Discuss the Expansion Pack Press Release here.

[Ibn]

Turbine Green Lights AC Expansion Pack (http://ac.turbinegames.com/index.php?page_id=229)

[Ibn]

Some things that I'd like to clarify first...

* These are NOT the only features of the expansion pack. These are simply the first two features that we are announcing. More information will be released in time.

* The screenshot published in the Gamespot exclusive is NOT from the expansion pack, or using the upgraded graphics. It's from the current live game.

[shobo-dt]

Ibn,

Your link is broken!



=)

[Jinnsman]

can't get to the website, looks like it got flattened. looks like you have created the slashdot effect ;)


edit: ahh just broken link, should be
http://ac.turbinegames.com/index.php?page_id=229

[Jape]

here you go:

http://ac.turbinegames.com/index.php?page_id=229

[Ibn]

Accidentally doubled the "http" in the link. Thanks for the heads-up, it's fixed now.

[Solan]

I suppose I should have seen this coming. What with PK being called a 'strong part of AC'. But, is making PK in-your-face, Ha-ha-wimp-you-don't-PK-suffer-the-consequences on NPK worlds really necessary?

[L_Superman]

First of all, your link has two "http" prefixes in front of it :p

But now to the feedback...

I hope the graphics upgrade is also going to raise the poly count -- if not of all objects, then at least of some important ones. Doubling the texture size will not solve the blocky/flat appearance of certain things such as player models and trees. (I do look forward to higher texture resolution on player models, though.)

Second, I hope that the land raid/control system will be centered on PvP combat so that it brings Darktide something to fight over again - a goal that's been missing ever since housing and vendor rebalancing were introduced.

[Yew Wan Sum]

Early 2005???

You had better do more than enhanced textures and higher polycounts if you are going to take THAT long. For cryin out loud, *I* could replace the graphics engine myself AND convert the artwork in that time. I might even be able to fix war and missle pathing too. And add allegiance tree exporting. And...

There had better be a lot more that you arent telling us, or there needs to be a good reason for taking so freaking long.

[shobo-dt]

I hope town control doesn't just involve owning a town for 4 seconds until you go to control another and lose the first one. So many games just involve running around "taking" towns for hours with no measurable result. Please increase the "woah" and "coooool" factor in PvP. There hasn't been anything that's left me with my jaw agape since tinkering was introduced.

[Greymane]

New Elder Game: An intricate and involved strategic resource and land control system that will allow players to compete for enhanced skills and town ownership. Through a new land-raid system, players will also be able to invade other allegiance’s territory and attempt to plunder the opposition’s resources, skills and abilities.

Please tell me that this is only on Darktide and that they won't be wasting development resources and time intended for the PvM servers on this.

If I wanted to play Shadowbane or DAOC, I would.

If this is the future of AC1, can anyone point me to a content-rich game that has absolutely no PvP.

-Grey
(Who is afraid he's going to regret all of the time and energy he put into AC1)

[Jape]

>>>I suppose I should have seen this coming. What with PK being called a 'strong part of AC'. But, is making PK in-your-face, Ha-ha-wimp-you-don't-PK-suffer-the-consequences on NPK worlds really necessary?

First: Thats just one of the features in expansion.

Second: you get PvM content in every single patch.

Third: if you dont enjoy it, it should not be added?

AC1 needs more game dynamics, and land raid system sounds pretty interesting IMO.

[ufhamlet]

Hopefully, the PK-driven conquest system is voluntary and preferably relegated to DT. I'd be thrilled to try it out, but reading all the moaning on the boards would be brutal.

I'm praying that the graphics upgrade isn't written in stone. The new users you're looking to attract are looking for NEW games, not rehashes of 6.5 year-old software (per your release date projection). With that much time, there's no excuse to not get the graphics at least semi-competitive with the market. I have a lot of faith in Scenario, but even Michaelangelo couldn't do much if you gave him just a paint roller and some finger paints. PLEASE have more vision than just putting a tiny band-aid on the gaping wound that will be Asheron's Call's market slide by the time the expansion goes hot.

[Myk]

>>>New Elder Game: An intricate and involved strategic resource and land control system that will allow players to compete for enhanced skills and town ownership. Through a new land-raid system, players will also be able to invade other allegiance’s territory and attempt to plunder the opposition’s resources, skills and abilities.

I hope this isnt a way to force people to PK. If it is then your not helping yourself at all.

[Solan]

Originally posted by Jape
>>>I suppose I should have seen this coming. What with PK being called a 'strong part of AC'. But, is making PK in-your-face, Ha-ha-wimp-you-don't-PK-suffer-the-consequences on NPK worlds really necessary?

First: Thats just one of the features in expansion.

Second: you get PvM content in every single patch.

Third: if you dont enjoy it, it should not be added?

AC1 needs more game dynamics, and land raid system sounds pretty interesting IMO.


If I am excluded from something an NPK could benefit from simply because I refuse to PK (it's a moral choice), then there is a problem and I will NOT be happy.

[Maxymyllyn]

I *hope* that the allegiance raiding is more of a DT config than anything else.

I wonder what else 'Elder Gameplay' entails. Tantalizing.

As usual, I won't be a part of the rush of people screaming about something that has not been seen or played upon. I will simply emphasize:

Thank you Turbine for making an expansion.

As far as it taking 'too long' - I hope it will be worth the wait.

[Rhysem]

Agreed with Myk and others.

If the Elder system forces people to PK even indirectly, I'll be movin' on.

How would it force them to PK? Say controlling something gives you a +15 skill bonus, stackable with everything. Well lessie, that's like a major but stacks. Given all the brouhaha over the "major nerf" you've had to go back on, you can pretty much assume that'd be viewed as "required".

Additionally, that sounds like a "screw little guilds" which should NOT be your plan. You've done enough of that with some of the huge quests that require large numbers of high levels to complete. When a monarchy only has 2 people past 80 in a group of 10-20 casual players, it can't do things like bobo's. It could even less defend a town.

[Tesuji Aji]

>>>New Elder Game: An intricate and involved strategic resource and land control system that will allow players to compete for enhanced skills and town ownership. Through a new land-raid system, players will also be able to invade other allegiance’s territory and attempt to plunder the opposition’s resources, skills and abilities.

----- Cut -----

AC1 needs more game dynamics, and land raid system sounds pretty interesting IMO.


And it is one of the reasons many of us chose NOT to play AC2.
I too hope this is restricted to Darktide. I have zero zip, nada intrest in PK, PL, or feeble attempts to make AC into DAOC.

[Maxymyllyn]

And it is one of the reasons many of us chose NOT to play AC2.

Very very true.

[malendur]

Well, I hope they clarify the 'Elder Game' asap...

I have absolutely no interest in PvP.

I would prefer to know now, rather in 10-12 months, if this is for DT only or if it will be forced onto other Worlds.

[zathros]

I'm worried about the resources being alliegence based. During the XP chain era, it seems there was one dominant chain, a few other ok chains, and the rest of the server. This is because a large number of people went wherever they could get the most plusses.

If the special skills go to the whole alliegence controlling an area, there's going to be one alliegence that controlls 75% of the server, and many people forced to join them or starve.

[Dom on TD]

Originally posted by Jape


First: Thats just one of the features in expansion.

Second: you get PvM content in every single patch.

Third: if you dont enjoy it, it should not be added?

AC1 needs more game dynamics, and land raid system sounds pretty interesting IMO.

First: That's one of 2 features that we were told about. The other, PKs will also be able to enjoy. So 50% of what they've told us about the expansion is worthless to anyone who doesn't PK. Guess that seems fair enough, as long as I get it for 1/2 price.

Second: PK has had more attention lately than PVM. I'm tired of seeing Turbine waste time trying to appease the PKs and have to fix it again later because it was a change and Darktide doesn't like to adapt. PK enhancements are a waste of valuable resources when you look at what they've done to try to improve it, then they had to work to take it all back.

"Third: if you dont enjoy it, it should not be added?" I want everyone to remember this guy the next time Turbine adds a new PvP enhancement and Darktide revolts again.

AC does NOT need game dynamics or content that will exclude 7 white servers. I can't think of a single reason why the Devs would think it does. I'm hoping Ibn has a sick sense of humor and this is a late April Fool's joke. If they had any other ideas in mind for the expansion, why aren't they listed? I'm sure everyone from Darktide is calling me a whiner, a carebear, or whatever the new insult for a white server player is, but if anyone with half a brain will think about this: What would Darktide do if they introduced new content that only non player killers could enjoy? They would riot, whine, curse Turbine, and threaten to cancel accounts like they do everytime they get something they don't like.

And here I was waiting anxiously for an expansion. Early 2005? This sounds too much like the new Star Wars movies. Wait forever and get something pretty but not much else. I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

[Madaster]

First, thanks for the expansion pack and all it entails.

I too am worried about "strategic land, resource, and ability control."

Jessica, you know the vast majority of gamers want nothing to do with pk. You've written about it extensively. Packaging it in a different way it is still pk. Most don't want it, nor do they want to participate in it.

PKL is nice, i.e. the no loss of items and ease of going into pk mode, but I think I'd be conservative in stating that 75% of your servers (excluding darktide) are made up of white dots that rarely if ever venture into the pk world. They don't want pk and don't really want to participate in it.

It is probably too far along to even get it changed, but this is going to result in many ticked off people. I don't see folks flocking in droves to AC2 where you are trying this dynamic now. There isn't demand for it. Please reconsider and take PK out of these special abilities, resources, etc.

Otherwise, I see us back at the same old huge monarchy groups getting the benefits (read in the past chains, monopolizing content, etc.) and small monarchies of friends getting screwed out of it.

Again, thanks for the expansion, please reconsider the strategic concepts in the announcement.

[DraconisUmbra]

Hmm unfortunately what little information they are giving us about this "Elder Game" thing sounds far too much like they intend to add content that makes AC a clone of other games that I don't play because I don't like those game dynamics. And I thought the expansion was going to keep me playing for years more... but if this type of content is what they are adding it looks like I'll have to quit after all. :( I hope they clarify this soon because if it's going to be pervasive then I guess I only have till "early 2005" to have fun in AC.

[Largon]

I highly doubt there will be any penalties for a monarchy who does not control a town. If for example, as the person above guessed, controlling a town gives you a stackable 15 points to a skill or whatever, and your monarchy does not wish to participate in the own a town for a bonus dynamics, your skills will still be as they are now. I highly doubt Turbine is looking to take anything away from the pure white players, they are simply seeking to give those who enjoy the red life something to fight over. Or pink, or whatever their goals may be.

Of course, everything that is being guessed at here is more than likely not what is coming in the expansion anyways. I will save my suppositions and feelings on what is coming until I have more information ..... though I won't mind throwing out what I would LIKE to see once in a while! :D

[Maxymyllyn]

It would be nice if some new features were discussed to quell the oncoming PK vs NPK posts that are going to hijack this thread hardcore.

Howabout some answers to the following:

New housing that doesn't cause lag issues?

Elder Gameplay information? Will the 126 'cap' be reviewed/revised and/or have improvements made to it?

Landmass addition?

New Monsters?

New Quests?

Will the content be 'locked out' if you haven't purchased the expansion the way DM was? Are there elements to the expansion that will be universal?

I am sure this information will be trickling in as time goes on, but perhaps a little more information on what's gonna come out will avoid this becoming a 'STFU and go Red/Pink/White/' whatever thread.
:D

[L_Superman]

What would Darktide do if they introduced new content that only non player killers could enjoy?

Welcome to our world. It happens every month.


Anyway, in response to a bunch of the other replies here...

I agree that the land control system would be best if it were in place only on an all-red server. Carebears don't want PvP, not even if it's just economic competition and not direct combat.

Give the white servers new emotes and house decorations that can't be used on Darktide, and then we'll be about even for the expansion. :p

[Ibn]

There will be several aspects of the elder game / land control system that do not involve PvP combat.

[Myk]

Ok explain, im so close to killing my accounts.

[Mercadia]

The brief info that's been posted on the Elder PK content leaves a bad taste in my mouth already. The fact that 'enhanced skills' are involved makes it worse.

In AO, a similar concept was tried with their Notum Wars expansion. People with guilds who PK'ed well enough to hold and defend the largest tower holdings got access to rather signifigant skill bonuses. Afterwards, the high level content that came out seemed to almost require that the players had these skill bonuses, making PK nearly compulsory. Because of this, many of the smaller guilds watched their membership plummet as people scrambled to gain membership into the largest PK guilds.

In DAoC, a similar concept was tried with their Elder content. There, the last 10 or so levels were tied to your 'realm rank,' which you had to PK for (with the exception of the cooperative server). If you wanted any of the stats or abilities that came with the elder content, you had to PK. Given the usefulness of those, PK was again nearly compulsory, even for the PvM players.

Anytime the bonuses for PK start affecting stats, skills, abilities, loot access, or just about anything that even has a slight use in PvM, a lot of PvM players are going to feel that PK has become necessary to gain them that next slight edge over mobs. And eventually, high level content gets designed with the assumption of min/max characters, great equipment, and nearly all the bonuses in the game, including the PK-related ones. It's not a step I want to see taken for AC1, and i'll openly admit that part of my reason is that i'm not part of the priviliged elite who was able to chain and/or macro my way to lvl 190+ or more.

I play AC1 instead of other MMOs because PK is, with the exception of some quests which i feel were poorly done, a trivial sideshow. When I want to go up against another player, i tend to do it in FPS games, RTS games, and as a general rule, games where there is little to no character advancement at all. My experiances in AO, DAoC, and some BattleTech MU*s have led me to conclude that PK in games with noticeable character advancement belongs primarily to the hardcore enthusiasts, and the casual gamers serve as little other than cannon fodder.

[Maxymyllyn]

.There will be several aspects of the elder game / land control system that do not involve PvP combat.

Thanks for the clarification IBN.

[Dom on TD]

Originally posted by Ibn
There will be several aspects of the elder game / land control system that do not involve PvP combat.

OK then, uhh sorry about my previous rant. Could you enlighten us a little at least? I'm already pulling my hair out in anticipation/frustration.

[StunnedGrowth]

Like everything turbine has done. They will give the npk worlds a ton of options vs the pk one. They wont force people to pk, historically this has never happened with the exception of a rare event. And even then, those were fun on npk worlds. It broke the norm, and gave something for people to fight for / over, and cracked the shell of what otherwise might be known as a treadmill.

This should be excellent, and just because one of the numerous features they will be releasing happens to be land controll doesnt mean its the end of the world for those that do not want to pk.

This has been something that has long been over due for Darktide, turbine knows it. They have tried to do things to spark things up, but nothing has worked. Finally, they are making the push to give people a reason to play darktide and they mentioned it.

So relax, there will be tons to do on npk worlds.

[Madaster]

That isn't clarification, that is admittance that the bulk of it revolves around PK. If it wasn't that way, he would have stated that most of it doesn't involve PK. Dang it, why do this and drive folks away?

The concern rightly expressed above is why those that don't like PK are complaining. These new stat, ability, whatever enhancements are going to be factored in to new content. If you don't have it, you don't compete on an equal basis. In other words, you are second class citizens.

I can only speak for myself, I don't want this, I don't like it. The rest of the players will have to voice their own opinions.

[Maxymyllyn]

That isn't clarification, that is admittance that the bulk of it revolves around PK.

I didn't interpret it that way but I see your point. IBN, can you confirm that the Expansion will have balanced additions for both PK and Non-PK?

[Havo]

Well at last count there are over 30 monarchies on SC. That does not count the dozens, if not hundreds, of smaller monarchies that never make themselves known. What are you going to do add 100 towns? Or are we just going to get to control some square in the desert with nothing it in leaving the towns for the large guilds?

This smells just like housing. Before the DM came out the line was “Everyone will have a choice of housing and there will be villas and mansions for those people who want to pay for one and cottages for people who just want a house!” Then after DM came out “Well we said that you would have the CHANCE to perhaps, if you have 4 accounts and macro a house buying bot or get very lucky, to buy a house. We know we are going to leave out 80%+ of the population but that is just the way it is. Oh we have a solution! Slums.”

[huan]

higher textures? That's all? Higher texture, not an increased poly count or updated directx feature? So in 2005 you are targetting your system to people with 5-6 year old equipment? Is that a really smart choice or is that just the laziest approach you could take?

So, you will have on the shelf in 2005 the following: (this is barring that people only look at the games box art)

City of Heroes, Lineage 2, Saga of Ryzom, Guild Wars, World of Warcraft, Matrix, Warhammer, Ultima X, Dragon Empires, Everquest 2, and Middle Earth Online (your own game...)

So, your plan to compete is to throw out an expansion with upgraded textures and what sounds like forced pk?!?

Smart move.

[EvilElvis]

Meh.

I was definitely hoping for much more than just a texture upgrade. Considering it's an expansion pack, I don't see raising the minimum system reqs somewhat as as issue. I was hoping for higher poply count landscapes, trees, some T&L, etc. It's not a bad extra, but it's not revving me up at all, and isn't exactly what I would call a main feature. My only guess is that the idea of alienating any more customers is seen as a Bad Thing for the longevity of the game.

And the land/resource control thing... I've been trying to think of ways this would work well, and I can't think of any that don't involve alot of pvp. And that's the problem. PvP is borked in this game to an incredible degree. I no longer have any interest in pvp in this game whatsoever, and I'm not really into any new pvp dynamics. I understand the want for a new "end game", but I think there are better ways to accomplish this without focusing on one of AC's biggest weaknesses. I'm willing to be proven wrong, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

The somewhat good news is they have plenty of time to fix pvp, if they choose to. And it defintely needs a major overhaul, in practically every facet.

Of course, if the loot doesn't get any better - particularly on dire mobs - I won't be buying the expansion anyways *hint hint*.

[Myk]

I nominate Ibn for the title of Spin Master General. He has more spin than a top.

[Orion]

It's not admitting that the majority will revolve around PK activity at all. It means that there will be an aspect of the land control system that ivolves PvP activity, but that activity is not restricted to PK activity. We're all very mindful that not everyone enjoys PK activity.

