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View Full Version : I have never seen so many foolish and misguided suggestions concerning PVP in my life


Kurak
04-11-2004, 07:56 AM
First, let me address pklite.

I will give you my opinion, and tell you how it must evolve regardless of the fact that it's an insult to AC PVP.

My opinion - PKlite is a soft and insulting travesty that offends the basis of PVP in asheron's call

How it must evolve - Pk lite as it is now, is horrible, consequence free, and soft. I always said that the only thing pk lite will do, is give moronic little kids a way to trash talk without any chance of punishment and basically get away with anything, and with this, drive the true PVPers away.

PKlite is not a "horrid" idea (though IMO is still pretty bad). What must happen with pk lite is the placement of restrictions. People running around killing and getting killed with no death, vitae, or consequence is cheap and boring when thrust into the main stream of PVP. Pk lite as an entrance to Pk, however, is not a bad idea. The original argument was that it's for monarchs to have fun with on weekends with their followers etc. This however, never took hold, as those types don't tend to be the PVP type, whether it's PK or PKL. The problem with PKL is that it's not an entrance to pk, and it's not a practive pk. It is an all out main stream pk. How can it be fixed? Perhaps a time limit on how long you can go pkl? Perhaps restricted to mansion basements or designated small "practice" areas. There are many ideas but the fact is, PKL should be an entrance to pk, a practice pK, and hold true to it's name. PK Lite, not PKCheap. It should be this way, and not a total replacement to real pk.

The next issue, is of course, giving people an incentive to go PK. I saw a suggestion on this board discussing siege and territory holding in PK and PKL. This is good, as long as it's restricted to PK. As long as you give every pk benefit to PKL, PK is used either less or not at all.

Suggestion for a PK system (not all of these are my ideas):

Town sieging:

A monarchy can own a town by controlling a crystal in the center of town, or holding it for some length of time (how this is regulated would be anyones guess). Once a group of pks held this crystal, the entire allegiance would enjoy increased buy rates and perhaps stat bonuses (aka, Ayan = 105% buy rate +10 global melee D bonus. Shoushi = 100% Buy rate +5 Alchemy +5 Fletching) etc etc. Also, many more benefits could be added to owning or controlling a town on top of the looting of player's corpses which should definitely be a big part of PK. This is just one idea of course to give an *incentive* to go PK and not PKL.

Last but not least, is of course combat. Ahh, combat, something AC has managed to nearly perfect in many ways. Fast paced movement (running/jumping), animation breaking (being able to dodge while casting and break off melee attacks), and the dynamic systems involved in large scale combat. Unfortunately these things are starting to be thrown out of balance. Everytime someone complains about "balance" because they don't know how to do something properly with their character, others join in and demand certain changes to combat. IMO, the downfall of AC has been total and complete disregard for the original system and rules of combat and gameplay (ie gems, sellback etc). Some try to make points on the matter. For example: "In other games mages are the weak class" "in other games melees dont have magics!" "in other games etc etc".

Well, AC is fun because it's *not like* other games, and took a completely customisable route instead of adhering to the typical "42nd Level Dark Elf Warrior of the clan Blingblong" (with no magic of course). In some ways AC is more free form and true to the RPG equation than other MMORPGs and other RPGS in general. This is why certain things that have existed in AC are so important to the fun of the game, ie fast casting.

Fastcasting or animation breaking in general: Yes, a mage casts faster, but a melee doesn't sit there and take spells either, he can move and gauge combat as he/she sees fit. Imagine AC without animation breaking. It would be an entirely stat based game without any modicum of skill involved. Mage shoots war, but cant move, and melee runs in and can't dodge. In essence, it would become more like "typical" MMO games, but somehow the result of combat is no longer determined by fun and skill, but by stats and items alone. People who beg for a fix to fast cast don't understand the integral role it plays in AC and it's combat system, whether it's on purpose or not.

Melees: Melees in AC are not as powerful in *solo* PVP as in other games, because they have the distinct advantage of being able to chase down people who run away. Carebears sometimes can't fathom the idea of ganging someone, but a melee plays (or played) an integral role as a support character who did a lot of damage in gangs. Unfortunately this has no changed. The devs, by request of the people who complain instead of learning, decided to make melees equal or close to equal to mages in 1v1 combat, all in the name of "balance". The word "balance" is not understood by the average player of AC. Some think balance means equal in everything that is obvious or seen. An experienced player knows that balance means more. It means that melees are powerful b/c they can chase and mages cant, and it means that mages can take on multiple PKs but can't run away as easily or chase a single person. Balance, people, is "equal yet different". Once melees have the same 1v1 power as mages yet retain their chasing ability (which is what they should have) the combat dynamics get seriously skewed. Yes, perhaps melees having this solo power more typical, but definitely not what AC was designed for.

I urge people reading this to understand that constant changes to the embedded dynamics of AC won't make it more fun, and will make it less fun more than likely. AC is (or was) a unique and fast paced dynamicly free form game, but it's being turned into something else. If people want something else, go play lineage, EQ, SWG, *insert random clone MMORPG here*, as the changes to AC to reflect something it's not, are detrimental to the game and the players who enjoy the game.

Oblique
04-11-2004, 10:33 AM
This must be one of those foolish ideas...

