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[AC_Guy]

IS there any other way to get golden Grommies for mansions other then Casino's ?

Roughly there is a 2% chance to get a Pack Doll

There is about a 10% chance when you gamble it to get a Grommie.

So to get 20 Grommies you would need 100 stacks of HS Chips

This works out to 500,000,000 P to get them...

[vellus]

I am hoping for another use for the gromnies other than house purchase.

I have been hoarding them for ages now. Until this week I had no use for them, but someone bought them for a sing key each.

A casino is supposed to give a chance for a great reward, why not make the golden gromnies worth a level, or 50% of next level or something that when you get it, you think you hit jackpot...

[BadhMac]

" This works out to 500,000,000 P to get them... "

I'll sell some to you for only 250,000,000 ea.

[Widsith]

I know this wasn't your question, but remember, you get other items from the casinos. Think of how many items you would get to turn in to collectors for experience gambling that much. Sure, if you are a monarch looking for a mansion, the XP would be less than you earn in 30 minutes of hunting, but it could still be useful. Have all of your higher level guild members come to the casino and gamble until you have 20 golden gromnies. Then, give the trophies to low levels or rerolls in your guild. You could help a lot of members level pretty quickly that way. Or if your guild has a buff bot, give all the trophies to it. I levelled my sixth character several times gambling and it only cost me 12 MMD notes. Almost every chip I used netted me an item worth 5-10k XP. I also made a lot of money turning in the items I collected and made good money selling the items from the casino chest.

If my math is right, and it usually isn't, if you got unlucky and got an item that returned 5k XP for every token you handed in, you would earn 50,000,000 XP points. Not too bad of a return.

[Ryori]

AC_Guy - I think gromnies are more common than that. Maggies says 10% but I have always gotten more than that. But I'll go with your numbers.

Widsith - part of that is true, but part definately is not. The key word that is wrong is "quickly".

First you have to collect that much money. Thats 2000 MMD notes (don't forget the overhead in turning pyreal into notes). Say someone was still able to loot 1mil per buff - thats 500 hours of cash looting.

Second, the trophies do not stack and the mnems are not givable. If you got a toon mostly cleared out you could do 200 items per trip. I'm sticking with 200 also because it is reasonable to gamble and turn in 200 tokens/items in an hour. For the high stakes items, there are 5 NPCs you have to see - no single town has them all.

I looked at the %s for each item on Maggies and 200 tokens would give 3,660,000 XP. That comes out to 183 million XP. But 2.4 million (per hour) of that is in Mnems (32 - ob keys needed) . So you have only 1.2 million in givable.

So I need 500 hours of looting. 50 hours of gambling. Who knows how many hours to come up with 500 ob keys.

When we can make 3 million an hour hunting about anywhere at 30+ (have to be 30+ to turn in large mnems) this is a horrible return because of how slow it is.

I did gamble one toon recently for something different. In the short term it isn't bad - it was a fun change of pace. But over the long haul it quickly becomes a bad use of time and pryeal resources.

[Widsith]

Ryori - I was making the assumption that he has a monarchy to help him come up with the pyreals. I thought it would be a fun night for the monarchy, instead of a hunt, spend a night gambling and give the trophies you can give to some rerolls. They turn in the trophies and go up a few levels. The guild gets some golden gromnies, the rerolls level and get some money and maybe everyone has some fun. If they get a few golden keys too, some people could get some nice loot out of the night.

However, for one person, you are right, gambling would be a pain in the rear.

[Juzam]

yes..

take someone to the falcon banner dungeon and collect falcon banners and hafts.. combine them and when you turn them in you get 10 high gambling tokens..

costs you nothing to hunt and gather up the tokens...

[Ryori]

Widsith :: I see where you are coming from there. A Guild casino night could indeed be fun.

But the side effects of gambling pale compared to what the guild could be otherwise doing.

Now, to give a baseline, I play with good equipment and usually hunt high XP or salvage (or both) places. So to me, trophy XP is very unefficent use of time unless I can get a lot of it because of the different turn in locations. I can get more XP to my trade toon by pushing with my UA despite the loss of XP.

So while there are some upsides, we're talking hundreds of hours of toon-power to get a mansion if you are unfortunate to have started gromnie collection from scratch. When we got ours, I had 14 muled myself, some years old.

BTW: in my experience you loose about 60% of your money on the high stakes table. So the 500 million comes out to a 355 loss... plus the overhead of buying notes. I leave out that because some rewards give notes back so no overhead there.

Juzam: hehe... there is always a cost. -Time- Say you got 5 combos per buff (don't think they drop that well but..) . Thats still 200 hours. I could get a toon from 1 to about 110 in that time frame.

The key is that we're not looking at a handful of tokens to deal with. We're talking 100,000 tokens. Unless you have a huge guild -- players, not toons -- then this is a huge huge task.

[AC_Guy]

Ok factoring in the Cash rewards it works out to around 261,000,000 P for 20 Grommies

Thats just crazy....

I'm saying it would be nice if it where somehow easier to get them some other way.

[Widsith]

Ryori - That was my point, a gambling night would be fun. Although I am seeing your point now. 100,000 tokens is a lot. I went gambling with 10 MMDs to see how I did. I got 5 pack dolls and turned them in for 2 pyreal peas, 2 keys and a golden gromnie. Even if I had the same luck all along, 20 gromnies would still cost me 200 MMD's, something I can't afford.

[RAngor]

I have to agree that getting Golden Gromnies is a pain...