We're not about to shoot ourselves in the feet with an elder game based solely on PK activity. What we want to do is provide elder players with a new game dynamic that will be competitive, engaging and ever-changing.

Details will be released over time, remember this is just the initial announcement. We're not giving out all the intricate details of the expansion features yet.

[Cheapo-SC]

Turbine, please, why can't you just *ask* the playerbase what we would like to see in the expansion?

If I wanted to control towns and dungeons etc. I'd go play DAoC or Shadowbane. That is a limited market and something I disappointed is coming to AC.

If implemented correctly, it could work well. For example, an allegiance holds control of a town and gets a 5% bonus on sell rates. Or, a 2% bonus to XP if an allegiance has control of a dungeon.

But, if I have to PK with my allegiance to *get* that control, we're sunk. No one wants it to be that way except for a handful of people who play on Darktide.

I want things like everyone else does:

- Better character, land and dungeon models

- Better textures for characters, creatures who haven't had a facelift, armor, weapons and the landscape.

- More land to explore, a *lot* more land full of quests, story, items and a handful of new creatures.

- New skills that add pets, crowd control and other dynamics to the game.

- New abilities for melee players like charge-up attacks, chains, etc.

- A system that allows us to advance past level 126. For example, you are level 126, then all of you XP goes into a new 'level up pool' that could make you level 126^1, level 126^2. Skill credits earned with the new levels could be used to buy really cool stuff.

- Mounts.

- Swimming.

- Tons of new items and a revamp of the treasure system to allow for randomly generated rare items, unique items, etc.

No one has asked me for my opinion yet. You have to stop saying what the new features will be an instead *ask* what the general playerbase would like to see.

*by the way, I created an account here just to post this reply*

[Maxymyllyn]

1) It has neither been confirmed or denied that the expansion is PK centralized or NPK centralized.

Orion just indicated (in a round about way) that it's going to balanced and they're not about to cheese off the 'carebear' worlds that way.

Well it looks interesting and it sounds like it's going to have features for both the PK and NPK camp.

So how about some more info eh? Or at least a timeframe when more info will be made available? Or at least a timeframe for a timeframe when more info will be available? (repeat ad nauseum)

Seriously, Turbine, thanks for all the clarification on this. But we'd love to know one or two more features of the stuff. Personally, I am dying to know what you all decided to do with 'Elder Classes'....puh-lease?!?!? Just a teeny weeny piece of info? New Skills? :D

[MissMae]

Oh well. I hope the time taken is to make the game look better and not wasted on just putting in PK or other New things in the game.

There are a lot of people out there that were waiting to re-up for the new server and the expansion. Seperating the two events by so much time seems off to me, but what do I know? :)

I wish you all luck with the release of the new server next month. I hope it brings new people in, but I don't see how. If there is nothing new or even anything at all to advertise, people won't know. Next year when you bring on the expansion pack, new people that might want to come on, will be faced with the same problem. Joining a game that is old and having to play on servers that have already been messed up as far as the economy goes.

New server and expansion pack.. that was a selling point as far as I can see. Now there isn't anything really to sell about it.

Are you going to market at all now?

[Mercadia]

Originally posted by Cheapo-SC
Turbine, please, why can't you just *ask* the playerbase what we would like to see in the expansion?


Actually, I think they did, Cheapo, which is why I'm amazed PK-related land control was even considered for expansion material.

There was a poll of some sort done by...Jessica? Or maybe srand? on wCoD a while ago in regards to what players would want in an expansion, what they would be willing to pay for one, et. al. I'm amazed that a playerbase that populates seven (soon to be eight) nPK worlds and only one PK world would show enough intrest to warrent this whole land control idea.

[Cheapo-SC]

Turbine should post the results of the poll.

I *highly* doubt that land control was anywhere near the top of the 'we want' list.

[Maxymyllyn]

Look. They have said that the content will be balanced. Orion's post confirms that. I am guessing that they simply wanted to announce a new aspect to PK because PK (as evidenced in previous posts) has felt like, for a long time, they've been shafted over and over again.

Whether I agree with that or not is another story. :D

Be that as it may, I do not see this announcement as a reason to completely be disheartened, but I think that an overall enhancement that is lucrative to both PK and Non-PK beyond a graphics update everyone knew we were going to get would be appropriate as a counterbalance to announcing the new PK content - gives people the wrong idea.

[Greymane]

Originally posted by Orion
It's not admitting that the majority will revolve around PK activity at all. It means that there will be an aspect of the land control system that ivolves PvP activity, but that activity is not restricted to PK activity. We're all very mindful that not everyone enjoys PK activity.

We're not about to shoot ourselves in the feet with an elder game based solely on PK activity. What we want to do is provide elder players with a new game dynamic that will be competitive, engaging and ever-changing.

Details will be released over time, remember this is just the initial announcement. We're not giving out all the intricate details of the expansion features yet.

But I don't want to compete with other players, whether or not that "competition" involves killing. I don't want some parts of Dereth to be "ours" and other parts "theirs."

Bah! This does not bode will in my humble (and - most likely - irrelevant) opinion.

-Grey

[Dom on TD]

Originally posted by Orion
It's not admitting that the majority will revolve around PK activity at all. It means that there will be an aspect of the land control system that ivolves PvP activity, but that activity is not restricted to PK activity. We're all very mindful that not everyone enjoys PK activity.

We're not about to shoot ourselves in the feet with an elder game based solely on PK activity. What we want to do is provide elder players with a new game dynamic that will be competitive, engaging and ever-changing.

Details will be released over time, remember this is just the initial announcement. We're not giving out all the intricate details of the expansion features yet.

You aren't giving out ANY details yet. You're simply testing the waters to see what kind of wave this will make. Then you go back and say, "Oh wait, what we are gonna do is......" and when "early 2005" gets here, it will be late 2005, but then in real time it will probably be more like mid 2006 when you get it out, because you won't just tell us what you're doing and stick to your guns. If it's so great, why is it a secret?

[Jabbamagnus]

Originally posted by Ibn
Some things that I'd like to clarify first...

* These are NOT the only features of the expansion pack. These are simply the first two features that we are announcing. More information will be released in time.

* The screenshot published in the Gamespot exclusive is NOT from the expansion pack, or using the upgraded graphics. It's from the current live game.

Ibn - Keep the info flowing... I look forward to the new expansion.

However, I must also voice my concerns on how the expansion is going to compete in a graphic intensive world. With many new MMORPG's coming out how can AC1 compete with it's current graphics engine?

One question. Will the expansion cover all the current servers or will it only work with new servers?

[sublimaze]

I play on SC and pk(l) rather infrequently. I must say though, adding new pk dynamics to white worlds sounds fun. Even if I don't participate!

I truly feel most of the people here are "knee-jerk-whining". I am amazed people will whine whine when they don't have something, when they do have something, and when something is promised to them.

Please, it was stated quite clearly that PvP is not going to be the only dynamic. Until we find out otherwise, please stop whining.

[Oblique]

So much potential.

Turbine, in my humble opinion, is trying to add a new interesting dynamic to make ac more interesting. If you get bored of living a life without any risk to it and just showing off your armor. They are giving you a chance to put that uber armor to use.

Not only that. but the majority of other MMORPG's are NOT pvp based. This will attract new players.

EDITED: to be PK vs NPK free.

[EvilElvis]

I don't think any npk's want to keep pvp content out of the expansion, they just don't want it interfering/affecting their gameplay.

If they said they were putting in land/resource control that only affected red players, there would probably be very few negative comments, aside from "What else is there for us that don't pvp?"

To summarize:

land/resource control that only affects reds - good.

land/resource control what involves pvp and affects npk's - bad.

[Maxymyllyn]

You aren't giving out ANY details yet.

Very very true again. And because of this lack of details, the mention of new PK content has all the Non-PK people gnashing their teeth and fighting.

I have to believe that Orion and IBN enjoy watching these little feeding frenzies - like men standing over a pit of hungry dogs and dropping in a piece of meat, watching the dogs tear themselves apart over it.

I will warn to both however that if you let the dogs die or they turn on you, you may find that it's not all that funny anymore!

:p

[eelektrik]

Originally posted by Ibn
There will be several aspects of the elder game / land control system that do not involve PvP combat.

Best news ive heard all day.

[Ibn]

Folks, I can't stress this enough: You do NOT HAVE TO BE PK/L TO TAKE PART IN THE ELDER GAME.

I'm going to begin stripping the PK content vs. NPK content posts out of this thread as they are off-topic.

[Mageling]

Elder game? sure sounds good *IF* if doesn't hinge off of PvP. Ibn has stated that the elder content is not all PvP which is good, but I'm still not sure if the bonuses will go to more than the largest clan or 3 even if it's not all PvP. When you have a clan of 10 or so toon's (Clan Z of FF for instance) they probably have enough folks on to takeover a nubmer of towns at a time. The Clan I'm in numbers around 500 or so atm (both figures include rank mules) . We may not be able to ever control an area if they decide to make anything more than a half-hearted effort towards takes a spot..

An extra character slot, a nice little bonus that.

I guess we'll see how things turn out.

Ibn and the rest of you Devs keep this in mind:
(you seem to know this already but I wish to state it somewhere)
Not everyone enjoys the PvP experience, desires to get involved with it or have their game play affected by it. Or another way of putting it, If you add something 'Uber' that's PvP only that has no counterpart/equivlent for the 'white dots' you will lose customers. I have no issues with having PvP only content, just don't make it something that is FUNCTIONALLY required to compete.....


To those of you from DT or that are 'shutup whiney carebears', my opinion to NOT PvP or not wanting to have what has the potential to be some of the better content in-game be PvP is just as valid your desire to to want it PvP Only... And using login numbers from the worlds and saying 'half of yours are tradebots' is omitting the fact that right now one of the big fight draws on DT is over macro spots... How many of those are UCM'd?

[Dom on TD]

umm, nevermind. was tired and got on a bad rant. Hey Ibn, why can't I delete my own post? I found it offensive.:D

[Ibn]

Originally posted by Maxymyllyn
That isn't clarification, that is admittance that the bulk of it revolves around PK.

I didn't interpret it that way but I see your point. IBN, can you confirm that the Expansion will have balanced additions for both PK and Non-PK?

YES, confirmed.

[huan]

and 50% non-PvP? While 7 out of 8 servers aren't pk?

That's a winning choice.

"Folks, I can't stress this enough: You do NOT HAVE TO BE PK/L TO TAKE PART IN THE ELDER GAME."

While the other half of the equation is the Land-Raid system.

So, PKs can enjoy all aspects, and NPKs can enjoy the elder game (Alternate Advancement)? Really, did you think that this was a positive addition?

[Rauth]

OMG... they haven't released the name of the new expansion either... that's it! I'm cancelling! They're pandering to those players who like playing games with no names! Jeez.

I think we got a bit of time between now and projected release date, lets allow Turbine to share information and ideas as time progresses.

Content described in the press release sounds interesting. I felt it was made quite clear in the press release that the expansion is more than the two significant changes announced, considering that a story arc will be constructed around the expansion (as with ACDM).

I think an additional layer of meaning of player interaction for high level players is a bonus. It obviously includes PvP and that is good, not bad IMO. As stated already by Orion, it also includes non-PvP activity which makes it even more intriguing.

Thank you, Turbine, for the confirmation that an expansion is in the works and for a peek at the future of Dereth.

[sursun]

The land control dynamic could be made to be pk and npk at the same time. It could be a simple as a quest that if any member of your clan has completed the quest in the last week you get the benifit from controling the area.

On darktide the clans that had done the quest would try to stop other clans from being able to do it so that they could not get the benifit.

This would add a bonus for npk clan that are willing to do a little work every week or so and would give darktide somthing to fight over.

The only problem would be it would not help pk on the white worlds.

I am very confident that the expasion will make ac an even better game. I will not worry unless I here a lot more detail and it sounds bad then.

In fact I do not think they have given us enough info to even respond to it in a meaningfull way yet.

[DraconisUmbra]

You have promised us an expansion pack that will make AC a better experience both for long time and new players that you hope to draw in. The biggest problem is that you have given us far less information than we need and what little you have given us sounds like it will be exactly the kind of stuff that people play AC to get away from! How can we help but imagine the worst if all you're going to do is feed us some BS about an "Elder Game" that involves land and resource control in a way that you have yet to clearly identify?

[Ibn]

Originally posted by huan
and 50% non-PvP? While 7 out of 8 servers aren't pk?

That's a winning choice.

"Folks, I can't stress this enough: You do NOT HAVE TO BE PK/L TO TAKE PART IN THE ELDER GAME."

While the other half of the equation is the Land-Raid system.

So, PKs can enjoy all aspects, and NPKs can enjoy the elder game (Alternate Advancement)? Really, did you think that this was a positive addition?

Huan, please read more carefully. From the announcement:

· New Elder Game: An intricate and involved strategic resource and land control system that will allow players to compete for enhanced skills and town ownership. Through a new land-raid system, players will also be able to invade other allegiance’s territory and attempt to plunder the opposition’s resources, skills and abilities.

Let me say this again: None of this will require PK/L.

[Leibstandarte]

I'm looking forward to it. While I generally do not PK/PKL outside of my basement I think it will be a neat added feature to the game to let those that do PK/PKL have some sort of land control to fight over. It will be interesting to read more about it as time goes on. I have no doubt that there will be additional non-PK/PKL content added as well and I am not concerned in the least about having to go red or pink.

[Zero_Washu]

Originally posted by Ibn
Folks, I can't stress this enough: You do NOT HAVE TO BE PK/L TO TAKE PART IN THE ELDER GAME.


Fine, anwser this one.

Can I as a never ever will PK, have access to all the same rewards that this elder game will present to those who PK?

(Edit -- attacks stripped.)

[Mithan]

Looks interesting.

Some screenshots would of been nice (if anything is done of course) :)

[Greymane]

Ibn,

Can you confirm that as someone who doesn't want to be involved in any kind of PvP (not just PK) I will be able to go to any town and any region and on on almost any quest in the game after the expansion?

-Grey

[Maxymyllyn]

And whoever said, "All the nPK people are up in arms," really doesn't know what they're talking about.

I never said all, I indicated the ones posting on this thread.

The way that the information was presented in the press release was a bit confusing for everyone and open to wide interpretation. I warned that clarification on that information was needed because if it didn't happen, there would be a bunch of pk v npk people arguing back and forth. And I was right.

Bottom line is that people only go with what you tell them. And while I was able to discern that Turbine isn't going to cheese off 60+% of their customer base, the press release was clearly not in any way meant to explain the end-all be-all of the new features...

...which brings me to my ORIGINAL request.

Can we pretty please get more info on what's gonna be in the Expansion?

[zathros]

Will large monarchies have an advantage over smaller monarchies (e.g they will be able to control more land and thus get more stuff, or they will be able to raid more effectively)? If so, what's to prevent all power oriented monarchies from teaming up and taking control of the whole world? Will small monarchies have a chance at the new content without teaming up with others?

[Madaster]

Really I have no problem with strategic land and whatever control on darktide, you all chose your gameplay choice and that is what it involves, go for it.

My problem with a bonus is that over time is not going to be considered a bonus anymore but will be built into new gameplay as an expected buff a player will bring to the table. Look at past comments made about expected buffage of characters participating in high end content. They are expecting majors to be employed, and not just one or two, but usually a full suit. These buffs are going to have the same thing happen to them.

Even if we get assurances that it won't, the same thing is going to happen here that happened with chains. At first there will be resistance, and then eventually acceptance, and once again the large monarchies become the home, not because you want to be in it, but because of what they can offer you stat and skill wise.

My monarchy of 10 or so people have no hope of standing up to defend or wresting control of any resource from monarchies that number in the hundreds.

So once these bonuses become live, and content factors them in, what happens to those that can't participate in the land grabs? They either become content with less than all the gameplay available to them, or the small monarchy is doomed and if you can't beat them join them.

That's the issue. It has nothing to do with not wanting pk content, or wanting to see darktide not get anything, it has to do with killing small monarchies, it has to do with having to accept being part of a large monarchy just to stay even with the rest of the server, it has to do with having enough stress in my life not to take the game I love and make me stress out over defending or taking some patch of land, it has to do with not wanting to have to put up with pk and the trashtalking that goes with it.

Those are my reasons and I'm sure others that want nothing to do with pk have many more reasons. None of them have anything to do with denying darktide content. They have everything to do with changing their individual gameplay in a manner that they don't like.

[Ibn]

Originally posted by Zero_Washu
Fine, anwser this one.

Can I as a never ever will PK, have access to all the same rewards that this elder game will present to those who PK?

Yes. This has been in the design since day 1.

[Ageless Strangr]

Thanks for updating me on the new server, expansion pack, and patch all within 24 hours. Must have been a busy couple days for you, Ibn :)

The ideas mentioned for the expansion pack sound promising. I find it amazing that people react so harshly (one way or the other) to things when they don't know the entire story. Don't let all the negativity get you guys down!

6th character slot is also a very nice surprise!

[Moondancer]

I'm rather excited about the expansion and what they've told us thus far. No, I don't PK, but I have enough faith in Turbine to know they understand many of us do not want to PK, and will keep that in mind as they work on the expansion. In fact, that has been stated in this thread already.

It's too soon to say what is good or bad about this, 2005 is months away and I'd not expect Turbine to give out all the details right off. It really doesn't matter what Turbine says anyway, someone is going to complain about it no matter what.

Thanks Turbine! Personally I think you guys are doing a great job, and I look forward to more enjoyable time playing AC :)

[Maxymyllyn]

::whistling::

....so.....seen any new Skills lately?

::whistles some more:::

...so....any new landmasses floating about?

::seems to be eyeing his shoes::

...so...any new housing coming?

::goes back to whistling innocently::

Can you tell the SUSPENSE IS KILLING ME? :D

[huan]

Originally posted by Ibn
Huan, please read more carefully. From the announcement:

· New Elder Game: An intricate and involved strategic resource and land control system that will allow players to compete for enhanced skills and town ownership. Through a new land-raid system, players will also be able to invade other allegiance’s territory and attempt to plunder the opposition’s resources, skills and abilities.

Let me say this again: None of this will require PK/L.

