Will PKL Ever be removed?

[-Darkfist-]

I Have pk'ed for 3 years, And this PKL is really a drag, And even the people who wanted PKL When it became avaiable, Now think its pretty lame. I have had many many friends quit because of it.

I was just wondering if A removal has ever been consiterd? I mean, Its been out a few months now, I think anyone intrested in PVP has now had enough pratice to compete.. ( tho people for 3 years delt with it).

This possible?

[RocDynasty]

Dude alot of people wanted it so they are not going to get rid of it that fast anyway. Its only on npk servers, if you want real pk hit DT and play in the big dogs yard.

[-Darkfist-]

I'v also been playing dt for 3 years=) 126 +.

But I have a lot of Friends i enjoyed "Real" pk with on mt.

[RocDynasty]

Yeah only thing I hate about pkl is the noobs cant handle debuffs or gem or anything. They whine when they lose or you go too hard on them. You gang them and whatever. And you get the occasional "WTF U ATTCKIN MEH 4!"

[Virindi Clown]

Maybe you should be able to go from NPK to PK and back a lot easier. After a while, people would probably catch on, and then everyone would jump on the bandwagon, seeing as they would know what they were doing (hopefully) after a good deal of PKL.

[-Darkfist-]

^ good idea Maybe an alter to recall to? Maybe like in the tower on AE ( at the drop)

And maybe like a 1 hour or 30 min timer

[Virindi Clown]

It shouldn't be a command. 30 minute timer would probably be good.

[HeXt]

The only differences between PK and PKL is looting (and vitae but whats the big deal? It burns fast) Most of us who do use pKL dont like looting. It's funny now you see the majority of pk's didnt want looters in the first place. :)

[sylphia]

PKL is for fun; even if some gang of jerks DO jump in on your fight, all you can lose is your buffs. No reason to remove it.

One of my clan mates challenged me to a PKL fight, and I accepted. We both went PKL, and he was touching up a couple of buffs that were lacking. While he was buffing, someone else who was standing JUST off the radar and saw him go PKL, also did it and jumped him while he was at half health. My clan mate wasnt baned and was runing on minimal protections; just so happens the other guy (an archer, my clan mate was a melee) was using electric; one of the pro's my clan mate didnt yethave on. The archer was, of course, fully buffed and baned, and it was only a matter of time until he killed my clan mate. Fortunately, I am in the habit of ALWAYS runing fully baned and buffed on my mage. The guy that jumped my clan mate quickly realized he had made a serious mistake, not knowing I was there and PKL, since i was much further away when i went PKL. Realizing he had a lvl 126 mage on his butt, he tried the typical breaks and dodges and gems, etc. Well we know mages rule, even the ones that suck ( :D ), so his corpse quickly joined that of my clan mate's. Then he had the nerve to talk trash about how it "took two of us to kill him".

Needless to say, that idiot is now part of my perma-squelch list. After his interuption, we did what we SHOULD have done in the first place and recalled to the monarch's villa where we could duel in peace. PKL has spread the current PK philosophy that its ok to jump anyone anywhere, even when you know its a private duel. On the up-side, it still doesnt give them the ability to loot you when you die. Despite the rudeness of this jerk, we still enjoyed OUR duel. PKL as opposed to PK removes the "bad" part of dieing in a PvP situation (other than the rude jerks, which only a well-enforced CoC can deal with).

From time to time, we like to "put on the pink suits" and spar. Its like a boxing exibition match as opposed to a knife-fight. Sure, you COULD go PK and deal with all that entails, but why? PKL lets you do the sparring part without risking something over interference from jerks. And if you STILL want to go red, its still an option. I can certainly find better things to quit a game over rather then whether or not other plp are going red, especially when there is a server FULL of red dots just a few mouse clicks away. And there is certainly no reason to remove PKL at all.

