Comment on the subscription change and new world here.

[Lurchy]

I think I do. Once many lifestones ago people were respected because they earned their loot, experience, and knowledge.

Today, someone can log into the game after 24 hours and 500+ million will be waiting. Did they earn this xp? No. Did their vassels who macroed? No. Did a computer program? Yes.

So, someone who has earned any % of their xp from ucming (whether it was from themselves or from their vassels) has fast forwarded the game infinite amounts.

Today we have pre-teens, teens, nimrods, and etc.... that don't know how to fight in an 80+ dungeon, yet somehow they're level 126+.

There is a gal on Morningthaw that is 122 (last i seen her) that has Unarmed Combat trained. You think she earned those levels? It takes her 50 swings to kill an Olthoi Mutilator. Judging by her no specialized weapon template, I'd say she has no clue on some of the dynamics of the game. A long time ago, lets say 2 years, if you or I ran across a level 122, we probably both would have been in awe. The level 122 could have told us many things about the game, showed us many weapons, quest items, how to get somewhere, what monsters not to fight.

Imagine if you picked up the game from a bargin bin and started playing AC for the first time today, with no pre-existing knowledge of the game. There is a good chance that you'll run into a 126+ sword character thats never done the Overlords quest, Frozen Fury quest, made a bandit sword, went to Dungeon Fern, did the Redoubt quest. Im sorry, but everyone that claims that ucming is playing this game and anti-ucmers should let them play the game have missed out on tons of material. So, in what way does it affect us? It has shattered the social aspect of the game.

[Jehm]

Originally posted by Lurchy
So, in what way does it affect us? It has shattered the social aspect of the game.

Okay, if that is your view fine. However it has not shattered it in the way you suggest for every one.

Sure I could start today an run into a player as you describe. I could yes, I also might not.

Sound like you have a strong feeling about how the game should be played. Thats great! I think I can understand then why it would be so disapointing to have people play the game in such a way as it tromps all over that and diminishes the value for you. Yeah that might frustrait me too, if I felt the way you do.

But it seems to me there ethics on how to enjoy this game that are very different then those you describe. What has made them okay, along with the one you describe is that they have been within the stated rules. Because much of playing the game with techniques to maximize xp in allegence with others has been completely within the rules, it seems that neither can be judged more or less right then the other. That is where much of my frustration with Turbines letter comes from.

I like the style of play you describe. I remember when my monarchy didn't have a mansion. They had a tent on a hill above the crypt in Al-Jalima. Hours apon hours spent at the tent waiting for the big bad level 40+ers to come lead a quest or take us hunting to teach techniques. In fact my first day in the game I felt a bit like Helen Keller, deaf and blind. I found my first Patron, Keemo, and ran from Yanshi to Al-Jalima at an atonishing rate of 1 pixal a second. Ironicly it was great fun!

However, as the game and the community has evovled so too have the social issues. As Turbine suggested, the players have matured, which I have termed to mean they are more sophisticated at getting the game (Dereth) to be what they want it to be. Enter the "War of Ethics!" or "Fractured Factions."

It is a bit complicated I am seeing. But, I still am unpleased and find it bad role modeling for Turbine to incinuate in there letter that one faction or another are cheaters. They can't be cheaters. Both (and I hate using these labels) chainers and anti-s have played within the rules. It is that simple. For Turbine to label chainers as cheaters is insulting its paying players. For you to do it, is unfortunate but less of a big deal. You and I have equal status. We are each players. Turbine has DM status and can zap your charecter with lighting if you piss um off. (I have a DM that use to threaghten that stuff when we got out a line :-)

But at any rate Lurchy you clarified for me why chaining bothers you. I appreciate your perspective on that. Can you see mine.

Now... as I understand it UCMing is against the rules. I don't know how to do it but I don't think I would if I could. Again.. its against the rules. Chains in allegences are not.

[coma_black]

totally aggree..
you go lurch


i can't count on fingers and toes how many lvl 150ish "noobs" i've met. i mean they ask sill questions. lvl 150 asking a lvl 10 where he can buy tapers. yes i am exagerating a bit on the tapers but not by much. when i see guys bragging they macro to lvl 200 and are so leet yet can't even find thier way to the nearest town when they are 50 yrds away.

like i said take all the people you got in the hall of shame and all the ones that need to be there and send them and all thier accts to the new server and let them exploit themselves into oblivian.

[Triane]

An "heir" is a person, "here" is a place and ALL 3 permutations begin with "THE", so (generally):

If you're refering to something about a person, think "THE heIR" and write "their".

If you're refering to a place, think "THE heRE" and write "there".

If what you're actually saying is "They are", use the contraction, "They're".

See, it's easy!

===========================================

[Edit: Sorry, it just gets to a person after a while :(]

-Triane

[SegZavier]

Originally posted by Lurchy

There is a gal on Morningthaw that is 122 (last i seen her) that has Unarmed Combat trained. You think she earned those levels? It takes her 50 swings to kill an Olthoi Mutilator. Judging by her no specialized weapon template, I'd say she has no clue on some of the dynamics of the game. A long time ago, lets say 2 years, if you or I ran across a level 122, we probably both would have been in awe. The level 122 could have told us many things about the game, showed us many weapons, quest items, how to get somewhere, what monsters not to fight.


How long has she been playing?

I know of a couple people who have been playing for 3-4 years and don't care about how things work, they just care about enjoying themselves.

They don't care what other people are doing as long as they are enjoying the game they are fine with what is going on around them.


Apparently you only care what others are doing, and how others play.

:confused:

Oh well Have Fun.

[Honest John]

Honest John is one of, if not the oldest character, on FF, yet he is only level 82. I play to have fun and find leveling is a side effect to that. I suppect my level is not far off what they had in mind for teh average character that has been around since the start. That just goes to show you how badly level inflation has been :-(
(and yes, I do have higher level characters, 8 all 80+ and 2 over 90) I could easly have been 126 years ago, if all I did was powerlevel, even without chains or macros

Honest John : You were born on 10/31/99 16:51:25.

I know how to play the game as well as almost anyone, yet I choose to have fun doing a lot of things besides standing around killing the same old thing over and over. I could care less how someone else plays as long as they let me do my thing. Yet, by some folks standards, I am a noob because I am not 126 or higher. Well, if you wish to equate everthing to level, then that is your problem, not mine. You play your way and I will play mine. Just learn to look beyond the surface. Anyone who blows Honest John off because hes not level 126 is missing out on a fine player who loves to have fun, is a very good quest partner, and will help anyone at the drop of a hat. I can play the game, not just rack up XP. Leveling is a fine goal, but not one for everyone.

Some of you really need to learn more about someone before you discount them simply because of level. There can be so much more to the game, if you want it.

[Honest John]

Oh, speaking of macroing. I saw my first UCM player in Beta 1. At the time, we were more amaized that they figured out how to do it, than think that they were cheating. Macroing has been around almost since day one. People can moan and groan and cry for it to be baned, but it will always be with us in some form. That may not make all macroing right, but your fighting a loosing battle if you think you can ban all macroing. Its much better to try to reduce the need for it by improving the game. People macro because they are lazy or because they find some aspect of the game boring but nessecery. You cannot do anything about the former, but you can about the latter.

[Lurchy]

John,

There is always an exception to the rule. You have 8 characters over level 80+? Great. Do you think the level 122 character with the trained UA might have 8 characters over 80? Doubtful, considering I talked to the person while I was in a fellow for a bit.

Thats what Im getting at though John. A long time ago, the low level characters would have looked up to you and been in awe. Today those same low level characters are all level 150+ers.

Do alot of them have the knowledge that you claim to possess? Doubtful.

Maybe you like taking a 126er on a quest and leading him through, but wouldn't it be more appropriate for the 126 to lead the 80-90 ?

[Ailleurs]

Originally posted by Honest John
.......I could care less how someone else plays as long as they let me do my thing..... Well, if you wish to equate everthing to level, then that is your problem, not mine. You play your way and I will play mine. Just learn to look beyond the surface..........

Some of you really need to learn more about someone before you discount them simply because of level. There can be so much more to the game, if you want it.

This comment works for both sides of the chain issue. Thank you, Honest John. I wish more people would think like you, then there wouldn't be anywhere near as much bickering and BS as there is now.

[Obiwan]

I agree with John and Lurchy. The mentality of people playing games is generaly play win and go on to next neato game. Asherons Call and other morp's suffer due to this sort of thinking towards video games. But we cant fault anyone for that as its rather built into our DNA, so to speak.

For years we played only games that you started and finished and moved on. Mmorpg's came to play and people had to grasp this new concept of a game that never ends.

Its my humble opinion that people still harbor some of that start and finish concept to playing video games. Enter the Macro's. They are created in many situations to give games the features people want and the manufactured wont or can't provide. Combat macro's get created to creat accounts full of max level characters. For some its so they can see all that Dereth has to offer and hence.. end the game, sorta. Others are done in the name of the almighty dollar. Premaxed accounts can bring a pretty penny on E-Bay, respectably. This brings in people that have never experienced what AC and Dereth has to offer in the way of an alternate experience. In some cases.

I have myself scratched my head and wondered about a mid or high level character coming up to me and asking me questions about how to get to towns and what certain items are that have been in the game for years. Im not a total 'anti', as I agree to a point that there are places, in this HUGE world of Dereth, where a UCM can hunt, collect xp, and not bother anyone. On the other hand I think people that UCM are missing out on a great experience, that which is Dereth, and all it has to offer.

I also am an avid fan of the leading macro of which I wont mention here as it may cause this thread to be mislead. I think that much of the macro's this plug has to offer are fantastic and I'd really like to see Turbine take note of what makes this plug so popular and perhaps incorporate some of them permenently into AC. I play a mage and this plug gives me more time to communicate with other players and loot critters with little effort and time wasted IDing each and every piece to know if I want it for salvage, trade or whatever. Not at any time have I wanted to use this plug to UCM. For me,... it isnt what I got into this adverture to do.

As for the new server and the allegiance changes. Well, I think the change to xp passup is to late for the old servers and I think it will be great for the new server or servers to come. Trying to manage a chain created in straight line form is one thing. Trying to manage the number of people it will take to maximize xps with a pyramid of players will be quite another animal and personally I cant see it being worth it.

I've been playing AC for 4 years. I'm not as old as Beta but I have played AC/ACDM only, as far as mmorpg's are concerned. I enjoy teaching and training vassals and friends about how to play AC. I came into AC when many were Noobs themselves and I think our Highest player in our clan was maybe level 60+ or so. I was taught by friends and mentors in a time when so much was yet to be learned.

I'll continue to support Turbine despite the rate hike. Though I have to say a bone tossed our way would be nice. I even plan on subscribing to a 3rd account come July. And who knows by then maybe even a 4th. Im sure my son could use some added pack space as well :) I play in Harvestgain under my great Monarch and good friend Ilea. And my son and I are proud members of one of the oldest clans in HG The Knight of Winchester. Founded by Whek-Tar. We play for the love of the game and will continue to do so. But in all honesty we also pray that Turbines taking over of the AC franchise, is not its downfall as well.

[Mageman]

I've seen many suggestions on the new server and personally, I'd like to see an all-white server. No PK or PKL. I think that PK & PKL distract from the main advantage of the game as us against the world instead of me against everyone else.

[Priest]

Is there anyway to look at alternate pay methods ie: Paypal or something? I have horrid credit and need to find some other means to play...

[Osrik]

I think the fact that I reactivate my account two days ago says it all.

I do not have a problem with the subscription increase as it is not excessive and is the first increase in a long time. If it means that Turbine can afford to do a bit more to enforce the CoC and continue to improve AC1, it is a price that is well worth paying.

As for the new server that is the reason I reactivated my account. The new stricter policy on UCMs and the changes to xp passup made me think about playing again but I was put off by the idea of trying to start a newbie on a server totally dominated by 126+ characters.

I reactivated my account to play around a bit and get the feel for the game again, but am planning to start playing regularly when the new server goes live, which I hope will be soon.

[kittens]

I think Turbine is doing a ok so far i do wish they would make it so there was no assessing so people would quit being rude if you have no patron but i can see the increase the rest i don't mind the trade bot or buff bots or housekeeper cause my typing sux and is easier for me to get to home or lifestone with ir i don't keep spelling ti wrong that way

[phitch]

the new exp. method now. I understand that the new server means that it won't be dominated by just chains. Instead it will be dominated by groups of people who care more about powerleveling than they do about playing. I.E. how long will it take a person to get to level 126 on this server? My guess is that you will see the first 126 within 2 weeks after launch, much faster than the previous servers. Why? Well I won't reiterate too much, but given a group of friends who 1) have a lot of free time 2) Just want to powerlevel 3) are willing to hunt in fellowship and you are talking an easy target.

Lets say 13 people create a guild. 1 person on top and 12 below. Those 13 break off into a fellowship of 7 and 6. (Eventually the monarch will outlevel the others and drop out of fellow, but his goal is to put exp into leader anyway.) Now they go and hunt monsters. Quickly leveling because 6 vs. 1 in AC at low levels is almost a cake walk. Now make it either OG's or melee spec'd UA's (easy to convert later) and now you have a group of very fast levelers. Now, as I said before 12 people reaching level 80 creates a level 126 player. If every person is dedicated to leveling (and since the good content is higher end you are going to want to) you can move pretty fast through this.

Now what about UCM and ACM players? A new server just means less people to catch you doing the act.

The new server, while you may wish to believe will be all candy and ice cream and fun for everyone. All Turbine is doing is giving the powergamers more chances to level and the casual players less of a chance to catch up.

The new server better have the slogan "BYOF" because that's all it's going to be in the end. A lot of fellowships.

I'm still curious how they expect the players to feel when they start seeing DoB and after the patch characters are leveling to 126 in a matter of weeks. I fully expect to see trial runs of this done on the current servers before it takes off on the new one. Since they have until spring to perfect the hunting technique and grounds on which to do this.

[MeTaGarfield]

phitch:

Please.

There are numerous place all over the board that should get you straight on this:

One: This could have been done before. The new passup system makes no difference, except perhaps that leader breakaway is even more pronoiunced.

Two: This only work to promote ONE character, not the group as a whole. Chains helps the group as a whole.

Three: To achieve maximum passup, you have to maximize leadership and loyalty. Under the old system, inital passup was lower but the passthrough at 94% was bought for about 3M exp, on any toon. No, there is a difference betwen 52000 (13 maxed skills, one leadership, 12 loyalty) and 40 (13x3) chain gang opted characters under the old system.

Four: For the 40M exp invested, you got a chain that for every million exp hunted at the bottom, between 6 and 8 million exp is distributed further up the chain, entirely depending on the hunters loyalty skill. Even with maxed skills, there is no way that a hunter can produce more than 1 million exp further up the chain for a hunted million and most of it ends up at the patron (first level).

Five: Why wasn't anyone considering hunting in a fellowship when they were pushing chains? Wait a second. They did. Every time you venture into a decent exp dungeon, there is a fellowship there. Most of the times they will invite you, sometimes they'll say "the fellowship is full, go away" as if they owned the place. But fellowships are the preferred way to increase experience gains from hunting.

I have made lots of calculations, making some well founded assumptions about the system. It is very well possible that you will get less inital passup after patch as you have today unless you have a long term relationship and high loyalty (possible) and leadership (not likely) skills. Don't remember to remove any bonus you have today from a high self.
You will be much closer to 25% than 90% passup after the change, as today you are probably closer to 40% than 10% passup.

As for the new server, no one will have any time bonuses. This today accounts for half the effective loyalty and 18% of the leadership (fraction said to increase). Getting to 30-40% inital passup might be fairly easy, but to get higher you invest exponentially more experience in leadership and loyalty. And remember: 30-40% inital passup is the range we have today for a good pusher (base loyalty 200-250) who has been sworn the required 240 hours in game to their patron.

I'll even summarize it for you:
Old allegiance system: more exp total
New system: less exp total

Old system: Exp divided between many people
New system: patron gets all

Old system: Maximizing leadership easy. Loyalty easy if not hunting.
This means max passthrough very easy for those not hunting.
New system: Leadership and loyalty have no cap.
This means most of the time passup is (relatively) bad even if by level 130 or so you get maxed loyalty.

[Kovich]

Turbine,

[please skip to bottom for the basic point if you don't have enough time to read entire post]

Your new server: A great opportunity to get away from the artificially inflated rate of leveling that some use (chains, buffbots...) on the current servers.

For example: Bob and Susan, two level 5s meet in Holtburg. They become friends. Bob meets Colin, an enthusiastic patron in a big monarchy. Colin introduces Bob to the mansion buffbot and the monarchy chain. Bob asks Colin where he should hunt. Colin says 'well, get buffed up with 7s and go to OHN'.

Later that week, Susan @tells Bob, "Hi there, want to explore? I heard of a starter quest! :)"
Trouble is, Bob is now level 30, whilst Susan is level 8.

The problems are:
1) Bob has missed out on a large amount of the game's content
2) Bob has become addicted to a buffbot ie he feels he cannot play without one
3) Bob has massively out-leveled Susan, and so they can't play together anymore. Susan is now much more tempted to follow Bob's path.


BOTTOM OF POST:

IMO, Buffbots and Tradebots have done just as much to destroy the 'feeling' of AC than chains have.
Please seriously consider making ANY KIND of AFK character activity against the CoC on the new server.

Thanks for reading :)

[Honest John]

Originally posted by Kovich
Turbine,

...Your new server: A great opportunity to get away from the artificially inflated rate of leveling that some use (chains, buffbots...) on the current servers.

For example: Bob and Susan, two level 5s meet in Holtburg. They become friends. Bob meets Colin, an enthusiastic patron in a big monarchy. Colin introduces Bob to the mansion buffbot and the monarchy chain. Bob asks Colin where he should hunt. Colin says 'well, get buffed up with 7s and go to OHN'.

Later that week, Susan @tells Bob, "Hi there, want to explore? I heard of a starter quest! :)"
Trouble is, Bob is now level 30, whilst Susan is level 8.

The problems are:
1) Bob has missed out on a large amount of the game's content
2) Bob has become addicted to a buffbot ie he feels he cannot play without one
3) Bob has massively out-leveled Susan, and so they can't play together anymore. Susan is now much more tempted to follow Bob's path.


BOTTOM OF POST:

IMO, Buffbots and Tradebots have done just as much to destroy the 'feeling' of AC than chains have.
Please seriously consider making ANY KIND of AFK character activity against the CoC on the new server.

Thanks for reading :)

But no one made Bob powerlevel past that content. And, he can always make a new character and expereince anything he wants, then powerlevel up so he can enjoy content with his higher level friends.

In fact, I would argue that the quick powerleveling actualy makes it EASIER to expereince lower level content. I can create a character, explore all the low level stuff I want, and then either start over or powerlevel the current chartacter to "catch up" With the buff bots, and not fall way behind my friends.

I have a CHOICE. I can play at a slow pace with some characters and enjoy the richness of the game at one level and still know I can rush a character to a higher level to enjoy that content. Without the buff bots, etc, I would have to choose to either get someone to help me power level so I can play at that level or plod along. I would have to concentrate my limited play time in one character and miss out on the other. With them, I get a CHOICE.

Its not the bots that ruin the game, its the mindset that you HAVE to use them to hurry up the levels. Its the preception that the only good content is the "uber" stuff. And, keep in mind there are very few "real" new players. How many times do I have to go through the training hall? Been there, done that. If I start a new chracter now, its either specificly to enjoy some content I by-passed before or its to play a new class. Maybe I want to rush to level 30, so I can do something at that level. I can do that in a few hours of play now, with the help of a buff bot. I can do this as much as I want, without consuming large amounts of my limited playing time.

Even when an expansion is released, unless you can chage the perception that under level 126 is for wimps, people will want to PL to catch up with those super players. Unless the mechanics of the game FORCE people to slow down, many people will feel they have to rush to"win"

The new server will NOT stop powerleveling. There will be a BIG rush among the super competive players to be the first to 126 on the new server. The changes to XP passup will change some of the dynamics, and may slow things down slightly, but it will NOT stop powerleveling. As long as people feel they have to be "best", or "win"or#1, what ever the heck that is , there will be people who will push the limits of the game to get there.

The handwriting was on the wall the day Turbine decided to cave in to the very vocal, but at that time, limited number of "uber" players and push out lots of high level content. And I can understand the desire at the time to not loose players. But if Turbine had stuck with the plan and slowly released this content, they would have forced people to either quit or slow down. The super competive players would have moved on and the rest would have played the game as it was intended. People would have learned to play slower because there was no value to rushing to the top.

If I was designing things, I would do things like, have caps on dungeons. Anyone cna get in, but if over a specific level, you get no XP while in that dungeon. I would have lots of non-XP rewards, unique looking items, titles, etc for different levels so you HAVE to stay in a level range long enough to complete all the parts. IDing a player would show their proression through different multi level quests that hav etimers between each part so

This is one area EQ has done well. They have slowly raised the level cap. They have kept their player base hungry for those expansions. Players have not quit because they were capped out. They keep their accounts going because they know more is coming. I hope Turbine has learned a great deal about this and will keep tight control on their new projects. Level 20 in D&D should take a LONG time to get to. Don't blow it.

If I was designing things, I would do things like,
1. Have caps on dungeons. Anyone can get in, but if over a specific level, you get no XP from anything in that dungeon.
2. Have lots of non-XP rewards, unique looking items, titles, etc for different levels so you HAVE to stay in a level range long enough to complete to get them all.
3. IDing a person would show a brief resume of all the quests they have completed. Make it a bragging right. Imagine this" Your level 126? Big deal. you only completed "x" quests. I am only level 70, but i have 5 times as many quests as you."
4. Assign quest values to quests and give rewards at specific numbers of points. By having timers for repeating quests, you keep people from just doing the same ones over and over unless you stay in that narrow levle range
5. Have multipart quests that have timers between each part so you cannot do them all in one day. Have narrow level progression for each part so people have to not rush in order to get all the parts and the reward at the end.
6. Make the low level quests as valuable to those levels as the high ones are to high level players and people will be less likly to rush
7. An item you can only get before level 10 that is weak at the begining but has improvment quests at different levels that gradualy improve it to an uber, non-drop, non-give item. Have timers and level caps between each improvment quest so they cannot be done if you powerlevel too fast. But make them real good so people will not want to rush. Give them not only great powers, but unique features that players can choose at each improvment like color, shape, inscription, etc.

And on and on. I know some of this may not be possible with the tech, but they are all examples of how you can give people reasons to not rush.

[Umox II]

From what i have heard..the AC franchise wasn't making an acceptable profit(if any) under Microsoft.

Turbine must have BIG plans for this game to buy a failing franchise back.

Im sure the general cost of running AC has now fallen since the move from Microsoft.(common sense...only 1 set of staff...even if it is a bigger set than before and only one company taking the subscription fees and game sales)

Anyway back to my point, i think you are gonna see major improvements to the game and turbine must know they can make a profit out of it, otherwise they wouldn't of risked it.

As for all the people cancelling extra accounts , im the new people returning cancels it out somewhat. If it doesn't, i wonder how many will reactivate those accounts after the expansion comes out ;-)

[boneyard]

turbine doesnt care that much about a profit i think, its mainly about getting there baby back and being able to nurse it like they want it to. i doubt it will cost them less money to run it then it did microsoft.

[Kachina]

I hope some of the new fee hike will be used to reduce major lag issues. I would much rather lag be fixed than have fancy new graphics that might make the game unplayable for me. I am on slow dial up, and there are already many quests I cannot do due to lag. :( Want me do more content? Easy Kill the lag in those quests. :cool:

:mad: Lastly, I greatly resent those who would dictate how I play AC. I use third party apps a lot, AC Explorer, Decal and many of its plugs add to the game. Truth is to much of the trade/tinker/salvage skills are a real bore. Buffing has also reached a level boredom that has made the buffing programs, be it a buff bot or a self buff plug in, the most popular third party app used to enhance the game. If you don't like decal, don't use it, but don't tell me or anyone else how to play our game! ( as long as no one is griefing etc) :cool:

[Usamare]

I know that it's probably impractical, but how about a super discount bundle rate that would allow for access to AC1 or AC2 at a cost that would be much lower than having a subscription to both?

The reasoning for me is fairly simple. I have AC2 but will probably never play it because most of my friends play AC1, and i'd rather not pay for both, so i stay where i know everyone:-)

[Strode]

Hmmm. Raising the price before you put out an update to the game? Risky? AC was a value at 9.95. Having just come back to AC, that is a hard pill to swallow.

[phitch]

Sony is offering a bundle deal.... 21.95 Gets you access to EQ, EQ2 and EQ:OA(PS2 game). That's 22 dollars for 3 games, two of which are 12.95 deals. If Sony can do it, so can Turbine and it would bring life back to AC2 as well.... okay, maybe.

[Ibn]

Once we take over billing for the game, we may have the flexibility to do different things with billing such as a combo offer or multi-month payments, things like that. These are all things that are being investigated, but I can't promise any of them.