Ibn, please learn how to write using basic composition skills. How do you plunder if you aren't pking? Do I need to define the word plunder for you? You should already know the answer to that, but in case you need it, here you go:

plun·der ( P ) Pronunciation Key (plndr)
v. plun·dered, plun·der·ing, plun·ders
v. tr.
To rob of goods by force, especially in time of war; pillage: plunder a village.
To seize wrongfully or by force; steal: plundered the supplies.

In what situation are we able to plunder items if not via pk? So you sunk yourself Ibn. You are now backing over your own words because you are afraid of the fallout of this whole situation. You are forcing PK and you know it. Don't cry or whine Ibn. Admit it. You don't know what people in AC want, you never had a clue.

Oh and incase you missed it, since you aren't a developer on AC here is what Orion said in regards to it:

"It means that there will be an aspect of the land control system that ivolves PvP activity, but that activity is not restricted to PK activity"

What on earth does this mean? Does it mean I have to go about my day trying to gather the most monster kills? Player versus Player is direct combat. Unless you think that we all want to run around looking to gather resources and stupid items, than I truly think you missed the point of what your players want.

So what is it Ibn. Is it No-PK and no PvP or is it infact PvP raid style?

[Ibn]

More information on the expansion pack, including additional details on already-announced features, will be coming in due time.

[Oblique]

...
with the new responses...

I get the feeling that I'm am going to be greatly disappointed again...

Is this going to be like the Tumerok vs Olthoi quest again? that carebears timed so they didn't have to compete with others...

If NPK's have the option to avoid this conflict Ibn. They've shown that they can and will, I don't think you can get them to compete.

Sigh...

The potential is just pouring down the drain...

[Ibn]

It is important to remember that there are forms of PvP play that do not involve PK or PK/L. If I am in a race with another player across Dereth, we are in competition, but not in combat.

Huan, more details will be released in time, including the details on how you can plunder resources -- that's resources, not necessarily items -- when not PK. :)

Please remember that since this is an expansion pack, we have the ability to engineer new dynamics that do not currently exist.

[Maxymyllyn]

...beyond this discussion thread, is there a place where we can review confirmed already announced new features (confirmed meaning they're gonna be in the expansion fer sure unless they blow up Dereth).

Thanks in advance.

[Edipus Goramus]

As Long as this new system will not involve me having to PK/L then I am willing to try it out. My question is will it be possible for smaller monarchys to benefit from it or will be squashed like bugs because we are not in the larger monarchies?

I personally enjoy a smaller monarchy because the group is much more closely knit, as do many of my companions in AC1. I hope it is not going to be biggest/most powerful wins. I think that would take alot away from the smaller monarchies and force us to move back in with the larger ones in order to be competitive in the game. Ibn can you address this?

As long as it is balanced, which in the past Turbine has been good at, I think this will work. By balanced I mean between PK and NPK and between large and small monarchies and between higher and lower level characters. As long as those plans are in place Im all for it!

[DraconisUmbra]

Ok, so no PK/L required but in order to recieve the benefits of this new system we will be required to compete with other people in some other way? I don't really like that either. Any kind of competition between players will inevitably favor the biggest allegiances and crush smaller allegiances. And what might town ownership entail exactly? Does that mean Allegiance A can take over say Cragstone and then refuse to allow entry to a member of Allegiance B? If that or anything like is the case then AC will no longer be a game that I and many others will want to play. If that's not how its going to at all then FILL US IN ALREADY FOR CHRIST'S SAKE! Don't go feeding us these tiny little tidbits and expect us to be satisfied. We need to know how we can expect AC to change.

And what resources are you talking about? New resources? I sure hope so because I like very much the way current resources are handled and any drastic changes are completely unnecessary imo. In fact the way resources are handled in AC is one of the most enjoyable and unique things about this game. Any significant changes would most likely result in making AC less fun and more like those other games that I ignore because their system of resource management sucks.

I smell betrayal and I truly hope it's just my olfactory senses being out of whack but I won't hold my breath.

Edit: Due time lol of course. I'll be waiting I guess, but you could have saved yourself a lot of trouble if you'd just included all the necessary and relevant details with the press release.

[Orion]

Oblique,

It's going to be competitive between players nothing like the dynamic that was present for the Tumerok vs. Olthoi.

[Oblique]

I'd like to know just how this will affect pvp.

I'd like something worth battling over on darktide...
Give us a sense of purpose... and ownership.

My question is
"How will this contribute to pvp, in a sense of ownership and purpose?"

[Yinchi]

What many people love about AC is not competition between clans (DT excluded), it is the formation of alliances of clan's for a common goal. I have a large monarchy but I know we would not want to fight (compete) with other clan's for control of a territory. We would rather band together against the evil forces that ravage our land.

Please do not make AC a game of "competition", this is not in the spirit of AC. We have stayed loyal to this game because of the many friends we have here. Give us something "evil" to fight against, a superior force but not "competition" for a town that could break apart clans and friendships. This is not the AC that I know and love :(

[Ibn]

It must also be pointed out that this is only one of two announced features of the expansion pack.

From the press release: In addition to these key features, there will be many new stories, monsters and hours of additional game play.

[DraconisUmbra]

Still more side stepping. These features were announced, why? Because they are trivial or inconsequential aspects of the upcoming expansion? I don't think so. They will drastically change AC and we deserve an explantion of how they will change it asap.

[LongwoodII]

Do you honestly think turbine would make something like raiding with bonuses purely PvP? Cmon now, they have more sense than that. For all those whining about PvP content being added to the expansion, grow up try it see what its like dont like it dont do it.

besides we dont even know if thats a 1/4 of the things its bringing

[Rocky McStone]

Ibn

No reason to cave in to people's demand just because some people can't wait to find out the information.

Stick with your regular release plans..

Thanks for giving us a heads up on the changes coming..


**Now - Nothing to see here - Get a move on and harrass someone else besides Ibn**

[DraconisUmbra]

No reason to take a half-assed approach to this either. I would gladly have waited until such a time as they were ready to release all the relevant details but they did not choose to do it that way. They gave us so little to go on that the only avenue they left open for discussion is one based on conjecture, hypothesizing and worrisome imagings. If they are being harassed they brought it on themselves by choosing to go about releasing the information this way.

[Yinchi]

No one is harrassing Ibn or anyone else. I don't see whines here.... what I see is concern. This is our game too, we have devoted months or years to it. We are concerned about changes that may affect us all.

We are only looking for reassurances that the nature of AC is not changing. We are all friends here, many clans are "sister" clans that have formed alliances. We do not want to complete with each other.

The BZ event is always remembered with fondness. Why? Because it gave us all a common goal, to band together to defeat a common enemy. Why would friends want to start competing against each other now? I would much rather see us band together to defeat another menace.

[Chrono]

Originally posted by Greymane
Please tell me that this is only on Darktide and that they won't be wasting development resources and time intended for the PvM servers on this.

If I wanted to play Shadowbane or DAOC, I would.

If this is the future of AC1, can anyone point me to a content-rich game that has absolutely no PvP.

-Grey
(Who is afraid he's going to regret all of the time and energy he put into AC1)

Get over it! I don't PK at all but I think this is a great addition. It's something that has needed to be addressed for a long, long time on ALL worlds.

Turbine please pay careful attention to Funcom's AO: Notum Wars expansion, they did basically the same thing and did it very well. I'm not saying to copy them, we wouldn't want that, but they do have a solid land control system you could take notes on :)

[Chrono]

Originally posted by Mercadia
In AO, a similar concept was tried with their Notum Wars expansion. People with guilds who PK'ed well enough to hold and defend the largest tower holdings got access to rather signifigant skill bonuses. Afterwards, the high level content that came out seemed to almost require that the players had these skill bonuses, making PK nearly compulsory.

Wrong, sorry. I lead a guild in AO for a long time, we never had towers (land control) and we were just fine, even in the very highest playfields of Shadowlands.

You are also not taking into account WHATSOEVER that turbine is a great deal better at balancing RPG game systems and skills than any other current developer on the market.

Originally posted by Ibn
There will be several aspects of the elder game / land control system that do not involve PvP combat.

Originally posted by Orion
It's not admitting that the majority will revolve around PK activity at all. It means that there will be an aspect of the land control system that ivolves PvP activity, but that activity is not restricted to PK activity. We're all very mindful that not everyone enjoys PK activity.

We're not about to shoot ourselves in the feet with an elder game based solely on PK activity. What we want to do is provide elder players with a new game dynamic that will be competitive, engaging and ever-changing.

Details will be released over time, remember this is just the initial announcement. We're not giving out all the intricate details of the expansion features yet.

This is even better, land control involving PvM. Talk about taking a good idea and making it even better.

I wish people would just stop whining about these additions (thats right, additions not changes) because they add to the overall depth of the game, they don't subtract from it.

[AFWriter]

Whew.

Without harping on the PK/PKL aspect ...

If there's competition for a recourse, or location or ability -- there are bound to be consequences.

Personally, the one I fear most is the crushing of small monarchies, as either a) larger ones will be necessary to 'control' an item or land mass or b) as one reward is seen as better or desirable, people flock to the single monarchy who controls that item/land.

I think the current housing situation is relevant here. What safeguards are being designed and developed to ensure that the 'casual' and non-powergamer are involved and have a chance at this content?

In addition, while the 'capture and control' concept sounds Ok on paper, what is to become of the solo players and smaller monarchies?

Hmmm ... I think the ideas may (or may not be) good, but too little information is given.

Concepts demand clarification. Releasing one without the other only results in misinformation, confusion and anger among the player base.

I think that's where we are now.

Ibn -- can you tie Jessica and Orion down with braided drudge guts until they spill everything involving the announced concepts? Or at develop an in-development FAQ much like the ideas in development we have for AC1 now?

I honestly think you actually said too much on this release -- because I fear you're not going to be able to answer our questions with any sort of clarity until further along in the programming and testing phases.

And until some of us get some more concrete answers -- we're going to be a bunch of cranky folks!

Take care -- be careful out there!

Later,

Don!

[DraconisUmbra]

Lol, funny you should mention "their" money Jinnsman seeing as how they get from, oh yeah us. And as far as them oweing us, they owe us everything. We pay for a service and we demand the best service that our money can buy. And I'll have to say they deliver, on the average at least :), very good service.

Yes they do listen to us, probably more than any other MMORPG producing company out there and I love em for it. That doesn't mean that I am going sit back and not say anything if I feel that they are doing something that I don't like. That's what these forums are for. True praise is also something we can use these forums for and it is an unfortunate rarity but that's life. If they make a mistake you better believe I am going to point it out, if they stumble I'll do my damndest to help get em back on their feet and I'll keep posting criticsm and praise alike for as long as they'll let me.

[Yinchi]

"Personally, the one I fear most is the crushing of small monarchies, as either a) larger ones will be necessary to 'control' an item or land mass or b) as one reward is seen as better or desirable, people flock to the single monarchy who controls that item/land."

This is one of my concerns also and I have large monarchy. I would not want people joining us just because of our strength.

Also, to claim resources, an item or a town could mean a lagfest.

[Chrono]

Originally posted by Cheapo-SC
- New skills that add pets, crowd control and other dynamics to the game.

No, no, no.

Pets, maybe.

Vrown control, no, no, no.

Roots, snares, and mezzes are the second worse idea in RPGS ever (second only to XP loss on death).

[Syrlacc]

Please give us some info on the graphics engine update, and tell us if the old 126-level cap will finally be removed. Also, will new servers be added when the expansion is released?

[Gouru]

Originally posted by Ibn
Yes. This has been in the design since day 1.

COOL! I get all the same rewards that the PK players gets as an NPK????

When do I get to start looting other people????

:D

[Corbyn_Chase]

I'm laying odds this new dynamic will be alot like it was in AC2, they are likely to create mines, or something similar, and maybe let us pick an of three orders, shadow, order, and neutral. Likely the group to mine the most, or kill the guardian of a mine will control the area.... just my guess.

[BillBraskey]

here's my thinking on town defending and similar ideas.

If you want to make a PK defend the fort/king of the hill type of mechanic, that is wonderful. it could be very fun. There should even be some cool rewards. Xp, globals, titles etc. I don't think there should be skill bonuses though. The idea of competing against players for improved character stats turns me off.

I agree with the poster that said we should have things that encourage people to work together, not compete.

If they can have town defending with rewards for PK, why can't they do that for PVM. I would be much more excited about that. It could also be used in new mechanics for quests and story development.

[MaddyFF]

Right now my only concern, until more clarification comes forth, is that the "Elder game" sounds liek it is going to revolve around some type of PK (Kingdon vs. Kingdom is PK in my book) element.

I don't mind PK when it has a sense of balance and players having to live with their actions, which I think AC lacks in both areas. I do mind it when I feel it is being forced on me if I wish to expand my "elder" character.

I'll wait to see what it will sound like beforre giving my final opinion.

[Rhysem]

Originally posted by Ibn
Huan, please read more carefully. From the announcement:

· New Elder Game: An intricate and involved strategic resource and land control system that will allow players to compete for enhanced skills and town ownership. Through a new land-raid system, players will also be able to invade other allegiance’s territory and attempt to plunder the opposition’s resources, skills and abilities.

Let me say this again: None of this will require PK/L.

Unfortunatly most simple implementations of this are going to heavily favor large guilds. Doing it so that it doesn't either means most of them get the benefit without the participation.

Bleah.

And furthermore

Bleah.


Tho I suppose you could base it on size of guild proportional to resources (in the generic sense) to maintain control. That'd screw large guilds hard (time to trim the non-playing fat that accumulates), and small guilds with a mansion (rank chain) extra-hard.

That could actually be sorta cool. A penalty for rank-wanking.

[Cysco_TD]

Hope I have not missed this anywhere else and am not duplicating a question.

Will the expansion also be available as a download released Globally?

A later release to Europe/rest of world would be horrible - at least with the last one there was no need for a new client CD etc., all you needed was a key which you could get friends in the US to obtain for you and did not have to wait the three months for the Euro release.

Cheers,

Cysco

[Autumna Oakford]

As Cysco_TD has said:

I have a minor question about expansion pack....

...will it hit Europe on the 12th May also or will we in Britain and the rest of Europe have to wait several weeks like last time ?

Or better still, will we have the option of purchasing online and downloading with CD key being sent to email address ?

[AC_Guy]

Question Ibn:

If you can answer or give a hint please...

Are the new planned Elder Skills going to replace advancement post 126th ?

i.e. Something like Hero Skills from AC2 ?

Also will there be Kingdom Specific Skills ?

[-Six-]

Please don't turn AC into AO:notum wars.

AO sucks.

[Zero_Washu]

Originally posted by Ibn
Yes. This has been in the design since day 1.


OK...

Anyone have a towel? :D

[Mr_Fred]

I've read all the dev responses to this and I will say this for the record. I think I speak for most people when I say this too:



Please, before everything is set in stone. Take a look at the other MMORPGs out on the market. See those games? Those are the games that your majority fan base ARENT playing. They are playing AC for one main reason: AC is unique from the other games.

I'm a very passive person in game. I hate this competition stuff. Competition isn't what pulls people together for one cause....it tears people apart, because of GREED.

Start thinking twice before making this game into a game like Shadowbane. This is not shadowbane. We aren't here to play ANY OTHER game other than AC. We aren't here for ganking. We aren't here for controlling places and restricting people from going to a town....we aren't here for anything else but AC. (I speak for the white servers only)

Some competition is neccessary...such as live events...getting from point A to point B to get a special item that really is more of a commemorative item than useful. That gives the competitave people something to compete for. Also...that's what darktide is for ;)

White servers are a completely different, living, breathing thing...that survives on cooperation. If you start implimenting this control an area for resources stuff....I think you'll be finding that a lot of the commradere that was once there...will be...*poof*....gone.





As you can see by the response...and it's evident that it's overwhelming...people like stuff that makes a community...not stuff that destroys it.


Turbine is run by it's fans?????


Proove it to us. :)

[MisatoX]

Thanks for the info IBN. Can't wait till you guys release some more detailed info on all this :)

[Mr_Fred]

The first 7 pages of this thread by people are what you call the:


"Sticker shock reaction"

[Ant]

I'm really excited about the expansion, the land control sounds awesome, graphics thing sounds "nice", story arc will be great, but...


Don't you think that could be doing a tad more with the graphics than just doubling the resolution? It's all well and good to support your ridiculously adament that they shouldnt ever have to upgrade their computers customers, but I don't kow of any 4 year old cards that couldn't support more poly's and maybe some bump mapping or some marginally better lighting effects?? You guys are literally supporting hardware that isn't even being supported by it's manufacturers anymore. Take a look at Everquest1's upcoming graphical expansion:

Environmental Effects
-- Better special effects for rain and snow


Sky
-- Realistic sky gradient
-- Advanced star rendering
-- Multiple cloud patches moving independently

Animation and Skinning: Advanced animations with animation blending and stretching of skin.
-- Hierarchical bone-based animation of models
-- Animated textures (both color map and bump map)
-- Animation mixing (each bone can perform a separate animation)
-- Animation blending (between successive animations, either additive or averaged)
-- Single-bone skinning supported for original assets

Bump Mapping
-- Standard bump (normal) mapping (zones and characters)

Lighting: Higher quality dynamic lighting supporting features such as flickering candles.
-- Normal maps for dynamic and static per-pixel lighting (diffuse and specular)
-- Use of glow and gloss maps for self-illuminating and specular intensity

Texturing
-- Tinting of skin layer
-- Single layer texturing for NPCs includes color map, bump/glow/gloss map
-- Two texture layers for old character art (for skin and clothes)
-- Color keying as required for transparency on old art assets
-- Detail texturing as required for Luclin terrain, etc.



I mean alot of this of course could not apply to AC1 given the engine differences, but you could be a little more creative than just texture resolution! This game looked blocky 5 years ago, it looks alot worse nowadays compared to competition, atleast up the poly count. Just my two cents.


PS. UPDATE THE TREE's :).

