT for the new world... :p

Changes look good for us NPK's though, hope they will fix your issues as well :)

Lionhart

03-10-2004, 01:52 PM

like i said before...

i found al 10 and 50 stuff, and wands with no mana C in OP...a high lvl place..

wasnt this supposed to be FIXED this patch???

response plz

kinslayer

03-10-2004, 01:53 PM

wow turbine you really liston to your playerbase it looks like.

1. We told you flat out that making armor debuffs was not good

2. We also told you to leave the transferr spells the way they were.

and when i say we i mean 99.9% of the people that posted on the march letter to the player

But nooooo you thought you were right. Who plays the game you are me? Gawd you guys are clueless.

Flynn

03-10-2004, 01:54 PM

Ok, first suggestion- create a separate feedback thread for PvP issues. PLEASE.

On a PvP related note though, it's obvious that many players are upset with there being separate spellwords for arcs and bolts, and it got me thinking. How about having the deception skill come into play here- if your deception is high enough, you're able to conceal your spellwords! The Cultists get to do it, why can't we??

Also, any chance of more items becoming ivoryable? I noticed the new Frore robe wasn't last month, and there's no mention of new uses for ivory anywhere. I haven't had a chance to check yet, but are buadren's ivoryable? I've been hoping for this for a while.

.:Blade:.

03-10-2004, 01:57 PM

just wanted to say thanks for making all mages buff bots and all archers mules, if there ever was a patch that needed undoing its this one. BL doesent do enough. If things stay the way they are, pvp and Dt are ruined. MS should not have sold AC back.

Servers of melees = boring.

kinslayer

03-10-2004, 01:59 PM

good idea Flynn! we need people like you working for turbine!

SteveJobsDT

03-10-2004, 02:05 PM

ok, i got in and played for awhile and all I can do is shake my head. You can't even tell if you get a lure put on your armor since there's no spell thing and nothing visually to show it. i ran into two sword guys... first thing i tried to do was fully inept their items so they couldn't land on me. while i was getting one debuffed the other guy landed though.. then i proceeded to get hit for an average of about 50 per poke by two different guys. I tried to BL them both but i couldn't get the spell in before i was dead (approx time = 3 sec). :(

patch sucks, worst one ever. i'm sick. taking the month off unless something happens SOON.

Defiance

03-10-2004, 02:05 PM

That deceptions not actually a bad idea except everyone will just max it and itll end up being the same as it is now except we will all have another skill to be trained/speced.

Ibn

03-10-2004, 02:15 PM

On getting a notification if someone casts a Lure/Brittlemail on your armor:

We are working on getting notification in for April. I've just confirmed this with srand and Zyrca.

Som|Blood

03-10-2004, 02:18 PM

which implies we'll still have armor debuffs in april

Defiance

03-10-2004, 02:24 PM

I dont understand why a company would go against what the public wants. Its like ford taking away power stearing. This is insanity. Your future patches will not fix this. More dispells will not fix this. Better armor will not fix this. Adding spells is not needed. More ways to dispel is not needed. Finding more reasons to fight IS needed. You are destroying what little is left of this game.

Meuzzin

03-10-2004, 02:41 PM

Ibn,

Just curious...

What makes you guys think anyone would want to play a whole month with this half implimented PVP dynamic? Why can't you guys just put it in when it's completed? Seriously. I mean, when you guys pile into a meeting room to discuss these things, don't you look at it from different angles?

Just kind of disappointed in AC lately. I'm also very curious to know what drives these changes. Although, looking back, it seems Turbine has always been playing the balancing game. Always playing it in the wrong direction.

Cpl_Punishment

03-10-2004, 02:44 PM

Remember, when you see the mage start the casting for Blood Loather, hit him as hard as you can until it's cast since the animation takes so long, then just switch to another weeping, rinse, repeat.

magusofatlan

03-10-2004, 02:44 PM

SteveJobsDT - I'd like to see what a combat with you and another good mage against a lone swordsman do. If he waxes you both easily, then there is a serious problem. If you two take him out quickly, then you ought to know the updates are fair. If you two have a hard time taking one swordsman out (the battle lasts a long time or one of the two mages die), then I'd say there is a problem.

The problem here is that there aren't many conclusive tests done yet. People try 1-2 fights that they post on the boards, show only the mega-hits against them (by the swordsman), and call the changes ****. More testing is needed.

Will of Stone

03-10-2004, 02:46 PM

My level 138 Archer was just evaded 23 of 30 shots by a Titan Lugian. That is fully buffed with 7's, with a ten times tinked rended 166 mod bow. The 7 hits did between 45-80 pierce damage each. But my level 73 Melee, with a 5 times tinked slash rended sword 4 hits em. And never whiffed. Not once. But at least I now have to contend with getting one hit with 295 health because of brittlemails.

I have supported the devs and Turbine in every post I have made. Until now.

You would have been better off with NO PATCH, than with this mess. As far as I am concerned, I can now turn my two highest level characters, level 128 and 138, that took me over 2 years to build, into mules. Because not only do they die easily, but they cannot replenish their 12k di's, the same level di's I have used for over a year and a half, because the monsters still drop **** loot and minimal peas.

Thanks for removing me from the game.

Will of Stone/Mordachai

Defiance

03-10-2004, 02:46 PM

IBN please check your pm from me asap, its very important.

Lavigne

03-10-2004, 02:57 PM

i dont seem to understand why people are crying nerf for archers. if you can get your lure on anybody, melee/mage, your bow will hit HARD. hardly a nerf, granted you'llget hit hard too, but quit lookin at the down and try to look at the upside.

Ghent

03-10-2004, 03:04 PM

I guess that's the closest thing to a confirmation we'll get that these changes are in for good. I guess we should be thankful for that much, so at least we can know whether to cancel our accounts.

Ghent

03-10-2004, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by Lavigne
i dont seem to understand why people are crying nerf for archers. if you can get your lure on anybody, melee/mage, your bow will hit HARD. hardly a nerf, granted you'llget hit hard too, but quit lookin at the down and try to look at the upside.

Because melees have an aegis shield out most of the time, and so the lure won't work on their BP.

Addiction

03-10-2004, 03:13 PM

Canceling right now, and suggesting it to my 4k monarchy.

This patch is an utter joke, and entirely gimps pvp.

You say you have a "overall plan" and this is the first part, but why not add the whole thing at once, instead of gimping pvp until the whole thing is done.

Defiance

03-10-2004, 03:18 PM

lol ive never seen so many people trying to get rid of their accounts in my life.

Will of Stone

03-10-2004, 03:18 PM

Darn you, Turbine! The world has just come to an end......

You just did something that made me agree with Addiction.

And that is a bad sign indeed :-)

Will of Stone/Mordachai

Grinless

03-10-2004, 03:24 PM

Turbine, do the game a favor and kill these boards...

At the very least, never, ever, listen to all the whines here. As a rule of thumb: When the players ask for something, it's usually the last thing the game need.

Your devs know better than all the kiddoes here, they really do...

Trust them and them only and, maybe, we will see a new Dereth rise from the ashes of this one.

Take care,

Addiction

03-10-2004, 03:28 PM

Posters like that are what make games like Shadowbane.

Your devs for the most part have not spent hours per day gaming for 10+ years.

GAMING

Not writing code or developing art, GAMING. Gamers make good games, and you may wanna start hiring some. (Side note: I am currently between jobs, and accepting offers ;D)

Will of Stone

03-10-2004, 03:31 PM

To those detractors who keep saying we PvP'ers didn't know what we are talking about, check out this fight log. This was a MAGE, not a meleer...........a MAGE using a melee weapon.

http://vnboards.ign.com/Darktide/b5152/65625315/?8

Then tell me this hasn't broken PvP badly.

Will of Stone/Mordachai

Grinless

03-10-2004, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by Addiction
Posters like that are what make games like Shadowbane.

Your devs for the most part have not spent hours per day gaming for 10+ years.

GAMING

Not writing code or developing art, GAMING. Gamers make good games, and you may wanna start hiring some. (Side note: I am currently between jobs, and accepting offers ;D)

Newsflash friend:

Game development is hard work and few are skilled/knowledgeable enough to be really good at it. If you're one of this few, good for you. This board is great for whining, ranting, and venting off, granted, but I somehow doubt any revolutionnary game development theory will ever come out of them.

Go Turbine, put AC on the shelve again, bring the newbie back and let those who are to be blamed fo AC past failure (read the actual community) bring their venom to the countless other online games out there...

Seriphyn

03-10-2004, 03:46 PM

My friend is in school right now at Digipen with aspirations of being a game designer.

He surely sympathizes with them Grinless, but even he understands (being a long time DTer) that these changes are rediculous and unbased. They have either done no real testing or have no clue period.

Frieze

03-10-2004, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by Kilmor
Not giving Brittlemail an animation/spell effect or at least a warning to the player forces us again to use decal. Those defs will have a warning for us in 2 days.
Seriously, how can you add this and NOT put in a warning?

SPELLWORDS ........................... :eek:

Oh, and Seri, I'm in school for that as well. From the looks of these changes there is nothing so drastic that it appears untested. I'd have to say your friend is probably biased because he's a longtime DTer :p

Seriphyn

03-10-2004, 03:55 PM

wow
wow
wow
wow

In a group combat everytime you see those words you should automatically assume it's on you?

When someone imp or vulns you, it tells you that you were imp/vulned etc.

Why should this be any different?

Grinless

03-10-2004, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by Seriphyn
My friend is in school right now at Digipen with aspirations of being a game designer.

Good for him !

Now go tell him that if he really got any talent for his chosen profession that he should, at least partially, see the wisdom behind Turbine latest patchs.

You do know they're not doing all this to **** you ?

Turbine been in the online gaming industry for quite some years now and they DO know better than you,me or your friend what's good for their game.

bacardi_breezer

03-10-2004, 03:57 PM

What has this game turned into!!! i am completely and uterly disgusted in what this game has been turned into ! I think shadow bane will actually may have a chance to do better now! ... I am a melee myself and i even know this is dumb! THERE IS NO SKILL IN PVP ANYMORE ITS WHO EVER CAN VULN AND LURE/BRITTLE FIRST!! I also would like to be able to stay alive for a a few min in a PK battle

IM so disapointed i donno what els to say..... In my opinion and from what im hearing you will not have as many subscribers this following month ! including me and my second account!

goood bye!!

hmmmm what other MMORPG game is reccommended? someone gimme a tell !

Darthmagus

03-10-2004, 03:57 PM

If I do recall correctly and please correct me if im wrong but didnt over 1000 AC players complain and predict this would happen like a week ago? Hmmmmm Maybe we can try and simplify this for Turbine, because they obviously didnt hear us.

THIS WILL RUIN THE GAME is now: THIS HAS RUINED THE GAME!

Turbine I know its hard to hear with your head so far up your a** but please try and listen to us. I would say you have maybe a few days to get a hotfix in place before you lose everyone!

thanks

Frieze

03-10-2004, 04:00 PM

My boyfriend is a 130ish mace. He has spellwords on all the time and he knows everything from banes to loather to wars, etc. I've seen people try for several minutes to loather his ONE weeping mace. He just puts it away.

Oh and, in case this wasn't clear - there is an animation for casting item spells. It's a bit short, but it's a spell wind-up. *shrug*

People who don't want to learn spellwords or who don't want to take the proper precautions when they hear spells they don't want cast on themselves will use decal.

But saying it is forced is just stupid.

magusofatlan

03-10-2004, 04:05 PM

>>To those detractors who keep saying we PvP'ers didn't know what we are talking about, check out this fight log. This was a MAGE, not a meleer...........a MAGE using a melee weapon.<<

I agree that the combat in that link was harsh. Both item debuffs and both life debuffs cast on a fully buffed mage (or archer), and single-shot by an unknown level mage using UA.

I believe part of the problem has to do with the banes being capped at 2.0, but then the debuff of the bane being taken off the 2.0 rather than whater it would have been - which could have been anywhere from about 2.0 to 3.0 or more.

If they made the BP non-debuffable except by Tattercoat (aka, no XXX Bait spells), it wouldn't be so bad.

My point is that people are doing ONE test each, and then proclaiming the end of the world. Real testing - and PROOF to the developers will be a series of combat tests to show that out of X situations, 90% of them have the meleer winning. However, no one shows all the fights, and to be honest, it appears that all of the normal fights, or those where mages win - are being concealed to overemphasize the killing power of meleers.

In that link, we don't have much good information from Phrozt, but the fact that he only clipped out that one combat tells me that he's hiding information on the rest of his combats.

Put another way, if I'm one of the development team, I'm going to run my own series of tests with other developers, trying out 2-on-1, 1-on-1 meleer only, meleer-on-mage situations etc. and writing down the results in a matrix, and using those for decisions rather than people who aren't willing or able to back up - FULLY - the results. Good or bad for the players.

But that ONE example of the UA one-hitting a guy does look bad.

Aztek

03-10-2004, 04:29 PM

The problem seems to be turbines vision and the vision of its playerbase are heading in opposite directions.

How much happier would the playerbase be if we went back three months to pre loather weepings and Turbine just gave us something to fight for?

People are pissed for many reasons. Tinkered armor and suits that took months to aquire are now worthless. Fights will turn into massive debuff and dispell sessions.

According to the vision of the future Ill have to find more bows to imbue and tinker to just have people laugh at me as I tickle them with a non weeping weapon trying to make my archer be able to compete with a mage. Oh and he will probably loather me anyway out of fear I may have enough item magic to actually be able to land a lure on him.

I read the vision, see the patch and watch my guild mates quit one after another. I just cant help but shake my head at this giant cluster fandango.

I do appreciate all the info being passed out and the better communication but... ahh never mind I give up.

Cpl_Punishment

03-10-2004, 04:29 PM

If you REALLY want to learn about the patch and the state of PvP, go to the Vn-DT boards.

Grinless

03-10-2004, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by Cpl_Punishment
If you REALLY want to learn about the patch and the state of PvP, go to the Vn-DT boards.

Where, It's well-known, all the intelligent and mature posters goes... :rolleyes:

Ibn

03-10-2004, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by Flynn
On a PvP related note though, it's obvious that many players are upset with there being separate spellwords for arcs and bolts, and it got me thinking. How about having the deception skill come into play here- if your deception is high enough, you're able to conceal your spellwords! The Cultists get to do it, why can't we??

That's actually pretty interesting... I'll suggest it to the team. Would make Deception and Assess Person considerably more valuable in PvP.

Cpl_Punishment

03-10-2004, 04:38 PM

Answer me this: why should I spec war with 28 credits when I can spec sword & Magic D with the same amount of credits, do the same amount of damage faster and resist more spells in the process?

Taker_AC

03-10-2004, 04:48 PM

Check your links on the Rollout Article. The Follow-up, In Concept, and In Developement links don't work.

Seriphyn

03-10-2004, 04:50 PM

Something stuck me as sad reading these. I was reading Aztek's response because often he says the things I'd like to say better than I can say them. So I'm reading through and the last sentence of his posts is cut off by himself saying he gives up.