[johnny_lie]

Originally posted by Ibn
These are all things that are being investigated, but I can't promise any of them.

WooHoo! Happy to hear it.
Thanks for the feedback.

:D

[Radeghast]

Not surprised about the price increase, more surprised it hasn't happened earlier.

[Meow the Great]

I am happy with this move, because of a new server my friends and I will be coming back thats atleast 4 more accounts being payed for and 12.95 is still cheap for one of the best games out there. (Ive played all the others and still continue to look at the news of this game though stopped playing here and there.)


Hopefully we will see more servers when/if they can release ACDM or the new expansion pack. Great job Turbine.

[Prosonic]

Ive been with Ac 1 since beta one, seen it all come and go said nothing now i feel that the game is back in the rite hands some changes are needed and seem to be taking place but more are needed.

The new server is a Great Idea for getting old time hard done by players back in the game but think about it is the cost of a server cluster really worth it hell the load balancing units alone are 9k+ per item, im sure we will see a flood of players rush in for housing from other worlds and maybe some start overs, but really total server capacity now seems to me at about 45% peek as I recall stress testing for turbine the servers on original spec could handle 2000 clients with out problems, peek times we are seeing 900-1000 clients? doesnt really justify a new server when current worlds aren’t full you need new copy’s of ac being sold with fresh players to fill the current servers not just another 45% world.

What i would like to see in the new server is no buff bots, bring back the days when people used to communicate with other players for things they needed not just run dam scrips/plugins those days for me were the best in ac seeing the ISO calls in sub etc people going to towns for portals off other players because they had the best chance in town x of someone having a tie to location y etc.

As for the expansion pack i think going to double the res isn’t the answer just because you want to stay compatible with people that wont upgrade, do you think they will pay a larger sub cost if they wont pay for a bigger 3d card come on seriously a 2nd hand geforce 2 I can go to the movies for the same price.

Sure go double res and colour depth but fix what holds the dev team back also, like upgrade the physics engine and quest script engine to do the things the devs say hold them back maybe a new gui apart from brown. eax support with higher poly count, lets face it voodoo 2 days are over you need to add shine and sleek lines back into ac 1 new skins just wont do the trick.

Im sure some of the readers are thinking well why not just go to ac2 well sure i have my sealed copy (had to get it off eBay as Microsoft Australia don’t sell it to my wholesalers any more) what keeps me in ac 1? Two things my friends and the way ac 1 works i can solo as im not on in prime time (Australia) and i can under stand and plan the skill system.

To level with u guys (turbine) please don’t do another bandaid fix we had micro$oft for that, u know it too the devs had to work under the same restraints issued by them, its your baby now if its worth doing as you lead us to believe please do it rite.

Pro

[Autumna Oakford]

If I may say the announcement of the new server could have done with a more approximate date than 'spring'

The ammount of speculation is crazy right now, with people already trying to recruit for monarchies that may not exist for several months.

Would it be possible to get an idea of which month the server will go online ?

[Merlinian]

I have been playing AC since January of 2001, with two accounts and two players in our household, actually three accounts for a while.

The price hike is not really an issue, AC1 is still the best game out there for us because of the soloability of the content. After LFG for 2+ hours in FF XI the graphic advantage does not really matter anymore.

I would like to see something though done by Turbine which for me has always been the major grief with AC: the MS ZONE. That was the reason we quit AC for FF XI because we like to play together and iw recked countless hours, several home-network setups and one Ethernet card trying to play AC via the zone on a router.

It just does not work for us.

So if Turbine switches away from MS, PLEASE get rid of the ZONE ****. The zone will BTW be the reason I will not even consider loooking at "Mythica" the new MS product in the making.........

Thanks,


Tokugawa the Mage
Battlemage at Leafcull

[Shaz]

Merl -

They have said millions of times that they will be switching to their own launcher.

It takes TIME. They haven't even check'ed the first 5 items off the checklist. There's probably like 100 items on the checklist.

Shaz

[Asun]

Ok answer these questions and you'll make my life a lot easier.

1) Why is there going to be a new server?

Obviously its not for overpopulation considering the most ive seen online all at once didnt even break 10,000. It doesnt seem logical to burn money to create a new server when on average each servers populations doesnt even exceed 1000 clients. Furthermore making a new server costs money, and maintaining that server also costs money. You shoudl really infest the money on graphics

2) Is there even going to be a graphics update? if so, what are the specs?

Ive read thru roughly 8 pages of replies regarding the new server and price increase, and many of them mention "no" or "minor" graphics update... so whats it going to be? People have been saying that there hasnt been a graphics update because this game has very low requirments in order for it to funciton properly. Well heres something you peeps at turbine should know. When AC first came out i had a P2 400mhz, i think, that was about 4 yrs ago. Have you guys at turbine been paying a attention as to what kind of hardware people are playing on these days? P4 3.2 ghz, radeon 9800, 2 gigs of ram, thigns 4 yrs ago would be considered unimaginale. you have to realize that many people have computers that have exceeded the requiremnts to run ac 100 fold.

On the minor note, for the people that have outdated machines I apologize

I am still willing to pay the additional $3 for only one reason, Gameplay, all the other games lack gameplay, and for that i am a loyal customer, but if theres a price hike i expecti to see changes, not only to allegaince chains, i expect to see improvements in graphics and other aspects.

[sylphia]

(1) The new server is for folks who want to start "on even footing". The ones who wish to "compete" for levels can start at ground zero without trying to play catch-up against the chain-machines.

(2) Turbine has released very limitied info on this, because its still in the "what do we want to do with this?" stage. They HAVE said it will be roughly quadruple the qulaity of our current graphics. They have said it will be approximately halfway between current and AC1 and AC2 graphics.

I am on a near top-of the line machine now, myself, and I only hope that the new expansion comes out before THIS system is considered outdated :-P

[MeTaGarfield]

My current gaming machine is this:

3D Blaster GForce3 Ti 200.
1 GHz AMD <el-cheapo variant>
256MiByte memory
10 GByte hard drive.

It was a decent budget system when I bought it in May 2002, apart from some problems with the graphics card fan it has worked like clockwork.

It was more than enough to handle AC back then, but I do experience lag now with settlements and running towards Arwic. Candeth keep is a pain, the download of the textures to the graphics card alone takes maybe 5-10 seconds, and then dragging items to sell them (or for salvaging) has enough lag to be stress inducing, especially if I face that tree.

Now, the problem is, if I had to buy a brand new machine (not even top of the line) to keep playing the game I am not sure I could actually afford it (not to mention the agony of buying a new PC for gaming purposes today).

Not everyone, especially among AC players, will keep their system on the cutting edge of gaming technology all the time.

So the question is, where to draw the line?

Before you do more graphics updates, make sure everyone gets a say on this.

Preferably by adding a poll to the game startup screen with the following alternatives (or something to that effect):

Would you buy a new computer to keep playing AC if new system requirements demande it?
Y/N

Would you be prepared to upgrade your graphics card or CPU?
Y/N

Would you buy more memory?
Y/N

Could you please check this box to upload information about your current system? (insert details here about just checking graphics card, CPU, memory, motherboard and whever else is important)
Yes of course.

SUBMIT (only once per account)

No polls on the boards will do, no email polls. Bring this right up to the face of people as they log in.

Then looking through this mess would be a pain, like checking what motherboards can be upgraded and to what level (at a reasonable cost).

For a long-standing game, sure, upgrading your machine every 3-4 years is ok I guess (to me at least). Every 3 years if you look for budget options (like me) and every 4 years if you buy a top-of-the-line gaming monster.

[Jess The Great]

12.95 isnt anything to me, especially since this game is my main form of entertainment and i use it 5+hours a day.

[sylphia]

Here is a comparative analysis of both systems. This is the first article of at least 2 I intend to write:

http://forums.ac.turbinegames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1343

[Tone]

Ok Ill start off by saying im a 4year+ loyal Ac player. I dont take sides I see alot of things wrong with turbines Actions and ALOT of the players actions.


1: This whole buff bot thing its ok no1 wants to sit there and click spells all day But in addition to the hunting bots I think that is killing the game slowly. More people are just trying to be the highest. Human Contact is barely needed in The game With all the bots.

2: Graphics, If I'ts possible get new better graphics Maybe an option to Have completely different graphic settings would be good. Since I've Been playing AC I have been using the same computer...sadly i still am LoL...but i would GLADLY buy a new one if AC got a good graphics update.

3: New server. i Think everyone agrees this is a bad idea. The way I see it all the servers are about 45% full all the time A new server would mearly divide the population of all the servers. If The new servers had something distinct and new about its still no that good of an idea. Darktide is the only PK server. I see no reason in having More than 2 anti servers. But its too late to go back on that...that would cause massive problems. But Dont go on Continuing To make the same mistake...Divide more population.

4:AC2...It kind of flopped. This is completely my opinion Im open to everyones so reply if you want. The graphics were absolutely great. But What killed it completely for me was the skill system. The thing that made Ac great for me was the extensive player creating. Soo many skills and before templates came along Noone had the same character unless they used the games templates. And When playing AC2 i felt the feeling of lonelyness. There was no reason for people to go in town so everyone was out in the beautifull world by themselves. And Pk'ing....The best part about killing another player is PHAT L3W7...haha it has to be spelled in L337

5:Expansion pack..Great idea no question there

So in closing A new server is a bad idea..atleaste untill the games original 8servers fill up atleaste 80%. Anti servers are favored over darktide...But who needs 9 of them. Stick with the original servers Or once the expansion is out Try advertising more get alot of new people to come onto the game. Then once You see a dramatic increase in server population THINK About adding a new server


I love AC it is by far my favorite game of all time. I may be wrong but i feel Turbine is listening to the players and just nodding to our ideas...If this is true try our ideas that are expressed between alot of people. If anyone knows how to keep a game going its the people who have been playing for a chapter of their life...4years 1QTR Of my life yea im young =\ So if you want to make a good attempt listen to the people who havent given up on you.


-----------Tony

[Hand Sum]

There are a number of ways to make a fee increase more acceptable to all the long term players, none of which seem to be in the works.

1) Discount for purchase of multiple months of playtime in advance.

2) Discount for multiple accounts. Reward the guys that are fanatics!

3) Additional player slots per world. (7 would be nice.)

4) Additional storage space. (an extra chest, or maybe make those foci pack items instead of taking up a full pack slot)

5) Definitely confirm there will be an expansion pack, with content and improved graphics. We'll keep paying if it's going to finance improvements, and with a definite target date!!

6) Consider starting the new world without any 3rd party apps. As much as I hate the thought of manual buffing, it would be worth it to kill all the scams that go with 3rd party programs that abuse the game rules. I bet a lot of people would be willing to give a no-decal world a shot, if everyone was playing without all the extras.

I've been playing from the 2nd month the game was out, and I'd love to see better graphics, and less lag. Do that, and I'll be happy to pay your price increase!

[Griftwic]

over all it will be good that turbine has taken back ac1 but i would just like for them to realize that i play on MT i dont need another server unless this one gets all messed up.There are some things wrong but nothing drastic in my opinion. by the way anyone seen any of my old friends from the baishi meeting hall?

[Julian's Touch]

Ibn, i was wondering if you could give us the number of the actual total accounts on Asheron, or if it's not possible.

[MIdnightFire7]

Wow this thread is long. Took forever to read it all from pg 1.

Price increase is alright with me, but I only have one account so a few bucks isnt gonna hurt me much. If I had more then one account it would be a problem.

New server... I dont see the point in a new server.

Xp passup....Will hurt Alleginces who's Monarchs take time for their smaller members.

well thats all i have to say for now.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

Luminescent: A new server is pointless, unless u can give me a good idea for it?

Welp, how about so they can properly monitor how people progress without all the benefits of the old system, where all other servers are currently packed with level 200+ characters, that all got there on the backs of the enormous XP Chains.

Also, All other servers had the same low level content in starter towns, and they'll be able to see how well all new characters (the Pioneers of the new server) that have absolute zero when they first log in, fare in getting along fighting level 20+ stuff almost right off the bat.

I can tell you now that there's going to be mass deaths for people at the beginning, unless you choose to kill rabbits and skulkers until you're level 10+.

No uber armor, no decent weapons, and no buffbots casting 7s right from day one will mean you won't see anyone approach Olthoi Arcade and places like it, until at least level 15+.

Try and see the BIG Picture before saying there's no point to a new server, because there's a lot more reasons for it, than not. ;)

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

What is it with people complaining about LAG? The meaning of the word does describe what your complaints are based upon, but what the actual problem is, is called Packet Loss which is a derivative of Packet Switching! What is Packet Switching?

Data Transmission Technique: the process of transmitting and routing data in the form of packet segments sent rapidly and sequentially over a channel that is occupied only during the actual transmission of data.

So now we know what LAG is. We should now also know that Turbine/MS cannot control it, since it varies on each individual's connection; 56K/Cable/DSL or whatever you connect via. Your Internet Service Provider (ISP) plays a key role in how much LAG you experience in-game. The various routers that your ISP connects to (that they sometimes switch between for best connections when a bottleneck occurs) greatly affects the handshaking you will experience in-game.

There's SO many factors to consider when you complain of Laaaaaaag, that have absolutely nothing to do with the game or the server it's run on, it's astounding to even think of them all.

Just remember. In 95% of the cases, your Packet Loss was generated by your specific and individual/personal connection. Not Turbine/MS. So stop blaming them for something that they have NO control over.

Sheesh! :rolleyes:

P.S. Any/Every Online Game has Packet Switching problems. It's a fact of life while connected to the Internet. Get used to it! :o

[sylphia]

LAG is defined by the player community as any time I am running through an area and i feel like I have a rubber band tied betwen my ass and a tree, or anytime I tell my toon to do something and he responds with "Oh you mean NOW?".

Now that we have THAT established: YOu are never going to sell me on the theory that the problem is on MY end when I have a top of the line comp, high speed RAM, 2 Gig processor and Cable connection. Add to that the fact that nearly every time I experience what PLAYERS call lag, everyone around me, in DIFFERENT parts of the real world are experiencing it. They arent all riding MY net connection. Or when a vassal sensd me a tell from monkey lassel and I am in a bug dungeon somewhere, asking if I just had a real bad lag spike--and I did, at the same time he did.

The problem isnt on our side of the net; its server side, and much of it is due to (1) Housing and (2) the fact that players are spread all over the island now, looking for a private spot to hunt, which makes more of the game's servers have to stay active and creates a higher workload for them. Its the same problem that has plagued DT for years.

[Hand Sum]

There was a response stating that there was a good reason for a new server, and pointing out how it would remove the borderline cheats players use to powerlevel. Nice concept, but wrong. Having been here since there were 4 worlds and DT, I've seen new worlds added. That world of innocence you describe lasts about 2 days before players have powerlevelled themselves up to where they are on other servers. Players who have been at this for a while know how to maximize xp in the shortest space of time, with or without the bots, and if you know how to do it, the uber loot doesn't take long to come. The comments about lag all being player side are just plain silly. I play from the west coast of Canada, and I can be hunting with people from the SE US, or even as far off as New Zealand, Australia or England, and we are all hit with the same lag at the same time. There is absolutely no way that we are all being routed through the same points, so unless there is a bottleneck that everyone is forced through somewhere close to the source, that argument just doesn't hold water. Now perhaps if they located servers in various locations, and the problem was shown to be reduced for some, then I would believe the issue existed outside the servers themselves. And frankly, if they don't choose to have multiple locations for the servers, they'll never find the bottleneck if it isn't in the servers. It's gotta be either a server issue, or an issue somewhere very close to the servers that all player data gets routed through. Besides, AC1 and 2 have lag issues that other games just don't seem to have as often. So you can give us definitions for lag if you like, but it doesn't change the issue- no matter where we as players live, and even with hi-speed connections and kickass computers, we experience packet loss, long ping times, and yellow and red connections FAR TOO OFTEN for a game that is 4 years old. That player side excuse wore out about 3 years ago.

[Boxes]

I like the new server because there won't be some of the major problems that happened in AC over the last year or so.

[Khorps]

How about only 1 character slot on the new server?

It would keep people from hoarding everything.
Stuff would show up in the shops, people would visit the towns for shopping, trade skills would be worth something (since everyone wouldn't have a fletching/alchemy mule), allegiances would be more attractive for people to join (to get access to hand-me-down loot).

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

I guess you somehow overlooked the following, or maybe never read it:

Just remember. In 95% of the cases, your Packet Loss was generated by your specific and individual/personal connection.

It was written this way to show you that YES, the game servers can also cause Packet-Loss or a Lag Spike (as you call it). But for the most part, it's caused by your connection.

The way you describe it, you make it sound like everytime you experience "Lag", that everyone does on the server. This is just not so. The larger percentage who experience Lag, ask their friends, and are told "My connection is good here, your ISP must suck". Ever heard that? I hear it more often than your complaint.

Even if you had a 2000 TerraHertz CPU with 500 Terrabytes of Super-Duper Hi-Octane RDRAM, and an OC48 Connection, you'd STILL experience Packet Loss, generated from you to the server, and then from the server back to you.

It's inevitable. You cannot win. We never will. There's only ONE way to experience zero lag, and that's to be sitting at the actual server console, playing the game. Apart from that you will ALWAYS have Packet Loss.

I know it's hard to accept, but it's the truth. People from other parts of the real world, are even more susceptible to this problem. The further away you are, means the more hops (connections) you need to make to get to the Zone Servers. That alone creates more Packet Loss.

Here's how it looks. Your Cable Modem connects to your ISP, your ISP connects to their router, which connects to various backbone routers, and then from there... a journey of multiple connections occurs, until it reaches the Zone Servers.... then the Zone router connects you to your specific Game Server. You now are in-game and you push the forward movement key. That signal is now confirmed by the server, which goes thru the game code, which now sends it out and back along all those connections to get back to your computer. If any one of those connections is having overload conditions, your signal will get stuck there for a couple nanoseconds or longer before it hits the next connection in-line. So for every thing that you do, the signal has to travel a pile of various and often unstable connection sites, and then BACK to you via as many connection sites, before you see the result. I'll stop here, because to go on is pointless.

I said you have to look at the BIG picture here, and not think that because you have a fast computer at home, it should make everything else between you and your destination as fast. It just doesn't work like that, and the sooner you come to terms with this fact, the more enjoyable your gaming experience will be.

Every game has Packet Loss. EveryTHING on the Internet includes some form of packet loss. There's no escape. :confused:

Have a nice day! :cool:

[sylphia]

Fmr, save the preaching.

Its NOT my connection. Its not Bob's connection. Its not Mary's connection. When multiple ppl in game experience lag at the same time, and they live in different parts of the world, its not all of our connections. Lag is an established issue on AC. It has been for years, most noticibly since the introduction of housing. You can try and fob it off on anything else you want, but it wont fly. We KNOW the problem isnt on our ends. And its far too consistent of a problem in this game to be anything else. When I kNOW everytime I try and hunt in a certain area, I will receive patches of lag every couple of minutes, that dont occur else where in the game, its the portion of the game server I am on. When it is backed up by EVERYONE I know that goes to that same area, its the server.

When I am standing in MP and everyone suddenly starts spamming "woah LAGGGGGGG!!!!!!!" I know its not MY connection.

There is something wrongon the game-end of this thing and trying to convince ppl that its NOT on their end doesnt fix it.

[Kesrick]

I've played Horizons for a week now. I cancelled all 3 of my subscriptions to AC tonight.
'nuff said.

[Riverwave]

Haven't read all the post in here. Man, there's a lot! :-)

But, here's my 2p worth.

Price increase. It's been the same price forever. What else has stayed the same price as long? I hate spending more money to play a game, but I understand it. I'll be putting off getting the 4th account I was thinking about, but plan to keep my 3. Personnaly, I think when AL was introduced, that was almost as good as the jump to DM. Was surprised the price didn't go up then.

New World. Well, I say take that server, and use it to give more resources to the housing issue. I still feel that every account in the game should have the ability to purchess at least a cottage (assuming at least one char meets the requirements, and has the asking price :-) I think more villas should be in game, and that all housing should have more storage, and maybe some hook love also. Maybe a few more mansions would be nice too. I know many will disagree, but that's my thoughts on the new server.

Just as an Oh By The Way, I love the game, and look forward to at least 4 more years of AC. I'm saving up for 3 expansion packs now :-)

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

Sylphia, believe whatever you wish..... :p

Some of us actually went to school to understand things that we speak about. Evidentally you figure you know more about it regardless. So.... *shrug*

All the complaining won't change it, and should you decide to go play some other game, you'll find the same conditions therein.

FSF

[sylphia]

Actually, playing other games I do NOT have those issues, nor does anyone else in the house, on any of our computers. If we did, I might consider a possibility that it ISNT AC. Players in AC have been complaining about this for years. Somehow I dont think that your "learned opinion" outweighs the evidence of thousands of players. Believe it or not, a degree does not make you automatically right.

And its already a given that complaining about it wont change it; Turbine has been trying to feed us the same response all along. They apparently find it much easier to try and fob it off on the nebulous "its the net itself" excuse than to fix the problem that is obviously AC-centric.

[Jin Saotome]

I have to agree with Sylphia on this one, from 4 years of AC experiance. My connections kicks...uh, you know. It rocks. I NEVER HAVE LAG. I can fight through hoards of Olthoi without missing a packet, run across Monkey Island without ever rubber-banding.

However for the rare times I DO get lag, 10 other people yell, "Laaaag!" right beside me. These are times out of the blue when I'm in combat with like just 2 creatures, trying to move around in the Marketplace, or when two other people are running along with me somewhere.

This isn't my connection speed, this isn't their connection speed. It's something on the AC Server's side. Fortunatly for me it doesn't bother me much at all. I read here that some people are terrorized by it however, and I feel for them. I was once on Dial-up and knew what it was like trying to fight in OHN....ouch. I could hardly move. The strange lag that hits everyone at once only compunds their pain....that sucks.

[Umox II]

**Sylphia, believe whatever you wish.....

Some of us actually went to school to understand things that we speak about. Evidentally you figure you know more about it regardless. So.... *shrug*

All the complaining won't change it, and should you decide to go play some other game, you'll find the same conditions therein. **


I agree with your definition of lag. But sadly...you must play this game with your eyes closed.

When multiple people experience lag at the same time, in different parts of the world, how can you possibly say it's client side?

Im sure you are right, some of the time it is client side. However, if im in an allegiance hunting fellow, and we all experience lag at the same time(yes...very different parts of the world) then it is definatly server side.

As for experiencing it in other games, you are right. Oddly enough i experienced the same problem in AC2 ;-) although not as nearly as frequent.

Every game lags, AC just seems to do it more than the others.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

Sorry for the rather disturbing ECHO, Jin... but uh, the following line I wrote keep regurgitating itself, and for some odd reason just doesn't wanna stay down:

Just remember. In 95% of the cases, your Packet Loss was generated by your specific and individual/personal connection.

Yep, so... the remaining 5% of time is when there actually IS a problem generated by the AC Server. I never said the servers were perfect. There's always room for error in all hardware.

Anyway, the point is still valid. More times than not, it's your connection, and not the server. More often than not when I experience packet degradation, I ask my friends online and they tell ALL OKAY on their end! Duh.. then I guess it must be MY end, huh? So... I just plod along knowing that in a few seconds all will be fine again, or not. But in whatever case, I'll just have to WAIT for the lines to clear.

I happen to use a Program called Visual Route, Go check out what that software costs, and maybe then you'll understand that I KNOW where the problems are and what causes the "lag".

95% of the time, it's not the AC Servers. ;)

[Meri]

So, what you're saying is... using your spendy little program... you've computed that 95% of the time that YOU experience lag, it's client-side. :)

Since you don't have that same program on Jin's computer or Sylphia's... can we assume that you don't know what their issues are?

I have dial-up (yes, you may pity me at any point)... and I KNOW my lag is mostly client side... but I also KNOW that there's a heck of a lot of server side lag, too. If you play a lot, you even get to where you can tell the difference. I just never bothered to work out the ratio. ;)

[Umox II]

Does that nifty little program allow you to monitor the thousands of AC players internet connections to assume they lag 95% of the time?

Just seriously think about what you are saying.

AC has lag issues, it is so blatently obvious. I don't really care about them, it has never resulted in me dieing(thats because the monsters lag too)..Wait...does that mean...its not the client side lagging? Surely if it was the monsters would kill me while i lag away :-)

Btw i have dedicated servers in florida, kansas, austria, amsterdam and canada.

I know alittle bit about lag and packet loss.

[CharlesTheHawk]

Just a few thoughts from the casual user's perspective, although i certainly don't mean to imply i speak for anyone other than myself. First off, the rate increase isn't that much. Like myself, most casual users would only have 1 or 2 accounts. However, i strongly suspect i'm not the only one who has been debating whether or not to continue with AC, and this could easily be the deciding factor.