[Diavo]

Originally posted by Orion
It's not admitting that the majority will revolve around PK activity at all. It means that there will be an aspect of the land control system that ivolves PvP activity, but that activity is not restricted to PK activity. We're all very mindful that not everyone enjoys PK activity.

We're not about to shoot ourselves in the feet with an elder game based solely on PK activity. What we want to do is provide elder players with a new game dynamic that will be competitive, engaging and ever-changing.

Details will be released over time, remember this is just the initial announcement. We're not giving out all the intricate details of the expansion features yet.


Yes people please remember that this IS the initial Announcement. All they have done is answer the question of 'when is expansion coming out??' and told us 2 things that might be incorporated into it. all of these things that everyone else is saying is just pure conjecture. I love how this pile of skeptics (all the negative comments) assume that they know everything about the game.

Yew wan sum, if you think your that good then offer to come and do the work for free. Keep in mind that they are having to provide lots of content every patch to keep the whiners at bay.

Anyways Thank you Turbine for letting us know about this and i have complete faith in your ability dazzle the player base. I wonder if these forums are really a good idea since all the whiners come here thinking that their misconceptions matter.

[Lubo]

Thanks for the update IBN.

I'm glad for the thought of us PK'ers as well. Most of the content doesn't usually fit into PK so it makes it meaningless for us to quest for it and such.

When you have the white dots in this much of a hizzy, good things must be coming!

[Crafty]

sure hope that all content is availble to white chars or they will finaly lose my 3 accounts after 4+ years.

[MaddyFF]

thanks for the feedback Ibn and Orion, helps calrify some things in my mind. :)

[Aztek]

I shall wait patiently for the time when I can slay my enemies for a purpose instead of just the pure joy and satisfaction of opening their fresh corpse.

Thanks for heads up Ibn and Orion.

Aztek/Captain Dasha of darktide.

[Lubo]

White dots sound like Turbine just put in breastplate debuffing or something!

the pink dresses will still be there for you to have fashion shows!

Calm down until you hear the full details. Don't get all upset just because there's some PK content when usually there's none.

It'll be ok!

[Naomi]

Sounds.... stressful. I might as well just join a 10,000 person allegiance and let them control a town for me... This dynamic doesn't appeal to me at all.

But as long as each allegiance can only control ONE town, I'm happy. And as long as it doesn't affect me negatively, I don't mind if someone else gets some benefits from owning it. But if the 10-20k super-power allegiance can own half the island, that doesn't give smaller allegiances much of a chance.

I guess I'll just wait for more info to be posted on this :)


Thanks for the 6th character slot! :)

[Bruiserk]

Originally posted by Corbyn_Chase
I'm laying odds this new dynamic will be alot like it was in AC2, they are likely to create mines, or something similar, and maybe let us pick an of three orders, shadow, order, and neutral. Likely the group to mine the most, or kill the guardian of a mine will control the area.... just my guess.

I also have the feeling that it will be like what they have in AC2. If so, I guess I'll be retiring my account around the time the expansion is released.

[Zero_Washu]

Very good backpedaling Turbine.


Now, you confirmed that in no case will a non-pvp player have to participate to gain the same rewards.

Do you believe the "conflict" is enough to draw the pvp inclinded people to participate when they could just as easily obtain the same rewards without threat of their character dieing?

[Lubo]

I have to agree that I like the soloability (if that's a real word) of AC. I do like the turf wars we used to have before housing ruined that dynamic for PVP.

There are so many ways to play this game that the original developers had great vision in order to make it happen as well it did.

I also hope they don't change it to DAOC or AC 2 where you need more of a fellowship to play it.

I have faith that they'll take all of this to task when making the expansion. (don't let me down)

[TTF]

*crosses fingers* Here's hoping, that this 'balance' of pk/npk is 1/8th pk, 7/8ths npk content... pk'rs may whine the loudest ibn, but npk'rs are your bread & butter.

[hanyuning]

One of the great reasons so many of us play AC (and are SO passionate about it) is the possibilities of all types of play.

Anyone can play this game and get what they want out of it.

Someone can play 20 hours a day, another can play 2-3 hours per week/weekend. Yet another can PK if they want. This is one of the most diverse and open-ended games on the market. Everything is skill base, (no classes thank goodness) and you can modify your character over time to suit the ever changing environment.

These new loot changes are wonderful as well. I personally play a lot, but 90% of all the items that my characters are currently using I've been finding out hunting. This is great and I would love to see more of this.

This aspect allows those players w/o a lot of time to devote to the game to actually find stuff to use by themselves, allowing them to solo game or maybe be in a small monarchy with a few friends.

Thanks Turbine for such a great game! You know your player base very well and I have every bit of confidence that you will make all the right choices for this game ;-)

Much love,

[pudd]

there's also a group of players that have quit because things have become stagnant, but are watching the game's progress hoping that they'll be enticed into playing once more.


I think that time has come for me.

[Heideggar]

graphics is nice, as is an expansion, even though it's over a year away, but it's better than not getting one at all.

The only thing I can see that is a bit off is the new "Elder" whatever stuff you guys are planning on putting in. It sounds like a lot of the stuff that players have been discussing to bring life back into PvP and PK in general.

Why did you guys decided to wait roughly a year for this aspect? Is it too difficult to implement now? It'd be awesome to have that in the game for EVERYONE, not just those that choose to get the expansion pack. It should be a key aspect of your game, not for those with the money. If it's a reward for the dedicated people, then put it in outside the expansion pack.

The only thing about Marae Lassel that almost forced people into getting it, was the skill credit quest. I understand you guys should put something into the expansion pack to make it worth getting, but to almost say, "If you want to have fun in PvP (PK most likely), you have to buy the expansion pack." is kinda crappy.


Just keep that in mind please.

[Jet-eye-nite]

In the "elder system" is this only for the lvl 200 player ? I have been here since 11/01/99 and my top guy is a 98 . With the amount of xp needed to even reach 126 I think I might be lucky to get there by 2005 .
1. I would hope even though I am not +126 that you might have plans to up ALL limits presently IG
2. Graphics would be upscaled to reflect the current capablities of equipment available.
3. New classes
4. Updated paper doll
5. Abilities now found in many 3rd party software added to game ,such as ability to dual log
6. Several new attack stances or modes
7. Expanded tinkering abilities
8. Not to bring any of AC2 to AC1
9. New chat system
10. Speech

[Celestin]

As a note to something Ibn said, hours won't cut it. I need -WEEKS- of additional gameplay, as I already have several characters who, without UCM/ACM, have tallied up well over a month of ingame time already.

[Danilo Thann]

I for one can't wait for the expansion and anticipate great things from it. Will I use all of the new features/functions? Probably not but I will use and enjoy the parts I want to.

Great job Turbine.

/e Gets ready for his 5th year with AC

[pacesetter]

I have far more questions than answers from the articles. I will wait for more info that hopefully answers most if not all the questions. There is one thing that stands out formost in my mind.

I sincerely hope and pray that the "new elder game" is an aspect of play that you do not have to be involved in or can opt out of or is a seperate 'world' in and of itself (like darktide). If not, this could be a dream for the PKs but a total nightmare for those who have no interest for PK. I know Orion said "It means that there will be an aspect of the land control system that ivolves PvP activity, but that activity is not restricted to PK activity. We're all very mindful that not everyone enjoys PK activity." But that does not answer the question.


I will explain "dream and nightmare":

PK........
Be as devious as you like, spys in every allegiance, destroy an enemy and take his stuff, own and defend a town, PK everywhere and add strategy planning and execution to the scenario, plots between rivals to take over and share (fight over) a common enemies resources and assets, total billy the kid in the mafia effect, etc.

non-PK.....
having to live in a world of fear and aprehension that unscrupulous (sp) PKs will pillage and plunder all you worked for. Being forced into PK activity, an activity you are against in principle and moral being. Not enjoying the total game as it is without PK because you don't want to work hard for something only to have it stolen with no means of repercussion except to turn into "one of them" that you hate so much. A world of victim vs bullies without the ability to fight back without joining the dark side.

I am all for an expansion, and all for the elder game for those who want it but not at the expense of those who want nothing to do with it (it being the PK, emminent domain, terrorist syndrome). If I wanted to fight Al Capone and Machine Gun Kelly I would find a game suited to that. Nor do I want to build a char, skills, assets or resources that I could lose at any given time by someone or allegiance stronger than I being able to waltz in and take it away.

I am anxiously awaiting more info. I haven't seen the direct answer to this. Please do not delay in this issue as it is first and formost in the threads I have read and is first on my mind, too. It will be the deciding factor for me as to whether I buy and play the expansion pack.

[AriCat]

New Elder Game: An intricate and involved strategic resource and land control system that will allow players to compete for enhanced skills and town ownership. Through a new land-raid system, players will also be able to invade other allegiance’s territory and attempt to plunder the opposition’s resources, skills and abilities.

Oh my!! I'm glad you mentioned that one will not have to be PK or PKL to participate in this.

But, now I'm curious? Will there still be NPC towns, for those of us who don't want to depend on players for items? It sounds exciting, but I'm a little concerned for us players who do a lot of "lone" activities in game.

I can't wait to see more information that explains how this will work and how it will be merged into the landscape we have now (if it will be).

My most important concern, is that I will still be able to play my "solo" game, without being forced to take part in land grabs, etc. I love my NPC shopkeepers. I do not shop with players.. please tell me my NPC friends will still be there when I need something!!!

Just tell me me I won't have to participate in the parts I don't want. I'll feel better! :) :) Oh, and please, tell me that players won't be able to invade my cottage and steal my stuff.. or worse yet, steal my cottage! :(

:)

[n8bowa]

LoL Wow, IBN. You're good at keeping yourself very well controlled in the midst of all this nonsense you have to take. :)

[Cuttler]

New Elder Game: An intricate and involved strategic resource and land control system that will allow players to compete for enhanced skills and town ownership. Through a new land-raid system, players will also be able to invade other allegiance’s territory and attempt to plunder the opposition’s resources, skills and abilities.



I DONOT PK and I will NEVER accept the above in my game play. This type if interaction is the reason I did not like AC2 and at this point it sounds like you are trying to make AC into AC2. Don't even go there. The bomb that your sequel was should be an indication that that game play was not acceptable to your player base. Stop trying to CHANGE Asheron's Call into something it's not.

[summer]

Why Do you INSIST on Pushing your PK world on those who do not enjoy it?
Giving us a choice is what set's AC apart from other games...it is what makes AC enjoyable for all.

I seriously HOPE In all your excitement of your news release of the Expansion, that you meant to say that this part of the Expansion ...(town take over) ... will be in DT ONLY.

I have played AC for 4 years now, and have greatly enjoyed it... Please Dont Ruin it for me, and others. :(

[CaptMorgan]

Welp, I guess this game belongs to the NPKers. Sorry PKs. According to the NPKers, you don't get ANY exclusive content. It doesn't matter how much NPK content is released in the expansion, if one lick of it isn't enjoyable by your typical NPKer, it's the end of the game. The NPKers matter more cuz...uh, I think they are better people.

You PKers should be ashamed. Wanting stuff, and stuff like that. If only you were as important and mattered as much as a person as your typical NPKer.

[Yinchi]

DT is a competive game with cooperation inner clan.

Carebear is based not on competition but on cooperation. We look for other to quest with, to help us recover, to hunt with.

Elder introduces the aspect of competition into a game that relys on cooperation. :(

[Cuttler]

Originally posted by Ibn
Folks, I can't stress this enough: You do NOT HAVE TO BE PK/L TO TAKE PART IN THE ELDER GAME.

I'm going to begin stripping the PK content vs. NPK content posts out of this thread as they are off-topic.

Ibn, I don't want to see land controled areas in the game I play period. That is back to the haves vs the have-nots which you created with the xp change. When you offer something like that you are placing the people who do not want to play a particular way into the have-nots group becasue by the fact they don't belive in that type of game play. Every piece of content and every possible skill should be open to everyone no matter the way they chose to interact with fellow players. And that IS on topic!

[Lubo]

"Ibn, I don't want to see land controled areas in the game I play period"

OK sir! We'll take that out just for you!

BTW: We on DT don't like pretty dresses, lame quest items, and emotes, yet we've learned to be tolerant.

[Ibn]

Originally posted by Cuttler
I DONOT PK and I will NEVER accept the above in my game play.

That's cool. You won't have to PK to enjoy this content.

[Ibn]

Originally posted by summer
Why Do you INSIST on Pushing your PK world on those who do not enjoy it?

We're not pushing PK on anyone.

[silvurhawke]

That's cool. You won't have to PK to enjoy this content.

Will I have to compete? I don't play AC to compete. I avoid at all costs games where I am forced or even encouraged to compete. So, will I have to compete?

[summer]

Thankyou Ibn For your Reply
I only Hope the Best for our AC and The Turbine Crew :cool:

[_DOT_1_2_3_4_5_]

hmm new elder game ... I really hope this means I do not have to worry about being robbed and kicked out of any residence I buy... if I wanted DT I would play there... I am a 65 year old who loves this game because I can either fellow with my alligence or solo safely... not sure I would want an expansion that makes me pk or pkl { I have refused to do either so far and see no fun in harming other "real" people} ..

[Cuttler]

Originally posted by Ibn
That's cool. You won't have to PK to enjoy this content.

Maybe true Ibn but I don't wish to COMPETE with anyone either, and that is what you are telling me I'll have to do to get certain things.

[Khael]

Sounds very nice Ibn with something to fight for.

Only from DT point of view you removed all stuff worth fighting for many years ago with housing, and now you'll give us some new stuff to fight for, that will be way too late, and sounds like AC2.

Anyways, I'll keep my char on hold, while I play Darkfall, just in case it turns out ok.

[Yinchi]

No one wants anything taken from PK or DT. But, at the same time, those who are carebear wish to keep the system of cooperation not competitiveness. This will cause ill will among clans and friends against friends.

[Zeds]

as I have said before , they are trying to make AC into a lower graphics clone of AC2 and push PvP on those of us who DO NOT WANT IT

this is just a recipe for the demise of AC


I play AC as a cooperative game and compete with NOONE if that is what I desired , I would be playing lineageII beta ( I cancelled my beta accnt there as soon as I found out it was PvP)

[rschroe]

Sounds great. Glad to see that we will be able to do more than just own a mansion. My allegiance is ready to own a town. Bring on the Expansion.

[Kerbox]

I personally would like to see Swimming Ability added to the game so you couldn't just lay down and take a nap in the water anymore. Mounts would be nice too, along with that would go Animal Taming skill.

[Tormar]

Originally posted by Ibn
We're not pushing PK on anyone.


Sure does seem that way. PK is something that a (very vocal) minority of players enjoy, but I don't think any good will come of this.

Actually, whether it's PK or any other form of competiton, it will take away from the enjoyment of the game for the majority of players. Competing for resources and skills is not what has kept this game going nor what it needs. If I wanted to play the other stupid games out there where they do compete for territory and resources I would have already.

In the end you will have a few powerful monarchies controlling the resources and excluding the majority of players from this new fun content. It's GOT to be the STUPIDEST idea I have ever heard for changing the game.

[YoshotheGrand]

Sweet! I can't wait for the new expansion pack! Thank-you Turbine for finally showing initiative and drive to improve our game! In my personal opinion, I think landblock and town conquest is an interesting and good idea, as long as it doesn't become a grief-fest for the uber players only. Keep up the good work!

[dhin]

You know I disagree. Adding housing was the stupidest idea. It destroyed PVP and it ruined Darktide for ALL of the players there, not just a majority.

So let's do the right thing. Get rid of allegiance housing so that people have a reason to defend their towns again.

[L_Superman]

Actually, whether it's PK or any other form of competiton, it will take away from the enjoyment of the game

It's interesting that you would say something like this. I've seen many similar posts where people weep bitter tears because Turbine's just introduced high-level content, and they feel that Turbine is "forcing" competition upon them because they have to level to experience it.

If you "feel" that you're being forced into competition, that's your problem. You can refuse to participate in content that you don't like, the same way people have already been doing for the past four and a half years.

[Lissette_ff]

Read the article and got all excited until I read about the new "elder game" part. Now I am worried. I hate pk, that is why most other games hold no appeal for me, such as lineage II, etc. I hope they are going to leave the pk system alone (you still have a choice to be pk or not). But even if they do it is going to be annoying as heck to have foul mouthed (my main complaint again them) pk's raiding the mansion (or town) every chance they get.

I have been playing since Jan 2000. I have tried numerous other games and I stay with AC. Because I am not FORCED to pk or excluded because I choose not to participate in something which the other participants show no honor or sense of fairplay. and as for the post above saying so don't participate. I don't really have a choice on whether some pk's come to raid our town, mansion, whatever and spout off their smart mouths. That is the reason I only go to Ayan if I absolutely have to, marketplace also. Am I know going to have to stay out of towns to escape these idiots too?

signed, dubious

[kioskies]

Ibn, I appreciate all the bulljive you put up with on these boards. Some people are just... well, you're definitely going beyond the call IMO.

[kioskies]

[Double Post]

[L_Superman]

Lissette, if, as Ibn says, you don't have to PK in order to participate in the land ownership content, I seriously doubt there will be much PvP activity on white servers for it. People will most likely wage competition through the avenue that's provided for NPK players.

On NPK worlds it will probably be more of an economic competition than PvP combat competition. And if you've ever traded anything in game before, you already wage that kind of competition, so the economic aspect of your game is only being enhanced by this addition.

[Oblique]

I don't think this is PVP content. Nothing said has suggested it's for the PVP community or that it will add a new dynamic to pvp. It has only been suggested that it's for the NPK community... maybe this is because they are all up in arms thinking that it's pvp only and Ibn is trying to be reassuring. Just to make sure NPK's understand that turbine leave them out in the rain. But... still...

I think I made a mistake when I got excited thinking thinking that turbine was going to add a new dynamic to pvp. Why would they anyways? The main customer base is npk... and they would feel left out not being able to participate.

Ironic... this form of ownership has been asked for on the pvp boards almost since you had this forum open. Yet the content is being added for npk.

Don't get me wrong, NPK's should have good content. And should have about 90% of the expansion dedicated to it. I mean, I do the same quests they do, except I'm on Darktide.