Things like that should be a huge sign that people are giving up and frustrated that we're ignored. That you're not really hearing us.

Remember in White Men Can't Jump when he says, no you're listening to Jimmy, but you're not hearing him. That's sort of how I feel about your vision and ours.

Savari

03-10-2004, 04:50 PM

Oh **** IBN. NO =( GRRRRR Thats sutpid don't go to the dev team with that stupidity. Go to the dev team with the following:

"We screwed up guys. We should do a hotfix and remove loathering and luring. Also with the spellwords for arc and bolt showing differently. We should also consider either decreasing speed or removing caps on the stam to health transfers in this hotfix."

Thats how you solve this. Don't be ignorant please.

Jet-eye-nite

03-10-2004, 04:51 PM

#1 I thought you were fixing the zharl necklace ( not)
#2 Loot in 80+ still junk
#3 I seem to be mobbed by anything on radar now
#4 What salvage I found although higher ws was trash salvage ,where is the steel,granite,mahog,iron ?
#5 I was getting hit while mobs were on other side of hill while i was in a valley ,but was unable to return the fire the same way ?
In 1 trip to 80+ its hard to make total eval but what I see doesn't sit well with me . I by the way am a solo player . I had posed a question on dev board about player lvls vs amount of players ,I myself could understand your thinking better if I knew that % ( of +126, 100-126, 80-100, 50-80,below) . :(

Jyiiga

03-10-2004, 05:00 PM

....

Yusuki

03-10-2004, 05:09 PM

The new weapon is cool as hell. Too bad I can't wield it.

Neat armor, too. Too bad I can't wear it.

Nice crown! Whoops, can't wear that, either.

Love the PvP changes. Except, like 80-90% of the population, I don't do PvP.

At least I can actually wield the staff. Looks like it'll be a nice stick to bust out when I'm doing my banes. Otherwise, probably won't need it or want it.

Phase 2 of the loot changes seem to help. Haven't decided yet if the help is a little or a lot, but anything's better than last month.

Will have to make another newb to see how Yaraq changed.

Is there any ETA on content that'll be exciting for characters that aren't over L100? Just wondering.

Yusuki

03-10-2004, 05:14 PM

Just realized. Am sitting here thinking, "Hm, overall patch feedback? Well, it sucks less than last month's patch."

That's the best I could do. "It sucks less than it used to."

High praise? Or weary resignation? Bleh.

SilentDrainerDT

03-10-2004, 05:17 PM

I play on darktide as silent drainer. My PP GSA, purple olthoi helmet, asherons rainament, gloves, and sollerets were put in my housing chest just before the shutdown as i usually put away my stuff before I log off. Now its gone, all gone, everything i own of value. Gone.

Shakra

03-10-2004, 05:24 PM

A hookable portal...finally :) Hopefully we'll see more of these. I hope I can do the quest again for the sword though...

One note...I believe the "eye" in the portal is facing the wrong direction. Any hook I try and place it...it goes the wrong way...a little bit like the undead that faced into the corner.

Off to explore the patch some more...

-Shakra

P.S. Still waiting for a response for an issue from the January event. http://forums.ac.turbinegames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3769

Defiance

03-10-2004, 05:28 PM

PvP wise pre loather weepings everything was pretty much balanced. This patch makes pvp lame. 1 on 1 is lame, you now know where to slide every time meaning to get hit you have to close your eyes. Melees now will one-three shot you with 2 spells landed on you.

IF you believe this patch did ANYTHING good for pvp then you must be a pklite who does 1 on 1 and has no skill at all. The skill in mage vs mage was developing a cast that would help you dodge whatever was coming at you and getting the right timing down. Now its simple, you see one word you slide right, you see another word you tap away on zxc. Beyong, BEYONG lame.

This isnt whining. This is stating facts. If you dont agree then you have no clue what dt pvp is. Your just another emoting 0.o that should go crawl back in his dungeon and whine about how a macro is taking all your kills.

Rizben

03-10-2004, 05:38 PM

all 3 of my accounts where canceled today . have fun turbine ..

for anyone looking for an up and coming game here you go

http://www.lineage2.com/

knopp

03-10-2004, 05:47 PM

Where's all the 1337 DT code monkeys?

I dont know about you, but if you dislike AC so much, get together and MAKE your own game. It doesnt even have to be a MMO, just a quake style fighting game with swords instead of rail-guns.

You can only whine and complain so long until you realize that Turbine really cares less what you have to say... (aka AC2)

Someone make a msg board over at gamers.com to get all the codemonkeys together and get to work.

Who knows, YOU may be the one to put Turbine out of business.

Khaz-Modaan

03-10-2004, 05:51 PM

Critical hit! You slash Khaz-Modaan for 198 points of slashing damage!

Full power, trained UA.

Critical hit! You slash Khaz-Modaan for 124 points of slashing damage!

With an average of 46ish hits, against al 592 BP 1184 to slashing, UP (buffed).

After loather.

Oh yeah... and these are level 6 debuffs on the armor.

How many numbers do we need to come up with to prove that this was a really stupid idea, Ibn? Hell, if you need someone to help you test this kind of stuff, I'm sure you'd find more than enough people who would be willing, right here on your forums.

Trekman

03-10-2004, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by ancient
Last patch was worst patch ever, this patch has become worst patch ever...

PVP IS FUBARD....

I just got hit for 253 by a melee, thru al 662 amuli coat, fully banned and prot, then lothard, another hit and i died...

Stupid game this has become, well looks like Ill sell my account like everyone else.

Cry me a river - a mighty mage (?) got killed by a melee and is calling for mommie :D
Weren't you fast enough to chain-harm the melee down ? Aren't there some exploits at your disposal like Jumpspin or so ?

Can I have your stuff before you let the door hit your back ?

Hi Khaz :D

I do not PK - nevertheless I couldn't resist.....let the flames come to me....

But I admit - I would not be surprised if Turbine *really* screwed PK now (would not be the first time).
But you have to understand that posts like yours won't help the PK scene, they just provoke posts like mine...

Modzyan

03-10-2004, 06:01 PM

It was disheartening to log on and see that my Periapt of Endless Sight is still bugged!! I was hopping with the March patch, they would have fixed things from the February patch! Any idea when this will be fixed??

Khaz-Modaan

03-10-2004, 06:07 PM

Lol, hi Trek :)

Yeah, I know how YOU feel, but then, you never cared about PvP in the first place... at least as far back as I can remember.

Auroara

03-10-2004, 06:08 PM

OMG all I can say is WHAT ARE U PEOPLE DOING??? let us all on the joke now.

*yes its a lil hard getting the Lure off but that can be fixed with a lil exp in item or a debuff in Item

*Yes you can wear Covenant or Othoi armor but how long has it been since there was decent Cove? esp for a mage

*Armor and Loot still isnt correct

*We all have to get used to the change but I think with NCsoft and the makers of Everquest bringing new Games out, you guys are gonna have a run for your money.

Elare

03-10-2004, 06:10 PM

"AC1 : Trekman the Axeman - Senior Skullsplitter of Solclaim"

Please, everyone is entitled to their opinions. But honestly your PvP input won't mean anything and you won't be FULLY informed on the PvP scene unless you live it (DT).

That is all. *huggles* </3 :S

Trekman

03-10-2004, 06:11 PM

Originally posted by Khaz-Modaan
Lol, hi Trek :)

Yeah, I know how YOU feel, but then, you never cared about PvP in the first place... at least as far back as I can remember.

You answered while I edited and added

"But I admit - I would not be surprised if Turbine *really* screwed PK now (would not be the first time).
But you have to understand that posts like yours won't help the PK scene, they just provoke posts like mine..."

I still s*uck at PK - and I admit it. That's why I do not care.
But I witnessed months and years of unbalanced PK with huge advantages for mages (when mages did NOT complain about balance issues).
I know there are still things like Jumpspin (don't know about Fastcast) as advantage for mages.
And when I have to read posts like the one I quoted I simply cannot hold back...

Elare - please do not try to patronize me. DT is one of EIGHT servers, and frankly I do not need to actually PK to have an opinion and to voice it. I admit though I cannot present solutions. But that is not my job - it's Turbine's, based on PKers' inputs. And posts like the one I quoted won't be helpful.

Zero_Washu

03-10-2004, 06:12 PM

Loot sucks.

I guess the scrolls are nice, too bad al50 leather armor is on the same mob.

guess I am saving 14.95x3 this cycle.

Tell you what, when you get done screwing it up post a message then I will pay you.

Defiance

03-10-2004, 06:15 PM

Problem is it was pretty balanced, and they messed it up in 2 patches. 1 made it a little unfair to the melees, then this one just totally kills the point of pvping. They feel the next patches will fix that, but problem is it was fixed, there was nothing wrong. Now we are going to have to do more prep for fights and wishing, more dispels prolongs the fun battle. More inepts/lures/vulns/gems doesnt make pvp fun. The fight is what its about and they took that from us.

As its been said many many times...Dont fix whats not broken...It took you yrs to get it right and a couple months to ruin it all. I dont understand you people at all.

Khaz-Modaan

03-10-2004, 06:16 PM

Past unbalancing doesn't mean that they weren't getting close to pretty freaking perfect on balance for melee/mage fights.

Buuut... they had to go and screw it up.

I know you live to throw sand in people's pants, Trek, so I'm not terribly bothered by your postin ;)

KPD157

03-10-2004, 06:26 PM

I ran around some places and killed some stuff and I am happy to say that I finally after a few months on DT will be able to get some level VI and VII scrolls without killing myself with SIK's or having to trade for them :)

Thank you Turbine for making scrolls appear on creatures that are high level be more appropriate to thier level :)

Even thought its very random yet with Loot I love the changes and I think your on the right track :)

Loot is indeed more useable and that is what a solo character needs :)

Can't wait to see how you continue to balance PK in the Future and all and I Beleive this will be a Great 3 or 4 months as you guys get into the Helm of this Ship Sailing for the Stars :)

A Simple Man

03-10-2004, 06:28 PM

I went through the Blackmire Temple quest with a group of people. When we got to the end where the eyes kept draining us, 3 of the people were kill by the draining but I managed to survive til the boss was killed. When we tried to advance to the final room to get the loot, I was unable to go through. One of the people that died made it back and got through (I think) and 1 guy that wasn't being drained got through. Is this a bug or is there something that some of us missed that could have caused this?

mesc

03-10-2004, 06:38 PM

Ibn, Stop skirting the real issues here. Im not going to repeat them, you should have an idea what they are by now.

Why the hell do you release patches that are half baked? This is the second patch in a row you give us an incomplete patch.

Why dont you listen to the PvP community. Infact, why didn't you run these idea's by the people it affects most?

Why do you people introduce **** only to find out its overpowered, then rather than take it from the game you try to fix it by introducing something new?

^ put that paragraph on rinse and repeat and you have the current status of AC.

Finally, what really pisses me off about this forum??
Turbines blatant ignorance to the subjects that actually matter.

[Edit: yea you're right. Ibn isn't to blame, its turbine itself :/]

Defiance

03-10-2004, 06:41 PM

I wouldnt take it all out on ibn, its a group effort of huge mistakes.

Btw the only good thing ive noticed recently is envoys, those guys respond quick. The old admins you could wait 4 hrs and be thankful to get a reply.

Orion

03-10-2004, 06:42 PM

I sent you a PM. Can you tell me exactly what happened at the stage of the quest you were in.

Defiance

03-10-2004, 06:44 PM

Yes i was on this quest and this guy ran into me, lured my chest plate and i got one shotted.

Lashar

03-10-2004, 06:47 PM

I remember the days after hollows came out and the balance was screwy, I remember the days when level 7 wars came out and balance was screwy, I remember when Comp bows came out and balance was screwy but...........

This by far is the worse POS patch I have ever in my entire time on AC have ever seen. What was Turbine thinking when they put this c**p in. Did they think that the balance would not be that bad????

The only way for mages to even come close to remotely being able to survive the BS damage that melees are doing was the Stam to health spells which GUESS WHAT????????? They are nerfed also.

This game is on the last legs of what could have been a long empire and Turbine is quickly helping it along. Enjoy AC all if you can take the BS that it has become.

Ernie

03-10-2004, 06:48 PM

just a quake style fighting game with swords instead of rail-guns.

Everyone runs around with swords as it is. I know the patch is already bad, because yesterday before the patch I was hitting a melee for 80's with lvl 7 wars and I was hit for 140+ by him.

Polgarae

03-10-2004, 07:03 PM

its pointless to be a mage anymore .. we are being nerfed slowly patch by patch or changed to mules because we cant pvp, quest, hunt and buff without eating lots of 44k a piece plats on the present loot system and not having share loot to cover our expenses. We are forced to not vun/debuff for non mages because we cant hit over 1k and usually its 300 - 700 before melees kill and LOOT. Our fighting and protection against things is now changed and all the time spent tinkering and building up skills is practically worthless with the BP debuffing.

Its getting harder to stay in game and watch people leaving on a daily basis unless thats what is wanted for all the high lvls to get fed up so that there isnt 126+ in game anymore.. especially mages cuz they were nerfed out of existance. I used to play the game because its fun, then it was because of those in it.. but they are starting to leave on a daily basis and I could use the money each month.

The biggest example is Gman.. mage resistant.. I got a black robe on my wall from a melee who ivoried it and I cant wear it but them

makes me wonder how much they laugh when they give us things and take them away.. let us work on stuff for months or years and nerf it in a single patch.. I used to laugh saying they went on bender and made up some crazy stuff and mazes.. but Im starting to think .. they are just sadistic. 3/20 is my ac birtday for 3 yrs.. not sure there will be a 4th.

Wonder what ac will do without full time mages ?

btw.. heaven forbid we lose server when an admin/envoy comes to check on us for ucming .. instant ban or mark .. guilty until proven innocent. With them being invisible, we have to watch what we say even joking around or get banned cuz they may feel its a violation when its private between 2 individuals. Your gonna nerf or ban ac out of existance if we have no recourse or to be able to fight for our innocence when accused or a chance to explain. I have gone to id somethig in trade and booted instantly.. what if that happens when questioned by admin? it means.. Im banned because I logged or left the game.

SCM

03-10-2004, 07:04 PM

The Portalspace / Invoker part of the quest is now restricted to 70+.

Does this mean that beyond the making of the Buadren, you need to be lvl 70+ to attempt this quest?

Or,

Does it mean that only lvl 70+ will be able to obtain the Invoker with the other levels permitted to participate in the quest?

We have this scheduled for March 20 & I would appreciate an early reply.

Thanks.

zeroinsDT

03-10-2004, 07:09 PM

Allright... Did you test the effect of this at all

I currently play a maxed mage 391 hp so i decided to duel a melee friend test this new lure stuff i was fully baned and buffed in sharded gsa and after lures and vulns i was 1 shot for 390 hp? and 200 ish hits the other times no way i could possibliy live i wont be playing untill this is fixed.