Be cool. Don't flame.
I didn't bother to even read your idea because of what you said as the title.

wussy_woy
04-11-2004, 11:50 AM
I didn't read it either, but because it was too long and my attention span can't handle that. But I do agree with the topic. People pklite a few times a day for a few months and they think they're experts on PvP and have the most perfect ideas at how to improve it. They don't realize that Pklite has no resemblence to real full time PvP.

Jape
04-11-2004, 12:17 PM
PKLite works just fine on normal servers.

And if you want rough PvP, go DT.

Kurak
04-11-2004, 09:06 PM
Right Oblique, something slightly offended your virgin eyes so you decided it wasn't worth reading? Close mindedness like yours is what causes misunderstanding, not one person making a true statement, or giving an opinion.

And Jape, pkl doesn't work fine on white servers, trust me on that. It is way overpowered from what it should have been, and totally made pk irrelevant.

Jape
04-12-2004, 12:34 AM
Doesnt really matter if it made PK irrelevant on white servers. As i said, go DT if you want 'real' PvP.

Care Police
04-12-2004, 12:54 AM
I agree...PKLite is a horrible excuse for 'PvP'. Consequences need to be made b/c PKL's think they have true PvP skill (which most if not all do not). I'm not as on par on the incentive idea seeing as I still can't really see how it would work, it would be very hard to implement, even if it's just a simple idea due to loopholes and things of that nature. Good thoughts, though.

Kurak
04-12-2004, 07:22 AM
Except PVP existed for years on white servers as "PK" and there were many people that enjoyed it.

Also, the fact is that I know PVP and AC thoroughly, so it pains me to see what's happened to the game. I haven't played in months however, but even if PK was fixed, I still wouldn't play again because of all the combat changes and difficulties made for mages.

Jape
04-12-2004, 07:37 AM
>>because of all the combat changes and difficulties made for mages.

So, melees/archers can now compete in PvP and you dont like it?

Kurak
04-12-2004, 07:47 AM
More or less the response I expected.

No, melees have always been able to compete in PVP. If you read any of my post, you would have realised the point I made. Melees had many advantages; the main one being the ability to gang and chase. Melees were very strong and very powerful, but they were always somewhat of support characters, and people who couldn't use them in that fashion (and we're talking purely PVP here, they're pretty much equal or better than mages in PVM) demanded that they be equal in 1v1 dueling. This of course made melees overpowered, and any person who didn't really want skill, just has to get wards and an aegis and another friend to kill any mage within seconds. Before, they could do the same thing, but at least the mage had somewhat of a chance if he/she was skilled.

As for archers? Well, in the PK days of yore, one of the guys I just couldn't kill was a magic D specd archer. Template, and skill dodging wars was what killed me in pk, but over time, fewer and fewer people "got it" or understood how to play the game, and the devs made lots of radical changes to melee damage and nerfed some things for mages (like s2h 1) so the combat became very annoying. A mage is still a decent character, but almost pointless considering all of the old advantages that exist for melees as well as all of their new benefits.

Zer
04-12-2004, 09:41 AM
I see PKLite differently. Firstly, you have to remember, that the majority of players are not interested PvP. The lack of consequences for griefing and the amount of folks who role play a sociopath 24x7, meant most people ruled out going red.

PKLite allows people to fight each other and have some fun. I think it has done a good job of getting more people to try PvP then would have without it.

Zer

Kurak
04-12-2004, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by Zer
I see PKLite differently. Firstly, you have to remember, that the majority of players are not interested PvP. The lack of consequences for griefing and the amount of folks who role play a sociopath 24x7, meant most people ruled out going red.

PKLite allows people to fight each other and have some fun. I think it has done a good job of getting more people to try PvP then would have without it.

Zer

Right, if they're not interested in PVP, then why make a PVP designed entirely around them being afraid of dropping DIs? Look, if PKL stays in the game, which it will, I don't give a damn. What I am against is it replacing PK entirely, without any choice for those who liked PK.

First off, those that wanted it for a bit of fun (the monarchs etc) still don't even leave their mansion area, which means PK would work just fine for them in some respects. The problem is, instead of tweaking actual pk, and making some really neat aspects of it, they brought in something totally different, which basically said to all the actual PKs: "either PKL, or go to DT"

Well guess what, DT is fun, and I've played it a bit, but I prefer to play on the server I'm most familiar with, which is FF. If it's between PKL on FF, DT, or not playing at all, I choose not playing. Still, I would even play DT if they weren't messing with combat dynamics so much and making it entirely stat based.

kioskies
04-12-2004, 10:24 PM
I didn't read what you said, I saw a few mentions of pklite, and you probably have some good points.

But regardless, if you ragged on my manually-aimed bolt idea in anyway, I'll [ moderated ]. Remember that.

Kurak
04-12-2004, 11:32 PM
^ I did? I was against the war magic that couldn't be dodged lol.

ElronOfDarktide
04-13-2004, 05:53 PM
Concerning your INITIAL THREAD

" i've never heard so many misguided pvp ideas in my life"

Do you read many OTHER AC PVP MESSAGE BORDS???

This is a forum for proposing + disscussing ideas regarding "AC PVP"

Strange that THIS of all places would be "where you see the most misguided AC pvp ideas in your life"

Elron