The new world means nothing to me. I do well to get an hour or 2 in a week and it took almost 4 years to get to level 50. Why would i want to start over?

Although this topic isn't about the XP chain changes, that greatly affects my decision. I joined an XP chain because my playing time is so limited and i wanted to be able to play with some of the higher content. Heh, i just made it out to Aerlinthe for the first time last month. :D My character leveled from 50 to 72 in just 2-3 months. There's no way i could possibly have played that much, but it has allowed me to do lots of things in the game that i never could have done otherwise. Now, i guess my character is probably stuck at level 72 indefinitely. How can a casual player ever attract vassals? I think i've played pretty much all the lower level content, so there really isn't much more for me to do.

Heh, i probably would have continued to procrastinate making a decision to drop out, but the price increase is a pretty good incentive to make that decision sooner than later.

I may be wrong, but i suspect a lot of casual players will feel the same way. By the very fact that our time is so limited, you don't hear much from the casual players on these forums. Most of us just vote with our pocketbook and i suspect i won't be the only one leaving. I just don't see much point in playing at the same level all the time.

Charles The Hawk

[Nobuko]

I've been playing for nearly 4 years and I have no objection to a subscription price increase. I think we all understand that it takes money to do, not only the monthly development but new expansions as well. That's what keeps a game healthy and alive - without it a game stagnates and steadily loses players.

I'm happy to see AC is a healthy game.

[sylphia]

Oh now this is so cute. 95% of the time that EVERY player in the game over the last 4 years has experienced lag AT THE SAME TIME its been our individual connections, on thousands of different machines all over the real world. The lag we experience in the SAME areas daily, but not in other parts of the in-game world is OUR connection 95% of the time, even though someone else can wander into the same area and experience it. IN four years, with 6 different ISPs, the lag I experience in AC is almost always MY connection. Balogna.

When massive amounts of the player base report lag at the same time, or in the same area, from different parts of the real world, its not our connections. On RARE occaisions, it may be a web-wide problem, but to try and blame it on a source outside of the game 95% of the time, under those circumstances is assinine. If it only OCCAISIONALLY were reported by multiple players, it might be our connections. When it is CONSTANTLY reported as such, its NOT the players; its the server. Or the datacenter. Or THEIR service provider. The point is, its NOT our connections; it IS a problem on AC's side. The longer you try and deny that and blame an outside source, the longer it will be before the issue is resolved. If you continue to insist that it IS something outside of AC, you will lose what little credibility you have.

And if you cant understand the inordinate amount of stress that has been placed on the servers due to housing, especially when Turbine has admitted the primary reason they wont add more storage OR housing is the stress on the servers, then you apparently slept through most of your classes and need to go back for a refresher course.

[Hamlit]

And the more of us long-time customers that they can get rid of and still bring in the same amount of $ through a subscription price increase, the better.

Smaller player-base = less SERVER-based lag.

That's also why I believe they are adding another white server - to further dilute the amount of active players on any one server at the same time. Again, the point is to address the lag.

Unfortunately, as more of us long-term players terminate our subscriptions and move on to other games, there won't be enough left to justify keeping the servers running anyway. =(

[Crucial_Dt]

With all the rollbacks, downtimes, hotfixes, and pushing back the patches, alot of us believe it fair to give everyone 1 free month of game play. Everytime the servers go down or content is pushed back everyone loses what they are paying for. Everyone pays a subscription to play for a month, however, we don't get a month's play out of it. According to the Credit Card companies this can be described as a lack of service which can be refunded to you. Free month givin to us from turbine? or Free month givin to us from the CC companies everytime there is lack of service?

[bobjava]

Well, today's patch disaster is a good argument for a price increase. Hehe

[Cypher300]

No Crucial_DT you are wrong.

The terms and conditions of the zone very clearly state:

"Subscription or membership refunds

Subscriptions and memberships are non-refundable. However, you get a free trial before paying for a subscription or membership, so you can make sure that you can access the game and enjoy playing it before you pay."

It doesn't say "unless there is an outage," or "if there are roll-backs," or even "if people complain too much."

My suggestion to you when you pay for anything: Read the terms of the agreement. Non-refundable means non-refundable.

Alska

[Imus]

I play this game because I love it and the many good people I now call my friends. There is an expected evolution in all things, however there has to be a balance. Most of the better companies EARN the business thru exceptional product and customer service. I have seen both diminish in the Past 4+ years I have played, however I must say there has been an effort to improve content. Now that Turbine can chart it's own course I would put forth this CHALLANGE !
EARN our loyalty and justify the cost increase, be truthful and consistent, alas I remember the promise of additional storage, and let us feel good about spending our EARNINGS with Turbine, after all any sucessful business knows and understands that they will grow and prosper when PEOPLE WANT TO PAY for your product or service. I suspect that your investors understand reoccurring revenue streams, I do, and I am an investor and an old gray bearded business codger !!
I hope to be playing for many more years, however it is up to YOU !

[Korias]

Hah, well, I read the first six or so pages (taking a break from large quantities of homework...*procrastinating*)

I've played this game for five years on and off with my dad, starting back in March of '99 (not exactly five years). Seen lots of things come and go when I haven't been taking a break. I played hardcore for those first two or three years.

I've read enough to see both sides of the fence, and I, just as all the rest of you, have my own opinion.

Chains: After reading Sylvia Brightstar's post about how "the damage has already been done" I whole heartedly agree with her. Sadly, damage control is not nearly effective as having the "protection" set up in the first place. The thing is, perhaps the new server will have two fold effects.

1) (assuming they get the Expansion marketed in time) the new server will allow for all those new people to start fresh, right along with all the veterans of the game.

2) (again with the assumption of the Expansion release) The old servers will be repopulated with new blood so that they can get "uber" items/xp from existing characters.

Granted, both have problems, but nothing ever comes without a flaw in it.

Price increase: Ok, sucks, but hey, I like AC. Three dollars more is not an end to the world.

Graphic Content: About time!!! Woot!

Lag issues: Haha, I remember playing on 56K...and going to subway or AB back when the server populations peaked around 2000+ a night....I remember when I came back from a break from AC to see that the populations had dwindled to 1200 on a good night. I wondered what the hell was going on. I thought the servers were down for an update or something... I miss the good old days of newbery. I can't wait to go to the new server. I just really hope they have the "protection" that they need so they won't have to do "damage control" anymore.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

Korias: Most of what I said was on the lag issue, not so much the chain issue, but any logically thinking person has to agree that until the patch is in place, you cannot state what will be, since you only have the data that was posted, and not what the end result will be.

All these people talking about how they're going to still exploit everything all to heck, you don't think Turbine is reading all of it, and we'll likely see some last minute changes that they'll only tell us about on patch day? Come on... lol

Until the patch is in, it's all just speculation. It won't be the first time Turbine has made an alteration to what they mentioned 2 months prior.

What people should've done if they wanted to exploit, was to keep silent. But because they haven't, Turbine might just surprise you all, and what you thought you were gonna get, will not be anything like what you expect, come patch day.

Wait and see....

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

Meri and whoever else: You can assume anything you want. But if what I experience is 95% client side, and I do play about 12 hours/day (since I'm disabled and retired as a result), it's only logical that everyone else runs into the same issue; because the times that I experience server-side lag that everyone else does, is still only the 5% I speak of. So therefore everyone else won't experience server-side lag unless I also experience same, making what they experienced, client-side.

Makes sense? I hope so. ;)

[Meri]

No Flat... it doesn't...

What you're assuming is that everyone has the same amount of lag.. and that's an erroneous assumption.

Let's say (for the sake of argument) that I average lagging 6 times in 12 hours... but bobjava lags 3 times... and sylphia lags twice. Perhaps 100% of sylphia's lag is server side, which would make 66% of bobjava's lag be server side, and only 16.66% of my lag would be server side.

You see the point? It's not that they experience more server-side lag than you do, but perhaps they have less client-side and therefore, it's more noticeable? ;)

[Umox II]

or that not all of the world lags at the same time? ;-)

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

That works also Meri! :)

But all it then says is that when these people are online, is when those "server-side" lag experiences occur, but that they don't occur more often overall. If it's server-side, it has to lag everyone on the server at the same time, so the percentages remain the same for all, not just for some.

[Umox II]

Fmr...

have you ever been running in the middle of nowhere and seen monsters spawn as you run past? Thats because the world is so big not all of its loaded at the same time. KInda like zones.

So i think its fair to assume that some zones will lag when others dont?

Like if the marketplace lags....you in the OHN may not lag.

[Spike Lady]

This is good news to me.

IN MY OPINION:

Subscription Increase:

Alot of the people who are getting pissed off at the price increase are the multiple account holders. I have 2 accounts and will never have more than 2. I'm not worried about an extra $6 a month. Most of the people who are not worried about it are the 1-2 account holder types.

Also, to those multiple account holders: Why do you have soooo many accounts? Do you really need 25-30 characters? You know that you can only play 1 at a time as it is. Is it so that you can chain your own toons together and combine that with UCMing to really get a bunch of high level toons? Are you also the type of people who chain up an account of high level toons to then sell on ebay?

I have 2 accounts and 10 toons for the sole purpose if a mild mini-chain AND the ability to do secure transfering of items between my toons.

With the upcoming changes to the patron/vassal exp passup, things will need to be changed.

I personally think it's a good thing.


NEW SERVER:

This is going to be great. I will probably take my 2 accounts and create 10 toons on this new server. I will put them into a correct setup and have my serveral playable toons.

The biggest thing is that there won't be hundreds of lvl 126+ toons running around. Hell, on WE, I know for a fact that there are a few 240+ lvl peeps running around. All because of UCMs and chains. Eliminate the chain part and the UCMs become less productive, thus giving the majority of players a better world to play in.

Unless they completely eliminate the UCMs, there will always be those that want to abuse the system. BUT, it will not generate dozens of additional high level toons that have spent maybe 1 hr in game. It will take ALOT of work to get ALOT of high level toons.

Think about it.

[AC-Vet]

well....were to begin....lets break it down:

Turbine gets control back of a 4 year old game....
Turbine wants more cash for playerbase.....
Turbine wants new player base....
Turbine wants new server....
Turbine wants new expansion
Turbine wants CoC enforcements / 3rd party app's ended
Bordom and Long lasting life? not a good combo



Ok lets address some things,

The Game is 4 years old !!! It's been a leveling game for nearly 3 years now!! Why? because the clasic theme of questing and adventure and storyline was some how lost in the shuffle....there wasn't enough done to keep people intrested for 30 days...so we became a leveling game....then 3rd part apps came to issue, thus making it easier to level and less annoying to do it the right way...it made the game play alot easier....why was these 3rd party apps so popular? because it provided things that should of been included by the developers in the game itself....i don't mean the macro's for leveling....buffing utilites, extended radar, loot scanning, and yes even a salvage utility...and navigation aid...ok now, as all this developed over the years, the creators of 3rd party app's have become a charished thing with in the player base....I for one hated standing around for a entire day making arrows so i could hunt for 1 week...yuck!!! I would of much rather been solving a quest or hunting with friends...ok so the game continues for several years like described above....

Now you buy it back because it is the best role playing game out there....It's a good idea....what you do with it from here on will determine wether you fail or bought a lemon or succed....after 4 years of doing nothing but trying to reach my goal...with basically the same critters over and over...I'm bored !!!! The change to Caul was a positive step forward, was something new but not really, same kind of critters, the EXP is ok....loot it kind of on the lite side..so it basically don't draw my intrest too much.....The reward introduced was Lame...who cares about another house item or extra mule baggage....other than that, was not alot of FUN introduced again, that would sway me to get out of my leveling mode to start questing and adventuring again.....so now there the big debate on how the exp pass up works...yup its screwed up and has been for 4 years...so why fix it now when for 3 years the players have used it to take up the slack were adventuring and questing was left out...and used it to level driving the game forward....I don't mean UMC...thats a COC issue that has failed!!! you don't police up reports of players abusing the COC...
So on to this new server issue, It's been a US against THEM for a long time...ppl that want it one way, and others that just use whats already there.....ok this is a sticky situtation....how do we introduce a new server with a expansion pack to draw in new and old players thus increasing $.$$$.$$$....well you definatly don't want to loose your current subscribers...so don't tick them off...the ones that have been whinning for change for years can go to new server and start over....I for one will not start over!! I would much rather break the CD and find a new addiction...You need to really apply some thoughts on how you are going to handle this....it will be too late to live by hind sight is 20-20...when you loose a large amount of player base because of half want it this way, half the other....then factor in new subscribers....what do u plan here? how exactly do intend to draw intrest back into a 4 year old game? a expansion pack? well its a start but not enough!!!If I remember right ACDM was 20 bucks, it got me to be able to visit 1 lil dang island on a world so large...wasn't enough done with expansion worth me paying the extra 20 bucks for it...I hope the new expansion isn't so restricted and lame...I for 1 will not buy it, if it doesn't address alot of clean up issues and create some excitement back into the game....look at AC2...AC1 was a totally rocking money maker...you just dreamed of the $$ you could get from AC2, well, the changes you made to the game verses AC 1 should of showed you that you was on the wrong track for what the player base wanted......I suggest opening up some old dungeons and dragons books get a few ideas from there, Talk to a hard core DM for ideas, Play diablo for some ideas...what real role players want is a fanasty game that is for adventuring....finding unique items...travinging the land and have a active live communication with another adventurer, seeking out and solving puzzles, and joining together to complete quests or hunts....the structure now is based on the opposite.....join a clan....support that clan....and isolate yourselves from other players....after 4 years of waiting for some real excitment to come out in a patch....I'm still waiting....the quest you introduce ( one or two) if any....only take up about 1-2 days for me to solve...thus I loose intrest for 28 days til next patch is out...whoot...Boring...!!! so for 28 days my goal is to hunt and level....what a drag...then you want to change the system that has been here for 4 years and chase away players that have been leveling toons for years...not good move!!!

Now!!! the price jump....well ya...3 bucks ain't alot..but what is going to keep those multi acct players intrested in AC if you strip the current system? if you think that no biggie...so we loose some accts....well remember this 12 bucks is 12 bucks...take that times ppl with multipal accts closing them...you loose big time...and this new server, you might as well buy a 486 and make a new game and market it...because what your going to end up doing is killing off the paying player base that makes AC what it is today....take alook at available housing....the numbers are falling each day....that means by by cash flow...hello chapter 11....then turbine fades to the back burner like all the rest of the game makers...like diablo...bladers gate...not to mention a few other on line compeditors...you need to be doing it better than them if you want to stay on top the market


Just food for thought and my 2 cents worth.

ya i know its long but had a lot to say....thx

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

No Umox, that counters all other arguments where everyone said that one person can experience lag, and they ask their friend who's on the other side of the map if they experienced lag at that same moment, and they did. This actually does happen, and it does because the AC Server hiccupped etc. That's the 5% that I left open for times when it's not the net that caused your packet degradation, but the server itself.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

Heh... Sorry to use your particular post AC-Vet, but it was inevitable that I'd have to say something concerning all the babble about what should be done, and why so many have this idea that Turbine doesn't have a clue, that they're slitting their throats, that people with multiple accounts are just not gonna stand for it and pull out, etc., etc.

The lines you use, which I see so often from so many people on all the messageboards around, you again summed it up which has prompted me to reply.

after 4 years of waiting for some real excitment to come out in a patch....I'm still waiting....

You've waited 4 years, just like everyone else who complains of same, yet you continue to wait. Why?

the quest you introduce ( one or two) if any....only take up about 1-2 days for me to solve...thus I loose intrest for 28 days til next patch is out...whoot...Boring...!!!

So if it's boring, and you figure the other 28 days are a waste? Why are you still here after 4 years of it?

Simple.... it's still the BEST game out there, and the proof is that for all the games that have been released after AC came out, the vast majority of the "bored ones" who couldn't take AC anymore.... all came back anyway! SWG was supposed to be the BIG one that was gonna pull everyone away... well, I personally know a half dozen who left for it, and are again back in AC. Now Horizons has lured many away. Judging from the past 4 years and the half dozen games that pulled a lot away from AC, I'd have to venture a guess they'll be coming back from Horizons also, before too long.

Face it, you can't leave because AC is just TOO good, even with its 2D graphics in a mock 3D environment. Imagine what AC will be like with an upgraded fully 3D rendered engine? lol... you'll be a prisoner for life.

Turbine knows this already... so they can make any changes they wish, because they KNOW people who talk about pulling out, are, for the most part, just "talking". Actions speak louder than words, and up to now, all I've ever witnessed from people are "words".

You know what they say..... Talk is cheap.

So, you may say that you're bored, but deep down you're just a prisoner like the rest of us. Even moreso for me. I was an Advocate at start of Retail and shortly after that a +Sentinel (equivalent to current day +Admin). I've seen a lot of things that no regular player has seen nor ever will about this game. I miss those duties dearly to this day, and would accept them back without a second thought if given the opportunity. But even if I never get that chance, Asheron's Call is STILL #1 for me, over all the others around. I've met so many great and fine people, and to just up and leave would be like cutting off a limb.

So if I'm right about this, and I truly believe I am. You won't be able to just leave without going thru serious withdrawal pangs for a good long while.. and those pangs will likely cause you to return one day. That's what Turbine KNOWS about its client base, and that's why they KNOW that whatever decisions they make will come out fine in their favor. :cool:

Have a nice day now. :)

[Umox II]

I guess we just aren't going to agree on this lag issue.

Ok another example, player A and player B are running along the dires tigether. Both experience "lag". Player A is from england and player B is from America. Player A and B ask their friends if they experienced any lag.(their friends are chatting at the mansion and experienced no lag at all) By your reasoning, player A and player B experienced client side lag at the exact same time and in the exact same place, which seems very unlikely.

The ocasion when the whole AC world lags(more likely hangs) is rare, likely to be less than 5% that you refer to as server lag.

Id say only 5% of the time i experience lag,it's me. why? i have other stuff going on in the background. i connect to AC from windows via my linux machine, which is also connected to all my servers worldwide(which send ping requests to me and i to them every 3 minutes) Not to mention being on IRC which shows any connection problem straight away.

So if it isn't the servers that lag the rest of the time then what is it? Why do hundreds of people experience it? are they laggy? Have you actually seen how much data transfer AC uses? It's very little more than dialup.

That being said, im sure some users in remote areas on poor connections do experience that 95% client side lag you are talking about. Don't assume it for everybody.

The devs know AC lags, is it a poor internet connection on their side? Nope...Why aren't they adding more houses? the servers can't handle it.

Im curious if this new server is going to be a test run of sorts. They want a bigger player base then they have to make the game more stable.

Anyway, last time i post on this thread. If all the AC lag you experience is client side, i would suggest looking into another ISP.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

You attempt to make yourself out to be some sort of technical guru with all your various connections that eventually lead to windows, and then hit me with a line like the following?

Anyway, last time i post on this thread. If all the AC lag you experience is client side, i would suggest looking into another ISP.


LOL Obviously you haven't read much or anything I've said.

I'm also done with this thread.

*flails arms in the air while rolling eyes*

[AC-Vet]

FmtSentFlatfoot- I'm well aware of the babble and I'm also aware it appears you attack alot of poster's on this thread...If you know so much and you really should just state your view and let it go. Every subscriber has the right to post thier Pro's or Con's...Every player has thier own view on what has taken place up to current date. Yes I agree...AC1 is the best game out there, and after 4 years, I sure hate to see it go away. I'm not done with meeting my own personal goals. My above post did not state I was going to quit over a specific thing, I stated that after 4 years...they need to re adjust the game in balance and create some excitment...So you asked why am I still here after 4 years? Simple I have not met my own personal goals yet. but that is a balance also...meeting goals versus bordom, keeping intrest in the game. Also you state you was a admin of some sort and have all the inside knowledge...what happened that your no longer of importance? You repond to threads like your Ibn's second hand man...this is not the right area to submit your resume'. This is NOT a Personal attack to belittle you...this is a reply to your thread concerning my post...you addressed many points out of the thread but didn't grasp the idea behind it.

The Idea was this: before turbine rushes to a decision that effects a large number of players both pro and con...they simply need to look at the balance of the game. 50% want it the way it was 4 years ago. 50% want it the way it is now and has been running for 3+ years. It becomes a balancing...what is the best tactic to use not to upset player base on either side. I'm sure Turbine has a few ideas on how to address these issues already, however...IMPUT from the player base is also a way to do a head count on a idea thrown out about certian changes and ideas they came up with...but as a 4 year Vet of AC which many of us are...there are way to many things wrong ingame now that need fixed before they approach into a new dilema and the things wrong now continue into the extended future of ac...
1 of which is this: Lag- which you state is player isp...I don't agree but thats my oppinion.
2 a broken story line. loss of adventuring.
3. issues concerning CoC
4. broken content in the game such as quest's, critter balance, and PVP...
5. Housing issues
6. Admin help- communication-active responce
7. Ingame help points to get help from Zone but Zone ppl state they don't support AC issues...so were is the active support? tech help and gamming issues to be brought to? I ran across a toon a while back the was stuck in graphics lock for some 26 hours...there was not one responce to his urgent assistance messeges...to include many many others that came to his aid and sent in thier own messeges seeking admin help....with no responce....simply put...all there needed to be was some ++admin state: sorry- there is no way to unlock your char unless we do a reboot, this may take 24 hrs lol....anything would of been better than letting him there for 26 hours with no reply.

sorry that got extended longer than I wanted it.
there are many more but I don't feel like keep listing them all. its just a point being made that there are way too many issues needing addressed to start a dilema on exp smerf, new server, and new market playerbase. lets fix what is broken before opening up to more problems.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

Sorry that you see it as an attack. It's not. Just offering a rebuttle to other's rebuttles. It's called "discussion", which occurs on messageboards such as this one.

I stated my view from the very start, and all everyone did was (as you call it), attack my viewpoint. Realizing it's not an attack, but a discussion, I carried on with it, and only once had to break off due to being called an "idiot" by another member; which IS an attack.

But I digress....

From my perspective, if I have goals set that I wish to meet, I don't complain about the hardships I may be undergoing to achieve them. To me, any hardships I encounter along the way adds to the enjoyment of the set goal, and whatever Turbine does to thwart my attempts to get to that goal, makes it all the more enjoyable, as it present new, exciting challenges. That's what makes Asheron's Call so much fun, and I believe is what has made it survive this long, and is what will make it survive for a very long time yet to come.

I applaud the absence of Decal and all the automation that people have come to rely upon. Sure, I use Decal also for buffing and the other tedious tasks, but to play again like it was for us original Pioneers, back when there was zero 3rd party programs to do everything for us, is just FANTASTIC! 95% of the entire game population are utterly lost without decal. No one is hunting.. they're all just whining that they can't buff or hunt or do anything. My response? Why not? The spells are in your spell list.. assign them on your spell tabs and start clicking your mouse, and before you know it, you'll be buffed! Is it that hard? lol Sorry, you can call me evil or without compassion for my fellow man or whatever other deviant title you wish to label me as, but I'm really enjoying no decal... I wish Turbine would take measures to make it go away permanently. Then Asheron's Call would be a GAME again, where people would come together to have good, clean, honest FUN, and not just a place to come and watch your characters perform to the latest plugin, for the max possible XP you can freely get for it. :rolleyes:

All decal has done, is turn AC from a fun game, into one of sheer, utter GREED for a big level number... and why? What does it get you? This game shouldn't be Ego-Driven like it has become, producing mass boasters of how much "better" you/they are than someone else. All that does is create resentment, and makes people want to compete to see how quickly they can get there also. That ideal destroys the whole concept of the game.

Let's continue with your rebuttle:

1 of which is this: Lag- which you state is player isp...I don't agree but thats my oppinion.

Please check out: http://www.accmty.com/ASHEnewscodestate1.htm

Down near the bottom of the page:

However, we also found that Internet latency can have a strong effect on how successfully you can run from a monster. If your connection through the Internet is slow or spotty, or if you are downloading more data than your connection can handle, it can allow slower monsters to catch up to you. Also, please realize that when you go from standing still to trying to run from a monster, it takes time for that signal to cross the Internet and reach the server. Until the server knows that you have started running, it thinks you are still standing there. Therefore, to avoid attack, you need to start running before the monster can reach you, and the slower your connection, the sooner you should run.

Hmmm.. sounds pretty much along the lines of what I told you and everyone here a few posts ago. I rest my case. Turbine knows why, and so do I. I hope you do now too. :)

This is also not the first time Turbine/MS have stated to players that most of their "lag" issues, originate from their personal connections. It's just elementary logic anyway.

2 a broken story line. loss of adventuring.

There's no broken storyline, everything is running as planned. What do you mean? Loss of adventuring is a personal thing. You choose to adventure, or stand around doing nothing. Don't blame your non-participatin on the game designers. They go through many hours/days/weeks thinking up things for people to do, WHILE also having to make sure that everything will work as planned. Sometimes it doesn't work out and patch day means we have to wait for them to find what went wrong, but all in all, I think Turbine does an amazing job to keep this game going like it has over the past 4+ years. Hey, you can't please all of the people, all of the time. This goes for all other walks of life.