But Please... add SOMETHING to do with land control for pvp only on Darktide... and something worthwhile. The very life of the server depends on it. I've seen so many well known DT'ers cancel their accounts recently because pvp on darktide has gotten dull. The only resources to fight over are macroing spots, nothing to "own" anymore, the lack of battles for lifestones and cities...

Of course, that all depends on what turbine's vision of Darktide is... If it's just a quazi Quake server... then by all means. Don't add meaning to it and let people get bored and move on.




*******One of the BEST quests you've ever done*******
I like that one quest back in the day, where only pk's could enter... To try to protect, or kill the last crystal. Some chose to protect it. I wasn't able to participate in defense because on Darktide, it was killed almost immediately, and the big defense took place on thistledown as I recall (A good show of spirit I might add). This quest made sense to allow only pk entrance... since you couldn't stop an npk from killing the crystal.

That was a good quest, assume that no one could resist killing the crystal in hopes to get that next pair of nexus like armor... but to do it everyone needed to be pvp to make it fair game.

[StcRaven]

if some1 alrdy said this just flame me :/

I was thinking about the land control on npk servers what if red dots could just have the fun of defending and conquering other landmasses but everyone in their allegiance gets the bonus even if they do not wish to compete. This will encourage pvp but not enforce however in my opinion you should have to compete or earn your reward by doing actually doing something.

[Greymane]

Just to repeat my question:

Ibn,

Can you confirm that as someone who doesn't want to be involved in any kind of PvP (not just PK) I will be able to go to any town and any region and on on almost any quest in the game after the expansion?

-Grey

[Oblique]

That's cool. You won't have to PK to enjoy this content. -ibn

there you go grey.

StcRaven:
That's what I was hoping...
town control that npk's can still share wealth in. but pk's can still fight for. And give npks a way to help...

That way, dt could still have their control for resource fights.
but somehow I don't think that's how it's going to work.

[Mithgul]

"Through a new land-raid system, players will also be able to invade other allegiance’s territory and attempt to plunder the opposition’s resources, skills and abilities."

Please say this isn't so?

[Kyayote]

Glad to see it. I hope it brings new blood to the game.
I would also hope that the newer Graphics will not effect gameplay as in lag ( We still have plenty of that tyvm).
Kya

[Romen]

I havent read the whole thread yet, but just one thing:

Please have Z-Buffer fixed! :) (i think it was zbuffer which causes the cutting out of particle effects(and other stuff) between the edges of textures and stuff...

[MIdnightFire7]

Graphics Upgrade: That will be a nice thing to see ingame.

New Elder Game: If its for DT or just of red players, that would be fine. I have nothing against PKers getting new content. The are players just like the rest of us and deserve it. I do not however dont want my limited time taken cause I have to fight off someone trying to mess with my or my clan members stuff. I play to enjoy the game. Not have to fight other players, just other creatures.

[Lunkker]

I just want to say for the record that the biggest disappointment in this announcement is that it will take nearly an entire year before the expansion is released. I've been playing AC for more than three years, and I was planning on sticking around until the expansion came out. But I'm not going to wait for another entire year, not when there are games like EQ2 already in the wings.

[CaptMorgan]

I was really thrown off by this whole OMGPK-phobia thing, as I just returned to AC recently after playing other mmos. It's rather unfortunate you feel so negatively and in some ways, incorrectly, about PvP - it can be fun and offer exciting challenges outside of the structured environment of PvM and I feel sorry for people who would rather not even explore it in the least bit. It is definately a shame however that at least in this game, it is soured by a large portion who are immature losers...oh well.

However, the point that the white servers are more about cooperation than competition is an excellent one in this otherwise deluge of constructiveless whines. I think it is time for Turbine to examine the prospect of altering updates between the PK and the non-PK servers. It is clear that this kind of land control would make much more sense to be PK based for the PK server, but should probably be altered to be a more cooperative action for the non-PK servers.

To say that the non-PK servers are not based on competition is silly though - at least at the "end game" - otherwise we wouldn't see all these losers UCMing so they can "stay ahead" in the utterly pointless carrot-on-stick exp "race".

I remember in the past it was stated that doing seperate codes on the servers was "impossible". Perhaps it was due to patching logistics and such - and thus, with Turbine in full control locally to the servers, this could be less an issue. If it wasn't about this, maybe it's about time to wake up years later to new possibilities in expanding the game. If the PvP system is one of the strengths AC has as an MMOG, perhaps it is something that needs to be taken in to consideration.

[purple]

you people are all jumping the gun.

ibn thank you for engaging something all of darktide wants: resources to fight over.

[zenoth]

I am glad that they are adding more content.

One year plus to add an expansion pack that is already 2 years

late is, i feel, to long to wait.

I would do 2 new expansions: 1 for graphics that are at or near

the best that is coming out, and the next expansion to add stuff

basic to ac2 or other like games. This would allow sooner use to

either graphics or great content. Many will not wait a year.

Pets monsters, or other such helpful automotons. People just

love pets.

Two-handed or dual wield weapons, are long over due and

wanted by almost everone.

Horses, capes, swimming, boats, would be a great addition.

Ring spell like abilities, for non-mages, balance that with grenade

like projectile rings for mages, or increase mage rings spells far

beyond non-mages.

OK, so item magic love had not been well received. Lets atlest

give it something. How about flamesprout, my spear will now do

fire dammage etc. It ok, put limits on it, castable only every 15

minutes, lasts only 15 minutes etc. Why should a spear guy,

have to carry 6 spears or more, do you drive 6 cars to work?

Of course not its too much work, not practical. Yes limit its abilty,

dont give allow fire rending to become frost rending, allow a fire

rending spear to do frost dammage but not with speccial power.



Special abilities to define classes, specialized skill should each

1, 2 , even more special abilities. These could be linked to quest

items or just timed or otherwise cool abilities.

New types of tinkering skills, more specific. Which would need

new types of loot, ie cherrywood, or silica...etc.



The pk issues should be addressed with regular updates, as

their needs cannot be predicted with an expansion, after all what

if they dont like them, do we uninstall the expansion????


Most of all i am glad to see new content, be nice to see it stay,

but we have had some hard work negated.



Get the expansion out, soon, break it into smaller parts, get

marketable stuff on shelves that atlest appears new or fresh.


I pk about 3x a year: that said, i would love to see new stuff for

pk and pkl. The pk arena as i see and hear is jsut about useless.

Pkers dont like it, or they would be there and not be cussing

around hmm well everwhere. Get them busy, get them new

stuff, get them somewhere besides towns my child plays in.



How about squelch pk, or squelch pkl, dont forget the unsquelch

for those few times a year i prepare and enjoy it!!!


Ok go have fun, after all what is good for one, might jsut be

good for 2 since that one is happy and not on your shoulders....!

[SvenDryden]

I'm not trying to insight more arguing here, but opinions are one thing, and non-constructive criticism is another =)

First off, I've had ideas like this for sometime, and I first saw them coming to fruition with the Allegiance Bindstone ideas. It seems an obvious follow through to have competition over these newly claimed towns or 'bindstones.' Also along with this, Turbine has stated that they are implementing 'special' vendor prices for different towns for certain wares. Perhaps along these lines, the town in which the said vendor presides will have a bonus to tinkering skills (and a few new or revamped skills yet to be mentioned). So what's a good way to offer these skills? Well, perhaps a slight skill bump to those present in the town, but the locals (aka allegiance members that have a bindstone there, or are "citizens") will have the real advantage. And we all know that no one in Dereth is truely a local, you have to claim a piece of territory as such. And likewise, through allegiances claiming towns as their home, they'll need to defend it from both monsters and usurpers alike. I know that this won't be PK, defend the bindstone at all cost (at least not on white servers). But if you want the bonus for your clan, perhaps you need to compete! ACK COMPETITION IN A GAME! Yes compete. If you don't want the bonus, don't compete. Afterall, it's a B-O-N-U-S. Now, sorry for the little bit of sarcasm, but just because it's implemented doesn't mean everyone can get/use it. I'm lvl 60, so no I can't go in the 80+ Matron Hive. Is that unfair? No, I just have to get to 80 to go in. I hardly play anymore, so does that make it unfair? No, I have a 60+ matron hive that I CAN go in. Is the XP the same? No, but if I had access to the same XP as a lvl 80, then I think they aren't giving the lvl 80 enough. Same goes here. Some people DO play alot more than I do, and they need content (and competition) to make it worth their while.

You're game won't be ruined if you can't compete in this, but those than can will be able to enjoy a new dynamic. And I'm sure Turbine is smart enough not to limit it to the top 3-5 Monarchies on the server, so that eventually there will only be a select few monarchies controlling everything. Most likely, a Monarchy can control only one point at a time (like the bindstones). And you won't need a massive PK battle to liberate the site. Perhaps it'll be numbers of people, perhaps a few quests. Maybe, kill the local legendary monster, be the town hero, the town votes your Monarchy in as the new "protectors."

There are so many ways for this to go. Lets all give it a chance, and stop thinking in terms of only PK / Non-PK. I think this dynamic for DarkTide would be amazing for them. I wish I had a character their to enjoy it =) And even though I don't really PK much, I think it can still be a wonderful dynamic for us non-pks through different means.

And yes remember, just like I can't blow down Gaerlan's Door with a lightning bolt, nor can I at level 60 enter a 100+ portal, some content is focused at certain things. It just means you can't use it yet, it doesn't mean you can't play the same game you've loved up to these additions.

My thoughts =)

-Sven:D :D :D

[Aeomer]

I noticed that this has not really been covered yet, but I thought that I might as well bring it up.

What about people who solo?

I try to solo everything I can. Granted, I belong to an alleigance to get buffed and to go on major quests, but generally I like to do things by my self.

I realize that I can't control land on my own, but don't you think that there are enough quests that require us to form groups to complete? (unless we wait untill we are twice the level that quest was intended for, and then what is the point?)

So could you add more solo-able quests for us in the expansion? Please?:rolleyes:

I don't know about everyone else, but I play the game to get cool stuff (sort of makes it sound pointless, huh:) ), and I have not interest in competition. That is why I haven't played multiplayer games like Age of Empires in a long time: I keep looking at it from the perspective of the person who gets the short end of the stick. I got tired of games where the entire point is to "kill the other player!", because, once I crush them utterly, then what?

So anyway, please make more solo quests, whether in the expansion or in our monthly updates to AC. (hint hint!)

[Lord-of-Light]

I agree with others that some of you are kinda jumping the gun on this a bit.

For one thing, I could in theory envision an identical set of new game mechanics/ dynamics that could by their very nature have a bundle of anticipated results/effects on non-PK servers, and a somewhat different bundle of results/effects on a non-PK server.

Although I'm not sure that I would be smart enough to design them, I think others would a lot more game design could.

Let's take an example. "Town ownership". In my mind, one of the only ways to achieve this in a meaningful manner would be to give the owner allegiance at least some control over the NPC vendors in a town, such as the sell-buyback rates for items, perhaps the ability to give its members a purchase discount and a sale premium at least within certain set parameters (but with the overall controller perhaos being the maintenance cost for that town, i.e., you want the NPC vendors to be profitable -- make the alleg money -- rather than having to subsidize them via taxes), and/or perhaps the ability to do business only with alleg members (but what alleg in their right mind would select this option on a 'white' server?). In addition, this same set of mechanics might also give the alleg owner the ability to 'specialize' in a particular type of item (such as a particular type of armor or weap)...either as a single new additional add-on category of item or by 'directing' the vendor to retain that certain item category longer in terms of its inventory rollover (by value or type or whatever). By comparison, on DT "profits" (and buy/sell rates) might in relative terms be altogether unimportant, as would presumably item specialization as well, versus denying all other guilds the ability to buy or sell there. Same basic dynamics/choice of options....with an entirely different result.

And "change of town ownership" dynamics? Not sure how this would work on either class of server...(or how it works in AC2)...but one way would be to have the periodic maintenance payments include "special items" that are very rare (but tradable)...wherein alleg members not only have to cooperate between themselves to get them, but also may have to interact/cooperate with other allegs to get them.

A key issue for DT might be whether any one guild/alleg could prospectively own more than one town (not as much an issue for the non-PK servers, especially with the introduction of bindstones), and, if so, under what circumstances....or the Devs could choose this to be a point where DT and the other servers deviate in one or more respects...such that cooperative activity is actively fostered on them, while on DT, guilds can 'capture' other guild's towns (as distinguished from being able to 'own' more than one town), effectively denying them access to NPC vendor resources.

I don't know. It just seems to me that there are a lot of possibilties here, and while I recognize that almost all of us are often pretty much resistant to change, I think we ought to wait for at least a few more details before passing judgment...especially since our new owner-Devs have proved to have more than a casual interest in our feedback so far...and since we apparently have some 9 months for those concepts to be fleshed out, shared with us, and reacted to, all in advance of actual release.

Yet here the sky is falling for some of you the first day we even get a hint of their plans for the Xpack...

[gaandar]

Will everyone need to purchase the expansion, or will it work side-by-side with the current AC/AC:DM?

[Valajik]

(Wow this is a rabid thread.)

But I would like to ask a question for the Devs...

How would this proposed 'Elder Game' affect people like myself who are not apart of an alleigance, or affect very small alleigances with only a few active players?

My only fear is that this will impose conflict and competition upon all of the players. The NPK servers have a very different feel to Darktide, and not because of PK. The spirit of competition and conflict is very much alive on Darktide. Conversely, the NPK servers have a feeling of cooperation. An Elder game where the primary focus is conflict and competition, I fear, might have a negative impact on the atmosphere of the servers. But that is a premature prediction as I don't have any information of what exactly this Elder Game would be like. (I am anxious to see what you will think up.)

I believe that the best competition between players is competition that the players create themselves, a la the Blood vs the World competition on Darktide...

Thanks Devs for the announcement of the Expansion Pack and for your time!

[Shultz]

NEWS FLASH!

{newsjingle}dut-dut-duut-dut-du-duut-du-du-duu-du-duu-du-duu-duu-duuu-duut!{/newsjingle}


Why not put this feature ONLY on another, new, continent?


Couldn't that feature only be operable on a new continent OFF of Dereth's Map?

Developers, after all, could "tile" maps together so there can be a new continent (maybe Haebrous, Dericosteum, Falatacotia, or even the Filinuvekta landmass) as well as oceans spanning between them since they would have to be far from Dereth.



So if the town conquering and ownership feature isn't going to be what a lot of players will like, that feature could still be in the game, but it would be better if that only worked on a new, foreign, continent. Players that don't like the coming feature wouldn't have to visit that continent if they didn't want to- they'd be happy in Dereth and other continents that don't have this feature.

If this was in Dereth after all, however, that would turn a lot of players off, so putting this feature only on a new continent would be a good idea, don't you agree?

[Maxymyllyn]

It amazes me that when people hear 'compete' they say 'I don't want to compete!'

Do you have a cottage, villa or mansion? Then you've competed.

Have you ever gone on Bobo, G-Man or the Asheron's Undies quests? Then you competed.

Have you ever searched for a Hoary Mattekar Robe or Ulgrims Scroll? Then you competed.

Whether or not it's direct conflict or not remains to be determined - we know it has nothing to do with PK (as it's been exhaustively said here).

Bottom line is that a little healthy competition is not all that bad. The only thing I would say is that if I choose to NOT compete, if that locks me out of content then I say that kinda sucks. I also agree that solo'ers shouldn't be pushed out of this 'Elder Game' config if they don't wanna play with an Allegiance...

But as many others have said - Everyone jumped the gun here. IBN and Orion were quick to make the changes necessary to clarify the vagueness within the press release and clear up misconceptions. I look forward to seeing what the future brings.

[Galan_Nightfall]

It could be as simple as giving the allegence a choice to compete or not. If you choose not to you can not be invaded and so forth.

[silvurhawke]

Do you have a cottage, villa or mansion? Then you've competed.

Interestingly I found this to be torture and the worst dynamic AC has ever added to the game. I despised the fact that we were forced to compete with each other for this resource. It was the most unfun aspect AC has ever had.

The other stuff you mention is NOT PvP competition in any way.

[satrinous]

first off im not major in to pvp but i do love the idea of ading this feature a lot of people are complaining but i dont understand why, i mean no one is getting anything taken away from you i mean already ive seen people saying ' if this is the future of AC1, then point me to a absolutely pvp free game ' i mean get real this is an potion there adding if you dot like it i say you dont have to take part in it ( by not compeating for tows or whatever )
i think its great ang gives a good qoal for pvp again

[Yinchi]

One thing that has not been discussed here ....... The Press Release itself and it's impact on people wanting a new game.

The Press release talks about the dynamic of competition, this only exists at this time on DT and gives the impression that this is the type of game that AC offers, this could influence the type of player who buys AC and who will walk away.

If I had seen this press release as a prospective buyer, I would certainly have walked away, this is not the kind of game I am looking for.

I hope Turbine gives more information quickly on the type of game that AC is now, a game of cooperation for a common goal, defeat the invaders of our land, otherwise we will lose potential players/buyers.

[Greymane]

Originally posted by Yinchi
"I compete all damn day long at work. When I fire up AC for some relax time the last thing I want is PvP competition whether it involves PK or not"

Amen, I think this is why AC attracts many older players, we can come here to relax, be with friends and enjoy a cooperative environment with other guilds.

Exactly!

[XviiX]

Originally posted by Ibn
It must also be pointed out that this is only one of two announced features of the expansion pack.

From the press release: In addition to these key features, there will be many new stories, monsters and hours of additional game play.

Ibn dont loose faith, I can read, and there are a few others here that can too, I caught your second reply, I see there is no pvp req on the white server,
however
I agree with that one guy, how is someone going to compete on DT with 43223423 ex blood 150+ chars, I cant run as fast as they can :P

I am sure you guys have scenarios and have thought of this though

[AzulDrakkon]

A. So much complaining? why? he said you won't have to be PK to enjoy the new system, but the point is its an expansion, you're focusing way too much on theone aspect, and the game is a year away it could easily be thrown out the window...(i.e: Blizzard announcing that Diablo II would have 18 characters if I remember correctly, that was one of the first press releases, then it was 9 I believe then 6, then 5 :P) point is, things change...do you want to play AC exactly like before for 4 more years? probably not.