Davidge

03-10-2004, 07:11 PM

SCM, run out today to the Aun Settlement . . . the answers you seek may be directly observed if you can get into the first portal.

I have mixed feelings on the changes, going to reserve comment until later.

knopp

03-10-2004, 07:24 PM

I meant swords (archaic weapons) instead of guns (conventional weapons).

Can have every tupe of AC weapon, just make it a better PK system.

Dom on TD

03-10-2004, 07:26 PM

I haven't been able to get in yet, so I came here to see what everyone else had to say. Ibn, Can I ask 1 big favor of you guys?
Can you give DT their own forum each month? Have the normal thread, and then give them one labeled, "Whine about the PvP enhancements here." I just don't get it. You don't do anything with only whites in mind, and everything you do for red/pink blows up in your face. Why not give us content, and let the whiners, err Darktide, do what they do. Whine, camp lifestones, and UCM. It makes me sick to know I play the same game as these "players".

Defiance

03-10-2004, 07:30 PM

You consider what white dots do "playing"? Im sorry to hear that.

2-legit

03-10-2004, 07:47 PM

hahah I’m not canceling I’m ebaying lol I cant believe how incompetent turbine is. I swear can you guy’s even hand feed yourselves. In the few months you had the game you’ve managed to ruin almost every positive aspect of it. Not only are you turning it into a eq/ac2 whore of a game you managed to take every ounce of skill that was req to pvp and threw it out the window. If you cant see its stupid for a melee to hit harder then a war mage someone had some good smoke when they had you.........All you have to do is leave pvp alone and it would still be 10x better then it is now. I cant wait till you see how many people cancelled there accounts I for one know 20 accounts that are gone between some people in rl that play. WHY NOT ASK DT BEFORE YOU IMPLEMENT PVP CHANGES.... you have a whole server that does nothing but pvp but yet you still take the word of white servers and your bm with missile employee that works for you. Quit ****ing up the game already.

Cpl_Punishment

03-10-2004, 07:48 PM

[No personal attacks, please]This patch was all about PvP, which is the heart and sole of DT, then you get pissed when DTers come to complain about the patch because it affects EVERYTHING we do. Go complain about not having a divorce quest instead of complaining about DTers on this thread.

.:Blade:.

03-10-2004, 07:53 PM

Turbine is NOT going to change the item debuffs, no matter how much you try to explain what a royal F### over it is, its simple they dont give a S###.

I suggest if your a mage or archer to do the following:

.................................................. ...........................
1. Must get an unbuffable BP! (Olthoi or Cov).
2. Learn stam to hp 4.
3. Or Quit. (I heard Shadowbane is improving.)
.................................................. ............................

All though the patch sucks for pvp, a quick hotfix would make a world of diff.

TURBINE:

YOU MUST MAKE THE ARC AND THE BOLT HAVE THE SAME NAME!

That little fix would make the patch 75% less FUBAR.

You should be thankfull for the feedback we give you, otherwise we would just quit and you not knowing why, instead of giving you a chance to fix it, AC is not the only game on the market...

H0locron

03-10-2004, 08:39 PM

Devs-

I'm sure this has been posted quite a few times already, I wanted to post my own experience with this new change.

My main is a lvl 98 Swordsman. He's Spec in Sword/Melee/Lore/LP and trained in Item Tink/Item Enchant/Critter Enchant/Mana C/Healing. Innate 20/10 Focus/Self.

Now for the 3+ yrs I've played this game, H2M 1 was the only way to buff my characters. Carrying tons of elixirs is out of the question, I alrdy carry 50 the's and stam for fighting purposes. Considering I'm a melee, and not a mage it's hard enough buffing as it is and takes at least 5-7 mins with all my glourious fizzles.

With these new changes to H2M 1 you have now put my character in the position of having to rely on buffbots to be able to buff in a somewhat reasonable time. As a melee, I should not be expected to have life magic, yet you have now forced this onto all melee without it. My Mana C is 201 base, which gets my character perhaps 1 spell, 2 if I'm lucky, out of the max 50 mana I now receive from H2M 1, from 277 Health at that.

Your justification of having made this change is that H2M is better than Health 1, still makes no sense to me. You're losing Half of an entire pool + mana cost to receive a % to another pool. Health 1 uses a bit of mana only to recover a bit of health, I still can't see the comparison you're drawing here. That's half an entire pool and you're capping it at 50?

The argument that changing it to balance with the higher levels of H2M and make them more viable options does nothing more than hurt those w/o life magic. The cap of 50 mana will do nothing more than force those of us without life magic to seek more buffbots to expedite our already long buffing process. Understandable that higher level spells should be more beneficial, but nerfing the lower end is just that, a nerf. Raise the % on the higher, don't nerf the lower to force those to carry around tons of stamina elixirs or rations and Ulgrims Stein.

That's the only alternative for my character now, is to carry the extremely heavy rations and use Ulgrim's stein. My main is lvl 98 for crying outloud, I'm expected to switch to some life magic hybrid to deal with this or carry a ton of more weight to try and make the process less tedious?

Bah I'm too ticked over the implementation of this to bother now. IMO it was a bad call, and forces characters without life magic to seek buffbots, which IMO is always a bad idea. The casting difference now in Critter will hardly make a difference either as even then I'm still casting perhaps 1 spell, healing full 277 life, to just get 50 mana back out.

There's just something wrong with that IMO.

Sabu

03-10-2004, 08:44 PM

^ anyone who has life is not gonna be casting a spell for mana at level 1.

Oo I cant wait to try out some new quests :)

Sparkitup

03-10-2004, 08:45 PM

Man I just played and wore al 452 base celdon bp , buff with 7's = 672 + 20 al from rainment and major frost ward on greeves and I got hit in the chest for a 258 crit, ty guys for ruining this awesome game, im cancelling my account now and will come back if u remove this foolish feature from the game

H0locron

03-10-2004, 08:47 PM

Sabu---

My point there, why make these changes in the lst place? It just hurts those w/o Life magic.

Sabu

03-10-2004, 08:48 PM

Originally posted by Defiance
You consider what white dots do "playing"? Im sorry to hear that.

wow... he didnt put down pkl!

Sabu

03-10-2004, 08:49 PM

Originally posted by 2-legit
hahah I’m not canceling I’m ebaying lol I cant believe how incompetent turbine is. I swear can you guy’s even hand feed yourselves. In the few months you had the game you’ve managed to ruin almost every positive aspect of it. Not only are you turning it into a eq/ac2 whore of a game you managed to take every ounce of skill that was req to pvp and threw it out the window. If you cant see its stupid for a melee to hit harder then a war mage someone had some good smoke when they had you.........All you have to do is leave pvp alone and it would still be 10x better then it is now. I cant wait till you see how many people cancelled there accounts I for one know 20 accounts that are gone between some people in rl that play. WHY NOT ASK DT BEFORE YOU IMPLEMENT PVP CHANGES.... you have a whole server that does nothing but pvp but yet you still take the word of white servers and your bm with missile employee that works for you. Quit ****ing up the game already.

white worlds also complained too.

Sabu

03-10-2004, 08:52 PM

h0l I agree. I was trying to point out how this would have no effect watsoever on any mages really. It only hampers people who save themselves 12 skill credits at a price in buffing speed.(now severly worse according to what you said)

Chubasco

03-10-2004, 08:53 PM

As stated by AC Billing:
Asheron`s Call Dark Majesty Unsubscribe
Cancellation successful.

Your subscription for Asheron`s Call Dark Majesty will expire as follows:

Monthly Renewal
Date Started: Mar 4 2004 11:18AM
Date Expired: Apr 4 2004 11:18AM

DrCykosis

03-10-2004, 09:04 PM

Royaly T'ed on this one half die geting there then rest get 1 Shoted in the last dungeon , Or Idiots start pushing buttons after it's killed and everyone Dies? I and a Few other's gave up with Bodies still in there! :mad:

P.S. after giveing up a few of us just loged out of game!

telgar

03-10-2004, 09:08 PM

with several real life projects begining to intrude on my time you just made it really easy for me to cancel all 3 of my accounts.....

see ya

Signalerror

03-10-2004, 09:14 PM

*OFFICIAL MASTERCARD DT PARODY*
Spec sword... 16 skill credits.
Trained Life... 12 skill credits.
Trained item... 8 skill credits.

being able to kill a fully buffed, baned and warded mage in 2 hits?

... Pure and utter bs ...

There are some things in game you shouldnt be able to do,
But for everything else, just count on the devs to mess it up.

Got it devs?

Ares Blackheart

03-10-2004, 09:27 PM

WELL SAID!!!

"*OFFICIAL MASTERCARD DT PARODY*
Spec sword... 16 skill credits.
Trained Life... 12 skill credits.
Trained item... 8 skill credits.

being able to kill a fully buffed, baned and warded mage in 2 hits?

... Pure and utter bs ...

There are some things in game you shouldnt be able to do,
But for everything else, just count on the devs to mess it up.

Got it devs?"

WELL SAID!!!

H0locron

03-10-2004, 09:34 PM

"This change is intended to increase the value and usage of low-level transfer spells for low-level characters, while decreasing their power when used by high-level characters."

Again, what high level character with life magic is using Health to mana 1???

This is only hurting those of us who don't have 12 credits to have life magic. How many mages is this change actually benefitting vs all of those w/o life magic who depended on their healing skills and H2M to aid them in the already painful process of self buffing. Again let's not point out that critter spells are faster, what difference will that make when I can only cast 1-2 tops with the current H2M 1 spell?

And why aren't these transfer spells tied to Mana Conversion in the lst place???

Cuttler

03-10-2004, 09:46 PM

Well I don't PK myself but it is painfully obvisous that the changes implemented are over powering in an unbalanced sort of way. This worries me because, although I don't PK, I don't want to see my game cancled because of cancalation of so too many accounts.

Too many poor changes have been occuring as of late. It started with a very poor way of "fixing" the chains, when other solutions would have been more acceptable, and has continued to spin out of control from there.

The second stage of the Loot system is even worse than last months. Now the OP creatures are dropping level 7 scrolls next to level 1 (lead) peas. That is so totally unbalanced it isn't funny. Again, if my level 95 is casting level 7's (which most mages can do in there 60's) than I need to make enough cash to keep her stocked. That is more annoyenly difficult now than is tolorateable. With the lack of pack space to carry DI's, comps, and worthwhile salvage it is too difficult and time consuming to keep salvaging everythign just to make some cash. That is why the pea system was nice and handy. As for the real "loot" that we are intend to sift though looking for a keeper, well all I can say is workmanship stuff of 7 or higher just doens't impress me. It's a waste of good tinkering salvage. That that is pretty much what I'm seeing on the OP creatures I've been fighting.

I would like to thank you for listening to the masses on the settlement portals but please start listening to the other multiple negative comments you are receiving as well. The majority of us really do know this game better than the designers because we play it differently. And you are making the game for us (the payers) not yourselves.

2-legit

03-10-2004, 09:47 PM

Sabu I have nothing against white server in fact if more people from white servers would back us up in times of need such as this we would all make more friends but for the most part all I have heard is for dt to stop crying and this coming from people that never pk. This affects any pk/pkl on any server they're dumbing down pk/pkl to the point it can be done by a monkey I'm still waiting till they put in auto wars so I to can just click delete and win a fight...All I was trying to say when you want advise on how to hit a baseball you go to the professionals for some reason they take advise from people who don't know how to pk out of a paper bag. But what’s the use its obvious turbine doesn't give a dame if they did they wouldn’t have even put this patch in after they had the dt irc chat or roll back 2 weeks of dt or not listen for 4 years on what we have to say......And btw the only people that are happy by this patch are the skilless dum dums who could only get a kill in a 5 on 1 and still managed to die 9 out of 10 times. If turbine really cared about the game they would listen to us but for some reason they choose to completely ignore their whole player base.... I for one would want them to completely wipe out all of dt to level 1 if I didn’t know they would find some way to screw that up too.

And btw if half the people who threatend to cancell do Ill laugh my ass off when Jessica has to go in and tell the bank and backers why there was such a huge loss in revenue...........Once again get your heads out of your assess were you player base you loss us you lose your job and I for one say you get what you deserve.....

Signalerror

03-10-2004, 09:59 PM

BRAVO 2-legit. Awsome post.

THIS is the reason that white and red servers will never see eye to eye though.

Something bad effects that white servers = It hurts red servers
So both sides want to get it fixed

Somthing bad effects red servers = White servers dont care

See the problem?

EDIT :

Cuttler said :

"I would like to thank you for listening to the masses on the settlement portals but please start listening to the other multiple negative comments you are receiving as well. The majority of us really do know this game better than the designers because we play it differently. And you are making the game for us (the payers) not yourselves."

Sorry devs but this is a good point. I dont see you guys out lvling or pking. Its about time you start letting some real players do your "Testing" Because these loot changes are not funny. When you kill a crystal golem you expect to see something half decent, not a al 90 leather gaunt and a lvl 4? scroll!

Im angered, but Im really more disapointed. After all these years of watching and listening and caring for a game you still are not in tune with your player base. :(

MimsterofMT

03-10-2004, 10:09 PM

A few things i noticed this patch...

I suspect these are bugs:

-i used a sing key on a locked chest and it was empty!!!!

-raider juggernaut hit way to hard with pierce all of a sudden. I
was getting hit for 50+ non crits throught my al: 355 imp 6 covenant armour all of a sudden this patch with pierce only. I had blud vulner 6 on me so perhaps the bug is that it was actually pierce vulner on me and the spell text was wrong.

I am hoping these will be fixed next patch:

-Platinum golems dropping very poor loot like copper peas and regular health kits

-picked up a 123% +10 wield 290 bow, I posted at acvault archers forum about this last month when I got a similar bow and srand said this should be fixed in March. I am assuming the fix didn;t make it.

-Rendeth shreths are only worth 42K exp way too low for there lvl and how hard they hit i think.

-destroyer greivers are dropping leads peas

knopp

03-10-2004, 10:23 PM

http://boards.gamers.com/messages/overview.asp?name=DATW

you think you can do better than the turbine devs? post here and lets see how far we can go.

Toxeus

03-10-2004, 10:51 PM

Is there any ETA on content that'll be exciting for characters that aren't over L100? Just wondering. *Claps*

While I don't PvP, and my small post will be drowned in the mass of the PvP crowd who are upset, I will say that I think the new quest looks cool, if you're over 100, and the loot seems to have improved. Those are good things.

However, how about rewarding the hard working, slow leveling crowd who like to enjoy the sights along the way, instead of adding yet more 100+ content?

R3bb

03-10-2004, 10:56 PM

The Breastplate luring is ridiculous. I one hit a buffed/baned dude with 325 hp. Absolutely stupid, stupid, stupid.

It's not fun to kill people without using any skill.

As for the mage changes: STUPID STUPID STUPID.

Thanks for removing skill from the game.

Oh, wait, it's "SKILL" to read an EFFING SPELLWORD now and dodge based on that? No, it's called having a 3rd grade education. Damnit Turbine, this patch is absolutely horrible for DT.