3. issues concerning CoC

Up to now, it's been handled entirely by MS. Personally, I'm hoping this will soon change and Turbine will decide the proper Game CoC. I have faith that whatever rules and regulations Turbine instills, will be enforced to the letter, without any favoritism being shown to "certain" players; like MS has done so many times in the past. If UCM is punishable by a perm ban (after 2-3 chances or whatever), then if a person goes beyond those chances, they should lose their account, period. Not just banned, but purged from the database, including the CD ID Number, so they can't get back in unless they buy a new CD.

4. broken content in the game such as quest's, critter balance, and PVP...

Broken content. You're asking for the impossible here. You're asking that Turbine devs be perfect in all they do, without any margin for error. Are you that perfect yourself? I'm not. If you want perfection, you're on the wrong planet.

5. Housing issues

??? I'm quite content with my 4 (same settlement) cottages. What do you mean?

6. Admin help- communication-active responce

On this score, as well as #7, you have my full support. You're right, ever since the Zone Online Team was disbanded, customer support has been virtually non-existant. But this is not something to blame Turbine for. Customer support was handled totally by MS, and they were the ones that ditched the entire Zone Online Team, bringing in-game support from about 400 members, down to a half dozen, if that.

That's one of the reasons I let you know of my past involvement as a +Sentinel/Advocate. That system never should've been removed. It's what has "polluted" this game in terms of maintaining a family-fun atmosphere, into the current "cesspool" of potty mouths which run rampant and disrupt a LOT of people's fun with their grossly unchecked and non-reprimanded outbursts of deviant behaviour.

Bringing back a multi-member volunteer system of concerned people, looking to help make it like it once was is badly needed, and will be what will again allow Asheron's Call be become the family-fun experience it once was. You see, paid +Admins is a bad idea, because a paid +Admin cares only about his paycheque, and not so much about the players in the game. On the contrary, Volunteer +Admins care more about the players than anything, because they're giving of their time to make the game better, and more enjoyable for all, for no pay.

If we ever see a Volunteer system in place here again, you will have more in-game help than you know what to do with. :cool:

26 hours without a response from an +Admin for a stuck in portal situation, in my opinion, is pathetic, and there's no excuse good enough for why he was stuck for that long. As a +Sentinel, in my day, had you placed a call for help... you would've been answered with 3-5 minutes, and the problem resolved within a couple more. I dealt with those types of problems back then myself, and we had the player back in-game pronto.

Let's hope Turbine will bring back people who care about helping. *raises hand* :D

FSF

[thomas144]

I am leaving the game because of:

1. the price increase
2. the change to xp chains
3. the extremely long messages in this thread.

[rschroe]

I seem to be in the oppinion of alot of people, please give us an update before u raise the price on us. Or is this an attempt to pay for the update before and if it hits the market.

As far as the new server goes, yes i can see this as a good thing for those people who don't like the way the worlds are now. But those of us that have built homes and allegiances in our worlds you are going to be taking followers from us to the new world. My allegiance is just shy of 300 followers, we have fun, do questing and hunting together. But there is talk of people moving to this new world for greener pastures. I don't want to hold them back but with AC being taken off the market where are you going to get the players to fill all the servers.

As i have stated in other posts i think you should get the advice of the masses instead of the few. I think you should take official polls that you control not push it off to other websites so you don't have to take the responsibility. You have taken back AC I would hope that you would want to know what the masses think before you make major changes to a game that has been fun up till you took it back.

Please advice us how you plan on getting new people to play AC now that you have full control of the game.

[TerroristHunter]

I think that this new server is a good idea. It has gotten to a point that there are only high levelers in the worlds anymore and its difficult to find people to quest with that are of your level (if you are low lev).

I have a list of a few things that I think MUST be addressed.

1...GRAPHICS, definitely need some upgrading. AC2 had the graphics going on for it (except for the stupid looking characters, and their stupid little runs) They seriously lacked the gameplay and character development aspects that make AC as awesome as it is today. AC2 graphics with all other aspects of AC1 would be PERFECT!

2...More quests, LOTS of quests. LOTS of AWESOME items, and make the real AWESOME items VERY hard to get. Old quests should NEVER be retired, and quests should only gain an adventurer items, there should be no finishing XP bonus for doing a quest. XP should only be gained for killing baddies and doing trade skills and such.

3...The ability to use plugins and decal is GREAT it can really help a player when they want to play but they dont have the time to sit and buff up, just buff with a prog, and play when your done.

4...Mages, or players with specialized skills in one of the schools of magic should be the only ones able to cast level 7 spells period. There should also be special spells you can cast ONLY if you get the (non drop/give) scrolls from a quest.

5...Area of effect spells are a must! Crucial area of effect spells. Not like the crappy damage the ring spells do now.

6...The shop system could use an overhaul. The NPC shops are good, however a 'bazaar' type shop should be installed. Kinda like star wars galaxies, where players can create weapons that can rival SOME of the best quest weapons, except some "legendary" weapons and such. The ability to imbue weapons and armor with magic and put great spells on the weapons such as in AC2, and those spells would last a week or a month etc... the marketplace is great but a bazaar would provide an easier alternative to store bots. and would help reduce the lagg associated with the bots.

Other than that AC is perfect, it is the absolute most perfect MMORPG that is out there. I have been playing for 3 years, and I have quit for months at a time and still come back 3 times. The way the game is played, all the skills that are able to be modified. The quests, the chat system, the EASE of gameplay. It is seriously the best game out there. I dont see any reason right now, why anyone would want to leave.

[Falron]

With all the complaining about UCM's and xp chains and such, it might be a consideration for the new world to have the restictions placed on it exclusively as sort of a test to determine viability.

People would find out pretty quickly if they would like the changes or not.

Irrefutable results would be provided by the sustained/growing population or the dwindling of population on the new server.

I was on solclaim when it was first introduced as well as Wintersebb.

The common trait on those servers was the initial surge of players from the other servers, followed by the declining of population to near normal levels within a few weeks.

Most players rushed to join the new worlds simply because there were no high level characters at that time.

What other reason was there anyways at the time?

There was no difference in content between the servers at all but, each new server quickly became the highest population for a short while

As the powerlevelers swiftly rose in levels, many of those players seeking a level playing feild got discouraged and went back to their more established characters on the other servers.

If a new server had a proceedure (such as a client check upon login by the server) to eliminate the possibility of macro's/UCM's along with the elimination of XP chains, then the resulting population after the initial few weeks would give proof if it was a viable option to implement or not.

[Dirigo]

I don't mind the sub increase. I don't know about the new world. I miss the people helping each other. Teaching, learning, discovering together. Taking an hour to help a new player recover his body and getting him to a semi safe area to hunt. And giving him/her a piece of low value loot that is uber loot to them. That's what was done for me. There are no new players. The game has become basically a shooter now. Before, you used to really earn what you learned. I remember spending hours standing in the ring at Holtburg. Burning up mana and spell components trying to learn spells. It was worth it. Running for my life from a drudge! LOL! People I didn't even know getting together to help me get back to my body to save my crummy armor cause that's all I had. They did it because they had been through it themselves. Very few people seem friendly anymore. They're in a hurry to level or find some piece of loot. Used to ask a question out loud and you would get 4 or 5 answers from out of 15 people in the amount of time it took them to type it. Now, you have to ask it 4 or 5 times to get an anwer from 1 out of 25. No they are not bots!LOL! Do I know how to fix all the things everone says is wrong. Nope. The game is what we make it. If something doesn't work it wll fall by the wayside. This game included. I still think this is the best game I've ever played. I will continue to play it and hope that Turbine listens carefully to all the players and makes the right decisions. I feel that a major increase in new players and a slight return to the old ways, ie. earn what you learn, would go a long way to returning the game to balance. Most humans have a desire and a compulsion to help each other in time of need. To learn, to perform better. When the necessity to cooperate disappears so does the compulsion. Thats about all the rambling I've got. So, in the immortal words of Bill and Ted,"Be excellent to each other." And from me; May your work pass quickly, and your time off last as long as you need! I'm out.

[Askani]

The price increase did not bother me until I started reading about the changes and with the foreseeable changes, I am not willing to keep all my accounts. They will be unplayable and no reason to keep them. So, the way I see it now, this will be a price decrease for me instead. My monthly subscription fees will drop to 12.95 instead of the forty I am paying now.

The new server is great for those that want it but I have no desire of moving back to the start. The only way I would want to move is if we went back to the true beginning of AC with having to learn spells, use comps and be squashed by the weight of pyreals. Starting a new world with the changes we already have will do nothing more but create another WE or Soclaim. The people will be low level for appox two weeks and then their will be high levels again. I have seen new worlds open other places and it accomplished very little but take the whiners away from the true gamers. I would be very happy to be rid of the whiners for a few weeks.

So no complaints on the price increase (decrease for me) or the new world where I have no desire to go.

[Arch Magi]

I have 5 accounts in AC1. 2 of them are not active, nor will they be active for some time. As a result of JUST the price increase, I will be shutting down another one, and going with just 2.

I say JUST because of the price increase so you may get a better feeling of how many people are leaving the game and give that info to your bean counters.

When our company desides to adjust its prices, we have to look at numbers. Will cutting our prices 25% give us a MORE than a 25% increase in sales? If not, then we are no better off. Will raising your prices by 30% cause LESS than 30% of the accounts to be shut down? If more than 30% of the accounts shut down as a result, then you are losing money.

Now, with OTHER factors in mind, XP Chains, increased lag for the past 2 months, etc. Turbine very well may loose 100% of my business. But for the moment, they are only losing 60% because of the price hike.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

Excellent Dirigo! You hit the nail on the head! I agree 1000%! We need to get back to how this game was supposed to work, and not what it has become. We need to get rid of 3rd party programs that do everything for us. (Okay, maybe some things are nice and Turbine might consider their own built-in versions of same). All this automation allowing people to play their characters while they watch TV etc., is what has ruined this game also. Robots have no compassion for others.. they do a job they were programmed to do. If a UCM Bot kills the monster you're hitting on, you have no say, no recourse, even if you scream and yell.. it doesn't hear/see you and doesn't care, and the greedy, self-centered people who employ these tools also don't care that they ripped you off. They're like the last surviving Muskateer with a changed message: All for One, and All for ME, and to heck with the rest of Humanity! :p

Turbine? Please make it so Decal is a thing of the past... get rid of it. Change the client to somehow be server-side only, and make 3rd party programs impossible. By doing that, you also eliminate people from seeing an +Admin on-site when they need to investigate something. That's how it was at the beginning, and that's how it should still be. Don't let the general public control how things are done anymore. The genuine people who care about playing a good clean fun game for the sole reason of having FUN will still play AC. Those that leave because they're only here for freebees and handouts for doing next to nothing for it, will be replaced by others who enjoy playing the game as it was designed to be played. Let the exploiters go to other games, where they will likely find out in short order that their ways will not be tolerated there either, and only THEN will they realize how much more fun they had in AC, and might actually come back again! lol Doesn't EVERYONE come back? They sure do... in droves.. and Turbine already knows this. ;)

Hence, why they're not backing down.....

FSF

[sylphia]

http://forums.ac.turbinegames.com/showthread.php?&postid=17495#post17495

http://forums.ac.turbinegames.com/showthread.php?&postid=13666#post13666

http://forums.ac.turbinegames.com/showthread.php?&postid=12844#post12844

[Tehanu]

I just wanted to point out that I think some folks may be getting a little carried away with the calls to ban all macroing, 3rd party apps, etc. I don't macro for any advantage. Never have. I do use 3rd party apps. But only because they provide more convenience...gHUD, NB2, BS2, and Target Info are the programs I use, along with TreeStats (which I use strictly for the quest timer tracking function).

I am one of those folks that like the idea of the new server...however, I think it's a huge waste of turbine's time to bring a new server online that does not offer a drastically different environment from the other servers. The new allegiance xp passup changes are not enough of a difference, especially since every other server will have the same restrictions.

I would suggest that Turbine do at least two things with this server.

First: Introduce the allegiance xp passup changes on THE NEW SERVER ALONE. This will have the benefit of satisfying people that love the new changes while simultaneously satisfying those that play on the other 8 existing servers by not altering their gaming environment.

Second: Work toward developing an enforcable way to ban 3rd party apps on THE NEW SERVER ALONE. The argument here is that the people that are bothered by the current allegiance passup rates are very likely to also be bothered by the ability to macro through use of 3rd party apps. Thus you succeed in bunching all the people, like myself, that would enjoy a 3rd party free server with the proposed allegiance passup changes, all into one happy server. None of the old servers would change in any way. It could be that Turbine may not be able to come up with a way to detect 3rd party apps alone, but I think the Decal Devs are excellent folks, and they work tirelessly with the aim to help this wonderful game along with the Turbine devs. I am sure that if Turbine discussed possibilities for the Decal devs to devise a way to block Decal use if the client logs into a specific server, it could be done.

I seriously encourage Turbine to work toward a way to screen 3rd party apps. Not with the goal of banning them for all players, but rather with the goal of being able to create 3rd party app free servers to satisfy those customers that would enjoy that environment. I know that there is absolutely no reason I can think of that would entice me to leave the server I've played on for four years for the new one as currently described and planned. I can already move to another server to start all over again if I want to. When the allegiance changes come in...yep...I can still move to another server to start all over again. I won't though. And I bet there are plenty of others that won't either if it's just going to be another Solclaim- or Winter's Ebb-like race of power leveling, housing (land) grabbing and macro fest.

Unless you can make a clear distinction between the new server and all existing servers (another distinction might be another PK server, or maybe even a perma PK Lite server), I don't see why you would even bother opening up a new server...it's a waste of your time and ours...just think of how many admins will have to staff that new server to attempt to curb all the UCM that would be going on immediately after the server opens...

So, Ibn, if you're going to respond, I'd like to know whether Turbine is currently working on coming up with ways to differentiate this new server to make it more enticing for people to try it out, and if Turbine would consider drawing up a plan to devise a way to block 3rd party applications on a server by server yea or nay basis. Thanks for all your posts, and thanks to all the Devs at Turbine for the game they made and the game many of us continue to love.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

Me thinks someone is looking for a medal..... or maybe a chest to pin it on... or both? :rolleyes:

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

just think of how many admins will have to staff that new server to attempt to curb all the UCM that would be going on immediately after the server opens...

*wants to break out in a fit of hysterical laughter*

Considering there's maybe 2 or 3 fulltime +Admins now, to patrol all 8 current servers, the only thing they're gonna be doing on the new server, is roaming around cloaked, laughing at all the noobs that will be dying every few seconds. I really doubt there's gonna be an UCMs on the new server for quite some time. What are they gonna UCM, Rabbits and Skulkers? They won't be killing anything very big for a good while to come. LOL

Think about it. No decent armor, useless Academy weapons, no buffbots; just plain zero overall... yep, gonna be a good while before they can build up a buffbot, now with the new passup system in place, seeing as everyone will have very low loyalty/leadership.

I can just picture Olthoi Arcade looking like Bael Zharon's Lair, with 40,000 corpses of level 20 players all piled up. hee hee hee :D

Geez, maybe I will emigrate there also... could call it, "Blast from the Past!" Except all the wildlife will be the current day monsters, which are light years beyond what we started with in November '99. :eek:

[Tehanu]

Well, that's all nicely said, but believe you me...within two weeks the server will have people well over level 50 if people can use El Tank or other "A"CM plug ins.

Have you ever tried starting a new character without any twinking these days? I have. It's quite easy when you form a group of friends that can work together. It's quite possible to reach level 20 within a few night's playing, with absolutely no use of any spell buffs from characters outside the group or items obtained from anybody outside the group. I'm not talking about getting to level 20 within a few nights due to passup, I'm talking simply due to fellowship adventuring xp. Try it...you'll see it's not as difficult as you make it out to be. Yeah, it's not as easy as it is these days with all the twinking going on. But it's certainly nowhere near as hard as it seemed back in 1999 and 2000 when we were still discovering the game, and spell buffs lasted only a few minutes rather than a half hour for all low level spells.

I have no idea what you are talking about in your post about medals or chests to put one on. I guess you take offense to my expression of my opinions? I really don't see why you should be offended, or why you are making some assumptions about me or my motives, if you are making such assumptions.

[kdthradio]

What if you hate group play and don't want to join a fellow? How do you get more XP than you deserve for your kill then? What happened to solo play? How about some quests that can only be solo'd. or killer magic Item quests where the Item stops functioning when you enter a fellowship or have any allegiance rank? You swear and it stops functioning, you break and it works again. I think a new server should have Fellowships that only aid in making chat and keeping tabs of fellowship mates on the radar easier. All a fellowship is, is a Turbine sanctioned acceptable xp exploit designed to retard the progress of the solo player in relationship to the social butterflies.

It's too bad the solitary players will never come together to push no xp modification or sharing, at all, ever. That is the only way the playfield will ever be even. All this beef over chainers. pfft! No passup exp for allegiances, at all, ever. I want no group benifits that descriminate against me because I'm not here to gab for an hour or make a lifelong friend. Find out who your true friends are. That's my view. Believe me it will happen quickly when your relationship with that other player isn't based on how your xp haul is modified by the tie, temporary or not, percieved earned or not.

Sam

-------------------------------------------------

even the non chainers are chainers at thier core

[LaD_HG]

I am sorry you feel that way kdth, cause I like to quest solo...but i do not only play this game to quest by myself....I enjoy the use of fellowships....not for the XP...but for the fact that working together, you all can use your characters talents to overcome your obstical. Being the lone wolf may be ideal for a few...but you will never get that far all by yourself. I don't care how long you have played...what lv your toon is...or anything like that....if you think you are so L33T...then go to VoD and run into a few spawns, drag them into a big group...then fight them all by yourself. If you live....and can show me screen shots to prove it...then I will ph34r joo. A fellowship is an exploit for XP..this is true...but the ppl that use it for that sole purpose are not playing the game for the joy of questing with other ppl...or the social aspects. They are useing the exploit to its full advantage just to lv quicker and show everyone that they are a high lv. Take them on a small fellow VoD hunt...and they die cause all they are accustomed to is camping one spot for hours at a time in a dungeon and letting the XP flow. Thats lame. and not really in the spirit of this game IMHO. I have only been playing this game for a few months...but have made a lot of friends. And I know without the aid of other ppl...half of my accomplishments would never have come to fruition. It's the same thing I keep telling ppl I hear complain about how they are tired of dieing, for one it is a game...quit whining. Second, If you never died...you would have stopped playing this game a long time ago. what would be the point of a game where you never died? If you never died...you could of course never have to fellow...cause no one would need help. If you never died, then how could there be quests? If you want to just have no fellowships...you might as well ask to never die...cause not utilizing group play is like asking to never die. Boring. You may as well ask to get rid of the chat system. Hell...why not just take this game off the internet and make it a single player PC game. Thats what playing alone equals out to. I am not in an XP chain...besides my vassals...and they are only on for a few minutes every month...so its not like i rely on that. I think the ppl that are beefing over the XP chains should, because I don't like it when someone who has never left the mansion logs on and levels every time...just because the chain got them there. THATS and exploit. not fellowships. I know that you are gooing to stay firm in your beliefs about group play...and fellowships and all that...I am not trying to change your mind, just giveing youa different view. But you seem a little close minded about the whole thing...almost like you have been screwed over and if that is the case, maybe you just never found the right group to play with.

[Tehanu]

kdthradio --

I think you actually have some cool ideas there...about items that work as solo players, etc. I like to play solo a lot, and I also like to play in fellowships and with my allegiance members. That's the cool thing about AC, as opposed to single player games. However, this _IS_ a MMORPG. I got dragged away from playuing Baldur's Gate when AC came out, and after being a NWN fan all during the game's development, I just could not play the game when it was released for two reasons: interaction with other players was limited than I liked, and it was quest, quest, quest ALL the time.

I think AC has done a good job of keeping the balance of options for solo players. But this still is a multiplayer online game. There are plenty of awesome games designed specifically for solo players. AC doesn't force you to interact with anybody. It helps you in the game if you do, but nobody is forcing you to.

[Mr Creme]

I personally don't like the idea of a price hike but if you look at the other games that you can buy it's still a deal. And if you think about the cost of the entertainment value...it's a much better deal than 12.95, 15.95 or even 20 bucks a month (don't get any ideas here though.....lol)

As far as the new world goes.....Useless except for the new peeps drawn in by the new expansion. I don't think there's one person on now that's willing to move and start over.

I do like the ideas above with the solo items but that's not enough. I think we should have vengeace items for PKL so you can loot the corpse but one of the items may kick your butt...that might stop the PKL tourneys happening in frequented areas.

I also think there should be NO MACROERS...........PERIOD......... when decal wasnt working I would go in to tusker holding and I wsa the only one there...it was paradise. Then decal comes back and the world stopped again. hello UACM!!! and if you don't think it's happening, you're only fooling yourself. Visit one of these dungeons and talk to the people in there fighting...hmmm no answer....well let me steal all your kills....hmmm no complaining... It's happening and it's getting worse and worse. I like tank, it's a nice tool to show me how much each kill gives me and some of the other functions are cool too. But the macroing part should be gone, Nerfed, whatever you want to call it but kill it kill it kill it!!! And that's all I got to say about that!

Now Run Forest Run!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mr Creme
Black Dog Monarchy
Wintersebb

Dogz Speed All.
http://webpages.charter.net/dufffer

[LaD_HG]

Actually, when the new server comes out, I, as well as many ppl i know, are going to start new characters on it. No buff bots, no higher lv ppl.....its gonna be like playing when the game first came out(well...questing and hunting wise). The fact that you will have to rely on your own abilities for a long time is an atractive force for the new server.....and hundreds of n00b characters running around trying to help eachother out to Lv up is going to be a good time as well.

[Mr Creme]

ok, I can actually understand some people moving over to try it out "old school". But here's how I see that playing out.

the new world will be a paradise with people "helping" people and quests and allegiances the way they're supposed to be. That'll last for about two weeks before it's taken over by macroers who've already hit lvl 60 and now they're the strongest ones around and they'll set the stage for the entire world. The new peeps will come on and see that this is the way it's supposed to be so they'll start macroing and pretty soon, all the people that moved over will want to go back to their old worlds only to find out that since they left, there were fewer people playing so other noobs took over that world and now that one is also macroville...

I know this is worst case scenario, but I think you see my point.

Until the macro plague has been "cured" no matter what turbine does, the whole game will be a bunch of macro xp whor3s (and I mean that in the nicest sense of the word.....lmao).

If you move over I wish you the best of luck. And I sure hope I'm wrong here but I for one will not move. I'll still enjoy playing the game but I'll stick to my server, playing the toons that I've worked hard to develop without all the add on cheats.

LaD_HG, when you do move over though..let me know what your name is cause when I log on to that world to see how bad it is, I want to contact you. You sound like you'd play the game the way it should be done... the way I do it...

http://webpages.charter.net/dufffer

[MeTaGarfield]

Now this is totally off topic but there seem to be some "group hate" going around at the boards recently.

Just one comment on that:

United we stand, divided we fall.


Take away all positive other buffs. (Right now they are cheaper to cast than self buffs, anyone can think of a reason for that?)

Take away all fellowships, no exp sharing, no bonus, no private chat channel.

Now, send in two identical melee characters with no magic in a dungeon. Only the buffs they get from their arcane lore items. No debuffs on the critters in this equation.

First they see a swarm of 10 Olthois.

They take them down one by one. It takes 3 minutes.
Had they been alone it would have taken 6 minutes, and they would have taken much more damage, both because of more "monster minutes" and because of the fact that the Olthois had to divide their attacks.
So right off they have saved some money on healing.
Experience over time remains the same however, half the exp in half the time.

After five minutes the group respawns. This gives the pair two minutes to either loot or move on (or both). Had they been alone they would have been constantly occupied with respawning Olthois as they only kill off 8.3 Olthois each respawn timer.

Moving on is not an option for the lone player, but the pair moves on. Out of aggression range from the (extinct) guard group they find a boss Olthoi (not quite the Queen, more like Matron). Like the matron, this baby has a lot of hit points (4000) and the appropriate high healing rate (1500 points/minute).

The truth is that a single player hitting here will do 1000 damage per minute while she regains 1500 hp/minute and the Matron will shrug off an individual attacker, while the player eventually runs out of healing and has to flee.

With two people, the Matron takes 2000 hp damage per minute, which means she loses 500hp per minute after healing herself. So after eight minutes, she drops dead. The substancial amount of experience is divided according to damage dealt and there is a trophy item on her as well.

Of course, had these slightly slow muscleboys helped eachother when killing the original group of ten (concentrating their effort on one enemy at a time instead of taking one each) thay might have killed all ten in just 1 minute 30 seconds because of the higher damage-to-healing ratio.


This is the power of groups. This is why "kill stealing" between non-debuffing people is a non-issue.