B. YOU NEED AN earlier release date...you're seriously going to kill it if you throw it in early 2005, it'd be like how Neverwinter Nights trumps Icewind Dale II, hype piece of **** game vs. an actual game.
You'll have to get a leg up on all three of these giant hype machines :D&DO, MEO, WOW and god forbid that FFXI and EQ still have subscribers...you might be alright if 2 of the 3 make massive flops like MMORPGs are known to do, but seeing that Blizzards hype is usually backed up, I don't see it happening. Hopefully you can give us poor AC players some of the benefits of the profit you make off MEO lol.

[summer]

As I read The News this morning...I see it is ask of us who love our game and have great interest in it...

An Interview with Mirin of Turbine
3. As part of the moving force behind keeping the players informed before changes, asking for feedback, etc, have you been satisfied with the process and results? Or do you have other plans not yet in place?
We recently started using the 3-step notification program in AC:DM with the March event. Overall, I've been very happy with the early results, and I think that even in this short time we've proven that we are very willing to incorporate feedback from our players into our design decisions. However, this is going to be a learning process for us over the next few months, so if we find that we need to modify our process we'll certainly do so.


This worked extremely well in bringing players into the development process early on, so there were no surprises when we came to ship each monthly event.

I strongly believe that having a more collaborative relationship with our players will definitely help us deliver the type of gameplay experience that our players want.

My Feedback to Turbine > As I stated Earlier in this discussion..I LOVE this game
And HOPING the best for the future.

As I read the short introductoin of what was to come in the Future AC release...it bothered me and many of us.


New Elder Game: An intricate and involved strategic resource and land control system that will allow players to compete for enhanced skills and town ownership. Through a new land-raid system, players will also be able to invade other allegiance's territory and attempt to plunder the opposition's resources, skills and abilities.

The part about -> Through a new land-raid system, players will also be able to invade other allegiance's territory and attempt to plunder the opposition's resources, skills and abilities.

There are some words there that are troubling us...Words like...
land-raid system, invade other allegiance's territory , attempt to plunder the opposition's resources, skills and abilities.

being the peaceful person I am ..What if I DON'T wanna be .. raided, invaded... plundered ?
Do we have a joice? :(

[AC_Guy]

Well Since no one has asked...

At this time is it know if the NEW client will break the fuctionallity of DECAL and 3rd Party Aps ?

And will Turbine be providing any support to DECAL Devs if Indeed its is broken beyond there means to adapt to the new client ?

[Monitronic]

It means that there will be an ASPECT of the land control system THAT ivolves PvP activity, but THAT ACTIVITY is not restricted to PK activity.



Think about this comment guyz,is this a very very confusing oxymoron or what?

[Ibn]

Originally posted by Greymane
Can you confirm that as someone who doesn't want to be involved in any kind of PvP (not just PK) I will be able to go to any town and any region and on on almost any quest in the game after the expansion?

The balance of PK content to NPK content in the game will be almost the same, if not exactly the same, as it is today.

[Ibn]

Originally posted by summer
being the peaceful person I am ..What if I DON'T wanna be .. raided, invaded... plundered ?
Do we have a joice? :(

Yes, of course, we will not force PvP play onto anyone who does not want to participate.

[DraconisUmbra]

But you will introduce benefits for PvP play that will not accrue to those who don't want to participate in it?

[Frieze]

When it comes to graphics: Please, update character models, and increase polys. AC doesnt have to look amazing, but the character models are really, really bad. :(

Thank goodness you are putting in a competitive game dynamic that is not all PvP. With the new housing timers lost the only NPK competition I had (nothing like the adrenalin rush of running to an open villa).

[Lord-of-Light]

One of the earlier posters mad a pretty good point...

Presumably the upcoming Xpack will work pretty much like ACDM did: while some of the new content may well be evident on the existing mainland and/or some or all of the existing islands (like the housing and the ML portals), people who don't purchase the new Xpack won't be able to use or interact with most (if any) of that new content.

This in turn strongly implies that the "elder game"will (at least in much part) more than likely be taking place on an entirely new landmass (again, like ML in ACDM)....and that the towns that can be controlled will be there, and that the land-raiding/resource control stuff will be there as well.

If this is true, if you don't want to participate in that new content, you can either (i) just not even buy the Xpack or (ii) just not go to that new landmass. Problem solved.

If, on the other hand, you don't like the notion of there being content that you don't like/want to participate in, even though you have two ready means available to you to avoid doing so (although you will, of course, miss out on the updated graphics look if you choose not to buy the Xpack), I'd suggest that the problem may lie more in you than it does in the Devs...since it has long been fairly obvious that almost nothing they can do will please everyone.

I'm not one of those people who expect to be able to do everything in the game without having to do something to be able to do it. Certain content in the game is pretty mage-specific/friendly and not so for melees (or vice versa)...and if I want to tackle that content, I either have to have an advanced enough mage to take that content on, or have one or more such mages accompanying me (or vice versa). I have, and never have had, any problem with that.

The suggested prospects here are much the same. At the same time, there isn't any suggestion or implication that all of the new "elder" content will be wholly oriented to these new dynamics, and, as or more importantly, there is no reason to believe that the live team will be devoting all or even most of their future efforts to Xpack-based content any more than they did so in the case of ACDM...and, as I best recall, the relative percentage of ensuing ACDM only-enabled new 'monthly patch'-related content was relatively modest in comparison to the content that was available to everyone whether they had ACDM or not.

Keep in mind that the Xpack is presumably/no doubt intended to appeal to a considerably broader audience than just the present subscriber base. Everyone and his brother have gone to great lengths to point out that the modest graphics upgrade will not draw any new players to the game. And there is no real reason to think that a mere continuation/amolification of the existing gameplay dynamics would ever serve to draw those new players -- at least in any significant numbers -- either. If some (even a sizable chunk) of the Xpack content is centered around new dynamics to dtaw the interest of other game enthusiasts to AC, I can live with that -- at least if I'm not forced to participate in those new dynamics -- because a new infusion of players is important to the continued viability of the AC community.

[cougarclaws]

If I don't give feedback as to my feelings within the new possibilities for the game, then how will the developers know what I would like to see?. I don't need answers to questions from the players as to what could be, or even their take on things. This is my way of getting my input heard. I am an avid player of the game, and many things have already been ruined without taking the implications of the changes into account. My point about greedy players should be addressed even now. The devaluation of SIKS, should be looked into (why bother having SIKS if the monsters drop lev 7 spells, and the chests give up mostly level 7 spells). I love the game, and I enjoy many of the changes, but I don't want to be a victim of another bad attempt at deciding what it is I enjoy about the game and tweeking it. I like the upgraded graphics, but then after AC2, I am reluctant to agree it will have no impact on gameplay, as in AC2 (which was broken more than it worked) the improved graphics all but destroyed gameply, and caused severe lag in high graphics areas. Also it required people to buy special graphics cards to work properly, a dangerous thing to allow any company, as this could well promote partnerships with certain card manufacturing companies. Please consider these things. I would also like consideration for the fact that many important questions have gone unanswered. (third party programs can be really cool!!!).

[Truth Seeker]

I have to agree with a lot of what others have already said.


You say that if we don't want to PvP then we don't have to....but by doing so we will be losing out....thereby effectively forcing us to engage in PvP activity.

I don't play this game to fight against others be it PK, PKL or even who can run from A to B the fastest. In some instances this is accepted (house buying) but to expand that to towns is personally a step too far.

AC is primarily a game of us versus the game...you are changing that and its something that should never have even been considered.

From what has been mentioned you are going to destroy small guilds and create bad feeling between every other player in this game.

You praise yourselves in interviews about implementing a 3 stage policy and listening to the fans by telling us what you plan to do BEFORE you do it. Well start doing that with the expansion pack as well or I can see a lot of the more calm relaxed players that play for the social side as much as anything else suddenly rising up and joining the "I quit" club.

[Razel]

New Elder Game: An intricate and involved strategic resource and land control system that will allow players to compete for enhanced skills and town ownership. Through a new land-raid system, players will also be able to invade other allegiance’s territory and attempt to plunder the opposition’s resources, skills and abilities.


Wow thats origional, where did you guys get that idea from perhaps this game : http://www.guildwars.com which has been in development for over a year, or could it be this game : http://www.lineage2.com or was it AO or Shadowbane, nevertheless im sure you thought of it first ;)

The huge difference in these games verses ac 1 is their graphics engines, it shouldn't hurt your eyes *squinting with horror* to log into ac pretending to not notice the graphics.

*note* the first one wont cost you a monthly subscription to play, which one you think i will play heh

[Dragonsoul]

Originally posted by Orion
We're all very mindful that not everyone enjoys PK activity.


Just curious. Would it be an accurate statement to say that the MAJORITY of players DO NOT enjoy PK activity? It IS accurate for me.

[RaideDuku]

I'm glad for the changes. Means I don't have to come back to AC. I was really hoping the expansion would rekindle my intrest, but with this land controlling thing will make AC into something it is not.

I'd rather kick back and relax in town. talk to folk. All this land controlling stuff is going to do is kill small monarchies, increase l33tism (I can see it now. "WTF are you doing in our town, n00b!? Get the hell out! LoL WTFPWNDOMFG!!!!!1111!!!1), and alienate old players. But hey, maybe that's what you're shooting for. Maybe you want all your old players to leave and get the SB/AO/CS fallout. Wouldn't be the first time *cough*AC2*cough*

Yet, you say "we're not forcing you to take part." That's like saying "Yeah, we'll give you cool stuff if you do something you detest. You don't have to do it, but then you won't get the cool stuff that you paid (enter expansion cost here) for anyway. Yeah, I know, "it isn't going to be the only thing in the expansion". However, since it is the first thing talked about, that means it is intended it to be a major selling point. Otherwise, it'd never been mentioned until later.

I think time would be better spent making a new landmass (and I'm not talking ML size, I'm talking half the size of the mainland at LEAST. You've already shown that you can add ML sized landmasses without an expansion (Tusker Island. Not going to look up the name). Maybe change the storage system to make it more effecent in order to increase storage space without causing tons of lag. Make sperate models for low grade and high grade machines (like EQ). Maybe add new races (it'd only be for astetic value but still). Make towns hangout points for other reasons besides competion. Totally revamp the GUI. Introduce new quest dynamics. God, the list is endless on stuff that would be better to spend time on then this anti social crud.

[Kurak]

"The elder game described:

New Elder Game: An intricate and involved strategic resource and land control system that will allow players to compete for enhanced skills and town ownership. Through a new land-raid system, players will also be able to invade other allegiance’s territory and attempt to plunder the opposition’s resources, skills and abilities.

...will NOT REQUIRE players to be PK or PKL. NPK players will be able to fully participate in this content."

Here's a link to a thread where I fully commented on it ibn

http://forums.turbinegames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7042

I think that not making this PK only is throwing away an oppurtunity. It should at least be PK centric.

[Monitronic]

Heres an Idea that can appease all players when it comes to town control. Say for example my clan is going to raid Rithwic and try to take control. Maybe,just maybe we could have our share of Virindi paradox and such in town as well as PK's. This way,PvM have something to kill and the PK's have something to kill. This would make it more challengeing for everyone who wants to seperate themselves into a "class". Of course,once we have control,why not have critters do raids on mansions and Towns. May as well spice it all the way up and not leave out the whipcream. :D

[Ibn]

Originally posted by RaideDuku
I think time would be better spent making a new landmass (and I'm not talking ML size, I'm talking half the size of the mainland at LEAST. You've already shown that you can add ML sized landmasses without an expansion (Tusker Island. Not going to look up the name).

Don't assume that the features mentioned in the first press release are the ONLY features that will be in the expansion pack.

[Ashbringer]

Gezz Ibn... I feel sorry for you... you keep posting the same thing over and over again..... I would have started to just copy and paste my old posts after the 3rd or so....

Well.... I like what I am hearing about this.... That it doesnot need PK/L involvment... but that it might make it a bit more interesting...

As for the raiding part Ibn... it seems that your hinting that we may have to raid and plunder creatures settlements? Perhaps those of the new inhabitants of Dereth? Or even another race in the works..... Or the Denizens of a landmass that will be added in the Exp Pack.

OOooooooOOOO....

Ibn, I dont care what the rest of these guys are grumbleing about ( I dislike it when people make reallly bad assumptions from little data, but you havent provided much so what yah gonna do :) ) but you guys have me on the edge of my seat once again and finding it horribley unbearable to wait another year for this Expansion Pack... and if its a year away... you better litter us with teaser shots and/or updates everynow and then, say every other month (lol, a pic of a real close up distorted creature (pictureing end shot from new Texas Chainsaw Massacre)lol)... Like make that a section..... known things about the Exp Pack.... maybe you have,I dint look, lol.

Thanks Ibn.
Keep up the good work Turbine!

~Ash

[CaptMorgan]

I'm guessing the feeling that people will be "forced" to PK comes from the fact that if something like this WERE implemented in a PK centric way, that these people who are using this system could get this bonus (say, 2% higher sellback rate) while people who are PK-phobic will get no bonus.

Even though there is no game mechanic to FORCE them to do anything, they are forced by PROXY to participate in it, lest they are "penalized" by not having this 2% bonus. So technically, they want to compete indirectly with other players (I have more uber stuff, higher level, a better or at least equal place to sell stuff, etc, than this guy does), but not directly (PKing). I think.

[Ashbringer]

Well yeh... compete in feats of strength and skill :) . But Ibn said before that a NPK will be abel to gain all of the same considerations as a PK character can so this 2% higher sellback or whatever your talking about might also be tangible through a quest or something.

[Bensam]

From earlier in this thread:

Originally posted by Zero_Washu
Fine, anwser this one.

Can I as a never ever will PK, have access to all the same rewards that this elder game will present to those who PK?

Originally posted by Ibn
Yes. This has been in the design since day 1. Ask an ambiguous question, get an ambiguous answer :D

I hate to be picky, but (as has been stated earlier in this thread) if my NPK access to "all the same rewards" is based on PK/L's in my clan gaining my access to these rewards then the answer really isn't Yes.

Personallly, I'll give Ibn the benefit of the doubt on this one and take his answer at face value. I'm willing to wait and see what is announced in the future, but I realize that many feel differently, especially if you were around (like I was) when we were told that we would all have "equal access" to housing on the landscape and after nearly a year finally got our first apartment.

[Nihilist]

An unsuprising set of view points from posters here. I think there is a problem here. You have announced something, but haven't given out enough information. And so we have this troublesome situation of existing players with visions of dissolution.

I don't think the players or the development team are going to get much useful information out of this thread due to the nature of the press release.

Wait and see I think it is then. hopefully more news will be forthcoming in the near future.

[Ibn]

Originally posted by Bensam
I hate to be picky, but (as has been stated earlier in this thread) if my NPK access to "all the same rewards" is based on PK/L's in my clan gaining my access to these rewards then the answer really isn't Yes.

I know. I took this into account when I said yes.

[Briael_LC]

I find it interesting that you're inviting comments on such limited information. That can only lead to massive speculation and the PvM against PvP opinions that we've seen expressed thus far.

Perhaps the purpose is to gain ideas from us, to incorporate into the expansion. However, the customer base is wasting this opportunity to suggest how you might expand your ideas, preferring to moan about whether PvP or PvM deserves more content, shouldn't be affected by it etc.

On a purely speculative note (at least, until more information is released), I can only assume that "resources" will fall into the category of a commodity that can be used for another function ie raw materials for additional tinkering? Maybe the bonuses would come from new tinkering skills ie the ability to add our own combinations of attribute boosts to items using rare materials?

I don't see how this would tie in with NPKs having equal opportunities within a land-raid scenario (as, by it's very nature, raiding is the act of taking from another) but I'm sure you'll let us in on it at some stage ;)

I have to confess that I'm yet another non-PK/Ler who is concerned. Not because I don't want to see PK/L content added to the white servers, but because we see enough profanity, abuse, racial hatred etc from the PK/L community already. EDIT: I'm not stating that this is limited to the PK/L playerbase, but being red does seem to bring out the worst qualities in many people.

My fear would be that the entire land mass of Dereth would become open for this land-raiding of which you speak. I suspect that many of the posters on this thread share that fear and is what is prompting the never-ending response of "Not on my server!".

If you want ideas on how your basic development ideas could be expanded then give us the barebones and let us flesh it out for you. Don't alienate us before we even know where you're headed. ;)

[dragon-slayer]

i bought one upgrade then they gave it away let pk have thegame let them pay 30.00 a month

[Exodus]

*sigh* Well, Dev Team and Ibn, I hate to be blunt but this is how I feel:

In a way, this land-conquering thing will be like Mansions. One person will hold it and if some chance they fail, the other team won't be able to hold it... It's too much like warish type things... I personally don't like that kind of stuff because of well... What I just said... I mean like "Thase Skotoso's Allegiance controls Arwic!" for example... Can you please clarify what you mean? I'd like to know as much as you can tell us about the more intricate details of this... I really don't want to be dissapointed in the Expansion... (Not that I am!)
--Exodus Windstrike

[burns]

I am very excited for the next AC expansion. Actually, I'm excited about almost anything that you guys (Turbine) will be doing in your future. Keep up the great work!

To some of the posters on this thread: Would you give IBN a break already? IBN has answered the exact SAME question over ten times and it's flat out ridiculous. Maybe two of them were legitimate concerns that simply needed clarification. The rest were assumptions based upon what someone else (who doesn't develop this game) said. I can get about as much concrete info from my magic eight ball as I could from some of the posts from this thread.

Turbine will do whatever it takes to make this game the best it can be. I believe they have in the past and I believe they have even more freedom now to do so in the future. Please do not hold these ridiculous assumptions against them. If I were IBN, that would give me a headache. And if I had a headache, I wouldn't be able to concentrate on effective creating an EXPANSION PACK!