Signalerror

03-10-2004, 11:48 PM

Originally posted by Toxeus
*Claps*

While I don't PvP, and my small post will be drowned in the mass of the PvP crowd who are upset, I will say that I think the new quest looks cool, if you're over 100, and the loot seems to have improved. Those are good things.

However, how about rewarding the hard working, slow leveling crowd who like to enjoy the sights along the way, instead of adding yet more 100+ content?

AMEN! Turbine, devs, ibn, whomever, listen to us.

Stop it with the 80+, 100+ content restricts, stop messing with the loot, stop turning pvp on its head.

4 Months ago i was happy with ac and saw myself playing for years to come. Today, im just going to see if you will wise up and learn from your mistakes. 1 Patch, thats all im giving you. As much as i love AC and my friends, this is just too much. :(

-Kaxak-

03-11-2004, 12:09 AM

:mad: You gotta be kidding me , PVP will never be the same without s2h 1 , I just dueled a friend and lost the love for close combat because it takes SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO long to cast s2h 3 , after you get hit , it's not a matter of skill anymore , more like whoever gets that last cast in is gonna win

It's become rather apparent Ibn , that neither you or the dev's playing anyting but ( swords , UA , Axe ,Mace , and Archer ) I seriouslly doubt you have any idea what HardCord Mage Combat is all about , fighting at 2 clicks apart isn't my idea of fun , Fighting at 2 steps IN YOUR FACE is :) with out s2h 1 , I don't even wanna PK anymore , infact if it's not changed back soon I'll quit and take my cash elsewhere .......

Already I've closed all my mule accounts (15) this month and have had friends close thiers as well , total is about 37 accounts to date closed

I understand or so I'm told Turbine has no idea how many account have closed because MS still handles the billing , but I can tell you this if the bad ideas and Major changes don't stop you guys won't have a player base big enough to buy lunch .....

this patch lacks good Quest Items , Fun Quest items ..........

on a good note , the loot is getting better , thank you for the change there !!!

Remember the spell system wasn't broken ( so it didn't need a fix) ;)

Khaz-Modaan

03-11-2004, 12:28 AM

Asking before you change stuff that works will get you a lot farther, devs.

Succubus

03-11-2004, 12:36 AM

IBN
I posted this for frostfell on vn but I felt I needed to post it here also.
Why is it so hard to listen to your players? Ok I understand we don’t always see your plans down the road and you cant cater to one group over another however when you have so many screaming about some ideas that you have thought of why is it so hard to say sorry folks we thought it would work but it didn’t and we will revert it back and find new solutions in the future? I must say I haven’t seen one Turbine representative to date actually directly address the problems also skirting around the issues one way or another and nothing that happened last patch complaint wise did you actually change you pretended to listen had chats, posted said how your listening but as I predicted then and say now went ahead with your own agenda anyway listening to the community is just a total front. I am sure you read my negative post last month about turbine how they cant even be bothered to return phone calls or and communications that in itself shows there lack of disregard towards the player base.
I also seriously doubt turbine people actively pk and please stop making it a Dt only issue! I was so angered by turbines comments about housing barriers coming down on dt it should be on all servers! I mean dt my be pk only but overall there are more pks on white servers as a whole...
On to my original post.
I play Asherons call just to pk these days am just thinking how hard public agent, beest, qv etc are to kill as it was, they hit hard and fast nearly 3 to 1 mage war and fore huge damage, however I don't think this will affect frostfell a lot because debuffs in general are frowned upon. Second they would have to take the time to target and cast and I can tell you blood loather and melee debuffs will be added to my attack bar including drains.
Its nuts really how can we cast stam to health 4 regen mana stamina health attack heal etc when a melee pounds you for 160-300+? Mean while there using blue kits super healing skills, potions, running around like mad men then can tear off from the fight and leave the scene at any time etc.
and they have 400 health?
My current solution I am considering is to train melee and wear cov armor since i refuse to wear wards as it is and bane asherons underwear! I have a cov set that’s fully base 420 melee only.
But I am heavily considering ending my days of asherons call not only because of this issue even though to me it’s a major reason, but lack of content, 4 years of revamped critters and dungeons.
Lies upon lies from turbine who don't listen to a damn thing players say. there always catering to this group or that group case in point DT this Dt that turbine needs to consider there are a lot more pks overall on the white servers its not a dt only issue.
Turbine needs to stop trying to fix things that aren’t truly broken after all what is we the players really want? Updated graphics, new quests, new armors and clothes, and dev controlled critters... God 5 years now I have wanted some real female clothes not the god damn zoot suit! I mean come on guys lets get with the program let the supposed add on fix the issues not our precious monthly update. I swear our money pays for a stupid yaraq life stone? You’re telling me a dev can only effectively place 1 life stone in a town a month? That’s like just a matter of an item and location codes!
If you ask me we are being put out to dry and there doing the minimum required to keep some money coming in to pay for there new games then turbine will say I’m sorry folks do to lack of interest in ac1 we have to close the game but btw thanks for funding our new games with the money that was supposed to go for your add-ons Suckers..
And as for another of turbines comments today about sword users Sword may cost a little bit more then axe but as stated by turbine themselves many times Axe was supposed to cause more damage to make up for its slower speed. Historically albeit both would kill you in real life in a hit Axe on a whole does much more damage in a hit to armor and the human. Critters, limbs and trees then a sword could ever accomplish. So why is it axe has lower base damages it’s slower and does no damage like a sword user at all? In fact even with more base skill then a sword user melee to melee on exact duplicate characters 1 sword 1 axe sword hits axe user all the time while the sword user evades how is this possible?
Ok end rant!

And god turbine make some sexy skirt like clothes and gender specific stuff and real female items, hello do you all look at the screen shots of armors and clothes in other games...its fact people love to dress there characters and be able to change things like that.

krack

03-11-2004, 02:22 AM

I wonder if all the mages/archers on DT are going to get refunded all their DI's...and or other stuff!

Rollback to 6 am 3-10-04,and take the patch down PERMANENTLY.

Lmao...wtg,you've done it again!

Strick

03-11-2004, 02:27 AM

So far the only real thing that I can post about this patch is the Allegiance chat colors.

I like them

Allows me to easily tell teh difference between fellowship tells and allegiance chat.

Thanks!

joshwin19

03-11-2004, 03:16 AM

I think this patch isnt right, making melee's better an better, when it seems to me in these types of games, mages should be able to take anyone depending on mage skill, but no matter what skill mage has now, it takes sword guy a matter of 15 seconds to take 325+ hp from you, thats totaly unfair, because how are you supposed ot heal with no stam2heath self 1 since that was taken from us all, you guys keep this up an see how many people you lose on all servers, more so on darktide because its really only for player killing, an if your mage an like being mage then you either have to (A Stop pvp'ing (B turn your char to melee or (C Flat out quit playing, so we'll see what happens

MaddyFF

03-11-2004, 05:12 AM

Ibn,

sounds like the hookable portal is being used on cottages, villas, and mansions, is this a bug or by design?

http://forums2.warcry.com/read.phtml?f=9&id=181257

Heideggar

03-11-2004, 05:26 AM

I had about 30000 words worth of a reply all ready, but when I hitted "submit mah shiz", it said I wasn't registerd. I guess it timed out, AGAIN. So, instead of anice and neat reply with helpful ways to remedy your situations I leave you with this:

It takes a team effort to **** things up this bad. It's not just Ibn's fault.

Osrik

03-11-2004, 05:31 AM

I haven't had a chance to really try out the patch yet but do have a few comments based on what I have read.

First of all when a patch has changes that have a big PK impact like this one please can you start a seperate thread for PK related responsse. Any PvP change seems to generate a huge volume of posts which does tend to lead to everything else getting swamped. I am not saying PKs shouldn't be posting so much as it looked like at least some of them raised valid points, I would like it to seperated from the non-PK stuff.

While I can see that there may be a need for changing the way H2M works I think you picked a bad time to make the change. This makes the painful process of buffing for a non-life using melee even more painful. Wouldn't it have made a lot more sence to leave this change until the other changes you have said are in the pipeline to ease the buffing process.

It looks like all the new content in this patch is aimed at high level characters. If you want to try and move people away from the level fast at any cost (chains, UCM, etc) culture it seems a VERY bad idea send a message that you have to be high level to be able to participate in the monthly events. I am not saying that some of the new content should not be targetted at high levels, I just feel that lower levels should get their share as well.

MissMae

03-11-2004, 06:08 AM

It's Awesome!

I wonder if most people understand how lucky we are that we have a game that is constantly changing.. It's really something wonderful.

Some stuff is good for you and some may not be.. but it is always changing.. That's the best part.

Thanks Guys.

Yinchi

03-11-2004, 06:25 AM

"It looks like all the new content in this patch is aimed at high level characters. If you want to try and move people away from the level fast at any cost (chains, UCM, etc) culture it seems a VERY bad idea send a message that you have to be high level to be able to participate in the monthly events. I am not saying that some of the new content should not be targetted at high levels, I just feel that lower levels should get their share as well."

This is exactly what I have said for some time. It seems everything is now directed at high levels. They are even updating old quests to make them harder. We are trying to lure new people to the game, don't make everything beyond their grasp. This only promotes power leveling of some type and encourages macroing.

I was disappointed to see that Portal Space is now level 70+. I did that quest successfully several times as a level 55. It was the only quest in the game that required expert timing and group coordination to achieve it.

Khaz-Modaan

03-11-2004, 06:47 AM

http://vnboards.ign.com/Frostfell/b5153/65662429/?1

^^ sums up the way we feel very nicely :)

Hellbound

03-11-2004, 07:39 AM

LOL!

The drama on these boards are better than any soap-opera out there ;-)

Picasso2177

03-11-2004, 07:43 AM

When oh when will we see some NEW mid-level quests?

All the 120+ characters get a new quest almost every patch, yet us mid-level get to......level more. :rolleyes:

Mustafah

03-11-2004, 08:33 AM

Actually... the new quest does have mid level. 70-99 is not mid level? It is.

And there is even an area for 69 and under.

Signalerror

03-11-2004, 08:43 AM

Originally posted by Mustafah
Actually... the new quest does have mid level. 70-99 is not mid level? It is.

And there is even an area for 69 and under.

Yea, but it has a Class A bug stuck to its arse.

People will get drained at the end and even after leaving the dungeon AND dieing AND logging off they keep getting drained.

Well, somone needs to call quality control and see who fell asleep while testing the patch.

Liaya

03-11-2004, 09:09 AM

Did something get changed with Magic Defense? I have 300+ buffed Magic Def & am not resisting level 4 spells from Dual Fragments.... ?

I know a lot of folks are of the opinion that Magic Def is useless in PvM anyway, but I've noticed that getting Magic Def up there has had some benefits.... until now. Maybe I was just unlucky, but...

[edit] Oh, and no... I was not debuffed in any way.

Zifadel

03-11-2004, 09:19 AM

A few polls that I have going over on VN-DT that you should take a look at...

http://vnboards.ign.com/Darktide/b5152/65634995/?22 <--S2h Changes

http://vnboards.ign.com/Darktide/b5152/65634494/?19 <-- Arc Spell Words

I would make one for the Armor Debuff's but there is enough of an outcry against those already. (and has been since you announced them going into the game).

Zifadel
ACVault Staff
www.acvault.com

Toxeus

03-11-2004, 09:49 AM

Sabu I have nothing against white server in fact if more people from white servers would back us up in times of need such as this we would all make more friends but for the most part all I have heard is for dt to stop crying and this coming from people that never pk 2-legit:

I'm honestly sorry that you feel that the game has been ruined by the changes to PK. Though I have no clue, since I have no interest in PK, I can still read the posts and figure out the ramifications of the changes. However, you want me to be NICE to you?? How about the years of o.O and Carebear and insults?? Give me a break!

I tell you what, how about allowing others to play Darktide and not camping the newbie drop areas? How about not coming onto my server and trying to crash landblocks? How about acting a bit mature and not insulting everyone you come across?

You know what? Nevermind, I do support your battle to get the PK changes removed, not because I want you to do anything from the list above, but simply because I'm not a DT player and therefore can do things simply because they're the right thing to do! I don't need some extra motivation to be nice to people, unlike a significant portion of your server. A bunch of people feel that the game is not as much fun as it used to be, and though it doesn't affect me directly, I believe that your voice should be heard.

williamohms

03-11-2004, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by Toxeus
2-legit:

I'm honestly sorry that you feel that the game has been ruined by the changes to PK. Though I have no clue, since I have no interest in PK, I can still read the posts and figure out the ramifications of the changes. However, you want me to be NICE to you?? How about the years of o.O and Carebear and insults?? Give me a break!

I tell you what, how about allowing others to play Darktide and not camping the newbie drop areas? How about not coming onto my server and trying to crash landblocks? How about acting a bit mature and not insulting everyone you come across?

You know what? Nevermind, I do support your battle to get the PK changes removed, not because I want you to do anything from the list above, but simply because I'm not a DT player and therefore can do things simply because they're the right thing to do! I don't need some extra motivation to be nice to people, unlike a significant portion of your server. A bunch of people feel that the game is not as much fun as it used to be, and though it doesn't affect me directly, I believe that your voice should be heard.

Not everyone on DT does all these things however you are here making the assumption that we do.

I have played DT all my time on AC. I have never came out to the forums and called anyone an "O.o" or told anyone to gbtff.

Instead I have always tried to be helpful if I could and always not posted if I didn't feel I needed to voice my opinion.

I Have openly welcomed people from other worlds into my Guild on DT and given them a helping hand and defended them to the detriment of my own being because I felt that was they way to play.

I Have NEVER logged onto another server to intentionally crash that server. I have never insulted anyone on the forums. Besides telling you guys to stop slamming everyone on DT for what 1 or 20 people from that server are like.

I have never camped new player areas. I have constantly supported all the complaints about bugged quests which I rarely do.

But because some people do it you blame all of DT and then come off sounding half cocked because someone wasn't nice to you.

Give me a break and try to rationalize before you post.

ShaRhee

03-11-2004, 10:56 AM

I would like to see hot PvP issues in separate threads. I don't appreciate having to read through all the PK complaints when their comments have nothing to do with the way I play. PK is just not my thing.

I like the loot changes, they seem to be improved from last month, and I look forward to the full revamp being completed in the near future.

Although I saw nothing about this anywhere else, it seems as though my plat burn is much less now. I used to burn about 1 plat for every 100 tapers, and it seems to be around 1 for every 150-200 (after about 4 hours of playtime). I hope that's not just my imagination, but we will see.

I appreciate the new high-level content, as most of my characters are getting up there in level, and I was beginning to wonder if I just needed to retire them as there was no challenge left for them.

I like the idea of hookable portals, and the new quest weapons look cool.

It seems to me that there are some really big plans in the works, and these last 2 patches, and the upcoming 2-3 might just be in preparation for some really exciting new content...a cleaning up of odds and ends before we proceed to bigger and better things. I can't wait to see what Turbine has in store for us.