[Paraduck]

I doubt they'll remove it, but there should definitely be more incentives for going red. PK Trophies (Which can be handed in for comps, kits, gems, xp... hooked... whatever), would be a nice addition. Of course, these won't apply to PKL players since the purpose is to have more people going red than pink.

[-Darkfist-]

HI para :)

[Virindi Clown]

When you kill someone it should give you some item on their corpse as a trophy that has some value proportional to their total xp (not level). Then you would get some type of reward for turning that in somewhere, and it shouldn't be money or xp. It should be something entirely different, but I'm not going to bother trying to figure this out because its been suggested a million times and just been thrown out the window.

[sylphia]

The one big problem with this is that if you make it any kind of reward someone would want, some goof will set up a macro between 2 accounts, take them red, and have one killing the other over and over again.

One thing they could add would be a "pk ranking" (and a seperate one for pkl) similar to the chess ranking. You can only gain rank by killing someone relatively close in rakn to you. Killing someone drops their rank, so a macro would be self-defeating in this case. You wouldnt have any physical item that says you killed a given toon, but you WOULD have something to compare yourself to someone else. Of course, the ranking would need to show up in the character ID panel; whether you could se eit through deception or not....I could see that going either way :)

[smaweet]

it's called DIs hext...
kill 4 olthoi, kill the vp, and pick up 10 8k+ items
it's not that hard, just people like you have to cry about it and ruin it for the others

[sylphia]

It doesnt look like HeXt is crying to me. I happen to agree with what he said this time. I dont like looting; either winning or losing. If I want to put up something for stakes, thats my option, but I dont like the game deciding FOR me what is u for grabs.

Your comment about 8K DIs is absurd. Most of my gear is 25K; THAT would be the DI if i used the ones you mentioned. The point to PKL is that you can get all the thrills of PK without the penalties. Again, the only thing that PK offers which PKL does not is vitae (I can get that on my own thank you very much :D ) and the ability to loot. When playing against a seasoned PvP, all that will net yo uis some high-end DIs to protect your OWN stuff when someone smokes you--or to sell to the nearest vendor to buy plats.

*shrug* Personally I PvP for the novelty, the higher challenge than when fighting a limited AI. Not for the chance to give up my own stuff or to take someone else's. Again, if I want that, I wil place a bet with my opponent that both of us can live with.

[RocDynasty]

People who cant take the time to loot a few things for a day and mule them is lazy. You dont deserve to be called a real pk.

[Virindi Clown]

Sylphia, I have thought of that, but like I said, I won't go into any detail on a way to avoid it, which can easily be done, but it's not like it's ever going to happen. People have always talked about that and asked for it and all we got was PKL, zero items lol. That's practically what no-drop guys are, and I think you need to get something off them, and also be rewarded in some way for getting a kill.

As for the pk rank, I have no clue why that doesn't exist. Like everyone past level 80 or something should be ranked, that way people dont camp newb outposts, like with PK hunter.

[RocDynasty]

Pk hunter is a joke. Its inaccurate and gives people an excuse to run from everything.

[HeXt]

Originally posted by sylphia



*shrug* Personally I PvP for the novelty, the higher challenge than when fighting a limited AI. Not for the chance to give up my own stuff or to take someone else's. Again, if I want that, I wil place a bet with my opponent that both of us can live with.


I think you, like many of us, just fight for the fight alone rather than who wins. Which is exactly why most of us continue to love PKL. :)





And I know I hate PKhunter because it's just an artificial ego booster like Treestats or whatever else.

[sylphia]

Originally posted by HeXt
I think you, like many of us, just fight for the fight alone rather than who wins. Which is exactly why most of us continue to love PKL. :)


Right on the button. I like to win, but I like to spar, regardless of who wins. In my clan, I am the guy to beat...not becaus ei am SO fabulous in PK (even though I have only died 3 times in PK fights :D ), but because I used to be the monarch, I have played for four years, I have a strong toon, blah blah blah, and its just "the thing" to beat "the boss". Anyone I PKL with in-clan enjoys the fight, even though it results in their smoking corpse :D The folks I duel with outside of clan know I am fair-play oriented; I dont jump, I let them buff, will even help them buff if needed.