Instead, maybe people (and some have) should be inquiring about how/when they can give constructive feedback to aid in the process of developing the expansion pack. The key words are HOW and WHEN. The time is not now. If I'm the first person to help you realize this, then you obviously missed IBN's other ten posts.

Thank you Turbine! Cannot wait for this expansion pack, but I guess I'll have to. :(

[schragnasher]

Just came to read about this new expansion when i heard. Iv been looking for a reason to return to AC for a while. But you guys really turn me off with your wining that you cant have anyhting and everything. And its not hte PK players like people keep saying. IV seen MAYBEY 10 Posts by PK advocates, and non where whining or complaining. I think you guys are fooling yourself as to who is whiney.

[Esri]

I've tried to read every message in this thread, but I may have missed a page, so if this has been asked and answered forgive me. So far we've established that you don't have to go PK/PKL to participate in the content. My question: What if my monarch decides to go all Alexander the Great on us and take over Glenden Wood? Does that automatically involve everyone in the monarchy? Can we ever become PK against our will? (Our beloved queen has promised this would never happen, but we're talking theoretically here....)

Oh, and I'm still looking forward to the expansion despite my reservations about how land raiding could damage the "feel" of the white servers. Yes, we compete -- we try to out-level, out-item, out-quest each other. But overall it is indeed a spirit of friendship and cooperation that binds us. I'm also a little concerned that the land raid dynamic could create problems within allegiances -- suppose 20% of an allegiance want to raid and the rest don't. Drama, acrimony, rebellion.... *sigh*

- Esri, Thistledown

[Yinchi]

Ibn, I have yet to see anything posted that will relieve the concerns of those of us who do not want to compete for resources. Competing for resources is not a winner on white servers, it only leads to fighting among clans and friends.

I understand the difference between pk and PvP. You have assured us we won't have to go PK to gain these resources, yet there is no assurance that those who choose not to compete with other clans for ownership will lose the chance for any extra reward.

Most of us like the feeling of cooperation on white servers, we are only seeking reassurance that we can have all that is offered if we refuse to "compete".

[Lunkker]

Ibn's been kind enough to try to alleviate some of our concerns regarding the elder game... but what about the release date for the expansion? Why an entire year, or thereabouts, until it's release? I understand that it takes time to do something like that, but a whole year?

:confused:

[Micos]

I was just reading WoW release info. It would appear they will have various mounts for the races...if the tech is there for WoW to do it would it be possible to make this part of the expansion?

As for resources I like the idea...a chorozite rock found in a hill to prevent you from having to run the dungeon....or a cave that opens into a mine where your skill as a miner can yield gems of various craft and worth. (Use pick on vein of gems just like fishing pole and the fish). What I DONT like is an allegiance having control of who can and cant go in. Dereth has always been a Free Dereth and I like being able to Roam where my heart is content.

However, a NEW land mass...say the middle of the inner sea that would be a resource sight where allegiances COULD battle for control over resources or two or three towns (with bindstones) with lower resell bonuses, might be cool.

WoW also has a transport system in the works...Boats...this would be a cool addition to the expansion pack. I would probably limit it to the inland sea so the outer islands could remain portal only.

Increased graphics/poly will be sweet. I never did AC2 but the screenies of wind blown grass and realistic trees would be a welcome sight. Im always amazed by the weather patterns that come in...a more realistic environment would be pleasing.

Just some things Id like if I was gonna buy an expansion. Hats off to your moving forward with the expansion, and your dedication to playing both DungeonMaster and Computer programmer to the masses.

[Ashbringer]

Originally posted by Yinchi
Ibn, I have yet to see anything posted that will relieve the concerns of those of us who do not want to compete for resources. Competing for resources is not a winner on white servers, it only leads to fighting among clans and friends.

I can't be sure... but I think Ibn did address this... and even if he hasn't.. I dont think you should be concerned. After all of the additions to game (tinkering, questing, mansions, housing, etc) Has anyone EVER been forced into it? No. Your not even forced to do the academy training on your first day which is so easy they might as well just give you 5 levels at bginning of game. I am sure that Ibn and the teams will take this stance with the Expansion, too. It will most likely be another addition to the game that you choose your level of particaption (if any) and its main intent is to give AC a new twist and keep the game interesting.

I am honestly looking forward to this Expansion Pack especially the raid system. If you are talking about it being feats of strength and skill and such, that's awesome. Killing tusker and Virindi to no end and trying to out run Pookie is getting old. This Expansion Pack, all of it (even raiding) will revive the game much as AC:DM's release.

Keep up the great work and keep us posted!
~Ash

[Ivanhoe]

They will milk this "new server coming soon" and "Expansion pack coming soon" forever while you still pay 13 a month.


Thanks turbine but No thanks.

[Harzah]

regarding the graphics update: sounds awesome. I have an older machine that still plays this game and I'd like for it to continue doing so. I do hope that you give animations some consideration as well, eventually, in the graphics updates.

regarding the elder game, well I personally cannot conceive of a competitive system that doesn't involve PvP but that's just me. In general, I am not interested in an elder system, except as it may affect my allegiance or myself (indirectly through my allegiance mates). Yes, I'm anti-social a bit so I doubt my P.O.V. is the norm ;) and frankly I'm not even remotely ready for any elder system, regardless of what it is, unlike those who've been high level for some time now and are growing bored. :) So, if it helps keep them happier, I'm happy =)

[Ashbringer]

Originally posted by Ivanhoe
They will milk this "new server coming soon" and "Expansion pack coming soon" forever while you still pay 13 a month.


Thanks turbine but No thanks.

Hey Ivan.... the new server, is launching with the may update. So I dont know what you mean by milking it. As for the press release... true, they haven't given us anything much as far as what to expect... but I think the tid bits are fair...

Comon now. If you arent going to post anything constructive.... as a matter of fact, you really didnt say anything about the Expansion Pack... so your post doesnt even belong here..... go.

Harzah... Ibn has said that it might be PvP but in more like racing then fighting...... but as for alternatives....
He has definetly hinted at new races coming to Dereth and a new landmass so why not compete for resources, skills and abilities against a creature settlement? Just what I was thinking.... I dont have anymore information than anyone else.... but I think everyone that has been posting here has to think outside the box for a moment.... There is a new race arriving in Dereth as we speak.... why not have another come to us during the Expansion.... or we even take the war to them...... which would involve a new landmass and having to raid outposts and or cities.

So comon people.... stop thinking its going to be horrible when all you have is 5 lines of vague text to go on. But if you do feel the need to say something bad... at least make it constructive Ivan :P.

[MachFoo]

I don't want to listen some little punk saying...ha ahahahah....I roxor joo...I am leet...you are the suck...I got your land....

SCREW THAT...and screw any expansion that makes me put up with it.

I highly suspect I will be leaving, I abhor the crappy politics and fighting around that kind of stuff. (Land Wars) I seen enough of its bitter hateful **** on Shadowbane...which makes me wonder..if I am going to leave then...why am I wasting my time here NOW?

[Helbereth]

There's something to be said for secrecy in the open market. I mean Turbine doesn't want other companies copying their ideas before they even get a chance to release them, but I thought they'd learned what shallowing the player information pool does to their message boards.
"Holy Poop on a stick! Read this! They're adding toothpicks! We're gonna be able to snack on rations then stand around the mansion, sip ale, and pick our teeth! Dude!"

This Elder Game thing sounds mildly interesting and I have no doubt it will somehow relate to the bindstones that were mentioned in the April in development write-up, however it doesn't sound like something that will attract new players or spark interest in veterans. It might for Darktide players - God knows they need something else to fight over there - but appeasing 1/8 of the servers isn't the best way to promote an expansion that's not even due for release until next year.
"Well... Um... It's new... and stuff... and it's mildly interesting... and.... ... hmmm... wanna go play Everquest?"

The texture thing sounds great. AC's always been a content driven game.... The fact that Dereth is about as detailed in appearance as a soda can has always been a secondary concern. Increasing the texture quality will help that quite a bit, but it wont be enough for some of my friends who are addicted to semi-photo-realistic games like Final Fantasy XI and WoW.
"Dude, I just ran through a sewer and I swear to god I could smell the rotting pound cake!"

I think what AC needs more than textures is a huge increase in polygon counts. Especially in character graphics. Look at some of the new critters you've set free on Dereth like the Hovering Olthoi. I'm fairly certain they're made up of quite a few more polygons than my sword toon. It tends to clash pretty badly in screenshots when you take a shot of your epic battle with an Olthoi Lacerator and you have to go back and touch up your character because somehow his head became detached.
"A fierce battle he won, but at what cost?"

We're not asking for much, really. All we want is to maybe be able to judge distance without using radar - something that's nearly impossible with the current fish-eye-lens perspective. How about extending the pop-in radius for monsters. I personally think that if a critter is on radar you should be able to see it on the playing field well enough to discern it from other critters around it. "No damn you I want to select the Hollow Minion, not the Tusker!"

As for people who complain the expansion should focus on content shut up. Have you been paying attention the past 5 years? They add new content every month. Just because it's an expansion doesn't immediately signify 'huge story arc'. Sure it could include part of a story arc or something new and interesting - like and island where you can buy cheetos and 3-liter bottles of soda for those long hours macroing tuskers - but please let them focus on updating the game!
"Man I still can't find my way through this new dungeon."
"Uh, Bill, this isn't a dungeon it's an island."
"An island? Then what's that big rock?"
"That's a 7-11, Bill... this is Manhattan."
"Manhattan? I don't remember reading about that in the dev notes..."
"C'mon Bill, let's go back to the house."
"Ok lemme recall"
"Bill... you feeling ok?"
"No not really... I can't find my chat box."
"..."

[Balderson]

After spending hours reading through these posts I can say that a lot of you should relax and let IBN develop and enhance AC and as they move along then let them release more details.

As a software developer I have first hand experience in releasing new code to an existing application, you can not take an existing game like AC and expect to make things happen overnight. For those of you that think early 2005 is a long time to wait and could do it all on your own much quicker, you should start up your own company and develop a game where you can do just that, maybe you will get some followers but I bet you will be back once you see how difficult it is.

You need to keep in mind that they will still be delivering monthly enhancements also. As they do this the team that is working on the new expansion will have to upgrade their developing environment at the same time to ensure the code they use is the latest release. Its not an easy task.

They have also said that these are only 2 features, this to me means there will be more since they didnt say that they were introducing a new expansion to provide just those two features. They didn't provide any detail because they probably don't have all the detail worked out at this point yet. A lot of people are drawing their own conclusions and you shouldn't do that. AC has not totally disreguarded any player as far as I know. Each monthly patch lets each individual player take part in it or not take part in it.

For those of you that are threatening to leave..... Go, that opens up more villas for the rest of us :D

I am excited over this announcement and will wait patiently for updates and the release. I think what they are doing is very good for the worlds and game play, it keeps AC unique.

Some of you that are asking for certain things, it sounds like you are describing other games..... If you want that go play the other games that already offer that. I am confident that Turbine will give more character and incredible adventure to the existing game with whatever they do and it will be enjoyed by all that wish to accept it.

I think they have done an outstanding job so far and have kept it alive with the way they have been introducing new changes and aspects.

Roll on IBN ... Roll on!

[Alissa]

The expansion is much needed and the ideas are intriguing.

Yes those of us not in the habit of being a red or pink dot are wondering what the "raiding" and control aspects will bring, we will just have to see.

The "Elder" game will be just that and the various bits of lore and the ends of story arcs point to many possibilities.

1) The main land will be reachable in our attempt to rid Auberean of the olthoi queen. Maybe this is impossible due to the sheer number of olthoi there. We shall see.

2) Sky Pirates who raided Aerlinthe may return and we maybe able to fend them off and take one of their craft getting to their homeland.

3) The Gelidites and Faltacot are running amok again, will our search for answers and/or a way to rid ourselves of them take us to the heights of frozen Gelid uponthe mainland?

4) Buruun from the future are here or are they from somewhere else? Are they the true Harbinger of what is to come?

So possibilities are there I think we should just sit back and let the Expansion Pack come and see what happens. They have enthralled many of us for 4 plus years just on monthly patches and superior gameplay, let us see what they can cook up finally on their own to expand our gaming horizon and enjoyment of the game. If it truly does not appeal to you then I would say let the sun finally drop on your adventures in Dereth.

[Dusktreader]

I (for one) am just going to sit back and wait until more details are available. 2005 is a long way off and lots can change.

IBN has stated numerous time that PK will NOT be required, so I choose to believe him (I don't PK).

Will we have to compete (like for housing)? Maybe.

If we do, then when the details are announced and it is NEAR decision making time, I will choose whether I want to purchase the upgrade for the content that is NOT related to competition. I've been playing 4 years, and when housing came out in DM, about 4 people I played with quit because of lack of access to housing. They felt that "burned". It was their decision. I suspect that people will make that choice in 2005.

This reminds me (in a very tangential comparison) of the furor long ago when the 1st Batman movie was announced and people heard Michael Keaton was playing Batman. "No", people cried, "Woe is me, how can Mr. Mom play Batman? My world has been shattered!"

A year or so later the movie actually came out, people went to see it, and the general opinion changed to "That was pretty cool, I guess Keaton made an OK Batman after all".

Anyway, just a long winded post advocating that people give Turbine a bit of slack here.

[Dusktreader]

Originally posted by Dragonsoul
Would it be an accurate statement to say that the MAJORITY of players DO NOT enjoy PK activity?

I am curious also. Seems like Turbine should be able to access statistics on the # of accounts per server and compare those to the number of "red" accounts to get some kind of percentage of folks who PK.

May be harder to determine how many people dabble in "going pink" every once in a while, but the red vs. non-red should be a statistic they could share with us.

Any thoughts, Ibn?

[Sabu]

The raiding system sounds cool.*even for npk servers!*

Could Scenario give us his opinion of the new graphix engine?

[Sabu]

The best thing u can do is get us more n00bs :)! Cant wait to see the expansion pack and the newbs coming in!

[Rapton]

Ok now listen. You should make it possible for the elder game to be run via pvp. But only make it a pvp situation. Give some advantages to the alliegance as a whole for it. The npks than wont have a reason to scream because they dont need to do anything. Better yet just make a seperate continent and specialize it in land conquering. Place mansions and two towns there. Than make it a very tough place to be in and give serious reasons to fight for land there.


I would like to see some serious increases in monster ai. For instance if I am fighting in BSD and I am slaughtering tuskers I want to see some tusker assailers from outside bsd running to the aid of their fallen comerads. While my buddy is outside fighting he can give me a heads up telling me that there is incoming. Or vice versa. Also make it so the monsters are consatantly attacking and fighting. Dont just make it a one time event. Make it so olthoi from olthoi north suddenly randomly attack Arwic. And have the spawn litterally march from olthoi north. Why not see raids of bandits on marae against town settlements there. Would it not be cool to be fighting eviscerators in olthoi north and than suddenly see a huge army of dark magus come out of no where to fight the olthoi. Or while turning in my uncarved sings hea come out of no where in massive waves trying to destroy the Aun town. Lets see some raids in marketplace :)

[Avaton]

Originally posted by Orion
We're not about to shoot ourselves in the feet with an elder game based solely on PK activity. What we want to do is provide elder players with a new game dynamic that will be competitive, engaging and ever-changing.

Great. Then remove the level/skill caps and add content accordingly. Personally I'd find this far more appealing than running around with 500 other level 126/capped characters trying to take towns...

Speaking of which, is anything at all being done about the level/skill cap problem?

[Mosswart Ninja]

Ibn, please address the PK-centrist design and content creeping further and further into AC. Seems like Turbine is screaming "ME TOO" in the online gaming wars. Shifting AC further into the current glut of PK- centrist games on the market will be a bad idea for the future of AC in my opinion. I'm certainly not in charge but it has always seemed to me that to truly compete effectively you strive for DIFFERENCE between competing products, not degrees of difference. Not everyone plays MMORPG for the fake "danger-thrill" grief mentality. Not even a majority of your player base pk's or pkl's. And pardon me for being blunt, but those that do PK are perhaps the most problematic accounts you have subscribed, some with a considerable history of bans and exploits. And true to AC's design history, you seem to be ignoring and worse, further limiting non-pk options to cater to PK interests AGAIN. Please convince me it isn't so...:(

[daemo_nn]

"Originally posted by Cuttler
I DONOT PK and I will NEVER accept the above in my game play.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



That's cool. You won't have to PK to enjoy this content."

Uh, I believe Cuttler's point was that he doesn't WANT to enjoy this content. Neither do I. You take out XP Chains (a good thing) which gets rid of some of the "have and have-nots" aspect, then you introduce this, which puts it all back in, in a worse way!

Sorry. No.


ALSO. With the graphics update, I think it would be a good idea to do it in something portable, like OpenGL. Not all of us like to use Windows, and by using a portable graphics API, you make the game more portable. This is the reason you can play (for instance) Quake III on Linux. DirectX is NOT portable.


*edit*

"As a software developer I have first hand experience in releasing new code to an existing application, you can not take an existing game like AC and expect to make things happen overnight. For those of you that think early 2005 is a long time to wait and could do it all on your own much quicker, you should start up your own company and develop a game where you can do just that, maybe you will get some followers but I bet you will be back once you see how difficult it is."

Very true.

*other_edit*

"I would like to see some serious increases in monster ai. For instance if I am fighting in BSD and I am slaughtering tuskers I want to see some tusker assailers from outside bsd running to the aid of their fallen comerads. While my buddy is outside fighting he can give me a heads up telling me that there is incoming. Or vice versa. Also make it so the monsters are consatantly attacking and fighting. Dont just make it a one time event. Make it so olthoi from olthoi north suddenly randomly attack Arwic. And have the spawn litterally march from olthoi north. Why not see raids of bandits on marae against town settlements there. Would it not be cool to be fighting eviscerators in olthoi north and than suddenly see a huge army of dark magus come out of no where to fight the olthoi. Or while turning in my uncarved sings hea come out of no where in massive waves trying to destroy the Aun town. Lets see some raids in marketplace"

All of those sound interesting, and would be a great addition. The olthoi marching and the idea you had about fighting guards and slaves and suddenly being attacked by assailers especially sound interesting.