I recently used one of my toons to get Falcon Banners to get tokens for gambling...after about 20 hours of hunting, I had 30 completed banners...turned them in for 300 high stakes tokens and went gambling...

...end result --> 2 Golden Gromnies...

[DraconisUmbra]

Here's the results from a Casino trip I took recently, it might be helpful to consider it:

First off I bought a grand total of 1278 High Stakes tokens. This cost me a grand total of 63,900,000 pyreals. I made 6 trips, 5 were to gamble the tokens and one last trip to gamble the Pack Dolls I had won.

In sum I received a total of:

137 Large Mnems at 75Kxp each=10,275,000xp

151 Vapor Hearts at 15Kxp each=2,265,000xp plus 151 Treated Kits, 151 Great Mana Charges, 151 GoS, and 151 Pyreal Peas. The Mana Charges were sold in Glenden Wood for 4950 pyreals each for a total of 747,450 pyreals. The Pyreal Peas were sold in Glenden Wood for 45K pyreals each for a total of 6,795,000 pyreals. I kept the gems and am in the process of trying to trade the kits.

146 Seals at 5Kxp each=730,000xp plus 7,500py each=1,095,000 pyreals

139 Jungle Wasp Wings at 5kxp each=695,000xp plus 6Kpy each=834,000 pyreals

168 Olthoi Claws at 5kxp each=840,000xp plus 134 Olthoi Sword sold to vendor in Crag for a total of 180,900 pyreals. I got kits for the other 34 and am in the process of trying to trade them

165 Shen Keys at 7,500xp each=1,237,500xp plus a D note each=8,250,000 pyreals

162 Thighbones at 7,500xp each=1,215,000xp plus a D note each=8,100,000 pyreals

160 Large Sinews at 5Kxp each=800,000xp plus 5Kpy each=800,000 pyreals

And last but not least 50 Pack dolls which themselves translated into:

23 Pyreal Peas sold for 45Kpy each in Glenden Wood for a total of 1,035,000 pyreals

7 Golden Gromnies which I am in the process of selling for 3 Sings

And 20 Golden Keys which translated mostly into a fat lot of worthless ****. I salvaged all but a few newb weapons for some of my younger toons and a couple other items, some Cov gaunts, a couple low work weapons, nothing to brag about. From the salvage I kept 247 units of Gold, 20 units of Hog, 13 units of White Sapphire, 14 units of Imp Topaz, 62 units of Steel, 15 units of Sunstone, and 26 units of Iron. The rest I sold to the vendor in Baishi, and Ayan for one 100K bag, for a total of 916,890 pyreals.

So, I spent a total of 63,900,000 pyreals

and I recouped a total of

28,754,240 pyreals

therefore I spent a total of 35,145,760 pyreals in exchange for:

151 GoS, 185 Treated Kits, 7 Golden Gromnies, 247 units of Gold, 20 units of Hog, 13 units of White Sapphire, 14 units of Imp Topaz, 62 units of Steel, 15 units of Sunstone, 26 units of Iron, a few decent items, and last but not least a grand total of:

18,057,500xp

And yeah it took ALL day. Lol

And the xp was enough to take my newb mage from 26-40.

*****************************

As you can see I spent no where near 261 mil and got 1/3 of the GG's necessary for a mansion purchase. However, you should also be able to clearly see that I got twice as many pack dolls as I should have if there's only a 2% chance per token of getting them. Also I got a couple more gromnies than I should have if there's only a 10% chance per doll of getting them. I think the first is more siginificant than the second. I very much believe that the 2% chance is wrong. I think it's at least twice that and this is not the first time I've seen it. But maybe, and don't laugh here, maybe it's racial bias. No joke, I have also noticed in the past that whenever I take a toon to a Casino I always seem to do better if the toon I take is of the same race as the Casino owner. Probably nothing to it but it's interesting to think about. Anyway let's break down my results and compare them to the what Maggie's has.

According to Maggie's there's a:

2% chance for a pack doll, but 3.91% of my tokens yielded a doll
6% chance for a Jungle Phyntos Wasp Wing, but 10.88% of my tokens yielded a wing
10% chance for a Large Lugian Sinew, but 12.52% of my tokens yielded a sinew
10% chance for a Shendolain Key, but 12.91% of my tokens yielded a key
12% chance for a Seal, but 11.42% of my tokens yielded a seal
14% chance for a Dark Revenant Thighbone, but 12.68% of my tokens yielded thighbone
14% chance for Large Mnemosyne, but only 10.72% of my tokens yielded a Large Mnem
16% chance for an Olthoi Claw, but 13.15%, of my tokens yielded a claw
16% chance for a Vapor Golem Heart, but only 11.82% of my tokens yielded a heart.

Also according to Maggie's for each doll there's a:

5% chance for a Tiny Shard, but I got 0
10% chance for Golden Gromnie, but I got 7, 14%
40% chance for a Golden Key and I got 20, exactly 40%
45% chance for a Pyreal Pea and I got 23 exactly 46%

It comes down to this, I think the percentages that are listed on Maggie's site for the regular items are wrong. I think it breaks down more like this:

4% chance for a pack doll
10.5% chance for a Jungle Phyntos Wasp Wing
12.5% chance for a Large Lugian Sinew
13% chance for a Shendolain Key
12% chance for a Seal
12.5% chance for a Dark Revenant Thighbone
10.5% chance for Large Mnemosyne
13% chance for an Olthoi Claw
12% chance for a Vapor Golem Heart

The percentages for the other items are probably right though.