PKL lets us do all that without worrying about consequences, and I am personally thankful that the devs added it. Trophies dont really mean much to me, though I am sure it would motivate most of the clan to hunt me down if there was a chance for a trophy to hang on their wall :)

[Tara Malkav]

Pkl is just rather boring if you ask me. If you win, you get absolutely nothing. If you lose, you have to rebuff which is a lovely pain.

I think we should atleast be able to recall to Pk shrines so more people go red. I mean atleast Pk'ing had a point. What's the point in fighting someone Pkl when there isn't really anything to gain? It's sickening how many people go Pkl instead of Pk. Pkl has basicly ruined the Pk scene on all Npk worlds. By this I mean.. the whole point of Pk was taken away. Not just to fight, but to have a reason to fight back. Pk'ing should have all the consequences of fighting creatures.

[sylphia]

If you cant find enough PKs on white worlds, there is always DT; no one can go PKL there. Of course, you get a whole other ball of abusive wax to go along with it--the same ball most ppl chose to avoid by going PKL rather than PK in the first place. TO be quite honest, at this point, I wouldnt mind seeing "true PK" removed from the white servers. Its pretty much the concensus that it is all but dead anywhere but DT. Anyone feeling the need to scrap can go pink at any time; removing PK from white worlds would ensure that everyone is either white or killable by those who are not, rather than 2 "sublasses" of non-PK that cant cross-affect each other.

And anyone that wants to fight for loot can agree to a "wager" beofrhand. Sure, the only thing holding each person to that is their own honor, but it also removes the chance they may have 3 friends waiting in the wings to jump you and take your gear in a gang-fight yo udidnt agreee to, but have no choice in, since you are red and not pink.

Rather than petitioning the removal of PKL, perhaps we should seriously consider removing PK from all worlds except DT. PKL serve the purpose in the majority of our fights, and there is still always a server where PK is the rule of the hardcore fighters.

[Virindi Clown]

There's no reason to remove PK. It doesn't hurt anything by being there. There should just be more of a point to it, over the little command you get to have your friendly duels or whatever.

Maybe instead of being able to change from PK and back like with PKL, you should be stuck with it, like on DT. Then they could give some rewards for killing people that would actually allow you to progress through the game in some way just by killing lots of people in fights. If you could change back to NPK on the other servers, then it wouldn't be fair, because people would try and use it to just benefit themselves quickly and then go back to normal. Besides, you can already change back from PKL to NPK, so NPK to PK and back is kind of redundant. It's all redundant, that's why no one plays red.

[sylphia]

Never said PK hurts anything VC. But it IS the general concensus that its all but dead on white servers now; just look around and count how many red dots you see in a weeks time now, for the proof in that statement :)

Making PK permanent on a white server is a bad idea; thats what DT is for in the first place; anyone who goes PK and later decides they dont like it (whether because there simply arent enough ppl who are red, or because they just wind up not liking PK itself) are screwed. I am aware that in that case, PKL is kind of like a test for it, but it still shouldnt be something you cant get out of on a white server.

As far as I am personally concerned, PK already has all of the benefits and penalties associated with it that it needs to. The addition of PKL just reduces the number of folks to compete with in the same setting. Its pretty obvious that most ppl really PvP for the thrill of a new challenge, not for looting, and certainly not for gaining vitae :) The fact that so many ppl have gone over to PKL pretty much proves that. And for the folks that DO like the added risk and rewards, there is a server that is 24/7, 100% red. It means you have to start at the bottom of the food chain, but thats part of life on DT: everyone takes their lumps, and everyone pays their dues.

On the white servers, PK is pretty much useless. It doesnt NEED to be removed, but at the same time, doing so wouldnt really have any measurable negative impact at this point.