Williamohms: I have yet to log in to DT and find anyone nice. I checked in a couple of days before the patch, to see what "gift" I got, and some jerk killed me as I was logging out. Gee, it takes a lot of skill to kill a level 23 dagger toon, huh? I'd bet he really enjoyed the junky loot I dropped.

Elare

03-11-2004, 11:01 AM

Aye, stereotypes are bad, mmk?

Also, I saw this in an earlier lengthy post...

"I mean dt my be pk only but overall there are more pks on white servers as a whole..."

^^^ Errr not really? Darktide HAD 700-1000 people on it. Thats the highest population on any server. Out of the other 7 servers, I doubt there are even 20 pk's on at any time.

*edit*
Now Im sure with these changes that white server pks do outnumber Darktide....

Addiction

03-11-2004, 11:04 AM

HAD.

Kai Arwensun

03-11-2004, 11:14 AM

From the point of view of an non-PvP on Wintersebb with my highest level toon 82 after two plus years- never macroed -never chained...the majority of complaints seem to be from the DT and or PvP level 100 plus community. Is that who the majority of AC players are? Turbine is going to try and please the majority and I am sure they are aware that you can't please all the people all the time, so it is the majority who will get what they want. If you look at the complaints you would get the impression that the majority of players- regardless of what world they play on-are unhappy. But if you look closer you see that many of those who are complaining are either PvP, very high level (over 100) or both. I ask again...are the majority of AC players PvP, on DT and over level 100?
It seems to be that all, many or most (depending on your point of view) of the recent changes have affected members of those particular communities but have had little or perhaps even no affect on the rest of us. But if the squeeky wheel gets the grease all the next changes will be in an attempt to placate high level PvP players on Darktide...is that fair for the rest of us?
I read their complaints, and for all I know they are legitimate, but they seem to be playing a complete different game than the one I am playing. And I don't mean just style of playing, everything about PvP seems to be foreign. Maybe it is time to take Darktide and PvP and make it a separate game. From my point of view what they want and what NON-PvP players want are diametrically opposed and makes it near impossible to keep both factions content.

Toxeus

03-11-2004, 11:15 AM

Give me a break and try to rationalize before you post. Yes, I made a generalization, and yes I realize that not everybody acts this way. In fact, I knew several players who left my server for DT and stayed in touch with them. However, after four years of continued nonsense, I no longer have the patience for it.

If you're not one of the offending parties, then good for you. If you don't like what your peers do, and the reputation they create, then take a stand and quit letting the immaturity define your server. From what you posted, it sounds like you do actually make an attempt at this, however, it is simply not enough to change any of my views.

smaweet

03-11-2004, 11:22 AM

and that would be unfair to any non-aluvians if they added something to make assess person more helpful

Cpl_Punishment

03-11-2004, 11:25 AM

My biggest question: war costs 28 credits to spec, sword costs 16, why shouldn't war mages have the advantage in PvP? Not to mention EVERYONE has Magic D trained and not everyone has Melee D trained (yet another advantage to sword).

Someone tell me why I should waste 12 credits when war spells take longer to cast than a sword swing and hit for less than a sword?

PurEvil

03-11-2004, 11:42 AM

Well, I haven't had much time in game to explore what's changed, but I figured I would post a reply one what I've seen/read so far.

First off, I don't PK, or PKL, so I'm not commenting on that flood of flames/whines/complaints.

I'm glad you changed the allegiance chat. It'll be easier to figure out who's talking now :)

I'm looking forward to seeing some uber loot, in case the servers ever get back up... I was one of the many who didn't get **** last month, and am broke because of an up and coming mage character I'm working on.

The only real problem I have with this month, is there's nothing for me to do. I've played this game for 4 years, but can't put in 15 or so hours a day to lvl my characters (which is why my highest is an old school tank archer at lvl 78) like some other people can. This month, you're sending out the signal that you only cater to the 100+ croud. It says to me, that until I reach lvl 100, my $12.95 a month doesn't mean as much as someone who macro'd or chained their way up before you hindered them.

I guess I'll just have to keep with the monotanous leveling till I see some more stuff with the next few patches. Hopefully you guys will listen to the replies against taking the settlement portals out.

Madgic

03-11-2004, 11:47 AM

Hiya all.

Turbine probably wont read this but in used to being ignored LOL.

All i want to say is well done. Credit where credit is due after the last patches "mistakes" this patch has come back and smacked me in the face with what im expecting from turbine.

The new Quests are awsome! at last a quest worth doing, mansion portals much sooner than expected, Quest armour that is definatly worth getting, new quest weapons that arent just wall ornaments and well what can i say? Thankyou Turbine, I may not be speaking for everyone but patches like this is why im an addict.

Now I will be getting my new accounts as soon as the codes are available. See it works you got yourself another 2 Subscriptions on the strength of 1 patch.

Loyal follower and fan of me

myself

Madgic

03-11-2004, 12:12 PM

Hiya me again.

Ive read alot of the posts about PVP and although im not sure turbine have gone the right way about all this, I will say seeing a melee of any discription 1 shotting a mage is cool! at last you guys can run and hide and hay if you cant kill a melee while he casts a minimum of 3 spells on you you were never worthy of really commenting on PvP anyway dam what have you been doing wrong.

My mage is 117 and even with these changes has still never been killed by a melee no matter what weapon or spell they managed to land.

Bowwitch

03-11-2004, 12:16 PM

Since I don't do any PvP, I loved this patch. The new quest is a blast!

I am going to break my own rule here though, and make a negative/personal attack/comment:

I am tired of the people that make vicious, rude, whining attacks on the developers. Most of these people swear up and down they are going to quit. Since most of them have attitudes that make me sure I wouldn't want to play with them, I hope they do!

ShaRhee

03-11-2004, 12:33 PM

I'll second that, Bowwitch! If you don't like the direction AC is going, quit and find another game out there that's better...I dare ya! I've seen dozens, if not hundreds, of people returning to AC (especially lately) who say there is just no other game quite like AC out there...I tend to agree, although my gaming experience is rather limited.

I generally don't whine or complain because I have always seen Turbine come through for us, and this game has gotten better and better since I started less than 2 years ago. I did have to strongly object to their first idea of removing settlement portals and replacing them with gems sold at the drop point (seemed rather pointless to me), and thank goodness we were given the opportunity to comment before they made, what I consider, one of the most horrid changes they could make in this game, as not everyone has enough ingame time to spend so much of it running from one end of the map to the other.

As far as PvP issues are concerned, I really wish they were in another thread as I don't care to hear rantings that just don't concern everyone (mainly, me, hehe!).

williamohms

03-11-2004, 12:38 PM

However the issue is Turbine gave PVP to Darktide and AC.

Its part of the game whether you utilize that play style or not its there and Turbine is required to appease the masses of DT players.

Golden Falcon

03-11-2004, 12:42 PM

Ok, after 2 years building a mage at 135 level, his now what? Either a buff bot, or a mule...

Im not big into PK, but enjoyed doing with clan. Now, you have totally ellimnated that fun. Did some testing with friends. Over 2 hour period and every battle lost. Seven single shots. 16 total deaths. The only time I lasted for more then 1 minute, was when I employed 450 run to run away like a wimp.. Ya, this is balance, right?

Oh, and what was I up against. One on one with different test. 105 sword, 115 bow, 82 sword, and 64 ua... So I can't last more then 1 to 2 minutes against a toon less then half my level. Oh, RIGHT, this is balance...

After reading all the post here, it only really supports my test. Now Im not the best PK in the world, but at least I could enjoy it.

Now, NON PK. Not only did you cripple mages in PK, but Critters can debuff mage armor also. How is that balancing MELEE and MAGE? Now youve even cripple my ability to hunt, or support other characters.

So what exactly is for a mage? Oh, and the change of self buff times so no one uses a bot.. Eliminating the one of two possible carear paths of my mage that took to years to build. So I've spent two years building a mule.... Thanks allot.

Lets see, the mage is the hardest char to play. Take a incredable amount of time to build one that could possiably survive on their own. Takes an incrediable amount of funds to keep running. (Which your loot patch successfully destroyed majority of income for) A large amount of funds to get all the spells for, is the toon with the lowest hit ratio. (IE, Bows and other melee's hit critters for 1000 2000 +, max Ive ever hit for is 600 to 700, and that is crit. Average of 180 to 300. All that to have char you have totally crippled.

If you want balance PK, which don't think was really needed as I get taking out by Swordsman all the time before. (Bowman could use some help). Then PLEASE DON"T DESTROY the non pk. Your destroying every aspect of this game that is enjoyable!

Oh, another NERF you did which I did not see posted. I used to hit for 180 to 250 with blast on things in front of my mage with a render wand. Now I hit for max of 50. Some people may say its not fair for a mage to be able to hit 3 criters for that kind of damage. Well, exactly what advantage is there to a mage then. He has no melee defence, so if taking on a swarm he better be able to do some damage.

You say your in middle of changes. So far the last 3 changes have done nothing but cripple mages. And I don't see any plans in the horizon that does anything FOR them.

In truth, the reasons I have not un-subscribed is my whole family plays, and I have made a number of good friends in game. But your quickly making it to the point its no longer fun to play. Have lost many many friends in the past two patches. And suspect after this last one, will see even more go away.

Aesterian

03-11-2004, 01:05 PM

Crafting Dialog is a very nice addition. For me it is preferable to a tinkering calculator - well done!

UI reorganization of Character Options makes good sense.

I've done some hunting of South Dires and a couple runs through Tusker dungeons. The loot has been okay in both places (and it is nice to see some varied stuff coming off the apes) and by being selective of what I pick up the cash generated seems to be roughly the same.

There may be a little less of the salvage stuff I'm interested in, of workmanship high enough to bother with, but I honestly wasn't doing much salvage yesterday, so that's pretty subjective.

I don't have any issue with the high level critters having random things on them (lead peas, low grade heal kits, odd level scrolls, etc.). They are just critters out in the world - there's no accounting for what random things they'll have picked up themselves.

The new portions of spreading information (Under Development and Concept) are good ideas and will hopefully satisfy some of the issues people have had regarding what changes in the world.

Some General Comments

I've played the game for about three years now - and I really like the game! I like that things change from month-to-month; content and system features. It is a dynamic world - so much more interesting to me than a static 'console' game world on disc.

I like that Dev's and Managers are responsive to posts in forums, and providing information via web sites.

I've never macro'd - but I consistently use Decal for Sixth Sense and Nurfus Buffus. If there were ingame equivalents for what those two plug-ins do, I'd happily drop the use of Decal.

I play only NPK; three melee, one archer, one archer/mule. I tried one character on DT for a couple hours (back around three years ago when WE was dropping out a whole lot more often) - and found no fun in getting slaughtered at the LS as a 1st level character. [My experience with DT probably would have been different if I'd been early in the game, created a character there, and been part of a good group of folks.]

I did a brief battle PKL with a monarchy pal when it first became available - and I understand the appeal of it for folks; and I appreciate that as a form of play it is available. But it just wasn't what I consider 'fun' as a style of play. I very much enjoy PvM.

Housing was a great addition to the game. While I have the standard want for more hooks and storage (I have a cottage) - with some judicious and selective management of the things I keep, the single chest and my one mule work out OK.

The monthly work that goes into trying to meet the desires for content creation, PvP folks, NPK folks, bug fixes, community services (live chats, forums, and documentation), HotFixes, equipment maintenance, is probably more than many folks fully comprehend.

Out of the long list of 'desires' for these various things, there must be a fairly convoluted list of the things that *need* to be done. And while things may go astray from any one month to the next, one of the joys of this game is that you guys do take feedback under consideration and revisit issues - and that in following updates to the game anything that has gone astray can be brought back in line.

Thank you for a diverse and changing world in which to play!

Care Police

03-11-2004, 01:22 PM

Thanks for ruining PvP Turbine. -_-

2-legit

03-11-2004, 02:10 PM

For the people that don’t like pvp let me try to put it into a way you can better understand it......

Lets say you go out and hunt like you’ve down for years now but all of a sudden the stuff you hunt has a ring spell that kills you in two hits. And sense it’s so powerful every monster on dereth now has it. Even the chickens and rabbits you cant go anywhere without seeing this insta vp only way to get away is run every time you see a orange dot. But that doesn’t defeat you your bound to kill again so you go out in groups but now every time you want to do something you must be in groups to do it no solo at all our your toast. You cant pvm at all anymore nor quest because you now will end up in the life stone the second you do. Now this would effect everyone pk or non but sense the changes are only pk this time you find it ok to show no support but just remember when the time comes and they put in something horrible stupid which they’ve show can happened at anytime now expect to get what you give............

Lady_Galadril

03-11-2004, 02:40 PM

I think this is a great patch! I LOVE the start up screen. It's so springy! Thank you for listening to our concerns and for the speedy implimentation. I feel this event is a sign of great things to come and of a committed dev/gamer relationship.

Chueh

03-11-2004, 03:08 PM

Periapt of Endless Sight cast Finesse on you, surpassing Major Coordination

wasnt this supposed to be fixed this patch?

ArtilexOfDarkti

03-11-2004, 04:25 PM

Content Good... pvp changes... bad... that is all there is too it. For those of you who havn't been murdered by any melees yet you're lucky or run away from most of them. Every mage I have seen... most have twice the xp I have were hopelessly murdered... I hit them as hard as they hit me except I attack twice as fast... thats a little un fair... and I'm just axe... I can't even imagine sword.

-Artilex

Toxeus

03-11-2004, 05:11 PM

Hey 2-Legit,

Glad you read my post, you didn't even get my name right, "pardner!"

If you actually read what I said, you'll notice that I support your argument for saving PvP even though I have absolutely NO reason to offer anything positive in your defense. All your post did was reinforce my attitudes. Nice job making my argument!

This is the fundamental difference between us. I do things because they benefit everybody who plays, you do things because they benefit you. I suggest you look in the mirror before talking about maturity.

To IBN and Orion: Once again, nice patch for the non PvP's out there, and thanks for the loot improvement.

Modzyan

03-11-2004, 05:27 PM

Ibn, could you please tell us if and when they plan on fixing the bugged periapt? I thought they would do a hotfix after the February patch, but they didn't, I thought they would fix it for the March patch, but they didn't, so when they said they were doing a hotfix on Thursday, I thought surely, this is when they'll fix it, but they haven't. I don't have major xbow apt, or major coord apt, and @ 20 mill a point to raise xbow, the periapt is a greatly welcomed quest item............if it would work!

2-legit

03-11-2004, 06:05 PM

lol you have no argument to be made you logged in died logged out and made a grudge nothing I can do for you.............And no I don’t do things to benefit me lol I play a melee and I think it was too easy before this patch. I try to help out my server if that’s what you mean and all pk's in general. WTF do you want me to do to help you out I didn’t know turbine did something to hurt pvm I’m sorry if your fashion show ran amuck after the new neon dye came out; however, the only difference between us two is that you our out of touch with reality your trying to make some point that I frankly don’t give a **** about. For some reason you think you make a difference in this game that turbine come here to listen to toxeus because he’s the messiah of ac. News flash you don’t benefit anyone pk or non alike. I know turbine will do what they want I post to give a pk's side to the story you post to feel importance. Once again lets try to stick to the point that a quarter too half of dt as cancelled and not because someone called you a name.