Put debuffs into the equation and things change drastically. The melee now gets the same relative advantage for free as the mage wants for himself.
But that change is radical. Almost twice the damage can make the difference between not being able to kill at all and killing fast, or killing after a while and two-shot because of health regeneration.

Add a fellowship system where you share exp equally (no bonus), and this group can be much more efficient than the two melees above. Not only do we have one melee that does the damage of two, we also have a mage that can add some damage to the equation.

Add other spells and the mage may work as a healing source or provide buffs the melee does not have access to.


I agree, fellowship bonuses was a bad idea. The real incentive to share exp in a group shuld be based on the synergy effect of having a group that is more effective and efficient than the sum of its individual members abilities

So I'll end with another quote:

The whole is larger than the sum of its parts.

[Mr Creme]

maybe you should take time to think things through first before posting...I mean...really!!!

hehe, just kidding. nicely put.

I've got nothing to say to that!!

[JFK]

I, along with several others im sure, do miss the old days of AC. From reading everyone elses posts it has brought back memories. Its been two years since ive played AC and have started to think about playing it again. One of the main reasons I left AC after 2 years of play is that the game has been progressively made easier to play, I too remember the days of burning up spell components, trying to find all the different spells, excited at the possiblities. I watched alot of changes, mostly good, melee became sticky (die-hard Darktide here), several exciting new quests and items and whatnot, but like i said, things became easier. Newbs can get to lvl 5 now in 7 minutes at the training halls now, no longer do they need to beat up drudge skulkers with thier fisties. The buffbots are ridiculous in my opinion, while very convenient, its a very cheap way to get buffed, noone really had to work hard to get this bot to cast lvl VII's, hell I remember when there nothing past lvl V's. The game no longer rewards self-suffiency and working, while having fun , for you lvls.
Anyways, after 2-1/2 years of not playing, I think that the idea of a new server is a good idea(wish it was pk though) and I will probably will get a new account. The idea of starting over again and everyone starting at the beginning is ideal. Just wish it was pk. Thats all i got to say.:rolleyes:

[kirkmeaux]

Feb. 7th bill 13+dollars...started early with the increase. Tight budget...hope io don't bounce a check.

[Toron]

Greetings everyone,

Is this farewell ? or until we meet again ??

I logged into the game the day they ( Turbine ) moved Leafcul over to the new Turbine site, because the world was down I visited their new Asheron's Call @ Turbine site and read that they intend to raise the price of an account to $12.95 each month.

Because of that I took my account information off ALL the accounts I've been paying for.
Toron Vendar
Destinee
Corey the Silent
Ray the Warlord
Anamaxis
Chugou Masters
Snave Trevor

7 accounts are a little expensive at $9.95 and even more at $12.95 per account.
Turbine gives some **** & BULL excuses for the increase, but there are still thousands of people playing AC1 because of the fact it is still under $10.


I love to play the game, my characters are finally respectfully high enough to handle almost anything thrown at them, I really enjoy the interaction between people playing all over the world, and needless to say ... My family plays on here together, as a family.
** Hello, met my wife on the game **
We're happily married now, but I can't afford to keep paying these prices for a GAME each month.

I started playing this to SAVE money I was wasting on all these single player games, you know the ones, ( buy - play - win - buy next game. )
What's a person to do when the game costs more than its worth ? And is charged to you EACH month.

Well, if the kids decide to keep playing, they will have to come up with their own money to pay for their own accounts.

I've thought about just paying for mine and possibly Destinee's but we'll see. As we're trying to buy a new home here in town, it might not be possible at all.

I find it funny, that we've all known people that have played and quit, but now that the time to stop playing and quit myself is here, I feel reluctant to do what I know is right and just pull the plug on this virtual world I so love.

I guess only TIME will tell the tale of what happens to Toron and his family here on Asheron's Call.
I just hope everyone remembers the good times we all had together, and doesn't dwell on those that might have been " IF " we stay or leave.


Toron of Leafcul

[mikey5time]

Any update on when new accounts are going to be on sale Ibn? I've been checking twice a day for anything on here about that, since without my original CD, no way to get back on game.

Just itching to get back at the game, is all.

Thanks,
M5T

[Ibn]

Yup! From Jessica's Transition Diary (http://ac.turbinegames.com/index.php?page_id=167):

Buying AC1 or AC2: People have been asking when the games will be available for purchase again. We apologize for not getting to this quicker. We were surprised by the huge demand for new accounts and weren’t adequately prepared. But, now the problem is in hand. By the end of this month, you should be able to purchase AC1 and AC2 (both CD Keys as well as the clients for both games) online through Turbine’s promotional partner. Then, by the start of April, you will be able to purchase them directly from Turbine.

The purchase options will be:

* Purchase a CD Key for Asheron’s Call® (for those who already have the client and just want an additional account) for $12.95 USD. This will include the standard one free month of access to the game;

* Purchase and download the latest Asheron’s Call® client software, along with a CD Key, for $15.95 USD. This will include the Dark Majesty expansion pack all the monthly updates since launch in 1999 and one free month of game access;

* Purchase a CD Key for Asheron’s Call 2® for $12.95 USD. This will include the standard one free month of access to the game;

* Purchase the retail unit of Asheron’s Call 2® for $15.95, including a free month of game access. We’ll the ship the unit from here and toss in a CD with the all monthly updates since the launch in 2002, so those installing the game from scratch won’t have to sit through a several hour update process.

* Purchase Asheron’s Call 2® and download the software and a CD Key.

I’ll keep you updated on our progress here; we want to get this up and running as soon as we can.

[Jinnsman]

This is wonderful news! I am glad to hear that Turbine is taking this approach to subscriptions, count me in on at least one new account :D

*needs more mules and another aptment*

[Flynn]

I can't help wondering how many people would happily pay double the subscription (or three times, etc.) for one account, with the same amount of storage space and characters as they'd get if the amount they were paying was for multiple accounts.

For example, rather than paying $25.90 for two accounts, could I pay the same for one account with 10 characters, and a chest with two spaces for packs, and 100 slots in the main chest? I realise that's probably a HUGE upgrade to the game engine, but it would be SO much more convenient. Personally, I'd pay that much for five characters, space for 37 packs in my chest, and 610 spaces in the main chest, which is exactly the same storage space I'd get with another chest and 5 characters. Can we say 'convenience?'

It would need to be possible to log the same account in twice (but not the same character) to allow swearing one of your characters to another though. I can't see it happening personally, but it would be SERIOUSLY nice.

[GoliathT]

On the subject of a new server - I'm a happy camper. I'm looking forward to a fresh start on a server with the new XP pass rules in place from the beginning.

With regards to pricing, I see it as another good move on Turbine's part to boost their financial position (keeping in mind that anything that can't be done at a reasonable profit usually ends up disappearing).

There will always be complaints on this score as everyone wants to get something for as little as possible but if you are actually 'playing' AC every month then a $3.00/account increase is insignificant. You are still getting great value for your entertainment dollar. If you disagree about the value then you were probably halfway out the door to another game or some other entertainment activity regardless. I've enjoyed this game since the beginning and I'll be keeping my 3 accounts.

GT

[Imus]

I paid over $40.00 us for 2 Dark Majesty expansion packs, mostly due to the hype of available housing and new lands, now after living the horror of how housing was made available and the boring ML land mass, I see where all AC clients will now be equal so as to bolster your marketability of the Game to new and former subscribers. this is most aggregious. How can you diminish our investment in Turbine, and it is an Investment when you compute our costs to play the expanded version. You give major stroke love to DT players faced with a rollback, I think you owe your loyal subscribers and expansion pack buyers some MEGA love to offset the sting of this insult.:mad:

[Flynn]

Oh, get a grip. You got a free month on each for that, it only cost you about $20. If you honestly think that's too expensive for the additional content on ML and benefits of two houses (sure, it wasn't released very well, but at least you got it) for two years, go play something else. I'm getting SERIOUSLY sick of the whining from players over this issue.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

I'm getting SERIOUSLY sick of the whining from players over this issue.

Careful, kdthradio might see your post and come attempt to put you in your place. He seems to enjoy making rather large waves... so be forewarned. :rolleyes:

On the flip side, I'm with you. :)

[Nitrox]

Sorry if this was asked yet.................. but is thier any plans for adding different payment plans now that turbine runs things now?.

Like insted of just having the monthly payment of $12.95 per month, have more options available like 3month for like $11.50per month and 6month for $10.50per month, and then a 12month $9.50per month.

So with the 12 month you get the most saving but if you want to cancel your account during the 12 month period, you still can play till the subcription runs out at the end of the 12 months.

With these prices you save around $40 a year, and turbine will receive more in the long run from people getting it and staying, insted of quiting and coming back every few months.

[Ibn]

Originally posted by Nitrox
Sorry if this was asked yet.................. but is thier any plans for adding different payment plans now that turbine runs things now?.

We don't have any plans that we can announce, but we're certainly looking at various options.

[Nitrox]

Ok thanx for the responce Ibn :), mainly i was just wondering if this type of plan would be possible in the future for AC, and i guess something is in the works i take it.

When i bought SWG 2 weeks after it came out i decided to go with the 12month plan for the savings, and since then i only have played half that time in game. I just like the idea of picking it up again and playing when i feel like it and its just a click and a patch away.

In AC i have quit a few times becuase i didnt know if i would be back in a month or in a year, so i didnt want to pay if im not playing even if i felt like it but didnt want to spend a months subscription to find out i still didnt want to play lol.

[Zeds]

I would like to see a no PvP server

all the "normal" servers are a mix of npk, pkl, pk

there is already a dedicated Pk server

how about a server dedicated to those who dont want to see the smack talk,.profanity and childishness that seems to pervade the PK mindset? squelching , even using expanded versions in 3rd party apps, doesnt remove it and reporting it gets you no response .


edit please !!! we bought the expansion(s) ,more than one in some of our cases and now the cheapskates are getting in the same content for free? If that isnt a slap in the face of everyone who bought DM I dont know what is.

[Ivanhoe]

The servers are already low on population. And a new server makes no sense other then just a little ways to justify the price hike.

low populated servers are not fun for mmorpg's.

I think its a big gamble that ac will produce a lot of new subscribers to fill up the old servers . A lot of people will be going to this new server lowing the population of all servers across the board.
And i think its safe to say the people leaving will equal the amount of new subcribers coming in. Making the Number of subscribers the same but with 1 more server to try and fill.

Id love to play on a new server with the new xp changed and with ucm enforcement and everyone starting at level 1 again. However i dont see how taking current players from halffull servers away to this new server will help anyone.

[Italuwa]

sorry i was a little behind on my nag/rant on the people asking for things that aren't possible.

#1 I ALL for this new server, no xp chain, and and i'm sure that the people on the server will report the macroers (unless they are their vassals people are greedy and with the new xp system if you have a direct vassal you'll get alot more xp)

#2 asking if it will be 3rd party free... this would be more then difficult to do because so many people have it/use it. it makes everything that much more easy, especialy for mages, one of my vassals is a mage, and doesn't know a monsters weakness from his elbow, eltank helps him, i know he doesn't macro, i can give a 100% guarentee he doesn't, hes not on for hours and hours and when he is on i talk to him. but he does use the battle macro to help him kill.-{to fix hacking on my game i had it set up so that if you tried to alt+tab your character will log out, this stoped people from changing their characters stats, among other things. like destroying my servers. but decal is started before the game client is run, which makes it hard to stop its use. even on my servers if your have a hack and run it before the game, and its not active. all u have to do to start it is hit a sequince of key strokes and ding, your in.

#3 as everyone knows with the new server opening, and people with multi accounts, there will still be the idiots out there that will buy multiple villas, which is completely screwed. give it to other people, let them have a chance. i play sc i live in the projects.aka. an apartment. when my patron has 4 villas, and is buying a 5th. and i live in an apatment, and it makes me mad because i've been trying to get a villa for a year and a bit now. no one sells. and to catch them when someone forgets to pay is like trying to catch an kangaroo on foot, its not going to hapen unless your right next to it with everything u need.

#4 people should not worrie about special things about the server, i'm sure turbine will do its best to make some way for people to want to play it, not just for housein...i think thenew server shoulden't have housing at all.shadowclaim was fun, even i'd like to see things like that in the new server....pookie attacking the mp and BZ too. now that was awsome!!!

ok i'm done, later

[chrismisterx]

Well the price rise is not important, its been long over due.

But I am already worried about the new server, already we have teams of players who are play testing macroing the lower content so they can buy up all the villas asap.

Also they belive they can get tinkers / bots up to level 126 within 2 months if not alot sooner, and are making some new macro programs to do this.

I hope with the new server, either housing is released slowly, giving everyone a chance to get some, I also hope the COC is enforced 100%, I would hate to see new players not staying because of a few macros.

AC1 is the best game I have played, and with the new updates and work that is being done should end up better than ever.

SO I would like to ask a quick question to IBN,

Will you be looking at the lower level hunting grounds to look at removing some of the perches and macroing spots?

Already people have found some "good" low level macroing spots and I would hate the new server to fill up with damn UCM's.

Keep up the good work!

[Italuwa]

i agree, if housing is available it should be released slowly, if at all, i could play the new server with no housing, it would remind me of back in the day when enkmar from solclaim and his followers would hang around eastham(i really miss the good'l days, where allegiances ment family) now allegiances aren't measured on the types of people they are rated on allegiance rank and xp pass up, for me panzer, ruthless, are the biggest xp chainers on solclaim, a friend in ruth said he logged on to 100 mill everyday for almost a week. he went from level 1-156 in a week..thats macroing for u! i think that if people macro, and caught, their characters are delete, and their credit card # is banned.. that would make alot of people stop macroing, i don't macro, but if that was how it went, i would stop cuz i pay for other peoples accounts, and i don't want to punish them because i'm a lazy bugger

[slaven]

So turbine is getting away with raising the price after it's been the same for the past 4 yrs. Hrm. Ok i'll go along with this.

So where is my money going?

A: Your money is going to make the server more laggy.

Proof: The server is laggy as heck since janauary Update.

Solution: February update they say "lag issue will be fixed in this update' Alright thats fine i can wait til the 2nd week in february to play the game again. oh wait it's February 17th now. Damn They were wrong yet again Update is now scheduled for the last week in February.

Problem: TUrbine can't get us a update on time if their lives depended on it.

Solution: prepare better? Don't Tell us your Moving update to 2nd week of the month and then have The january Update with like 3 days left in the month and now the february update is going to be with like 3 days Left in the month again seems like a pattern is Forming Why don't you guys just say ATTENTION ACER"S IF YOUR LUCKY WE WILL GET THE UPDATE FOR THIS MONTH OUT IN THIS MONTH IF NOT WE WILL JUST SKIP ONE MONTH UPDATING TO CATCH UP (I.E. Never have an update for a month omg what is ac coming to)

Problem: TUrbine said ac just beginging From what i've been seeing it looks like their takeover is going to be the end of ac not the begining.

[Italuwa]

wow how about u complain some more. they said they are going to fix the lag issues(i haven't had any just the regular problems like my internet conection droping for no reason at all) maybe its a bigger problem and they want to fix it, they just need more time. maybe if you would not be so selfish about it you would prolly see that they are trying to fix the problem. and u say they are going to kill ac, no, its fools like you that are going to ruin it for the rest of us. if you have been in a xp chain you've contributed to ruining ac. you can't base how turbine is doing since they bought ac cuz they've been basing all the patches to fix things to stop people like u from complaining. they haven't barly had enough time to do what they wanted yet(prolly) with the changes they have to make there may be a few more patches like this. i can admit the past while i haven't been on as much. but i know once they have all these thigns fixed so they stop getting complaints about things they said they'd fix THEN the good stuff will come, i highly doubt they are going to spend the whole time that they have ac fixing problems, before there weren't very many its just since the takeover. so chill, sit back, take a breather, everything will be back to normal in a month or 2

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

Italuwa

its fools like you that are going to ruin it for the rest of us. if you have been in a xp chain you've contributed to ruining ac.

Hey dude... remember the rules. No personal attacks.

Also, people in XP Chains have not ruined anything since it was designed to work like that from the beginning of AC back in 1999. Even beta for that matter. Those who used that system are not cheaters, exploiters, etc., Turbine even claimed that. So don't go around even thinking it.

[Zeds]

it wasnt the xp pass up and the chains that caused the problem , it was the over inflated xp production allowed my macros being in game 24/7 pumping gazillion xp per day into them , if the normal player group had a chain it would not ever compete xp wise with a macroers chain

hence the fixshould have been ...all together now... permanently banning macroers from the start and enforcement of the CoC from the start.

[Avogardo]

Lets first say this games has been the greatest.

I have two accounts and will not pay for both at this price untill I see big improvements in reference too graphics, bad timing on Turbines part here.

With World of War Craft coming and other games with awsome graphics, there is no way I will stay with this great historical game unless You, Turbine up the graphics to the point where Blizzard kneels before you.

I understand it maybe hard for some people not having the approriate card to handle such graphics, perhaps a group buy program with ATI or Nvidia. Just a thought. Just remember if you can compete with the graphics of newer games Ac I will be no more.

Owner of two accounts.

ty

[pokute]

I think the timing and reason behind the price increase are definitely justifiable, although I would love to see more justification being presented, or at least more concrete details that outline future improvements to AC.

Give everyone something to look forward to :3

[AndyUSAF]

I like the idea of a new server. I just hope that they find a way to keep the cheaters from cheating and with the new allegiance system we wont have to worry about Xp chains. I don't mind the extra $3 a month. I believe its far past due. People need to stop crying about it. I have been playing for four years and I will NOT be canceling my account due to the price increase. Its $3 per month. Big deal. For those with multiple accounts, If thats going to break your bank account then maybe you should spend more time at work and less time playing.

The one thing I am hoping for with this new server is the complete ban on all macros. I miss the days of trading in the hub person to person. That was a dynamic of the game that I believe alot of people enjoyed. It would bring back some of that excitement that AC used to have. No more buffbots to take a level 1 to level 20 in 2 hours. Remmember how the game once was when we first started and it was hard to get by in Dereth. That was the fun part. Without challenge you get bored.

So I am going to be looking forward to this new server and the challenge that it may hold. As for the price increase. Its worth it. I love this game, I would happily pay that of what I did for SWG or any other mmorpg simply because everyone I have tried reguardless of the price lacks whatever it is that AC has that keeps me coming back.

Just my 2 cents. Ibn, I hope you guys really try to Nerf those cheating macroers.

[Per]

The new world should be a RP server.

[AndyUSAF]

Whats RP?

I have heard people say it should be no allegiances and all PK to control bots and keep from chaining up high levels. I just say people running your 3rd party programs stay on the other 8 servers you have ruined and let us actual Player Characters run arround free of your bull****! You are the reason for lag. You are the reason for lack of housing and your the reason other people have a bad gaming experience. Don't ruin this one last chance at people actually having fun playing AC again.

[MIdnightFire7]

Originally posted by AndyUSAF
Whats RP?

I have heard people say it should be no allegiances and all PK to control bots and keep from chaining up high levels. I just say people running your 3rd party programs stay on the other 8 servers you have ruined and let us actual Player Characters run arround free of your bull****! You are the reason for lag. You are the reason for lack of housing and your the reason other people have a bad gaming experience. Don't ruin this one last chance at people actually having fun playing AC again.

Not all 3rd party applications cause lag because not all of them are bots. I use decal and will admit it freely. I don’t run a bot of any kind. I got my cottage by paying sings for it. No 3rd party application there. Just a person to person trade. This was before the 3rd party application that checks for housing every min. or so.

But I do agree that the new server should be for those of you who hate all 3rd party applications.

[Hamlit]

Once you leave for the new Decal-free server, please don't EVER come back to the server you left it for and cause lag there.

You see, H8 can work both ways. :mad:

[Magnus Set]

DEATH TO MACROS!!!

There, based my stance. I left AC about 6 months ago. Macroing and the $ exploit that went a month before being fixed was just too much. Once I heard the rumors of a new server and chain nurfing, hope arose anew. Then I heard about the loot/salvage macros. WTF!?!?! Is not a world of inflated lvs not enough? Now an inflated (or deflated, depending how you look at it) econ due to macroing too?!?! DEATH TO DECAL!! Just kill it. Period. Yhea I love the trade bots but thats about it. Can do without all the others. Just kill Decal on the new server. Give us a world without macros AND chains! Oh the possibilities. Let the macroers and push-start-button players rot in the worlds they've already made their own.
Let those who actually PLAY the game have one.
Please?

[gimped mage]

id like the unique items to be romved or available to everyone .

nexus armor for all or nexus armor for none .

[Zeds]

AC would lose about (approx figure only ) 10 times the accounts if the found a way to totally do away with decal
than they would because some people cannot get it thru their heads that there are more useful and beneficial apps that are decal dependant than there are macros that are detrimantal to the game .


instead of harping on the throw the baby out with the bath water kick , why not push for far more strict enforcement of the CoC and deal with the trouble makers only?

I still contend that there are far more people who would rather the new server be 100% nonPvP(NO PK or PKL available) -not mixed white/red/pink like the supposed NPK servers , as those who have no interest in PvP or the vukgarness, abusiveness, childishness,etc that is what PvP is all about ( on the supposedly NPK servers anyway) should not have to put up with those things . a true NPK server is needed.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

I still contend that there are far more people who would rather the new server be 100% nonPvP(NO PK or PKL available) -not mixed white/red/pink like the supposed NPK servers , as those who have no interest in PvP or the vukgarness, abusiveness, childishness,etc that is what PvP is all about ( on the supposedly NPK servers anyway) should not have to put up with those things . a true NPK server is needed.

You got my vote on that! I'd even like to see PK/PKL removed from the original seven servers except Darktide. It would clean up the filth majorly, as most of it comes from the PK Mindset. So in that case, the new server should be PK/PKL only just like Darktide.

Wanna be around a bunch of potty-mouthed children? Play on Darktide or (we'll call it) Degeneratide. :p

Wanna be around normal people with civil tongues (for the most part)? Seven servers for that.

[thomas144]

I don't understand why people play on non-PK servers at all - I really just don't understand the point of the game, so it is doubly difficult for me to understand the appeal of a new non-PK server.

So, you're all just going to start out as new characters and hunt low-level monsters? What's the point? If you want to start a new character and hunt low-level monsters, you can already do that on a number of sparsely populated servers.

A new Darktide (strictly PK server) would be a lot of fun however. My characters on darktide will never be able to compete with the high-level characters already there, especially with the upcoming changes to allegiance XP, so a fresh start and a level playing field would be really appealing to me. As it is, I am planning to leave the game anyway.

[Ashbringer]

I really have enjoyed playing AC for the past 4 years, although I haven't been hardcore, I do come and go but...

Opening a new server? Right now? Why? I dont see much of you actually responding to this other than saying it is going to happen. It's kinda BS. Alright, I can agree with some, make a new PK world, hell throw in a little spice, make it siegable. Make like 3 mansions total and force player to attack each other for housing rights. LOL, make the deed a droppable. That'd be nice.

But why make another server right now of all times? The best idea I have seen is work on current lagg issues, get your update out but for the love of god don't open another NPK server. I was looking forward to fresh faces on Thistledown come the Exp Pack... or at least put off the server until you see how much of a response you get to the Exp Pack.

I think more should be thought of to increase the populations of the current worlds not spread out your player base even further. One of the main reasons I am starting to become annoyed with AC is because of the lack of player base during most times of the day. I have a very sparatic schedule being a student and I really wish that there were more players per world than there are right now, because if I can only get on for a short period one week, I want to be able to go somewhere and amass a group to go Questing or big game hunting... the way the servers are now, you have to schedule a Guild event for it to happen... I like the old days when I could run into Hub and yell out a Quest name and I'd have a full fellow in 5 minutes. Now its hard to get enough people to do it when it's scheduled...

So I am begging, put a new server off until later. Especially a new NPK server.

[Per]

RP is Roleplaying server.

Name restrictions, chat restrictions.... a server where you'd see more of

Earl Pendragon says, "Well met, friends."

and less of

Leet PK God III says, "STfU N00b, I pwn j00 with my r0x0r mcpwnage!!!!!!11111111

Every other MMORPG has RP servers (except of course, AC2, and ask Clan Prosper, they tried) I mean it's kind of odd that an Online Role Playing Game wouldn't have a haven for those who want to be Online Role Players.

[AlexRandomGuy]

Why???? I dont get it, I play AC and its already underpopulated, there arent enough people on each server as it is....you should be consolodating servers not buying a new one!

I dont get it...with the low populations and additions of allegiance mansions its hard to find people in towns now! i want to see more people around in the world, fix that! dont add a new server that drops the populations making it less fun to play!!! you are losing subscriobers turbine!!! get wise to it! you need to consolodate not buy more....

the change in subscription is a temporary fix for a major proble, you guys will start losing money soon, especially if you waste the money on a new server...get your act together. the change in subscrition price should be spent much more wisely!!! spend the money on producing and releasing a new expansion, then a little advertisement and put the game back out on the market, this will fix the long term problem and get more money/subscribers....a new server can only add problems...why, why, why???