[RocDynasty]

Thats why I play DT more. Sick of noobs saying "WTF U ATTCKIN MEH 4!" or "UR A PUSS U DEBUFF". I need to see some real pks to fight not some wanksters who think they are tough because they killed a lvl 5 in 1 shot.

[sylphia]

Originally posted by RocDynasty
I need to see some real pks to fight not some wanksters who think they are tough because they killed a lvl 5 in 1 shot.

Are we talking about the same DT here? Thats the rule of thumb on DT; LVL 126 toons routinely camp starter towns in order to jump the lvl 1 toons as they port in. Its one of the "dues" you pay for playing DT.

[Virindi Clown]

Anyone who camps starter towns, even a level 1, is an o.0.

And I don't think PK has any reward to it. No one "owns" anything anymore. That used to be the reward, but thanks to our zillion recalls and private dungeons it doesn't even matter. Being able to be completely no-drop except for gaunts ruins it, as well. I hate killing people and taking tapers off them, when they could kill you and possibly loot tinkered stuff.

[Fiction_LC]

heres an ida
Dont like PKL? Go normal pk im sure some one else will come to fight you.

[RocDynasty]

"Are we talking about the same DT here? Thats the rule of thumb on DT; LVL 126 toons routinely camp starter towns in order to jump the lvl 1 toons as they port in. Its one of the "dues" you pay for playing DT."

Talking about white servers worlds, not DT :)

[sylphia]

Its a pretty accurate descrpition of DT; folks on white servers tend to all wait until 80+ to PK. You dont have a choice on DT, and there are ALWAYS idjits hanging out in starter towns waiting for fresh meat. I equate this to runing around killing rabbits all day (both loot AND xp-wise), but apparently its the thrill of a lifetime for some folks. I keep wanting to make a toon named Elmer Fudd on DT, just to see if anyone would get it...

[RocDynasty]

It works for DT as well. I hate those people who think they can kill 5+ lvl 15s at the same time, think they are l337.

[Mistikal]

IMO ( coming from the MT server )

The cycle was vicious.

It all boiled down to the max resist/<insert attack> chars that dictated the *red* scene.

This exploded into a few guilds forming xp chains solely to cater to Pk and an attempt to *own* the server.

It only ended up breeding hate and distrust. This was obvious with guild jumping to the current most productive chain.

It would end up having a guild implode and the chain would dismantle and re-build the best it could.

Eventually the server started to swell with maxed chars and the same people standing around sub holding hands. They complained about not having any new *blood* to spill. However, when there was a new char that attempted to go red, they would get ganked and looted by the very same people that were complaining.

This led to the red scene population starting to dwindle slowly month to month.

Then Pkl came along..

Tada!

No longer does it matter if you are the maxed char everyone hated, no longer did it matter if you were part of the *in* guild that month and were holding hands at sub waiting for someone to portal in. No longer did it matter that you new the latest and greates cheat/exploit because there was NO risk.

All of a sudden there is a huge shift for people trying PvP for the first time. People that always wanted to give it a shot but did not want to deal with the current politic or worry about losing items to that maxed char you did not stand a chance against.

All of a sudden the big power house guilds all but dismantled. No longer did it matter who held the Lucana fellows.

The stale and very dilapidated dynamic we knew as PvP is now changed forever on white servers. And to be honest, it needed it.

I get a kick out of listening to the hard core Pk people saying they hate Pkl and how there is no risk and whats the point?

What I dont understand is..

Why not just stay red? If the old population would have just stayed red and kept along their path, then they would still be holding hands at the latest hot spot waiting for the same people to portal in.

Nothing changed for them, not one single thing.

Other then the fact that their maxed skills and current *in* guild no longer ment squat.


Sorry for the length of this post, however, it is fact, all of it.

[HeXt]

I still think PKL is fine as it is... The looters are just mad because they now see the true majority of the servers.

[nadaprada]

I like pkl it's more fun than PK.