PS Mr-Sinister blasts your lower arm for 266 points of electrical damage!

lol thats just with a vuln and lure no imp or anthing hes sword tell me who this is fair at all. I was fully banned and in 600+ armor

Scenario

03-11-2004, 08:00 PM

Modzyan-

By the time we propped the February Event, we were already content frozen for the March event. The Peripat of Endless Sight will be functioning correctly in the April Event (by functioning correctly I mean the spells cast by it will override minor cantrips and be overridden by moderate and major cantrips).

DracheDesAngst

03-11-2004, 08:02 PM

Now a weeping only takes 1 hit to kill a mage.. Good design turbine. What's next.. our characters will be unable to cast our ever so slow war spell and miss yet again? Oh.. wait, they 've almost got that right. If you think we are irritated you all too correct.

We're getting hit for over 300 points. You shouldn't have implemented this without giving us a remedy, i.e., new armor, better resist or a damn war that can hit something rather than where the melee was 10 minutes ago.

D.

2-legit

03-11-2004, 08:38 PM

ibn or scenario you would make great politicians avoiding the issues and answering little quest question give us a real answer. SO far you answer to these lures are level 7 item dispels but guess what you get killed in two swings 2 swings; it takes half a spell cast to get those two swings off, so you will die before you can even get the spell off. I believe you believe you have a plan for pk but reading your letter to us makes me believe you have no clue what pvp is..........please answer our concerns and maybe you wont have the flocks leaving....

lashmage

03-11-2004, 09:13 PM

I love the hookable portal. Realy glad to see the dev team realy working to make things we want in the game come true.

Not over all the best patch I've ever seen, but I know alot is happening in the turbin office.

Im crossing my fingers in hopes that more cool content like this comes in the future.

Fellow buffs also very kewl.

Jet-eye-nite

03-11-2004, 10:11 PM

so you finally reply about "junk" quest items from Zharl quest . I was in there the day of the patch with 4 other 100+ to get that junk.And it does state min weild lvl 30 and you need to be lvl 40 to enter.Point being there is no way a lvl 40 would survive that dungeon let alone wear that junk if it doesn't do as it states now.To say it overrides a minor but not mod,maj makes it total **** (when you constantly change your word it makes it very hard to have trust in you)Especially when it take higher lvls just to make it through. Now I remember why I don't do your quest ,because they have Lame loot .I myself wonder when was the last time any dev really signed on to a real world and played same as customers do (not as a 126 with 400 stats either)and not some test area where you set the environment and try something for 10 min and say it works were good to go .

Illusi

03-11-2004, 11:14 PM

BUG:

Seems that the old bug where items you are trying to identify won't display in the examine window is back.....

Anyone else noticing this????

Also seeing a bit more lag and packet loss than normal....wonder if it is the gear detection code....

Also seems that the client is not 'drawing' as fast as it was - I am seeing about an average of 5fps less now then a month ago....

(and no nothing has been changed on my PC)...

me swat

03-11-2004, 11:16 PM

i have notice an extremely large hit on FPS when self buffing.

R3bb

03-11-2004, 11:32 PM

Asheron`s Call Dark Majesty Unsubscribe
Cancellation successful.

Your subscription for Asheron`s Call Dark Majesty will expire as follows:

Monthly Renewal
Date Started: Feb 28 2004 8:08PM
Date Expired: Mar 28 2004 8:08PM

Maybe I'll resubscribe when the devs get some common sense.

Bruiserk

03-12-2004, 12:19 AM

Thank God I don't play on DT.

Still would like the value on items to go back up. I can't carry around pieces of armor to support myself with.

Still wish I was able to level my trade mule.

This patch for me? Worthless. Hasn't improved my playing one bit. My enjoyment level is still down, and I don't see any improvements for it in the future. Still seems that MS actually had the correct vision for this game.

_AbBaNdOn

03-12-2004, 12:35 AM

I am a salvage hunter when i play AC. I dont care for the social aspect or the power leveling. I just liked to make money and become stronger doing it.

the loot class for 2-5 SUCK. I would find a lv7 scroll on one monster and open up his buddies corpse to find **** and a lesser mana stone?? The classes need to have minimums put into place.

Weapons are 50/50. I would find lots but some were from a lower class bracket and the ones with high reqs had **** mods. Armor is still a total joke.

Where are the pea's?? Hollow olthoi dont drop any?? Atleast while i was waiting for some @#%^#$&^ to stop hunting the one spawn of hollows for sing keys i could pick up his trash and make money.

You guys needs to jerk the new loot system out and replace it with the old until you work out the bugs. You have butchered my whole reason for playing.

If I was your boss you guys would be fired. Your suppose to be making this a better game not worse.

Ma al-Smith

03-12-2004, 12:38 AM

Thusfar i think this patch is great!

However Now that more creatures are dropping lvl 7 spells What's to become of the SIK Chests and Keys

tigga/manshoon

03-12-2004, 01:53 AM

It's funny the only people who agree with the item debuff changes are melees who are weak..last month i could kill any mage on my melee no matter what level..this month i destroy them...The reasons you melees like the changes is because your weak..you don't know how to play the game...now over all you think killin people in 2 hits on a melee takes skill? plz your a joke.....mages fighting and knowing what spells are coming??? HOW THE HELL CAN ANYONE KILL ME? ITS IMPOSSIBLE IN 1ON1 MAGE VS MAGE HELL ITS EVEN A JOKE TO THINK IT CAN HAPPEN..this is worst update i've seen so far because of the STH spell words and armor debuffs over all those are things that i would have never seen coming and the things i hoped to never see...just lost 7 accounts turbine because thats how many i own and let this world use :)

Picasso2177

03-12-2004, 02:22 AM

The Good: Great Lttp. You explained yourselves and ideas very well. I love this type of communication please keep this up.

The Bad: From what I have read from 99% of the PKs feel you have killed DT and PvP. Not even being a PK I can see why they are upset. I'd be upset whether I played PK.

Also the loot system still bites the big one. Sorry you guys have failed miserably with this idea. It needs to get fixed quickly or figure out a way to put the old system back. I don't believe you when you say you can. If you had it in once you can put it in again.

Side Note: I keep reading a quote from IBN "this is not a democracy". By this I am very offended and you are wrong IBN. This is a democracy. Our subscriptions are our votes. We don't like something we take our vote back. We like something we let you keep it one more month. Please do not make such offensive and shortsighted comment. Yes, I know you and the others get much worse, but you’re getting paid for it. I get it at my job and take it, because I love the money I make. But, it is not your job or mine to talk **** back to the customers.

A question: Whom can we write to that is higher up then IBN and the others? I'd like to write to your bosses. Obviously if you are passing on our concerns they are not getting the idea. Maybe of we had a direct line to them we could get our points across better then you.

StarchaserX

03-12-2004, 03:10 AM

I got *stuck* in the decrepid tower quest on a stupid stepped rock (looks like an altar type thing) by another large rock.

Tried to jump and spin, login, logout to get unstuck.

Messages urgent assistance 3 times in 45 min because I was being attacked by zharlims in the hall and the other side of this rock and altar set-up.

I survived long enough to see the rest of my fellow on the other side of this rock, and listened to them get their tassles for the rewards.

I had to lifestone recall to get unstuck, then paid a full sing ring each for the cowl and the peri necklace.

And now I hear that the necklace is **** because is does not stack with major bow/x-bow/tw or with major coord.

How *Lame*.

Does the cowl not stack with majors either?

Bruiserk

03-12-2004, 03:19 AM

Aaah, the inherent problem with soliciting our opinions.

You receive overwhelming responses that are negative to a change, but make the change anyway, which leaves your customers feeling as if you don't listen.

You give the customers a chance to vote on superflous changes(housing portals), but control fundamental changes in game mechanics with an iron grip that would make Vladimir Putin proud.

That is not good customer relations, comrades.

Shaolin

03-12-2004, 08:25 AM

First of all, Fantastic job on the blackmire quest!

nice to see varied sections much like garlean (only better).
and that is allows most lvls to participate, if all lvls can partake then it will reduce 'whines' in the future if quests are done in the same fashion.

the rewards are finally what some people have been looking for..
quests items that are usefull in everyday situations,
the art work is very nice on all aspects, items/decor/mobs etc,

the missing ulgrim situation has urged myself and ,any others to attempt to seek him out, read old lore/go to places not visited in a while, this mystery apsect helps excercise our brains trying to figure things out for ourselves, even if he is time released.

the added caul boss mobs we all knew were out there, but just could not find ;)

and still something not yet solved about the new caul to keep quest hunters hanging around there......waiting........

btw a spelling error i noticed on the Plaguefang's spell ---------
'Target's total health is reduces < should be reduced.

the bright orange text is great, although i assumed this would have been ingame 1st attempt as bright orange is what i was expecting.

new invoker quest, well i cannot really comment as i have yet to do it, but listening to some low lvl people gripe about it bieng now only 70+ ? even though in my opinion the invoker should be
for the mid upper portion of the playerbase.....so far so good.

pkl, again not tried it this patch, but despite the usual reactionary
posts, after talking to someone who does pkl regularly, it's a big thumbs up, and he is a mage!.

ok so still a few things to try out, but so far i like it, that is to say, i like it except for the loot profiles not being finished =/

justindz

03-12-2004, 10:00 AM

At first, I was skeptical of the loot changes and saw my supply of platinums dwindling. I longed for the days of level 100, where it appeared that money was still plentiful. I am level 74 right now, as a spec war/life mage.

However, I quickly found that I could hunt the OP with a thrilling but not suicidal level of danger and still net a good deal of income and keepable items. I still have never found a major, but I've only been playing for 3 months. I seem to cover comp cost, net an average of 2-3 plats, or 1 plat and a full refill on mana stones. Long and short of it is my gemstone salvaging has suffered severely, but I'm keeping up on precious and base metals.

So I definitely jumped the gun on last month. This month appears to be an improvement because I LOVE finding level VII scrolls on things that can kill me with chain casted level VII scrolls finally. The only thing left for me to check is chest value. If chests are viable again, my profit ought to increase.

Too early to say much about April, but I don't play PVP. I agree that it should be a separate thread so that non-PVP players can find information in a timely and useful manner. Not that I discourage the feedback, but I discourage lumping essentially separate topics together to the frustration of all involved parties.

StarchaserX

03-12-2004, 12:45 PM

I find that no, the cowl does not stack with majors.

Why was this not put in the ****ing description, *******?

It plainly says *LAYERABLE*

as in other spells can be layered over it.

Now, what the **** do you think a player is going to think when he reads the description?

That they will *STACK* with majors. Cool.

It would have been much simpler to write in the description:
*Does not stack with majors*

Lots of people bought/sold these items. Without knowing this because the necklace was bugged.

Players do not think like devs.
Obviously dev do not think like players either.

Since I got stuck on bugged spot, I had to buy them.
I could have saved 48 sings and 2 rings had you people been just a little more thoughtful...It takes a while to hunt that much salvage to sell on my bot. Maybe I should just macro sings instead. I play late and got lucky to hook up with a group, usually I either have to solo a quest, or buy the reward.

Introducing this new fellow thing reduces my soloability even if you say it doesn't. (********)

Gee Scenario, I thought we got a little tinkering and missle love except for the omission on the item desciption of it not stacking with majors. Thanks again, *******.

Please, ban me from the forums here. Permanently.
It's a futile exercise to hope you guys would get a clue.

And PK? Glad I got a Maj Str Cov shield from a bot cheap the month before. But even a noob like me could kill any mage.....it takes no skill when you stack the odds like that.
Dipshit.

2-legit

03-12-2004, 03:04 PM

lol nice to see you come and step up for once and give us an answer to a real issue just try to side step it some more ibn. How many handicaps you going to give weeping weapons, gems, aegis shields, wards, sticky melee, Stam kill on jump, awakeners, and now lures.......if the melee cant kill the mage last patch can it be they just suck no that never comes to mind until you can just press delet and watch the mage die will you guys think its balanced.

Also

sword 16 to spec
ua 6 to spec
bow 16 to spec
Staff/Dagger 4 to spec
war magic 28 to spec

do you even see a problem here........each of those skill can out hit the war magic now.

Give an answer already your stupid item dispells will do nothing if im dieing within two swings. Just a simple response would suffice and by that I mean an answer not one of your profound will look into it.......

nofeir

03-12-2004, 03:15 PM

I've been hunting my level 97 xbow girl in the dires. It is nice to find level VII scrolls on more critters, and some of them have slightly better loot, but it's nowhere near what it was before the FebruaryWorstPatchEver. The loot situation still sucks. I know "it's a work in progress", and you tell us it will get better, but that doesn't make it any easier to take.

Chests:

I checked the SIK chests and the quality of scrolls there seems to be better. Used about 36 keys and got many useful scrolls and not near as many "trash" scrolls.

I've also tried a 400 difficulty runed chest a couple of times and that loot was either trash or salvage. Nothing useful at all, and very little of it was even worth enough to haul back to town to sell. Pretty poor for a chest that's hard to get to and fairly difficult to open.

The sing chest I opened was junk. VERY disappointing! You say that sing chests are now 80+ loot, but that there is little difference between 80+ and 100+. It didn't seem good enough to even be called 80+ IMO.

Zero_Washu

03-12-2004, 04:09 PM

Did I mention before that the loot sucks?

Well guess what, it still does even today.

Next time you guys decide to muck with such an important aspect of the game...... DON'T

Wait till you finish it, testing out half-baked incomplete code is disrespectful to your customers.

Essentially your saying we do not deserve a finished product, we should accept **** like this. See, ya'll tried that with AC2 and the gamers showed you exactly where you could put it.

Seems from current server pops since the Feb patch that the gamers are again sending a CLEAR message.

NakaTokei

03-12-2004, 04:57 PM

... the Feb. and March updates were by far the absolute worst you guys have been able to come up with. PK has been balanced for sometime since people have been able to max out skills, Melee PKs and archers did NOT need to be able to debuff armor, straight up even though most melees have low health, they still have an Aegis, and Shadow Armor with Major Wards, Most mages and archers dont have the strength to carry 2 suits of GSC to ward for all elements. Archers have the advantage of being able to fight long range, and dont have to break a sticky melee to heal, along with being able to shoot with minimum accuracy and still hit most mages who start with 10 coord and quick.

So for Melees and Archers you not only give them the ability to debuff a mages armor, but you take out one of the basic spells that we've been useing for over 4 years. And you call this "Balanceing" ? Maybe if you ACTUALLY listened to your players and used our suggestions you wouldnt screw this game up so much? There are very few PKs who complain about it not being balanced, our major concern is server lag. What we need is an easily accesable, large place to fight not a statue we have to go looking for and then have to pay an M note every time we die. Not a dungeon with a bunch of pretty colors all on the walls. Just a plain large area with simple textures to minimize lag, with either a portal thats tieable / recallable or near a commonly used LS such as AB or the Obsidian Rim LS.