[TimboAA]

PK Server, I'd definitely play on it. There is a lot more going on and a lot more to be scared of.

A New server, regardless of its status, I would play on. As a returning player...why would I want to go onto an already WELL established server, where I would have to find my niche amongst them.

I said this on the CoD boards...

My perfect vision of the game would to start it over from the very beginning. Starting with the October '99 release. With the addition of a few manditory fixes. And then go completely through the story line again with everything working and updated graphics. That way I can get another Gertarh's Dagger, and a Hoary Mattekar coat. Change leveling so it was fast enough to keep people entertained, yet slow it down so people don't get out of control. I think that would be tons of fun. I'd probably drop out of college to play AC again if it were to do that! LOL. j/k.

Like someone else said earlier...I miss the fun I had in the first 2 years of playing, it was something special.

I don't mind XP fixes and the extra $3 or so. Granted I'm not going to own multiple accounts either.

Someone said to me that towns are what they used to be either...I just hope they don't end up like they did AC2, where a town was pointless other than the fact it was a junction for portals and had some nice architecture.


But of course, like its been said...over and over again....we need fresh adventurers to heed the call. It's fun not knowing completely what to do. With a new server should come either a boxed version in stores, or some good advertising to get people to come to it. Make sure to point out that this new server is NEW. Some big letters saying its "New" next to it or something so the newbies go there.

Finally....when? When? When? When will we see the new server? When will the graphics update/expansion be complete. However we all know the date will be delayed atleast once...just something to look forward to other than 'something' coming 'sometime' in the future.

This to me is key, because this determines my return date to the land of Dereth. I don't want to be playing for a year putting hardwork into something to then have that new server & expansion come out. I would like to play for a month or two and then be able to move over to the new server with adventures to look forward to.

[chrismisterx]

I totaly agree with Per,

A roleplay server would be very cool, It was the roleplay with a guild called the runeguards that got me hooked on this game.
And its the lack of roleplay 80% of my friends left AC and moved on :(

I would like to see 2 new servers, a new NPK server and a PK one, with the changes thats being made now we really need both. I dont like Darktide and wouldnt play on a PK server, but theres 100's of people who would love to.

As reguards the old servers, How many new players will end up going there, only to be powerleveled past all the really good low level content? I would hate to think NEW players could miss out on the fun thats AC, because of buff bots and patrons who are just too helpfully. So with that in mind I really think you need to let people NEW to the game know which is the new server.

As a point, me and my friend rerolled on HG and after 5 mins of playing and asking people NOT to help us, we had people throwing cash on us and level 7s, when all we wanted to do was self level slowly. All it ment was we had to dump the cash on the local buff bot and @die to get rid of the buffs!
People couldnt understand why we wanted to fight drudges and collect red letters :)


Anyway thats off point, my votes is for a more roleplay server, so could you please keep that in mind :)

Keep up the good work guys!

[thomas144]

They'll probably delete this message because it's too controversial, but how about a server for gay people?

[Nug]

Funny as I read down this thread..I lost track of the subject..what with all these people arguing with a thread..and telling a thread what this game should be about...this xp that xp,
This function..that function...I think listening to my wife is much easier than taking all this info in:)

I been playing 3 years on and off..seems to keep bringing me back..at whatever cost it seems.

Diablo can't say that..dropped that game after all the cheaters got at it.

AC has it's own cheaters also..but they really don't affect me..If someone wants an uber charecter without working for it..by all means let them do it..that way their charecter will match their expectations on life..Most these days want something for nothing.

Again I would point to Diablo for those that fit that category.

What was this thread about again?...lol..

[Grinless]

My vote is for a Roleplaying server,

With a name enforcement policy and total restriction of 3rd party apps in the CoC... Give the purist out there a reason to hope.

- Grinless

[Capt]

So where is this new world that was coming out as my rates are increased? Figured with the increase, at least I would be able to start over from the beginning. Now it just seems like I am being taken for more money, esp with the new loot system. Any idea on new world or should this just be a sign to get out now?

[M_N_001]

I haven't played AC for a couple years but a friend (who likewise has been inactive for a bit of time) and I are planning to start on the new server and have been doing test-runs on some of the other servers.

I don't mind paying $13 for my account but would probably have gotten two if they were still $10 apiece. A lot of the new games out there have better graphics and look nicer, but the substance is lacking and AC was (hopefully still is) the best MMORPG experience out there -- it's faster, more customizable, got lots of stuff for lots of people, and is unique. I'm looking forward to actually starting again (I gave my original account away so I can't reactivate and it's not in stores -- same song as have seen on boards before)...
__________

My thoughts are that there will probably be a couple more new servers like this, and then some of the older ones will be combined (need to change some names but that shouldn't be too big of a deal) and we might have an "old" vs. "new" thing as the players on other servers either get tired of the game and give up or else restart on a new server like we are going to do -- and eventually things will start to run like they were originally supposed to.

This seems to also fit in with Turbine's policy of the slow fix -- if something needs doing, balancing, etc. they *eventually* make the tradeoffs that should have been there originally. Unfortunately, their tendency to not listen to customer base in certain respects (AC2 being the most glaring example of this) along with perhaps the partnership with a much larger and less flexible organization (MS in this genre at least) has made them frustratingly slow at doing things that need doing -- look how long it took them to change the old templates (I remember playing some of them and experiencing firsthand just how bad they were -- especially before the fixed the spec curve etc etc).

Looking forward to the game anyway even if it is with only one account...

[Ibn]

Originally posted by Capt
So where is this new world that was coming out as my rates are increased? Figured with the increase, at least I would be able to start over from the beginning. Now it just seems like I am being taken for more money, esp with the new loot system. Any idea on new world or should this just be a sign to get out now?

The time estimate for the new world is the same as it always was -- Spring of this year.

[camperman-x]

That means March 20 - June 20th =P least thats officially where "spring" falls, cause any later is summer, and earlier is still winter ;)

[rschroe]

I love how Turbine answers questions, be as vague as possible. They new exactly when they were going to raise the rates, March 1st. New server sometime in spring, lol.

[Myll]

Keeping with the Perspective theme:
This will not be a new world, it will be a new server. If it were a new world, the continental layout, portal system and location, creature types, city names and locations etc etc etc would all be different.
Please just call it what it is, an additional server to play on.

The perspective you might want to take on this is how much interest there would be in this game if you truly had different worlds.

For example: In Solclaim the layout was large connected land masses, maybe Olthoi dominate. In Wintersebb, again different layout maybe more Ocean and Ice, and maybe Golems dominate. In another the Virindi may have seized power etc etc etc

As old as this game is, the randomization of these old graphics and storyline content should be as doable as the updated graphics in AC2.

Myll

[Dravun]

Another bit of info.

What you have done is nothing but further increase the distance between the have and the have nots.

One of the haves posted on this boards that he has 10,000 plat scarabs muled.

I have 15.

What you have done is made it much harder for me to keep up or to ever get ahead.

What you have done is took away the fun of hunting. It was fun finding nice items/cash. It is not fun know for a fact that the max value item your going to get off of a level 80 mob is 6k. This is not a guess, there is no varaince.

Thanks for taking away the fun. Oh and whomever came up with this idea, please fire them and hire a person who actual knows the difference between fun and boring.

[Opti_Silmara]

Originally posted by Hand Sum
There are a number of ways to make a fee increase more acceptable to all the long term players, none of which seem to be in the works.

1) Discount for purchase of multiple months of playtime in advance.

2) Discount for multiple accounts. Reward the guys that are fanatics!

3) Additional player slots per world. (7 would be nice.)

4) Additional storage space. (an extra chest, or maybe make those foci pack items instead of taking up a full pack slot)

5) Definitely confirm there will be an expansion pack, with content and improved graphics. We'll keep paying if it's going to finance improvements, and with a definite target date!!

6) Consider starting the new world without any 3rd party apps. As much as I hate the thought of manual buffing, it would be worth it to kill all the scams that go with 3rd party programs that abuse the game rules. I bet a lot of people would be willing to give a no-decal world a shot, if everyone was playing without all the extras.

I've been playing from the 2nd month the game was out, and I'd love to see better graphics, and less lag. Do that, and I'll be happy to pay your price increase!

Reading through all the replies... {and boy was that a long thread!} I have to say this reply sums it up well on what players here are saying they want!

I'd like to add an additional point that other players here are saying too:

7) Bigger patches with more content now please!!

I personally want to see a lot more content well before the expansion pack. I'm bored now!! I don't want to have to wait 6mnths or a year! Tonight I watched a clan-mate quit. :( That's 4 friends gone in a week. They all said they're too bored!!

In a month I've lost about 10 friends already, due to being bored. It wasn't about the xp changes or paying more money or wanting a new server. It was about boredom and not wanting to pay for being bored.

I'm not just complaining.. I posted ideas I have for content here:
http://forums.ac.turbinegames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2899

I was trying to start a more constructive approach instead of just complaining.

Re: 2) Discount for multiple accounts. Reward the guys that are fanatics!

I'm a fanatic. ;) I've played AC since June 2000. I'm not sure how much longer I'll be a fanatic though. It's hitting me how often I am bored or saddened by departures of friends.

Running my clan is why I have 4 accounts {trade bot, buff bot, storage and rank mules}. 4 accounts are costing me $40 now. They will cost me $52 when the price goes up. I will most assuredly have to drop an account. I am struggling with the cost now, so it's more likely I will drop at least two. So unless Turbine offers a multi-account offer, Turbine will be getting only approx 55% of what I am paying now.

I'm here for my clan, my friends, and because I love looking after my clan.. I guess I'm just a mother-hen! I'm not finding the game so exciting any more and once my clan goes.. I go.

I hope you'll take these points back to the appropriate Turbine channels for consideration IBN! :)

They are valid points summing up what your players are asking for.

Opti :cool:

[MIdnightFire7]

7) Bigger patches with more content now please!!

More content would be nice, but unfortunatly for me i have dail up. It takes me an hour to allredy install patches. If I had cable though more content would be great.

[Kasim]

Well I think the price increase is ridiculous.

The amount of downtime the servers have had since Turbine took over is untrue - clearing dungeons because of lag, taking them down for hotfixes, etc. is all completley detremental to someone playing AC and then you want to charge people more????

I really think there aught to be some kind of compensation clause - i.e. if you can't play AC due to Turbines problems then you should get refunded or credited for an extra day. You may say this causes a huge inconvenience to Turbine but what about the inconvenience to us that we can't play a game we pay for?

Especially now that Leafcull has gone down and there's no one around to fix it - so why should we pay more?

All I see is that you now have AC back and want to get as much out of people as possible - AC2 is $12.99 but at least that's newer we are paying for a game that's over 4 years old we should infact in my opinion be paying less... you already have the servers so you don't need to pay for them, to maintain them does cost but obviously with todays episode you aren't paying anybody to do that either - or you've employed a 9 to 5 person who couldn't care less...

Oh and as the above person said - the patches - in this patch there was nothing - a few bits of new loot but where are the new dungeons? new monsters? new quests? there are none...

Sorry for the rant - but I just can't see how you can possibly justify this.


Kasim.

[Falron]

The price is not the issue with me.

Availibility of purchasing another Dark Majesty CD and key is.

If I have to upgrade my hard drive or format it for some reason I will not be able to get back into the game again due to the original is now lost (Thanks kids).

As for the new world, it would be nice to be able to see it installed as a more restrictive one where power leveling would be difficult at best and that the content would be geared more toward exploration with rewards (drops and/or quest items) having a chance for solo as well as the group hunts getting the equivalent in value (value as in usefullness) items.

Let some of the lower monsters (although a bit more rare) have the possibility of dropping loot equivalent to some of the higher level mobs.

This would reward the persistant less supported type of players so that they are not forced to join an allegiance in order to enjoy the game as well as the more solo types able to still contribute to an allegiance that they might belong to in any case.

[kgober]

March will be only the first month under the new pricing structure.

I'm planning to give Turbine two or three months at least, before I decide whether or not to reduce the number of accounts I pay for.

Right now, my 'reasons to keep all accounts active' list doesn't have anything in it.

My 'reasons to inactivate one or more accounts' list has:

1. the passup change has taken effect, making it much harder to level 74-78 trademules using existing level 86-92 'combat' characters. I understand that new players will have an easier time leveling trademules due to the increased direct passup, but this doesn't help me.

2. lag continues to be bad. I'm not talking about the unusual lag spikes that started last month, which I expect to be resolved soon. I'm talking about the general increase in lag that seems to have started four to six months ago. Or maybe it's been that way for even longer. In any event, I *perceive* a decrease in quality of service, even though I don't understand the reason for it.

3. we continue to see promises to improve the game, for its long-term benefit. this is all well and good, but why does it feel like these benefits will accrue to future customers, while they're made on the backs of the existing players? again, I don't understand where exactly this perception came from, but I somehow ended up with the impression that I'm paying extra to fund improvements to the game that will make it more appealing to *other* people, and *less* appealing to me. perhaps the problem is me. maybe I'm just not a true MMORPG player. I like playing on a world that has other people on it -- I'm just not particularly interested in interacting with very many of them.

We'll see what effect April and May have on my lists.

Please note, inactivating 'one or more accounts' means 1 or 2 out of 4. I am not considering (at this time) leaving AC completely. It continues to be the funnest RPG I've ever played (MMO- or otherwise). I'm simply talking about 'right-sizing' the cost of the game, when compared to the value I get from it.

-ken

[Zeds]

LOL

[Leslieo]

I only wish I could pay my subscription renewal fee.

My 4 1/2 year old account expired a week ago due to a change in credit card expiration date, and I haven't been able to renew it. Even though my complete payment history is linked to the account and viewable, I am continually prompted for a subscription code when I try to renew, as if it's a brand new account.

I've had three friends with working AC accounts log in to my account, and all experience the same endless loop in subscription renewal.

Zone billing seems to see little reason to solve the issue. I finally received somewhat decent help after 10 email messages, but there has been little or no assistance for three days. The escalated technical support offered suggestions to do all the things I'd already done (and detailed for them), except they offered the additional helpful tip that I should try a system restore.

I've called Microsoft directly and was told there's no phone support for Zone billing.

I have little confidence that Zone billing will follow through on their promises to get the account working--I have the impression they'd prefer I simply go away. This seems to be a rather odd way to treat a customer who wants to keep paying $$.

Leslieo

[Fiction_LC]

^ thats microsoft for you. just like there admins, Ask a problem 400 times get no reply. i remember being stuck in a hill for 2hrs once before they had the balls to go, Hi you need to quit sending so many msgs. Well get off your lazy *** and help out once in a while its your job.

[MissMae]

I don't know if this falls under your question, but I would like to know if you will announce the date you are going to change the sign in process from the Zone to your own system.

Thanks

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

thats microsoft for you. just like there admins, Ask a problem 400 times get no reply. i remember being stuck in a hill for 2hrs once before they had the balls to go, Hi you need to quit sending so many msgs. Well get off your lazy *** and help out once in a while its your job.

These things will likely continue to happen until Turbine returns to how things were "originally" planned, and they allow volunteer Asheron's Order of +Sentinels to return in force.

A paid +Admin cares only for his paycheque, and not for the player, since it's just a JOB. A Volunteer +Sentinel CARES about the players, since he works for FREE. There's a HUGE difference between the two, and as long as they keep the current system of having only 4 to 6 people to look after 10,000+ players on 9+ servers, and likely only 12 hours a day, there will always be these kinds of problems.

The old Zone Online Team consisted of over 400 Volunteers, made up of Managers, Chancellors, Sentinels, World Overseers, and Advocates. We likely don't need Advocates anymore.. or maybe we do... but we sure need +Sentinels again like we once had. At least 1 per server 24/7. When we had those Volunteers, people were notified and taken care of within FIVE minutes of placing the call, or at least they were notified that their call for help was acknowledged and someone would be with you ASAP. Now, you're lucky if you even get a reply within an hour.... 40 minutes after you logged off from total frustration. :mad:

We already know that Turbine has hired +Admins to take over once they go it alone, but again, these people are being paid a salary, and so their primary concern is the money, not the player's well-being. Only Volunteers truly care, because money is not an issue which clouds the brain. Volunteers also make much more JUST decisions on what action to take, because they're players themselves and understand the frustrations a normal player would.

I shall digress now, but you now know my viewpoints on this topic. This game also BADLY needs to be cleaned up in terms of all the foul language that permeates everywhere you go, and for the most part flourishes without any form of reprimandation.

If I had young kids, I certainly wouldn't allow them to play AC anymore due to all the blatant potty-mouth cussing.

[Dark_Stunna]

How about making this server the one server that we can move atleast one character too. That way Dt or FF or MT players can move here and battle it out with their pks.
Who cares about a new server, I don't wanna start all over again after all the time I put into my guy on FF. On Final Fantasy XI you can jump servers.

[Tanaga]

The Price Change: trivial
- It has been a long time at the same rate.
- I will be getting at least one more account in March.

The New Server: With the Exp neuter and the enforcement of the CoC as written, there is hope that lvl 126 noobs will not exist on the new server. Woot!!!

[MissMae]

The new server will bring new life to the game. Hopefully you are going to be marketing this as well.


Please don't release the new server till you are ready! Make it count.

I have seen a couple suggestions about bringing old characters over. Please never let that happen.

Fresh start for anyone going there. We don't need anything at all from the other servers.

[XviiX]

well
since I dont want to play HG (bored)
and can hardly play DT (cant afford it)
when this new server coming in? I cant wait to play
a lvl 1 noob again with no armor and no help again
(just like feb'00)
lets see those non red dot deaths rack up again
I had a lvl 36 sword, with 193 deaths casting 3s and 4s
in item/critter
yay lets go back there
on the new server

lets make sure we fix the loot generation so we can at least afford to die there ok?

this isnt a smart allik reply
its serious

[RavenOfDarkness]

First of all in regards to the price increase it was bound to happen. Every other role playing game online out there is more than AC so AC will be falling in line with some and cheaper than others..

A new server is great but please make it macro free, exp chain free, it would be fun to have a world like the "old" days, where we leveled together and worked together.. at least to start.. and dont just open up all housing at once.. open them up a few at a time that way we all have a chance to get some.. not all of us will play to ge to level 20 or 35 in one day so then we might be out of luck..and if new people come they need chances of getting some housing too.not everyone wants an apt..

[Grinless]

Originally posted by RavenOfDarkness
A new server is great but please make it macro free, exp chain free, it would be fun to have a world like the "old" days, where we leveled together and worked together..

Amen brother, amen.

- Grinless

[Dukak]

I think that the new server idea is awesome! I think that it is great that we are going to have a world that isn’t infested with thousands of 100+ level chainers. I have been away from AC for a year or more, but when I read that Turbine was taking over AC from Microsoft I decided to come back and see what good things were happening. I have been very pleased so far! I think that the treasure changes and XP pass-up changes are going to make a very positive impact on the game over time.

Unavoidably there will be people who don’t like these changes (especially those who enjoyed taking the easy road to level 126), but I agree with the other people who mentioned that the “mad” people are more inclined to comment on the changes. Many people who are happy with, or indifferent with, the changes just don’t take the time to respond and parrot the praise from other people.

Ibn, have there been any discussions about making a “roleplaying” server? I know that me, and several of my AC friends, would love to have a Roleplaying server.

As far as the price increase, personally I don’t care. During the year that I was gone, I tried several other MMOGs and almost all of them were charging $12.95 so I don’t think that’s a big deal. Especially if AC is going to be revived and brought back to the great game that it was in the past (IMHO)!

Keep up the great work! I can’t wait to see what other cool changes are in store.

[Ibn]

I'd love to see a roleplaying server as well, but I do not believe we have the resources to properly administer such a server. Just the naming convention rules alone could easily take up an entire warm body. :)

[camperman-x]

hire some poor highschool kid at 8$ an hour =P

[underpaidmexica]

They dont have enough players left to even start the new server much less a roleplaying server. In 6 months AC will be consolidating not expanding.

Ive been playing for 4 years and personally i think you need to worry about other problems and not another server

[rozy]

It's been stated that cost are increased and AC is the only one left only charging 9.95/month. The costs are not increasing! Only making your paychecks fat! Internet connectivity costs are going down! Server costs are going down!

SOOO... Let's charge more so we can make the paychecks FAT!

I don't know how many subscriptions you have for AC but, we are talking about, for example, you have 5000 (minus the DT accounts that are being quit) accounts. Your talking a monthly change from $49,750 to $64,750. $180,000/year.

Your planning on breathing new life into this game, with new keys/fresh blood and a new server. The bottom line: by the time your done messing with stuff, you will have to charge more like $20.00/month cause everyone that has been here a while, will be going bye bye.

GL with all of this. I don't know how much longer I'll stick around.

[Grinless]

Originally posted by Ibn
I'd love to see a roleplaying server as well, but I do not believe we have the resources to properly administer such a server. Just the naming convention rules alone could easily take up an entire warm body. :)

*Nod*

It would be good to have one up when AC make a return on the shelves, newcomer from other game have come to expect such server (and, to tell truth, a lot of the oldie like me would be totally overjoyed if this ever come to be true:) )

Be well,

[scunanick]

Personally, I don't think the game is now worth the price increase of subscription. I have yet to see anything worth an increase in the price. You've only messed the game up after the February patch by killing loot areas. And you expect me to pay more for you making the game worse?

[Naurausean]

i'm eagerly awaiting being able to buy AC again.

[Ezuriah]

Asheron'c Call, being hosted by Microsoft's Game Zone, was on a shared bandwidth server. Meaning, AC's conection was being shared with god knows how many other games. From Microsoft's standpoint, it was a cost issue. They weren't going to have dedicated lines for one game, it wouldn't be as profitable. This is something other online games didn't have to contend with, and thus suffered less lag as a result.

Turbine will be hosting AC in a new building, new location, I'm guessing they'll be running a T1 line for the server connections, at least that's what I'd do if I were them. This will practically illiminate the lag that's plagued the game for some time. The new building, a broadband connection, all new server hardware, these things cost money, they're not free. When you take these things into consideration, a price increase for subscription makes sense.

One thing I'd like to see Turbine do, and I've seen it done with other games, is to make AC downloadable. So new players can go to the AC site, download the game, and set up a new account online, without a key. It would save Turbine serious money, not needing to publish more game CD's.

Here's an idea: Instead of a new server, how about expanding the existing map to include more continents? It'd instantly add a serious amount of new content to the world as we know it. That would make a major resurgance of the oldest players in the game, keep them coming back.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

This is something other online games didn't have to contend with, and thus suffered less lag as a result.

Sorry, but... ROFL! I imagine you never played Anarchy Online, especially during beta and early retail? They had their own dedicated servers. Same for Dark Ages of Camelot. There was immense lag issues making the game feel like how you stutter around as when you first portal into a villa settlement.

This will practically illiminate the lag that's plagued the game for some time.

You're forgetting a key point here. IF you sit at the game server and play direct, (you and server only) you will experience zero lag (actually called Packet Loss/Degradation). Unfortunately, ALL of us who play AC don't get to sit next to the server with a direct feed into it... no, we have to go through something called the Internet, where, depending how far you live and/or what servers your ISP uses to get you to where you wish to go. Some people, like myself for example, get routed through 15 hops to reach Zone Servers, and I suspect when Turbine is setup that number will either stay the same or may even be higher. It's in these 15 hops that determine the lag (as you put it) experienced in-game, even if they used an OC48 server setup! lol

LAG is not determined by speed of server (well, maybe to a "small" degree). It's how you arrive there that does. Then once your signal arrives, for every action/move you make, the handshake data has to be sent back to you.

FSF

P.S. Go take a peek at the AC Connection Panel (green chainlink top right), you'll see that the word "Lag" does not exist anywhere therein.

[Ezuriah]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FmrSentFlatfoot
[B]This is something other online games didn't have to contend with, and thus suffered less lag as a result.

Sorry, but... ROFL! I imagine you never played Anarchy Online, especially during beta and early retail? They had their own dedicated servers. Same for Dark Ages of Camelot. There was immense lag issues making the game feel like how you stutter around as when you first portal into a villa settlement.

This will practically illiminate the lag that's plagued the game for some time.

You're forgetting a key point here. IF you sit at the game server and play direct, (you and server only) you will experience zero lag (actually called Packet Loss/Degradation). Unfortunately, ALL of us who play AC don't get to sit next to the server with a direct feed into it... no, we have to go through something called the Internet, where, depending how far you live and/or what servers your ISP uses to get you to where you wish to go. Some people, like myself for example, get routed through 15 hops to reach Zone Servers, and I suspect when Turbine is setup that number will either stay the same or may even be higher. It's in these 15 hops that determine the lag (as you put it) experienced in-game, even if they used an OC48 server setup! lol

LAG is not determined by speed of server (well, maybe to a "small" degree). It's how you arrive there that does. Then once your signal arrives, for every action/move you make, the handshake data has to be sent back to you.

FSF

Key words: how you arrive there. If the bandwidth is shared with a number of other games, as is the case with zone.com, it affects how AC can send and receive packets. if AC has a dedicated T1 connection for strictly AC, the performance will be better. This is not something I'm making up, shared bandwidth results in degraded performance. The T1 line connects the AC servers to the internet, much the same as a lot of ISP's connect to the internet. If the server can only get 1/10 of the packets to and from the source, it's one way of being lagged. It's not the ONLY reason, but anything that helps is better that not doing anything at all. I just had a chapter in college discussing bandwidths and connection types.

By the way, which dial-up service do you use? :P (couldn't resist that)

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

I guess you didn't notice me writing: LAG is not determined by speed of server (well, maybe to a "small" degree).

A while back there was someone who disagreed with everything I said, which was along the same lines as what we have here. Her argument was that she had just spent a ton of cash on a whole new top-line computer system, and wouldn't hear anything concerning the speed of her puter not totally removing the lag. heh... *shrug* Never heard from her again... maybe due to LAG issues? :eek:

Anyway, you can believe anything you wish, it's a well known fact that the "lag" is mainly generated by your connection and how far away you are from the server. We already know that if you're just outside the optimal range of your DSL Repeater, you're more than likely going to suffer a loss in performance. So on that note, I rest my case.

By the way, which dial-up service do you use? :P

Sorry that you're still on dialup. I switched to Broadband over 8 years ago, and never looked back. :)

[Heideggar]

Putting in a new world will give people a fresh new start as well as allowing those who join for the first time a chance to not join a world where they feel they have to climb the ladder, so to speak, to hunt with friends and allegiance members.

However, with all these changes you guys are making, it's hard to tell if going to a new server from an existing one is worth it or not.

Why go to a new server that has game content that is quite incomplete because of these drastic changes you guys are trying to make to the game?

I, for one, do not want to go to a server that offers leather to the players on creature up into the lvl 50-60 range. Nor, do I want to make a character that could be great at the beginning but then quickly be nerfed shortly afterwards by upcoming game balancing.


If I were you guys, I'd get all your shiz together about game balancing/changes in regards to major changes before you throw in the new server, expansion pack, and allow people to purchase more accounts.

However, that's just me looking at it from a development standpoint, which is what I do for a living.

[Ezuriah]

Originally posted by FmrSentFlatfoot
I guess you didn't notice me writing:LAG is not determined by speed of server (well, maybe to a "small" degree).

A while back there was someone who disagreed with everything I said, which was along the same lines as what we have here. Her argument was that she had just spent a ton of cash on a whole new top-line computer system, and wouldn't hear anything concerning the speed of her puter not totally removing the lag. heh... *shrug* Never heard from her again... maybe due to LAG issues? :eek:

I never said anything about the SPEED of the equipment once. I've been talking about not having to share bandwidth.

Anyway, you can believe anything you wish, it's a well known fact that the "lag" is mainly generated by your connection and how far away you are from the server. We already know that if you're just outside the optimal range of your DSL Repeater, you're more than likely going to suffer a loss in performance. So on that note, I rest my case.

There is no room for belief with the fact I state. Lag is caused by reduced packetflow, for whatever reason, no matter how close or far from a server you are. I will take the word of my professor over yours anyday, I know he is reputable.

By the way, which dial-up service do you use? :P

Sorry that you're still on dialup. I switched to Broadband over 8 years ago, and never looked back. :)

From what you've been arguing, there should be no difference between dial-up and broadband. You've been saying the only thing that causes lag is how many hops to the destination...

I agree with the fact that there's many other reasons for lag on the internet. The number of hops, the questionable state of some of the servers in some of those hops, etc. I'm not denying that these too, are factors that affect lag. But what you have mentioned, are not the ONLY reasons for lag.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

I never said anything about the SPEED of the equipment once.

Right, but I did to make another point about what someone else argued. Was there something you didn't catch in this?

I've been talking about not having to share bandwidth.

It's impossible in any situation to not have to share bandwidth, unless as I stated earlier you are sitting at the server console playing the game via direct input. The instant you leave the main console, you are now subjected to all sorts of outside interference.

I will take the word of my professor over yours anyday, I know he is reputable.

Likewise as would I. Not all professors share the same experience. Some professors teach professors to be professors. Maybe your professor needs a refresher course? ;)

What High Latency or Packet Loss Means

As interesting as this information is, you might be wondering how it affects you. When you browse the Internet, send an e-mail message, or download a file by P2P, you rely on the Internet transmitting and receiving data as quickly as possible. Latency slows this process down considerably, and if it reaches too high a threshold then a bottleneck occurs, preventing data reaching that continent at all. Packet loss is also detrimental to the Internet, although in most cases it is detected that the data is lost and it is automatically resent. If problems exist, web sites may be unavailable or e-mails will bounce back to you as undeliverable.

Causes of Problems

There are many reasons why problems on the Internet occur. Sometimes the companies that run the backbones experience downtime or computer problems, and that means data needs to be re-routed through less efficient channels. Recently Australia had problems because a virus spread so quickly that it literally filled backbones with data. Spammers that send millions of e-mails per minute can also cause backbones to fill with unnecessary data, preventing genuine Internet traffic from getting through.

From what you've been arguing, there should be no difference between dial-up and broadband.

You're the one that gave the impression you were on dial-up via asking me which dial-up provider I was using. In terms of differences, yes there's quite a difference, unless you don't mind that 150ms ping penalty for going up against broadband users. Of course, maybe you want to try Satellite to experience what it would be like to be playing on the other side of the earth. lol

You've been saying the only thing that causes lag is how many hops to the destination...

Not only, but mainly, and then back to the host which doubles the effect.

But what you have mentioned, are not the ONLY reasons for lag.

True, not the ONLY reason, but still the main ones. Anyway, end of line for me here, as we're just beating a dead horse. :D

[Opti_Silmara]

Originally posted by Ezuriah

Asheron'c Call, being hosted by Microsoft's Game Zone, was on a shared bandwidth server. Meaning, AC's conection was being shared with god knows how many other games. From Microsoft's standpoint, it was a cost issue. They weren't going to have dedicated lines for one game, it wouldn't be as profitable. This is something other online games didn't have to contend with, and thus suffered less lag as a result.

Turbine will be hosting AC in a new building, new location, I'm guessing they'll be running a T1 line for the server connections, at least that's what I'd do if I were them. This will practically illiminate the lag that's plagued the game for some time. The new building, a broadband connection, all new server hardware, these things cost money, they're not free. When you take these things into consideration, a price increase for subscription makes sense.

That's my hope too Ez. I agree with you on the Microsoft issue. I do hope that Turbine is going to run on a good connection with new equipment. If they do and provide a better lag-free gaming experience (within what they can control of-course), then I will then believe it was worth some of the extra cost. I'd also like to see some improvement on software performance and less bugs.

Originally posted by Ezuriah One thing I'd like to see Turbine do, and I've seen it done with other games, is to make AC downloadable. So new players can go to the AC site, download the game, and set up a new account online, without a key. It would save Turbine serious money, not needing to publish more game CD's.

I assume you mean AC DM. It is downloadable free now as the original AC. They're making it downloadable as AC DM too for a price. Also you can play the original now with all the AC DM features.

Um.. it doesn't save Turbine money to make if free. You have an account to use without the game on AC DM? If you have an existing account, you either have AC DM already or have been given/sold the use of the acount by someone else. So Turbine makes a profit out of that because you must purchase the game. How would it profit them to give you or anyone else the game free in this case?

Originally posted by Ezuriah Here's an idea: Instead of a new server, how about expanding the existing map to include more continents? It'd instantly add a serious amount of new content to the world as we know it. That would make a major resurgance of the oldest players in the game, keep them coming back.

Good point. That would be sweet! Maybe each patch could have a bit more of new continents? :) Perhaps tho that's what they intend for the expansion pack too.. and why we're not seeing this now?

Nice post Ez.

Opti :cool:

[Ezuriah]

I assume you mean AC DM. It is downloadable free now as the original AC. They're making it downloadable as AC DM too for a price. Also you can play the original now with all the AC DM features.

Um.. it doesn't save Turbine money to make if free. You have an account to use without the game on AC DM? If you have an existing account, you either have AC DM already or have been given/sold the use of the acount by someone else. So Turbine makes a profit out of that because you must purchase the game. How would it profit them to give you or anyone else the game free in this case?

It costs money to make the disks, manuals, etc. Then there's distribution, and a lot of outlets are leary of stocking games that exceed a certain year... Having a file available on an FTP server is nothing compared to publishing.

I know of another MMORPG game that's gone the route of making the game available for a free download (I won't mention the name out of respect for Turbine), then you set up an account online.

Kind of annoying that I can't start another AC account by simply signing up, gotta enter a CD key*. Sort of deprives them of another monthly income. The real money is in subscriptions and keeping the people interested in the game.

* If there's another legitimate way of setting up a new AC account I'd really like to know :)

[AC_Addict]

I'd like to see a new server where Life and Creature "other" spells have been eliminated.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big buffbot fan, but it might be nice to have a toon or two in a world where everyone has to self buff or no buff.

[Pigdog]

actually realm is still 4.95 so I guess maybe ya are right about it being the last 9.95 one... well guess this is my last month then

[zang_72]

:mad: I think that raising the subscription right now is suicide for AC as the number of people online has been dwindling in the last 6 months. I've been on since the beginning and will now cancel my account as I feel that an increase after so long is more of a slap in the face to those who have paid for so long. There is no way that with the lame updates in the last year that it can be costing all that much to keep the obviously low rate staff. I think that a price reduction is what is needed to get MORE people playing again. Many of the people in my allegiance have left out of boredom. Do you think they'll come back because the price went up???:confused: I don't think so. Bye AC, it was fun the last 4 years but I guess this is it............. :(

[xanth]

Feel free to flame away but....

I am truly amazed by some of you that are whining about this very small price increase... its nothing lol. Are you on welfare or what ? because if you cant afford a few extra dollars a month then you are truly pathetic.
Compare the AC fee to going to the movies or something similar which gives you a few hours enjoyment at best and costs more then paying for a month of AC.
yes, i do realize that some are kids but come on thats what parents and/or odd jobs are for lol.

As for the new server i will be switching over asap, i cant stand all the loser xp chain people and macroers on my current server.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

because if you cant afford a few extra dollars a month then you are truly pathetic.

Whoa! People are pathetic because maybe they can't afford a few dollars? I bet you're the type that walks by a starving street person asking for a few cents to stay alive, to go get a job, or to get lost because they're pathetic?

Now that's just pathetic.

:mad:

[zang_72]

Maybe I wasen't clear. Its not only the money, its the fact that the game has gone stale AND they think that charging more is going to fix it.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

The game hasn't gone stale; people have become too spoiled with the automation that Decal and Plugins have provided.

[Sabresiberian]

If you figure 2.5% inflation for the last 5 years, inflation alone means you should raise your price about 13% since the beginning price.

You also have added support to the game that I can see would cost more (Envoys, etc.)

Since you are raising your price by about 30% I assume you decided you want more profit too :)

Nothing wrong with that, $12.95+(fees and taxes) is something I'm willing to pay. Since I have 2 accounts my monthly expenditure will go up from $21 to $27, about.

What I don't like is the pretense that the only reason you are raising prices is because your costs are higher. There's no need for the lie, harmless as it may be. We want you to make good money because we want to keep playing a quality game :)

Thanks for adding the 'new world' part to AC1 :) Hopefully there will be plenty of new things to do for my L126+ character there :)

[Sabresiberian]

Just caught this allusion from another poster out of the corner of my eye.

What causes games or anything to 'go stale' is primarily 'it's been done before'. Player laziness has nothing to do with this.

For example, way back when I discovered the 'subway' I was thrilled - had enormous functionality, an interesting path, and some danger - I could even get killed! :)

Now, I have no interest in trekking the 'subway path' to the ports except to get there. I don't 'hate' the subway, I just am not entertained by going through the same steps I've gone through literally thousands of times by now.

So I would like to see a 'subway recall' spell that we could learn above a certain level of character that would drop right in the middle of the ports.

Reminding people to explore off their 'beaten path' is a good thing, I just don't think calling people 'lazy' in the process is helpful to anyone :)

[Opti_Silmara]

Originally posted by FmrSentFlatfoot
The game hasn't gone stale; people have become too spoiled with the automation that Decal and Plugins have provided.

Ah.. I beg to differ there! I didn't use decal for years. I've played almost 4yrs and used decal for the first time a year ago. I was at the point the game was becoming more of a chore than fun. I would log on and so many would want buffs and help, and even if I escaped that, trying to have fun was impeded by long buff-cycles. So then BS2 became a savior to the game for me. It isn't a matter of being spoilt. I'm here to have fun. It brightened the game again for me. All that spell casting and hitting the keys over and over becomes so tedious without it.

Last night I got taught how to use el tank and UST better for the salvaging. Salvaging has become a tedious time-consuming chore taking the fun away for me. I haven't ever used el tank for ucm. I see that as pointless and for people who forget what gaming is about. However el tank is great for so many things!! .. and finding it could help me so with salvaging last night was a big boon to my gaming again.

I consider decal saved this game. I don't think it spoiled the game for people. It adds to their enjoyment. Really Turbine should employ some of the developers of these plugins and include them as part of the game IMO! :)

A game is to have fun. When something improves the game so it isn't tedious and more enjoyable, freeing you up for challenges, then it's something that should have been there in the first place. It's a savior to my fun in AC, and I think for many others.

PS: I agree on the game is not 'stale'. However it does need an freshen up.. lots of new content! ;)

Oh and cost is an issue for me. I could not afford to carry 4 accounts. I was struggling already. I am so into this game, I have 4 accounts, but last night had to unsuscribe 3 until I can afford it again. It would help me a lot if they introduced a multi-account reduction.

Opti :cool:

[Stonefree]

yes i would have been great with a server with no buff other spells.

then they didnt need to fix the pvp issues either hehe.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

I'll admit that the plugins that remove the tedium of buffing, operating tradeskills, tinkering, salvaging etc., is great. But the game wasn't designed for automation. What would happen if they just removed the ability to use Decal? You say the game would've died without these tools.. well, take them away and it surely will now, because people would be LOST. People wouldn't even know HOW to buff themselves, and making anything via alchemy/cooking/fletching? LOL They'd be utterly lost.. they'd have NO clue how to make things manually, they'd have to resort to actually visiting Maggies or other sites to learn what makes what! Take my eyes off the game and actually have to think with my own brain?! OMG! That's far too unreasonable! I'll just quit this dumb game!

Back when Turbine changed the client and it took a week for them to fix Decal? Everyone was LOST... people would log in asking "is decal fixed yet"... they were told "no", and then they logged out again. What a laugh!

So that's what this game needs... removal of the tools... force people to learn HOW to do for themselves, because we've all gotten LAZY.

That's my opinion.

Oh and cost is an issue for me. I could not afford to carry 4 accounts. I was struggling already.

So what if you walk into the grovery store tomorrow and all the things that you like to eat have gone up 30%.... are you going throw up your arms and say, oh well.. I guess I'll just have to stop eating, or only eat 25% of what I need to survive!

If a few dollars is going to break you.. then maybe it's time to quit altogether.

[Arch Magi]

Personally don't care about another world other than it give me a chance to "trade" another Rank Mule for someone who wants to start over.

I have too much time invested in Harvestgain to move to "just another copy of the same old world".

Now if there was something DIFFERENT (like NO XP passup, and/or no 3rd party plugins, etc), then maybe I'd consider it.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

Now if there was something DIFFERENT (like NO XP passup, and/or no 3rd party plugins, etc), then maybe I'd consider it.

Add in the removal of FOCI, and bring back spell research using standard comps with ALL NEW formulas to attain the same spells as other servers. LOL

Would you still wanna go? :eek:

Heck why stop there? Remove all town portal gems in starter towns, plus the ones sold my Master Archmages (including the 20K Gem to return to Master Archmage). Y'know, make things like they were in the old days. Wanna get somewhere? Start running! lol

It won't happen though... too much work.

[Opti_Silmara]

Originally posted by FmrSentFlatfoot
I'll admit that the plugins that remove the tedium of buffing, operating tradeskills, tinkering, salvaging etc., is great. But the game wasn't designed for automation. What would happen if they just removed the ability to use Decal? You say the game would've died without these tools.. well, take them away and it surely will now, because people would be LOST. People wouldn't even know HOW to buff themselves, and making anything via alchemy/cooking/fletching? LOL They'd be utterly lost.. they'd have NO clue how to make things manually, they'd have to resort to actually visiting Maggies or other sites to learn what makes what! Take my eyes off the game and actually have to think with my own brain?! OMG! That's far too unreasonable! I'll just quit this dumb game!

Back when Turbine changed the client and it took a week for them to fix Decal? Everyone was LOST... people would log in asking "is decal fixed yet"... they were told "no", and then they logged out again. What a laugh!

So that's what this game needs... removal of the tools... force people to learn HOW to do for themselves, because we've all gotten LAZY.

That's my opinion.

Oh and cost is an issue for me. I could not afford to carry 4 accounts. I was struggling already.

So what if you walk into the grovery store tomorrow and all the things that you like to eat have gone up 30%.... are you going throw up your arms and say, oh well.. I guess I'll just have to stop eating, or only eat 25% of what I need to survive!

If a few dollars is going to break you.. then maybe it's time to quit altogether.

Excuse me.. but your arguments lack any common sense to me. For a starter I mentioned I played AC for 3yrs without decal. When decal went down I was in there playing anyway, I was manually buffing myself and others.

This is a game. It's meant to be FUN! The only sensible thing you say here is to agree tedium of buffing and doing trade skills is not always fun. This isn't education or work... It's a game! If people choose to relieve the tedium with third-party applications then good for them!

As for if they will know how to do it, so? I know because I enjoy knowing and being able to do it if decal isn't there. What right do you have though to decide people are stupid or not using their brains if they actually don't wish to play the game this way? Maybe they know, and maybe they don't. So what! You're throwing insults around with the comment on using your brain. That's their choice. If they don't, maybe it's because they use their brains all day to work and now just want to relax? I'm not going to pass judgement on how they play just because I know how to and enjoyed figuring it all out. Why should you?

You also appear to be assuming they actually don't know!.. Maybe they do? I know for a fact one of my clan members is well-versed in the game, can manually buff and make arrows but he didn't want to play at that time because for him without decal it's too tedious. Really.. what good does it do to insult? It's not productive is it?

In relation to what you say here:

"So what if you walk into the grovery store tomorrow and all the things that you like to eat have gone up 30%.... are you going throw up your arms and say, oh well.. I guess I'll just have to stop eating, or only eat 25% of what I need to survive!

If a few dollars is going to break you.. then maybe it's time to quit altogether."

I find this a very illogical argument. For a starter I am not quitting!.. and definitely would not because some illogical thinker is telling me to!

If the groceries went up in my local store, I'd shop elsewhere or not buy the over-priced products there.

In the case of the game I've cut down the amount of accounts I have suscribed because it is too expensive for me. That's my solution. I don't wish to quit as I enjoy being with my friends and playing this game. I love running my clan. I pay for this game so have a right to ask them to consider a deduction on multi-accounts IF they want me to resuscribe my other accounts. That's good business.

Perhaps your argument has something to do with not being able to afford more accounts yourself?.. or perhaps you just like riling people. Definitely you go on the attack and something is behind it.

Highly illogical there.

Opti :cool:

[AndyUSAF]

Everyone that uses decal and other plugins are getting a little too worked up here. Nobody wants to ban the use of all plugins on every server. I think the issue began as "the ban of any 3rd party apps on the new server for those who want to play without bots" Nobody wants to strip every server of the 3rd party apps. That would for sure be the end of AC. Hey if decal or any other 3rd party app makes the game more fun for you, good for you. There are just some of us who want to begin over again on a server with a level playing field and without people using 3rd party apps. So why are people complaining about that? if you are using any of these programs on another server and nobody is threatening to take that away from you. but simply saying to have an extra server free of bots would be nice for those who don't want them arround. Why are the users of these programs getting so worked up. It does'nt concern you if others are playing on a server where you cant use your decal. Stay on the server you're using decal on.

I just want to play an unspoiled game again. Some people like the trade bots. I would rather stand in the Sub for a while and negotiate prices and trades with people like back in the day. Some like the buff bots. I would rather see more people training their own magic skills at low levels and relying on friends or their own skill to buff.

So if you like the bots and stuff thats cool man, but if you like the absence of them like myself we can only hope that the new server will be free of them.

[Sax]

What's with a name for new world?
Wasn't there a contest , and who won?
What is/would be the prize for you name entry winning?
(free month?)
"This spring" is too general!!!
Give more data..........need more data. !!!!

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

Opti:
Excuse me.. but your arguments lack any common sense to me.

Maybe that's because you failed to notice my statement was generalized to include others, and not only you. Besides, some of the people who logged in when decal was down, were people who had played right from day one of retail. They had just gotten so lazy from tool usage, that they forgot how to do things manually. That's like forgetting how to ride a bicycle... and you have to ask yourself, WHO forgets HOW to ride a bicycle? Pretty sad... People like that should quit the game. lol

This isn't education or work... It's a game! If people choose to relieve the tedium with third-party applications then good for them!

Yep, it's a game. But when they forget HOW to do things manually when the third-party tools no longer function, what then? Quit? Don't play until they're fixed? What if they can't fix it for 2 weeks? Throw half a month fee down the toilet? There's the illogic you throw at me, not realizing where it belongs.

What right do you have though to decide people are stupid or not using their brains if they actually don't wish to play the game this way?

Because you cannot rely on third-party tools that the game developers claim they won't support. When you rely on them and they're removed from being usable, the design by which the developers intended for how things are supposed to work are LOST, and the people who never used them are LOST along with it. You can't see this? If Turbine doesn't support such third-party tools, they're within their right to remove any possibilty of them to function.... at their discretion. Therefore people should learn how to do things for themselves and not always rely on automation.

You also appear to be assuming they actually don't know!

A lot of them don't! lol

I know for a fact one of my clan members is well-versed in the game, can manually buff and make arrows but he didn't want to play at that time because for him without decal it's too tedious.

It's his prerogative if he chooses, but again you're missing my generalization. I'm not talking mainly about old timers who DO remember, I'm talking about old timers who have forgotten from sheer laziness, and especially those who only started playing AC after decal was part of everyday existence, and never learned how to do things manually for themselves.

what good does it do to insult? It's not productive is it?

Who's insulting? Truth sometimes hurts... and those who hold it back are guilty of allowing people to become even more hurt in future. Sometimes constructive criticism can be a good thing, if people choose to take note.

I find this a very illogical argument. For a starter I am not quitting!.. and definitely would not because some illogical thinker is telling me to!

You appear to have a fetish with the word illogical? The illogic is in people who cannot concieve of a generalized (not personal) statement in getting a point across. *shrug*

If the groceries went up in my local store, I'd shop elsewhere or not buy the over-priced products there.

*sigh* Um, usually when prices go up in stores, it's because the market price also went up. This means every store's price would have gone up. So my original comment stands, would you then stop eating?

I pay for this game so have a right to ask them to consider a deduction on multi-accounts IF they want me to resuscribe my other accounts. That's good business.

For the pittance of $3.00, something that you didn't have a problem paying $10.00 for previously? No, that's not good business. That's suicide for a business. But maybe your logic would dictate that a food store should give you a price reduction for buying multiples of the same item(s)? Doesn't work that way either, unless there's an in-store weekly special.

Perhaps your argument has something to do with not being able to afford more accounts yourself?..

When did I mention my accounts and what I'm paying for? Duh.... No, I'm quite content with sharing FOUR accounts with my partner, and will continue to pay for them, even if they raised it to $15/month. I enjoy the FUN of this game, and I'd rather pay $60/month for AC, than to go waste it watching some stupid new movie in a theatre that does nothing to truly entertain me, and only lasts for 2 hours. Not to mention sitting in a theatre is uncomfortable, stinks from all the vaious odors (popcorn, other foods, people farting, etc.), and a hassle to find a parking space (which you also have to PAY for).

Highly illogical there.

Ah yes, there's your favourite word again.

Ciao.

[FreezingInferno]

If they removed Foci, brought back research, made some monsters not show on radar, took away rending imbues, and removed decal I would still go to the new server... in fact, if they did that, I would definitely go, and get my friends to join me.

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

What a wonderful idea, FreezingInferno... I think I might just have to join you. :)

[XviiX]

so....
open the new world already
me and several people already have a plan on how to "make it"
work being noobs again with no bots (we experimented on WE and SC)
we are going to start fresh and only play in house (our clan fellows only) to maximize the exp going to the buff bot and the tinker mule (direct vassel passup, not the chain for you criers)
we will be the first set of 126s on the new server if it kills us!!!

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

XviiX:

I'd wager there's a whole pile of others thinking the exact same thing, and how to attain it.

What I don't understand though, is that you're already thinking how you want to be the "first" 126's there! That's terribly ego-driven.

Why not just focus on having FUN, and nevermind about a silly number, because that's all it is, a number. All it does it generate a holier-than-thou attitude as if to say "Look at ME, I'm Uber, I'm special".

<vomit>

[torak101]

My 2 cents

I'm not to bothered by the price increase if appropriate changes are made to increase the value of the game - play. Turbine appears to making moves in the direction they feel are in the best interest of the game.

The main thing that concerns me is third party apps. The entire reason they exsist is because there was an outcry by the community for an improvement in some way shape or form. If turbine makes the improvements, then there should be no need for the third party apps.

Many of the "apps" are exploits anyway. House finders, loot finders, monster finders all of these things are not in the spirit of the game anyway. AC is probably the only large game you will see third party apps accepted. Most games at least make a token appempt to remove them. Almost all games take corrective action to remove the reason of the exploit.

Bots,
I use bots also. In fact i rarely go out without thier buffs. What are bots? An exploit. Bots are the communities answer to an outcry of a more streamlined magic system. Once Turbine addresses this, you will see the bots disappear.

I've played AC for over 2 years and the game has gone through a huge amount of change in that time, some good some bad. Those of you who say leave it alone its not broken need to look back on the patch histories to see all of the changes. The magic system alone is a testement to that. Change has been constant in AC. As the average character level has been driven up (mainly because of the lack of new blood and interest in the game) content has been having to gear for higher and higher levels.

A new server
I would like to know why there is a need for a new server. Populations are nothing near what they were two years ago. I'm guessing Turbine has big plans for this expansion.

Change for AC is necessary,
In fact the game will slowly die if nothing is done. AC is one of the coolest most dynamic games out there. You want to cry about level grinds, travel times, loot nerfs and PvP imbalance...play Dark Age of Camelot for awhile. Good lord talk about a boring unbalanced game. EQ is no better, you think levelling is slow or a grind in AC, I challenger you to try any of those games for a month. I played DAoC for a year and have 2 maxed out toons. I have to honestly say, I never really liked the game the way I liked AC.

Why is change necessary?
The market demands it. You demand it. Otherwise the player base would not be shrinking.
New blood wants graphics at least on par with the rest of the market. Content that will draw them in, just like it did to us a few years ago.

Good hunting!

[WarriorWraith]

To IBN and the Turbine Crew:

First and foremost, I wish to give you my extreme thanks for providing me with 3-1/2 yrs of daily entertainment. I have never played or enjoyed a game as much as I have AC1. I have met many people in game and have a wonderful time with it. I always look forward to the monthly updates and the hours spent in the AC Chat Rooms on update day listening to all the whining and gnashing of teeth that goes on there during patch day. Needless to say I never bring enough cheese to the monthly "Whine & Cheese Party" on patch day. I intend to continue to play AC1 with the 4 accounts that I currently have active.

Many people posting here have shared their questions and concerns over the new server you are going to bring on-line and about the price increase for AC1, which I know darn well is based on the current economic situation in our country.

I am looking forward to the next "Expansion Pack" that you are planning for AC1. I will tell you that it is long overdue, when comparing the expansions of EverQuest and Dark Ages of Camelot.

I would hope that with any new expansion pack and graphics update, that you realize that many of these users are not going to go out and buy new hardware just to run the expansion. Making AC1 run on AC2 type graphics updates would be a wonderful thing, but should not be costly to the end user.

One thing that in my humble opinion has taken away from the game that you originally designed, was that the balance of power and updates have shifted from everyone getting a piece of the action to it only going to a certain group of people, many who are over Level 126 in game now. Sure, I agree that content to keep them active is a necessity, but you have let the lower level crowds fall through the cracks recently.

On the PvP world (DarkTide) the use of Unattended Combat Macroing has been a necessity due to the fact that many opposition players are well over the 150+ Level range. Your current modus operandi (mode of operation against UCM'ers) is a bit disturbing. Many people feel that unless you do something to inhibit the high level chars, most of the -100 level crowds will be placed at a severe disadvantage. I would agree that maybe level restrictions might be needed in PvP fights, eliminating the ability to kill 10-15+ levels below you, forcing high level players to square off against each other fairly and not allowing them to take advantage of low level chars.

One of the worst things a business can do is not listen to their customers. You guys have an obligation to listen to your player base. You don't have to always agree or disagree with the players, but you must remember that they are the one paying the bills. I would suggest that you consider "envoys" for these boards of yours to bring more answers more swiftly. Its not nice to fool mother nature or your players. Quicker responses to questions raised here would be in your best interests.

To the Turbine Team, I want to say "GOOD JOB" everyone. I do wish that you folks would interface more with GameSpot and other gaming magazines about AC and your other upcoming products. Lack of press equates to a smaller number of subscribers. You want a new server up and running, you need to populate it and to do that, you need new subscribers to enter the game.

I'm no PR person, but I am a business man in the computer industry. I've seen lots of schemes come and go, but none work better than good old honest work. If you have to justify a rate increase, do it to promote AC as your PRIMARY product and get the interest in the game going again. You get AC1 full, and AC2 going strong, then MEO will take off and you'll be on top of things. But you cannot do it without PRESS COVERAGE.

Thanks for Listening.

You are in my prayers and 1st on my list of games to play.

Sincerely,

WarriorWraith

[LulThyme]

Hello,
I might not be able to phrase my ideas as clearly as I would like to.
I am a returning player. A few of my old friends might also.
The reason I am returning is because of the news of the new server.
I followed what has been happening in AC the past 2 years, and I can see Turbine has put a lot of effort every month on making the game the best they could, even it if it was a bit misplaced in some occasions.
The problem is that many changes which are very positive, xp chain nerfing, etc... seem to be causing problems because ppl say it divides people in those that used them and those that didnt't and they will forever separated.
This might be true, but I think this is the whole point of the new server. There has a few MAJOR changes in the last few months, (xp passup, loot changes, monster xp) and a lot of polishing up. In old server mentality this creates a few problem, but viewed from the poitn of a new server this all makes perfect sense.
Which brings me to my main point : if Ibn or anybody else from Turbine see this, YOUR MOST IMPORTANT GOAL SHOULD BE NOT TO REPEAT MISTAKES ON THIS NEW SERVER.
I think AC is at a crossroad right now, where it can garner a new influx on this new server. Lots of people are enthousiasted about it, on acvault the board for it has more posts than all other servers, etc..
Of course the population of AC has dwindled a lot, but this could be the way to bring everybody left together, and some new and returning too, so we could reach critical mass to have a good community.
So what does Turbine need to do:
-Finish up their plan : polishing loot system, newbie towns etc etc (I wont go in the details here, I think they are doing a good job (from a new server pov )and will accomplish this)
-dont repeat the mistakes : I expect a very hard and active stance on UCMing and similar things on the new server. this in fact is what will make or break the experience for me. I quit the game jsut when Ucming was starting, and reading other people's post has made me believe that I wouldnt be able to play in the current environment. Turbine needs to make sure that the same things doesnt happen on the new server.
- I dont actually believe this will happen, but I think they need to find a way for the community to hang together. I was for removing settlement portals altogether, (I think the whole housing business\marketplace is what split up the community) but thats secondary.

So if Trubine can finish up their current work, and get a good grip on the new server (very firm and active stand on UCMING) It will be a fun experience for me...

[Downfall970]

i agree the price change since it is necassary and really not that high for a game of this quality :cool: , but adding a new server isnt really showing ur commitment to us at all, its showing ur just adding more room for more players = more money.

a new expansion pack or a very major game update (ideally something new, like a quest or a storyline jump, since all the updates have been weapon stuff, rending, slayer, time for something different) would be showing ur commitment to us. just a thought.

[Diavo]

I think that the idea of the New Server somehow making it so third party programs wouldnt work would be a great idea. That way there could be no macroing, and no automated money making exploits. I'd even say to make it so no decal programs could work on the new server so that tradebots wouldnt clog up marketplace and there would be a return to a simpler time of AC. the only negative i can think of is that such programs like BS/2 Enhance the gameplay by aiding the player to find the things that the player is interested in. Maybe if there was a way so that people would have the option for a text output of what is in corpses, since i know that with lag it can sometimes take 5 mins to check a single corpse by right-clicking each item... Anyways just an idea for the new server. I personally would move to the new server if this was implemented but i'd probly still also play my original server too.

TY for creating these forums that gives us a place to give our input.

[Markus]

New Server must = no 3rd party programs allowed.

Done.

[CaptMorgan]

I just returned to AC 4 years later, after playing lots of other games between that time. I am really excited about the changes that are being made, for one.

Originally, I had two pretty gimpy characters - my 4 school mage in particular had some large problems. Back in 2000 when Solclaim had just come out and I was playing, I was probably spending OVER HALF my active playing time either a) buffing, or b) buying comps. With the addition of the Foci and the greatly increased buff duration times, it's down to like 2%. Outstanding. I don't know how I even tolerated it in the old days like I did.

Er uh, anyway, I had one huge gripe about this game: how someone could make a crafting/buffing/whatever bot to any level they want abusing the allegience system. The new changes are very nice, and I'd settle for them over the old system any day. Personally, on the new server, I would like to see the allegience system further gutted (well, relatively) - just make it just like in AC2, where only active players get a good amount of exp from vassals (only a percentage of every level can be obtained from allegience exp for those unfamiliar with that system). I guess I couldn't see that happening though, as people are way too comfortable speccing every skill they can since they can just make a bot to fill in for trade/mage skills...oh well.

I was really taken aback by the usefulness of and functionality of the 3rd party programs. Many really do add an enjoyment to the game. Personally, I would love for the new server to not have them, however, as some go way too far (particulary money macros, UCM, etc) away from what I think is best for a MMORPG. However, I, and MANY other here need to realize it's IMPOSSIBLE to do that. Expecting Turbine to start stopping 3rd party programs is like demanding the weatherman to stop allowing it rain - they have no control of it. Scanning users' PCs is an extremely dangerous legal area (even with a EULA) that I highly doubt they would like getting in to.

I'm wondering if one server would be enough, judging by the amount of interest. Other servers will definately suffer, but I think we need to be frank - with all the stuff like money exploits, allegiance chain exploiting, changes in the game for the BETTER, we have to admit that the game had some badly broken systems (still, not bad for a first gen MMOG that wasn't just an online version of a long existing computer game line (UO), or just a conservative blatant D&D ripoff (EQ)), maybe it's "good riddence".

Either way, I'm excited by these changes. Very refreshing after dealing with the complacence that is dominant in almost every other MMOG (COUGH DAOC LETS TAKE 12 MONTHS TO FIX STUFF COUGH).

[that guy]

I haven't played AC for well over a year but am considering coming back with the addition of the new server. so many people are asking for no macroers no decal blah blah blah. Something i would like to see but know will never happen is for turbine to actually balance the game. exept for the first half year or so that AC was out, there hasn't been such a thing as a melee character. all character are some sort of mage that uses a bow or melee weapon to do damage. its basicially impossible to play the game without having any magic. all characters turn out basically the same but with usuing different weapons. (that's enough)

[XviiX]

ok
me and my roomate have been playing AC on one account or the other 5 since aug 2000, and currently since apr 2002 on these accts
let it be known, WE WANT THE NEW SERVER!!!
let us know when plz, thank you

kyria/shai's magi

[XviiX]

Originally posted by FmrSentFlatfoot
XviiX:

I'd wager there's a whole pile of others thinking the exact same thing, and how to attain it.

What I don't understand though, is that you're already thinking how you want to be the "first" 126's there! That's terribly ego-driven.

Why not just focus on having FUN, and nevermind about a silly number, because that's all it is, a number. All it does it generate a holier-than-thou attitude as if to say "Look at ME, I'm Uber, I'm special".

<vomit>

lets just say this, if I make it to 126 the hard way, without chains, without tons of direct vassel passup, it is uber, dont talk smack about someone's ambitions just because you are jealous
thats not nice, keep your negativity to yourself thank you

and, for your info, fun to me is aspiring to be the best I can on the new server on what I already know about the game, I will use whatever resourses I can to make it

[XviiX]

Originally posted by FmrSentFlatfoot
The game hasn't gone stale; people have become too spoiled with the automation that Decal and Plugins have provided.

they cant remove the functionality of decal and the plugins
and I doubt they will even look into it
its hard enough to maintain the servers as is without having extra code in there differant from the normal ones,.
look at DT, if you were actually a bored player on a normal ac world, you have at least a few mid lvls there
my hats off to the devs for thier being able to maintain a separate code base to this actions
now I ask, what will it take to maintain yet ANOTHER separate code base to do what you want ( remove decal ).....
what a laugh, you have no idea, accept it, decal is prolly on your computer, and you prolly buff with tank or nb2, and use all sorts of other plugins, you just wanted to be able to gripe about it.

I love this game, I have been to others including ac2 and they just dont measure up......I can say with perfect ability that I prefer ac1, and I pay for the right to do so, just as you do

let the game evolve as it will, dont try to devolve it

remember april 2000, we were happy to get al 100 chainmail from bsd from our patrons.........................

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

XviiX:

because you are jealous

Jealous?! rofl... of your ego? I don't think so, bud. :rolleyes:

they cant remove the functionality of decal and the plugins
and I doubt they will even look into it

It's one or the other, mate... don't say "they can't", and back it up with "I doubt they will", as the two comments cancel each other out to begin with.

I'm sure if they "wanted" to, they could.

In one breath you say they can't, and in the next your "hats off to the devs for thier being able to maintain a separate code base " for DT. So what is it? Yes or no? As I said, can't have it both ways.

what will it take to maintain yet ANOTHER separate code base to do what you want ( remove decal )..... what a laugh, you have no idea

Quite frankly it would appear to be you who has no idea, when you continue to contradict yourself.

remember april 2000, we were happy to get al 100 chainmail from bsd from our patrons.........................

I remember April 2000. The hot spot was BDC, not BSD seeing as it didn't exist yet. :p

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

Heya Markus, I gotta agree with Dom and many others.

We despise and abhor UCMs or any other method people devise to cheat for their own profit, and also to jip others out of their enjoyment. But Decal has a great many good points going for it also.

I also use a program to buff myself. If Turbine brings out the ability to buff faster and more efficiently, I may go back to manual buffing, but for now the idea that I have to cast 100 spells on my Archer and 116 spells on my UA every 50 minutes is a real pain in the butt.

I also use Robochef to make my oils and various other things that I can make. Making 100 deadly fire arrowheads is very boring to do manual. Sure, I know HOW to do it.. but if the tool is there, why not use it?

Tinkering is another thing I use a plugin for. I don't use a LOT of plugins, and I still prefer manual salvaging (the horror of it!).

Apart from ways to cheat/exploit, Decal is a good thing. Now, in saying this, I do still think the NEW server should be 100% exempt of any tool usage, to give people the experience of what it was like back at the start of retail. I even suggested removing Foci and let everyone learn how to research their own spells (via changing all the words and comps needed for the same spells... so those coming from the old servers, who were around in the old days, couldn't just figure them all out within a couple hours hehe).... but realistically, that's not going to happen. That would take a LOT of extra coding.

So look.. you play without Decal, and don't worry about those of us who do use it. Turbine is getting serious now with the UCMs etc., so let them handle that end, and the rest who use the plugins for non-intrusive purposes, won't ruin your game one bit.

:)

EDIT: Oh hey, forgot to ask you, Markus, if you use an electric can opener? Why not use a manual one? -- How about a shaver, use a straight-razor? -- Do you drive? Why not use a bicycle... or wait, some might think that's an advantage.. so why not just walk? -- A Microwave oven? Why not use a regular stove... oops... that's still an advantage.. build a campfire out in the backyard? -- OMG, you're using a computer? I bet you use a mouse to navigate the screen huh? Why not just do it with your directional and Tab keys? It's possible, even if inconvenient.

I know, I know.. looks like I'm blowing it all out proportion and not being rational... but hey, anything that helps you to make mundane chores easier, must be cheating, right? :p

[Lloth]

A new world sounds good to me. I won't be playing it because of the lag-fest I predict it will be. Dunno. Plus I've worked a long time on my Solclaim characters to just throw them aside. In any case it will be interesting to see how the world develops with time no matter if its with or without decal. The fact that there will be no such thing as pre patch this or that, and no majors or uber items already there should really show who knows what they are doing and who is a lucky turd lol.

While reading this thread to see what people are saying, I'm finding it very hard to find any information that has much to do about the thread topic. Would be great if the moderators would do away with "Quotes" as most of what I read are people trying to sound more intelligent or whatever than the other person. And theres even one claiming to be a former Sentinel calling the gaming population lazy and ignorant lol. I've met only one envoy so far (and he/she was very kind and polite). I sure hope you guys aren't recruiting the angry sort this guy seems to be to watch over us.

[Doc Feelgood]

Subscription price for one account isn't going to make a difference, but it's going to make a difference for multi-account players in two areas:

a) Availability of bots. This is the most obvious. Many players pay for a bot account because accounts are cheap. As price goes up, the available bot will go down.

This is a problem because bots do make the game more fun. I use portal bots and buff bots all the time. If these go, I lose pleasure.

b) Doing tinkering/salvage Doing salvage, tinkering and trade skills takes a lot of inventory slots. Personally, I would do salvage with two computers and two accounts.

Now I won't, and my enjoyment has dropped.


Doc Feelgood

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

Lloth:

And theres even one claiming to be a former Sentinel calling the gaming population lazy and ignorant

Claiming? heh.. well, truth be known. Turbine knows who I am by my Zone ID, and since it's a violation to impersonate any present/past staff, employee, volunteer official of any sort, I guess I would've been banned long ago, huh? :p

Besides, Envoys are not Sentinels and vice-versa. Same general idea, except for the time-period. If I was an Envoy, I'd do the job as dictated by those in charge, as I did before. No partiality, no angriness, just the usual kindness and politeness, unless you were an assailant that needed to be dealt with in a harsh manner, as there are a number of those types also. :(

Yes, a lot of people have become lazy in this game. They want everything for no effort. Ignorant? Well, it all depends on the individual and how they perceive what they should be allowed to get away with, in a game which has "rules" that must be obeyed --- don't all games have rules? Real Life is a game, and it has rules also. ;)

I could be wrong, but your comments appear as trying to sound more intelligent or whatever than the other person.

Are you?

[Lloth]

You've made wonderful points and points that to me sound like your a bit upset FmrSent... =P

Either way, I address my posts to Turbine not to the other posters, please do not drag me into your "Im right, your wrong" posts. There are always two sides to every discussion or there wouldn't be one.

EDIT: Yes I'm a little new to the game. I didn't have the joy of multi colored tapers and no bots etc. So I can't say I know what a Sentinel was ~.O And every game I've played has lazy ppl in it lol. God Diablo2 had to be at least 3/4 "gimme" ppl.

As for as ignorant people playing lol. Some of us do this as a lifestyle or major hobby, others play casually. I about pulled my hair out when our first Harbringer quest had to be redone over and over again countless times due to one person that could NOT figure out how to shift jump!! ARGGG. As much as I'd have liked to call her a moron... well you get the point.

As for me trying to sound more intelligent than the next person... LOL I'm a hick in a small town that didn't even graduate high school... but at least I spell most of my words right =P Which brings me to ask... what goofball started the whole "PWN" thing that is a typo of "OWN" lololol that word bugs me to no end.

Good point on the plugins tho. I deffinately like my micro-wave oven =P

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

Upset? Me? Never! Getting upset over a game is for kids, and usually PK kids. But then isn't PK for kids, and mostly played by kids? *shrug*

I'm not dragging you into anything that you didn't already start with your Intelligencia remark. But I digress...

Yes, you appear to spell quite well for a hick (as you put it), but that doesn't surprise me, since you were likely brought up under much stricter guidelines than your averge city boy, who got all his honours and degrees from batting or kicking a ball around a field, and likely got batted in the head a few times to really get the knowledge to stick (or fall out). :D

Shift-Jumping is an artform in AC... requires MUCH practice to perfect. Most people just won't spend the time to learn how it's done, because they have better things to do... like fall in all the wrong places and hold up the rest of the fellowship; as you found out. :p

"PWN" yes.. now there's a doozer eh? lol There's also PWNT (no idea where the "T" fits in, but what do I know, I'm just a 49 year old fuddy-duddy.

To me there are words like "There", "Their", "They're".

To most others, the same would be "There", "There", "There".

:confused:

[MachFoo]

Burn the message official message boards to the ground with a flamethrower. Seriously, if you’re getting your input how people feel about the game and its issues from here, you’re drinking from a poison well.

First off, the real players will mostly be in the game playing. You should be in the game playing it with them discretely to see how the thing runs and what real players think.

I have NEVER seen any good come to a game from the forums, and I have seen many, for each game will have its forums. They are mostly populated with axe grinders who fall into mostly two categories, Cry Babies and Trolls.

The Cry Babies are never happy, they see someone else doing something that they aren’t or something that they couldn’t figure out, or something and then they bawl their little eyes out and scream to high heaven about the inhumane injustices of it all. If they had lives they might not stick their noses in everyone else’s. But after all, these kinds of games attract people with no lives, so this is a natural hazard to be aware of and avoid.

Next are the Trolls. These stick their big ugly noses into every comment and belch out inflammatory remarks all from the safety of anonymity, without consequences for their venom they spew. They are pompous, cretin-like, intellectual bullies at best, and damaging to everyone’s intelligence at worse.

Forums are the medium for which these germs thrive, and when fed attention from Devs and game developers they become an infestation. They breed and develop hybrids to plague the mind of the forums even more with the Troll-Cry Babies and the Cry Baby-Trolls that spring forth.

I implore you to clandestinely gather your gaming intelligence, to nuke these forums to ashes thus silencing the squalling mites that clamor for your attention. Unless you have some deep need for the attention of sycophants, and like turning a blind eye to the market environment that threatens to send your game to the financial grave, you need to ignore the cacophony these forums produce, and spend your time creatively with your own ideas.

Long ago, before corporations high jacked Role Playing games, the cabal of Game Master, a.k.a. Dungeon Masters knew how to run enjoyable games who’s only graphics were the imagination. All the great ones knew almost instinctively how to produce a world that was firm and fair yet entertaining. The mediocre ones, and the failures always ran their game by consensus. In the end, nobody respected their games, nor did they last as Dungeon Masters.

In short the Dungeon Master was God in that game. Nobody argued with God, nor did God ask for advice. God knew what was going on and was wise to everyone’s plans and was always able to deal with them for better or worse. God didn’t have to spend time petting anyone’s hurt feelings or stepping gingerly about. God worked on content. Though in a tight jam, for the better of all, God could be bribed with a pizza when he was hungry.

In closing, your accessibility breeds contempt. If player A knows he can get something, then he will worry about player B getting something better. Players are a selfish lot, all positioning for their own gains. You can never make all of them happy unless you give away the whole store to them all, even then, they will complain that it was too easy. They need their misery to make them happy about what they can righteously complain about. Just direct it within them and not at you and let the screaming politics of it all be part of the game.

Meanwhile, God is busy rolling dice behind his books and screens. He might answer you with a lightning bolt if you don’t shut up

[ExBowman]

Originally posted by MachFoo


Long ago, before corporations high jacked Role Playing games, the cabal of Game Master, a.k.a. Dungeon Masters knew how to run enjoyable games who’s only graphics were the imagination. All the great ones knew almost instinctively how to produce a world that was firm and fair yet entertaining. The mediocre ones, and the failures always ran their game by consensus. In the end, nobody respected their games, nor did they last as Dungeon Masters.

In short the Dungeon Master was God in that game. Nobody argued with God, nor did God ask for advice. God knew what was going on and was wise to everyone’s plans and was always able to deal with them for better or worse. God didn’t have to spend time petting anyone’s hurt feelings or stepping gingerly about. God worked on content. Though in a tight jam, for the better of all, God could be bribed with a pizza when he was hungry.


Meanwhile, God is busy rolling dice behind his books and screens. He might answer you with a lightning bolt if you don’t shut up

i registered JUST to say, THAT took me back to the good-ol-days...

ive been blasted by quite a few of thoes "out of the blue" lightning bolts back in the day...

there is NO way you can make a better game than (A)D&D (with a good DM). that said, AC(1) is THE next best thing.

i was an ADDICTED AC player for almost 2 years. i was addiction free for a while now but...(DLing game as i type/killing time here)

yes, i used decal and i will again. so i can buff while i eat microwaved pop-corn ;)...

see you in game (morningthaw)

PS hang tough Devs...i think all you need is some new grafix..

[FmrSentFlatfoot]

But after all, these kinds of games attract people with no lives,

Glad you could make it in here with all the rest of us! :rolleyes:

[Ibn]

Closing this thread as there have been more recent announcements on the new world topic. I don't want folks hitting this thread thinking that it's based on the latest information.