[Demiblood]

Please don't follow the route of Everquest where you make like 30 expansions for one game PLEASE! A lot of people don't have the money to buy all the expansions and pay for the monthly subscription(including me).:p

[Voodoo Man]

wow! do you guys also demand to know what the patch is going to include 3 months from now?

[Hamfast]

We are about a year or more from the release of this expansion, they have some vague ideas on the content they would like to add, some possible changes, some things they would like to do...

Here is what we know:

1) The Expansion pack has been green lighted...

2) It will have changes to many things...

3) A lot of the changes will be to the list of the changes...

4) There will be more information released about the list of changes and the changes to that list of changes...:D

5) Ibn (if not bald already) May be so before this is all over just from pulling out his hair trying to get us to see that the Changes to the list of changes were part of the information that has been and will be released about the list of changes and the changes to that list of changes...:rolleyes:

6) Orion is still cool, and does not mind that Alex has gone bald, in fact, it has given him an idea for a new Orb that can be added to the list of changes that is not a change to the list of changes but may have to be changed in an upcoming list of changes and the changes to that list of changes...:p

[_b0o]

so odd that people are so against any pvp content

first off, this land control system seems like the one from anarchy online's first expansion. you control land, and can set up statues/towers that give you and/or everyone in your clan small bonuses to skills. maybe 25-40% of the clans in AO actively fight for land, and then its only a handful of pk savy players in each clan who attack/defend for the land.

on top of that, from what i see of ao the land control bonuses are nice, but are in no way nessicary to play or still be 'uber'. if turbine does relatively the same thing with their land control system, small bonuses, then i dont see it as a problem. you will no HAVE to pk, your clan doesnt HAVE to have land to be a good clan. if the bonuses of land control are enough to make it worthwhile but not so much that it is required to be able to play enjoyable, then i dont see a problem.

all you people worrying about it 'forcing' you to pvp have nothing to worry about i think.

this sounds great to me, pvp in ac died when housing was added and town's vendor rates nerfed(only reason to go to town), thisll give something back as incentive to pvp and reason to go outside ur mansion/hunting spot on dt.

[_b0o]

Originally posted by Demiblood
Please don't follow the route of Everquest where you make like 30 expansions for one game PLEASE! A lot of people don't have the money to buy all the expansions and pay for the monthly subscription(including me).:p

man i dont think you have to worry about that, this is like the 2nd expansion in the almost 5 years of ac?

and dark majesty costed what, a wooping 20$ with free month of play? thats 10$, basically cost to make the cds, books, box, ship em out ot stores, cover advertising, etc..

i dont think we'll have an issue of turbine going expansion pack looney to make money, they seem to be very good with that, only releasing an expansion pack when 'needed'. in 'needed' i mean as in an update that would be too large to just download as a patch and changes more then ig content, changes dynamics of the game, ie graphics.

[Obiwan]

Wow, 24 pages of posts about an expansion that is only in the "in development" stage. Wether for PVP or for NPK's, which its been clearly stated OVER and OVER again is not the case. The fact is they have a story arc that they will base the content around. This will conceivibly be balanced between the people that strickly PVP and those NPK's that like to mix it up a bit now and again with PKL and those (like myself) that want nothing to do with either of the dynamics. I trust the folks at Turbine to make these things happen.
Besides, all that you folks on both ends of the sprectrum worry about, was implemented, and exploited, with the introduction of DM. Housing was a battle for everyone PK and NPK alike. I myself sat up for hours upon hours to ensure I would be able to get my first Cottage. I then did it again when I got the Villa Ive had since July of 2002. I had people standing by the Housing Crystal of my Villa rtying to outlast me and I simply went to battle and held and kept my gound till the Villa was mine. And no Im not a young kid with out a job and resposabilties in the real world. But I made it happen none the less. It was fun as well.

Ibn, Orion, Jessica and the rest of the crew, if it takes you till 2006 to make this expansion, take the time. I've read a **** load of opinions about this game and what needs to happen. And I think everyone knows one thing for certain... Graphics Graphics Graphics. This is talked about more than anything in the game. AC1 has more content than any MMORPG going today and still has staying power to go into the future. But its got to be prettier and its got to continue to grow. PVP folks need purpose, I have confidense you'll give it to them. the rest of the player base and including the PKers want Graphics to be better first and foremost, the rest of it as I read it, are bonuses.

IMO:
- I want a new graphic engine that requires players to have at least a 64meg card

- I'd like to see more content and land to explore along with more great story arcs to read (Hey how about a book for the AC store?)

- I'd like to see some added Soloable quests.

- I'd like to be able to play they way I have played for 4+ years.

My list of other MMORPG's is easy AC2(beta), Lineage II (beta) Both of wich I will never go to again.

Why? Simple... Neither of them comes close to the great feeling I have when I play AC1. This game gives me a feeling of freindship, and of comradery. I have great fun playing this game and being able to help others in the game. Currently in Harvestgain I took on helping a mid level player whos been playing for 3-4 years as well. And Im proud to point out that this player isnt even in my own clan. I didnt care about that. I wanted to help him and I did. And I still do. Im 38 years old. This player is 16. We are now friends from across the country playing a wonderfull game called ACDM... Thats why I love AC...

Keep up the good work Turbine... Make it great and they'll keep coming.

[Zan Xott]

I've been playing AC 1 since beta. My main sez he was born Nov 8 1999.

But I'll be damned if I'm gonna continue supporting (sic) TURBINE NATION with my monthly stipend if this game - via the expansion pack - turns into a PK centric, DOAC-type game. No way, no how.

Where and why did you guys n' girls lose your way ? Trying to be different ? Trying to accomodate the lowest possible denominator with disposable income ? Trying to churn the membership ?

Ya know, sometimes when you churn you don't get butter. You get batter (hey batta batta batta...SWING) ....or worse.

Stop playing to the corporate line and give us the game that allowed you to procure MEO and DODO.

[jets turned to simmer]

[Juzam]

Cant wait for the new influx of players into the pool.. Teaching truly new people is what will give a lot of people that "old time" feeling again.

Elder game sounds like it has the potential to be very bad, but I hope they dont let it. I know IBN said it would not force people to go PvP, but I want to reinforce that there are an overwhelming majority who do not want it involved. If I wanted to PvP I would NOT be playing AC.

[tribol]

My main 'want' from an AC expansion is simply and upgraded graphics engine. Forget the hardware requirements of 1999 and spec it for current 2004 hardware. Somthing like this :)

Minimum System Specifications

• Windows® 98/ME/2000/XP
• Intel Pentium® III 800 MHz or AMD Athlon 800 MHz
• 256 MB RAM
• 4X CD-ROM Drive
• 2 GB Available HDD Space
• GeForce 2 Series or ATI Radeon 8500 Series

Video Card
• DirectX 9.0
• 16-bit Sound Card
• 56k modem
• Keyboard and mouse


Recommended System Requirements

• Windows® 2000/XP
• Intel Pentium® 4 1.7 GHz or AMD Athlon XP 1700+
• 512 MB RAM • 16X CD-ROM Drive
• 2 GB Available HDD Space
• GeForce 5600 or ATI Radeon 9600 Series

Video Card
• 16-bit Sound Card
• Broadband Internet Connection
• Keyboard and mouse with wheel


Turbine always does very well with content and I am open to anything content wise they want to do.

[Ardham]

IBN & Turbine:

After reading thru 16 pages+ of whining and complaining about as small tidbit of information I salute you. As an old time player to AC, an advocate, a sentinel, a 3rd party developer... I can say this... you continue to amaze and bewilder me to the point of keeping the game every single patch.

I see issues, I complain but thru it all AC is just a game that keeps me interested. I have considered quiting many times only to have you throw another bone my way to spark interest... toss a fishing hole here or there... etc. AC is fun dynamic and challenging all on it's own.

I hope that you understand that EVERYONE who is still here posting to these forums feels the same way... AC isn't a game, it's a culture, a community and most of all it's a bunch of friends who may not know each other in real life but in game they are the best of friends. Your co-worker could be an AC player you game with hard core every weekend and you'd never know it.

That's the dynamic of AC I love most. We're a community of people who help people... not a community of backstabbers against backstabbers... please don't change that.

Ok... enough of the back patting for a great game... here's my 2cents...

Elder Content: In order to continue to enjoy rewards and benefits at this high of a level will I be forced in ANY way to have to take part in this Monarchy Vs Monarchy? Honestly AC never had it before except on Red Worlds, and the only time it was anything was for those players who wanted to do it. There was NO reward other than braging rights.

Can we get a tidbit more information... I'd like to know if there'll be rewards for Kingdom's helping Kingdoms and I'm not talking about plundering resources from other kingdom's and splitting the rewards... I'm talking about a game dynamic that rewards helping each other. Like an XP gain or Skill gain or something to all monarchie members or whatever that is a direct result of both guilds helping each other.

Graphics Engine : Can we get better weather and water effects? I hate the idea of "walking" on water or wading thru an ocean. I want depth and damage for not breathing ... etc.

Can we see real lighting bolts from the sky and not just a flash of light? Can we see it hit trees/buildings/mountains and have some residual effect as part of the monthly content changes? you can time when the lightening will strike and have landscape changes accordingly when the event triggers.. and this could be dynamic to each world.

Can we see real snow fall / accumulation effects? Cold damage when it's winter?

Can we see heat damage when it's summer, we all heal fast so 1 point here and there to remind us that DAMN it's a hot summer day is nothing even to a level 1 :) Can we get hot summer days where there's not a single cloud in the sky?

Can we get spring rains and monsoon rainstorms in jungle areas?

Can we get better trees all over the place?? :) I love the new ferns :)

Can we get/buy a new graphics engine and slowly watch the changes to the content as you guys roll out the updated graphics each month PRIOR to the expansion release??? :)

- - Remember Dereth is FULL of people who want to help you - -
And I'm not just talking about the old online team :)

[Lord-of-Light]

tribol, I was reading your post about upgrading AC to bring it into the 21st century and use 2004 era hardware specs, and while noting that my current comp meets virtually none of your min sys specs, then I get down to "56K modem"...what the heck is up with that?

Even with my ancient 3-year old comp that's just barely above an IBM Selectric typewriter in terms of specs, I have/use cable broadband, and had/used DSL before that...even for my earlier computer with which I first played AC (which was the equivalent of a gimped-up Colecovision)...for 3+ years.

56K is like for the Stone Age, amigo. Anyone that doesn't have access to conventional DSL/A DSL or cable broadband can get access via satellite DSL or a T1 line or access via wireless, or whatever...

On a more serious note, have you not been reading what the Devs have been saying, or what other software designers have been saying, or what others who follow this kind of stuff (like me) have been saying?

It would be a gargantuan task to convert AC over to a new engine. Why? Because it is a highly complex virtual world entailing tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of objects, textures and routines embodied in how many hundreds of thousands (millions?) of lines of code? Do you have any idea how many manyears of coder time that it would take to convert AC just as it is today (hint: take a look at the ACDM credits sometime just to see how many people worked on that project...which did NOT entail an engine switchover)?

And what would you do about AC proper in the meantime (since every bit of new content would have to be written in the 'new' code as well as the 'old' code)? Declare a moratorium on all new content? For a year or more? If so, what happens to AC's subscriber base in betweentimes?

To shorten the downtime/conversion time, do you reduce the amount of re-coding that's necessary by reducing the amount of existing AC content that you convert over? If so, what do you eliminate? One or more of the islands entirely All of them? Which dungeons do you eliminate? Which critter types? Do you eliminate one or more weapon classes entirely (and all the variant weapons/animations associated with them)? Do you perhaps decide to eliminate all unique items in the game (including all tinked weaps and armor)? Do you eliminate all housing, and all items associated with housing (including all ingame storage and the housing portal network)?

And what engine do you select as your new platform? The T2 engine that was used in/for AC2. That engine is, of course, proprietary to Turbine and it already has programmers who are intimately familiar with it as well as AC generally. However, the Devs have indicated that (all other practicability issues aside) a conversion of AC to the T2 engine would entail the sacrifice of significant elements of AC existing gameplay (perhaps most notably the "speed" <movement and combat> we have in AC now, and a signicant reduction in the number of active/animate objects that can be in the field of play at any one time <in terms of mob size and presumably active players as well>). Perhaps you might be willing to sacrifice these game elements for better graphics, but how about everyone else? If so, wouldn't it make more sense to just pump out an AC 2.5?...i.e., tweak out a variant of AC2 that engrafts all the presently unduplicated AC mechanics possible into the AC2 world, and then enables us to just move ourselves/our char rosters over to AC2.5? After all, that arwork is already done, the (reduced) world already exists...and such an AC 2.5 (sans housing) might be deliverable within a matter of months. Of course, the key issue here would be whether the AC subscriber base would buy into an AC 2.5.

It also might be possible to convert AC over to the T3 engine...the one that's being used in/for MEO; the presumed advantages to doing so would be, again, that engine is proprietary to Turbine and, again, Turbine already has programmers/coders who are familiar with that engine. However, a conversion to the T3 engine (as compared to AC 2.5) would embody the gargantuan project first noted above, and there's no way to know how compatible that engine would be vis-a-vis AC's existing gameplay mechanics.

And if you don't use either the T2 or T3 engine, which engine do you use? Which other engine out there is most accomodative to AC's existing gameplay mechanics (while delivering the graphics bang you want)? Who owns that engine? Are they willing to license the engine to Turbine at all, and, if so, how much do they want for that license? How many 'independent' programmers/coders are familiar with that engine? How hard are they to find? How hard are they to hire? How important is it that they be familiar with AC? How much bigger/more complex a job is it to convert the AC code over to that engine? What if the resolution of these 'incidental' issues (rights negotiations, staff search/hiring, game orientation) added another year or more to the Xpack release timeline. And how much does this approach add to the cost of the Xpack?...and from whence and how the heck would those additional costs be recovered?

[tribol]

Those are the system specs for CoH.. 56k modem is simply listed as the minimum connection to play the game.. Even the very best games of today can function at that speed.

As for the engine upgrades... They are more than doubling textures.. Already upgrade polys on things and have been for some time. Why not rework as much of the graphics engine as possible to add features of today. The number one reason for an expansion pack is this very thing. If I remember correctly the idea popped up after everyone saw and played AC2. They want the fun of AC with graphics similar in quality to AC2.

I'm no expert on gaming and coding graphic engines but I would think to boost player base in AC and get it back on shelves it would need to compete in a major way with todays latest games graphics wise.

Basically though I am just saying that personally that is my number one wish for the expansion. If it falls short i'll still buy it lol.

[pea]

"If I wanted to control towns and dungeons etc. I'd go play DAoC or Shadowbane."

Why don't you ask the high-level people in DAoC why they still play? I think you will find a *very* large number of them do so specifically for the reasons you just stated.

If DAoC can have as many players as it does, through the entertainment of a landcontrol system.. that would be unhealthy for AC how??? You don't want more players? Well, I think Turbine might -- and I know I sure as hell do.

I'm not going to play an MMORPG by myself, and at the moment.. that's what PK is like on all servers but DT. DT, however, attracts a lot of ugly personalities.. and I have no motivation to play there with already established accounts.

[Ardham]

You know...

Turbine could just roll out the new features on to new worlds like VT and leave the old worlds as they are sans-landcontrol mechanics.

Sure it adds a level of programming but really how hard is it to compile 2 sets of client servers that match a #define parameter? :)

Can anyone say AC 1.1 for landcontrol and 1.0 for not?

[Tesuji Aji]

Can we have real beards rather than the girly man vandikes and foo man choos, pls pls... I mean the programers for AC dont have wimp beards why do the chars have to!!!!


Will Candith Keep get fixed so I dont lag to death every time I run out?

Edit: can you move all the houses villas and cottages underground so the landscape is not cluttered with stuff again?

Can I have my cake and eat it too?

meijin

[madrusky]

All i can say is jumpin jehosifats YE HA !!!:D

[Bruiserk]

Originally posted by pea
"If I wanted to control towns and dungeons etc. I'd go play DAoC or Shadowbane."

Why don't you ask the high-level people in DAoC why they still play? I think you will find a *very* large number of them do so specifically for the reasons you just stated.

If DAoC can have as many players as it does, through the entertainment of a landcontrol system.. that would be unhealthy for AC how??? You don't want more players? Well, I think Turbine might -- and I know I sure as hell do.

I'm not going to play an MMORPG by myself, and at the moment.. that's what PK is like on all servers but DT. DT, however, attracts a lot of ugly personalities.. and I have no motivation to play there with already established accounts.

So, if you're so all fired up for a land control system, why don't you just go play DAoC?

I'm with the other guy. If I wanted to play that kind of a game, I'd be playing it now, since it's already available in another game.

[Iceness]

I cannot believe the ignorance in this thread it seems as if people never read anything but the initial post and teh flames they find


this addition is great sounding!

I have been waiting for years for an improved PvP competition and I cant wait!

[DireUltra]

Sorry if this question has already been asked I've only read 6/17 pages so far. I am not a PKer and the lack of PK is my reason for staying with AC. I have read that PK will not be necessary to access the content and benefits of the expansion pack which is a huge relief. However, my concern is; having a land raiding system sounds like it will lend itself to monarchy wars over territory. If I am a member of a monarchy that decides it will go to war will I be a PK target for the other monarchy or will I have the option to remain in my monarchy but not participate in the battles? In an earlier post Yinchi said “… This is not the AC that I know and love.” which encompasses exactly how I feel.

[madrusky]

Bah who cares about the territory wars open your horizions i really only care about the graffics update anyhow .... most char's that are and a decent level hunt solo anyhow and dont do alot of Allegence stuff so i dont mind the war over land thing.... remember this is relative to Real Life and to humans all through history !

[Zeeky]

I've never seen so many whiners ever. Seriously.

I for one am excited about the features of this new expansion. AC needs something to get rid of the buff-kill-loot-sell-rebuff-kill syndrome. I don't think forcing people to PK to be more powerful is bad either. In fact, it makes more sense since the risk ratio for PKing is far higher then that of PvM and therefore the reward should be higher. Adding more meaning to PKing will make it more attractive even to the carebears.