Bottom line, in your continual efforts to "balance" the game, you have yet again screwed it up. How about you try logging into the worlds as an Admin/VIP/whatever and actually watching PK fights and talking to us about what we think.

If you ever want imput from the PKs/PKLs of Morningthaw, just give me a tell there as Naka Tokei and I'll get you arcehrs, melees, and mages all together to give yall some suggestions and imput.

-Naka

ArtilexOfDarkti

03-12-2004, 05:41 PM

I still would have a lot of sympathy for archers... mages are doomed for now... but Archers needed to be fixed... they could be evaded skill wise and just by tapping a few keys. Just because they have range doesn't mean they can actually kill anybody... if someone runs away they have just as big of a chance of killing someone on the run as a mage... except 1/4 the damage on most hits.

-Artilex

NakaTokei

03-12-2004, 06:03 PM

Oh, by all means, archers are screwed as well this patch when fighing a melee, thay have absolutly no chance. -- Oh and all of the people who dont PK and are complaining about the PKs voiceing our opinions, we pay just as much as you, we have the right to say what we feel, the NPK attitude that oh PKs are just the worst people, all they do is complain is very annoying, PK is what some of us like in this game, NPK is what you like its that simple as that. And we have a right to critisize the Devs and frankly be as rude as we want, we are the ones paying thier salarys, where does turbine get thier money from? The consumers who buy thier products, i.e. you and me. Now I dont believe players should have absolute control of what happens in the game, but we should have a voice. When there is so much outcry by the players, something should be done. If something isnt done about the PK changes this month players will quit. Some already have and this patch has only been out for 1 day. When a patch is so bad that players will quit, there is a serious problem and that problem needs to be addresed as soon as possible.

Care Police

03-12-2004, 06:13 PM

Sorry...brother used my forum acct.

Full_Eclipse

03-12-2004, 06:32 PM

Hear alot of complaining about the BP debuffing. What ya dont hear is the fact is a melee weapon being weeping or not can also be debuffed, so i think it kinda evens it out. My thoughts, if the weapons (weeping cause thats what every PK uses) were never able to be debuffed then they would have never of had to start with the armor debuffs. All it is is wasting time tradeing the spells back and forth to end up with the same ending. Weeping when not debuffed and armor not debuffed cant be to far off damage wise then debuffed Weeping and debuffed armor. But any how always ways around it like a cov or olthoi bp.
As of the patch as a whole i think we are slowly working backwards to the way things were long ago when is was more of a challenge. And also nice to no that its worth try to hit a higher lvl. Got a lvl 152 BM and was a shame that a lvl 80 could get all the same loot, items, ect. And as we all know theres alot of work to get from 100 to 152. And for the few of you 200+ you guys should get super ubah shiz!! Mabey items that require maxed out attributes or skills. But anyhow i like most the patch all accept the debuffs. Take out weeping debuffs and armor debuffs and all you have done is save wasted time.

knopp

03-12-2004, 07:43 PM

DEVS: since you are so intent on nerfing the overpoweredness of level 1 spells, lets look at the HUGE bomus Magic Yield 1 gives against my SPEC Magic Defense. Since spec magic D is the ONLY defense a mage PK has anymore.

We cant resist the debuffs, we cant break sticky melee, and you give teh most OVERPOWERED melee PK template a 27-54 +24 +27 2xstrike, 3xcrit sword!?!?!

WHAT WERE YOU THINKING!?!!

Fix MY1, it is too powerful against spec MD templates. And NERF THAT SWORD!

-Kaxak-

03-12-2004, 08:54 PM

LOL what event ?

I've played for 3 1/2 years now , these last 2 patches are the WORST I've seen so far !!!

The game I once knew as Asheron's Call , I know now as Asheron's Fall !!!

Zero_Washu

03-12-2004, 10:05 PM

Spent an hour in the Evis lair.

Loot sucks.

There was nothing LEVEL APPROPRIATE about it. As a matter of fact other than ichor nothing was worth enough pyreals to bother. Most gems are work 4 or 5. The MAXIMUM pyreals I found was 54 - FIFTY FOUR - on a deal eviscerator.

Ernie

03-12-2004, 10:23 PM

I played once since the patch. I tried to fight a melee. Was impossible to hit them unless I just shot streaks.

I wish everytime a melee started swinging at me I could just run behind a building or a tree and dodge it just like a melee can.

sandman

03-12-2004, 11:12 PM

I have to disagree Zero. I find a significant ammount of w6-7 loot along with enough loot to give me 2-3 D notes in profit after a run without accounting for any ichors. I'm only disappointed with the armor at this point. Once that gets fixed. evi's will be worthwhile hunting for level 50-60 toons.

Som|Blood

03-12-2004, 11:14 PM

I wish I they would implement the same "skill" based damage avoidance that melees enjoy vs mages.

Melee says, "ugh I'm going to swinga higha"

::::::pop up window brought to you by turbine::::::::_::[]::X::

Would you like to
A. JUMP
B. DUCK
C. uhm avoid a mid body attack

You have five seconds to answer correctly and avoid damage.

This brings in the skill of remembering that high means up and brings in the added incentive of being a better pk ingame if you can recall that ducking avoids high attacks within five seconds.

Taker_AC

03-13-2004, 03:26 AM

OK, so I get on for the first time this patch... I buff up my level 30 Sword toon, and I head to the Consolate to hunt some Ravs...

My loot profile in Bandit Sight looks for anything over 3K Pyreal and under 500 burden. Before your loot changes, I used to take toons in there, loot sellables, scarabs, and peas. I'd sell them off at Heb-2, refill comps, and buy a mana charge or two, and walk away with an M-note to my name.

This time, after one full buff run, I gained a level and a half, salvaged what I could, refilled 20 tapers, and bought a mana charge. I walked away with 30K pyreal!?! That is not even half of what I used to make in there...

Read.... my.... text.... More... sellable... loot!!!!

I'm hunting mobs that are over double my level, and I can't walk away with even close to a D-NOTE! What is up with that? To top it off, there was not a single thing on those Ravs that I would have considered uber for even a level 30!

Please....... I realize that you are making changes to the loot structure to spread out the uber loot, but I need low weight, sellable items in order to be able to afford my toons... When all I can do is loot a bag and a half of leather, less then 10 units of steel, and iron, and 30K profit, it makes me not want to play. I am having a hard enough time lately, finding time to play, with work. When I do find the time, I want to feel like it's worth it to logon.

Please, please, please, please.... Make sellable loot better, sooner! And please, if at all possible, make it before next patch. I know that's a long shot to ask for such a thing, but by next patch, I may find other things to do that don't involve AC, and I don't want to leave like this. I really don't.

Tas

03-13-2004, 10:16 AM

Ibn,

I don't expect numbers, but does Turbine have a way of measuring the number of people subscribed to Asheron's Call?
If not, how are you measuring the success of the game?

If so, have the recent changes caused a positive or negative change in the # of subscribers?

I'm mainly curious, because I believe as customers, we vote with our cash. But if the cashier is blind, our votes obviously are not getting thru this way.

We do appreciate you being here, not since Ken Karl stayed up all night answering questions when the Zone went FOOBARed for 3 days have we had such communication from Turbine. However, most of us would like to believe that we can make a difference, not just be the peasants waving torches outside the castle moat...

Sabu

03-13-2004, 11:43 AM

I wonder if there has been any change to the pk/pkl dungeons. They are pretty cool but no pks anywehre near them :(

MIdnightFire7

03-13-2004, 02:04 PM

well.. Cant comment on new quest. Not 100+ and will be a Looooong time before i ever am. So stuff i can comment on. Finding 7's much easyer is nice, but what are you gonna do about sik chests? They gonna drop better stuff?

No real big huge complaints. Last 2 patches were bad. This ones not exactly the best, but some where right about the last to, but not far.

knopp

03-13-2004, 02:18 PM

THEY NEED TO FIX THE BROKEN EFFECTS OF MAGIC YIELD 1. A LEVEL 1 SPELL SHOULD NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO GET AROUND THE 12 CREDITS IT TAKES TO SPECIALIZE MAGIC DEFENSE.

2-legit

03-13-2004, 10:03 PM

lol some mod please give an honest answer

Minamoto

03-13-2004, 10:37 PM

The 100+ Staff of Eyes.

My suggestion is to make the fellowship spell only work while the staff is equipped. So if you make the requirements and weild the staff, the spell is automaticly cast on your fellowship.

When you remove the staff, the spell should also disapear. It makes it so the staff itself is something a player would actually want to use while they hunt with a fellowship.

As it stands right now, there isn't any reason for you to use it as your casting device while in combat. Right now, you just cast the spell, uneqip the Staff, and switch to your regular CS, AR or Rending staff.

If you put Critical strike on it, or something like that, it would make it a far more usefull item.

Thanks for reading.

Inashadow

03-14-2004, 02:17 AM

Tas trust me they know exactly what is what subscription wise.

It is looked at on a daily basis.

They have the server population graphs that us players have...
They can make one phone call a day to ask for the sub numbers.

They know that the servers topped 7k total only twice this week.
Pre patch we hit 8k nightly.

They know they are going in the wrong direction account wise in the last 60 days yet continue to work on their 'vision'.

Yes I beat dead horses a lot.

UCMers I beat the heck out of that issue.
Money Macos I beat that one to a pulp.

This issue is my most important one to date because it reflects on my continued support of the game I love to play (4+ years).

They are going in the wrong direction...
I don't PK but it seems the majority dislike the changes.
(hitting for 200 is a lot)

Loot Profile Fix was the proverbial straw that broke my camels back and it is the #1 issue I will berate Turbine on until they fix it or I leave.

I hunted Majors for 6-12 months.
I had 2 that my chars used and I sold 2.
If that is their idea of uber out of control loot then I will try and change their minds...if I fail I leave.

Pre patch (2 patches back) I played nightly for hours.
Since their last 2 patches I have played a total of a few hours and am disgusted with the changes.

And non their should -never- have been static spawns of Cabalists. Who ever put those into the game should not get to make a game design desicion for 6 months as punishment for lack of insight.

Inashadow (a paying customer for 4+ years)

PS Static Cabalist Spawns were the trouble with loot -NOT- the entire loot system which was extremely unique and =INTERESTING=.
Today it is boring...your server populations reflect this boredom.

Fix it soon or else you won't have much of anything to fix.

Cotonagiu

03-14-2004, 03:27 AM

wow, 5 dev posts including the first post in 16 pages of comments requesting feedback... and to think I used to stick up for the devs...

pity im not Donald Trump, or Id fire all of you :P

Emagik

03-14-2004, 07:49 AM

What was the purpose of changing the lvl 1 spells and adding limits to them? Using stam to heath lvl 1 use to be a life saver. Now you only get 50 hp max and half your stamina is gone. Come on guys you know this ain't right. I dont see any DEVS putting limits on using heal kits! A toon can use a heal kit and get 200+ heal in seconds and a lvl 7 heal is 75-125 point of health and takes 3 times as long to cast. The nerf to lvl 1 spell is bad for pvp and pvm. Thats like having a melee use a treated kit and lose half his stamina and gets only 50 health back. Are we going to see another hot fix?

Emagik

03-14-2004, 08:08 AM

I think all the DEVS play sword characters. The last few patches cater to them. :)

Archers and mages cant use shields while attacking. This added debuff creates an imbalance of power. For evey spell there is a anti-spell. You guy added a spell without adding its counter spell.
Shame shame on you!

example: bood drinker / blood loather
get my drift?

Munjed

03-14-2004, 10:38 AM

I want lvl 1 spells put back.....

this May drive me from pk... as already I was playin at an all time high.... Now all I do is log on for 5 min.. and log back off.

If there is no point in me loggin on anymore.. there is no point in payin 120+ per month.

Munjed

03-14-2004, 10:39 AM

I really Would like no know if turbine plans on changing back the lvl 1 spells.

We all told you it was a bad idea before you did it.

Now we know its a bad idea.

So???? whats your plan?

Addiction

03-14-2004, 11:38 AM

Since the patch I have been online 20minuites, whereas my usual average woulda been more like 40hours.

This is a total joke and I seriously hope some of you get fired for this. You ruined all balance in PVP and cost AC a lot of paid accounts. May god forgive you.

Giarc

03-14-2004, 02:23 PM

Addiction if you are going to quote the USMC slogan, then at least spell it right.

SEMPER FIDELIS

ALWAYS FAITHFUL

knopp

03-14-2004, 03:07 PM

I think that the AC Live team should be taken 100% from the gaming community.

Fire everyone you have now, and put out the "call" to the playerbase.

Im sure you will find at least 10 people in teh entire AC population that would meet the skills required to do this.

And get rid of Jessica Mulligan. When I met er at ACPL, I could tell she was cocky and arrogant, but I thought she was just that good and knew it.

I was wrong, because it is blatatly obvious that she is clueless to even let these kind of changes take place.

I VOTE FOR JOHN LINDEMUTH AS AC1 EXECUTIVE PRODUCER!

There is a man that would make this game great again!

Kyayote

03-14-2004, 05:14 PM

The new quest is cool although I got portaled out after we killed the boss & did not get my prize. Loot still leaves a little to be desired ( I know you are not finished). I hunt vod alot & well I have not seen a mojor in 2 months, not even a crappy one.
Kya

StarchaserX

03-14-2004, 07:31 PM

That is why the brittlemail bites so hard.

There are 2 places a melee can put a cov item:
shield or chest to protect from the spell effects.
(or even an xtal shield, etc.)

Archers and Mages have 1 less armor slot= less flexibility,
=less ability to adapt to the changes overall.

Before it was easy to balance the shield/melee attack
and
mage/archer no shield/ranged attack.

Now you are throwing in more variables and complicating the equation without truly knowing what the final result is.

Until a dispell is in place, with a spell announcement,
the odds are far from balanced.

Skill and talent will only carry so far.

Neue Regel

03-14-2004, 08:44 PM

Last patch was the worst patch I have ever been though in 3 years of playing this game. I could not wait for March's patch to come. I can honestly say, this is even worse becasue of the let down aspect. We were told the loot was going to be fixed. It was fixed allright, removed from the game aparently. I have given you my chance, subscriptions (3) are gone. Final Fantasy XI here I come.

Insane Kitty

03-15-2004, 07:45 AM

/sarcasm on

now that you have totally fubar'd us mages, think you can make heal self VI do only 20 pts of healing while you are at it? and heal self VII can do 25!