[phitch]

what a crock. People going PK and having fun because they can! That should never happen, PK should be the domain of DT and no one else and Turbine has no right having anyone being able to go PK let alone PKL on any server other than DT!

It's so strange seeing people ***** and quit over a new function of the game? How did PKL effect anyone? Why on earth quit? Because the people who were Red aren't anymore because they didn't want to lose items? If you beat them you beat them. Period. If you need to hold some "I have your loot" mockery over them that's sad. Who the heck would quit over that? If DI's can be replaced by hunting and gathering a 8k plus items than any pride you can take in having items taken from someone can be achieved in the same method. And since PKL can't attack PK it doesn't change much to the people who want to keep red.

This was a pretty sad plea for attention on an issue that doesn't need to be solved.

[Binky]

The only reason RP'ers wanted PKL is so they can pk in their l33ty 40k + value armor, which I would think honestly goes against the entire reason of the Salvage system.

What is the point of pine, if no one needs to use it seeing as they can never lose their items.

PKL makes, what would normal be a POS Major into an UBER Major Item. It messes with the economy. UBER major items are LOW VALUE (or tinkable to low value) LOW craft HIGH al items, they are SUPPOSED to be rare. All PKL does it make the need for searching for these items decrease dramatically, as almost any old major you find you can use in pkl, ignore pining it, and just put as much steel as possible on it.

I don't play a white server, never have, never will, so this doesn't affect me in anyway, so I figured you might like an OBJECTIVE opinion of the situation.

[Me-Be-Mage]

I love PKl would never have tryed to go red. I like it i think it's great, as for the risk part of it why not put a couple of MMD notes on a fight before you start, i think that solves any problem of risk.

[phitch]

only no drop stuff? So we will all become Mages and PK in no drop and you can be happy. That's not an objective opinion at all. It's still an opinion. Just like mine is.

I don't think I should have to dual someone and drop my leet stuff. I play to gain items I can use. I don't gain items to drop them a moment later... that's what monsters are for.

[Binky]

Originally posted by phitch
only no drop stuff? So we will all become Mages and PK in no drop and you can be happy. That's not an objective opinion at all. It's still an opinion. Just like mine is.

I don't think I should have to dual someone and drop my leet stuff. I play to gain items I can use. I don't gain items to drop them a moment later... that's what monsters are for.

I never said "no drop." No drop would be runnin around in gsx and some store bought sols/helm/gloves. I do not feel the developers of AC were trying to make a 50k value al 250 major item the "norm" for armor. That's the whole point of death items/dropping loot etc ...... This game is about RISK VS REWARD. There is NO risk with pkl, none whatsoever. Personally, I think the BEST thing Turbine could do is remove ALL pk and pkl options from white servers and force you all to come pk on a REAL rpk server, where dying and living actually MEANS something.

Right now with pkl and even just the "rpk" attitudes coming from the white servers, I think Turbine and the developers are going in the opposite direction of the intention of pvp. DT'ers (real pvpers) want risk vs reward, we want more people to want to pk, and all turbine is doing is catering to a bunch of whiney rp'ers who want to be able to have a "matching 100k value pvp outfit" without the risk of EVER losing a single item. Turbine is already lenient as hell when it comes to death items in this game for pvp and for pvm. Look at other successful rpgs, most of them you lose EVERYTHING on your body when you die and have to hurry back to it to loot it. It disgusts me to see some of the things the "rp population want" (and no I hae nothing personal against RP'ers I've done it in other games, and still enjoyed the pvp aspect). You want LESS risk, EASIER monsters to kill, MORE emotes/marriage features (I'm sorry but with so many bugs needing fixing, small balance tweaks for pvp to be made, I can't believe they actually waste patches on that stuff at this moment).

[Oginski]

PKL was just a lame idea, people could go PK and practice just DONT WEAR THEIR GOOD ARMOR.. who cares what is 5 vp and no death items if you have gsc al 50 sollies and quest items ? lol