/sarcasm off

but seriously, why did us mages use Sta->health 1 so much? IT WAS RELIABLE ON HOW MUCH IT HEALED, AND IT WAS QUICK Now we are screwed trying to heal. (even in PvM)

Heal Self VI - 50-100, so often I see it in the 50-59 range, not often enough 80+. How about changing Heal Self so it is actually usefull. Make Heal Self VI do 80-120, Heal Self VII do 120-150. Or leave it in the range it is now, but allow it to be cast a lot quicker. Nothing like winding up and getting hit for more then I can heal with a spell from a melee's sword.

raretext

03-15-2004, 03:00 PM

Turbine please dont take away the ability to buff other people by selecting them. Yes this would default the chest but it would also include robes if they were wearing them. This is a great ability that would be a great loss to have it removed just because of people not able to adjust tactics to the PK changes. I understand it might not be in the "tech" to leave that in and just remove the negative spells part. But you guys were actually making progress by adding that.

Will of Stone

03-15-2004, 04:53 PM

Ok, my hats off to you guys!!

Thanks for listening to the volume of players posting, and not necessarily to the tenor of their wails. I know a lot of people posted some VERY not nice things, but there were also a lot of people who took the time to try to convince you of the errors of these changes. I am speaking directly of the following post:

http://forums.ac.turbinegames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4780

It is nice to see that you realized your mistake. I have had nothing but positive comments to make about Turbine, and it was your reacquisition of the AC title that kept me here. I have three accounts, and had been preparing them for sale. (Perfectly legal, as I am the original owner of all three, and the eula allows for a single transfer of ownership) It is nice to know I can stow those screenies away, and resume my playing of this great game.

I hope that the changes you have implemented with communicating with your player base BEFORE changes are made, and your now proven willingness to make sure balance remains by removing/rolling back changes that are ineffective will keep the player base that have been loyal for so many years.

Again, my hats off to you guys at Turbine!! Keep up the good work.

Will of Stone/Mordachai

PS. Bet some of those guys who jumped the gun and sold/deleted their accounts already are chewin on rocks now :-)

2-legit

03-15-2004, 05:37 PM

wow surprised they did this. On a side note don't hold back on triing to improve pk/pkl just try to keep in mind all that you implement has a very drastic reprocusion on dt and pk in general. Dt is always here to hear what you what to put in you have a server that does nothing but pk maybe int he feature you can use that and ask us what we think. In the mean time Thanks

-Kaxak-

03-15-2004, 09:57 PM

:) Ownd :)

Now Please tell us the Spell Trans is gonna change too

we need s2h 1 , in both PvP and PvM :D

TRuthSeer

03-16-2004, 02:42 AM

:cool:

MaddyFF

03-16-2004, 04:21 AM

Originally posted by Munjed
I really Would like no know if turbine plans on changing back the lvl 1 spells.

We all told you it was a bad idea before you did it.

Now we know its a bad idea.

We all did? Sorry, I like the idea and hope they don't cave in, was a needed change.

What I will be curious about is how they will deal with the hookable portals being used in villas and cottages.

Dom on TD

03-16-2004, 07:33 AM

What's the big deal about hookable portals on villas and cottages? I don't deserve one because I didn't do cross server xchanges with 4 accounts and save up 300 sings to buy a mansion? I'll be the 1st to admit that monarchs get no perks now, since they turbined the XP passup, but Turbine knew that when the did it. Mansions are the only thing they have now, but not all monarchs have them. If they did, everyone would be a monarch. So why give this item only to the few monarchs that have mansions? Seems like it should be available to everyone. 5 chests should be plenty of compensation for the maintenance of a mansion. If it isn't, abandon it. Someone will be glad to pay it.

Emagik

03-16-2004, 08:24 AM

Originally posted by MaddyFF
We all did? Sorry, I like the idea and hope they don't cave in, was a needed change.

What I will be curious about is how they will deal with the hookable portals being used in villas and cottages.

Just beacuae the lvl spell change didnt affect your character doesnt mean it was a good change. How would you like it if they made heal kits and potions 50 health max? And take away 50% of your stamina everytime you use it. They made a mistake and admitted to it. And there going to fix it 3/18

Chromium Golem

03-16-2004, 04:15 PM

I would like to know what will happen to the portals hooked on cottages and villas. Your announcements for the 3/18 patch says they will stay there. But, will they work?

http://forums.turbinegames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4780

In a previous announcement it was indicated that these portals are intended only to be used on mansions and this should be fixed by the April event.

http://forums.turbinegames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4291

Now, I'm confused.... as well as many other players as to what will happen if anything to the portals people have hooked on cottages and villas.

One thing you may like to know is that many players are getting the portals and selling them for large amounts of sings... with 75-100 being the normal rate. Yesterday on vnboards for Harvestgain there were many posts of people selling the portals and people pointed to your 3/18 announcement as proof that if you buy one now and hook it on that it will stay there and you will have something that others won't have.

So, the people who exploit early get to have a portal while the people who don't take advantage of this bug don't get to have a portal? I would like to know.

Same T'ing

03-16-2004, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by Chromium Golem

So, the people who exploit early get to have a portal while the people who don't take advantage of this bug don't get to have a
portal? I would like to know.

Yeah, like the people that have THOUSANDS of Plats ???
That one REALLY was not fixed quick enough.......

PS.... I got my plats the old fashioned way, I bought them

:D

Eph

03-16-2004, 08:15 PM

The people that have thousands of Plats got them the old fashion way too. Just like you, they bought them.

Emagik

03-17-2004, 12:57 PM

Not always the case. You can trade cantrips for mucho plats. I cant see someone going out hunting and selling for 1000 plats.

At least after the recent patches.

Same T'ing

03-17-2004, 04:40 PM

Originally posted by Eph
The people that have thousands of Plats got them the old
fashion way too. Just like you, they bought them.

I am not going to argue with you, but I know for a fact
that the prior bugs with the fletching and skills area
had people making plats by the bucket. People have
shared that fact for years with me.

Ibn

03-17-2004, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by Chromium Golem
So, the people who exploit early get to have a portal while the people who don't take advantage of this bug don't get to have a portal? I would like to know.

At the moment, the only thing we are doing is changing them so that they can no longer be hookable on non-mansions. We are investigating making them not work on non-mansions but that is considerably more challenging and I make no guarantees.

Dom on TD

03-17-2004, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by Ibn
At the moment, the only thing we are doing is changing them so that they can no longer be hookable on non-mansions. We are investigating making them not work on non-mansions but that is considerably more challenging and I make no guarantees.

What does it hurt to let non-mansions have them? I don't have one, and since you won't let me hook it after tomorrow, I see no point in ever doing that quest. How many mansions are there? and how many servers? Seems like alot of waste making a quest where the best reward is only usable by a VERY small minority.

ArtilexOfDarkti

03-17-2004, 09:12 PM

The Portal thing being limited to masnions makes it so people would prefer mansions over villas. After villas gained the ability to have people recall to them mansions were useless because they were just plain expensive. Now there might be a reason to own a mansion... so talk to your monarch and buy one.

-Artilex

Chromium Golem

03-18-2004, 01:04 AM

Just did Blackmire tonight. Took us a couple hours then when we finally got to fight the boss man we portalled in and there was another fellow in there. The boss man was almost dead. Then when he died we all clicked on the statue and went into the final room. Nobody in our fellow could get the armor. It said something like... other grave robbers have taken everything. We all got to pick one other reward but not getting the armor after all that work was a big let down.

Dom on TD

03-18-2004, 07:20 AM

Originally posted by ArtilexOfDarkti
The Portal thing being limited to masnions makes it so people would prefer mansions over villas. After villas gained the ability to have people recall to them mansions were useless because they were just plain expensive. Now there might be a reason to own a mansion... so talk to your monarch and buy one.

-Artilex

Oh really? I never knew we actually had a choice. Since there are no mansions available, it seems that even tho they're expensive, they're all taken. If you have one on TD that you don't want, let me know. I paid my former monarch's maintenance for 6 months and never had a problem with it(he had serious RL issues that took up most of his time). I wasn't even granted chest access for most of that time. I never even thought to ask. My current monarch also has mansion, and the portal, so I'm not complaining for me. I just think people with monarch's that don't have mansions are being shorted in this deal. I don't see a reason to add incentives to buy mansions. They're all taken. They're just giving us a reason to be upset over the shortage of mansions.

bobjava

03-18-2004, 09:00 AM

Leave the portals hookable at cottages and villas.

There are not enough mansions to go around. If you dont want to be a monarch and own a mansion, let it go, I am sure it will take a least 5 mins to get taken.

Zydorea

03-18-2004, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by Entropathic
Dig the crafting confirmation!!

simple - with no particular magic - all the dullards think is their BP is rattling, etc - perfectly normal; as your magic improves - you might see it better - but from the team - they have to write it - might take a few to scenic

:cool:

note: some forum items are nearly invisible on my screen due to size and button placement - this item was intended to apply to the adjacent post

Zydorea

03-18-2004, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by Ibn
At the moment, the only thing we are doing is changing them so that they can no longer be hookable on non-mansions. We are investigating making them not work on non-mansions but that is considerably more challenging and I make no guarantees. [B][SIZE=3][FONT=century gothic][COLOR=orangered]

lol - working at non-mansions? not a prob - jump through - and if there's nobody to pick it up - it evaporates - its a carry item - and having it work outside the door but not in makes no sense - tho some uber casters might be able to make such a thing.

Zydorea

03-18-2004, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by Zydorea
[B][SIZE=3][FONT=century gothic][COLOR=orangered]

lol - working at non-mansions? not a prob - jump through - and if there's nobody to pick it up - it evaporates - its a carry item - and having it work outside the door but not in makes no sense - tho some uber casters might be able to make such a thing.

:( actually - this event is related to the 'hookable landscape' issue, where players desire for items on l-scape conflicts with server imperatives (world imperatives) in the rl model - four 'summon-portal' mages can hold the thing anywhere and have it run (or 1 if sufficiently powerful) or hook it for example in a doorway or empty portal frame... (sometimes fails due to monster castings etc).

Zydorea

03-18-2004, 11:04 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by raretext
Turbine [B]please dont take away the ability to buff other people by selecting them. Yes this would default the chest but it would also include robes if they were wearing them.

roflmalo. i think its a great buff, but usually keyed to skill in item id - more skill/more buff ability - no skill, no buff - all he arfing shows that it works - grt going, team.

:eek:

Zydorea

03-18-2004, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by Emagik
What was the purpose of changing the lvl 1 spells and adding limits to them? Using stam to heath lvl 1 use to be a life saver. Now you only get 50 hp max and half your stamina is gone. Come on guys you know this ain't right. I dont see any DEVS putting limits on using heal kits! A toon can use a heal kit and get 200+ heal in seconds and a lvl 7 heal is 75-125 point of health and takes 3 times as long to cast. The nerf to lvl 1 spell is bad for pvp and pvm. Thats like having a melee use a treated kit and lose half his stamina and gets only 50 health back. Are we going to see another hot fix?

ow - and it hurts so much to learn a II... whoops good thing i dont pvp much - but no, what im getting is you lose what you transfer - only that is a manaC modifier, from 30% return base...

(except i bet you'd really hate that)

:p

Zydorea

03-18-2004, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by Meuzzin
Ibn,

Just curious...

What makes you guys think anyone would want to play a whole month with this half implimented PVP dynamic? Why can't you guys just put it in when it's completed? Seriously. I mean, when you guys pile into a meeting room to discuss these things, don't you look at it from different angles?

Just kind of disappointed in AC lately. I'm also very curious to know what drives these changes. Although, looking back, it seems Turbine has always been playing the balancing game. Always playing it in the wrong direction.

*smirks evilly*
i'vs played this game since the servers were down for a full week - just for the monthly update. this is a complex change - it may take a while

;)

Zydorea

03-18-2004, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by Ibn
Use this thread to give us your feedback on the March 2004 event: Across the Vast Divide (http://ac.turbinegames.com/index.php?page_id=208).

it used to take me 1 - 2 weeks to find 'leveraged' magic items that will run for a developing char. now all the loot in the SOSO fortresses is bogus - tho the money is better mostly and you've got me hunting - i expect that means 'good change' - but ive been hunting for days, and my main is handicapped.

(just so you know i can whine too)

:p

Mousey_LC

03-18-2004, 12:08 PM

The Cantrip spells associated with the Decrepit Tower Quest (Thew, Zeal, and Finesse) override Moderate and Major Cantrips. These spells should be overridden by Moderates and Majors.

IS this ever going to be fixed?? Says my major coord is still surpassed by finesse????

Magical Arrow

03-18-2004, 12:17 PM

Personnaly i'm not a PK so i dont really care about PvP changes. But i absolutly not agree the Loot changes. when u find on lvl 100+ monster lead peas, leather armor and only 2 items with 1 minor spell on it all that in 48 hours playing it makes u angry. Only the monsters in VoD seems to drop plat or gold scarabs, but the other items are not much better.

I'm playing AC for 4 years now for a total of several thousands hours played.

And i agree with players that wants to delete their account (or wants to do it soon if it doesnt change).

If i were u i would repair those mistakes asap because the more people leaves now the more u'll loose players in the future cause it's not funny to play alone.

If u do not change that AC will have to close definitly in a couple of months because u'll spend more money for maintenance than u receive with the players subscritions. and the consequence in that situation is ??

AC in the bean... and some of turbine devs will have to find a new job... not a very happy perspective...
Well there's always a chance to find someone to rebuy it... but....

Careful !

Erius

03-18-2004, 05:28 PM

turbine, im completely ashamed in you. so much so that im not going to give you proper punctuation.

you guys know for a fact that mages are completely overpowered pvp. you guys implement a change to where damage not done by spells is actually somewhat near the damage done by a mage. and yet because a people (probably mages) decide to whine about it, you change it. you know that you had the right idea when you made the change, otherwise you would not have put it in. you know that it would alleviated a lot of balancing issues you guys seem to have. and yet you took it out. how shameful.

you could give them back there little life exchange spell and leave this change in, and you would probably never hear complaints again.

the item buff/debuff on chest did a LOT more good than bad. now you guys have issues like...how do we make bow as good as sword, how do we make other missile weapons worthwile pvp. you guys messed up a good thing, just because someone couldnt handle the change and most likely that being a mage.

yes i play on a "carebear server" but i choose to play my lvl mid 90 archer over my 160+ mage. why? because mages are overpowered and i like to challenge myself, also i like being able to dodge in a bigger area. im not saying im a good pker, just that i do it for fun. when you guys made this change, it made pvp for me seem a lot more fun.

reason being is that you had a lot more options, mages could hotkey their chest armor, and "try" not to let you cast spells on it, and if a weapon was debuffed, you could switch to another. it wasnt just goss flesh vuln and hope the mage cant recover quick enough, but even with the nerf to exchange, mages could still recover well.

it all boiled down to skill pvp. and it seems to me, you guys listened to the whiney mages that are used to being gods without much skill to it, rather than knowing that this change brought balance and skill into pvp. and wasnt that the goal?...balance and skill rather than template and wether or not you're a mage?

when this was implemented, im sure it brought more people to the pkl scene, and mages used to being the gods of that scene felt nerfed.

i say give the whiney mages their old life exchange spell back, and give the melee/missiles their new item debuff back.

i think that would balance it quite well, and you guys would only need a few tweaks to the melee weapons classes.

just my opinion, and im still ashamed at you turbine. :mad: